Airbrushing With Oxygen
TOM
bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
Jonathan O'Connor
Also, any bottled gas will be completely dry.
Other than that, there should be no chemical effect or lack of one.
JO'C
Skydvr57
>Is there any advantage to airbrushing with oxygen or other inert,
>bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
DONT use Oxygen. Thats a good way to die.
Never, Never use it. Oxygen and Oil do not mix. You dont even need a spark to
cause an explosion. My advise is stay with the compressed AIR!!!!
AJ Kleipass
< JOKE >
How about using LPG or natural gas? If you keep the windows tightly shut
with a few scented candles burning you shouldn't have any problems with the
paint. One extra bonus to this is that, if your building a brass model, the
airbrush can double as a blow torch. :o)
< / JOKE >
A.J. Kleipass owin...@mindspring.com
--------------------------------------------------------
How long ago a flag fell will not matter so long as there are railfans and
modelers to pick it up again and hand it off to the next generation.
TOM wrote in message <372BD215...@funtv.com>...
>Is there any advantage to airbrushing with oxygen or other inert,
>bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
>
><><><> TOM <><><>
>-----------------
john a dalton
>Is there any advantage to airbrushing with oxygen or other inert,
>bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
>
><><><> TOM <><><>
>-----------------
...no, as long as there is no moisture in either...a water trap is
vital, unless you're in Laughlin, Nevada... :))
...btw, oxygen is very "dry" and highly "explosive"...i was joking
about using my oxygen generator for airbrushing...it was a "Sweetie"
thing, something else she was supposed to have caught me doing... :))
...big john... :))
MEAT7
>bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
>
><><><> TOM <><><>
First of all, Oxygen is not inert. When used with acrylics, there shouldn't be
a problem, but when used with flammable paints, it could be problematic. Where
the solvents in those paints pose an explosion hazard in an enclosed space with
prolonged painting, they will displace the oxygen, reducing this hazard (but
increasing the exposure hazard). The local concentrations can be cured with
proper ventilation, but with gases other then air. The air circulation matters
become more critical, and more complicated with non-air gases.
Using oxygen to airbrush, means that you won't be displacing the oxygen, but
maintaining, or increasing it's concentration. Making for a potentially more
combustable mixture.
Venting and air circulation will easily prevent this.
Other gases:
Hydrogen. This is one to deninately avoid, highly explosive, and you would
need ~$1000 worth of stainless steel components to use it.
Nitrogen or Helium. Both of these are good options if using paints that aren't
sesnitive to moisture. They don't transport much water at all. Of course this
isn't much of an issue if you are using acrylics. But again, the problem of
displacing the oxygen in the local enviroment is an issue. Althought neither
is flammable.
Don't even think about chlorine...it will make you vomit for a while, before
you die.
Nitrous oxide will give you a good buzz, but is flammable (as used in 'nitrous
systems' in muscle car drag racing).
Any other gasses will probably be too expensive to consider.
Canned gas (I'm talking about cylinders, not those cans put out by Badger) does
have an advantage over using a compressor. The tanks don't make any noise for
one. And they also produce a very even pressure when regulated properly.
But when using canned gas, make sure that the Cyl. is secured properly. An
insecure K cyl. can fall over, break the vavle stem, and turn into a torpedo,
capable of punching a hole thru 6 feet of concrete.
The 'cans' can be refilled for about $12 (I think, depending on the gas, and
quality, althought I remember Helium 99.9999% being suprisingly cheap, for
now). The cyl. cost ~$50. The big exspence comes in getting the gas out of
the cyl. A good two stage regulator, brass, will run you about $400, stainless
steel is about `$700. And you may want to go to three stages to regulate the
pressure down to the ~15 psi for airbrushing (K cyls hold 2200 psi). Wall
mounted cyl brackets, and the equipment to handle the cyl properly will add to
this, depending on the cyl size. If you are using an air cyl, moisture and
hydrocarbon (oil) traps will be needed. The cost will vary depending on the
deree that you want to clean the air.
I hope that answers your question.
-Scott-
Michael Usoff
TOM wrote:
> Is there any advantage to airbrushing with oxygen or other inert,
> bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
>
> <><><> TOM <><><>
> -----------------
You can always take a snort!! Get oxygenated!! :>)) Mike U.
Roe Thomas
AJ Kleipass wrote:
>
> < JOKE >
> How about using LPG or natural gas? If you keep the windows tightly shut
> with a few scented candles burning you shouldn't have any problems with the
> paint. One extra bonus to this is that, if your building a brass model, the
> airbrush can double as a blow torch. :o)
> < / JOKE >
>
> A.J. Kleipass owin...@mindspring.com
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Any one posting this in jest or not, I would like that person to try first. Roe From "The Great Land".
David A. Moss
As a Fire Marshal for a local volunteer fire department, I can make
a strong argument AGAINST using Oxygen as a propellant for any air
brushing operation!! It is flammable, and extremely dangerous to mix
with any oils or other foreign substances. Also how would you propose
to keep this container from possibly tipping over, knocking off the
valve assembly and instantly turning itself into a rocket that would
probably destroy your home as well as several of your neighbors. A
substitute would be a small air compressor with a storage tank. And a
whole lot safer :-)
Train Man
murals vans, t-shirts, and whatever else someone wanted painted. He used
CO2 when ever he needed to do something quick and didn't want to haul a
compressor. I would reccomend that over Oxygen simply because of the
possible explosion factor...
Jeff
TOM
>
> < JOKE >
> How about using LPG or natural gas? If you keep the windows tightly shut
> with a few scented candles burning you shouldn't have any problems with the
> paint. One extra bonus to this is that, if your building a brass model, the
> airbrush can double as a blow torch. :o)
> < / JOKE >
>
> A.J. Kleipass owin...@mindspring.com
> --------------------------------------------------------
> modelers to pick it up again and hand it off to the next generation.
>
> TOM wrote in message <372BD215...@funtv.com>...
> >bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
> >
> ><><><> TOM <><><>
> >-----------------
Then you wouldn't have to use the wife's oven to cure the paint... :>))
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
TOM
>
> TOM <tom...@funtv.com> wrote:
>
> >Is there any advantage to airbrushing with oxygen or other inert,
> >bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
> >
> ><><><> TOM <><><>
> >-----------------
>
> vital, unless you're in Laughlin, Nevada... :))
>
> ...btw, oxygen is very "dry" and highly "explosive"...i was joking
> about using my oxygen generator for airbrushing...it was a "Sweetie"
> thing, something else she was supposed to have caught me doing... :))
>
> ...big john... :))
Thanks a lot!!! I have all this tubing and valves from the hospital and
thought I could put it to use... Oh well, in th the collectible box it
goes... :>))
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
TOM
>
> TOM wrote:
>
> > Is there any advantage to airbrushing with oxygen or other inert,
> > bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
> >
> > <><><> TOM <><><>
> > -----------------
>
Farm out... Man!
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
Hytekhik
>a strong argument AGAINST using Oxygen as a propellant for any air
>brushing operation!! It is flammable, and extremely dangerous to mix
>with any oils or other foreign substances.
Jeez, you Yanks must use a different kind of Oxygen then we do down here. Our
oxygen supports combustion but is definitely NOT flammable....As a Fire
Marshall, you should be a little more familiar with the characteristics of what
you are using before you post something like that. Just my $0.02 worth.
Interactive Computer-based Personal Proficiency Training Software
Interactive Commercial/Industrial Safety Training Software
Sooner Information Systems, Ltd. http://www.sis-ltd.com/
Skydvr57
>Jeez, you Yanks must use a different kind of Oxygen then we do down here. Our
>oxygen supports combustion but is definitely NOT flammable....As a Fire
>Marshall, you should be a little more familiar with the characteristics of
>what
>you are using before you post something like that. Just my $0.02 worth.
>Interactive Computer-based Personal Proficiency Training Software
>Interactive Commercial/Industrial Safety Training Software
>Sooner Information
Your right there, its not flammable! But it will support combustion. I have
seen things vaporize in front of your eyes, without a flame. It will also
create a flame of 3000 degrees. Stick to air, you might live longer, as well as
your neighborhood.
Scott
Charles F Seyferlich
>
> AJ Kleipass wrote:
> >
> > < JOKE >
> > How about using LPG or natural gas? If you keep the windows tightly shut
> > with a few scented candles burning you shouldn't have any problems with the
> > paint. One extra bonus to this is that, if your building a brass model, the
> > airbrush can double as a blow torch. :o)
> > < / JOKE >
> >
> > A.J. Kleipass owin...@mindspring.com
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > How long ago a flag fell will not matter so long as there are railfans and
> > modelers to pick it up again and hand it off to the next generation.
> >
> > TOM wrote in message <372BD215...@funtv.com>...
> > >bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
> > >
> > ><><><> TOM <><><>
> > >-----------------
>
>
> <><><> TOM <><><>
> -----------------
I use a tank of Acetylene as airbrush propelent. I paint, bake the paint
and barbecue dinner all in one step.
TOM
Whoa, good idea!
Kids (and adults), don't try this at home... :>))
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
Stephen C. Morgan
TOM <tom...@funtv.com> wrote in message news:372C6CA8...@funtv.com...
> > >bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
> > >
> > ><><><> TOM <><><>
> > >-----------------
> >
> > vital, unless you're in Laughlin, Nevada... :))
> >
> > ...btw, oxygen is very "dry" and highly "explosive"...i was joking
> > about using my oxygen generator for airbrushing...it was a "Sweetie"
> > thing, something else she was supposed to have caught me doing... :))
> >
> > ...big john... :))
>
> Thanks a lot!!! I have all this tubing and valves from the hospital and
> thought I could put it to use... Oh well, in th the collectible box it
> goes... :>))
>
> <><><> TOM <><><>
> -----------------
Morgan
David A. McConnell
You could always try Nitrous Oxide.
Life is too important to be taken seriously
Remove xyzzy in E-Mail
(You're at the end of the road again)
TOM
With a portable "power" bottle in a backpack, think how artistic the
taggers could be... Forget that spraycan stuff, they could use the real
thing... :>))
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
C.L.Zeni
>
> TOM wrote:
> >
> > AJ Kleipass wrote:
> > >
> > > < JOKE >
> > > How about using LPG or natural gas? If you keep the windows tightly shut
> > > with a few scented candles burning you shouldn't have any problems with the
> > > paint. One extra bonus to this is that, if your building a brass model, the
> > > airbrush can double as a blow torch. :o)
> > > < / JOKE >
> > >
> > > A.J. Kleipass owin...@mindspring.com
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > How long ago a flag fell will not matter so long as there are railfans and
> > > modelers to pick it up again and hand it off to the next generation.
> > >
> > > TOM wrote in message <372BD215...@funtv.com>...
> > > >bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
> > > >
> > > ><><><> TOM <><><>
> > > >-----------------
> >
> >
> > <><><> TOM <><><>
> > -----------------
>
> I use a tank of Acetylene as airbrush propelent. I paint, bake the paint
> and barbecue dinner all in one step.
And performs Urban Renewal of his neighborhood, too!
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html
Keep off the grass. Or at least don't inhale.
David Thuss
Other than compressed air, compressed Nitrogen is your best choice.
It's dry, safe, and cost is relatively low.
--
Dave
It's all an illusion! (Henning)
TOM
Don't they use nitrogen in passenger and military aircraft tires because
it doesn't change pressure with temperature?
I believe that NASCAR uses it in their tires for the same reason.
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
TOM
Snips
> > I use a tank of Acetylene as airbrush propelent. I paint, bake the paint
> > and barbecue dinner all in one step.
>
> And performs Urban Renewal of his neighborhood, too!
> --
> Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
>
> http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html
>
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood,
A beautiful day for a...
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
patchell
TOM wrote:>
>
> Don't they use nitrogen in passenger and military aircraft tires because
> it doesn't change pressure with temperature?
>
> I believe that NASCAR uses it in their tires for the same reason.
>
> <><><> TOM <><><>
> -----------------
Nope, PV=nRT applies to all gasses.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
-----------------------------------------------------------------
C.L.Zeni
explosion that leveled Mr. Roger's house and his collection of clothing
from Frederick's of Hollywood. Would you kaboom mine?
Oh, did I say something wrong?
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html
Keep off the grass. Or at least don't inhale.
Joe Ellis
> David Thuss wrote:
> >
> > Jonathan O'Connor wrote:
> >
> > > CO2 has got to be cheaper due to its use in soda fountains.
> > > Also, any bottled gas will be completely dry.
> > > Other than that, there should be no chemical effect or lack of one.
> > > JO'C
> >
> > Other than compressed air, compressed Nitrogen is your best choice.
> > It's dry, safe, and cost is relatively low.
> >
> > --
> > Dave
> >
> > It's all an illusion! (Henning)
>
> Don't they use nitrogen in passenger and military aircraft tires because
> it doesn't change pressure with temperature?
>
> I believe that NASCAR uses it in their tires for the same reason.
>
> <><><> TOM <><><>
> -----------------
Say WHAT?? If you've got a gas that can ignore the laws of thermodynamics,
I'm sure a LOT of folks would be interested.
OK, let's look at some things here, folks. There are a lot of gasses you
SHOULDN'T use, and a lot of reasons.
1) Oxygen: No, it's not flammable itself... but it IS an oxidizer (gee,
wonder where that word came from?) In high enough concentrations, some
exposed substances can visibly deteriorate, or burst into flame at lower
than normal temperatures. Substances that you would not normally consider
dangerous become EXTREMELY flammable in a high-oxygen atmosphere. (Anyone
_else_ around here remember Apollo One?)
2) Carbon Dioxide: Use only with adequate ventilation. Concentrations just
marginally above normal atmospheric levels can be mind-numbing... and even
fatal. Chemically inert, does not support combustion, and otherwise
harmless... unless levels are high enough to inhibit transfer of CO2 from
the lungs.
3) Nitrogen: Probably your best choice for a pure gas. Inert, safe, and
found in high enough levels in air that even use in an unventilated space
would probably not be dangerous... FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE PROPELLANT.
The paint itself, however, is another story.
4) Helium: Readily available, inert, and harmless. Used in deep-diving
mixes to inhibit the bends (Nitrogen Narcosis). Of course, there is the
_wee_ problem of sounding like Donald Duck when you go to answer the
phone.
5) So what's wrong with air? Gas mix is right, it's cheaper to put a water
trap in the line than it is to rig all the special equipment for some of
this other stuff... and you can buy a tank cheap, and just run the
compressor to charge it when necessary.
--
Joe Ellis - The Synthetic Filker | _/_/_/_/_/_/_/
| _/ _/
TesserAct Studios | _/_/_/_/_/_/
365 Palm Springs Dr #106 | _/ _/ _/
Altamonte Springs, FL 32701 | _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/
TOM
>
> TOM wrote:>
>
> >
> > Don't they use nitrogen in passenger and military aircraft tires because
> > it doesn't change pressure with temperature?
> >
> > I believe that NASCAR uses it in their tires for the same reason.
> >
> > <><><> TOM <><><>
> > -----------------
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
What part of nope don't I understand?
Common English please... Some of us aren't as smart as you are.
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
TOM
>
> TOM wrote:>
>
> >
> > Don't they use nitrogen in passenger and military aircraft tires because
> > it doesn't change pressure with temperature?
> >
> > I believe that NASCAR uses it in their tires for the same reason.
> >
> > <><><> TOM <><><>
> > -----------------
>
> Nope, PV=nRT applies to all gasses.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit:http://www.silcom.com/~patchell/
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
Found this on an airliner newsgroup:
The FAA has required 100% nitrogen to be used in large aircraft tires
since about 1974. This was not a worldwide rule due to FAA lack of
authority.
Did a search here:
They use it too... Luckily, some memories don't fade... As fast... :<((
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
Michael Usoff
David A. Moss wrote:
> Greetings from upstate New York;
>
> As a Fire Marshal for a local volunteer fire department, I can make
> a strong argument AGAINST using Oxygen as a propellant for any air
> brushing operation!! It is flammable, and extremely dangerous to mix
> with any oils or other foreign substances. Also how would you propose
> to keep this container from possibly tipping over, knocking off the
> valve assembly and instantly turning itself into a rocket that would
> probably destroy your home as well as several of your neighbors. A
> substitute would be a small air compressor with a storage tank. And a
> whole lot safer :-)
>
> TOM wrote:
>
> > Is there any advantage to airbrushing with oxygen or other inert,
> > bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
> >
> > <><><> TOM <><><>
> > -----------------
I think, Tom was refering to small bottles of oxygen, not commercial
bottles. While oxygen is an aid to combustion, in and of itself, it is not
flammable without some supporting fuel. Large welding size tanks of oxygen
can be very dangerous, when the fitting is broken suddenly on a full
bottle, they contain pressures that can shoot it around like a rocket, even
punching holes in concrete block walls. Mike U.
Hudson Leighton
>
> 5) So what's wrong with air? Gas mix is right, it's cheaper to put a water
> trap in the line than it is to rig all the special equipment for some of
> this other stuff... and you can buy a tank cheap, and just run the
> compressor to charge it when necessary.
>
> --
> Joe Ellis - The Synthetic Filker | _/_/_/_/_/_/_/
> | _/ _/
Well for one thing using C02 or Nitrogen is nice and QUITE!!!!!
no compressor grinding away in the corner, no oil or water in the
supply line.
Just open the valve, set the regulator, and away you go.
My last 20lbs of CO2 cost $6, which is the minumim charge at the
welding supply co. I use.
Also you would be amazed how long paint lasts with a nitrogen "head"
in the bottle.
Jason Davies
> Is there any advantage to airbrushing with oxygen or other inert,
> bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
>
> <><><> TOM <><><>
> -----------------
NO!!!! Oxygen is extremely ert.
--
Jason Davies
Master Gizmologist
Cream City Traction Club
HTTP://www.execpc.com/~jdavies/cct.html
Donald Kinney
> > Jonathan O'Connor wrote:
> > > CO2 has got to be cheaper due to its use in soda fountains.
> > > Also, any bottled gas will be completely dry.
> > > Other than that, there should be no chemical effect or lack of one.
> > > JO'C
> > Other than compressed air, compressed Nitrogen is your best choice.
> > It's dry, safe, and cost is relatively low.
> Don't they use nitrogen in passenger and military aircraft tires because
> it doesn't change pressure with temperature?
>
> I believe that NASCAR uses it in their tires for the same reason.
>
> <><><> TOM <><><>
building up in the tires because of the lack of moisture.
Donald
Martin F. O'Rourke
it Explosive or otherwise BOOM if conditions are right. Almost
everything burns around it, watch a flame welder sometime. Even
breathing it can be hazardous to your health. No joke.
Donald Kinney
john a dalton <jape...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:372d096...@news.mindspring.com...
> patchell <patc...@teletrac.com> wrote:
>
> >TOM wrote:>
> >>
> >> Don't they use nitrogen in passenger and military aircraft tires
because
> >> it doesn't change pressure with temperature?
> >>
> >> I believe that NASCAR uses it in their tires for the same reason.
> >>
> >> <><><> TOM <><><>
> >
> > Nope, PV=nRT applies to all gasses.
>
>
>
> ..."PV=nRT'fttttttttt....PV=nPRT'ftftftftft....flop flop flop flop...
>
> ...then you call your insurance agent and find out if you're covered
> or not...
>
> ..."covered for what?"..."a flat tire, sir"..."are you kidding
> me?"..."no, sir, it says here on the card to not move the car unless
> you call youir agent first"...that's for accidents"..."oh, in't a flat
> tire an accident?"..."no, son, it's not...an accident is a sudden and
> violent damage to the car"..."well, this flat tire was sudden and
> violent...it went PV=nRT'fttttttttt....PV=nPRT'ftftftftft....flop flop
> flop flop"..."hey, that was pretty good, son...do it
> again"...""PV=nRT'fttttttttt....PV=nPRT'ftftftftft....flop flop flop
> flop"..."want to be in a local commercial?"... :))
>
> ...big john... :))
Heard in the background: Crash!! "Yes sir, that was my car making that
other noise"...."Yes, sir, I left it in the middle of the street as the card
said not to move it"...."You'll be right out.."""
Donald
TOM
>
> TOM <tom...@funtv.com> wrote in message
> > David Thuss wrote:
> > > Jonathan O'Connor wrote:
> > > > CO2 has got to be cheaper due to its use in soda fountains.
> > > > Also, any bottled gas will be completely dry.
> > > > Other than that, there should be no chemical effect or lack of one.
> > > > JO'C
> > > Other than compressed air, compressed Nitrogen is your best choice.
> > > It's dry, safe, and cost is relatively low.
> > > Dave
> > it doesn't change pressure with temperature?
> >
> > I believe that NASCAR uses it in their tires for the same reason.
> >
> > <><><> TOM <><><>
> building up in the tires because of the lack of moisture.
>
> Donald
And it won't support combustion... A foreign 747 was knocked out of the
sky several years because of this... They had a severely dragging brake
which continued to heat the tire after raising the gear... when the tire
burned through, the 100++ PSI blast of air created a blow torch
effect... That comes from a NTSB site... Nitrogen is now required on all
commercial aircraft tires, world-wide...
Helium was suggested. While lighter, it is many times more expensive
than nitrogen and the weight savings probably isn't worth the expense!
Pretty neat, the stuff you can find by doing a search on the Internet!
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
TOM
>
> In article <372BD215...@funtv.com>, TOM <tom...@funtv.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there any advantage to airbrushing with oxygen or other inert,
> > bottled gas as opposed to compressed air?
> >
> > <><><> TOM <><><>
> > -----------------
>
>
> --
> Jason Davies
> Master Gizmologist
> Cream City Traction Club
> HTTP://www.execpc.com/~jdavies/cct.html
Reminds me of the sign: Be Alert... The world needs more lerts... :>))
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------