How to model jointed rail?
david d `zoo' zuhn
> On the Hennepin Overland we've been laying simulated jointed rail in
> our passenger depot area. Someone (Walthers? Shinohara?) does make
> HO scale rail joiners with the bolt heads, although separate pieces
> that glue to the rail sides would be even better.
Do I understand these to be modified rail joiners in the model
sense? Does anyone make HO-scale glue-on details that look like
real joint bars but don't actually seve the joiner function??
Yes, rail joiners in the traditional model sense. I *wish* someone
would come up with the glue-on detail part. But I haven't seen or
heard of one anywhere, and we did some fairly extensive searching when
we started this project.
--
david d `zoo' zuhn | Armadillo Zoo Enterprises, St. Paul, MN
z...@armadillo.com | http://www.armadillo.com/ for more info
Robert Heller
hor...@bocaraton.ibm.com (Neal Horner),
In a message on 25 Jul 1996 16:40:29 GMT, wrote :
NH> Flex track sections look like the prototype's Continuous Welded Rail --
NH> how can you make non-mainline track look like the old 37-foot jointed rail?
NH> Does anyone make simulated plates with nut-bolt heads which you can
NH> glue to the side of the rail? Perhaps a line scribed across the top
NH> of the rail at these simulated joints would give a bit of the clickety-
NH> clack sound....
NH>
NH> Neal Horner
NH>
NH>
NH>
You *could* use plain old Atlas snap-track... And get all of the realism of
prototypical sectional track...
--
\/
Robert Heller ||InterNet: Hel...@CS.UMass.EDU
http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller ||FidoNet: 1:321/153
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Douglas A Rohn
In article <c9k9vs9...@tundra.armadillo.com> david d `zoo' zuhn
>
> On the Hennepin Overland we've been laying simulated jointed rail in
> our passenger depot area. Someone (Walthers? Shinohara?) does make
> HO scale rail joiners with the bolt heads, although separate pieces
> that glue to the rail sides would be even better.
>
> soldering them together, but now we just scribe the top of the rail
> with a Zona saw and put the rail joiner at that point.
>
Do I understand these to be modified rail joiners in the model sense? Does
anyone make HO-scale glue-on details that look like real joint bars but don't
actually seve the joiner function??
> We're gluing the rail to Central Valley tie strips.
>
> You don't get much of an additional clickety-clack sound effect, but
> the visual effect is enormous.
I've noticed many magazine covers and other close-up photographs that were a
very close representation of the protoype with the _glaring_ exception of
joint bars.
--
Douglas A. Rohn-----STANDARD DISCLAIMER-----"What...Me worry?"
dar...@giganext.lerc.nasa.gov
a3...@lehigh.edu
Shinohara makes code 100 rail joiners with the bolt heads on them.
Their code 70 rail joiners don't have them, unfortuantely.
Dave Heine
In article <c9k9vs9...@tundra.armadillo.com>, david d `zoo' zuhn <zoo@armadi
llo.com> writes:
>
> Flex track sections look like the prototype's Continuous Welded Rail --
> how can you make non-mainline track look like the old 37-foot jointed rail?
> Does anyone make simulated plates with nut-bolt heads which you can
> glue to the side of the rail? Perhaps a line scribed across the top
> of the rail at these simulated joints would give a bit of the clickety-
> clack sound....
>
>On the Hennepin Overland we've been laying simulated jointed rail in
>our passenger depot area. Someone (Walthers? Shinohara?) does make
>HO scale rail joiners with the bolt heads, although separate pieces
>that glue to the rail sides would be even better.
>
>We started out by cutting the rail into the 39' segments, and then
>soldering them together, but now we just scribe the top of the rail
>with a Zona saw and put the rail joiner at that point.
>
>We're gluing the rail to Central Valley tie strips.
>
>You don't get much of an additional clickety-clack sound effect, but
>the visual effect is enormous.
>
Dave Robinson
darohn@giganext (Douglas A Rohn) wrote in <4t8gmr$o...@sulawesi.lerc.nasa.gov>:
> Do I understand these to be modified rail joiners in the model sense? Does
> anyone make HO-scale glue-on details that look like real joint bars but
> don't actually seve the joiner function??
Just got a brochure from Monongahela Innoventions (Box 204, Myerstown, PA
17067; no phone nor email address) that advertises fishplates, tie plates
and rail anchors in HO. All are .005" etched brass, and are in sizes for
codes 70, 83 and 100. They even tape a sample of each onto the page and
they look very nice.
(I have no connection with them.)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dave Robinson email: da...@amitrix.com
AmiTrix Development, Amiga developers "My opinions are my own"
Edmonton Society of Model Railroad Engineers (HO, N)
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Neal Horner
Flex track sections look like the prototype's Continuous Welded Rail --
how can you make non-mainline track look like the old 37-foot jointed rail?
Does anyone make simulated plates with nut-bolt heads which you can
glue to the side of the rail? Perhaps a line scribed across the top
of the rail at these simulated joints would give a bit of the clickety-
clack sound....
Neal Horner
david d `zoo' zuhn
Are the sections 37' or 39'? I think I've seen both mentioned.
Pick one and use it as the primary length, but don't forget an
occasional shorter piece. The real track isn't made of all one-length
sections, so neither should the model.
George Sebastian-Coleman
Grandt Line Products, 1040B Shary Ct, Concord Ca 94518 makes joint plates. And
your idea for scribing the top of rail works as well.
George
david d `zoo' zuhn
Flex track sections look like the prototype's Continuous Welded Rail --
how can you make non-mainline track look like the old 37-foot jointed rail?
Does anyone make simulated plates with nut-bolt heads which you can
glue to the side of the rail? Perhaps a line scribed across the top
of the rail at these simulated joints would give a bit of the clickety-
clack sound....
On the Hennepin Overland we've been laying simulated jointed rail in
our passenger depot area. Someone (Walthers? Shinohara?) does make
HO scale rail joiners with the bolt heads, although separate pieces
that glue to the rail sides would be even better.
We started out by cutting the rail into the 39' segments, and then
soldering them together, but now we just scribe the top of the rail
with a Zona saw and put the rail joiner at that point.
We're gluing the rail to Central Valley tie strips.
You don't get much of an additional clickety-clack sound effect, but
the visual effect is enormous.
--
Chris Lee
In article <c9k9vs9...@tundra.armadillo.com>, david d `zoo' zuhn <z...@armadillo.com> writes:
|>
|> Flex track sections look like the prototype's Continuous Welded Rail --
|> how can you make non-mainline track look like the old 37-foot jointed rail?
|> Does anyone make simulated plates with nut-bolt heads which you can
|> glue to the side of the rail? Perhaps a line scribed across the top
|> of the rail at these simulated joints would give a bit of the clickety-
|> clack sound....
|>
|> On the Hennepin Overland we've been laying simulated jointed rail in
|> our passenger depot area. Someone (Walthers? Shinohara?) does make
|> HO scale rail joiners with the bolt heads, although separate pieces
|> that glue to the rail sides would be even better.
Shinohara. Although the bolt-heads are only embossed dots, and the joiners
are the same size as the code-whatever joiners you are already using, and
therefore somewhat overscale. Still looks better than the plain joiners
though.
C&L (in England) make etched brass cosmetic fishplates with bolt-head
shaped bolt-heads. In O-scale you can get them mail order from Home
Of O-Gauge whose phone number is in their small ad in the Railway
Modeller.
I don't know who stocks them for 4mm which would be pretty close to HO,
maybe somebody like Puffers.
Both Puffers and home of O-Gauge do international mail order on a credit
card.
If anybody wants either phone number email me at chri...@netcom.com
which I use from home. This reply is from work where I don't have the
magazines.
|> We started out by cutting the rail into the 39' segments, and then
|> soldering them together, but now we just scribe the top of the rail
|> with a Zona saw and put the rail joiner at that point.
I saw and heard this on on one of the Keighley group's North Eastern Ry
layouts: they'd notched the rails to give the diddley-dum, diddley-dum
noise of the wheels at the joints.
It's a great effect.
|> We're gluing the rail to Central Valley tie strips.
|>
|> You don't get much of an additional clickety-clack sound effect, but
|> the visual effect is enormous.
In the larger (heavier scales) you get both.
R Blanchard
Robert Heller wrote:
> You *could* use plain old Atlas snap-track... And get all of the realism of prototypical sectional track...
If you don't mind having rails that are over a foot high in N scale!
--
Rick Blanchard
WWW pages:
'da trains!' -- http://members.aol.com/Ntrainszo/web/
SLIM RAILS -- http://members.aol.com/izoi/slim-rails/slim.html
David Ryujiro Olsen
Are the sections 37' or 39'? I think I've seen both mentioned.
Dave
Craig Zeni
hor...@bocaraton.ibm.com (Neal Horner) wrote:
>In <c9hgqva...@tundra.armadillo.com>, david d `zoo' zuhn <z...@armadillo.com> writes:
>>
>> Are the sections 37' or 39'? I think I've seen both mentioned.
>>
>>occasional shorter piece. The real track isn't made of all one-length
>>sections, so neither should the model.
>>
>> david d `zoo' zuhn | Armadillo Zoo Enterprises, St. Paul, MN
>> z...@armadillo.com | http://www.armadillo.com/ for more info
>>
>
>joints from side to side so the wheels on one axle don't hit joints
>on both rails at the same time.
>
>Neal Horner
I believe that this is standard practice in the US. I understand,
however, that European practice is matching the joints. Having seen track
in Europe from stations only, I don't know if this is correct. Any help
from Across The Pond?
Neal Horner
john haskey
In article <c9ivbc9...@tundra.armadillo.com>,
david d `zoo' zuhn <z...@armadillo.com> wrote:
>
> Do I understand these to be modified rail joiners in the model
> sense? Does anyone make HO-scale glue-on details that look like
> real joint bars but don't actually seve the joiner function??
>
>would come up with the glue-on detail part. But I haven't seen or
>heard of one anywhere, and we did some fairly extensive searching when
>we started this project.
>
Aren't these things usually called 'fish-plates'???
---john.
--
---
jo...@netcom.com
Proud owner of a II/8 Balcom & Vaughn and an Allen Models 0-4-2T
Visit my *embryonic* home page at http://www.netcom.com/~johnh
David Nebenzahl
>Do I understand these to be modified rail joiners in the model sense? Does
>anyone make HO-scale glue-on details that look like real joint bars but don't
>actually seve the joiner function??
Seems as if one ought to be able to cobble up something out of styrene, with
commercial N/B/W castings to simulate bolts. A little super glue, and voila!
Bill Daniels
n...@microtech.com (David Nebenzahl) wrote:
>>Do I understand these to be modified rail joiners in the model sense? Does
>>anyone make HO-scale glue-on details that look like real joint bars but don't
>>actually seve the joiner function??
Grandt Line.
Matt Conrad
john haskey <jo...@netcom.com> wrote:
> According to Walthers, Grandt Line makes them for O scale but that's it.
> Aren't these things usually called 'fish-plates'???
That seems to be a modeler's myth. I'm an active volunteer at the SC RR
Museum, and do a good bit of trackwork. I've heard the real things
called "joint bars," "angle bars", and just plain "bars," but never
"fishplates." I think "fisplates" might be either a term imported from
across the pond, or used only by modelers.
--
-Matt Conrad, Artist, J.M.Conrad Co., jmco...@InfoAve.net
Providing fine art and Mac software for train nuts like myself.
http://web.InfoAve.net/~jmconrad/
The gelding's name is "No Steam."
JTunnel
"Fish plates" is an English (England) term as is "sleeper", "goods wagon",
etc. I work with some Irishmen in a mining related construction and they
always refer to rail joint bars as "fish plates". BTW a "sleeper" is a
railroad tie.
John Mc.
Neal Horner
In <4tb0qp$e...@news.aimnet.com>, n...@microtech.com (David Nebenzahl) writes:
>>Do I understand these to be modified rail joiners in the model sense? Does
>>anyone make HO-scale glue-on details that look like real joint bars but don't
>>actually seve the joiner function??
>
>commercial N/B/W castings to simulate bolts. A little super glue, and voila!
>
Yes, you could make them yourself one at a time from itty-bitty pieces, but
consuming them at a rate of 2 for ever 5.4 inches of track means you would spend
a lot of time fabricating them. A nice product from someone would be a
molded tree of parts, 20 at a time (or more)....
Neal Horner
David Nebenzahl
>Yes, you could make them yourself one at a time from itty-bitty pieces, but
>consuming them at a rate of 2 for ever 5.4 inches of track means you would
spend
>a lot of time fabricating them. A nice product from someone would be a
>molded tree of parts, 20 at a time (or more)....
That would be nice. In the meantime, you could make a few masters out of
itty-bitty pieces, make some RTV molds and cast as many as you need.
Maybe you should forward your idea to Grandt or another mfr?
Lawrence Boul
Dr S.J. Harris
In article <4ti9ve$c...@bocanews.bocaraton.ibm.com> hor...@vnet.ibm.com writes:
>In <4tb0qp$e...@news.aimnet.com>, n...@microtech.com (David Nebenzahl) writes:
>>>Do I understand these to be modified rail joiners in the model sense? Does
>>>anyone make HO-scale glue-on details that look like real joint bars but don't
>>>actually seve the joiner function??
>>
>>Seems as if one ought to be able to cobble up something out of styrene, with
>>commercial N/B/W castings to simulate bolts. A little super glue, and voila!
>>
>
>consuming them at a rate of 2 for ever 5.4 inches of track means you would spend
>a lot of time fabricating them. A nice product from someone would be a
>molded tree of parts, 20 at a time (or more)....
>
These things exist in the UK - C&L make them in plastic. Someone else (I can't
remember who!) make brass ones. These are designed to fit UK finescale 4mm
code 75 track (so will probably fit US H0 code 83 too).
Simon
Don Ready
Jack Parker of Central Valley made injection molded rail joiner plates
for his own Northern Pacific layout. He then scribed the top of the rail
every scale 37', gluing the joiner plates to the side of the rail. After
weathering the visual result was fantistic.
--
Don Ready phone +1 805 541 6666
Director of Tech. Operations fax +1 805 541 5142
KSBY-TV email dre...@ksby.com
467 Hill Street www http://www.ksby.com
San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
Ken Rice
In article <4tbi0d$h...@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Craig Zeni
<C.L....@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> hor...@bocaraton.ibm.com (Neal Horner) wrote:
> >In <c9hgqva...@tundra.armadillo.com>, david d `zoo' zuhn
> I believe that this is standard practice in the US. I understand,
> however, that European practice is matching the joints. Having seen track
> in Europe from stations only, I don't know if this is correct. Any help
> from Across The Pond?
For what it's worth I have a Canadian National Railways Maintenance-of-Way
rules & instructions book from 1939 that says:
rule 235:
"The standard length of new rails being purchased is 39 feet. A small
percentage of short rails will be supplied in lengths of 36, 33, and 30
feet in Canada and in lengths, varying by one foot, from 38 feet to 25
feet in the U.S.A."
rule 254:
"All laying of rail on main tracks of Class A, B, and C lines must be done
with "staggered joints", that is - with the ends of the rail on one side
opposite the centre of the rails on the other side. The joints on one side
must not vary more than 24 inches from the middle of the opposite rail. On
main tracks of Class D & E lines rail may be laid with either staggered,
square, or "hit and miss" joints, as instructed by the Regional Chief
Engineer."
rule 256:
"Rails shorter than 10 feet must not be used in main track. Short rails
must be used, where necessary, for the inside of curves of large central
angle in order to maintain the position of joints (See rule 254). The
difference in length of the inner and outer rails of a curve, in feet, is
found by dividing the number of degrees in the central angle of the curve
by twelve. Short rails may be used on tangetns and as closure rails in the
ledas of turnouts."
--
I'm curous why the Canadians only get 3 custom lengths, but the Americans
get 1 foot intervals. It's possible to maintain the 24 inch rule in rule
254 with either, of course.
Also, something doesn't sound right about that rule for calcuating the
difference in rail length.
--
Ken Rice
ri...@tiac.net
Matt Conrad
Craig Zeni <C.L....@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >And I get the impression that the real track layers try to stagger the
> >joints from side to side so the wheels on one axle don't hit joints
> >on both rails at the same time.
> >
> >Neal Horner
>
> I believe that this is standard practice in the US. I understand,
I don't know about mainline practice. However, the big blister on my
right hand, the incredibly sore muscles, and chafed legs I got doing
trackwork on the SC RR Museum's Rockton, Rion & Western RR this past
Saturday qualify me to discuss shortline practice, I do believe! :o)
On the RR&W, you may or may not find rail joints staggered, but usually
you will. I can say with some *considerable* conviction that if the
joints are not at the same level, a track speeder that is too "tight"
*will* derail on opposite or almost-opposite joints! (Trust me!) IMHO,
staggered rail joints are mostly the result of curves. The outside rail
of a curve travels a longer distance than the inside rail, so if each
rail legnth is 39 feet (standard), the joints will become staggered on
your first curve. Switches will introduce a stagger as well, since it's
not a good idea to have a joint directly opposite a switch frog, and why
bother cutting a rail to make up the difference?.
Another thing that contributes to joint stagger is rail legnth. 39 feet
may be standard, but all rails might not be 39 feet long, especially on
a shortline. Frequently, railroads will cut the ends off a rail that has
a defect which only affects the ends, such as a bolt hole crack. These
rails are just fine and can be reused or sold to shortlines such as the
aforementioned RR&W.
Simply put, staggered joints are safer unless the joints are *exactly*
opposite one another. Going to all that effort to get the joints
directly opposite is silly. It wastes materials, and as soon as the sun
hits the track the expansion of the rails is going to move the joints as
much as an inch anyway.
PRKing
Re jointed rail:
1. UK railways use rail joints NOT staggered - where they occur - most
mail lines now use CWR - Continuous Welded Rail, relying on heavy concrete
sleepers (ties US) well packed into deep ballast to resist expansion /
contraction stresses due to temperature variations.
2. The 15" gauge Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway started life with
staggered joints but they found this provoked severe rolling of the locos
and returned to the usual UK practice.
3. Try putting a small microphone under one of your rail joints (model
railroad, that is!) with an amp. and speaker. This gives a realistic sound
of wheels as they strike the rail end. Used at Pendon Museum, Oxfordshire
where the sound is blended with that of the commentator as background.
Paul King.