What happened to New York?
Ken (NY)
absolutely no CRAFT train shops.
I live on Long Island and the only shop I found that carried
decent MRR craft supplies, (Willis Hobby Shop, Mineola) has turned
into a toy store with no model RR craft kits. The shelves are filled
with Athearn "shake the box to construct" kits. I am in On30 and even
the On3 kits have disappeared. I am reduced to 100% mail order for my
supplies. Is model craft-level model railroading in New York
disappearing for good?
Regards,
Ken (NY)
--
Chairman,
Department Of Redundancy Department
____________________________________
http://www.danielfaulkner.com/
for the truth about Mumia Abu-Jamal
No trees were harmed to bring you this e-Presentation...
Lester D. Shubin
disappear.
Lester
JBortle
>disappearing for good?
I'm afraid that is the trend. To the north of NYC there currently is only one
such shop on the east side of the Hudson River between White Plains and Hudson,
NY, a distance of about 75 miles. Twenty years ago there were a number.
jbortle
RAILDATA
show every weekend every 100 miles or so.
Frank A. Rosenbaum
Rockland county and a total train store. I can give you directions from
Westchester County, 'cause that is where I use to live.
Bob, the owner is a great guy and knows his stuff. If you get there, tell
him Frank from the Westchester Model Railroad Club sent you.
Also, if you can get to Old Greenwich CT on the 25th of February, the
Westchester Model Railroad Club is having its 29th annual train meet from 10
am to 3 pm. Take I 95 to exit 5 in Old Greenwich, CT. At the end of the
exit ramp, turn right. Go to the next traffic light and turn right again.
Follow that road bearing right until you come to the middle of a lake. There
is a T intersection there. Make a left onto that road. (Forest Road). Take
that to the end, and you will see the Old Greenwich Civic Center in front to
the left of you. Turn left and left again into the parking lot.
If you go there, Tell Bob Wilson, Doug Kadow, and Sal Mancino I said Hello.
--
Frank R.
Note New EMAIL address: faros...@mediaone.net
The train club I belong to is the Gratiot Valley. See us at:
http://chives.michvhf.com/~gvrr/index.htm
+-------------------------+
| DO NOT FEED |
| THE TROLLS |
+-----------+-+---------+
| |
| |
| |
| |
....\\|.|/....
If at first you don't succeed, throw it in the spare parts box.
Thanks to Lindy9113
Ken (NY) <ken4...@usa.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:3a871c08...@news3.speakeasy.net...
Mark Smith
,,,,,,,,,,
> I have heard it suggested that they should turn Manhattan into a penal
> colony... :)
I thought it was !!!
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:ma...@trikite.com
john a dalton
>I have heard it suggested that they should turn Manhattan into a penal
>colony... :)
>
>What sayeth thee Big John <g>?
....it already is.....i've heard of people trying to "borough" their
way out through "Holland", only to wind up in Hillary, Noojoisy.....
:))
.....big john..... :))
EBTBOB
You asked about the lack of train or hobby stores in the New York area.
Let me put in my two cents.
I work partime in a train store in the n.w. subs of Philadelphia. We are
the only train store in the area. In the same town is a regular hobby
shop(trains, boats, planes) and about 8 miles away is another hobby
shop(trains, boats, planes, & crafts)
For an area that is growing with urban sprawl like we have here, it does
not seem resonable to have such a lack of available hobby/train stores.
I think there is one basic problem. Yes there are a lot of shows, but
not enough to ruin a busines. I will not get into the mail order business
argument that pops up here all the time. Internet business? To me it is the
same as mail-order.
I think the one fact is that hobbies in general, not just railroading, are
dying! We now have a whole generation of parents who grew up without hobbies
as we define them.
Why no hobbies? We have a instant gratifcation, ready to run society.
Adults and children, today, are not inclined to spend significat time working
on something, like a model railroad, they just want to "play" with it. Let me
add here, that many parents, today, do not have as much time for hobbies as my
parents did because of work requirements(more time spent on the job or jobs) to
make ends meet.
Young parents come into my store and tell me they want to get a train set
for their child for Christmas. First question from me - what scale?. Response
- blank look!(Insert "Duuuuuh" here). Ok, so now I am forced to educate them
on scale. Usually takes 5 minutes. Next question - steam or diesel. Response
- correct, longer Duuuuuuuuuuuuuh. Again, education. Usually takes 5-10
minutes.
Once the education part is out of the way, they then get into what
subject? Safety, after all, something is using electricity here.
When all is said and done, you are left with the chore of trying to supply
this customer with a product, that, 1) the child will like, and 2) Mom or Dad
does not have to do anything with the child. Let him/her play with it.
I would love to take the time an space here to share more with you about
what it is like to work in or run a hobby/train store in this day and age,
but I am getting writers/brain cramp. All in all, hobbies are dying and it is
a shame. People really miss out on the relaxation and fun that a true hobby
brings.
Bob Rule, Jr.
EBT...@aol.com
www.Linsjunction.com
www.gatsme.org
Trainman
have taken me to task for suggesting that someone could actually BUILD a
model rather than buy one.
Don
--
don.de...@prodigy.net
http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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EBTBOB <ebt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010212073435...@ng-fw1.aol.com...
> Ken,
>
(text deleted)
> Why no hobbies? We have a instant gratifcation, ready to run
society.
> Adults and children, today, are not inclined to spend significat time
working
> on something, like a model railroad, they just want to "play" with it. Let
me
> add here, that many parents, today, do not have as much time for hobbies
as my
> parents did because of work requirements(more time spent on the job or
jobs) to
> make ends meet.
(more text deleted)
Trainman
or "craftsman kits".
What goes to train shows is table after table of discounted Bachmanns and
P2K's.
Don
--
don.de...@prodigy.net
http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
moderator: WisMode...@yahoogroups.com
host: MRP...@yahoogroups.com
RAILDATA <rail...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010211202124...@ng-mg1.aol.com...
Ken (NY)
<faros...@mediaone.net> excitedly exclaimed:
>Ken, If you can escape the metro region, get to Blauvelt New York. It is in
>Rockland county and a total train store. I can give you directions from
>Westchester County, 'cause that is where I use to live.
>Bob, the owner is a great guy and knows his stuff. If you get there, tell
>him Frank from the Westchester Model Railroad Club sent you.
>
>Also, if you can get to Old Greenwich CT on the 25th of February, the
>Westchester Model Railroad Club is having its 29th annual train meet from 10
>am to 3 pm. Take I 95 to exit 5 in Old Greenwich, CT. At the end of the
>exit ramp, turn right. Go to the next traffic light and turn right again.
>Follow that road bearing right until you come to the middle of a lake. There
>is a T intersection there. Make a left onto that road. (Forest Road). Take
>that to the end, and you will see the Old Greenwich Civic Center in front to
>the left of you. Turn left and left again into the parking lot.
>
>If you go there, Tell Bob Wilson, Doug Kadow, and Sal Mancino I said Hello.
Thanks, Frank. Now that I am retired, I can travel just about
anytime or place.
BTW, I just picked up my copy of MR from July, 1955 and
compared it with the issue of January, 2001:
Totals: '55 2001
NY City area- 18 6
NY State- 34 34
Of those now in New York State, NYC has one shop while little
Buffalo has five. All of those in the NYC area and Long Island appear
to be shake-the-box or toy stores.
JBortle
> I think the one fact is that hobbies in general, not just railroading,
>are
>dying! We now have a whole generation of parents who grew up without hobbies
>as we define them.
>
and hobbies a few years back and came to the same conclusion.
Closer to home, MR magazine used to publish a survey about its readership every
5 years, portraying the "average" modeler. In the mid 1950's he was about 30-32
years old. This median age grew only slowly at first, aging about 2 years for
every five that actually passed. By the 1980's the average age was in the low
to mid forties and about a decade ago was around 50. MR stopped publishing its
own surveys after that but did include one by the NMRA a few years back. That
one had the average age in the mid to upper 50's. So your see that we are
pretty much dealing with the same generation (or perhaps the pre-war and the
early Boomer generations) down through the years enjoying our hobby. Kind of a
scarry outlook for the future.
Incidentally, there was a very interesting and extensive discussion of the past
and possible future of our hobby on here about 6-12 months ago. It's worth
going back and locating if you are interested in the subject.
jbortle
Ctyclsscs
Railway Society Show in West Springfield, MA that really seemed to be
interested in trains.
I mentioned it to a few other exhibitors who concurred with my observation.
Maybe some young folks are tiring of sitting in front of a screen. I just hope
what I saw was the start of a trend and not a figment of my imagination!
Jim Sacco
http://cityclassics.fwc-host.com
Ken (NY)
exclaimed:
Thank you. I really hadn't thought of it that way, but I
believe that you are correct. The only hobbies that today's kids have
is playing the guitar and hoping to be the next rock star. Sad that
the grandparents are not sharing with their children's children the
joys of building something and seeing it work - whether it be an R/C
boat, car or locomotive.
Perhaps if the clubs got together to provide a stimulus by
displaying a portable layout at the country fair or at the local mall,
the younger generations would be looking for kits. Naw.
Train Man
EBTBOB wrote:
> Ken,
>
> You asked about the lack of train or hobby stores in the New York area.
> Let me put in my two cents.
>
I think you've more hit the nail on the head with #2 below... "Mom or Dad", usually
both, "does not have to do anything with the child. Let him/her play with it.".
What is the easiest thing to do to occupy junior for hours and be reasonably sure
of his/her physical safety? Video Games... Right?
Young parents, junior probably hasn't topped 5 years yet and they think it will be
cute if santa brings him/her a train set. All the while, truth is, you could give
him the box the train set came in and he would be just as happy. He won't care
about the track as he'll want to line the cars up and push them around by hand. I'm
not talking about the kids who have model rails for parent(s). THEY will grow up to
be model rails (or aviators, or ...) themselves. May take awhile but they'll get
there. I'm talking about the 29 something yuppie who is convinced that having a kid
is a financial ecological burdon rather than the should be treasured gift that it
is. Kids haven't really changed. They basically start out the same way, I think we
can all agree on that. What has changed is how they are dealt with and raised.. and
you are also right about that to imo, Instant gratification.....not for junior, but
for Mom and Dad, from that nagging kid. The parents like Pez Mom (and I know there
are others here in the cyber train-room, she just comes to mind) are the ones who
will insure that hobbies like this survive.
Now, as to the train shops in general... This is just my opinion, agree or
disagree, you are entitled to yours but this one is mine. Ready? Two words..
Technology and Walthers, and I don't refer to either in a really bad way. It's just
the nature of the beast. As fantastic as some of the technology has made these toys
we play with, it has also priced them out of the range of a lot of people. People
who, in a lot of cases, are living way beyond their means so they simply don't have
the cash to invest in an expensive hobby like this one. Regardless of how you
approch it, it IS an expensive hobby to start out in.. Even some of the el-cheapo
train sets retail in the $100 range. The walthers effect on pricing has been
bludgened to death in another thread so I won't repeat it here.
EBTBOB, if you still work in that hobby shop, don't give up on educating the folks.
For ever 4 or 5 blank stares you get, 1 other will probably walk out of there with
an Athearn (or other) engine, some track, a power pack, some cars, etc... and he'll
come back for more BECAUSE someone took the time to explain it to him.. The
interest was there, that's what brought him/her to you to begin with. Most of the
blank stare people, I am convinced, walk around like that all the time.. not just
in your store.
The opinions shared within this text, are mine. Agree or disagree, you are entitled
to yours, but these are mine.
Jeff
arrakis
As a kid growing up in the 60's,it was all Aurora HO cars,Johnny
Lightning,and Schwinn Orange Crates and none of my friends had trains
or layouts.Now it is all video games,aggresive roller blades,razor
scooters,and Pokemon cards for my 11 year old nephew.Gave him a train
set for Xmas,and he played with it for a day,and it was back to all his
Gundam Wing models and figures.
>
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Dave Gayman
under-18ers. My impression was as much as 20% of the crowd was kids,
and most were fascinated, something that wouldn't happen if grand-dad
had dragged them there against their will. Maybe someone from the
Ahmerst society will chime in with attendance/ticket info?
Overheard a half dozen instances when the young one was explaining to
the parent (or babysitter, who knows?) about locomotive / car / layout
details.
HUGE crowd of little people, locomotive high, around a gorgeous live
steamer as the engineer, astraddle, explained what they were looking
at.
Maybe we can continue this thread, on and off, with demographic
observations at other shows as the year progresses?
In fact, I'm wondering if there isn't maybe a generation leap. I'm in
my late 50s with a lifelong interest. My kids (now adults) have
always shown minimal interest, but their kids...? Who really knows?
I'm not really old enough yet to believe that the human race has
declined continuously since Adam & Eve (or our transmogification from
primal ooze, take your pick). There may be hope yet for a hobby that
requires patience, knowledge and step-by-step learning...
Dave
On 12 Feb 2001 14:26:55 GMT, ctyc...@aol.com (Ctyclsscs) wrote:
>For what it is worth, I noticed a number of young people at the recent Amherst
>Railway Society Show in West Springfield, MA that really seemed to be
>interested in trains.
>
>Jim Sacco
>http://cityclassics.fwc-host.com
BondoBill1
and that is hurting the retail aspect of a hobby shop.This either forces osme
to the Internet, or to mail order. Forgetting weither or not the economy is
slumping, stagnating or growing, hobbies are now expensive, and when something
gets expensive people are a bit slow to spend.
When I was really active in the hobby itself and not in manufacturing aspect it
not uncommon for a brass importer to make a few hundred pieces of an engine,
which kept costs to a palatible level. Once brass started to have a dealer net
of $450 plus, the brass market started to dry up. With $10 box cars, $90
engines, and $20 plus dollars to set up one turnout, people are a bit more
hesitant to spend. You can transpose this to any of the hobbies. The $3.95
1/24th scale plastic car model of yesterday is now $10.95 to $14.95, even
though it is a re-release of a kit made years ago. The $49.95 Tamyia Enterprise
aircraft carrier is over $300. You can even see this with collector cars. As
late as 1990 you could get into an antique (over 25yrs old) car for around
$750 to $1000, today, you can't touch a starter for less than $5000, with the
understanding that you are going to sink another $20,000 in until its done, and
most cars won't be worth what you got in them anyway.
Hobbies are expensive, instant gratification plays an important factor also.
People are intimidated by building thingss. How many people when they see your
railroads marvel that you actually built it.
I would also suspect that many of todays hobby shops are businesses setup by
folks on a pension that assures them an income, and that the last vestiges of a
hobby shop that is the owners own source of income are dying off.
How many stores are really succcessful, and what are the demographics of their
areas. Also look into the areas where trains are a hobby, see if the kids in
that area are exposed to trains daily. Is their a line thru town, other than a
commuter RR. Its not an easy business.
john a dalton
>What has killed the model railroad shopsin NY and PA is that there is a train
>show every weekend every 100 miles or so.
......i see a definite trend here.....the train shows are gonna kill
the internet....i knew it all along.....i remember wahat the Chataqua
Circuit did to silent movies.....the next thing we knew was talking
pictures......it won't be long till folks on RMR will be face-to-face,
admiring, criticizing, BS'ing, sharing stories.....it will all go to
just fun, no more sober-sides..... :))
.....big john..... :))
john a dalton
>Ken, If you can escape the metro region, get to Blauvelt New York. It is in
>Rockland county and a total train store. I can give you directions from
>Westchester County, 'cause that is where I use to live.
>Bob, the owner is a great guy and knows his stuff. If you get there, tell
>him Frank from the Westchester Model Railroad Club sent you.
>
>Also, if you can get to Old Greenwich CT on the 25th of February, the
>Westchester Model Railroad Club is having its 29th annual train meet from 10
>am to 3 pm. Take I 95 to exit 5 in Old Greenwich, CT. At the end of the
>exit ramp, turn right. Go to the next traffic light and turn right again.
>Follow that road bearing right until you come to the middle of a lake. There
>is a T intersection there. Make a left onto that road. (Forest Road). Take
>that to the end, and you will see the Old Greenwich Civic Center in front to
>the left of you. Turn left and left again into the parking lot.
>
>If you go there, Tell Bob Wilson, Doug Kadow, and Sal Mancino I said Hello.
>
>--
>Frank R.
.....wait'll we show up in the motorhome with Sweetie and all 9
goats.....i wonder if they'll be able to unnnnnerstand us ?......we'll
bring goodies and $$$.....peace offering.....a $24 foot-locker full of
old couplers....."we want a REFUND !!!"....."yeah, yeah, store credit
is fine"....."we'll take that old Athearn kit that's marked
$2.37'....."geez, how do you guys stay in business ?"..... :))
.....big john..... :))
Ernie Fisch
2000
> For what it is worth, I noticed a number of young people at the recent Amherst
> Railway Society Show in West Springfield, MA that really seemed to be
> interested in trains.
At the last swap meet we set up our modules along with several other
groups. We made the decision not to run in circles but actually have
the
local make pickups and setouts. The yard was used to break up and
make up trains.
The trains were short and each local job took about an hour. We had
one kid who sat in front of the modules for about 3 hours watching us
do
something.
Only one kid, but he was hooked.
--
ernie fisch
Dennis E. Golden
out of watching a locomotive you built pull a train down the track? Wow! I was
beginning to think I was the only one.
Den
Trainman
else has!
Don
--
don.de...@prodigy.net
http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
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Dennis E. Golden <dgo...@warwick.net> wrote in message
news:3A88991C...@warwick.net...
Rick Jones
>
> Is model craft-level model railroading in New York
> disappearing for good?
> Regards,
> Ken (NY)
Unfortunately that seems to be the sad, sad case.
--
Rick Jones
Remove the Extra Dot to e-mail me
A Smith & Wesson beats 4 aces.
David Woodell
disappear.
Lester
Sounds like a pretty darn good idea to me!
Seriously. I don't know about the "local" hobby shops, but after a few
times of doing business with the mail order, advertise in MR, etc.,
shops, I decided to look at their address first. If they were from
anywhere in NY, NO THANK YOU. No way. Not doing business with them.
Seemed like the service I got from all the ones I tried to do business
with was below sub-par. They didn't seem to know or care about anything
except taking an order. If there happened to be a problem after the
order was placed or received (and usually after my CC was charged),
there was no help to be found. To top it off, seems like most of those
businesses had people answering the phone (could've been *everyone*
involved with those businesses for all I know) that could just *barely*
speak English (or American depending upon how you look at it and which
side of the "pond" you are on!). Just "Can I take your order" and "
Sorry, no can help, find someone else for you." dial tone... Call again,
"We no warranty, try maker." dial tone... "I only take order. You need
something else, call..." dial tone, or the worst one of all "I get
someone to call you back." dial tone... Of course I never heard from
someone else. As I said, I started looking or their USPS mail addresses
and if it was a NY address I did not call them. Things have changed
some. There are more options now, I try to buy from Big Al (aka
EC...@aol.com, dba www.trainsarefun.com), and there are probably some
businesses in NY that are ok. It's just that the ones that advertised in
the back of the mags, that had decent prices *advertised*, left such a
bitter taste that I started avoiding all businesses with a NY address.
Maybe experiences like mine are the cause of questions like the one of
the original poster.
David
BTW: I have no connection with Al or his business. I just like his
service. Got a question? Ask. Within 48 hours at most, you have his
answer. There are a few (very few) places with better prices, but I can
think of none with better customer service. If you factor in low prices
and good service, there's no comparison. Combine prices a *lot* lower
than the hobby shop nearest me (he sells at fulll retail, Walthers
prices only, unless item is "on sale". The only way to know about the
sale is to go to the shop as he does not advertise.), with the convience
of being able to shop from home and avoid the 60 mile drive to the hobby
shop with service as good as if not better than the hobby shop, I'm
buying from Al.
EBTBOB
I am glad to hear that there a number of young people at the Springfield
show. That is, in itself encouraging.
However......I can honestly say, that while working at the store, Lin's
Junction, in Lansdale, Pa.........we rarely(with a captiol RARELY) see young
people come into the store. Yes, we see them with parents, but it is obvious
that it is the parent that is the hobbyist. And worse is the fact the the
parent with young children is rare except during the holiday season. Teenagers
in the store? Never with extremely few exceptions.
Like I said, I am glad to hear about the young people at Springfield. I
only hope my generation can educate and instill the desire to be a modeler of
some kind before it is too late.
Bob
Train Man
EBTBOB wrote:
> Jim,
>
> I am glad to hear that there a number of young people at the Springfield
> show. That is, in itself encouraging.
> However......I can honestly say, that while working at the store, Lin's
> Junction, in Lansdale, Pa.........we rarely(with a captiol RARELY) see young
> people come into the store. Yes, we see them with parents, but it is obvious
> that it is the parent that is the hobbyist. And worse is the fact the the
> parent with young children is rare except during the holiday season. Teenagers
> in the store? Never with extremely few exceptions.
>
Has anyone ever SHOWN them (teenagers) the store?? IOW, do you advertise in places
they are likely to see your store? Admittedly, I don't know your exact situation
and location, but if people don't know you are there, how are they going to find
you and what would make them look to begin with? Around here there are circulars
that advertise all of the local businesses, most offering discount coupons. These
are the free papers available at the grocery stores. They also come in the mail.
Most get tossed as junk mail but some people do look them over first. Is there
something like that in your area? Do you advertise in it? Or do you have the
standard 1 line listing in the Yellow pages (next to useless btw) hoping somebody
sees it? Are there bullitan boards at the local schools and rec centers where
flyers could be posted? How about a small operating layout IN the store for them to
look at when you DO get them in? The purpose of which to demonstrate that the
trains don't have to be set up on the floor and don't require a 40 pound 4x8 table
to run. How about sponsoring clinics on how to DO various parts of the hobby?
I have to tell you, IF (and I don't know that you are) you are just standing behind
the counter waiting for folks of ALL ages to come in, you will continue to see a
serious decline in business.
One other very important fact that you/we seem to be overlooking here, These teens
that you keep hoping to see, don't OWN the spaces they live in... Myself, I got
lucky. When I was growing up, my folks gave up part of the basement so I could play
with the trains. Even partitioned off an 11x22 foot room for it..
Just my rambling thoughts on the subject....
Jeff
Ken (NY)
excitedly exclaimed:
When I was a member of an O Scale club, during open houses we
had someone at a small table, constructing a RR model. No kits, just
working with scratch builder's supplies. When it was my turn, I built
a Pennsy N6b cabin car out of styrene except for couplers. (I still
have it on a shelf in virgin white plastic. Can't bring myself to
paint it.) Another guy made a NYC passenger car out of brass.The
demonstrations are what really got the questions flowing, especially
by the kids. They would watch the trains run for a while, then drift
over to the guy or gal doing the real creating. I wonder how many of
them wandered in to see choo-choos and found themselves joining the
hobby because they saw someone building a museum-quality model for a
few dollars?
sona...@webtv.net
is the change in emphasis in the schools from "hands on" shop skills [
wood working, electrical, ceramics, sheet metal, yes even home making
and cooking] to computer skills.
As far as NY area shops try World of Trains in Qns [718-520-9700]
Definitely not a toy store.
Regards John
"The supreme aim of human life is to create a more humane society".
(Ethical Culture)
Mike Tennent
Pardon me if I don't join all the gloom and doom.
Let me ask a question - at what point in this hobby have kids EVER
been a major participant - other than by PLAYING with trains? It's
not a kid's hobby, it's an adult hobby that kids like. The adults
build the trains. The kids get to play with them occasionally. It's
always been that way.
What trains did we play with as kids? A Lionel around the Christmas
tree once a year. Oh, sure there was that neat old guy (notice the
OLD) a couple of blocks over who had this basement empire that we all
dreamed about. But we had our oval on the floor. And loved it.
But we loved other toys, too. Kids have a hundred hobbies. They change
hobbies like they change shoes and that's the way it should be. Who
knows what will trigger an interest that the kid will come back to
later in life, just like most of us? The smart parent lets a kid enjoy
a hundred experiences so that they'll be exposed to different
interests and find the one or two they really like.
Sure, the hobby is changing, but it's still an adult hobby. Always
has been.
Mike tennent
"IronPenguin"
Operating Traffic Lights
HO and N Scale
http://www.catalog.com/webrun/ipe
Mark Smith
>
> To All:
>
> Pardon me if I don't join all the gloom and doom.
>
> Let me ask a question - at what point in this hobby have kids EVER
> been a major participant - other than by PLAYING with trains?
I guess I was different,,,,,,,,,I had a small Lionel steam set when I
turned 6 or 7.
It ran in the living room over Christmas as many started. It then ended
up in my upstairs bedroom, with a 4 by 8 table.
This turned into a massive layout with O gauge and o72 mixed in for
effect.
I ground pliers with a small notch to tighten the track pins, cut the
switch machines off the 027 electrics so my NYC ABA set would pass.
I even figured how to get a remote anywhere uncoupler by connecting the
whistle circuit to the coupler on my CnO switcher.
Also figured that my train would go slower down grade connected to the
lower power outputs on the transformer.
Several layouts were done and torn down and done again while I learned
to use drills, saws, etc. Wiring was something you just did, not ask
how on the internet !!
And I had several buddies of the same age who did the same thing, quite
a few in fact. We counted switches to seee who had the biggest layout !!
The department store layouts were the hit of the year and mom would take
the whole neighborhod downtown when Polskies and Oneils opened the large
streetside windows.
It was heaven to a train kid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Ctyclsscs
>knows what will trigger an interest that the kid will come back to
>later in life, just like most of us?
I think it's been said many times that that is key. They need something to come
back to. They can't come back to trains when they're older if they've never
been exposed to them when they were young.
That's why the NMRA and MRIA have been working at reaching young people. They
may not stay with trains through their teens and early twenties( like many of
us), but at least they will have had some exposure.
This is slightly off the subject, but...
We have a young friend who is about 17 years old. He visits us pretty regularly
and recently asked about all the record albums I have. He wondered what they
sounded like! He had never ever heard a plain old record (not CD or cassette).
He said "Do they sound any good?" Now, I'm not talking about a collection of
Bing Crosby records. Our collection has everything from alternative rock, new
wave, traditional rock 'n roll and rock oldies, so it's not like we didn't have
anything he would like. Yet here was a young person that wasn't exposed to much
music growing up. Made me wonder if the same thing could be said about our
hobby and young people.
What point am I making? I'm not quite sure. <g> Maybe just that there are some
things we take for granted (like trains) that many people have never been
exposed to. That's why we do need to show young people about the hobby even if
they don't initially stick with it.
Jim Sacco
http://cityclassics.fwc-host.com
Dan L. Merkel
>
> Actually, I have heard that there is a move afoot to make New York
> disappear.
> Lester
Maybe Hillary can tax it to death???
dlm
--
Dan L. Merkel
bright.net-BRT
===== > > Your Local Link to the Internet in
Findlay and in Hancock County < < =====
john a dalton
>Jim Sacco
>http://cityclassics.fwc-host.com
....most young people i come in contact with have never SEEN a model
railroad layout before.....as a matter of fact, they've never seen a
real train up close, either..... :))
.....remember we used to go down to the station in Bristol, and walk
right up and touch the train.....all those people, all dressed-up,
eating dinner or supper on the train.....and there was always a flower
on the table....you could always see the flower.....the first time i
ever ate in a dining car, the waiter handed me a pad and pencil.....my
grandaddy smiled when i looked puzzled....."he cain't read or write,
son, so you hafta do it".....that was the first time i ever had those
funny-colored green beans....the ones we always had were dark from the
fatback.....we were on The Tennesean from Bristol to Knoxville.....
:))
....the memories are fading..... ;))
.....big john..... :))
Mlshaker
favorite vendor the Red Caboose stays in business is beyond me. Here in Central
NJ there are a couple of excellent shops all within 20 minutes of each other.
EBTBOB
I guess it depends on the definition of kids. Back in the late 50s and
thru the mid to late 60s, kids were into this hobby at the age of 10 or 11.
In my grade school classes there were several who just did not have fun running
trains, but were into building and track laying etc.
By the time I made it to high school, kids, now in their teens were
serious modelers - well, as much as their budgets allowed anyway.
For the past 10 years I have followed the local high school basketball
team. Each year the program puts out a yearbook with players profiles. Now we
are talking about kids from say 15-18 years old. There is a profile done on
each player including hobbies. For 10+ years, definition of hobby to these
young people has been....
"Chillin with my buds", "Listenin to music"...and that every growing popular
hobby of "Eatin pizza" Never a modeler of any kind, no stamp or coin
collectors, no RC cars, planes, boats. By the way, this same profile fits
the female side of the coin also. Kids today, just do not get into hobbies
the way we did in our generation. It is a fact. Let's face it, these young
people have 10 times the activities open to them in the sports field alone, let
alone, the internet, play station and so on.
Well, enough is enough. I have spoken my piece. My best to you all, see
ya along the railroad!
Bob
EBTBOB
You mention trying to make teens aware of the store, etc.
You might find it interesting to know that the model railroad club I belong
to tried, thru the local school districts, to drum up interest.
I guess we did not do a very good job, because after working with 3-4
school districts with a total school population(in the middle to high school
level) of over 4000 teens, we got basically non-interest.
Bob Rule, Jr.
Bruce Favinger
Many moons ago when I was in high school I was the only kid that I ever
saw at the hobby shop and it was mentioned then that very few teens were
interested in model railroads. During that time I would only build a kit
every now and then (could not afford them) and pick up an MR on occasion and
did not have a layout other than a timesaver. The local club was full of old
farts and establishment types that I had no desire to be around at that time
of life. My main interests were girls, my motorcycle, girls, rock concerts,
girls, parties, girls, keeping my grades passing and girls. Most kids today
probably have similar demanding interests. Once they sow enough wild oats,
start a family and own a home a few will look for a hobby and a few of them
will drift in to model railroading. I don't think you guys failed as much as
you beat a dead horse. Target the kids younger than teens (and even then you
probably can only plant a seed that might sprout many years later) or guys
that are older, maybe 30 and up. Bruce
EBTBOB <ebt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010213232247...@ng-fx1.aol.com...
Train Man
interest in this (or any other) hobby, they (hobbies) are all doomed to
extinction......
Jeff
Mike Tennent
> For the past 10 years I have followed the local high school basketball
>team. Each year the program puts out a yearbook with players profiles. Now we
>are talking about kids from say 15-18 years old. There is a profile done on
>each player including hobbies. For 10+ years, definition of hobby to these
>young people has been....
>"Chillin with my buds", "Listenin to music"...and that every growing popular
>hobby of "Eatin pizza" Never a modeler of any kind, no stamp or coin
>collectors, no RC cars, planes, boats.
No self respecting teenager would EVER tell an adult what they're
really interested in. <g>
But seriously, using HS jocks as an example of your everyday kid is
flawed. The kids with real hobbies are the science fair "geeks," the
math whiz, the drama club members, or just your ordinary B average
kid. But they don't get their profiles in programs because they can't
do something really important like shoot a basketball.
<Not dissin' athletes - I'm a 3-time Ironman finisher.>
Mike Tennent
john a dalton
....we would have never known it, Mike..... :))
....we love ya, we rally do.... :))
....big juanita.... :))
Dennis E. Golden
built a 2-8-4. :>))
Den
Dennis E. Golden
their 2 scale layout, then to The N.Y.S.M.E. layout in Hoboken, Then The Lionel
Showroom, and finally to Polk's 8 story tall hobby shop. No wonder I'm still a
model railroader. :>))
Den
Peter King
David Woodell wrote:
>
>
> Seriously. I don't know about the "local" hobby shops, but after a few
> times of doing business with the mail order, advertise in MR, etc.,
> shops, I decided to look at their address first. If they were from
> anywhere in NY, NO THANK YOU. No way. Not doing business with them.
> Seemed like the service I got from all the ones I tried to do business
> with was below sub-par.
stuff deleted...
David, I hope you remember there's that part of New York just north of
the Bronx, which is called 'Upstate'. (Or, to most NY City residents,
'almost in Canada'.)
I have no doubt that you experienced what you say, I've seen it myself!
But there are many fine dealers all over the state who would not treat
you the way you described. I know quite a few of them personally!
Peter King in NY (but not in NY City.)
--
Charles M. Schulz 1922 - 2000.
Cartoonist, artist, illustrator, philosopher, humanitarian.
Rest in peace, old friend. And thank you for a lifetime of smiles and
laughter.
Frank A. Rosenbaum
drive by shunning.
--
Frank R.
Note New EMAIL address: faros...@mediaone.net
The train club I belong to is the Gratiot Valley. See us at:
http://chives.michvhf.com/~gvrr/index.htm
+-------------------------+
| DO NOT FEED |
| THE TROLLS |
+-----------+-+---------+
| |
| |
| |
| |
....\\|.|/....
If at first you don't succeed, throw it in the spare parts box.
Thanks to Lindy9113
Dennis E. Golden <dgo...@warwick.net> wrote in message
news:3A8B0EDF...@warwick.net...
Dennis E. Golden
Brooklyn, and (if you really press them) they'll admit that's still in New
York City. :>))
Den
Peter King wrote: