Ebay Snipers
Dalman33
waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a complaint with
Ebay. I was high bidder on an item for 4 days only to have it literally stolen
from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
johe110
Dalman33 wrote in message <19981215180456...@ng147.aol.com>...
I could reply by saying "If you make your first bid the highest you're
willing to bid, you won't care if you're outbid by a sniper".
I've won several auctions during the last few seconds and lost several
during the same period. I'm not griping about it and I'm sure the seller
isn't either. I bid my maximum on my first bid whether I place that bid on
the first day or the last few seconds of an auction. If I'm outbid, so be
it. Somebody wanted it more than I. I just move on to the next item --
usually checking the "ending today" items to see what's ending in the next
few minutes. :) I should also mention that I've lost items sniping
because the high bidder at the time had a maximum bid higher than I was
willing to bid on that item. I don't try to outbid someone by a buck. I
bid the highest I'm willing to pay. If you do that, you won't care if
you're outbid. You'll just shake your head and mutter "Why the hell would
someone pay that much money for some used piece of equipment sold 'as-is'
from a stranger on the Internet?"
I think what upsets most people when they get sniped is the fact they
believed they had just made a great deal only to find they've been outbid
during the last few seconds. It's frustrating but it's part of the game.
With the popularity of eBay rapidly expanding, it's becoming even more
difficult to make a good deal there.
John
Steve
>
> Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping. Sniping is
> waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
> bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a complaint with
> Ebay. I was high bidder on an item for 4 days only to have it literally stolen
> from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
> computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
> If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
On the flip side of this, you should have bid the full amount that you
were willing to spend on the item. If it's "sniped", then shrug it off
as "too rich for my blood", since you already bid what you were willing
to spend on it.
--
-Steven. 2084@sgiDOTnet
MEMBER: STEEL CITY TOURING
MEMBER: CLUB H2O
GOLF III PARTS FOR SALE: http://users.sgi.net/~vwsport/parts/
PICS OF MY DUB: http://users.sgi.net/~vwsport/gti/
SPAM-O-TRON IN EFFECT!! EDIT MY EMAIL ADDRESS TO REPLY!
The following lines are for the Spambot!
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postmaster@localhost
Curt Mc
>
> Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping. Sniping is
> waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
> bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a complaint with
> Ebay. I was high bidder on an item for 4 days only to have it literally stolen
> from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
> computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
> If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
Then bid the highest amount that you are willing to pay for the item...
then the sniper's bid will fall short (and he will not have enough time
to make another bid)... It's SIMPLE - his bid has to beat your high
bid!!! If your high bid had truly been the highest you were willing to
pay for the item then you would not be complaining about it here! You
just expected a real bargain...
I've "sniped" and will do it again. It is "discouraged" but is within
the rules of eBay. As a seller I once had a Railway Equipment Register
go from $13 to $45 in the last 3 minutes of the auction. To those
"snipers" I said "thanks". If it had been $30 the day that they first
saw it, then they might not have come back for the end of the auction
and gotten into a bidding battle.
But sometimes a "sniper" pays. There was one "sniper" on eBay back
about March that was "sniping" EVERY time a particular Tyco covered
hopper came up for auction. Well, apparently he was using a really high
bid to make sure he won each auction because one auction he ran into
another high bidding "sniper" and ended up paying almost $100 for one
that had been <$10 two minutes before... ;')
Bid high early or just be there during the last five minutes of the
auction with those that have lives but schedule them well...
- Curt Mc (please reply to: bcmc at erols dot com)
TRAINSN
>waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
>bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a complaint
>with
>Ebay. I was high bidder on an item for 4 days only to have it literally
>stolen
>from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
>computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
> If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
>
>
>
SPLITRACK
high enough for its value, maybe no one would have out bid you. If you really
want something, play the game as the rules are put forth. If you can provide a
better way to run an auction, let someone know. Talk is cheeeep.
Herrera Family
have already responded to your post, but I'll add that you should be very happy
eBay has an "automatic bid feature"... enter the highest amount you are willing to
pay and eBay bids for you. NO need to sit in front of your computer like a hawk.
Your posting suggest that either you don't understand this feature, or you don't
indeed have a life... I can't be sure.
Once in a while I LOVE to get into sniper mode and look for bargains. It's
perfectly legal and ethical, however I usually find that even though I bid what I
think will win the item, I am usually automatically out bid by someone who wanted
it worse than I did. All in all I think sniping is not only fun, but it's also a
good way to get a feel for eBay...it's just not always very productive.
C.L.Zeni
>
> Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping. Sniping is
> waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
> bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a complaint with
> Ebay. I was high bidder on an item for 4 days only to have it literally stolen
> from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
> computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
> If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
Bid your high bid the FIRST time. Don't be a tightwad. You've usually
got several days to decide what you'd pay for an item, then bid it. If
you're outbid by a snipe, well that's the way the system works. Said
sniper apparently desired the item more than you. And if you've just
GOT to have an item, bid something stupid high for it and hope that (1)
it doesn't get that high and (2) nobody's as desperate for it as you
are.
That's the way the system works. Ya just gotta deal with it.
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html
Capi
Called a "ringer", these people boost the bid and are usually friends of the
person who has the product up for bid/auction.
Even the company doing the auction invites their "friends" to help.
Under the law this is a "criminal act" and if caught doing so , no more
EBay.
I have found the best deals at roadside yard sales . Even boxes of un used
goodies if you ask , look around will ya!
Capi
Dalman33 wrote in message <19981215180456...@ng147.aol.com>...
Linda F. Herrera
actually mean "shill" ?). eBay dosen't solicite shills...quite the opposite.
I'm glad to have seen the responses to the original poster's whining.
One of the best features of eBay is the fact that you can set a maximum and then
have the system automatically "bid" for you. They could have easily set it up
to take your maximum bid as your one and only bid, but they didn't. They came
up with a very cool and fair system to bid for you. Again, I'm glad to see the
outpouring of support for how the system works.
"Capri" has no one to blame for missing out except for himself. Whaaaaaaa...
domho
Dalman33 wrote in message <19981215180456...@ng147.aol.com>...
>Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping. Sniping
is
>waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
>bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a complaint
with
>Ebay. I was high bidder on an item for 4 days only to have it literally
stolen
>from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
>computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
> If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
What in the H*** is unethical about that practice?!!!
Of all the other things to legitimately complain about, this is certainly
NOT one of them.
How loudly would you be whining if you were the seller taking in the extra
money this practice generated?
Happy Holidays,
Richard Howey
David Thuss
Dalman33 wrote:
> Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping. Sniping is
> waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
> bid, effectively cheating others out of the item.
E-Bay is not like a live auction where the auctioneer will accept bids until nobody
bids higher. High bidder wins!
With a time limit imposed, it's a "whole different ball game". Sniping is a
strategy. Either set you max as high as you are willing to go and hope for the
best, or use the strategy to your benefit.
--
Dave
It's all an illusion! (Henning)
MEAT7
>waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
>with
>Ebay. I was high bidder on an item for 4 days only to have it literally
>stolen
>from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
>computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
> If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
Or to paraphrase: "I don't like your rules....I'm taking my ball and going
home..."
Them's the rules of the road.
Online auctions don't close because Ed placed a bid, and because he is a really
nice guy, and got sniped the last 5 times he bid.
Sniping may not be ethical, but it by no means illegal. They are just using
the rules of the game to their advantage, like any smart bidder. If the item
is really that important, then try to snipe it, and place smart bids so as to
use the rules to your advantage. If you can't or won't do that, then don't
come around here belly aching because you were set up as a 4 day long patsy.
-Scott-
ODyard
suspicious of those who cry unfair when the free market works in a way they
don't like. It reminds me of Clinton defenders who whine and whine.
I lost my first aution to a sniper. I learned my lesson fast! You should, too
and get on with life.
Don
FYRFYTR762
gotten some WM stuff from you that way) Anyway I have found out that if you bid
early on you probably will be out bid on it. I have found the most economic
and functional way to get something is bid in the last five minutes, It gives
people less time to rethink their highest bid. Sometimes i cant get on the
computer at that time so I put in a bid and if I get it GREAt if not Ill order
it through a walthers catalog cheaper anyway(not as exciting but it works) And
believe me i have spent countless hours on their (last check i have spent over
$3000 on HO trains from Ebay, not to mention purchasing Ebay stock last
month(Id like to see that on the auction block)
Just my 2 cents worth
Remember opinions are like a--holes, evry one has one
Rob
johe110
Capi wrote in message <36772...@nemo.idirect.com>...
>You call it sniping, we call it something else.
>Called a "ringer", these people boost the bid and are usually friends of
the
>person who has the product up for bid/auction.
>Even the company doing the auction invites their "friends" to help.
>Under the law this is a "criminal act" and if caught doing so , no more
>EBay.
I've sold items on eBay and what you are suggesting is ridiculous. Why
would I bid on my own item? To drive the price up? What if no one exceeds
my or my friend's bid? I'm stuck with the item AND the listing fee eBay
charges to list items for sale. Look -- eBay reaches thousands and
thousands of people across the world. With a market like that, there's
bound to be someone who really, really wants what you're selling and is
willing to pay a lot more for it than you can get at a garage sale.
I tried to sell a set of down riggers (fishing items) locally for 3 years.
My asking price was $25 each, for a total of $50 - much less than the $200
each I paid for them several years ago - but
found no takers. I listed them on eBay and sold them at $268 for the pair.
I was happy and the buyer was happy to get them at that price. I didn't
have to drive up the price by bidding on these items or have my friends bid
on them. Several people wanted these items and determined the price.
John
john a dalton
>You call it sniping, we call it something else.
>Called a "ringer", these people boost the bid and are usually friends of the
>person who has the product up for bid/auction.
>Even the company doing the auction invites their "friends" to help.
>Under the law this is a "criminal act" and if caught doing so , no more
>EBay.
>I have found the best deals at roadside yard sales . Even boxes of un used
>goodies if you ask , look around will ya!
>
>Capi
...correction..."sniping" is not a "ringer"...a "ringer" is a "shill",
which is illegal...you've got your terms mixed up...
...i've seen people shot at a car auction for "shilling"...bad
business where there's lots of money involved....
...eBay encourages "sniping"...at least they don't have any rules
about it...and they take no action against it...they do encourage
early maximum bids, as others on here have pointed out...
...but if you are going to use eBay, and you want a particular item,
learn to snipe and stand your ground...i've seen it go down to 0.3 of
the last second...i would say this, most losers in a bidding war are
real sportsmen and women about it...they don't whine... :))
...big john... :))
Capi
johe110 wrote in message ...
>>Called a "ringer", these people boost the bid and are usually friends of
>the
>>person who has the product up for bid/auction.
>>Even the company doing the auction invites their "friends" to help.
>>Under the law this is a "criminal act" and if caught doing so , no more
>>EBay.
>
>
>
>would I bid on my own item? To drive the price up? What if no one exceeds
>my or my friend's bid? I'm stuck with the item AND the listing fee eBay
>charges to list items for sale. Look -- eBay reaches thousands and
>thousands of people across the world. With a market like that, there's
>bound to be someone who really, really wants what you're selling and is
>willing to pay a lot more for it than you can get at a garage sale.
>
>I tried to sell a set of down riggers (fishing items) locally for 3 years.
>My asking price was $25 each, for a total of $50 - much less than the $200
>each I paid for them several years ago - but
>found no takers. I listed them on eBay and sold them at $268 for the
pair.
>I was happy and the buyer was happy to get them at that price. I didn't
>have to drive up the price by bidding on these items or have my friends bid
>on them. Several people wanted these items and determined the price.
>
>John
>
interest in the goods being sold. I've been in nasty bids only to find out
that the "ringers" get commissions or a % of the action.
These people really hurt a "heart set" bidder , just like tempting a child
with candy.
The world is often a good market place, but sometimes it means taking
advantage of others. ( dog eat dog )
This NG is not for us to beef or air in this way ,so lets get back to
model railroading .
Besides that I came here to learn and , not to compete.
Capi
Guy H Quick III
had won an item. Because of the time zones, someone had out bid me over
night. I jumped in as fast as I could and layed down another bid. I got in
just under the wire. I had put a pretty good price into the system the
night before. Someone else wanted it. If I had not gotten up, it would not
have been snipping. I just had too long a break between when I bid and when
the auction ended. These closed auctions are used in many ways. I have
seen people hover over a table upping the bid every time someone put a
higher bid than theirs on the bid sheet. Once in a while they get in at the
last minute to bump it once more before the whistle sounds, sometimes not.
If you want a bargain, never get into an auction. I have seen people pay
$200.00 a bottle for whiskey that was confiscated. They could get it for
$29.00 a bottle at the local store. Because it was a Customs auction, it
must have been better than gold. There is a show on one of the special
channels called "At The Auction". The auction company has written bids from
people that can't be there and bids for them. They have set a max bid, and
when it is reached they are out.
Guy
Capi wrote in message <36772...@nemo.idirect.com>...
>You call it sniping, we call it something else.
>Called a "ringer", these people boost the bid and are usually friends >of
the person who has the product up for bid/auction. Even the >company doing
the auction invites their "friends" to help. Under the >law this is a
"criminal act" and if caught doing so , no more EBay.
snip
>Capi
>Dalman33 wrote in message <19981215180456...@ng147.aol.com>...
>>Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of >>sniping.
Sniping is waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of >>an auction to
make a final bid, effectively cheating others out of the >>item. I have
filed a complaint with Ebay. I was high bidder on an snip
Capi
I didn't miss a thing!
Read the first header first, don't start at the bottom and work backwards.
Then you can see , that you're just getting mad at yourself.
The Capi
Linda F. Herrera wrote in message <367742D1...@fix.net>...
>Give me a break... "Sniping" is not to be confused with a "ringer" (or do
you
>actually mean "shill" ?). eBay dosen't solicite shills...quite the
opposite.
>I'm glad to have seen the responses to the original poster's whining.
>
>One of the best features of eBay is the fact that you can set a maximum and
then
>have the system automatically "bid" for you. They could have easily set it
up
>to take your maximum bid as your one and only bid, but they didn't. They
came
>up with a very cool and fair system to bid for you. Again, I'm glad to see
the
>outpouring of support for how the system works.
>
>"Capri" has no one to blame for missing out except for himself.
Whaaaaaaa...
>
>Capi wrote:
>
>> You call it sniping, we call it something else.
>> Called a "ringer", these people boost the bid and are usually friends of
the
>> person who has the product up for bid/auction.
>> Even the company doing the auction invites their "friends" to help.
>> Under the law this is a "criminal act" and if caught doing so , no more
>> EBay.
>> I have found the best deals at roadside yard sales . Even boxes of un
used
>> goodies if you ask , look around will ya!
>>
>> Capi
>>
>> Dalman33 wrote in message
<19981215180456...@ng147.aol.com>...
>> >Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping.
Sniping
>> is
>> >waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a
final
>> >bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a
complaint
>> with
Andy Harman
>Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping. Sniping is
>waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
>bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a complaint with
>Ebay. I was high bidder on an item for 4 days only to have it literally stolen
>from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
>computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
> If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
It's an AUCTION. The high bidder AT THE CLOSE wins. Why do so many
people have trouble understanding that? If I was the high bidder in
the final 20 nanoseconds and some whiner claimed the item at a lower
price because of "sniping", I'd be the one filing the complaint. It's
either legal or it ain't.
Andy
-------------------------------------------
Please reply to aharman at hhcustom dot com
-------------------------------------------
Andy Harman
wrote:
>With a time limit imposed, it's a "whole different ball game". Sniping is a
>strategy. Either set you max as high as you are willing to go and hope for the
>best, or use the strategy to your benefit.
Exactly. It's like "sandbagging" in drag racing (bracket racing).
It's where you dial in slower than your car will run, and hit the
brakes in the lights after you have forced your opponent to run balls
out and probably break out (run under his dialed-in time, an automatic
loss). The brake hit just keeps you from breaking out at the last
split second. I've seen guys win a lot of money on this strategy, but
it's because they know their cars very well and have the technique
down. It's not cheating, it's just a strategy. The way to beat it is
to know your own car just as well and ignore the sandbagger's brake
lights. The equivalent of bidding up front what you're willing to
pay.
MetaFizzDr
If you can't bid, and walk away when you lose, DON"T BID.
You put what you thought it was worth, or what you could 'steal" it for --
someone else had the common sense to wait till the end.....
CAVEAT EMPTOR!!
mga...@decaturnet.com
right? Somebody else also placed their highest bid but just happened to do so
at the end of the auction. All bidding is open until the final bell. It does
not matter if it is placed in the first hour or at the last minute. The
auction does not stop when Dalman33 places his bid. I would suggest that
there is no such thing as "snipping" because in all reality it is just
another bid. So, stop crying foul when no foul occurred.
Mark
In article <19981215180456...@ng147.aol.com>,
dalm...@aol.com (Dalman33) wrote:
> Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping. Sniping is
> waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
> bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a complaint
with
> Ebay. I was high bidder on an item for 4 days only to have it literally stolen
> from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
> computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
> If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Linda F. Herrera
Whatever you do, please don't have 4-5 sessions of ebay going at once just so you
can jackhammer 4-5 bids (if needed) in the final 30 seconds or so. That's a
technique left to serious snipers, and we don't need anymore competition. QED.
Lungshot1
>>waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
>>bid, effectively cheating others
This is done by a piece of software that automatically notes the current price
and bids up the price in the last few seconds. You just program in what you
want and how much you want to spend and the program does it for you without
tipping your hand early in the auction.
Similar to software used on stock market for selling as it gauges what is
happening in the market.
I guess EBay will have to become like the SEC and stop "trading" if the
auctions overheat!
ED
BondoBill1
Auctions that feature Studebaker, and Studebaker related items. If a few guys
mark an item, the rest of the Studebaker Community knows to watch what certain
buyers are interested in. For example, if I place a bid on a Studebake ritem,I
can name five guys who will try and outbid me or snipe it away from me. If I do
not show my interest, by 'tagging' the item with an intitial bid, I can snipe
it, in the last 60 seconds at a fair price. Since I have sold items on E-Bay
there is a rule that a seller can BID ONCE if hte bidder feels that the current
bidding does not meet his expectations, especially if the item is not a reserve
item. 98% of everything I bought on E-Bay was sniped. I feel there is a remedy,
but might be just as unfair as sniping. The way around this would to keep the
bidding ending at a specific time. But any bidding that takes place within the
last 5 (five) minutes is not published. It is at the last 5 minutes guys have a
chance to place the highest possible amount they would be willing to pay. Then
at the end of the auction, E-Bay lists the winner, so, in effect the sniping is
stopped as there is no indication within the last 5 minutes that you were
outbid, sniped, or sandbagged. Last summer I bought from a guy a 48 inch
porcelain Sudebaker Service sign, for $335, it was a direct sale, non E-Bay.
Last month there was a newer version, "post war" on E-Bay, it sold for $785,
with the last $400 increase happen within the last 2 min. Three guys were
sniping each other and a 4th guy came in and bid what he thought the item was
worth, $1000. Sniping will be around. Don't tip your hand. There is also a
program that you buy and subscribe to that automatically snipes for you even if
you are off line at work or in the car, away form your computer, it bids your
MAXIMUM at 30 sec. There are very feew bargins now on E-Bay, and it has caused
the price of Stude stuff to be increased in price at swap meets, and
justifiably as the material was never considered marketable at a real price
until the advent of E-Bay.
Bondo Billy, proud owner of the Hawk from Hell and his all girl pit crew!
http://members.aol.com/bondobill1/index.htm
See our line of Studebaker Shirts at
http://members.aol.com/bondobill1/spam.htm
http://members.aol.com/bondobill1/toypage.htm
D Outen
ODyard wrote in message <19981215211827...@ng115.aol.com>...
I can't wait for the impeachment proceedings to begin and end. Congress
certainly has enough experts with experience in adultery and lying.
Of course none of them whine or are Republicans? Now where are those
pre-tested horn hooks that I can make a killing on Ebay with?
Dave
Patrick LaTorres
>>>waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
>>>bid, effectively cheating others
Think of it as a "Real" auction: people keep sticking their bid
cards in the air until all but one are left. This is much the same,
put your highest bid up and ride it out, if someone with more money or
more desire bids a higher price, they get the item. What's so hard to
understand here? Would this same person complain that someone was
"sniping" if they didn't raise their bid card as the auctioneer was
almost closing the sale? If so, welcome to the world of auctions, it
happens all the time (not to say everytime). Such is life.
Enjoy,
Pat LaTorres
CumminsDoc
waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
Ebay. >>
Unethical?????? Thats the way auctions work. I bet you would do the same
thing if there were an item you really wanted, and you were able to "sit in
front of the computer like a HAWK"
stev knowles
>
>Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping. Sniping is
>waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
>bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a complaint
with
>from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
>computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
> If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
while i have never done sniping, and i have had it done to me, i personally
dont see the problem. on Ebay, you are supposed to set the maximum price you
are willing to pay. if someone else comes in at the *last minute*, but agrees
to pay *more* than your maximum bid, well, that is how it goes, you shoudl have
set your maximum bid higher.
i know that some services, like http://www.onsale.com, seem to extend auctions
when there is last minute bidding. it seems that they want the bidding to die
down for 5 minutes before they will close the auction.
--
stev knowles
st...@Precision.Guesswork.Com
http://www.guesswork.com
Precision Guesswork, Inc.
Patrick LaTorres
>> Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping. Sniping is
>> waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
>> bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a complaint with
>> Ebay. I was high bidder on an item for 4 days only to have it literally stolen
>> from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
>> computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
>> If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
I hope to god you never go to a REAL auction, you'll be heart
broken. The auction stops when the gavel drops! Until then it's open
season. Put up your highest bid and ride it out, no one owes you an
item just because you bid early.
Enjoy,
Pat LaTorres
stev knowles
>With the popularity of eBay rapidly expanding, it's becoming even more
>difficult to make a good deal there.
you mean, when you are a buyer. i am sure the sellers think that the deals are
getting better:)
Linda F. Herrera
longer works with eBay and I haven't seen any new ones. I don't think they do,
but I could be wrong. In any event, it wouldn't be a whole lot different than
eBay's own bidding routine which really dosen't tip one's maximum bid...the true
measure if you will or will not win a bid.
Lungshot1 wrote:
> >>Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping. Sniping is
> >>waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
> >>bid, effectively cheating others
>
Tim Culberson
>waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
The rpoblem is, you're wrong. There is no foundation to call "sniping", as
you put it, unethical. If you don't want to sert in front of your computer
all of the time then too darn bad for you!
Picture it as a real auction...
Auctioneer: 20 dollars, anyone gimme 20 dollars..
Joe fart: 20 dollars!
Auctioneer 20 dollars going once...20 going twice...sold to Joe Fart.
You: Hey, not fair! I was in the port-o-john and didn't get a chance to bid.
-Tim Culberson
da...@erinet.com
> - snip -
>I guess EBay will have to become like the SEC and stop "trading" if the
>auctions overheat!
Actually, eBay seems to encourage overheating. If an item receives
more than a certain number of bids (30?) it is featured in red at the
bottom of the page in a special category -- "hot items".
In the ". . . trains: HO, OO, TT" category, you don't see something in
the "hot items" section very often. The last thing I recall was a
Marklin something-or-other at some astronomical price.
Bruce Sherman
Hi all, my question has to do with how the reserve price works. For
example, the bidding starts at $5 and the seller set a reserve price of $10.
I place the starting bid maximum bid of $15 thinking that the current bid
should be $5, but instead, the reserve price kicks in and the current bid is
$10. I would tend to think that my bid would be the next available bid
increment.
Bruce
Curt Mc
When your max bid exceeds the reserve price, the auction bid rises to
the reserve bid for two reasons: (1) so the seller knows that a bidder
has met his reserve (and thus he IS obligated to sell the item), and (2)
to let other bidders know that the reserve has been met (meaning the
item WILL be sold) and what amount the reserve was...
- Curt Mc (please respond to: bcmc at erols dot com)
DjM
Tim Culberson wrote:
>
> Picture it as a real auction...
THAT is the problem, e-bay is NOT a conventional auction.
A "real" auction ends only after the bidding has stopped ... and THAT is fair.
e-bay is timed, therefore bidding doesn't have a chance to run out on it's own
... it's simply cut off.
E-bay's gimmick is the auction fever that they (e-bay) have artificially created.
They feed off of it and that's why they're so popular.
I am a customer at e-bay, and I too have been "sniped". But that's not my gripe
or point.
My point is that e-bay is NOT a conventional auction.
And I won't even start in on how e-bay has blown prices way out of proportion.
-=D
--
Lou & Joy Lauderbaugh
system put the winning bid in at 50 cents above yours. The winning
bidder could have submitted a bid of $10,000.00. The final bid
price would still have been 50 cents above the previous high bid.
Sniping is not unethical, it is an art form.
--- Lou ---
Dalman33 wrote:
>
> I was only outbid by .50. Had I been outbid by a large amount, it wouldnt
> bother me so much. The item was worth what I bid for it. This person obviously
> has the time to sit in front of the computer and wait to do just what he did.
> The car was priced fairly. It was a bargain.
Curt Mc
>
> You think it is funny. I think it was unethical.
Unethical??? Give me a break!!! Did it hurt anything besides your "too
far out on your shirt-sleaves" feelings???
> I have searched for the item in question for a long time.
Then I would have bid higher, even just a few minutes before the end of
the auction, just to make sure that I got the item. Just because you
are the current high bidder does not mean that you cannot increase your
maximum bid... and doing so WILL NOT increase the current bid!
> What pisses me off is...
...crybabies who try to use this NG as a therapy forum...
I thought this NG was for model railroad information purposes (product
info, tips, ocassional individual sales,etc...) Not repeated whining...
- Curt Mc (please reply to: bcmc at erols dot com)
DjM
Steve Jacobs wrote:
> As someone who has been the victim of sniping and has also placed a
> bid in the last minute or so myself, I don't see how it is unethical.
>
> The rules of e-Bay are right out there in the open. Any one can read
> them and it is reasonable to adapt one's strategy to accomidate them.
Of course "sniping" isn't against their rules, e-bay feeds off of it, why
would they want to stop it.
And just because something isn't "against the rules" doesn't mean it's
ethical.
-=D
--
David Mikulec
Lance A.R. Buckingham
dalm...@aol.com says...
> >How loudly would you be whining if you were the seller taking in the extra
> >money this practice generated?
> >
> >
>
> Rich, it was a lousy fifty cents. Had it been ten or twenty bucks, I might be
> POd, but I would not have paid $40 for the item anyway. This snake simply said
> at the computer and waited until the last 20 secs and took something I believed
> that I had won. And that is legal, but it sure aint ethical.
>
BS. It's certainly ethical. Quit whining. Oh, by the way, what did
eBay do about your carping ? Did they reverse the auction's results ? I
think not.
"If you wanna play, sometimes you just gotta pay..."
domho
Dalman33 wrote in message <19981216200130...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
>>How loudly would you be whining if you were the seller taking in the extra
>>money this practice generated?
>>
>>
>
>Rich, it was a lousy fifty cents. Had it been ten or twenty bucks, I might
be
>POd, but I would not have paid $40 for the item anyway. This snake simply
said
>at the computer and waited until the last 20 secs and took something I
believed
>that I had won. And that is legal, but it sure aint ethical.
Dalman,
It seems as though almost everyone on this NG has taken potshots at your
attitude except the old geezer who seems to have missed his medications for
the last couple of days!
Being in the Christmas spirit I'll have to admit that I've been in your
eBay shoes myself and I can sympathize with you. But on the other hand,
I've won(?) a computer auction worth $2000 by anticipating the "snipers" and
making my maximum $1 higher than what I anticipated them to bid in the last
30 seconds.
In a previous post today you said the item was "...a bargain..." and
another poster said 'if that was the case you should have bid higher'. I
agree with that poster(too lazy to read back and credit this individual).
You also state that you were outbid by "a lousy fifty cents." You don't know
that! Your "sniper" may have outbid you by a hundred dollars for all you
know.
I still have to take issue with you for calling your bidding opponent a
"snake" and your silly(IMHO) claim that last moment bidding is unethical. I
hate to see anyone(yourself) so upset at such a trivial matter. Why not
conjure up the mental image of some poor schmuck with nothing better to do
than sit at his monitor for endless hours trying to save a couple bucks!
Save a couple bucks...that's a pretty ludicrous comment when you realize
we're discussing eBay prices! OOPS! Sorry Art----that bidding place!
If you aren't going to have a Merry Christmas, at least have a good evening,
Rich Howey
TOM
Viagra... Better make it a double, 'cause that's the only I can stay
awake... :>))
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
SAIL LOCO
can be bought for new at a retailer. It seems once again that most people want
to get their money back.
Charles F Seyferlich
Depends on the seller. I got rid of a couple of new Kato HO RS2's a
while back. I set a reserve - just in case bidding went dead or eBay had
problems. I set reserve at $49, which I felt was fair. I gave bidders a
crack at a bargin, but I would not loose too much money. Most of the
time I do not set a reserve.
I feel some set reserves too high - but I still will not bid higher than
I feel the item is worth to me.
Dalman33
Dalman33
I dont like him either!! But seriously, I made a fair bid and so did the other
guy. It;s just that he did so in a way I feel is unethical. Oh well.
Fortunately I know the guy and he has a kit available which I am buying from
him
Dalman33
his bid amount, it has to do with his waiting until 20 seconds left to go
before making the bid, knowing there wouldn't be time enough to respond
Dalman33
item; I simply think he knew that no one was going to sit up until all hours of
the night to make sure their bid was secure, then he bids with twenty seconds
left to make sure he gets the item.
Reg Barron
Still a gamble on his part. If the current price was $20 (and your upper
limit was $30), he could have had an upper limit of, for example, $28.
The system would have run the bids up automaticly and you would have
won with a $28.50 bid. Even sniping isn't fool proof.
Reg Barron
Dalman33
that I was used. I think ebay needs to do what the person a couple of messages
back said, not publish the bids of the final five minutes. And I dont
appreciate your attitude. i got cheated in my opinion. Please note, I said my
opinion. Is it sour grapes? Sure it is, because I wasn't expecting it to
happen. I suppose that is what I get for trusting people to be ethical.
Dalman33
Dalman33
Dalman33
bidding. In this case, because of time zones and the fact that I had been high
bidder for four days, I had no reason to suspect that someone would come at the
20 second mark and take the item. I believed that no one else was interested in
the item because no bid had been made in 4 days.
Dalman33
gripe is that this clown obviously tracked the item and waited until the last
seconds to literally steal it. He didnt have the balls to bid, he was willing
to let me think that I had won the item and then take it.
Were we all in the same room, the bid would have been fair. I could have
seen him and made a higher bid.
I wasnt trying to steal anything and I resent your implication.
Dalman33
see my opponent. That would have been easy to take. I could have seen the bet
and responded. But it wasn't and I couldnt. So I lost something I had been
looking forward to.
I feel cheated, even if in the opinions of others
Dalman33
without a bid, I most likely would not have bothered to bid.
Dalman33
After 4 days of being high bidder without a competing bid, and one hour left to
go, I believed that the matter was settled. I had to get up at 445AM and go to
work. I made a fair maximum bid for the item in question and so did the other
guy. The difference? he waited until 20 secs to go after four days of not
bothering to bid. If he had bid against me back and forth and he had won with
20 secs left or 2 secs left, I wouldnt care. I got used. You know it, I know
it.
BondoBill1
>bidder could have submitted a bid of $10,000.00.
If done that way, it could only hurt the guy who bid the $10K. How, and why?
There was a sign over on the Studebaker auction area, sign should under normal
circumstances sell for around $400 to $550, and that is high. If somebody bid
$10K, and you were bidding, you would see that after 3 days you were always
being outbid, so you take a stab, go high, and its still out bid, you have
forced this guy into buying a $400 for $10K, I don't htink there really are
that many who would try that trick more than once.>The winning
Bondo Billy, proud owner of the Hawk from Hell and his all girl pit crew!
http://members.aol.com/bondobill1/index.htm
See our line of Studebaker Shirts at
http://members.aol.com/bondobill1/spam.htm
http://members.aol.com/bondobill1/toypage.htm
Steve Jacobs
bid in the last minute or so myself, I don't see how it is unethical.
The rules of e-Bay are right out there in the open. Any one can read
them and it is reasonable to adapt one's strategy to accomidate them.
Participation as a bidder on e-Bay is voluntary. If you feel it is
inappropriate, you are free not to participate.
It seems to me that e-Bay's motivation should be to maximize the
benefit to those who are directly paying it-- i.e. the sellers. If
they do anyting to increase prices then they acomplish that (and
increase their fees as well). Of course, if they act in a manner to
sufficiently drive away buyers, they will damage their business.
So their policies are going to be balanced by those considerations I
imagine.
I also imagine that if enough buyers complain about a given policy
then it will get changed.
steve
BondoBill1
>can be bought for new at a retailer. It seems once again that most people
>want
>to get their money back.
Please don't make that blanket statement. A reserve is what the seller either
has in it, as in a car, the cost of restoration, or better yet, look at Pepsi
and Coke Items, most reserves are fair market prices based on condition, in
some cases a good seller will under grade his item, and let the mavens
(experts) either ask questions, or closely look at the photos. Tonight, guys
were bidding hot and heavy for a six pack of full bottles of Pepsi in its
original carton.....one problem, bottles did not fit carry-all, they were 10oz
bottles in a 16 oz carrier BUYER BEWARE. I for one made huge errors in trying
to sell books on E-Bay. I used the selling price of a bookseller in Railfan as
a guide for Reserve, mind you, that these books were one owner, and had been
hidden in my house for over 23 yrs. I got devistating letters of condemnation,
that I was a crook, and decietful. Turned out, my source, was the crook, and I
followed his pricing.
Bill
da...@erinet.com
Criminy, what was this item anyway? It must have been something pretty
special?
BondoBill1
>special?
Yes, what was it? I get upset over losing hard to find stuff, especially from a
comapny that wnet out of business 33 yrs ago. What was it, and how much did it
sell for?
john a dalton
>
>Hi all, my question has to do with how the reserve price works. For
>example, the bidding starts at $5 and the seller set a reserve price of $10.
>I place the starting bid maximum bid of $15 thinking that the current bid
>should be $5, but instead, the reserve price kicks in and the current bid is
>$10. I would tend to think that my bid would be the next available bid
>increment.
>
>Bruce
...Bruce...originally on eBay it was that way...like a normal auction,
except the seller had a "hidden reserve"....and the seller didn't have
to tell eBay what the reserve was...it allowed the seller to have the
same item in 3 other on'line auctions at the same time...i once asked
a seller what his reserve was and he told me, "i won't know till the
other auctions are over"...
...then they introduced the "kicker"...if you have a $5.00 starting
bid, and a $50.00 reserve, the bidding is normal UNTIL somebody bid's
a MAX bid equal to the reserve...THEN the bid "jumps", or "kicks" up
to the reserve amount...quite disconcerting if you are not aware that
it's going to happen !!!...after the "reserve has been met", the
bidding resumes as normal again...
...and in this new program, the seller HAS to tell eBay what the
reserve amount is, beforehand...no more fooling around with the buyers
in that regard...
...there are some sellers who don't understand reserve bidding,
either, and get all flustered when the high bidder won't go ahead and
buy at the higher reserve price...on the other hand, there are some
sellers who won't tell you their reserve price because they never
intended to sell the item anyway...they just wanted to see "what it
was worth"...eBay laughs at these folks because the listing fee is
based on their reserve price...
...big john... :))
john a dalton
>Bruce Sherman wrote:
>>
>> Hi all, my question has to do with how the reserve price works. For
>> example, the bidding starts at $5 and the seller set a reserve price of $10.
>> I place the starting bid maximum bid of $15 thinking that the current bid
>> should be $5, but instead, the reserve price kicks in and the current bid is
>> $10. I would tend to think that my bid would be the next available bid
>> increment.
>>
>> Bruce
>
>When your max bid exceeds the reserve price, the auction bid rises to
>the reserve bid for two reasons: (1) so the seller knows that a bidder
>has met his reserve (and thus he IS obligated to sell the item), and (2)
>to let other bidders know that the reserve has been met (meaning the
>item WILL be sold) and what amount the reserve was...
>
>- Curt Mc (please respond to: bcmc at erols dot com)
...well put...big john... :))
BOCOWM
So you could have sniped him?
How about this scenario: What would have happened if person X was the high
bidder for 4 days, and you made a bid in the last five minutes and it didn't
beat his? Would you have bid again, until you exceeded his bid? Or wwould
you have said, "Aw shucks, didn't get it."?
Just a thought...
Brian
Warren Kellogg
>fact is we are NOT all in a room together where we can see each other bid.
>After 4 days of being high bidder without a competing bid, and one hour left to
>go, I believed that the matter was settled. I had to get up at 445AM and go to
>work. I made a fair maximum bid for the item in question and so did the other
>guy. The difference? he waited until 20 secs to go after four days of not
>bothering to bid. If he had bid against me back and forth and he had won with
>20 secs left or 2 secs left, I wouldnt care. I got used. You know it, I know
>it.
I don't know anything of the sort. Why would any rational person artificially
drive up the price of something he wanted to purchase?
Bidding against you on day two of your "reign" as high bidder very likely
would have resulted in a counter-bid from you, thus driving the price up. He
merely waited until that was a less-likely result. He waited 'til you went
beddie-bye.
And they all - but one - lived happily after. Now, off you go, don't forget
to give Mommy a kiss....
w
Warren Kellogg
>>Criminy, what was this item anyway? It must have been something pretty
>>special?
>
>Yes, what was it? I get upset over losing hard to find stuff, especially from a
>comapny that wnet out of business 33 yrs ago. What was it, and how much did it
>sell for?
Wait'll you see this: It was item #47828084, The "Fartz and Howe Wood Box
Car". You can still see the auction history by doing a search either the
buyer or the item number.
w
PeterH5322
Yet another misunderstanding about "reserve" ...
>>
... For example, the bidding starts at $5 and the seller set a reserve price of
$10.
I place the starting bid maximum bid of $15 thinking that the current bid
should be $5, but instead, the reserve price kicks in and the current bid is
$10 ...
>>
1) The confirmation screen clearly states that the behavior is as you observed.
Did you read the confirmation screen before hitting "enter"?
One strategy is to bid the next increment, wait several days until someone else
causes the "reserve" to be met, and then resume bidding.
2) Some sellers place an unreasonable reserve on their items, perhaps out of
ignorance.
Those bidders who "snipe" with a very high value, expecting to force a "win"
irrespective of any other sniper's bids, will thereby be screwing themselves,
as they will be obligated to purchase at the unreasonably high reserve.
The defense is to let normal attrition cause the reserve to be met, and then do
your sniping.
PeterH5322
dalm...@aol.com reports:
>>
I was only outbid by .50. Had I been outbid by a large amount, it wouldnt ...
>>
Hey, I've been out-bid by $0.01.
But I've successfully outbid others by $0.01 more times than I've been outbid.
It's also possible to be out-bid, yet the bids are precisely the same amount.
PeterH5322
>>
The winning bidder could have submitted a bid of $10,000.00. The final bid
price would still have been 50 cents above the previous high bid.
>>
Absolutely.
The ONLY bids that are posted in their actual amount are the second highest and
all lower bids.
It is impossible to determine the actual highest bid ... it will always be the
lower of the actual highest bid or the increment over the second highest bid.
Curt Mc
> >Yes, what was it? I get upset over losing hard to find stuff, especially from a
> >comapny that wnet out of business 33 yrs ago. What was it, and how much did it
> >sell for?
>
> Wait'll you see this: It was item #47828084, The "Fartz and Howe Wood Box
> Car". You can still see the auction history by doing a search either the
> buyer or the item number.
>
> w
Darn, that was a KIND sniper - he gave him a full 88 seconds (1:28) to
beat his bid!!
Guy H Quick III
command of an item only to see an outbid notice. I then jumped back in and
upped my bid. I think one of them was within seconds of closing. This had
gone back and forth between three of us for several days. I was just lucky
I got home when I did. If I had been held late at work, I would have lost
it. I don't think that checking when I came in the house and adjusting my
bid was wrong.
Guy
Dalman33 wrote in message <19981216201649...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
>First of all, I made a fair bid. So did the other guy. That is not my
gripe. My
>gripe is that this clown obviously tracked the item and waited until the
last
>seconds to literally steal it. He didnt have the balls to bid, he was
willing
>to let me think that I had won the item and then take it.
> Were we all in the same room, the bid would have been fair. I could
have
>seen him and made a higher bid.
Guy H Quick III
lists of preferred customers that see the items in advance and then leave a
written bid with the company. The auction company has people that bid your
written bid to its limit or they even call you and you bid brom the phone.
As I said in an earlier post, watch "At The Auction". It is either on HGTV
or one of those other channels with home improvement and other things.
Guy
Dalman33 wrote in message <19981216201142...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
Andy Harman
>First of all, I made a fair bid. So did the other guy. That is not my gripe. My
>gripe is that this clown obviously tracked the item and waited until the last
>seconds to literally steal it. He didnt have the balls to bid, he was willing
>to let me think that I had won the item and then take it.
There is no reason to sit in front of your computer for five days or
any other such nonsense. If there is an item you are interested in,
you have two choices: either place the maximum you are willing to pay
for it (not a penny more or less) as a bid and if the snipers don't
know what your ceiling is, they may guess wrong! Either that, or
don't even bother to place a bid until the auction is within minutes
of closing. The only reason the items are left up there so long is to
generate interest; a 5-minute auction would not give anyone time to
even discover the item. The closing minutes are all that count when
it comes to bidding. The bottom line is someone was willing to pay 50
cents more for it than you were! If you were willing to pay 50 cents
more, or a buck more, or 5 bucks more... that's what you should have
set your maximum bid to.
I once bid on a saxophone on ebay; the bidding was at $245. I bid a
ceiling of $300 and within minutes a bid of $305 was on the block.
Obviously someone else's ceiling was higher than mine. They were
probably fast asleep and their max bid kicked it up automatically. I
went up to $350 which was absolutely as high as I would go, and got
the high bid momentarily at $315. When I got up the next morning it
was well over $400 and I let it go. The point is, your max number is
still your max number. Ebay doesn't force you to reveal your maximum
bid, so if somebody bids minimum increment over yours and your max
kicks up to beat it, they still won't know how far they have to go.
Andy
-------------------------------------------
Please reply to aharman at hhcustom dot com
-------------------------------------------
Andy Harman
>Unethical?????? Thats the way auctions work. I bet you would do the same
>thing if there were an item you really wanted, and you were able to "sit in
>front of the computer like a HAWK"
There is no reason to sit in front of the computer until closing time,
other than to browse the items and select. If you want to be sure of
getting the item, you can place a solid max bid in the closing
seconds, or place a firm enough bid early on to discourage others. An
auction is designed to fetch the maximum price for the seller. Any
rules, other than the obvious rule against shill bidding, which would
invalidate the high bidder would be cheating both the high bidder AND
the seller. The high bidder wins.
burr...@odyssee.net
>I was only outbid by .50. Had I been outbid by a large amount, it wouldnt
>bother me so much. The item was worth what I bid for it. This person obviously
>has the time to sit in front of the computer and wait to do just what he did.
>The car was priced fairly. It was a bargain.
What you dont seem to have twigged too -- and Im surprised no one has
mentioned it earlier(hadnt checked rmr for a couple of days) -- is
that WHAT HE WON AT was your final bid plus the minimum raise at that
point. You have no way of knowing what he may have put in as his
maximum bid, and in all likelihood was significantly more than than
the 50c difference. He himself has no sure way of knowing if others
are up to the same tactics
I personally have pretty well ceased to bid on items, mainly because
most of what I might try for now go for amounts higher -- and
sometimes incredibly higher -- than what I beleieve they are worth TO
ME. But that's the nature of the game, and I can live with it. With
patience I'll probably find the same thing through other means or at
other venues.
--------------------------------
In another posting "Linda Herrara" wrote:
<One of the best features of eBay is the fact that you can set a
maximum and then
have the system automatically "bid" for you. They could have easily
set it up
to take your maximum bid as your one and only bid, but they didn't.
They came
up with a very cool and fair system to bid for you. Again, I'm glad
to see the
outpouring of support for how the system works.>
This could be looked upon as the electronic equivalent to the system
used by _reputable_ mail auctioneers. In these auctions, a winning
bid is adjusted down to a minimum or percentage amount above the
second highest bid, allowing a bidder to offer the price he feels an
item is worth to him, with the assurance that if all other offers are
significantly lower he will be awarded it at a fair raise over the 2nd
highest bid.
==============================================================
Gerry Burridge Making the world safe for anarchy at:
P.O. Box 152 burr...@odyssee.net
Pte. Claire - Dorval, Que.
H9R 4N9 <Old Alcos Never Die, They Just Disappear in Smoke>
---------------------------------------------------------------
Kenneth Smith
a hard drive I wanted and had bid early on with what I considered to be a
fair price. (Opening price $30. and I placed a max bid of $55.00) With 3
minutes to go I watched some yutz start sneaking in .50 bids trying to get
just over my max. He'd managed to get the price jacked to $53.00 before
time ran out on him. (Near as I can determine he wasn't a shill. His ISP
was in a different part of the country than the sellers.) I sent him a
special picture I have for similar occasions...titled ebaynews.bmp, its a big,
hairy butt with the word "GOTCHA!" on it. :)
All the same, if someone REALLY wants something bad enough to beat my max,
more power to 'em. With Ebay, its only a matter of time until another
comes along.
BondoBill1
>most of what I might try for now go for amounts higher -- and
>sometimes incredibly higher
E-Bay has caused a normal items that have had over years specific value, to
jump artificially in value, or what folks are willling to pay. I attend two
swap meets every year which a specific to a auto manufactuer. These swap meets
served a void, where hard, or almost impossible to find items are up for sale.
Since 1997, almost every week I have purchased via E-bay items only found at
these swap meets. Three weeks ago we went to the last meet, and my wife and
daughter, made an observation,....E-Bay has in reality destroyed the November
Swap meet. What has happened is the average, collector, now finds that
everyday, is Reedsville. Yes prices have become inflated, but in some cases
prices have finally reached a level that meets the normal street price, of
goods that other car makers products command at swap meets. What might be the
worse possible situation, is that new modelers just entering the hobby might
get scared of by some of the pricing, or get caugt up in bidding for an item,
without really knowing its true value.
Billy
stev knowles
says...
>
>I was only outbid by .50. Had I been outbid by a large amount, it wouldnt
>bother me so much. The item was worth what I bid for it. This person obviously
>has the time to sit in front of the computer and wait to do just what he did.
>The car was priced fairly. It was a bargain.
this statement can be misleading. you were outbid by 50 cents because the
minimum increment was 50 cents. if you mean "i set a bid, which remained for 4
days, and i lost it in the last two minutes for 50 cents more than the bid that
stood for 4 days", well, you didnt play the game "right" you needed to bid what
you thought you woudl be willing to pay, not just enough to win right now.
i have bid on things in ebay where my max bid was 20$ more than the current
bid, but when the bid returned, it told me i had been outbid (by someone
willing to pay more than i was, it seems).
no one requires this to be "fair", it is only required to be "consistant".
--
stev knowles
st...@Precision.Guesswork.Com
http://www.guesswork.com
Precision Guesswork, Inc.
stev knowles
says...
>
>You think it is funny. I think it was unethical.
>I have searched for the item in question for a long time. What pisses me off
is
>that I was used. I think ebay needs to do what the person a couple of messages
>back said, not publish the bids of the final five minutes. And I dont
>appreciate your attitude. i got cheated in my opinion. Please note, I said my
>opinion. Is it sour grapes? Sure it is, because I wasn't expecting it to
>happen. I suppose that is what I get for trusting people to be ethical.
you played the game wrong. if it was worth so much to you, you shoudl have set
your maximum bid higher. getting pissed off isnt worth much, learning the
lession will serve you well next time one shows up on ebay.
my biggest complaint with them is that they dont have a service i can leave
search words with, and it tells me when new auctions show up with things i have
been looking for . . .
Patrick LaTorres
>I am a customer at e-bay, and I too have been "sniped". But that's not my gripe
>or point.
>My point is that e-bay is NOT a conventional auction.
>And I won't even start in on how e-bay has blown prices way out of proportion.
>-=D
Wrongo! e-bay has done NOTHING to prices. Bidders are the only
influence on price. I've seen items go for (IMHO) absurd prices, on
the other hand I just picked up an S.P. brochure on the Daylight from
about 1956 that I've seen selling at meets for $10.00+ for $4.00. It
is just like a real auction, sometimes you get it, sometimes you
don't. And life goes on regardless!
Enjoy,
Pat LaTorres
>--
Dan Prysby
How much time left would be proper... in your opinion?
If he met that time limit, would YOU then be sniping if you
rebid a couple minutes after his?
Dan Prysby
Dalman33 wrote:
>
> actually, we were close to each other bidwise. My gripe doesnt have to do with
> his bid amount, it has to do with his waiting until 20 seconds left to go
> before making the bid, knowing there wouldn't be time enough to respond
Mark
What if the bid was only $9k? You think someone would actually bid it
up RISKING having to buy it for that riduculous price? What would
happen when he got to 9,100?
On 17 Dec 1998 01:35:07 GMT, bondo...@aol.com (BondoBill1) wrote:
>>The winning
>>bidder could have submitted a bid of $10,000.00.
>
Mark
proxy-bid $0.50 higher than yours.
Mark
few seconds.
On 16 Dec 1998 13:02:18 GMT, lung...@aol.com (Lungshot1) wrote:
>This is done by a piece of software that automatically notes the current price
>and bids up the price in the last few seconds. You just program in what you
>want and how much you want to spend and the program does it for you without
>tipping your hand early in the auction.
Mark
YOU DON'T!
On 17 Dec 1998 01:01:30 GMT, dalm...@aol.com (Dalman33) wrote:
>Rich, it was a lousy fifty cents. Had it been ten or twenty bucks, I might be
>POd, but I would not have paid $40 for the item anyway. This snake simply said
>at the computer and waited until the last 20 secs and took something I believed
>that I had won. And that is legal, but it sure aint ethical.
Mark
How does the time you bid determine ethics? What if he bid 2 minutes
before the end? How about 5? 30?
At what point does it become "unethical"? The auction ends when it
ends. Any bid up to that point is certainly ethical.
On 17 Dec 1998 01:02:02 GMT, dalm...@aol.com (Dalman33) wrote:
>yes, but is it ethical, THAT is my question
Mark
You have to hit the "RELOAD" button. If you are not there during the
last part of the auction, (just like a real auction) of course you
can't see the other bidders.
You had "no reason to suspect" that someone would outbid you
(regardless of when)?? That's just unreasonable thinking on your part.
You're also missing the other side of this. If I see an item bid up
fairly close to what I would pay with, say, 3 days remaining, I don't
want to bid then for fear it'll go even higher. So, I wait until near
the end (maybe OH MY GOD even the last minute) to place my bid.
You are confusing "unethical" with "smart."
Mark
What if you outbid him with 2 days left? Is that ethical?
If so, why? Because you think so!
What if he was left town 5 seconds before you bid? Did you snipe
him???
On 17 Dec 1998 01:23:40 GMT, dalm...@aol.com (Dalman33) wrote:
>You might be surprised. If I saw that this guy was high bidder for 4 days
>without a bid, I most likely would not have bothered to bid.
Mark
It's the people who bid and who wanted to pay more than what you
deemed the item was worth who have blown prices out of proportion to
what YOU think is reasonable. They obviously think the prices ARE
reasonable.
On Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:46:59 -0500, DjM <sha...@mis.net> wrote:
>And I won't even start in on how e-bay has blown prices way out of proportion.
>
>-=D
>--
>
Mark
You wanted the auction to end when you went to bed!
What if he had bid 20 seconds AFTER you went to bed? Would that have
been fair?
He bid before the end of the auction. That's fair. You didn't stay
"at" the auction until the end. Asi es la vida!
Mark
groups I subscribe to (golf, photography, and radios), all of which
have very active auctions on eBay, THIS IS THE ONLY GROUP in which
there is this whining about sniping.
I could say the same to you: I DO sit on an auction I really want
until the end. Why don't YOU bid like the rest of us!?
On 15 Dec 1998 23:04:56 GMT, dalm...@aol.com (Dalman33) wrote:
>Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping. Sniping is
>waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
>bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a complaint with
>Ebay. I was high bidder on an item for 4 days only to have it literally stolen
>from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
>computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
> If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
roger traviss
: >Some persons on Ebay engage in the unethical practice of sniping. Sniping is
: >waiting until 20 or 30 seconds before the end of an auction to make a final
: >bid, effectively cheating others out of the item. I have filed a complaint with
: >Ebay. I was high bidder on an item for 4 days only to have it literally stolen
: >from me with 20 seconds left. I have a life, I can't sit in front of my
: >computer like a hawk to keep from sniper from picking off my item.
: > If you can't bid on an item like the rest of us, DON'T BID.
Mmmmm. Sounds to me as though someone is a poor loser.
So, you can't sit in front of your computer like a hawk to keep some
sniper picking off "my" item with 20 seconds left? Your item? It's not
YOUR item until you pay for it.
It's an auction. You bid against people. As in all auctions, high
bid takes it. There's a time limit. Any bid placed before the time limit
expires is a fair bid whether it's placed four days or four seconds
before the bidding closes.
Someone out bid you, your disapointed, that's life, that's tough.
Happy Holidays
Roger Traviss
From rainy Victoria, BC Canada
DjM
Patrick LaTorres wrote:
> >I am a customer at e-bay, and I too have been "sniped". But that's not my gripe
> >or point.
> >My point is that e-bay is NOT a conventional auction.
> >And I won't even start in on how e-bay has blown prices way out of proportion.
>
> >-=D
>
> Wrongo! e-bay has done NOTHING to prices.
You're right.
I mis-worded that. It should have read that e-bay is a significant contributor to
the problem of artificially inflated prices ... not just for model railroad items,
but for just about everything posted there.
Example: I used to be able to purchase old postcards at local antique outlets for $1
to $5 generally. At e-bay they usually start out at $4 and end up bringing in $8+.
This has started showing up in local prices, now inflated.
I just don't enjoy seeing what's happened to prices since the inception of e-bay.
Thanks for the correction Pat. :-)
-=D
--
David Mikulec
The DT&I Modelers Page
http://DTI.Railfan.net
Feroz K. Alpaiwalla
..snip
Ebay doesn't force you to reveal your maximum
>bid, so if somebody bids minimum increment over yours and your max
>kicks up to beat it, they still won't know how far they have to go.
>
>-------------------------------------------
>Please reply to aharman at hhcustom dot com
>-------------------------------------------
Andy,
I don't know about that. I am still investigating (by trial and error) but
"shrewd" bidding tactics can cause the revelation of the max bid of the
current high bidder. But as far as a buyer is concerned, there is little to
gain by knowing that. It's a boon for "shilling".
Feroz Alpaiwalla
da...@erinet.com
>
>You're right.
>I mis-worded that. It should have read that e-bay is a significant contributor to
>the problem of artificially inflated prices ... not just for model railroad items,
>but for just about everything posted there.
Wrong again. If the prices on eBay seem "artificially inflated", it
really is a case that any previous "markets" were imperfect (or more
imperfect). EBay has simply opened up the market to a very wide number
of people. The prices are what the buyers are willing to pay and the
sellers willing to sell for -- nothing artificial about that.
>Example: I used to be able to purchase old postcards at local antique outlets for $1
>to $5 generally. At e-bay they usually start out at $4 and end up bringing in $8+.
>This has started showing up in local prices, now inflated.
That's fine, but you local antique outlet doesn't advertise
nationwide, doesn't appeal to buyers in other states, doesn't have to
compare his wares against other antique dealers in other cities or
states.
>I just don't enjoy seeing what's happened to prices since the inception of e-bay.
You don't enjoy paying more -- who can blame you? But don't blame
eBay. Before eBay you simply enjoyed being in a market where the buyer
had a bit more clout, but a lot less selection.
Mark
Somebody actually gets it.