Rotary Engines
Djindivik
where the cylinders go around the pistons, sort of. Cheers RAY. Coventry UK.
Ken Day
David Larkin
run. Also there are a number of amateur engine constructors in the UK who have
demonstrated rotary engines at Old Warden and elsewhere.
Dave Larkin
Roger Forgues
had the opportunity to see operate in Rhinebeck, it was awesome.
http://www.replicaengines.com/
Regards
Roger
--
Multiplex Dealer
Fiber Optic Servo extensions( Pure Light)
http://www.aerografixs.com
"Ken Day" <kd1...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3aa1cc19...@news.intelos.net...
Ken Day
exactly what determines a rotary engine. Felix Wankel designed a
rotary engine which is referred to as a Wankel rotary.. OS sales a
model of it. A .30 that puts out a little over 1 HP. It is indeed a
rotary. A Wankel rotary. You are probably thinking of one of the older
"radial rotary" engines.
Ken Day.
Martin X. Moleski, SJ
>Roger, maybe you should go back and read up on a Rotary engine and see
>exactly what determines a rotary engine.
If you take the definition used by the original poster--"where the
cylinders go around the pistons"--you will see that the Wankel
does not match what the person is looking for. He wants the
engine widely used by both sides in WWI, in which the prop
is attached to the crankcase and the whole crankcase spins.
That is not how the Wankel "rotary" works; in a Wankel,
the crankcase is stationary and the prop is attached to the
crankshaft. The Wankel is called a "rotary", for lack of a
better word, because the pistons rotate instead of
reciprocating. As one web site says, the rotors rotate
continuously in a single direction. They do not jerk
backwards and forwards" (http://www.monito.com/wankel/rce.html).
The site concludes: "The rotary combustion engine must not be confused
with "rotary" aircraft engines which are piston cylinders
arranged in a circle. The whole engine rotates. They came into vogue
in the first World War. "
I believe that someone else already posted the URL for a
model of the WWI Gnome rotary engine:
http://www.replicaengines.com/products/gnome.htm
The first time I saw a rotary engine in a museum (Curtiss,
on Keuka Lake), I thought that the sign had to be wrong.
I didn't believe that such engines existed until I had seen
many sources confirming how they worked.
Marty
Pé Reivers
Some out of many engine definitions.
The <Wankel> is a single rotary piston (with multiple, radially arranged
combustion pockets) engine with a stationary housing which has a single
combustion chamber.
<Rotary engines> are those engines, which have the crankshaft fitted to the
fire wall! The prop and cylinders (in radial fashion) are fastened to the
housing, which rotates. It is the only engine with radial pistons and a
rotating housing.
A <radial engine> has a rotating crankshaft and stationary housing, with the
pistons arranged in a radial fashion.
Confusing? Not to me!
--
Pé, from Arcen, south-east Netherlands
http://home.planet.nl/~preivers
Please remove the not.this. to reply my messages
"Ken Day" <kd1...@aol.com> schreef in bericht
news:3aa1f1f7...@news.intelos.net...
James D Jones
RCV Engines makes both .60 and 1.20 cu. in. engines where the prop is
attached to the top of the cylinder. The cylinder rotation serves to act as
the valves. It's a four-stroke design with the cylinder rotating at half the
speed of the crankshaft. The .60 size engine swings a 16X10 prop.
Jim - AMA 501383
Ken Day
seen that what you were looking for was in fact an early aircraft
engine that rotated around the crankshaft.Just noticed the "rotary"
part. This engine has been called a "radial rotary" because it looked
like a typical radial engine and rotated around it's crankshaft. It
was called a Gnome I believe.
I Built a plastic model of it years ago. The kit was made by a company
called "Hasagawa". Made a real neat conversation piece.
The Wankel is a rotary engine...not because of lack of a better word,
but because it meets the criteria. There are many different rotary
engines out there. Mazda put out some in their automobiles.There are
all sorts of applications and designs. I really don't know a whole lot
about the early "rotating" aircraft engine, but I don't think it
really falls into the category of "rotary internal combustion engine"
Someone out there with a good understanding of rotary engines
...Enlighten me please.
Thanks
Ke Day
On 03 Mar 2001 09:16:03 GMT, djin...@aol.com (Djindivik) wrote:
Martin X. Moleski, SJ
visit to Old Rhinebeck last fall, where they have at least a couple
of rotary engines flying:
-- The cooling problem was also a metallurgical problem. Later
alloys were able to dissipate heat better than what was available
when the rotaries were designed.
-- The oil system is "total loss." The engines constantly lose
oil through the exhaust system. The castor oil gunks up the engines
and the airframes, just like it does on our planes today. The
pilots of rotary aircraft were continually ingesting castor oil
from the airstream, which produced a strong laxitive effect.
Rumor has it that some pilots had to land wherever they
could to answer nature's call.
-- Later rotary engines had a magneto system that could
provide more options than just on-off. In a column about
Rhinebeck last year, one of the writers for Flying compared
the system to FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control).
(I think the author was Peter Garrison.)
-- The cooling/oiling system on the rotaries works so well that
the folks at Old Rhinebeck say the pistons and cylinder
will last forever, given regular 100-hour cleanups.
-- There really is no way for modelers to duplicate the on-off
bark/growl of the rotary engine using reciprocaing engines.
I guess that's why someone bit the bullet and designed the
model rotary engine.
Marty
On Sun, 4 Mar 2001 10:37:18 -0000, "Chris Hinds"
<chri...@hindsfam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Rotary engines were used by contemporary World War One fighters like the
>Sopwith Pup & Sopwith Camel. The Germans also used rotaries too. The
>reason for the rotary engine was a simply a solution to the cooling problem.
>Back in the early 1900s air speeds were extremely low. The engines of fixed
>radial form were rapidly overheating in the front of the aircraft.
>Engineers decided to reverse the normal operation (moving pistons, fixed
>crankcase) to having a fixed crankshaft and have the cylinders themselves
>revolve. With the whole engine moving the cooling problem was solved. The
>rotary engines were spinning at about 1200rpm and so there was little danger
>of problems of bits 'flying' off. The only problem was with 900lbs of
>engine and propeller rotating there was a strong gyroscopic action. This
>made the Sopwith Camel have a slow turn to the left (opposing the engine
>torque) but a lightening fast right turn (with the engine torque). Rotary
>engines have a unique exhaust note. There was no throttle. Air and Fuel
>being regulated by levers operated by the pilot. The mixture was set for
>best RPM and then a blip switch used to cut the ignition to slow the plane
>down. By blipping the ignition the pilot could reduce the power. The
>engine was lubricated by Castor Oil in much the same way as our model
>engines.
>
>I have missed a little of the operation but hopefully you get the idea :)
>
>Regards
>
>
>Chris
>
Brian Hampton
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote:
> -- There really is no way for modelers to duplicate the on-off
> bark/growl of the rotary engine using reciprocaing engines.
> I guess that's why someone bit the bullet and designed the
> model rotary engine.
The original Wankel rotary (actually epitrochoidal) was designed by Felix Wankel
and first used in the NSU Ro80 cars before being taken up by Mazda who used it in
several models. OS were granted the license to build Wankel engines but limited
to normal model engine sizes.
Brian Hampton
Adelaide, South Oz
Martin X. Moleski, SJ
Brian,
I was referring to the model of the Gnome rotary engine (WWI-type).
See it here:
http://www.replicaengines.com/products/gnome.htm
This is a different kettle of fish from the Wankel/OS rotary.
Marty
Tom Johnson
<snip>
Engineers decided to reverse the normal operation (moving pistons,
fixed
crankcase) to having a fixed crankshaft and have the cylinders
themselves
revolve. With the whole engine moving the cooling problem was solved.
====================================
Let me make a minor point. Engineers might have realized the advantage
of using an exsisting design, not necessarily deciding to reverse the
piston/crankcase arrangement all by themselves.
I read somewhere recently that the rotary engine principle was
invented here in the U.S. by F.O. Farwell in 1896. Originally the
intended design was as a motorcycle/automotive engine, the engine was
centered in the rear wheel and the whole mess revolved around
together. The designer could not find a company here to manufacture
it, as it was felt the engine was not practical for this use. Hoping
to find a builder, he took the design to Paris where it eventually
ended up as the Gnome aircraft engine. If I recall correctly, the
French builders reworked the engine, much improved over the original
design before it found it's way onto an airframe.
Tom Johnson
Rie Janssen
Farman 22 from 1915.
There was in Holland a man who build such a engine a few years ago.
Unfortunately he died a couple of years ago. It was Wim van den Hoek.
The engine was static running....magnificent! I saw it. It was a
9-cilindre Gnome or Le Rhone.
I need a 7-cilindre Gnome scale 1 to 5.
Greetings from Holland,
Rie Janssen
Martin X. Moleski, SJ
>I need a 7-cilindre Gnome scale 1 to 5.
You can try contacting the folks at
http://www.replicaengines.com/products/gnome.htm
Maybe they'll build one for you.
Marty
Prop...@webtv.net
rotary engine built by my friend Ray Williams. It is approximately 27
cubic inches in displacement. Although you can see a 30"x30" prop in a
still photo, the dyno readings are now being taken using a 36"x22"
Zinger prop. Max RPM to date is near 3000, thrust=58lbs and torque=75
ft lbs. Ray is still playing with cams and ignition timing for max
horsepower. He is also well along with the airplane. Click on the
photos to enlarge. They are at :
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=28160&a=11919204&f=0
Martin X. Moleski, SJ
I like the needle valve/backplate combination in the second
photo. Looks like it was stolen from an LA 40. I'm thinking
of doing something like that to regulate a smoke system.
Marty
Prop...@webtv.net
the Gnome. We set up the stand, dyno and ran the engine the same day it
arrived here in South Florida so the FX needle valve idea was kind of a
hurry up after thought.
.........................................................
Martin X. Moleski, SJ wrote:
Martin X. Moleski, SJ
>That needle valve/backplate was from a 46FX and is holding up well on
>the Gnome. We set up the stand, dyno and ran the engine the same day it
>arrived here in South Florida so the FX needle valve idea was kind of a
>hurry up after thought.
Well, that explains it.
It really didn't seem to be in keeping with the quality of the
workmanship on the Gnome. ;o)
But I do plan to buy a remote needle valve for my
smoke system, sans backplate...
Marty