Why I quit R.C.
luth...@hotmail.com
I've been following the discussion of people quitting RC with some interest.
I am one of those fellows that appear to have quit. I flew actively at a
field, was a member of a club, AMA for 5 years or so, but now, for all
practical purposes, no one sees me and probably thinks I've quit. I've just
gone underground, build a plane now and again, and go and fly it out on some
farm road etc. I still like RC and do it a bit, but the reason I became
inactive as far as clubs etc. are many. After the initial excitement wore off
and I became fairly competent, I got tired of going to club meetings because
meetings seemed more like hour long arguments over nit picky things by a few
individuals, what some here have referred to as the old boy network. I
dropped AMA membership when SFA came out, and with alll the brouhahaa over
insurances I discovered my own home insurance covered me, and the big
insurance flap made me lose confidence in the specialized insurances offered.
I flew at a public field for a few years, but the field became increasingly
"improved" with more and more regualtions, higher fees, constant changes that
I couldn't keep up with etc., but more than that, I just got tired of people
smoking around me, running engines with no mufflers, and being channel hogs,
rarely relinquishing a channel. In fact, I bought a new radio to get off of
one channel that was quite busy, when I showed up with my new channel one of
the old boys discovered it was on what he called "his" channel, loudly telling
me so in mock seriousness, but in truth I could barely get a flight in after
that because he did in fact think he owned the channel for the most part, by
tradition, and since he is a regular and constant flyer, and I didn't care to
buy any more radios, I took my flying to the backroads, developments, and
landfills, which is where I fly today. So I am one of, perhaps, many, that
just fly when occasion offers, by the side of the road, etc. Yes, its a
hassle, occasionally dodging curious spectators who stop their car in your
landing spot, and ask you questions about your plane, shouted from the car
window while you hope your fuel will hold out until they move on so you can
land, etc., but it is more fun than all of the hassle I had flying in
organized groups, clubs, and fields. And a note on the cost, to diehards it
seems like nothing, but, one year, just for curiosities sake, when I was
pretty active, I threw all the receipts related to the hobby in a drawer and
totaled them at the end of the year. Needless to say, I swore I would never
do that again and now make sure I throw them away promptly. Yes, perhaps it
was cheaper than buying a new snowmobile, travel trailer, RV, or some of the
other mens toys that are commonly joked about, you know," the difference
between men and boys is the prices of their toys "stuff, but not much!
Now I intend to mess about with models the rest of my life, but just thought I
would post a few of my reasons as to why I joined the "disappeared."-Larry
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Stephen
Excellent post. Larry.
I have heard of a few stories similar to this by a few people at the
club field. Many of the same reasons. There are many different hassles from
some people who think they know everything, inconsiderate or inappropriate
behavior, problems with frequency availability, chatterboxes that never
quite, name your poison.
I fly at a club site, but usually only during the weekdays. There are few,
if any people there. All channels are available. You can practice touch and
goes until the landing gear gives out. Nobody complains of the helicopter
being 'inappropriate', and so on.
When I go to the club on a weekend, its packed. At least 20 planes, 15
pilots. I usually go to chat, and not so much to fly. If I didn't have the
luxury of flying midweek, I would probably be 'off road' like you for the
most part. Less hassles, more flying.
Glad you're still here, even though you're gone :-)
Cheers,
Stephen
Dave Blackburn
Amen!
Dave
luth...@hotmail.com wrote in message <6id0e7$tkp$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>I've been following the discussion of people quitting RC with some
interest.
>I am one of those fellows that appear to have quit. I flew actively at a
>snip<
Guy Fuller
Gee Larry seems you and I did most of the same thing. My biggest thing
was when the club president did not fly at the field for over a year.
Then whe elections came up he called everyone an hour or two before the
meeting and told them to vote for him if they wanted to still have a
club. He was elected again. Next, he appointed a "Gumby" as field safty
officer. One of his passive followers who had only flown R/C about 6
months. The jerk had the nerve to tell me that he HAD to test fly my
new plane and procceded to grab the transmitter out of my hands. With
the good old boys hanging by his side, my attack on him left them stund
to put it mildly. I packed up and have never returned except to see old
friends once in awhile
Now, after four years all of the OLD BOYZ have left the hobby or died
and as far as the prez. he went his seperate way. The club has returned
to normal and is attracting new members again.
I still fly off my own desert dry lake bed where know one bothers me
except for an occassional lizard or coyote and will probably never go
back to the club.
Guy Fuller
StarCad Plans
Jagdwaffe
>field safty officer
>The jerk had the nerve to tell me that he HAD to test fly my
>new plane and procceded to grab the transmitter out of my hands.
I would flip out if the club safety officer even suggested he had to fly my
plane before I was allowed to. Even if it was a beat up Arf trainer and he had
never seen me before. You were in a very bad club if this was a rule.
________________________________________________________________________
Fliegen ist nicht der größte Thrill, Landung ist.
Vince
Guy Fuller wrote:
The jerk had the nerve to tell me that he HAD to test fly my
> the good old boys hanging by his side, my attack on him left them stund
> to put it mildly. I packed up and have never returned except to see old
> friends once in awhile
> Guy Fuller
> StarCad Plans
Good for you Guy, I don't know if I would have been that diplomatic
about it.
Vince
AMA 266036
donald reynolds
Wow, sorry to hear your story. I am lucky, small club, nice people. This is one
of the reasons I like RC. Hope someday you find a good group of folks to share
the hobby with. The group I'm involved with are helpful and fun. We don't have
many complainers.
Good luck and good flying.
Don.
luth...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I've been following the discussion of people quitting RC with some interest.
> I am one of those fellows that appear to have quit. I flew actively at a
Bill Haley
>Then whe elections came up he called everyone an hour or two before the
>meeting and told them to vote for him if they wanted to still have a
>club. He was elected again. Next, he appointed a "Gumby" as field safty
>officer. One of his passive followers who had only flown R/C about 6
>months. The jerk had the nerve to tell me that he HAD to test fly my
>new plane and procceded to grab the transmitter out of my hands. With
>the good old boys hanging by his side, my attack.....
You know, there are ALWAYS two sides to every story, with the truth lieing
somewhere in the middle. I'd like to see what the club pres and "the good ol'
boys" had to say about you...............
Pete Kerezman
I quit lots of times, for a lot of reasons, but here i am - again.
Too late to stop now.
Texas Pete
Pete Kerezman (pete...@aol.com)
Kingsville, Texas AMA 59376
Guy Fuller
This is true Bill. The ex-club president lives about 200 feet from me.
We were very good friends but I guess I ticked him off for some reason
that has yet to be explained to me. He flys only with a certian few
people now in another town about 50 miles from Tucson.
After he was elected president of the club he flew at the club field
only one time as the president again and that was at a contest that he
was the CD for. The next year he wasn't re-elected and all the people
he pushed into offices of the club were defeated and replaced. Safty
officer became a 17 year old that had been flying R/C since he could
walk ( couldn't talk much, just walk then ). It still took about two
years for the members of the club to turn things around again and
everone could have fun.
I've been asked several times to return but I think I'll stay where I'm
at.
--
Parrow
Same here. Nice little club where everyone gets along. We keep the same
officials for many years. They do their job and and no one else is jealous
or thinks they can do it better. When a new position comes up, we always
find somebody to fill it, and everybody is happy. As far as channel rights
go,... at the end of each year we put channel usage charts in the club
newsletter - that way people know which ones are used most and avoid them
when buying new radios. Club rules - just think safe and try your best to
get along and avoid accidents (and use a muffler on anything above a .051).
We even love the great 3D shows our heli pilot puts on for us. (He flys a
Bergen gasser and another glo just like it and everyone stops what their
doing to watch the show). Come visit us sometime....
Eric
Stillwater, OK
donald reynolds wrote in message <354A3ED9...@accucomm.net>...
Howard McCollister
luth...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I've been following the discussion of people quitting RC with some interest.
-snipped-
> Now I intend to mess about with models the rest of my life, but just thought I
> would post a few of my reasons as to why I joined the "disappeared."-Larry
>
Good post. I've belonged to 6 clubs in the 25 years I've been doing
this, and I've seen exactly what Larry describes many times. The petty
politics of the these clubs can get ridiculous. In my opinion, the AMA
and to a lesser extent SFA, foster this kind of petty bullshit. I think
that the AMA is a political bullring exactly like Larry's ex-club, but
on a much bigger scale. The many post here about the AMA convinces me of
that.
For the last few years, I've flown with a group of 8-10 guys at a local
sod farm. We chartered our "club" with SFA as a courtesy to the
landowners for the insurance. We all get along, no bickering, no channel
hogging. Our dues are $5 per year (to send the landowner and his wife
out to dinner once a year). We have no meetings. We have no safety
officer. We probably have a president, but I'm not sure who it is-maybe
it's me. We have only 2 rules: 1) have fun. 2) Be safe. Everyone in
our group has been flying long enough to know how to be safe. It is the
most relaxed RC flying I've done in 25 years.
It convinces me that clubs and their petty politics are the main reason
people quit RC.
H McCollister
AMA614409
Vince
Howard McCollister wrote:
> It convinces me that clubs and their petty politics are the main reason
> people quit RC.
>
> H McCollister
> AMA614409
I agree Howard, I only wish I were in your position.
Vince
AMA 266036
DMorris512
Good post Larry. I have not yet joined the local club. I had anticipated some
of the problems you mentioned, but not near all. I get their news letter and
they have now decided to encourage new members by charging them a $200 dollar
fee for new runway construction. I think I will continue as you have and
decline their offer. Thanks for reminding me I do not need more insurance or
the AMA.
Dan
Tuckerwj
This is one of the best threads this SIG has had... The last time I truly
enjoyed the 'club' aspect of this hobby (the building and flying of model
aircraft was instrumental in any success I've measured as an adult) was as a
fledgling member of the AMPS MAC (Perrine, FL) back in the 60's... this isn't a
'I miss the old days stuff' trip down memory lane; in those days, many RC
flights became free-flights. Your buddies pitched in when a servo only worked
well in one direction, they celebrated with you when you finally greased one in
intacto... Then I grew up, went off to fight the war, came back, got married
and respectable, joined the corporate world with it's associated stresses...
and found the need for model airplanes again. In re-entering the hobby, I found
that I was blessed with the ability to build some pretty nice looking airplanes
and am able to fly reasonably well. Business moves me around a lot, and one
would hope that the local flying clubs would offer a sense of comonality to a
geographic new-comer. Being somewhat of an introvert (fact: most modelers are)
I seem to have been able to attract the afore mentioned good-old-boy network
over to my part of the pits and have been able to offend every one of them (I
swear, I don't try to do it!) to the point where I now choose to take my
activities to wherever I can find some room for the large scale aerobatic
airplanes I fly. Technically, the hobby had matured light-years when I
re-entered it. The social aspect, I guess, is more than satisfying fore those
that know how to navigate it and build on what it offers. I now reside in
beautiful Denver (I think I might stay here) and would be interested in hearing
from those who'd participate in a 'virtual' RC club... no dues, no rules
(thinking people don't need them) and be satisfied in discovering what this
great hobby offers ourselves and our (collectively) kids. Sorry to ramble on...
Cain Fly
I certainly feel sorry for most of you that are responding here. The "Club" is
my social life for the most part, or at least the BEST part of the social
scene. It is so easy to get along when you wish to and you are willing to PULL
your load PLUS 100% additional, yet be firm when so needed.
I do not need any modeling insurance as my personal life dictates very adequate
umbrella insurance, however I want that other Dum-Dum to also have insurance to
cover his damage TO ME!! Therefore AMA membership in the Club is mandated as
SFA is nothing but a bunch of commercial BS that may or may not be effective at
any given time. The friendship and comraderie of the Club far outweighs the
pleasure of simply flying a toy in the sky. Hell, I've done that one way or
another for near 50 years
including 41 years of the 1 to 1 scale, which I don't give a damn about and
don't do anymore. I belong to a very progressive Club, Jetero RC, Humble, TX
and spent many years in the SkyLarks RC near Chicago, IL. It too was -and still
is - a very progressive club. Being a Club Member is so much better than
playing on a Ball Team - you need not wait for the Coach to send you in - You
can get off your Lazy Ass and get into the Game. That is where the real action
is. Of course when you are too timid and immature to take the heat, then get
the Hell out of the Kitchen.
Horrace Cain, AMA 539 CD/Ldr Mbr.
George Hostler
Model flying sites are people systems. Any time people are
involved, there are always potential for problems. I've had
both good experiences and bad ones. Fortunately, the bad
ones were isolated incidences.
Particularly good ones: The modelers at the public flying
field on the windward side of the Pali on Oahu in Hawaii
were a good lot as I recall from 1981. They were courteous,
did flying there while in college. The same too for the
modelers at a site near the petroleum storage fields just
east of Little Rock, Arkansas, 1983. One of the retirees
encouraged new flyers to come, introduced others, encouraged
people to join the club, help temper your thoughts around
the more gruff ones. He and a few others made me feel at
home.
Bad ones: 1973, Ford Island, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. I was
then a Spec. 4 in the Army. The previous weekend I had been
out there and had a blast with another crowd and my Roaring
20. Came out there with my Jr. Falcon the next Sunday. A
retiree proceeded to chew me out for flying there. He
thought I was interfering with his flight plan. My plane
needed some trimming, but there was penty of air space,
there were only several flying at the time. I was fairly
new. I left with the feeling that he thought he had more
right to be there than I. Funny, I probably had more right
to be there than he, I was on active duty and he wasn't, it
was a military base and not an exclusive club. 1982,
Whittier Narrows Park, Southern California. My first
encounter with the flight line group started off with one
unfriendly person who made unkind comments about my plane.
Things proceeded to worse, an unfriendly and impatient lot,
was the first and last time I flew there.
There are some individuals who seem to lack adult maturity
and patience to bear with others. In a group situation,
there is give and take, for a sense of orderliness and
safety. We are here to have fun, that's what the hobby is
for. Life is too short to bear with idiots. During times
of bad experiences, I sought out a quiet empty field and did
my flying, and kept happy.
luth...@hotmail.com wrote in message
<6id0e7$tkp$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>I've been following the discussion of people quitting RC
with some interest. I am one of those fellows that appear
to have quit. I flew actively at a field, was a member of a
club, AMA for 5 years or so, but now, for all practical
purposes, no one sees me and probably thinks I've quit.
I've just gone underground, build a plane now and again, and
go and fly it out on some farm road etc. I still like RC and
do it a bit, but the reason I became inactive as far as
clubs etc. are many. After the initial excitement wore off
and I became fairly competent, I got tired of going to club
meetings because meetings seemed more like hour long
arguments over nit picky things by a few individuals,
<SNIP!>
BBrastad
After reading all the posts about rotten clubs and the jerks that make them
that way, I am so grateful for my club that I think that I am going out there
tomorrow and kiss the runway. We all get along, nobody hogs channels, we
welcome newbies and help them learn to fly. We had so many people turn out for
our Spring Cleanup, we were all done by noon. What's our secret? I don't
really know, but maybe it is because we really love to fly and have no stomach
for politics or rules. I wish all clubs could be that way.
Patrick Willis
I have to say that I am really shocked to learn that you gentlemen have
had experiences like that in those flying clubs. A safety officer who
says HE flies your plane before you do?
Apparently the club that I belong to now, Eugene R/C Aerobats in Oregon,
used to be dominated by pattern pilots who frowned upon beginners and
anyone without a pattern plane. Since then, most of them have left and
allowed a large group of beginners and intermediates to join the club.
The guys out there are eager to help beginners and offer advice and
training. Helicopters are no problem, if fact we all find them pretty
interesting and entertaining to watch.
Perhaps clubs just go through cycles where the bad seeds take over and
later die out, eh?
Still, it's kind of disheartening to hear stories like that. I have
never heard of anything like it before this, so now I'm worried!
--
><> ><> ><> http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~patrickw <>< <>< <><
Kevin Kline
Once again Horace you have demonstrated the "My way is right because I
do it" attitude that has turned so many of us away from the club scene.
People are different yet you and many in the Good Ol' Boy class seem
intent on attracting only your kind with the attitude that the rest are
some kind of sub human. Go and have you club scene Horace. I may not
fly as often as you but I'll wager I smile a whole lot more over it than
you do.
K. Kline
Kevin Kline
Ditto!
I was the President of a club that was fighting to keep its flying
site. The club had done nothing wrong, just proposed development. In
the course of this fight though we were asked by the various powers that
be what benifit we had been for the community? It was at this point
that I realized the community as a rule was clueless about us and the
hobby. Enter the need for PR. So I did all the preliminary footwork to
set up a mall show. Could we do it, when, etc, etc. When I proposed
the idea to the club I received ZERO support. They didn't want to help
themselves! This is just one example. When elections came around I
refused to run again (yes I was asked). Once the new prez was in office
I resigned and have been happily renegading ever since. And I have been
asked to come back several times by several people.
K. Kline
Kevin Kline
Ideally every club should have two flields or flightlines. One for the
sunday flier types and beginners and one for those wishing to practice
the serious side of the hobby. Of course this would mean that one of
the groups would miss seeing some great crashes! :)
K. Kline
Kevin Kline
Howard McCollister wrote:
>
> luth...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I've been following the discussion of people quitting RC with some interest.
>
>
> > Now I intend to mess about with models the rest of my life, but just thought I
> > would post a few of my reasons as to why I joined the "disappeared."-Larry
> >
>
> Good post. I've belonged to 6 clubs in the 25 years I've been doing
> this, and I've seen exactly what Larry describes many times. The petty
> politics of the these clubs can get ridiculous. In my opinion, the AMA
> and to a lesser extent SFA, foster this kind of petty bullshit. I think
> that the AMA is a political bullring exactly like Larry's ex-club, but
> on a much bigger scale. The many post here about the AMA convinces me of
> that.
>
> For the last few years, I've flown with a group of 8-10 guys at a local
> sod farm. We chartered our "club" with SFA as a courtesy to the
> landowners for the insurance. We all get along, no bickering, no channel
> hogging. Our dues are $5 per year (to send the landowner and his wife
> out to dinner once a year). We have no meetings. We have no safety
> officer. We probably have a president, but I'm not sure who it is-maybe
> it's me. We have only 2 rules: 1) have fun. 2) Be safe. Everyone in
> our group has been flying long enough to know how to be safe. It is the
> most relaxed RC flying I've done in 25 years.
>
> people quit RC.
>
> H McCollister
> AMA614409
Can I come fly with you guys?
K. Kline
Kevin Kline
You Know? Someone should pack up this entire thread and ship it off the
the AMA and SFA with a short note of explanation of how it came about.
Who knows what it might generate but the fact is, there are a great many
modelers out here who no longer cater to the powers that be.
K. Kline
Stephen wrote:
>
> Excellent post. Larry.
>
> I have heard of a few stories similar to this by a few people at the
> club field. Many of the same reasons. There are many different hassles from
> some people who think they know everything, inconsiderate or inappropriate
> behavior, problems with frequency availability, chatterboxes that never
> quite, name your poison.
>
> I fly at a club site, but usually only during the weekdays. There are few,
> if any people there. All channels are available. You can practice touch and
> goes until the landing gear gives out. Nobody complains of the helicopter
> being 'inappropriate', and so on.
>
> When I go to the club on a weekend, its packed. At least 20 planes, 15
> pilots. I usually go to chat, and not so much to fly. If I didn't have the
> luxury of flying midweek, I would probably be 'off road' like you for the
> most part. Less hassles, more flying.
>
> Glad you're still here, even though you're gone :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stephen
>
> luth...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >I've been following the discussion of people quitting RC with some interest.
> >I am one of those fellows that appear to have quit. I flew actively at a
> >field, was a member of a club, AMA for 5 years or so, but now, for all
> >practical purposes, no one sees me and probably thinks I've quit. I've just
> >gone underground, build a plane now and again, and go and fly it out on some
> >farm road etc. I still like RC and do it a bit, but the reason I became
> >inactive as far as clubs etc. are many. After the initial excitement wore off
> >and I became fairly competent, I got tired of going to club meetings because
> >meetings seemed more like hour long arguments over nit picky things by a few
> >Now I intend to mess about with models the rest of my life, but just thought I
> >would post a few of my reasons as to why I joined the "disappeared."-Larry
> >
Guy Fuller
Well Horrace, it is exactly that kind of attitude that forces people
like myself and others to stay away. I think Red refers to this as the
"Know-it-all" attitude. I have flown for almost 35 years now including
the "real-thing". Heck, I don't really need you to wobble over to check
out my new model, I've already did that.
Really now, if the club thing is yours, by all means more power to ya!
But please, understand that maybe there are those in your club that may
resent your presents and have a few ideasof there own. Sure, your advice
to others is respected and I respect that but why push it on others when
not asked.
Please don't think I'm slaming you as I'm not, just trying to let you
know how others might preceive you in another way.
Guy Fuller
--
Bookmark this site for the fantastic resource it is.
+++ StarCad Plans +++
Jerry Brian
I used to fly in a group in the San Fransisco bay area. Populated area,
too far to drive to clubs. So we fly off a street where development is
closing in. Police there often with radar guns, giving us speed
readings. A very positive Newspaper article came out on us calling us
"Bootleggers". Nice photos.
Never had a problem at a real Club there.
(I moved to less populated town.)
Jerry
Cain Fly
> Go and have you club scene Horace. I may not<BR>
>fly as often as you but I'll wager I smile a whole lot more over it than<BR>
>you do.<BR>
Then, young Kevin, you are laughing yourself silly - Guess that is what is
wrong with the both of us - we laugh too much.
Horrace
Cain Fly
>there are those in your club that may<BR>
>resent your presents and have a few ideasof there own. Sure, your advice<BR>
>to others is respected and I respect that but why push it on others when<BR>
>not asked.<BR>
><BR>
In a progressive club, ALL ideas are welcome. As in a contest, only ONE
prevails, and it is very rarely mine. The Club is the thing - no individual is
the one and only. The club members that only wish to have a beautiful place to
fly and provide no effort to assist in providing such are the ones that whine
the most. The guy that is always volunteering to get the job done is the one
that is quickly dubbed a "good-ol-boy" by the whiners.
No, I don't listen to the whiners very much. I listen to those that produce. I
support their efforts and when the CLUB decides on a course of action, I
suuport that action, regardless of my own specific desires.
Of course for some reason that the whiners can't understand, progressive clubs
most always have very nice flying facilities.
Come and visit Jetero. For an introduction visit the AMA Dist. VIII Web - go
through AMA web as I don't have the address in front of me. Check Sandy's
Travels - Houston
Horrace Cain
Kevin Kline
I spent a few weeks in the Bay area a couple of years ago. I was
impressed at the number of flying sites identified on a map I picked up
in a hobby shop. Twenty Six in all if memory serves. We'd have to
include the entire states of Virginia and Maryland to show that many for
the so called Greater DC area.
K. Kline
Guy Fuller
Horrace, I don't think you preceived my point. What I refer to is some
newbie or the field "know-it-all" coming over to me and telling me that
because I have the receiver switch is in the off position facing forward
it will, "crash my plane", because that is why his plane crashed. How
about, "Your nose gear is two long, see how the airplane sits with its
tail slightly down. It should be level". And this one, "Your ailerons
appear to both be slightly down in netural position. Your gonna' crash
that new plane."
Give me a break, I may have a reason for doing it that way.
Howard McCollister
Kevin Kline wrote:
> Can I come fly with you guys?
>
Love to have you, Kevin. Bring some bratwurst if you come. We fire up
the grill at about noon. Lots of hot dogs and chicken breasts, but
nobody ever brings bratwurst....
Howard McCollister
George Hostler
Thanks for expressing your experiences with your club.
I've experienced situations where PR helps. Sometimes at a
club field, its our responsibility to put our feet forward,
just like the retired gentleman at the Little Rock field. A
little welcoming spirit and kindness go a long way toward
making a positive impression to new comers and outsiders, as
well as for the members.
Best explanation is a quote from 2,000 years ago regarding
the effects of selfishness: "For where jealousy and selfish
ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing."
James 3:16.
I'd say the secret to your club is the ability for others to
look out for each other respectfully in a collective way,
and share!
regards,
George
BBrastad wrote in message
<199805020814...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
Guy Fuller
Ya know Gerald you have been in this group for awhile now and I can't
beleive what you just flung at this person - the same crap he is trying
to get away from. This was a friendly thread. I remember several months
ago when several people told you to shut up. You survived and you're
still here. So, why are you attacking this thred?
Your reply is exactly one of the reasons I left "The Club".
Vince
Guy Fuller wrote:
>
> Ya know Gerald you have been in this group for awhile now and I can't
> beleive what you just flung at this person - the same crap he is trying
> to get away from. This was a friendly thread. I remember several months
> ago when several people told you to shut up. You survived and you're
> still here. So, why are you attacking this thred?
>
> Your reply is exactly one of the reasons I left "The Club".
> --
Guy, my thought is that this nonsense with the Ara thread has got
everyone in a fighting mood, it's been almost a year since there was
some real nasty post, looks like it's about to start up again.
Vince
AMA 266036
Howard McCollister
Stephen wrote:
> So, how do I join? And do you have any ideas on how to convince my wife
> to move?
>
We'd be glad to have you. We're in central Minnesota. We really enjoy
flying for the two weeks in the summer when we don't have snow on the
ground.
Nah...just kidding. I think our average temperature was higher than
Florida's this el Nino year. I KNOW that South Carolina got more snow.
H McCollister
Gerald43
>meetings seemed more like hour long arguments over nit picky things by a few
>individuals
Poor leadership in the meetings. . .
> I discovered my own home insurance covered me
Are you sure, it usually doesn't. . .
>smoking around me,
Hey, its outdoors, it's a free country you know. . .
>Yes, its a
>hassle, occasionally dodging curious spectators who stop their car in your
>landing spot,
YOUR landing spot? What makes you think it's yours? The auto has the right of
way on a public road or even open field. Dodging spectators? I hope you're as
good a pilot as you think you are. Remember, anything can happen to that plane
at any time. It's not exactly safe to fly over population or buildings.
> the hassle I had flying in
>organized groups, clubs, and fields.
No, son, from your description, you've NEVER flown at an ORGANIZED field or
with an ORGANIZED club. No mufflers, channel hogs, and your other complaints
could have easily been handled by a club with strong leadership and a good set
of field rules. Our club has been chartered over 25 years at the same field,
and in that time, I know of only 5 people who were so dissatisfied with our
club that they went elsewhere. Some did take memberships in new clubs that
sprang up, but they kept their membership with us.
>And a note on the cost, to diehards it
>seems like nothing
No one ever said R/C was a cheap hobby. You can put as much or as little into
it as you wish, and get out of it as much or as little as you wish, too.
Frankly, you sound like someone who got into R/C and found they didn't like
some aspects of it, and got a severe case of the ass with some other people at
the field, and decided to blame the whole sport and all R/C'ers as a group for
your dissatisfaction. By the way, are YOU blameless in all the accusatory
statements you make?
You just keep right on flying out of back roads and trespassing on private
property to fly. When you hit something or someone, or get run off by the
cops, thanks for giving R/C a big black eye in the sight of the general public.
This post may not be to the liking of some others, but that's my story and I'm
sticking to it. I never have been shy about saying what I think.
Gera...@aol.com
"Batman"
Jack A. Hulbert
DMorris512 <dmorr...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199805020031...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Don't forget that the AMA also supports our hobby in Washington DC where
the powers that be would love to sell our frequencies to other, more
profitable ventures. Or shut down our flying fields for safety reasons! So
I would not blow off the AMA just because you think the insurance is
redundant.
--
--
Jack A. Hulbert
Hulbert Design, inc.
AMA 172987
E-Mail jacbe...@iserv.net
Remove 9248 for e mail
Page: http://www.iserv.net/~jacbert
9248 Kilo, you're cleared to land, Good Luck ! (crunch)
>
Stephen
Howard McCollister <hm...@uslink.net> wrote:
>luth...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I've been following the discussion of people quitting RC with some interest.
>
>-snipped-
>
>> Now I intend to mess about with models the rest of my life, but just thought I
>> would post a few of my reasons as to why I joined the "disappeared."-Larry
>>
>
>Good post. I've belonged to 6 clubs in the 25 years I've been doing
>this, and I've seen exactly what Larry describes many times. The petty
>politics of the these clubs can get ridiculous. In my opinion, the AMA
>and to a lesser extent SFA, foster this kind of petty bullshit. I think
>that the AMA is a political bullring exactly like Larry's ex-club, but
>on a much bigger scale. The many post here about the AMA convinces me of
>that.
>
>For the last few years, I've flown with a group of 8-10 guys at a local
>sod farm. We chartered our "club" with SFA as a courtesy to the
>landowners for the insurance. We all get along, no bickering, no channel
>hogging. Our dues are $5 per year (to send the landowner and his wife
>out to dinner once a year). We have no meetings. We have no safety
>officer. We probably have a president, but I'm not sure who it is-maybe
>it's me. We have only 2 rules: 1) have fun. 2) Be safe. Everyone in
>our group has been flying long enough to know how to be safe. It is the
>most relaxed RC flying I've done in 25 years.
>
>It convinces me that clubs and their petty politics are the main reason
>people quit RC.
>
>H McCollister
>AMA614409
And this is how it should be!!!!
Do away with the politics! Self insure, AMA, or SFA, doesn't matter, but do
one. Limit rules to those only absolutely needed. Be safe. Have fun.
So, how do I join? And do you have any ideas on how to convince my wife
to move?
Stephen
Stephen
Kevin Kline <kli...@erols.com> wrote:
>You Know? Someone should pack up this entire thread and ship it off the
>the AMA and SFA with a short note of explanation of how it came about.
>Who knows what it might generate but the fact is, there are a great many
>modelers out here who no longer cater to the powers that be.
>
>K. Kline
>
I agree. But I don't think much would come of it. The AMA has little to do
with the majority of the problems listed (ie, personalities, number of
members, channel hog's, availability to practice touch and go's,
overcrowding on weekends, etc).
But who knows. Besides, it can't hurt.
Stephen
Joempetro
I remember visiting a certain club in New York state that I was
thinking of joining.
I met a really nice fellow with a Sig Kadet sr. After we talked
a bit, he said that he had just joined the club. He really didn't
want to join, but they said that his ninety dollar "probationary"
fee was non refundable.
Anyway, he took off and climbed really high.
All of the sudden, this jerk comes screaming "you flew over the
pits!".
As he proceeds to spit on this fellow while yelling in his face,
I'm thinking , well you know what I was thinking.
Our friend quickly spirals his plane down and lands.
He then packed up his stuff and left.
All the while, the "safety officer" is telling anyone that would
listen, what an asshole our friend was for flying over the pits!
I never wanted to punch somebody so bad in my life.
I left.
I should have punched him anyway.
Joe
'
Chuck Gadd
On 03 May 1998 04:28:01 GMT, joem...@aol.com (Joempetro) wrote:
>I remember visiting a certain club in New York state that I was
> thinking of joining.
Why protect the identity of this club? Save some other person the
$90.00 "probationary fee"!
Chuck Gadd
Director of Software Development, Cyber FX Communications.
Remove the -NO SPAM- from my email address to send me e-mail.
Ken Battersby
On 03 May 1998 00:09:15 GMT, gera...@aol.com (Gerald43) wrote:
>> I discovered my own home insurance covered me
snip
>Are you sure, it usually doesn't. . .
>
Hi
If I may add a few words here.
I have my home insurance policy open in front of me now. The
"Occupiers' personal and employers' liability" section covers
(quote):-
a). accidental bodily injury to and sickness contracted by any person.
b). accidental loss of or damage to material property.
<snip>
liability shall not exceed £1,000,000 except in respect of damages for
bodily injury......when liability shall not exceed £10,000,000
<snip>
in the United Kingdom.......and in the remainder of the world in
respect of temporary visits.
<snip>
But not liability arising directly or indirectly by through or in
connection with.............aircraft OTHER THAN powered model aircraft
with an engine capacity not exceeding 10cc and/or a wing span not
exceeding 1.88 metres (6 feet) and non-powered model aircraft unless
such model aircraft are participating in flying displays.
If I interpret the legal wording correctly, my home insurance gives me
£10,000,000 (about $16,600,000) third party insurance for bodily
injury - £1,000,000 for property - whilst flying model aircraft
world-wide. This is of course a British insurance policy but I feel
sure that some companies in the USA must include similar cover.
I happened to change my home insurance company some years ago, and
whilst later idly reading the small print in the new policy my chin
hit the floor and I fell off my chair in amazement when I spotted the
above section. Don't ask me why they choose to throw in the above
cover - and so specifically worded - I just know I am not complaining
about it.
I have fortunately never had to put it to the test by making a claim,
however a couple of years ago I managed to spill a whole bottle of CA
glue over the Tx when the top came off (Yeah, careless I know - my
wife claims I am just naturally clumsy) and claimed for a new Tx under
the home contents policy. I pointed out that as I needed a new Tx
urgently (we were having a rare heatwave here in the UK) I had taken
the liberty of buying a new one and included the bill with my initial
claim form. To my astonishment I received a cheque for the full
amount by return of post. For some reason it did not affect my no
claims bonus either.
Perhaps I am just lucky in my insurance cover but, as you can see from
the above, there are some insurance companies that do include model
flying in home contents cover.
Regards
Ken Battersby
To reply by Email please remove X from <GlobalnetX.co.uk>
Kevin Kline
Howard McCollister wrote:
>
> Stephen wrote:
>
> > So, how do I join? And do you have any ideas on how to convince my wife
> > to move?
> >
>
> flying for the two weeks in the summer when we don't have snow on the
> ground.
>
> Nah...just kidding. I think our average temperature was higher than
> Florida's this el Nino year. I KNOW that South Carolina got more snow.
>
> H McCollister
Central Minn? This gets stranger all the time. We own property near
Brainerd (sp). My wife lived and worked in Delano for six years before
we were married. Minnesota is one of the places we would like to move
to. I love flying off snow too. (gotta keep it in context)
Kevin
Kevin Kline
Stephen wrote:
>
> Kevin Kline <kli...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> >You Know? Someone should pack up this entire thread and ship it off the
> >the AMA and SFA with a short note of explanation of how it came about.
> >Who knows what it might generate but the fact is, there are a great many
> >modelers out here who no longer cater to the powers that be.
> >
> >K. Kline
> >
>
> I agree. But I don't think much would come of it. The AMA has little to do
> with the majority of the problems listed (ie, personalities, number of
> members, channel hog's, availability to practice touch and go's,
> overcrowding on weekends, etc).
>
> But who knows. Besides, it can't hurt.
>
> Stephen
>
Possibly but, any organization that really cares about its membership
needs to keep in touch with them and know how and what they are
feeling. These posts might give someone some ideas as to how to pull
members back in or make some other meaningful changes. Then again they
may not.
I believe this hobby needs a good organization to lead it. I also think
that at present the AMA should be that org. Even though I am not
presently a member due to some differences I've had with them. I think
the AMA has some serious shortfalls. But, I've stated before that I
would rejoin if I saw some changes in a particular direction. I have
seen some efforts that way but I am waiting to see if they are real or
just window dressing.
K. Kline
Lecisron
>koko...@globalnetX.co.uk (Ken Battersby)
wrote:
>accidental bodily injury to and sickness contracted by any person.
>b). accidental loss of or damage to material property.
><snip>
>But not liability arising directly or indirectly by through or in
>connection with.............aircraft OTHER THAN powered model aircraft
>with an engine capacity not exceeding 10cc and/or a wing span not
>exceeding 1.88 metres (6 feet) and non-powered model aircraft unless
>such model aircraft are participating in flying displays.
Here in the US, my last homeowners insurance policy words it as excluding
private full size aircraft and not excluding model aircraft. It does not go
into any more detail as to size or power on the model aircraft.
Here, many people fly models exceeding 6 ft. and 10 cc., so this might be
percived as a problem.
I would look into what participating in a flying display means. Over here that
might mean you are only covered only for a sanctioned event, etc. Is someone
covered if hit by a broken prop in the pits while you are just sport flying
some evening? The Insurance Situation is a mess over here in the US, betweem
Home, Auto and the HMO's.
<snip>>I have fortunately never had to put it to the test by making a claim,
>however a couple of years ago I managed to spill a whole bottle of CA
>glue over the Tx when the top came off
<snip>> claimed for a new Tx under
>the home contents policy. I pointed out that as I needed a new Tx
>urgently (we were having a rare heatwave here in the UK) I had taken
>the liberty of buying a new one and included the bill with my initial
>claim form. To my astonishment I received a cheque for the full
>amount by return of post. For some reason it did not affect my no
>claims bonus either.
I have never had to file a hobby related claim. Knock on Wood!
Here, Home liability coverage is expensive. It costs me over $700 US/ yr. to
insure my meager shack. We also have all kinds of problems with Insurance,
fraud, people getting dropped for no reason. Put in a minor claim and your
premium goes up a lot!
I have never heard of modelers making hobby goof type claims on their home
owner liability policies here.
American Express Card once TV advertised: Kid's RC Aeromaster flies away and
is covered because it was purchased with American Express. That coverage
quickly disappeared!
Here, AMA Insurance covers you as Secondary Liability coverage if your
homeowner's covers you as primary.
If you have no homeowners liability coverage, AMA becomes primary coverage.
At $48 US for AMA membership, you get the Liability coverage for free! {:^) A
Kid (junior) can get membership for $1 US, there is a real bargin now.
The only local AMA Claim I am personally aware of, got paid; this was a case
where the pilot and the spectator both did something really stupid.
It is scarey what some people ( The Clueless) will do with no concern for
safety, common sense, risk or bad judgement. regarding the other person these
days in our hobby.
Regards,
Ron L.
RAMAC Secr.
http:/members.aol.com/Lecisron/
Cregger
I'm glad to see that I have some company, Pete. I'm in and out of the
hobby quite a bit myself. I usually quit after my tolerance for
incompetence has been reached. This last time I did something different,
I held on to my old stuff and even bought some new during the hiatus.
Clubs can be wonderful organizations, but all it takes are a couple of
gung-ho "I know better than you" types to ruin it for the rest.
Fortunately, most of the type A individuals with this type of behavior
expire early. I'll just out wait them!
Ed Cregger
ecre...@jnlk.com
Pete Kerezman wrote:
> I quit lots of times, for a lot of reasons, but here i am - again.
>
> Too late to stop now.
>
> Texas Pete
> Pete Kerezman (pete...@aol.com)
> Kingsville, Texas AMA 59376
Guy Fuller
thread was going along very nicely and now others are posting and
starting to pound AMA vs SFA along with some things that did'nt pertain
to the orginal post. Wish they could have kept it on topic.
Maybe I should create a Renegade page just for renegade flyers.
AJDalton7
>Maybe I should create a Renegade page just for renegade flyers.
I like it !! Non-members Only.
Arthur
DNations
Has anyone purchased a model paraplane from Airfoil Aviation? If you
have, could you please email me directly? Thanks.
darrell nations
Ken Battersby
Hi again
>>On Sun, 03 May 1998 10:33:58 GMT, koko...@globalnetX.co.uk (Ken Battersby) wrote:
>>If I interpret the legal wording correctly, my home insurance gives me
>>£10,000,000 (about $16,600,000) third party insurance for bodily
>>injury - £1,000,000 for property - whilst flying model aircraft
>On 03 May 1998 14:12:54 GMT, leci...@aol.com (Lecisron) wrote:
>Here, many people fly models exceeding 6 ft. and 10 cc., so this might be
>percived as a problem.
I must admit that over the years my models and engines have been
gradually getting larger and some are now well over 6ft and 10cc. My
wife is beginning to suspect that I am working up to building a sneaky
full size homebuild - "Of course I can't sit in it, dear. It's just a
bit bigger than my last model is all". I would add that my larger
models are only flown when I definitely know that my BMFA insurance
(see below) is valid - i.e on the official club field. Any "private
flying" is done with models under 6ft or 10cc.
>I would look into what participating in a flying display means. Over here that
>might mean you are covered only for a sanctioned event, etc. Is someone
>covered if hit by a broken prop in the pits while you are just sport flying
>some evening?
I do in fact belong to a model club and, as a club member, I am
covered by the BMFA (British Model Flying Association) insurance
whilst flying on the club field and at displays. However the BMFA
insurance is only officially in force at "official" club sites. My
club interprets this that if a club member wants to fly alone then he
becomes an "official club site" as long as he is flying legally with
permission. This is of course murky legal territory and it is nice to
know there is alternative independent insurance for "emergencies".
>Here, Home liability coverage is expensive. It costs me over $700 US/ yr. to
>insure my meager shack.
I am probably lucky in that I live in a low risk area. It costs me
well under $300 to insure my home (almost certainly meagerer than
yours!!) and contents.
>I have never heard of modelers making hobby goof type claims on their home
>owner liability policies here.
O.K I will come clean. I did not actually say to my insurance company
that I had poured superglue over my JR 347 model aircraft Tx. I
actually claimed accidental damage to a "computer transmitter" due to
a domestic accident (quite true). I enclosed a bill and left it up to
the insurance company to ask for further details - they didn't and
instead paid up promptly. However I do not see a problem. If I had
accidentally poured superglue or paint over my microwave oven or TV
set I would presumably have been insured and if my model radio control
equipment had been stolen in a burglary I would have been insured, so
I quite seriously think it was a legitimate claim. After all, as you
rightly imply, insurance companies charge enough and it is the first
claim of any sort I have ever made.
>It is scarey what some people ( The Clueless) will do with no concern for
>safety, common sense, risk or bad judgement. regarding the other person these
>days in our hobby.
> Regards
> Ron L.
> RAMAC Secr.
I must admit that there is room for definite improvement in my flying
ability but the older I get the more aware I get of "damage
limitation" both to third parties and also to myself (and my
finances), and now try to "cover my back" in all aspects of life by
means of insurance etc. It horrifies me now to think of the silly
things I did and risks I took in my youth - not just model flying.
As far as flying alone goes I think I am in quite an enviable
position. Although the club field is 25 miles away, I live next to a
farm and the farmer is quite happy for me to fly virtually anywhere on
his land. I have even (partly) achieved a long held ambition to
actually fly off my own property - hand launch from my small garden
over the fence, but unfortunately I have to land in the adjacent
field.
Apart from being surrounded by grass fields, within a few miles of my
home I have any number of hills ideal for slope soaring; lakes, a
river estuary and a watersports marina for flying off floats, and
"creme de la creme" about 4 miles away there is a disused WW2 airfield
still complete with tarmac in fairly good condition.
The only "snag" with the airfield is that it is situated adjacent to a
prison (No problem in the UK but I suspect flying right next to a
state penitentiary may be illegal in the USA). I first thought that
the prison may potentially make dead stick landings "interesting" but
both myself and other independent flyers taking advantage of the
airfield are assured by the prison guards that should we miss the
strip all we have to do is to knock on the prison gates and ask for
"my toy aeroplane back please" - hasn't happened yet........but.
This prison is quite unique (possibly in the world) in that just
outside the fence is an aircraft museum (full size - but non flyable)
started privately by one of the prison officers and a lot of the
museum work is actually carried out by serving prisoners, with a great
deal of restoration work being done within the fence in the prison
workshops - cue the jokes about Colditz and gliders being built in the
rafters !! I keep meaning to get myself involved with this museum
(No!! you do not have to be a bank robber - any volunteers are
apparently welcome) as a change from "toy aeroplanes" but never seem
to find the time.
Guy Fuller
advice and thought before typing.
Later - Guy
This ONE'S for YOU!
AJDalton7 wrote:
>
> >Maybe I should create a Renegade page just for renegade flyers.
>
> I like it !! Non-members Only.
> Arthur
Nah! Don't get the chance to tweak a few noses.
Hugh
"I wouldn't belong to a club that would have me for a member!"
Howard McCollister
Stephen wrote:
> Brainerd? Is that anywhere near Fargo? :-)
Yeah. Sure. You betcha.
H McCollister
Steve Lewin
The message <354c453f...@read.news.global.net.uk>
from koko...@globalnetX.co.uk (Ken Battersby) contains these words:
> Perhaps I am just lucky in my insurance cover but, as you can see from
> the above, there are some insurance companies that do include model
> flying in home contents cover.
Hi Ken
So for the benefit of the rest of in the UK, what company is this
insurance with ? I've just checked mine and it doesn't mention model aircraft.
--
Steve
NHP/CSM Flight Sim Model profile swap page (and more) at:
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/slewin/csmpage.htm
Stephen
luth...@hotmail.com
I just got back from the weekend and read every reply, and yes, one person put
my butt in the wringer, but I can handle that. I specifically quit going to
the club meetings because of the continual, hour long arguments over AMA
membership and if it should be required, and those who wanted to go with
SFA. The mudslinging by SFA over the insurance coverage led me to
investigate my own insurance, which provides me coverage I am happy with. I
am at present only slope soaring a Gentle Lady on a remote ridge where I
haven't seen anyone . . . so I'm not too worried about anything major
happening. The club I quit within six months split, and out of it a new club
formed which required no insurance, and was only for fun flyers or those who
would like to hang out in a club, not necessarily even fly, but by then I had
become weary of the club scene and just never bothered with it anymore, and I
think that was about 4 years ago or so. The other criticisms concerned the
public field, where the club members flew, as it had no field of its own. I
would have to say that the number one problem with fields in my experience is
channel hogs, and I was forced to become a renegade because of this. The
other problems were more individual, but I never had a personal problem with
anyone, in fact I made many good friends because I would always help anyone
fly and enjoyed the company of the old guys there. Unfortunantly, those
older fellows are all dead now, and I have half a dozen airplanes hanging in
the rafters of my garage that were given to me by widows and sons of those old
flyers, with words such as, "I knew he'd like you to have it, etc." As for
cost, when I flew more I spent about $2000 a year on my modeling activities,
now I probably spend a couple of hundred, but I am finishing a power plane so
I may look into the club here (I now live in another area) and see if it seems
like a good bunch to fly with. That Minnesota club sounds fantastic, and I
love the snow . . . Thanks all, anyone who replied to my e-mail I will
respond to personally in the next couple of days.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
David Fisher
I tried the Hirobo Paraplane, it is quite easy to fly but avoid flying
on windy (at ALL) days. I needed a good strong battery, also, to
provide a decent run time/climb. Lands like a feather and is easy to
keep flying, but is a little boring once you've flown it for awhile.
--
------------------------
David Fisher
Chico, CA
(dave...@earthling.net)
------------------------
Ken Battersby
On Sun, 3 May 1998 20:57:48 +0100, Steve Lewin <sle...@zetnet.co.uk>
wrote:
>The message <354c453f...@read.news.global.net.uk>
> from koko...@globalnetX.co.uk (Ken Battersby) contains these words:
>
>> Perhaps I am just lucky in my insurance cover but, as you can see from
>> the above, there are some insurance companies that do include model
>> flying in home contents cover.
>
>Hi Ken
>
>So for the benefit of the rest of in the UK, what company is this
>insurance with ? I've just checked mine and it doesn't mention model aircraft.
>
>--
>Steve
Hi
Norwich Union Direct.
Stephen
Howard McCollister <hm...@uslink.net> wrote:
>Stephen wrote:
>
>> Brainerd? Is that anywhere near Fargo? :-)
>
>
>Yeah. Sure. You betcha.
>
>H McCollister
I just got my days worth of laughter!
Thanks Howard.....
Stephen
your name goes here
We have people that make the some of the same complaints. The seem to
be people that.....
The don't want to come to meetings, or serve as a club officer.
They don't want to join the AMA, even though they don't have any other
insurance, or support an organization that represents their interest to
the FCC, or EPA, etc.
They don't want to enlarge the field even though it's like trying to
set down a giant scale airplane on a postage stamp.
They don't want to allow odd channel narrow band radios because they
don't want to update their old narrow band even channel radio.
They don't want to get a larger tractor to cut mowing time from 4 hours
to 2 hours, even though they never serve on the field committee.
They don't want to support a club, they would rather fly for free at the
soccor field next door and cause interference.
They just want to freeload.
Sorry for getting on my soapbox,
I support the AMA, IMAA, my local rc club,
Bill
luth...@hotmail.com
In article <6ikrpa$b...@news.umsl.edu>#1/1,
quit the club scene all together. As for being called a freeloader- I've paid
my dues to the AMA for many years, and if I go back into power I'll join the
AMA again, but at the moment I only have a Gentle Lady that I soar on a remote
ridge in the middle of nowhere, and I think my present insurance can handle
that.
Jagdwaffe
>Bill wrote:
>The don't want to come to meetings, or serve as a club officer.
Just like the people at my club who see things the sames way as you. If you
believe everyone should be a club officer, newsletter boy, or field mower it
should be written into the by laws.
>They don't want to join the AMA,
I wont even touch this one.
>They don't want to allow odd channel narrow band radios because they
>don't want to update their old narrow band even channel radio
90% of the time it the long term (politically active) members who have the
oldest radios.
>I support the AMA, IMAA, my local rc club,
So do I, but I would jump at the chance to be able to fly without a club and
its various hassles.
Guy Fuller
your name goes here wrote:
>
> We have people that make the some of the same complaints. The seem to
> be people that.....
>
> insurance, or support an organization that represents their interest to
> the FCC, or EPA, etc.
> They don't want to enlarge the field even though it's like trying to
> set down a giant scale airplane on a postage stamp.
> They don't want to get a larger tractor to cut mowing time from 4 hours
> to 2 hours, even though they never serve on the field committee.
> They don't want to support a club, they would rather fly for free at the
> soccor field next door and cause interference.
> They just want to freeload.
>
> Sorry for getting on my soapbox,
>
>
Gee Bill, that is almost exactly the reasons I left except you forgot
that there may be several people in a club that have a personal agendia.
Kevin Kline
your name goes here wrote:
>
> We have people that make the some of the same complaints. The seem to
> be people that.....
>
> The don't want to come to meetings, or serve as a club officer.
I was President for two years and attended virtually all the meetings in
that time.
> They don't want to join the AMA, even though they don't have any other
> insurance, or support an organization that represents their interest to
> the FCC, or EPA, etc.
I belonged to the AMA for many years and supported them (still do in
some respects) but I stopped sending in the cash when the AMA refused to
support my club.
> They don't want to enlarge the field even though it's like trying to
> set down a giant scale airplane on a postage stamp.
We averaged over five grand a year in field expense. Major field
efforts three or four times a year. And I attended every one I could.
> They don't want to allow odd channel narrow band radios because they
> don't want to update their old narrow band even channel radio.
The old radios are out. Regardless what people may want they are simply
against the law now.
> They don't want to get a larger tractor to cut mowing time from 4 hours
> to 2 hours, even though they never serve on the field committee.
Cut the grass many times. Rolled it too and even supported a motion to
buy a new, bigger mower at a time we were close to not having anything
to mow with it.
> They don't want to support a club, they would rather fly for free at the
> soccor field next door and cause interference.
Support is a two way street. Not just at the club level but with the
AMA, SFA or whomever. I'm willing to support a club as long as the rest
of the members are willing to support me by supporting the club as
well. If not, then I withdraw my support.
> They just want to freeload.
Or are perhaps simply fed up with everyone else. A club at any level
requires a certain amount of trust. Remove that trust and you loose the
club one member at a time. This is true at the local level and it's
true at the national level. I just happen to fly with only those I can
trust to do their part. A couple of close friends and Me, Myself and
I. The rest have earned my distrust in a big way.
K. Kline
Jerry Brian
Would you like to sell the paraplane ?
I don't need any radio gear or Battery pack, Speed control etc.
What do you want for the Chute and or pod section ?
Jerry
Jonathan Lowe
Kevin Kline wrote in message <354B18...@erols.com>...
>Patrick Willis wrote:
>Ideally every club should have two flields or flightlines. One for the
>sunday flier types and beginners and one for those wishing to practice
>the serious side of the hobby. Of course this would mean that one of
>the groups would miss seeing some great crashes! :)
>
>K. Kline
Hi,
I stooped flying for a while because I started doing it professionally, in
1989 I started hearding geese using a RC drone. Very effective, however
after doing it for two years I really got sick of flying RC and took up
Computers instead. I'm back with RC models now :-)
Cheers,
Jonathan,
JoLo@clubi dot ie
Just replace dot with (.) to send e-mail
-----------------------------------------------------------
Cain Fly
>They just want to freeload.
I support the AMA, IMAA, my local rc club,
Bill
Do not be sorry. YOU are correct and you list the worthless free-loaders very
well. Keep up the good work.
HC/TX
Jagdwaffe
>From: cai...@aol.com (Cain Fly
>Do not be sorry. YOU are correct and you list the worthless free-loaders very
>well. Keep up the good work.
So everybody who flies from land they own is a freeloader, so everybody who has
no club near them and flies in a field is a freeloader. If you dont attend club
meeting or become an officer or mow the field you are a freeloader. I dont
know about you but I just read my club by-laws and it only asks me for the $60
a year. Some people do not have the time to be a club officer but it seems to
me every club sure takes those dues from them. Freeloaders? I think not!
________________________________________________________________________
Fliegen ist nicht der größte Thrill, Landung ist.
Red Scholefield
You just about said it all.
Let the other guys do the work, I just want to fly.
> We have people that make the some of the same complaints. The seem to
> be people that.....
>
> The don't want to come to meetings, or serve as a club officer.
> They don't want to join the AMA, even though they don't have any other
> insurance, or support an organization that represents their interest to
> the FCC, or EPA, etc.
> They don't want to enlarge the field even though it's like trying to
> set down a giant scale airplane on a postage stamp.
> They don't want to allow odd channel narrow band radios because they
> don't want to update their old narrow band even channel radio.
> They don't want to get a larger tractor to cut mowing time from 4 hours
> to 2 hours, even though they never serve on the field committee.
> They don't want to support a club, they would rather fly for free at the
> soccor field next door and cause interference.
Jonathan Lowe
Hi Kelvin
>true at the national level. I just happen to fly with only those I can
>trust to do their part. A couple of close friends and Me, Myself and
>I. The rest have earned my distrust in a big way.
>
>K. Kline
How?
Cheers,
Model Flyer
Howard McCollister
your name goes here wrote, sounding just like the president of a club I
once belonged to :
>
>
> The don't want to come to meetings, or serve as a club officer.
> They don't want to join the AMA, even though they don't have any other
> insurance, or support an organization that represents their interest to
> the FCC, or EPA, etc.
> They don't want to enlarge the field even though it's like trying to
> set down a giant scale airplane on a postage stamp.
> They don't want to allow odd channel narrow band radios because they
> don't want to update their old narrow band even channel radio.
> They don't want to get a larger tractor to cut mowing time from 4 hours
> to 2 hours, even though they never serve on the field committee.
> They don't want to support a club, they would rather fly for free at the
> soccor field next door and cause interference.
In other words, they just want to fly radio control model airplanes and
avoid all the other baloney that so often goes along with big clubs.
Such incredible nerve. We should pass a law that REQUIRES those people
to belong to your club. I'll bet you could find a legislator that would
sponsor such a bill. In fact, I'll bet the AMA is lobbying for such a
bill right now.
Howard McCollister
AMA 614409
This ONE'S for YOU!
Sure.
Hugh
Troy Stark
You pepole didn't quit rc you quit the clubs. Title should be why I won't
belong to a r/c club
tst...@wyoming.com
Guy Fuller wrote in message <354E58...@azstarnet.com>...
>your name goes here wrote:
>>
>> be people that.....
>>
>> They don't want to join the AMA, even though they don't have any other
>> insurance, or support an organization that represents their interest to
>> the FCC, or EPA, etc.
>> They don't want to enlarge the field even though it's like trying to
>> set down a giant scale airplane on a postage stamp.
>> They don't want to allow odd channel narrow band radios because they
>> don't want to update their old narrow band even channel radio.
>> They don't want to get a larger tractor to cut mowing time from 4 hours
>> to 2 hours, even though they never serve on the field committee.
>> They don't want to support a club, they would rather fly for free at the
>> soccor field next door and cause interference.
>>
>> Sorry for getting on my soapbox,
>>
>> I support the AMA, IMAA, my local rc club,
>>
>> Bill
>
Kevin Kline
Mainly in ways cited in this thread. Politics, attitudes, you name it.
I want to fly and am willing to do my bit in a club. But I also expect
the club (meaning other members) to do it's bit as well. The straw that
broke my camels back was when I realized that the "club", including the
higher powers it claimed loyalty to, expecte me to save the flying site
simply because I was the president. Yes, I was in the forefront of the
fight but I should not have been alone. Of a club of some 120 members
only three of us initially did anything to save our site or find a new
one. Others joined only after two of us tired of the hassle and left
the club.
K. Kline
swi...@aamu.edu
> You just about said it all.
>
> Let the other guys do the work, I just want to fly.
>
> > We have people that make the some of the same complaints. The seem to
> > be people that.....
> >
> > The don't want to come to meetings, or serve as a club officer.
> > They don't want to join the AMA, even though they don't have any other
> > insurance, or support an organization that represents their interest to
> > the FCC, or EPA, etc.
> > They don't want to enlarge the field even though it's like trying to
> > set down a giant scale airplane on a postage stamp.
> > They don't want to allow odd channel narrow band radios because they
> > don't want to update their old narrow band even channel radio.
> > They don't want to get a larger tractor to cut mowing time from 4 hours
> > to 2 hours, even though they never serve on the field committee.
> > They don't want to support a club, they would rather fly for free at the
> > soccor field next door and cause interference.
> > They just want to freeload.
> >
> > Sorry for getting on my soapbox,
> >
> > I support the AMA, IMAA, my local rc club,
> >
> > Bill
Not all of us are retired. Some of us work for a living and have young kids.
Having any time at all just to fly is sometimes challenging (not to mention
build the thing, drive to field, repair, etc...). As far as coming to
meetings, the first meeting I went to at my local club (RC/RC Huntsville, AL)
all they did was to argue for the first 20-30 minutes about some of the most
simple things, if it wasn't for the President of the club keeping things under
wraps I'm sure they would have been there all night, arguing (from what I
have read in this newsgroup, arguing and RC club meeetings go together hand in
hand.) AMA, well I don't mind the $50 a year, I suppose they do something for
our hobby, right? As for club support, I fly with a friend. Never even flew at
the club field. Too many: rules (some are with merit others are not), grumpy
old men, etc... etc....
As far as the freeloader comment, some of us just want to fly. Just because we
buy a model airplane doesn't mean we have the time or that we even want to
devote ourselves to this hobby, I got a family. They come first, not some
club. Too bad people like Bill and Red think that because you own a plane you
should join a club, pay AMA, cut the grass, become a club officer, etc...
Remember, for some it's only a HOBBY, others, well.......
Howard McCollister
In any organization or hobby club, there are people who simply pay their
dues and there are those who do the majority of the work. And it always
seems that the latter group complains about the former group. I've been
in both groups. Eventually, the complaining by the worker bees gets to
be so prevalent that the non-worker bees get tired of the bullshit. They
can either stay, and suffer the ongoing wrath of the club's power elite
(as mirrored in some the the responses in this thread), or they can do
what many of us do; quit and form another kinder/gentler club, or fly by
themselves in a hayfield or public park or off a road etc. etc. etc.
I note that many of the outraged, self-righteous responses in this
thread are from people well-known in the hobby, and/or with low AMA
numbers. I deduce that there is a strong liklihood that these people
tend to be members of the "power elite". I suspect that they don't have
to put up with the bullshit; they cause it.
Some people just want to fly their airplanes, and some enjoy the
politics of being in the command structure of a local (or national)
club. To each his own. Whatever it takes to enjoy as many aspects of
one's chosen hobby as possible. But the self-righteousness and finger
pointing is really rather tiring, and ultimately self-defeating if the
idea is to have a group of people united in a common goal.
Howard McCollister
AMA 614409
RBarkus
swi...@aamu.edu wrote:
>
> Not all of us are retired. Some of us work for a living and have young kids.
> Having any time at all just to fly is sometimes challenging (not to mention
And if you did fly at a field how long would you fly there if the runway
grass was always 2 feet tall, or the asphault (sp) was full of pot
holes? Would you continue to stay a member of the club anyway, or would
you quit because you could not fly due to the condition the the
runway??? I wonder.
> build the thing, drive to field, repair, etc...). As far as coming to
> meetings, the first meeting I went to at my local club (RC/RC Huntsville, AL)
> all they did was to argue for the first 20-30 minutes about some of the most
Did you motion to end discussion? Or did you sit quietly and do
nothing??
snip
> our hobby, right? As for club support, I fly with a friend. Never even flew at
> the club field. Too many: rules (some are with merit others are not), grumpy
> old men, etc... etc....
Then why the heck did you join the club. Buy your kid another pair of
shoes instead. It amazes me how a few people can control your life.
Tell the grumpy old men to buzz off or F off what ever you prefer....
they usually will.
> As far as the freeloader comment, some of us just want to fly. Just because we
> buy a model airplane doesn't mean we have the time or that we even want to
> devote ourselves to this hobby, I got a family. They come first, not some
> club.
If you join a club and use the facilities it only seems fair that you
hlep out if you can..... I have a hard time imagining anyone being so
busy that they could not attend 1 clean-up day, or some other small
thing. If you are truly that busy then I think you don't have time to
fly at all in which case who cares about the grumpy old men, the club or
the AMA.
Robert
Jagdwaffe
>From: RBarkus
>hlep out if you can.
The only thing the club asked for is dues!!!!!! Nowhere does it say that I
have to mow the field. I was clear with my club that the only free time I
would have would be spent flying but they still took the $60.00. I have said
it before and I will say it again--if officer work and field maintenence are
REQUIRED then put it in the by-laws. I owe my club nothing more than dues.
JCroad
In article <3550C3B0...@magicnet.net>, RBarkus <rob...@magicnet.net>
writes:
>> build the thing, drive to field, repair, etc...). As far as coming to
>> meetings, the first meeting I went to at my local club (RC/RC Huntsville,
>AL)
>> all they did was to argue for the first 20-30 minutes about some of the
>most
>
>Did you motion to end discussion? Or did you sit quietly and do
>nothing??
>
>
Read the post. It was his _first_ meeting.
You gonna walk into your first meeting and immediately try to get everyone else
to shut up?
Great way to get off to a good start with the club, eh?
Of course, given some of the comments I've read here there are probably a few
that would do just that. Within three months or so they would be a club officer
and shortly thereafter would be complaining about members leaving the club.
I suspect that R/C flying, being a kind of "techie" hobby, has a higher
percentage of introverts than the general population. Introverts rarely make
waves, but will leave what they perceive as an unpleasant situation very
quickly and _not_ return. And the extroverts always wonder why, if they even
notice.
JC
Guy Fuller StarCad Plans
-snip-
I have a hard time imagining anyone being so
>busy that they could not attend 1 clean-up day, or some other small
>thing.
>Robert
Robert want to come and work with me for a week? I could use a break :)
swi...@aamu.edu
>
> And if you did fly at a field how long would you fly there if the runway
> grass was always 2 feet tall, or the asphault (sp) was full of pot
> holes? Would you continue to stay a member of the club anyway, or would
> you quit because you could not fly due to the condition the the
> runway??? I wonder.
I wouldn't stay a member of a club that had potholes in the runway, that was
not what the discussion was about (besides that is what part of my $50 is
for). The discussion was about if you just 'fly' (god forbide that) then you
are some kind of freeloader
> Did you motion to end discussion? Or did you sit quietly and do
> nothing??
I would be there 'motioning' all night, I left after the first 30 minutes, I
wasn't a member yet...
it's a descent club, nice facilities, some good people (some bad ones too)
>
> Then why the heck did you join the club. Buy your kid another pair of
> shoes instead. It amazes me how a few people can control your life.
> Tell the grumpy old men to buzz off or F off what ever you prefer....
> they usually will.
what amazes me is your reply, as far as telling people to 'F' off, that's not
me, I don't stay away from the club just because of a certain few, that's just
part of it. I have friends who don't like it either due to certain rules, some
of the people, too far to drive, aren't willing to spend $50 to join the club,
aren't willing to spend $50 to join the AMA, etc...
> If you join a club and use the facilities it only seems fair that you
> hlep out if you can
HELLO, were you not paying attention? That's the point, IF YOU CAN HELP OUT
THEN DO IT, IF YOU CAN'T DUE TO A BUSY SCHEDULE THEN THAT DOES NOT MAKE YOU
SOME KIND OF FREELOADER.
I am thankful that there are people out there willing to help, start clubs,
run them, maintain them, hold fly-ins, and so forth. The folks that I know
that do this are mainly retired and have some spare time on their hands. I
glad that they do this. It furthers the hobby, but just because you can't
participate to the same degree, or do nothing more than 'just fly' doesn't
make you a freeloader. If I'm still into this in 30 years then I'll probably
be on some field mowing it in the middle of August, or be a CD at a fly-in.
But I do have a:
A newborn
A wife
A house
A business
A life other than RC (god forbide)
>..... I have a hard time imagining anyone being so
> busy that they could not attend 1 clean-up day, or some other small
> thing.
that's not too much to ask...
> If you are truly that busy then I think you don't have time to
> fly at all in which case who cares about the grumpy old men, the club or
> the AMA.
once again you missed the ball, it doesn't matter if you think I don't have
enough time or not, and yes, believe it or not some people have just enough
time to break out their old trainer once a month or so and pray that their is
someone at the field willing to instruct them...
RBarkus
Agreed, no argument there. I just hope that when things are NOT the way
you like them you still give them your sixty bucks and keep your mouth
shut. Jag.. not to you directly, but IF you aren't part of what makes
a club good, then for God's sake don't be part of what makes it bad.
Robert
Jagdwaffe wrote:
>
> >From: RBarkus
> >If you join a club and use the facilities it only seems fair that you
Im1bad1
Howard McCollister wrote (and I snipped):
> Eventually, the complaining by the worker bees gets to
>be so prevalent that the non-worker bees get tired of the bullshit.
and,
>I note that many...<snip>.. self-righteous responses in this thread... >from
people well-known in the hobby ...<snip>... there is a strong >liklihood that
these people...<snip>... don't have to put up with the >bullshit; they cause
it.
This is an interesting point of view. Those who do the work in a cllub should
never complain about the freeloaders because the freeloaders are united with
them in the common goal of flying. Freeloading is O.K., everything else is
"bullshit."
Tom in PGH AMA 10397
JShaw16840
>I wouldn't stay a member of a club that had potholes in the runway, that was
>not what the discussion was about (besides that is what part of my $50 is
>for). The discussion was about if
What you are talking about is pay for fly club. Don't know one. A club is a
group of modelers who band to gether to fly and talk planes. some of the requ.
are that we all pitch in to help so that the dues aren't $200. Yep, you are
one of the problems. You must expect someone else to do the work. $50 does
not rent land, lay asphalt, mow grass and maintain the field. Looks like you
should belong to a Golf club instead.. JIMSHAW
Joe Baccellieri
You act as if you are the only person who flies RC who must juggle between
work, kids and all the other responsibilities of life. I have five children
and a sixth on the way, I too have very little free time and would love to
spend all of it flying RC. Unfortunately we sometimes have to make
sacrifices to do what is right! And volunteering some of your precious free
time to help maintain the facilities that YOU use is the right thing. You
can try to justify your actions in your own mind but that doesn't mean you
are right. If we all had your attitude there would be very few (if any)
flying fields or clubs and then what would you do? The fact is you want to
enjoy the amenities that are provided by people who have sacrificed their
time and labor. You think you can justify your actions by saying your time
is more valuable (that's what your message implies) than the others members
of your club.
I agree with the original poster who labeled you a freeloader! You could
volunteer some of your precious free time the key is you don't want to!
Just my .02
Joe Baccellieri
swi...@aamu.edu wrote in message <6ir6rs$uu4$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>>
>> And if you did fly at a field how long would you fly there if the runway
>> grass was always 2 feet tall, or the asphault (sp) was full of pot
>> holes? Would you continue to stay a member of the club anyway, or would
>> you quit because you could not fly due to the condition the the
>> runway??? I wonder.
>I wouldn't stay a member of a club that had potholes in the runway, that
was
>not what the discussion was about (besides that is what part of my $50 is
>for). The discussion was about if you just 'fly' (god forbide that) then
you
>are some kind of freeloader
>
>
>> Did you motion to end discussion? Or did you sit quietly and do
>> nothing??
>I would be there 'motioning' all night, I left after the first 30 minutes,
I
>wasn't a member yet...
>it's a descent club, nice facilities, some good people (some bad ones too)
>>
>> Then why the heck did you join the club. Buy your kid another pair of
>> shoes instead. It amazes me how a few people can control your life.
>> Tell the grumpy old men to buzz off or F off what ever you prefer....
>> they usually will.
>what amazes me is your reply, as far as telling people to 'F' off, that's
not
>me, I don't stay away from the club just because of a certain few, that's
just
>part of it. I have friends who don't like it either due to certain rules,
some
>of the people, too far to drive, aren't willing to spend $50 to join the
club,
> aren't willing to spend $50 to join the AMA, etc...
>
>
>> If you join a club and use the facilities it only seems fair that you
Joe Baccellieri
Much of what you say about how clubs/organizations are run is very true but
to say that those who do all the work are the power elite and that they
cause all the bulls***t is a Crock! I guess the workers are suppose to
continue doing all the work while the freeloaders just waltz in and use
(many times abuse) the facilities that have been provided to them. And if
heaven forbid the workers should say something you consider them the power
elite!
I think it's attitudes like yours that are the real problem!
Joe (The 38 year old) Baccellieri
Howard McCollister wrote in message <3550A7...@uslink.net>...
>In any organization or hobby club, there are people who simply pay their
>dues and there are those who do the majority of the work. And it always
>seems that the latter group complains about the former group. I've been
>in both groups. Eventually, the complaining by the worker bees gets to
>be so prevalent that the non-worker bees get tired of the bullshit. They
>can either stay, and suffer the ongoing wrath of the club's power elite
>(as mirrored in some the the responses in this thread), or they can do
>what many of us do; quit and form another kinder/gentler club, or fly by
>themselves in a hayfield or public park or off a road etc. etc. etc.
>
>I note that many of the outraged, self-righteous responses in this
>thread are from people well-known in the hobby, and/or with low AMA
>numbers. I deduce that there is a strong liklihood that these people
>tend to be members of the "power elite". I suspect that they don't have
>to put up with the bullshit; they cause it.
>
Erich Freymann
Someone else quoted this...I just wanted to ask...
Why support an organization that doesn't do anything?
I'm refering to the IMAA. I have yet to see an IMAA
sanctioned event. I don't mean to say that they don't
exist, but what's all the hub-bub about the IMAA?
I see all the ads proclaiming "IMAA legal!!"
I say, "who gives a shit?" I just like big airplanes.
:^)
So, anyways....
> Not all of us are retired. Some of us work for a living and have young kids.
...
> hand.) AMA, well I don't mind the $50 a year, I suppose they do something for
> our hobby, right? As for club support, I fly with a friend. Never even flew at
> the club field. Too many: rules (some are with merit others are not), grumpy
> old men, etc... etc....
Ahh, this is sooo true. Some of the retirees raise a fit about us
able-bodied young-uns not participating in club maintenance days
and such. They're retired, we're not, and have a busy life such
as a young-un should if he's doin his part for society. Personally,
I'm active duty Air Force, and maintain an F-15D on a full-time
basis. I also work the swing shift, so rarely make meetings.
I'm sorry, but I pay my dues like everyone else, pay my AMA like
MOST everyone else, and pay my dues to the country on a routine
basis. So, if you choose to call me a free-loader, then so be it.
As far as I know, there are no free-loaders in this hobby. Once
you spend the cash on an airplane, radio, motor, and all
associated crap to fly...you paid your dues to the support of
the hobby. Without the patronage of hobbyists, this hobby would
cease to exist.
> As far as the freeloader comment, some of us just want to fly. Just because we
> buy a model airplane doesn't mean we have the time or that we even want to
> devote ourselves to this hobby, I got a family. They come first, not some
> club. Too bad people like Bill and Red think that because you own a plane you
> should join a club, pay AMA, cut the grass, become a club officer, etc...
> Remember, for some it's only a HOBBY, others, well.......
It'll be a cold day in hell when someone tells me how I should
spend my time with my hobby. I have never seen people get so worked
up over a bunch of toys. I don't care what anyone thinks, this
hobby is about toys, plain and simple. Nothing we do in this hobby
will change the future of the nation, or feed the poor.
To the "ole farts"...get real.
Erich
aka
Freeloader.
Erich Freymann
Howard McCollister wrote:
>
> Some people just want to fly their airplanes, and some enjoy the
> politics of being in the command structure of a local (or national)
> club. To each his own. Whatever it takes to enjoy as many aspects of
> one's chosen hobby as possible. But the self-righteousness and finger
> pointing is really rather tiring, and ultimately self-defeating if the
> idea is to have a group of people united in a common goal.
>
> Howard McCollister
> AMA 614409
Ahh...Howard...you take the words from my mouth...
Here, here!
I believe in a little work to promote the club, when feasable.
One club here requires you to mow the grass once a year.
That's no big deal. My club is on an Air Force base, on an
abandoned runway. The main runway section was re-surfaced
a few years ago, thanks to the donations of a few members.
They had the means, which I did not. However, my dues are
partly going to pay for the sealing of the runway. It does
require a little give and take to be in a club, but a good
club should give more than it takes. It's not up to each
individual to give to the club more than the club gives back
to them.
Food for thought...
Erich
Kevin Kline
Erich Freymann wrote:
> It'll be a cold day in hell when someone tells me how I should
> spend my time with my hobby. I have never seen people get so worked
> up over a bunch of toys. I don't care what anyone thinks, this
> hobby is about toys, plain and simple. Nothing we do in this hobby
> will change the future of the nation, or feed the poor.
>
> To the "ole farts"...get real.
>
> Erich
> aka
> Freeloader.
Funny you should say that Erich. Being Air Force I would have thought
you would know about the UAV programs out there. Much of their flight
technology comes directly from this hobby. Granted, now that they have
government funding their technology has been able to surpass ours but,
you can still find foam wings covered in resin and glass, servos you
would recognize, control horns, receivers and transmitters. All of it
and more quite familar stuff. If one would only look!
K. Kline
USAF (Ret)
Wb4guk
In article <35514C...@sprintmail.com>, Erich Freymann
<eri...@sprintmail.com> writes:
>It'll be a cold day in hell when someone tells me how I should
>spend my time with my hobby. I have never seen people get so worked
>up over a bunch of toys. I don't care what anyone thinks, this
>hobby is about toys, plain and simple. Nothing we do in this hobby
>will change the future of the nation, or feed the poor.
>
>To the "ole farts"...get real.
>
>Erich
>aka
>Freeloader.
>
>
Erich,
Just to change the subject slightly. I will take exception to your last
paragraph.
This hobby is the reason I had the knowledge to spent 30 years at IBM working
with automation, robotics and computers. It is still the reason I am in
business now for myself and still keeping my family off of the welfare rolls
and paying taxes to help others that are in poverty and BTW to support the
Airforce where you work! When do I get to fly my F15D?
Would I still be here if not for the hobby? Yes, but I would have not made near
the money and paid the taxes that I have.
This hobby/(vocation for some) among all other things contribute to the welfare
of all, don't sell it short!
An "ole fart" that is real
Dan
Dan Thompson (AMA 32873 IMAA 20735 EAA 60974)
A good landing is no accident!
Guy Fuller
Welp, Tom you just made this thread ugly to say the least,
congratulations, I was wondering when one of "YOU" would start in. I'm
outta here so you can cuss your rear off. Get a life.
swi...@aamu.edu
>
> Funny you should say that Erich. Being Air Force I would have thought
> you would know about the UAV programs out there. Much of their flight
> technology comes directly from this hobby. Granted, now that they have
> government funding their technology has been able to surpass ours but,
> you can still find foam wings covered in resin and glass, servos you
> would recognize, control horns, receivers and transmitters. All of it
> and more quite familar stuff. If one would only look!
>
> K. Kline
> USAF (Ret)
Other way around, I don't think that RC modelers invented velcro and then NASA
started using it. Same thing for alot of our equipment we take for granted.
Some guy at your local hobby shop didn't invent the RC radio, out tiny
receivers, or the airplane.....
swi...@aamu.edu
> You act as if you are the only person who flies RC who must juggle between
> work, kids and all the other responsibilities of life. I have five children
> and a sixth on the way, I too have very little free time and would love to
> spend all of it flying RC. Unfortunately we sometimes have to make
> sacrifices to do what is right! And volunteering some of your precious free
> time to help maintain the facilities that YOU use is the right thing.
don't use them, if you bothered to read the whole post you would know that
> can try to justify your actions in your own mind but that doesn't mean you
> are right.
works both ways...
> If we all had your attitude there would be very few (if any)
> flying fields or clubs and then what would you do?
same thing I do now, self taught, fly with friends in the stix...
> The fact is you want to
> enjoy the amenities that are provided by people who have sacrificed their
> time and labor. You think you can justify your actions by saying your time
> is more valuable (that's what your message implies) than the others members
> of your club.
not more valuable (that's how you took it), just less of it...
> I agree with the original poster who labeled you a freeloader! You could
> volunteer some of your precious free time the key is you don't want to!
once again, if you bothered to READ, you would know they were not talking
to/about me, I was responding to a post that Bill wrote labeling those that do
not volunteer in their local clubs as freeloaders. I thought that was a broad
brush he was using, just because you don't volunteer, ah nevermind, go back
and read the original post for yourself.....
Clubs are good, so on and so forth, if you have time volunteer, if you don't
then beware, you are a freeloader and part of some mysterious 'problem'.
People like the one that I am replying to could be labeled as the same.....
Like I heard someone say, if volunteering is such a problem then REQUIRE IT in
the club by-laws......nah don't do that, then my field out in the stix
that I fly at would be too crowded then....
swi...@aamu.edu
>A club is group of modelers who band to gether to fly and talk planes.
yep that's what I thought....
> are that we all pitch in to help so that the dues aren't $200. Yep, you are
> one of the problems.
> You must expect someone else to do the work. $50
> not rent land, lay asphalt, mow grass and maintain the field.
there's that mysterious problem again, people like you think that if you don't
volunteer for every event, mow the grass, serve on the board, attend all the
meetings, etc..., then that makes YOU a problem (noticed I didn't say THE)
>Looks like you should belong to a Golf club instead.. JIMSHAW
don't like golf
Jagdwaffe
>From: wb4...@aol.com
>It is still the reason I am in
>business now for myself and still keeping my family off of the welfare rolls
>and paying taxes to help others that are in poverty and BTW to support the
>Airforce where you work! When do I get to fly my F15D?
Hey Erich! He gets to fly his f-15 as soon as he come to the base and mowes
the yard and repaves the runway!
________________________________________________________________________
Fliegen ist nicht der größte Thrill, Landung ist.
Joe Baccellieri
If that's the case then I apologize to you but, who ever the original poster
was then it is he I would consider the freeloader :-). The thread has
gotten so long and off the beaten path that it's difficult and confusing to
follow it in it's entirety. Again, I apologize for responding to the post
as if it were you who made the original comments. To the original poster, I
stand by my remarks!
Joe Baccellieri
swi...@aamu.edu wrote in message <6isgmk$pf2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Stephen
Erich Freymann <eri...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
A club should be able to accommodate all types. From those that
only want to fly, to those that want to be involved in the running of
the club. It can be structured easily for this in the rules, as well
as the club membership dues.
There is nothing wrong with a person who only wants to fly off the
site, and give nothing back to the club in the way of volunteering,
extra work, etc. If the club rules say nothing about required
"volunteer" work, and the member pays his dues, he isn't really
a freeloader. If the club rules say nothing about a member having
to hold a director/officers position, they he isn't really freeloading.
Volunteering for work is just that, volunteering. It isn't required, it
isn't expected. If that's not true, put it in the rules what's expected
of them. Then if they don't 'volunteer', call them freeloaders and
don't renew their membership. But don't call them freeloaders because
they don't put in the same amount of work others do, especially
when its not expected of them.
Can you image a club with 120 members having 110 officers and
directors, and only 10 freeloaders? I certainly won't be joining that
one. Talk about politics!!
Stephen
Stephen
"Joe Baccellieri" <jb...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Image a club with 10 members. Those top 10 that do all the work. The
club is now rid of all those freeloaders that did nothing but fly, and let
these 10 people do all the work.
Bill says, "Ok. We got rid of those freeloaders. Now its only us workers.
Its going to be an excellent year!".
2 months go by. Things are looking great. At the next meeting, and
conversation starts.
Ted, the treasurer says, "Well, its dues time. Lets settle up, and see what
we got." His calculator warms up. "Whats, this? On shit!", he says.
John speaks up, "Whats wrong?".
Ted, busy working on the calculator, "10 members at $30 for dues, thats
$300! How are we going to run our club on $300?".
Harry turns and starts getting interested, "Our expenses last year were
around $3,000. I guess we will just have to raise the membership fees".
"I'm not going to do all the work, AND pay $300 per year, are you crazy!",
Richard yells. A few others agree with Richard.
"Well, if we don't, we might loose the field. We have a lease agreement, as
well as the mandatory insurance by the landowner. We need to pay for the
tractor to mow the runway, the paint and wood to maintain the gazebo,...",
Harry spews out the list of expenses.
"What if we get new members? If we can find another 50 members, the dues
can be reduced to $60 per person. If you can get 100 members, the dues
would be reduced to $30 per person.", Ted reasons.
George, always quietly sitting in the back of the room during meetings,
offers his opinion. "What, you mean freeloaders? Add 100 freeloaders? What
can they possibly bring to the club besides the money to cover our
expenses?"
Erich Freymann
Wb4guk wrote:
> Erich,
> This hobby is the reason I had the knowledge to spent 30 years at IBM working
> business now for myself and still keeping my family off of the welfare rolls
> and paying taxes to help others that are in poverty and BTW to support the
> Airforce where you work! When do I get to fly my F15D?
Well, don't go on thinking that people in the Military don't pay
taxes, cause we do...just like everyone else. I pay for the F-15
and welfare just as much as you do, so don't get holier-than-thou.
Besides, you can fly it after I do...I'm the one that puts all the
damn work into the thing... :^)
> Would I still be here if not for the hobby? Yes, but I would have not made near
> the money and paid the taxes that I have.
I'm not saying that the hobby doesn't play an important role in OUR
lives. It does. I mean to point out that it doesn't mean a load of
beans to those outside the hobby. We have spent millions trying to
educate the public, and recruit them into the hobby, but it still
remains that the AMA only has some 200,000 members, if I'm correct.
Out of 350 million, that's a pretty elite group.
Why am I explaining all this..this is no fun...I'm here in the
hobby to fly my Extra and helicopter and have a blast, not preach
the morals and ethics of a club membership. I'm in a club, cause
I have to be. I also like interacting with other modelers about
airplanes and flying things.
> An "ole fart" that is real
Congradulations on staying sane ;^)
Erich
Erich Freymann
Jagdwaffe wrote:
> the yard and repaves the runway!
heheh...
Hey Jag....when the heck are ya getting out to the field?
Thinking of flying out at Navarre on Sunday, if yer interested.
Erich