[long] acrylic painting, HELP!
Diez-Mon
Ok, I've read every article and email I could find about painting with
acrylics... But I can't seem to get it consistently right! I'm using an
older Badger 200 internal mix brush and an air tank that I fill
periodically.
I've tried pressure from 20-40psi, tried using ModelFlex right out of the
bottle, and Pollyscale Acrylic but I never seem to get consistant results.
I've tried thinning with water, washing fluid, and alcohol.
The main problem I have is coverage. I have to give it about 10 coats
before the paint will have a solid look. Also, the first coat doesn't seem
to want to adhere to the plastic. Then when I do get the coverage "thick"
enough, the paint has a kind of speckled look, not smooth and even. I'm
trying to do thin coats, because I don't want to end up with any dripping.
If I thin it to the point where it flows well, it's just too thin to cover,
but any thicker and it doesn't flow through the brush properly, should try a
different tip? a medium spray tip perhaps?
How quickly do acrylics go bad? I have a bottle that I used about a year
ago, and today, the color seems to be different! check it out here:
http://www.citilink.com/~diez-mon/images/junk/AUT_2429.JPG That should be GN
Big Sky Blue on the F45. The B unit turned out ok, which I painted about a
year ago, but the F45 looks like a completely different color! what the??
I bought a bottle of Model Flex MILW orange, and it seems to be much thicker
than other bottles I've bought, anyway.. I had bad luck with that one too.
It wouldn't flow properly and I had to thin it a bit.
I've had pretty good luck in the past, but using the same technique doesn't
always give me the same results! I've posted the results of my attempts
today here: http://www.citilink.com/~diez-mon/images/junk
I'm at my wits end. I need some good advice here, I'm learing to hate
painting my models! :(
Thanks in advance,
Tim
demetre_argiro
>. . . . . I'm at my wits end. I need some good advice here, I'm learing to hate
>painting my models! :(
First thing, make sure that you are not trying too hard. Slow down and take a look at
what you're doing that's not working. Write it down if you have to, and think about
it. You need determine what it is that's not working and stop doing it.
Now, realize that gazillions of folks are getting perfectly fine reults with
acrylics, and then let's take it from there.
I will assume that you are painting plastic, so, the first thing you must do is make
sure that the model is clean. Not just LOOKS clean, but really IS clean; free from
all oils and silicones as well as visible dirt. Wash the model in hot soapy water
(if possible), rinse it with isopropyl alcohol followed by a hot water rinse.
Blow-dry if you have one.
Get some airbrush medium at your local art supply store and thin the paint about 30%
with it. Do not use water, alcohol or any other thinner- even if the manufacturer
says it's OK. Airbrush medium is basically thinned paint with no coloring in it
(vehicle) it acts like paint, it sprays like paint, it mixes with paint and, most
importantly of all, it STICKS like paint. You cannot say that for any of the other
"homeopathic" remedies.
When you get real good at this THEN you can, and should, experiment with all kinds of
stuff, but right now let's get a good paint job.
For the present, stick with a gray primer and prime the model. I use Testor's PLA
from the spray can, but I don't use the can. Punch a hole in the top and let the gas
out, then pour the paint into a bottle for which you have a cap. Throw the can away
and spray it through your airbrush. You will need paint thinner to clean up after
this one. If you cannot use the Testor's, at least use some kind of primer. Do not
thin the primer more than 15% if you use the acrylic.
Apply the primer in several light coats and blow-dry between each if you can.
If your paint is more than a year old, or if you are getting "sandpapering", throw it
away and get some fresh.
Let the model dry and cure for at least 12 hours, then wash it in hot soapy water (do
not scrub) finishing with a hot rinse. Spray your first color coat thinned with
airbrush medium as you did the primer; three or four light coats, blow-drying between
each. If you are using more than one color apply masking then respray with the base
color and let it dry before applying the second color. Any bleed-thru will be the
proper color and so won't matter.
If you do it the way I have written, I am sure that you will get a good result. After
you have had a few successes you will want to modify your technique to better suit
your own ways of doing things. All of us who paint have individual ways of doing it,
but the basics are the same, no matter what the technique.
Mark Mathu
> Then when I do get the coverage "thick"
> enough, the paint has a kind of speckled look, not smooth and even.
Kind of an eggshell texture? I've had this problem with ModelFlex paint also.
Using a lower pressure (I was using 30 psi, now using 22 psi) and moving the
airbrush closer to the work took care of that problem.
When they reviewed Modelflex paint in June '96, Model Railroader recognized
the problem of poor finish when spray painted from too far away. As a matter
of fact, they used a Badger 200 brush at 15 psi pressure for the review.
Wolf Kirchmeir
=> Also, the first coat doesn't seem
=>to want to adhere to the plastic.
Make sure you wash the plastic parts (even befroe you assemble the kit.) Use
dishwashing detergent, rinse throughly in clean water, and air-dry. The mold
release agent left on theplastic parts will not allow the acrylic to stick
properly to the plastic.
You could also fog the model with a primer -- a very very light application
from a distance far enough so that the paint is almost dry when it hits the
plastic. This will provide "tooth" the acrylic paint.
Wolf Kirchmeir
If you didn't want to go to Chicago, why did you get on the train?
(Garrison Keillor)
TOM
Does the problem come from the paint partially drying before it hits the
surface???
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
Mark Mathu
> surface???
That's the impression I get.
Jonny Barnstorf
something wrong. I start painting... paint is coming out ok... and then it
starts to taper off... and then no more paint. Open the valve a little more
and it happens again. I have to close the valve and start the cycle over
again. I was painting on bare plastic and the stuff just seems to bead up. I
tried pulling further back and the paint gets stippley, move closer and it
pools. Man this stuff is driving me crazy. I'm glad I didn't start on a
model or I would have ruined it.
Well, after fighting with this stuff my airbrush finally gave up. All
clogged with that damned paint. I hate it, I'm so mad I could spit!! And I
didn't even get clean coverage, all patchy because I could never keep a
constant flow of paint. So is this paint any good through an air brush or is
it for brush painting only? I tried 10psi, 15psi, 20psi, 22psi. The only way
I could get a constant feed was to open the valve wide open. You wouldn't
believe the beautiful blobs of paint I got on my project. ( I am glad you
all can't hear my cursing!!! ) I'm using a Badger 200 with a medium head.
Maybe I should just use my Campbel Housefeld and a garden hose to hose down
my model with this paint. (more swearing)..
I would even considering jerking around with a whole bunch of ultra thin
coats if I could just get this stuff to stop clogging my brush. Does that
retarder work? How much do you need? How long does it take the paint to dry
with retarder. Truth be known if AccuPaint wasn't so hard to get I never
would have touched that Badger stuff. ( I painted an autorack with accuflex
and I had to strip that down because the glossy black beaded up on the
plastic. I managed to fake my way throught that project and thought I'd
never have to air brush accuflex again ) I wish there were some other
alternative besides Floquil, that takes forever to dry...
Jb
(swearing like a miner)
Trainman
use, and much more forgiving.
I really miss the "old formula" floquil (dried in 10 minutes to a beautiful
finish), but the new stuff is useable.
Too bad the epa made them change it.
Don
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Jonny Barnstorf <ban...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:JgNG6.3606$dH5.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
S C Sillato
paint at least 30psi, I use a Paasche H medium or large tip at 35psi 3)I
use the retarder; a couple drops doubles the drying time(read the label) 4)
Badger has an instruction sheet for shooting Modelflex, ask for it and
they'll send it for free 4) a VERY clean model is a MUST with water based
paint, much more than with solvent paints.
I hope I helped.
Jonny Barnstorf (ban...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: I've just had a nightmare evening painting with model flex. I must be doing
--
Steve Sillato
Forty is the old age of youth; fifty the youth of old age.
Booker1067
already, but better to touch all the bases than leave something out.
#1-Before you start your building project did you clean all the parts with warm
water and dish soap, scrubbing it down with an old tooth brush to remove
moulding oils and other chemicals.
#2-did you wear latex or other type of rubber gloves during the building of the
project to keep oils and dirt from your own skin from contaminating the
plastic.
#3-for painting with water based paints I'm experimenting with some painting
projects with good results so far, I'm spraying Model flex at 32-to-35 PSI and
thinning it at 30% with Liquitex Airbrush Medium, the biggest draw back to the
Model Flex is when you think you have it mixed properly, go back and mix it
again it seems to not want to mix with the pigmants in the paint. last with
water based pain I've also noticed that the regular distance you would hold
your air brush away from your project reduce it by half, if using solvent based
paint you'd hold your brush about 6 inches away from the project, with water
based I'd go about 3 to 4 inches.
#4- last if your going to try these ideas work on an old piece of rolling stock
to get it down pat, everyone has old rolling stock sitting around to practice
on, good luck.
Tony Burzio
Jonny Barnstorf wrote:
> Well, after fighting with this stuff my airbrush finally gave up. All
> clogged with that damned paint.
Latex paint is wonderful. All you have
to realize is that it's concentrated in the
bottle. Add thinner (water actualy works,
but there are more expensive alternates :-)
to a very small amount of paint. Use a small
Dixie cup and put in enough paint to cover
the lower line where the bottom is attached
(not much). Use a second Dixie cup to
measure in one or two drips of water.
Swish it around to mix. The correct mix
has the same viscosity as chocolate
milk. What you are trying for is that
magic mix where is is just thinned a
bit less than when the paint beads
water on the model. Any less thinning
and it'll clog up your spray gun faster
than fast setting concrete! :-)
Oh yeah, if the paint is all globbed up in
the bottom, go back to your hobby shop
and tell them they lat your paint get too hot
in the back room and it's ruined (Vulcanized
actually)...
Tony Burzio
San Diego, CA
Jonny Barnstorf
1) add thinner to a very small amount of paint
2) add 1 or 2 drips of water to the paint
these are kind of contradictory.
Assuming I want chocolate milk, then there should be more paint than water
correct? Can you give me some sort of ratio to start from? I want it to a
point to just before the ratio that would cause it to bead like pure water.
That sounds pretty thin. I'm assuming then that I will need to put on a
number of coats of paint. Otherwise I'll get paint blobs. Will I get a level
coat or sippling?
How about PSI, does it matter? I've heard that someone said the paint
inventor says 30psi and Model Railroader says 15psi. So which is right? The
MR review of the paint realy discuraged me, esp when they indicated how
quickly it will gum up in a brush. I've seen that in action, apparently so
have you.
With Accupaint I know it works in the range 20-30 psi. Dilute it as much as
you like or not at all. If it gums up the machine, simply running thinner
through it (or even paint) opens it up again (or soaking in thinner if
completely plugged). Dries a little longer than modelflex but a lot faster
than Floquil. Another trick, you can restore a totaly dried jar of paint by
adding thinner. And if you muck up the paint job you can strip it (although
you have to be careful on Kato shells as it will melt the plastic).
At this point, I can't agree that latex paint is wonderful. I can't even
agree that it's useful. However if I am given some successful tips on how to
use this stuff, I am willing to have an open mind. Somebody's getting it to
work right? anybody? some help here? I realy like the color of the paints.
Nice and vibrant.
Riddle me this :
I brush painted the inside of a platic tube with some modelflex. Looked
great wet, the color was opaque. However when it dried, there was only paint
on the bottom of the inside of the tube. All the pigment had been pulled
down by gravity. Yes I mixed it, very much. So, what did I do wrong? Don't
indicate that I should use a primer because after I let the first coat dry,
I tried it again and the paint did the same thing (just covered a little
better). I had to brush the paint on and immediatly use a hair dryer to set
the paint in place. Thats unacceptable. Plus the jar say right on it that no
primer is necessary even on plastic.
I know Poly S sometimes needs 2 coats to get full coverage, but at least the
paint stays in place.
things that make you go hmmmm
Jb
"Tony Burzio" <tbu...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3AECECB0...@att.net...
Stefan
>How about PSI, does it matter? I've heard that someone said the paint
>inventor says 30psi and Model Railroader says 15psi. So which is right?
Don't shoot this paint with anything less than 30PSI.
That's just my opinion but it seems to work for me.
cheers
Stefan
Tony Burzio
Jonny Barnstorf wrote:
> Forgive me for sounding dense but you say...
> 1) add thinner to a very small amount of paint
> 2) add 1 or 2 drips of water to the paint
> these are kind of contradictory.
No, I use very little paint at a time, so a couple
of drips is a LOT! If you are using the glass bottle,
toss it in the trash. Only use the paint cup!
> Assuming I want chocolate milk, then there should be more paint than water
Yes. Much. The water is the thinner. I only use
the painting cup (thimble) to paint, and only
mix up two thimbles at a time. This weathers
about 25 cars, or about 5 painted cars...
After weathering about 500 N scale cars, I'm on
my second bottle of dirt (dirt all across, some black
at the top corners, and just the tiniest bit of
grey along the bottom). I force eggshelling when
weathering by pulling back far too much (about
a foot) because eggshell paint (prematurely drying
paint) is the same as dull cote... Got this trick from
my GM Cavalier! :-)
> ratio that would cause it to bead like pure water.
> That sounds pretty thin. I'm assuming then that I will need to put on a
> number of coats of paint. Otherwise I'll get paint blobs. Will I get a level
> coat or sippling?
Blobs can have too culprits. One is too thick
paint. Dunk the air gun in a handy bucket
of water and press the trigger to maximum air
and paint for about a minute or two to flush the
gun and try a thinner mix. Each paint jar is a bit
different, so you have to get the hang of the viscosity
so you can match it. There are no absolutes! :-)
A bit about your paint gun. Look at the tip. There is
one hole in the middle, and a ring just outside. The
center hole is where the paiknt comes out. The ring
is where the air comes out, which both pulls the paint
forward (sucks it out), and breaks it up (atomizes it)
out in to the air. There is a removable cone that
creates these areas, and it also is the place to
concentrate your efforts in cleaning.
If you are getting spits, then you may also have paint in
the atomizer (air ring) chamber. Clean the outer cone better.
Even a very little hardned paint will cause outmeal-like blobs
to spit out of your gun. You can also slow down paint
drool into the atomizer by correctly adjusting the
tip of your sprayer to slow down the paint output. I usually get
about an dozen N scale cars for weathering from a single paint cup,
which ain't much! :-) With a double action paint gun, you
should be able to stop the paint and get air only by
pressing forward on the trigger. If not, readjust the pick
forward until you can stop the paint flow with the trigger
all the way forward...
> How about PSI, does it matter?
"You CAN steer a battleship with the props, but
first try the rudder! :-)"
It doesn't seem to matter. We use full pressure
from a Badger air compressor. I don't know
what it is, since I don't care. It IS important
that the spray gun be able to atomize water
successfully (try it with the cup filled with water).
You may have the gun so clogged up by now
this may not work. My Creschendo (Badger)
only has two places to clean: the stick around
the trigger, and the OUTSIDE of the atomizer cone
inside the spray head...
Oh yeah, you ARE using the FINE tip, right?
>
> With Accupaint I know it works in the range 20-30 psi. Dilute it as much as
> you like or not at all. If it gums up the machine, simply running thinner
> through it (or even paint)
Augh! Thinner bad in a paint gun. Thoroughly nasty
stuff, atomized toxic chemicals! I just take the
gun apart and clean the parts I mentioned with
my finger nail (the paint flakes off the metal
after a bit of worrying it... :-)
Jonny Barnstorf
Hi:
my compressor won't do over 20 psi without overheating so that's about my
max. Is your brush internal or external mix? I do believe mine is internal.
I might get an external, maybe this will keep the paint from drying until
it's actually on it's way to the mode. No, I've been using a medium tip.
Jb
"Tony Burzio" <tbu...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3AED0359...@att.net...
> It doesn't seem to matter. We use full pressure
> from a Badger air compressor. I don't know
> what it is, since I don't care. It IS important
> that the spray gun be able to atomize water
> successfully (try it with the cup filled with water).
> You may have the gun so clogged up by now
> this may not work. My Creschendo (Badger)
> only has two places to clean: the stick around
> the trigger, and the OUTSIDE of the atomizer cone
> inside the spray head...
>
> Oh yeah, you ARE using the FINE tip, right?
>
>
JHBRIGHT
Hi:
my compressor won't do over 20 psi without overheating so that's about my
max. Is your brush internal or external mix? I do believe mine is internal.
I might get an external, maybe this will keep the paint from drying until
it's actually on it's way to the mode. No, I've been using a medium tip.
Jb
>>
30 to 40 is best but you can probably spray Ok with 20 PSI if you thin the
paint a bit. Use something that will lower the surface tension such as Polly S
airbrush thinner, Liquitex Airbrush Medium, alcohol or a drop or two of
detergent. Plain water has too high surface tension and tends to make the paint
bead up. Also use an airbrush with a cone type tip. Most of the newer brushes
have them. A tip like you will find in the Badger 150 airbrush will plug up in
a minute or two with an acrylic/latex paint. If it doesn't plug up it will give
you a burst of splatter at the most unwanted time.
J. Bright
Custom-Painting By The Iron Rail
mix, this is better because the paint mixes outside the brush not inside
like the Badger 200, I know I started out with the same brush and had
all the same problems, after awhile the paint builds up inside the brush
and thats what clogs up, with the external the paint mixes outside the
body and is easier to clean.
1. Clean model in soapy dish water then rinse off, but make sure your
hands are clean as well.
2. Use poly- scale paints, if you choose to use badger paints it would
be wise to use the badger extender to mix with your paint because badger
dries faster then poly-scale.
always give the model a good cover of poly scale undercoat lt. gray #
414134.
and when your thinning your paint it would be wise to use the Poly S A/B
thinner # 556008.
Some people use a product called Golden or liquid tex everybody has
their own preference but you have to experiment and keep practicing.
3. When you are spraying with acrylics you have to use a large tip all
the times because the water molecules are larger then the solvent base
paints, so naturally WATER LARGE TIP!
3. Next spray 6 to 8 inches from model going one way and use 32 lbs . of
pressure because you have to use higher pressure with water based
paints, but you have to experiment with the variables, there is another
way for you to see it visually go buy Model Railroader's VHS tape on
airbrushing with acrylic paints it will help. Good Luck!
Soo-Line-Mike
P.S.
I'm the SooLineMike that posts messages to the group, this is just my
business addy.
Mark Mathu
> the times because the water molecules are larger then the solvent base
> paints, so naturally WATER LARGE TIP!
That's interesting... I would have suspected that H2-O molecules would be
smaller than just about whatever hydrocarbon molecules make up the solvents
used with enamel paints.
john a dalton
>Hi:
>
>my compressor won't do over 20 psi without overheating so that's about my
>max. Is your brush internal or external mix? I do believe mine is internal.
>I might get an external, maybe this will keep the paint from drying until
>it's actually on it's way to the mode. No, I've been using a medium tip.
>
>Jb
.....some compressors use oil for lubrication.....sounds like you're
out of oil.....it would take about 5 minutes to get to say, 20 psi,
and overheat.....most shut down if they overheat (is there a small
thermocouple on the side of the cylinder ?)..... :))
.....also, your pressure regulator may be shut off completely.....if
it is, the compressor would overheat immediately, and the compressor
would show about 20 psi....the pressure regulator may be broken as
well.....some compressors have 2 regulators, one visible, one
not....these require a technician.... :))
.....also, i've seen compressors made from old refrigeration
units....20 psi was all they'd do.....good for air mattresses and
beach balls, but not for painting....does your compressor have at
least a 5 gallon tank ?..... :))
......big john..... :))
Kennedy
> That's interesting... I would have suspected that H2-O molecules would be
> smaller than just about whatever hydrocarbon molecules make up the
> solvents used with enamel paints.
A mechanic showed me what happens when you mix water and gas in a jar, then
pour it onto the concrete. The water beaded up, while the gas spread all
over. Also, hydrostatic cling might be more pronounced with a fine tip.
Kennedy
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Juhana Siren
> A mechanic showed me what happens when you mix water and gas in a jar, then
> pour it onto the concrete. The water beaded up, while the gas spread all
That follows from water having a strong surface tension, which also
explains why hydrocarbon-based solvents are easier to atomize.
--
*** Juhana Siren *** Juhana...@oulu.fi *** OH8HTH (2 m, 70 cm) ***
///////////////////// END OF TEXT - STOP READING ////////////////////
Diez-Mon
I'm glad to see I'm not the ONLY one having trouble here ;)
Tim
--
"A gleaming alloy aircar shooting toward me two lanes wide?"
Look me in the eye and tell me that doesn't rock!
http://www.citilink.com/~diez-mon/rr.html
"Diez-Mon" <diez...@citi-link.com> wrote in message
news:rmCG6.20081$9f2.1...@ruti.visi.com...
> Hey everyone.. let's bond together now and help 'ol diezmon! ;)
>
> Ok, I've read every article and email I could find about painting with
> acrylics... But I can't seem to get it consistently right! I'm using an
> older Badger 200 internal mix brush and an air tank that I fill
> periodically.
[SNIPPED]
Norm Dresner
news:16671-3AE...@storefull-102.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
[SNIP]
>
> 3. When you are spraying with acrylics you have to use a large tip all
> the times because the water molecules are larger then the solvent base
> paints, so naturally WATER LARGE TIP!
>
Well, no! It's not the size of the molecules! First, the molecules of
water are probably smaller than the solvent, but even if they're not,
they're miniscule: less than a nanometer (that's a billionth of a meter)!
What is important in spray painting is the surface tension of the liquid
which determines the size of the droplets.
IIRC, water's surface tension is lower so the droplet size is larger (it may
be the other way around, I don't have my live-in chemist handy).
Yes, you need to use the large tip. But for the droplet size.
Norm
john a dalton
....that's why when you airbrush with mashed potatoes, the more butter
the better..... :))
.....big johhann....friend of Usofty.... :))
....ps.....that's a potential commercial, the thing about the
butter..... :))
Michael Usoff
Sour cream makes good thinner for mashed potatoes!! UMMM :>)) Mike U.
Jonny Barnstorf
I have a Badger 200, same nozzle as the 150. I think I'll get an external
mix Pasche this weekend. I've thinned out the paint and surprise surprise
I'm getting better results. The paint isn't drying immediately and sometimes
I can get the paint to keep going for a long time. I just can't stop & start
in short bursts. Once the paint comes out ok, I just hold the trigger down
until I'm done. Still fading off after a while though. And I have to have
a higher volume coming out the brush than I need. I won't be able to do any
intricate painting yet (ie something like a crane boom). I'll try the other
airbrush mediums and see what happens. I'm actually beginning to believe I
can get this paint to work, with all the help I'm getting...
I've experienced the paint splatter (even with AccuPaint, I think it might
be the nozzle). Thats an extremely unpleasant surprise when you're getting a
beautiful finish on a model...
Jb
"JHBRIGHT" <jhbr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010501001552...@ng-cr1.aol.com...
Jonny Barnstorf
it to get a constant pressure of 20 psi. I was getting 30 psi with the valve
almost closed but the compressor shut down fairly quickly. I can't see any
place to oil the thing. I'll scrounge around and look for the operating
manual. The air line goes from the compressor to two air filters then to a
reasonably large air tank. The filters aren't plugged as I can blow through
them easily (although there is a tiny bit of oil in the first one).
Jb
"john a dalton" <jape...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3aee8ad5....@news.mindspring.com...
Jonny Barnstorf
then I could spray some paint on, and nudge the drying process with a little
air. Or custom blow the desired air/paint mix.
Jb
"Custom-Painting "By The Iron Rail"" <Iron...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16671-3AE...@storefull-102.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Fritz Milhaupt
>
> jhbr...@aol.com (JHBRIGHT) wrote:
>
> >Hi:
> >
> >my compressor won't do over 20 psi without overheating so that's about my
> >max. Is your brush internal or external mix? I do believe mine is internal.
> >I might get an external, maybe this will keep the paint from drying until
> >it's actually on it's way to the mode. No, I've been using a medium tip.
> >
> >Jb
> .....also, i've seen compressors made from old refrigeration
> units....20 psi was all they'd do.....good for air mattresses and
> beach balls, but not for painting....does your compressor have at
> least a 5 gallon tank ?..... :))
>
> ......big john..... :))
The compressor I've used for painting for the past decade or so came out
of a really old photocopier. It'll do a maximum of 27 psi, so I've
stuck with using my old stockpile of solvent-formula Floquil. That 27
psi wasn't enough to get even vaguely reasonable results with acrylics.
-fm
Webmaster of Rails on Wheels' web site, at: http://www.railsonwheels.com
The e-mail addresses in this message bounce to frustrate harvestbots.
See my web sites for my actual e-mail address.
Trainman
Don
--
don.de...@prodigy.net
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john a dalton <jape...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3aee8ad5....@news.mindspring.com...
S C Sillato
One other tip I forgot. Use a screen on the pick up tube(or a piece of
old panty hose held over the tube with a rubber band). In case there are
any big pieces of paint that might clog the tip......
Jonny Barnstorf (ban...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: Hi:
: Jb
: >
Mark Mathu
>>> 3. When you are spraying with acrylics you have to
>>> use a large tip all the times because the water
>>> molecules are larger then the solvent base paints,
>>> so naturally WATER LARGE TIP!
>>
>> That's interesting... I would have suspected that
>> H2-O molecules would be smaller than just about
>> whatever hydrocarbon molecules make up the solvents
>> used with enamel paints.
>
> A mechanic showed me what happens when you mix water
> and gas in a jar, then pour it onto the concrete.
> The water beaded up, while the gas spread all over.
> Also, hydrostatic cling might be more pronounced with
> a fine tip.
I'd have to agree with Juhana Siren that this sure sounds more like a surface
tension problem and NOT a water molecule issue. I'd guess that the nozzle tip
has easily got to be larger than the size of the molecules by a factor of a
thousand to one (a quick search of the web indicated that water molecules are
about 0.00000005 inches in diameter).
Mark Mathu
> >What is important in spray painting is the surface tension of the liquid
> >which determines the size of the droplets.
>
> ....that's why when you airbrush with mashed potatoes, the more butter
> the better..... :))
Is mashed potatoes a Modelflex color?
I knew they made CSX Blueberry, Southern Sylvanilla Green, Reefer White
Chocolate, and D&RGW Orange.
mm
paint thinned about the consistency of 2% milk, and with the work 3" to 6"
away...I know it's pretty far from the norm but I've had good luck with this
technique...admittedly mainly with aircraft models....
mike
"JHBRIGHT" <jhbr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010501001552...@ng-cr1.aol.com...
> <<
Mark Mathu
> The compressor I've used for painting for the past decade or so came out
> of a really old photocopier. It'll do a maximum of 27 psi, so I've
> stuck with using my old stockpile of solvent-formula Floquil. That 27
> psi wasn't enough to get even vaguely reasonable results with acrylics.
What type of airbrush are you using?
I was having problems with my Aztek A320 giving a rough finish with Modelflex
at 30 psi, but after I cut back to around 22 psi and things seem fine.
--
Mark Mathu
The Green Bay Route: http://gb_route.tripod.com/
Bilfrazier
to all the trouble of using water based paints rather than solvent based paints
in an airbrush.
Can anyone enlighten me?
Bill Frazier
john a dalton
....i use water-based acrylics at 32 psi in a Paasche airbrush....i
thin with distilled water in a 70% paint / 30% water mix....i get
excellent results....your mileage may vary..... :))
.....the best car painter i ever saw worked in a bakery.....the worst
i ever saw worked for a dealership.....both died at 54 from breathing
solvents..... :))
......big john..... :))
.....big john.... :))
Fritz Milhaupt
I've preferred using the solvent-based paints, but I recently discovered
that no matter how well I vent the spray booth, if my wife's in the
house while I'm painting with Floquil (or even cleaning up with it) she
will have an asthma attack.
It looks like I either need to get a compressor capable of more than 30
psi and switch to acrylics, or find another building where I can paint.
Fritz Milhaupt
>
> Fritz Milhaupt wrote...
>
> > The compressor I've used for painting for the past decade or so came out
> > of a really old photocopier. It'll do a maximum of 27 psi, so I've
> > stuck with using my old stockpile of solvent-formula Floquil. That 27
> > psi wasn't enough to get even vaguely reasonable results with acrylics.
>
> What type of airbrush are you using?
>
> I was having problems with my Aztek A320 giving a rough finish with Modelflex
> at 30 psi, but after I cut back to around 22 psi and things seem fine.
I was using my trusty Badger 350. It seemed to work well enough when I
took it too a buddy's place and tried the same experiment at about 32
psi.
S C Sillato
: After reading this and other related threads, I just wonder why anyone would go
: Bill Frazier
Yeah. I'm allergic to most solvents. I've been using acrylics since
Polly S was introduced. Don't know what all the fuss is about. Artists
have been useing acrylics for years.
It's not better or worse, just DIFFERENT. You can't use the same
techniques for acrylics and solvent based and vice versa. I've seen some
pretty bad paint jobs with solvent paints, also....
Get Badger's brochure on Modelflex, follow their recommendations, and
you'll get good results.
BTW, much of the trouble with acrylics came from Badger's crappy quality
control on initial runs of Accuflex. Since then "acrylic bashing" has
become an art form.<g>
Gary3985
Besides the safety factor of not handling harmful solvents. The speed of
drying is a big plus to me. With Modelflex you can mask and paint another
color in 10 minutes if you use a hair dryer to cure the paint. A 3 color paint
job can be done in one hour, instead of several days.
Gary
Booker1067
wife getting upset if I paint with the solvent based tye paints, she says the
smell goes through the whole house, and there are two doors between her and the
garage. also solvenst have harmful chemicals that you can inhale or be
absorbed through the skin if they come in contact with it such as:
acetone
methyl ethyl ketone
naphtha
toluene
xylene
methyl isobutyl ketone
and on a personel note I have to look no further than my older brother who did
Auto Body Repair work for years using Dupont Paint and mixing chemicles to thin
and blend auto type paints long before it was stylish to wear a mask or protect
your skin from coming in contact with the chemicles. He is 11 years older than
me but has trouble remembering dates, phone numbers and sometimes people, you
could say he is the labratory mouse version to us modelers where we get exposed
to 1-1000th of a chemical without any problems he got exposed to 1000 times a
greater dose and got screwed up, then someone decided hey maybe people should
wear protection using this stuff and not breath it also....
Thats a good reason to go with water based paint, and still wear a protective
mask-lets all be safe out there
Mark Mathu
Here's why I use acrylics (starting with the most important):
+ Very safe - less toxic than lacquers (I'd say non-toxic, but I'm sure
someone would have a fit.). Not only the paint, but the thinner also.
+ Cleans up with soap and water (and maybe a little Windex).
+ Less annoying fumes for others in the house.
+ Cost; you gotta love those $1 bottles of Delta Ceramcoat and Apple Barrel!
And tap water is a very cheap clean-up agent.
+ When acrylics dry they won't dissolve when painting on top with weathering,
etc.
I think it's the way of the future. Like it or not, I full well suspect that
in another 20 years or so that lacquers will be much more difficult to obtain,
if at all, while the variety and ease of use of acrylics will increase. If
you're starting out airbrushing it might make a lot of sense to start out
developing your technique using the type of paint that you'll be using a
decade or two from now. If you read many of the comments from people having
troubles using acrylics it is usually from people who are making the
transition from lacquers to acrylics.
JHBRIGHT
<< Here's why I use acrylics (starting with the most important):
+ Very safe - less toxic than lacquers (I'd say non-toxic, but I'm sure
someone would have a fit.). Not only the paint, but the thinner also.
+ Cleans up with soap and water (and maybe a little Windex).
+ Less annoying fumes for others in the house.
+ Cost; you gotta love those $1 bottles of Delta Ceramcoat and Apple Barrel!
And tap water is a very cheap clean-up agent.
+ When acrylics dry they won't dissolve when painting on top with weathering,
etc. >>
All valid points--but you didn't mention the quality of the paint finish.
Acrylic/latyex paints need modification to assist with leveling and then still
tend to have an "orange peel" surface. This can happen with solvent paints too
but you can sand and polish them after they have cured for a relatively short
time. Most acrylic/latex paints don't like to have their surfaces worked for a
long time if ever. When it comes to metallic it gets worse. All that I have
tried (which is just about everything that is available in aluminum, steel and
silver) have been very grainy. Hopefully the technology of these paint will
improve because they may be all we have someday.
J. Bright
Mark Mathu
> All valid points--but you didn't mention the quality of the paint finish.
If I didn't like the finish, I wouldn't be using it.
> Acrylic/latyex paints need modification to assist with leveling and then
still
> tend to have an "orange peel" surface.
Maybe your spraying pressure of 30 to 40 psi is too great for the paint/nozzle
combination you're using, and a source of the "orange peel" surface you are
getting.
[As I previously posted last weekend, here's a photo of a recently completed
model, done completely with Modelflex -http://gb_route.tripod.com/mathu.htm.
I'm quite happy with the finish. The paint was straight from the bottle.]
JHBRIGHT
<< Maybe your spraying pressure of 30 to 40 psi is too great for the
paint/nozzle
combination you're using, and a source of the "orange peel" surface you are
getting. >>
I've tried everything from 10 to 27 PSI which is the max for my compressor.
With modification I have been able to get a relatively smooth surface which is
adequate for most but not all situations. The paint's texture I'm referring to
is most likely the result of it's surface tension along with the surface
tension of the materials we paint. This texture is something that I not only
see in my work but in everybody else's too. I know it is possible to get a very
smooth surface with certain solvent paints but don't know if it's in the cards
to do so with the acrylic/latex paints. If someone knows how to get a glass
smooth surface with these paints, without piling it on real thick, I'd very
much like to know how they do it.
J. Bright
Juhana Siren
Just though of this...
When airbrushing with acrylics, has anybody tried using something to
reduce the surface tension? Did it work?
--
*** Juhana Siren *** Juhana...@oulu.fi *** OH8HTH (2 m, 70 cm) ***
///////////////////// END OF TEXT - STOP READING ////////////////////
Urban Fredriksson
Juhana Siren <Juhana...@oulu.fi> wrote:
>When airbrushing with acrylics, has anybody tried using something to
>reduce the surface tension? Did it work?
Sure. This is something I wrote several years ago, but I
haven't changed my mind about it:
--------------------------------------
I almost exclusively use Polly-S and Tamiya acrylics.
To use them with an airbrush, I thin them with a mixture of
50% water, 50% ethanol/methanol and a very small amount of
dishwashing detergent.
I have the thinning mixture in small glass bottles with drippers.
To get the proper amount of detergent:
- put a drop of detergent in the bottle
- fill it with water, shake and empty
- repeat stage 2 two times
- fill up with 50% water and 50% ethanol
Some people have successfully used windowcleaner instead of this
mixture
Usually you have to add 40-60% thinning mixture to the paint. It
should give a very thin layer, so expect to put on several.
To decrease the drying time, you can use a microwave oven. Put a
glass of water in the oven to protect it, then put the model in
for maybe 30 seconds at half power. In this way I've managed to
put on 5 layers of paint in 20 minutes.
I have a few tins of enamels, but I use them almost only for
metallic colours.
--
Urban Fredriksson
My not quite daily weblog with
miscellaneous interesting links: http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/dm