MRC Controlmaster 20 Troubles......
Frank Williamson
MRC Controlmaster 20 power packs this weekend. I just completed wiring the
first of my control panels. I am using a common rail 2 power pack system
without reverse sections. Well, everything was checking out at each block
(SPDT controlling each block) and I started to play some. I had the right
throttle in the right hand and the left throttle in the left hand and
everything was working great. UNTIL I ran the loco across a gap where one
block was switched to the left and the other to the right. (My mistake, I
know, but a common one that can occur while operating).
Anyhow, the loco gave off a couple of sparks at the wheels and then the power
supplies turned off using their short protection circuitry before I could get
to the power packs and turn them off. Well, when they shut off automatically
I turned around to remove the loco from the track when all of the sudden the
packs came on at FULL POWER. I grabbed the loco (which was moving at twice
the speed I've every seen at full throttle) and pulled the plugs on the
packs.
I broke out the ohmmeter to see if any shorts still existed and the answer
was no. So, the power packs are supposed to reset after 5 minutes, so I let
them sit and turned them on about ten minutes later. They came on with the
power indicator on bright (i.e. full throttle). I checked the terminal
voltages and EACH one was putting out 30 volts DC AND 30 volts AC at the
track terminals, no matter what the throttle is set to!!! Explains why the
loco took off like a bat out of hell......Anywho, called MRC this morning and
they had no idea why they went into this operating mode and told me to ship
them and they'll fix them under warranty.
Questions: I had had locos cross into wrong blocks before with previous
power packs, but they would shut down and reset normally. Did I discover an
"undesirable" feature of the MRCs? Besides being more careful during
operation, are there any other things I can do to prevent from happening
again? I realize that crossing the blocks like that was "a mistake", but
still a common enough mistake that it could happen again to myself or anyone
else for that matter. I'd hate to have to send the power packs to repair
everytime this kind of mistake happened. Anyone else have something like
this happen to them? Any suggestions?
Thanks is advance,
Frank
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Steven J Dorst
>Thanks is advance,
>Frank Frank, believe it or not, our club has blown at least 5
Controlmaster 20 power packs this way. Each time, we send them to MRC,
each time, they send us back a working power pack. The next tolast time (4
months ago), I called MRC to try and find out what was going wrong (I'm
new to the club and the other failures were before my time). MRC hence
definitely knew about the behaviour of their packs at least 4 months ago,
so if they said they didn't know, they were either lying, or they have
incredibly poor communication within their company. According to the tech
I talked to, the failures were in the final output power amp, which was
trying to source (or sink) significant voltage through insignificant
resistance, leading to massive currents, currents large enough to damage
the final amplifier in the very short time before the protective circuits
cut in. The tech also said that power packs that failed in this way were
repaired with different final amp chips. Given that, we have crossed our
fingers and hoped, but we are now (finally) keeping track of WHICH
throttles have had the fix applied and if a repaired unit fails in the
same way, then we will be extremely mad.
Many of our members use and love the Controlmaster 20 throttles on their
home layouts, which is partly what caused our club to rely on them so
heavily. However, in those layouts these were the only throttle on the
layout, so the problem can't arise. Our current means of coping with the
problem is implementing a fairly strick operator qualification, since the
problem doesn't occur if you don't overrun your block assignments.
Meanwhile, we are searching for a reasonably priced, walkaround throttle
with memory and sufficient power (at least 5 amps) to power the long
trains of older, amp-eating power that we frequently run.
Hope this helps,
--
Steven J Dorst <do...@crl.com> Calling from somewhere East of Alcatraz
aka N6VMK ==>Hey, I'm just this guy, you know?<==
Christopher A. Lee
<tale of woe deleted>
I don't particularly like the control center 20.
If I've left a section switched in and I power off, the engine gives a leap
forward.
It's like the thump of a cheap amplifier. Except that some of my more
sensitive engines move several inches.
If my stereo doesn't thump, why can't MRC prevent the controller doing
the same thing? These controllers are expensive. If you pay Rolls-Royce
price you expect quality.
MRC claimed they hadn't heard of this problem but several net.modellers
said they had the same thing happen to them.
I don't use it any more.
My current controller is a Realroad simulator card in an old PC. It ain't
cheap but it's a far better simulator than any other I've used, and each
engine is individually calibrated to give the optimum control waveform
for the motor.
Cheers....Chris
Richard F. Weyand
>Meanwhile, we are searching for a reasonably priced, walkaround throttle
>with memory and sufficient power (at least 5 amps) to power the long
>trains of older, amp-eating power that we frequently run.
Funny you should mention that. I just got off the phone with Bill Pistello,
my co-author on the Mainline Modeler article series on electronics, and
we are now very close to being able to provide the throttle circuit the
Reids use on their layout. In case you don't know, Bill Reid is the pickiest
SOB in the world when it comes to throttles. He wants excellent low speed
performance, as well as very cool running with can motors, short-circuit
power-down, walkaround with long memory, etc., etc., etc. Well, Bill
Pistello came up with a throttle several years back. He saw it in MR in 1986
or so, but it had several problems. Among others, it wouldn't go all the way
down to zero volts at zero throttle. Like, zero throttle was 4 volts. (!)
Well, he worked on this, and worked on it, and worked on it. He's made
several circuit modifications, and he's got some to work right, but the
transistors were hand selected and matched, etc. These are the ones on
the Reids' layout, Don McFall's (Old Line Graphics) layout, and others. In
the meantime, we designed the reverse blocking circuit and the radio control
interface that appeared in the August Mainline Modeler. But we haven't been
able to fix the damned throttle circuit so it's reproducible to build.
Until now.
As of tonight, we have the problem nailed down, and a couple units are in
test. We want to nail down the final parts list with an eye for sufficient but
not overkill in the current and heat capacity areas, and then I will lay out
a circuit diagram for this beast. The article will probably appear in the
February Mainline Modeler as the last of the electronics series, but for
those who can't wait, Bill offers the units built up.
Some teasers. The unit can pump out about eight amps. It will get plain
old N scale engines to start at a speed of about one flextrack tie every
two seconds or so -- Katos will do better, some others worse. After three
hours of switching at scale speeds of five to ten miles per hour, can motors
are stone cold. The units have been directly shorted to each other in
opposing polarities for 15 minutes or more (Hey, why won't my train work?
_Who's_on_my_cab_?!?!?) without damaging themselves, the wiring, or
the locos, and with no reset time. It has a long memory, which can be
shortened if you want. It includes the reverse blocking and the radio control
interface circuits, but will also run off a plain hand unit -- either
pushbutton or knob -- if you want.
You can also go back to the old MR if you want. But the circuit does not
work as is. Bill did an awful lot of work to get these units working right,
and I've done a lot of work to make them producible.
If it's a really nice throttle you want, the opinion of many famous rrers
who've run at the Reids' is that this is the best throttle in the hobby. And
as of tonight, we think it is reproducible. I'll let you all know how the
testing shakes out. If we finally have it nailed, we will publish the circuit
patterns and parts list in Mainline Modeler, as well as offer the units (in
relatively low volumes) for sale via mail order.
Rich Weyand | ~~~~*****MMMMMM) |Rich Weyand
Weyand Associates| _______ ___,---. ---+_______:_ |TracTronics
Comm Consultants | |_N_&_W_| |_N_&_W_| |__|________|_ |Model RR Electronics
wey...@mcs.com | ooo ooo ~ ooo ooo ~ oOOOO- OOOO=o\ |wey...@mcs.com
Mark Fleury
one power supply on the layout, and had just stoped a single engine to replace
the shell (it was new and in my initial testing stage). When I replaced it on
the rails it took off. Turning the throtle handle had no effect and the lights
were real bright. Later I checked the voltage on the leads and found it to be
way over the expected 12/16 volts. I have not had a chance to send it in for
repairs, but it only had about 20 hours of usage on it (testing new engines).
Sounds like they have some bad components or a flawed design.
Todd Carpenter
CAL> My current controller is a Realroad simulator card in an old PC. It ain't
CAL> cheap but it's a far better simulator than any other I've used, and each
CAL> engine is individually calibrated to give the optimum control waveform
CAL> for the motor.
What's this Realroad about? What type of features / price /
availability? Is there a GUI, or is it all simple text? Any limit
on the number of trains/tracks that can be controlled? How is the
above tuning accomplished? I assume that with a PC, the calibration
can be stored, no? I've been kicking around the idea of getting
some sort of flexible controller for awhile, and I certainly have
the spare PCs about...
email or post. I will summarize email responses.
Todd P. Carpenter
Honeywell Technology Center 3660 Technology Drive, Minneapolis, MN 55418-1006
US-612-951-7229(w) 951-7438(f) 698-1934(h) carpent...@htc.honeywell.com
User Manual, p34, line 5: This carbon unit not authorized to possess opinions
Gregg Fuhriman
Many years ago I had a similar experience with the MRC Controlmaster X.
I had two of them controlling a common-rail dual cab layout, and blew
them both up under similar conditions. MRC repaired the packs, but not
their reputation from my perspective.
Another bad experience was with a friend's MRC Tech II pack. When he
turned the throttle knob all they way to zero, there was still some
voltage on the track and his expensive European locos would "hum"
when stopped.
In my opinion, these stories and those about the Controlmaster 20 show
that MRC packs are really not all they're cracked up to be. Yes, they
are affordable, and everybody has one or knows about them, and you can
find them everywhere (including toy stores) ... but I believe they
are basically built for the mass market (read "toy train" market) and
do not perform at the level expected by more advanced modelers.
I have been using throttles made by "Innovator" for the past few years,
and I have not had any trouble with them on my present common-rail
dual cab layout. I have the Innovator 2000, which provides up to 4 Amps,
has a tethered throttle with memory, uses simple phone jacks for
connecting to the layout, and other nice features like switchable
pulse, knob or pushbutton throttle, momentum, emergency brake, etc.
I got mine for around $100 each, including the main transformer, which
they sell separately. They advertise in the major model mags.
--
=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
Gregg Fuhriman I'd rather be chasing a DASH8-40BW ...
Teradyne Inc Internet: gr...@atwc.teradyne.com
=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
Peake
characteristics of a lot of different real locomotives.