Turnouts/Hand Made & Laid/ Code 83/Info Wanted
Wells A. Hutchins
For 40 years I've been reading "How To" articles. None
has described how to hold the rail for filing the points. Frogs are
relatively easy because the more obtuse angles involved permit the file to
come close to the vise, and provide a short, fairly stiff section of
unsecured rail.
If I had three hands I could hold the file with two, and
keep the free end of the rail from bending with the third.
I would greatly appreciate advice from two-handed modelers
who know the point-filing secrets, and thank them in advance for their
courtesy and assistance.
Wells
hut...@primenet.com
--
Wells A. Hutchins (hutc...@primenet.com)
Xystyx & Tidewater Railroad
Gold Canyon, Arizona
N6EUL
Svein Sando
Wells A. Hutchins wrote:
>
> For 40 years I've been reading "How To" articles. None
> has described how to hold the rail for filing the points. Frogs are
> relatively easy because the more obtuse angles involved permit the file to
> come close to the vise, and provide a short, fairly stiff section of
> unsecured rail.
>
I have filed a preety large number of points, and it goes fairly quick. I fix the foot of the rail
in the vise. Then I can use both hands at the file, with no unsecured rail. I use a rather large
file, because I think filing is boring. I use a finer file at the final strokes.
Good luck.
Svein Sando
Craig Zeni
hut...@primenet.com (Wells A. Hutchins) wrote:
> For 40 years I've been reading "How To" articles. None
>has described how to hold the rail for filing the points. Frogs are
>relatively easy because the more obtuse angles involved permit the file to
>come close to the vise, and provide a short, fairly stiff section of
>unsecured rail.
>
>keep the free end of the rail from bending with the third.
>
> I would greatly appreciate advice from two-handed modelers
>who know the point-filing secrets, and thank them in advance for their
>courtesy and assistance.
>
lay the rail flat on your plywood benchwork, hold it down with your left
index finger, and move the file (in your right hand) across the
surface at an angle, away from you. Sounds a bit awkward, but once you
develop the trick, you can produce point rails quick quickly.
Green Frog Productions
The trick that I learned from a friend is to use a piece of wood as a
clamp. Take a short piece of 2X4 (approx. 3") and lay some rail on
its side on the end of the board. Use a mallet and hammer the rail
making an indention of the rail in the wood. Then drill a hole
through the board so that you can insert a bolt through next to where
you just made the indention. Take a piece of scrap wood a couple of
inches long and big enough that you can drill a hole in it and glue a
nut in the hole. This can now be tightened down on the bolt to clamp
a rail securly while it is filed.
Good luck.
Charlie Brown
Paul Claffey
hut...@primenet.com (Wells A. Hutchins) wrote:
> I would greatly appreciate advice from two-handed modelers
>who know the point-filing secrets, and thank them in advance for their
>courtesy and assistance.
______________________________________
|______________________________________ file <---push!
_
| |
--- | |
| ----- | rail
| ----- |
--- | |
____________ | |
| -
steel |
block |
|
Need I say more! But seriously if my ascii art above is not clear... I hold
the rail against an anchored steel block with one of my two hands. With the
other hand I work a 6" or 8" mill bastard file. I switch to a fin to finish it
off. Good luck and write if this did not help.
Paul
W. Kaiser
Wells A. Hutchins (hut...@primenet.com) wrote:
> For 40 years I've been reading "How To" articles. None
> has described how to hold the rail for filing the points.
>
> If I had three hands I could hold the file with two, and
> keep the free end of the rail from bending with the third.
>
Try it the other way around: hold the rail with two hands and the file
with the third hand. That is, lay the file on the workbench and pull the
rail, held at the proper angle, across it. I've also used a belt sander
for this sort of shaping, too.
I've been building gauge #1 turnouts with code 250 Al rail; these tricks
should work much faster with small rail. Maybe too fast with the belt
sander.
--
Bill Kaiser
wka...@mhc.mtholyoke.edu
There are three ways to do a job: good, cheap, and quick.
You can have any two.
A good, cheap job won't be quick.
A good, quick job won't be cheap.
A cheap, quick job won't be good.
Jack Burgess
I've built probably more than 75 switches for my Yosemite Valley Railroad.
While holding the rail in a vise will work, seriously consider getting a
bench belt grinder if you are going build many switches. The plate for
the grinder can be mounted very close to the belt and it is therefore a
simple operation to grind the backside of the rail for some points in a
matter of a minute or less.
Cliff Grandt (founder of Grandt Line) published a neat tip in the late
1940s for filing the frog rails, which I still use with the belt grinder.
First, cut just the base on one side of the rail with a Dremel tool
abrasive cut-off disk. (This makes it easy to bend the rail to a clean
angle in the next step.)
Next, bend the rail to the compliment of the frog angle; you can use a
plastic jig to control this angle, although it is not all that critical.
The compliment of an angle is 180 degrees minus the frog angle. Thus, if
a No. 6 switch is a 4 degree angle, bend the rail just slightly to a 176
degree angle. You can create this jig by just laying out the frog on a
piece of styrene.
Hold the rail and grind the back side of the bent rail evenly; stop just
before grinding all of the way through the web of the rail. If you do it
right, the rail will still be in one piece, although just barely.
Bend the two halves back toward the ground side. When the edges meet, the
resulting angle will be the frog angle. Add solder and you're done.
If anyone wants to follow this old tip and the directions aren't enough,
e-mail me and I'll send you a .tif or .bmp file with some sketches.
Jack Burgess
jbur...@infolane.com
http://www.infolane.com/yvrr
Fred Flintstone
W. Kaiser (wka...@mtholyoke.edu) wrote:
: Wells A. Hutchins (hut...@primenet.com) wrote:
: > For 40 years I've been reading "How To" articles. None
: > has described how to hold the rail for filing the points.
: >
: > If I had three hands I could hold the file with two, and
: > keep the free end of the rail from bending with the third.
: >
I built a bunch of custom switches for a club layout by using a mill file
in a 4" vise, that way I had both hands free to manipulate the rail. I
found I could control the contour of the cuts by sliding my fingers up
and down the rail as I was filing. (It's easier to do it on a scrap or
two first, the technique will become apparent very quickly). Basically I
used my left hand to hold the rail and move it back and forth, and the
first three fingers of my right hand on the rail near the point-end to
apply pressure and control the cut. The LAST thing you do is cut the
rail to length. (I've seen guys try to do it the other way, and cuss and
cuss and cuss when I showed them the easier way to do it :)
Don't try to keep the rail from bending, you can't. Remember that most
rail in a turnout is bent anyway, and it's relatively easy to straighten
it out.
One other trick I used was to use a grinding disk in a Dremel to do a
quick rough cut of the base of the rail before filing. It saves some
time and aggravation, as the base tends to 'catch' in the grooves of the
file if you start with a square end.
Just my .02 worth from building about 50 of the damn things.
PS It's REALLY worth the effort. Find a well-built handmade switch and
take a good Athearn truck and roll it through it with your fingertip on
the bolster. On a good switch you will not be able to feel the points,
frogs, guardrails, or anything. Now try the same experiment with ANY
store-bought switch. (I specify an athearn freight car truck because
they are not sprung, usually one piece, and transmit irregularities to
your fingertips, which are a hell of a lot more sensitive than your eyes
when it comes to detecting defects.)
Phil Jern
"No my layout isn't done yet! I've only been working on it for 35 years!"
Wells A. Hutchins
As originator of this thread I want to thank all of you who replied.
I'm a net-newbie and am dazzled by the friendly, wanting to help
replies I've seen to my requests, and those of others. I was warned by
well-meaning, non-modelers about flaming and such to "dumb" remarks and
requests on the net. Glad I didn't listen to them.
Again, my thanks to all.
Wells
BVL
The best way I have found to do it is with a vise. I use a Colbert Die Casting
'Panavise'. This is a smaller hobby vise, but very well made and well suited
for this application. If you cannot find one at the hobby shop check the local
electronics supplier. They are a bit pricy, around $30, but well worth it.
Try to get the metal jaws for this work.
Another thing that speeds things up is to cut the points and rough finish them
with a bench grinder. Then use the vise to clean and sharpen them up.
Also, a Mototool and a supply of cutoff disks helps a lot. Rail nippers
work, but you still may have to file burrs.
I will usually cut them over length, and then trim them to the proper length.
Gordon.
In article <hutchwl-0905...@ip014.phx.primenet.com>, hut...@primenet.com says...
>
> For 40 years I've been reading "How To" articles. None
>has described how to hold the rail for filing the points. Frogs are
>relatively easy because the more obtuse angles involved permit the file to
>come close to the vise, and provide a short, fairly stiff section of
>unsecured rail.
>
> If I had three hands I could hold the file with two, and
>keep the free end of the rail from bending with the third.
>
> I would greatly appreciate advice from two-handed modelers
>who know the point-filing secrets, and thank them in advance for their
>courtesy and assistance.
>
> Wells
> hut...@primenet.com
Neal Horner
Are the any books or recent magazines still available which detail
the art of marking turnouts? Some pictures would be worth millions
of words for a first-time turnout turner-outer.
Charles Irby
"Trackwork Handbook for Model Railroads" by Paul Mallery
Carstens Publications, Inc ISBN 911868-86-0
3rd edition still in print.
Chapter 6 is very good.
Ed Dorroh
In article <hutchwl-1205...@ip135.phx.primenet.com>,
hut...@primenet.com (Wells A. Hutchins) wrote:
> As originator of this thread I want to thank all of you who replied.
>
> I'm a net-newbie and am dazzled by the friendly, wanting to help
> replies I've seen to my requests, and those of others. I was warned by
> well-meaning, non-modelers about flaming and such to "dumb" remarks and
> requests on the net. Glad I didn't listen to them.
>
Well, let me add one more way to hold the rail. A friend of mine who
makes lots of these has what seems to me (since I haven't tried it yet) an
obvious solution. He has a piece of 1x4 board with the template(s) taped
down. Then he has a bolt and washer that goes thru this board at the
right place(s) to hold the rail down while he files and solders it. He
makes it look easy!
Someone else asked about articles. There is a trackwork book (probably
Kalmbach but I cna't find mine right now) that includes instructions on
making your own turnouts. If you can't find it, Email me and I will
search soome more. Ed
--
Ed Dorroh
Lockheed Martin Corporation
ed.e....@den.mmc.com
Andy Sperandeo
Neal Horner asked:
>Are the any books or recent magazines still available which detail
>the art of marking turnouts? Some pictures would be worth millions
>of words for a first-time turnout turner-outer.
My favorite, Neal, is an article by Tony Koester in the December 1989 MODEL
RAILROADER, entitled "Building a turnout from scratch." It has just the
kind of step-by-step photo coverage you're looking for. That issue is out
of print, but if you can't find it you can order a photocopy of the article
from Kalmbach Customer Service at 800-533-6644 (414-796-8776 outside the US
and Cananda). I'm happy to endorse Tony's approach because it's pretty
much the way I do it myself.
Good luck,
Andy Sperandeo
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
Rick Vera-Burgos
Neal Horner wrote:
> Are the any books or recent magazines still available which detail
> the art of marking turnouts? Some pictures would be worth millions
> of words for a first-time turnout turner-outer.
There is a recently reprinted book by Paul Mallery that is pretty detailed
(title escapes me right now; I believe it had the word "Trackwork" in it),
and the most recent set of articles I've seen was in Model RailroadING early
in 1995. I haven't actually laid any yet, but I'm starting to feel like the
ONLY way to get good at it fast is to have someone teach you in person. There
seems to be as many different techniques as there are tracklayers, and every
set of written instructions I've seen has left me with lots of questions.
--
Rick Vera-Burgos
Div. Supt. B&O Cumberland Division East End (under construction)
ernf...@indirect.com
In <319B8C...@msn.com>, Rick Vera-Burgos <Ric...@msn.com> writes:
>in 1995. I haven't actually laid any yet, but I'm starting to feel like the
>ONLY way to get good at it fast is to have someone teach you in person. There
>seems to be as many different techniques as there are tracklayers, and every
>set of written instructions I've seen has left me with lots of questions.
The best way to learn fast is to pick a method that sounds good and try it. I
learned by spending a few minutes looking at another guy's turnout and being
assured that it was easy. It was after the first couple. Once I had tried it for
myself I was able to pick up tips from articles. I use the Jack Work technique
described in a previous post. I picked it up from the original article because I
already knew how. Doing is the best way of learning, you won't fail, it just may
take more time than it should.
ernie fisch