Steel rail vs. nickel silver?
Ken Rice
steel (Right O' Way makes it). The idea of using steel is kind of
appealing because, after all, that's what the prototype uses.
Can anyone shed some light on the tradeoffs of steel vs. nickel silver? In
particuler:
- Appearance - which looks better?
- Problems with oxide (rust)?
- Electrical resistance?
- Does it provide better adhesion - to put it another way, can the same
engine pull more cars on steel rail than it could on nickel silver?
- Anything else I should know about?
Thanks in advance,
Ken Rice.
--
Ken Rice
ri...@tiac.net
Steve Rosnick
The biggest disadvantage to steel is it isn't a good conductor.
Unlike the prototype, we rely on the rails to generate our power. The
corrossion and rust can also add to the problems.
I have the early Bachmann EZ Track which I use at NMRA meets to do a
DCC clinic. The steel rail needs to be burnished with a bright boy
everytime I set up. Even at that it doesn't work as well as some
nickle silver flex track I also use.
Go with nickle siler - it'll be btter in the long run. After you
weather the track it looks as good as the real thing!
David_Gibbons
to keep trains running. Perhaps one could 'oil' the steel to help prevent
corrosion, but why bother?
Nickel Silver solders well, is reasonably conductive, and is WIDELY
available. IMHO, it is your best choice.
Good Luck,
David Gibbons
al sharff
conductor, cheap, but only available in Codes 215,250,332 to my
knowledge.
Al Sharff
Michael Sloane
>I recently discovered that it is possible to buy scale rail made out of
>steel (Right O' Way makes it). The idea of using steel is kind of
>appealing because, after all, that's what the prototype uses.
>
>Can anyone shed some light on the tradeoffs of steel vs. nickel silver? In
>particuler:
>- Appearance - which looks better?
>- Problems with oxide (rust)?
>- Electrical resistance?
>- Does it provide better adhesion - to put it another way, can the same
>engine pull more cars on steel rail than it could on nickel silver?
>- Anything else I should know about?
>
>Ken Rice.
I cannot think of any good reasons to use steel rail in a model RR. Real
railroadt use it for one very good reason: is it very strong. On a model,
the strength is not needed, the electrical resistance is very high, it
rusts, it is very difficult to machine, it cannot be soldered, and I
doubt that there is any difference in friction. Oh yes, and bending it
will be a problem. I suppose that the rust on theweb might look
realistic, but the rust on the railhead would be a nightmare.
This, of course, only my own personal biased opinion. If there is
anything to be gained from using steel, I would welccome comments.
Mike Sloane
David Murrell
Interesting comments, but probably a little cautious. I was involved in the
construction of a large exhibition layout built to P4 standards (4mm scale and
18.83 mm gauge) about 7 years ago, and all track/turnouts were hand built
using the British Brooke-Smith method (rail soldered to rivets inserted into
pre-punched plywood slepers - yes, it is tedious) and steel rail was used
throughout. You can solder steel rail, you can plane it to a fine taper eg for
crossings and blades, and even in relatively high humidity rust is not the
problem you might expect...you just have to keep the trains running from time
to time, just as per prototype. The main advantage is appearance...nothing
looks more like steel rail on wooden sleepers than steel rail on wooden
sleepers! By comparison, N/S rail has an almost yellow sheen compared to the
blue of steel, although you might not notice it until you compare the two side
by side.
David Murrell
FREDERICK W DABNEY
etc...
: The main advantage is appearance...nothing
: looks more like steel rail on wooden sleepers than steel rail on wooden
: sleepers! By comparison, N/S rail has an almost yellow sheen compared to the
: blue of steel, although you might not notice it until you compare the two side
: by side.
: David Murrell
In fact, depending on the source of the rail, I've seen N/S rail that
/was/ yellow. Too little nickel in the alloy...
Of course little looks less realistic than /any/ shiny rail, shiny down
to the spike heads. Painting the rail a dark rusty black then cleaning the
head makes it look better- large rail looks smaller as well.
Fred D.
R Blanchard
> =
> I recently discovered that it is possible to buy scale rail made out of
> steel (Right O' Way makes it). The idea of using steel is kind of
> appealing because, after all, that's what the prototype uses.
> =
> Can anyone shed some light on the tradeoffs of steel vs. nickel silver? I=
n
> particuler:
> - Appearance - which looks better?
> - Problems with oxide (rust)?
> - Electrical resistance?
> - Does it provide better adhesion - to put it another way, can the same
> engine pull more cars on steel rail than it could on nickel silver?
> - Anything else I should know about?
I have some old N scale steel track that is a bear to keep clean. The =
rust is way out of scale too! I advise against steel.
A friend of mine used steel rail on his outdoor #1 scale RR and he has =
had problems with the rail popping out of the ties (manufactured =
plastic tie strips). The biggest problem was where the track was in =
full sun and the irrigation system sprayed over onto the tracks. His =
rust got out of scale too! He is switching to nickle silver and =
painting it.
Try a bit on a test track or small oval before committing to it. Maybe =
it will be just what _you_ wanted.
Rick Blanchard z=AC
A. & R. Hobin
>Ken Rice wrote:
>> I recently discovered that it is possible to buy scale rail made out of
>> steel (Right O' Way makes it). The idea of using steel is kind of
>> appealing because, after all, that's what the prototype uses.
>> =
>> Can anyone shed some light on the tradeoffs of steel vs. nickel silver? I=
>A friend of mine used steel rail on his outdoor #1 scale RR and he has =
>had problems with the rail popping out of the ties (manufactured =
>plastic tie strips). The biggest problem was where the track was in =
>full sun and the irrigation system sprayed over onto the tracks. His =
>rust got out of scale too! He is switching to nickle silver and =
>painting it.
Apparently your friend's outdoor is not STAINLESS steel rail. He might want to
investigate Gargraves track. They make a #1 gauge 37" sectional flextrack made
of stainless ateel rail and UVL resistant plastic ties.
For decades Gargraves has had, as part of its track line, stainless steel track
in 2 - 3 rail 0 gauge as well as S gauge.
D K Wombough(HO6178)1467
I've alway thought that nickle silver was the best, so why
does Atlas still manufacuer brass track? It isn't that
much cheaper and Id think that carring two lines of similar
product would be costly.
Dennis.
David_Gibbons
brass track this year...Check their home page!
Dick Lord
>
>Apparently your friend's outdoor is not STAINLESS steel rail. He might want to
>investigate Gargraves track. They make a #1 gauge 37" sectional flextrack made
>of stainless ateel rail and UVL resistant plastic ties.
>
>For decades Gargraves has had, as part of its track line, stainless steel track
>in 2 - 3 rail 0 gauge as well as S gauge.
>
Yes, but Stainless "Steel" is not steel at all. It is a very different alloy.
Steel can be soldered if you can etch the surface (acid-core flux --- ycch!)
but stainless is extremely difficult to bond to, except by mechanical clamps.
--
***____ __I_|HH|_ Dick Lord, Current Technology (603)868-2270
Y___|[]| ,~~~__ | x x | 99 Madbury Rd. Durham, NH 03824
>{|___|__|_|_____|_|_______| r...@curtech.com DCC group NMRA member
/oo--@-@ oo oo oo oo HO B&M/MEC Mountain div. under construction.
al sharff
>
> R Blanchard <bde...@sd.znet.com> wrote:
>
> >Ken Rice wrote:
>
> >> I recently discovered that it is possible to buy scale rail made out of
> >> steel (Right O' Way makes it). The idea of using steel is kind of
> >> appealing because, after all, that's what the prototype uses.
> >> =
>
> >> Can anyone shed some light on the tradeoffs of steel vs. nickel silver? I=
>
> >A friend of mine used steel rail on his outdoor #1 scale RR and he has =
> >had problems with the rail popping out of the ties (manufactured =
> >plastic tie strips). The biggest problem was where the track was in =
> >full sun and the irrigation system sprayed over onto the tracks.
A product to consider is Aluminum rail. It's available Code 215, 250,
and 332 from Llagas, Micro Engineering, and Cal Oregon Coast.
I use it outdoors both hand spiked and with plastic tie strips. We see
temp spreads of 60 deg from cold to hot durring the day and I've never
had it pop out.
It will move-expand & contract but you can plan for that.
Al Sharff
sha...@sierra.net
R Blanchard
>
> >
> >A friend of mine used steel rail on his outdoor #1 scale RR...
>
> Apparently your friend's outdoor is not STAINLESS steel rail. He might want to
> investigate Gargraves track. They make a #1 gauge 37" sectional flextrack made
> of stainless ateel rail and UVL resistant plastic ties.
>
> For decades Gargraves has had, as part of its track line, stainless steel track
> in 2 - 3 rail 0 gauge as well as S gauge.
My friend _did_ have steel rail on his layout initially. He is
_replacing_ the rails with Stainless Steel. He is using code 216 SS or
something close to that size.
Rick
R Blanchard
> Apparently your friend's outdoor is not STAINLESS steel rail. He might want to
> investigate Gargraves track. They make a #1 gauge 37" sectional flextrack made
> of stainless ateel rail and UVL resistant plastic ties.
>
> For decades Gargraves has had, as part of its track line, stainless steel track
> in 2 - 3 rail 0 gauge as well as S gauge.
Well, now I'm not sure if it is Stainless steel or nickle silver.
I'll have to ask him.
Rick
Gerhard J Klose
wrote:
> >to investigate Gargraves track. They make a #1 gauge 37" sectional flextrack
> >made of stainless ateel rail and UVL resistant plastic ties.
> >For decades Gargraves has had, as part of its track line, stainless steel
> >track in 2 - 3 rail 0 gauge as well as S gauge.
>
>
> Steel can be soldered if you can etch the surface (acid-core flux --- ycch!)
> but stainless is extremely difficult to bond to, except by mechanical clamps.
>
it's still steel. The most common alloy is "18-8" which means 18 percent
nickel and 8 percent chrome, almost all the rest is still iron.
You're right, they are more difficult to solder or braze than regular
mild steels and do require special fluxes, etc.
Gerhard J Klose I wouldn't _presume_ to speak for JPL
Caltech-JPL
Pasadena CA 91109 Each generation's music needs to be
818-354-8123 (voice) more obnoxious than the last, or
the previous generation might like it
Tommi Koivisto
I'm never going to make that mistake again. :) It's just that the rail was too
hard to cut - make an isolation cut on the spot and tear 20 yards off sleepers
in the process - and difficult to solder. Although it did _look_ good when
weathered, it was awful to work on. I don't know, maybe it works in larger
scales.
--
.*@@. .@@@. Juhana Siren <jsi...@rieska.oulu.fi>
.@~ @ @~ ~@ Computer Science student at University of Oulu,
V @ @@ Finland
@@ @@@_ (Europe)
@ @ ~@
@ @ &. .@ I was going to put here a memorable quote.
@ @ @@@~ But then I forgot it.
@@
Ken Rice
with nickel silver, given the comparitive difficulty of working with
steel.
Thanks again,