silly question: "How do you pronounce 'Athearn' properly?"
D. Michael McIntyre
the correct way to pronounce the name of this company.
Bradley Sanders
>To avoid possibly embarassing myself at the hobby shop, I'd like to know
>the correct way to pronounce the name of this company.
"Athearn."
(Sorry; I just couldn't resist.)
jconway
Be sure to visit our new RR homepage: <a href="http://www.tucson.com/concor"></a>
*******************HAPPY HOLIDAYS**************************************************
Don Brown
Office Manager
Con-Cor International (N/HO Model RR Manufacturer)
Tucson AZ
jconway
Clark Cooper
> To avoid possibly embarassing myself at the hobby shop, I'd like to know
> the correct way to pronounce the name of this company.
I've always heard it as "a-thurn" with the "a" short as in "bad" and the
"th" as in "the".
--
Clark Cooper... Sr. Programmer/Analyst clark-...@uiowa.edu
IMU Information Systems, The University of Iowa
Elson Trinidad
D. Michael McIntyre <mmci...@bev.net> wrote:
>To avoid possibly embarassing myself at the hobby shop, I'd like to know
>the correct way to pronounce the name of this company.
Is this a concern at all? It's "Ath" (as in "mATH") - "Earn" (as in "EARN
some money").
Don't get me wrong - I was in the same boat myself - namely with "Kato"
(I pronounced it like the name of O.J. Simpson's former houseguest),
"Bachmann" (Holy mispronounciation, Batch-man!) and "Kadee" (Duuuh,
Can I get a set of Kuh-dee number 5's?).
-- 30 --
E l s o n T r i n i d a d
ertr...@skat.usc.edu * lam...@aol.com
Visit ElsoNet @ the URL -> http://ucs.usc.edu/~ertrinid/
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Bachelor of Arts, Print Journalism
=============================================================================
The Usenet: A bunch of people saying things, and another bunch of people
arguing that they're wrong.
Nelson Kennedy
>
>ATH-URN (rhymes with "bath")
I guess it depends how you pronounce 'bath'.
Are you saying it is like 'Arthur' with an 'n' on the end?
That will be a challenge to me with a lifetime of experience of saying mATH-EARN.
Not impossible, though. I've learned to say Marklin (where have my umlauts gone?) properly.
--
Nelson Kennedy
Christchurch, New Zealand,
Home of the 'other' Wisconsin Central
Andy Harman
>To avoid possibly embarassing myself at the hobby shop, I'd like to know
>the correct way to pronounce the name of this company.
You may find the hobby shop owner doesn't know how to pronounce it
correctly either <g>.
The conventional wisdom and most common pronunciation is "ATH-urn",
with "ATH" ryhming with "bath".
You will also here "A-thurn" with the "A" like in "hay".
I believe the actual, correct, ethnic pronunciation of the name is
"Aturn" with the A soft and the H silent, but this is just
speculation. I don't know a whole lot of people with this name, and
I'm not even sure of it's origin.
You will also hear things like "Atheran" and "Athrun" which are
completely bogus.
Any living relatives of Irv's, or anyone else with a knowledge of this
name is welcome to jump in.
Andy
Andy Harman
>In article <4bfdsh$7...@news.azstarnet.com>, jco...@azstarnet.com says...
>>
>>ATH-URN (rhymes with "bath")
>I guess it depends how you pronounce 'bath'.
>Are you saying it is like 'Arthur' with an 'n' on the end?
>That will be a challenge to me with a lifetime of experience of saying mATH-EARN.
I believe that's what he said <g>. No 'r' in the first syllable as in
"Arthur". Where do you get that from?
ATH-URN is the exact same thing phonetically as mATH-EARN.
Or do you pronounce "earn" differently? <g>
Andy (still trying to get myself to say "Kah-toe" instead of
"Kay-toe" as in Kaelin, the world's most useless celebrity.
Andy Harman
>Don't get me wrong - I was in the same boat myself - namely with "Kato"
>(I pronounced it like the name of O.J. Simpson's former houseguest),
Yeah, or the Green Hornet's very able assistant played by Bruce Lee!
At least that comparison is valid, although Bruce was from Hong Kong
and is closer to being a P2K <g>.
>"Bachmann" (Holy mispronounciation, Batch-man!) and "Kadee" (Duuuh,
>Can I get a set of Kuh-dee number 5's?).
Well, "batchman" is close to "botchmann". Kadee I've been told is one
of the strangest acronyms of all time. I always assumed it was just a
phoneticized version of the letters KD, the brothers (Keith and Dale)
who founded the company and invented the coupler. But someone told me
that the word "Kadee" stands for "Keith And Dale Edwards Edwards". I
suppose its more pronouncable than "Keith Edwards And Dale Edwards"
which would mean we would all be putting Keade couplers on our stuff.
Andy (hoping nobody ever uses my initials for a product name...
Akh!!!)
Fredric W. Dabney
: ertr...@skat.usc.edu (Elson Trinidad) wrote:
: Andy (hoping nobody ever uses my initials for a product name...
: Akh!!!)
Well, everytime I see a "fwd" for "forwarded" I keep thinking I'm about
to be mis-quoted or something.
Fred "FWD" D.
Keith Rogers
>ATH-URN (rhymes with "bath")
>
With your help, you just couldn't resist a commercial plug, could
you? And not once, but twice! Have you no shame? Or is your greed
all-encompassing?
DLChambers
Ath as in bath, urn as in burn.
-Dave
TALLT
Inter-Mountain and who-knows-next? Why now this? Will all these folks
work together? What happened to the patent? Can anyone stop me from
expressing every thought as a sentence?
Bill Dixon
I was told: InterMountain wanted a large number of Kadee #5's for
their assembled cars. Kadee said OK, but you have to buy them in
our one pair package and include them uninstalled with the car.
IM said no way and purchased the 5's from the open market
somewhere and started development of their own #5 type coupler.
McHenry announced their version after IM announced their plans.
In both cases the new couplers are merely #5 replacements. They
will not replace all of the other high/low - long/short coupler
versions.
The final result has been the release of #5s in bulk packs at
a lower price, something modellers have been asking for, for
years.
Bill Dixon
Fredric W. Dabney
: Will someone explain the copycatting of KD couplers by both McHenry,
: Inter-Mountain and who-knows-next?
As the story has been told here, Intermountain got fed up with not being
able to buy Kadee couplers in bulk (without the paper, the pockets, all
the other stuff they didn't need) for their ready-to-run cars so decided
to make their own. McHenry? probably seemed like a good idea to them,
too. At retail, they both are better deals, although how the street
price will settle out is another matter. Each has its own potential
advantages with a different method of centering. I look forward to using
them in Hydra-Cushion coupler pockets where the original Kadee doesn't
work very well, and the bulk of my cars have cushion underframes- at
least the box cars, mechanical reefers and cabooses that haven't all gone
to the scrap dealer.
As to "who-knows-next"- it would be logical for companies like P2K, Atlas
and Kato to start making their own Kadee compatible couplers for their
line of ready-to-run. And given the huge volume of kits Athearn pushes
out the door, it could make sense there, too.
: Why now this?
Why not?
: Will all these folks work together?
You're kidding, right?
: What happened to the patent?
Expired.
: Can anyone stop me from expressing every thought as a sentence?
I dunno...
Fred D.
stev knowles
74133...@CompuServe.COM says...
>I was told: InterMountain wanted a large number of Kadee #5's for
>their assembled cars. Kadee said OK, but you have to buy them in
>our one pair package and include them uninstalled with the car.
>IM said no way and purchased the 5's from the open market
>somewhere and started development of their own #5 type coupler.
the nice man at intermountain told me a slightly different story. he said that
they *were*buying them from kadee, just like we do, in little packets, with
the coupler pockets. they tried and tried to get just the couplers, but kadee
always said no. the last straw was when they went to kadee for a new order,
and kadee told them that they were not going to deal with them any more.
intermountain got stuck. they then went off. the rest was as you said.
this i was told by the nice man handing out samples at the intermountain booth
at the national in atlanta this past summer.
Peter King
couplers than on Kadees (through some distributors, at least), the
difference in the list prices is still great enough to give the
Intermountains a lower street price.
I don't know the discount on McHenry, so I can't comment on that.
BTW, I believe that the Intermountain and McHenry won't 'delay uncouple',
as Kadee still has a patent on that. Someone please correct me if that's
wrong.
Peter King in NY
Andy Harman
>BTW, I believe that the Intermountain and McHenry won't 'delay uncouple',
>as Kadee still has a patent on that. Someone please correct me if that's
>wrong.
The IMRC and McH couplers should both be fully Kadee compatible
including the delayed uncoupling. The delayed action is a function of
the magnet pulling the trip pin to the side farther... this will work
on any of the Kadee compatibles. As to the magnet itself, AFAIK none
of the other manufacturers is even offering to sell one... so in that
exact design for the "delayed uncoupling" there may still be a patent
in effect.
Andy
Bill Hirt
> on any of the Kadee compatibles. As to the magnet itself, AFAIK none
> of the other manufacturers is even offering to sell one... so in that
> exact design for the "delayed uncoupling" there may still be a patent
> in effect.
>
Talking to the McHenry folks at the Chicago show in October, they fully
intend to offer a magnetic uncoupling unit. They said they wanted to get
the coupler shipped first before working on the magnet. I think Western
Products already has an uncoupling ramp that works with Kadee-type
couplers, but the price is all that much cheaper than the real Kadee
ramps.
-Bill
Northwest - West - Southwest - Everywhere West - Burlington Route
Charles A Davis
On Sun, 31 Dec 1995, Charles A Davis wrote:
> From: aha...@one.net (Andy Harman)
> Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 07:16:33 GMT
> The IMRC and McH couplers should both be fully Kadee compatible
> including the delayed uncoupling.
maybe
> The delayed action is a function of the magnet pulling the trip pin to
> the side farther...
Wrong (I think) There is (or at least was) a difference in the little
folded brass centering springs between the "delayed" and "non-delayed"
couplers.
The coupler gets pulled farther to the side for the 'delayed' function, but
that's the result of a weaker spring NOT a stronger magnet.
snip
Chuck D.
Andy Harman
>Wrong (I think) There is (or at least was) a difference in the little
>folded brass centering springs between the "delayed" and "non-delayed"
>couplers.
>The coupler gets pulled farther to the side for the 'delayed' function, but
>that's the result of a weaker spring NOT a stronger magnet.
No way. Where are you getting this from? There is no such thing as a
"delayed" and "non delayed" coupler. You will never see them, period.
The only difference is the wider magnet, and the technique used to
uncouple. The magnet is not stronger, it's wider and pulls the trip
pins to the side. Every single Kadee piece of literature has a sketch
of this process it seems.
Andy
Fredric W. Dabney
Did you drop a "not" in the "is all that much cheaper" sentence?
Anyway. The centering spring is the "secret" to delayed action in the HO
Kadees. And it is easy to duplicate. I have used modified #4 Kadees on
a lot of engines where the #5 gave me too long a shank. And I have
gotten reliable delay with no serious effort.
The "lopsided" centering spring provides a mechanical bias such that the
coupler more easily moves to one side than the other. I have seen
instances where the modeler put the spring on the bottom of the coupler
instead of on top and sure enough, the coupler will often swing in the
wrong direction.
A slight weakening of the cast in spring, using sandpaper, a file etc
should provide the same effect- make it easier for the coupler to swing
in the desired direction. If I can ever get some, I intend to try some
IM couplers in a Cal Scale hydra cushion pocket. The Kadee with its
spring has never been satisfactory there, and John Anderson and I often
talked about a better design, but nothing ever came of it before Cal
Scale was picked up by Bowser.
Of course, if both sides of the cast in spring are under compression in a
mount, then you will have to weaken both springs the same amount else the
coupler will have a permanent hunch to one side. But the #4 works well
as a delayed coupler without the bias. It just uses a soft springing to
start with.
As far as ramps are concerned: I have seen sucessful use of magnetic
strips such as used for refrigerator door gaskets. The trick here is to
find one which is magnetized across the strip, rather than along the
strip. The only such gaskets I've tried have been the latter, and they
don't work at all. But you can glue them inside stuff like containers and
the like to keep them stacked without gluing them together so it's not a
waste if they don't work as ramps.
Fred D.
Peter King
their delayed uncoupling feature, their couplers went from an 'MK' series
to an 'MKD' series. What is now a #5 went from MK-5&10 to MKD-5&10. I
always assumed that it was because the couplers themselves changed.
Now, why '5&10'? I could never understand that number.
Anyone know someone at Kadee? They should be able to clear up the
confusion.
Peter King in NY
Charles A Davis
On Mon, 1 Jan 1996, Charles A Davis wrote:
> From: aha...@one.net (Andy Harman)
> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 1996 22:39:16 GMT
>
> No way. Where are you getting this from? There is no such thing as a
> "delayed" and "non delayed" coupler.
See the attached posting referring to "MK" & "MKD" numbers.
> You will never see them, period.
Probably not any more --- it's a part of history now.
> The only difference is the wider magnet, and the technique used to
> uncouple. The magnet is not stronger, it's wider and pulls the trip
> pins to the side. Every single Kadee piece of literature has a sketch
> of this process it seems.
> Andy
From: BGX...@prodigy.com (Peter King)
Date: 1 Jan 1996 23:52:15 GMT
I don't know if this is really significant, but when Kadee introduced
their delayed uncoupling feature, their couplers went from an 'MK' series
to an 'MKD' series. What is now a #5 went from MK-5&10 to MKD-5&10. I
always assumed that it was because the couplers themselves changed.
] The coupler stayed the same --- the centering spring was different.
] If you have (and can identify which is which) centering springs from
] BOTH of the packages. You will be able to see that ONE of the centering
] springs has one side which is 'thinner' and hence weaker. And THAT'S
] the WHOLE difference.
] The uncoupling magnets were and are the same -- there are 'under tie'
] and 'between tie' models. (And an 'electric' model)
Now, why '5&10'? I could never understand that number.
] Now, the 5&10 question -- They had two different couplers a #5 and a
] #10 which weren't different. Just the SAME coupler in different packages.
] Someone came to their senses about that time, and they put the two
] different numbers on the SAME package.
Chuck D.
Fredric W. Dabney
: I don't know if this is really significant, but when Kadee introduced
: to an 'MKD' series. What is now a #5 went from MK-5&10 to MKD-5&10. I
: always assumed that it was because the couplers themselves changed.
: Now, why '5&10'? I could never understand that number.
: Anyone know someone at Kadee? They should be able to clear up the
: confusion.
Going back a few years, the #4 was the standard coupler for the most
common coupler box which had a small pin in the center and coild springs
on one or both sides of the pin in a slot in the shank. The #5 was for
the new plastic Athearn box which had a larger round centering pin. The
#10 was the same as the #5 but which included its own draft gear box.
They later dropped the separate packaging since the coupler was the
same. But they kept both numbers so customers wouldn't get confused.
We move from the mechanical uncoupling of the original versions of the
Kadee to the magnetic and the part number changes from "K" to "MK".
This version still had no delay action, but that shortly is corrected
with the new centering spring and wider magnet. The old "M" series will
also delay if the wider magnet is used, and the biased spring/ mount is
used. During this period, they spasm a few times until they get a series
of different mounts that work reliably in the delay mode.
Interestingly, they recently returned some of the older mounts to solve
some odd installation problems but they tweaked the centering springs a
bit to get fairly reliable delayed action.
Hoewever, I can get reliable centering and delay using a small nail, a #4
and a tiny dab of silicone seal and a bit of work. Assuming the magnet
is wide enough to swing the coupler far enough to one side. And I have
already ranted about the matter of off-set heads. Suffice it to say, the
only couplers I use are the new- what is it? 23? (the real short shank
#5), the #4, #5 and the real long shank version. If one of those doesn't
work as the model comes, the model needs to be fixed. That's why I am
interested in the IM and McH versions.
Fred D.
Terry Flynn
>BGX...@prodigy.com (Peter King) wrote:
>
>>BTW, I believe that the Intermountain and McHenry won't 'delay uncouple',
>>as Kadee still has a patent on that. Someone please correct me if that's
>>wrong.
>
>the magnet pulling the trip pin to the side farther... this will work
>on any of the Kadee compatibles. As to the magnet itself, AFAIK none
>of the other manufacturers is even offering to sell one... so in that
>exact design for the "delayed uncoupling" there may still be a patent
>in effect.
>
>
>
If the couplers do not delay uncouple then the centering system is to
strong. Has any one out there got first hand experience with these new
couplers ? I am sure many are waiting to see if the new ones are any
better or worse than the KD. It is interesting the to note that the
design of one of the new couplers is the same as a sketch a friend showed
me about 15 years ago. He considered the market in Australia to small to
invest in the idea.
Terry Flynn.
Bill Hirt
fda...@nmsu.edu (Fredric W. Dabney) wrote:
> Bill Hirt (wh...@ibm.net) wrote:
> : Talking to the McHenry folks at the Chicago show in October, they fully
> : intend to offer a magnetic uncoupling unit. They said they wanted to get
> : the coupler shipped first before working on the magnet. I think Western
> : Products already has an uncoupling ramp that works with Kadee-type
> : couplers, but the price is all that much cheaper than the real Kadee
> : ramps.
>
> Did you drop a "not" in the "is all that much cheaper" sentence?
>
Yes I did. I noticed that when it came back yesterday. The Western Rail
product is only about 30-50 cents cheaper than the Kadees. On the new
McHenry magentic ramp, they said it would an under the track mount as that
was what their primary requests were for. They declined to estimate what
it might market for though.
Andy Harman
>I don't know if this is really significant, but when Kadee introduced
>their delayed uncoupling feature, their couplers went from an 'MK' series
>to an 'MKD' series. What is now a #5 went from MK-5&10 to MKD-5&10. I
>always assumed that it was because the couplers themselves changed.
You are correct in this - the early design #4 will probably not work
in delayed mode because it's spring is longitudinal. But they still
sell a narrow and wide magnet, one labeled "non-delayed", the other
"delayed". With the exception of the #4, all currently available
Kadees should work in delayed mode *if* you use the wide magnet and of
course they have to be installed and maintained properly.
>Now, why '5&10'? I could never understand that number.
There may have been a #5 and #10 which were combined. This is of
course the ancestor of the present day #5, but not identical - the
draft gear box is slightly wider and shorter than the old 5&10's.
Andy
Andy Harman
>See the attached posting referring to "MK" & "MKD" numbers.
I know there were some design changes to incorporate the delayed
feature at the time, but we are talking late 1960's here. The old
5&10's had a narrower centering spring, but I'd bet they will work in
delayed mode especially with the large sub-track magnets. I don't use
the between-the-rails magnets at all because they require perfect pin
height (who is perfect?) and if the pin is too high, no uncouple, if
it's too low - wham, it hits on the uncoupler magnet. They are also
ugly.
Actually, if you really want to know the truth... my present layout
has exactly one Kadee uncoupler. Not installed <g> and I use it to
trip the reed switch on the ditch lights of my GP60 by waving it over
the locomotive as it passes by. I don't believe that I can make
Kadee's system (which is the best there is, but not good enough) work
reliably enough to put up with the snags - unwanted uncoupling,
magnets grabbing steel axles, etc. I use manual uncoupling - just
like the prototype <g>. And probably 25% of my Kadees have had their
trip pins removed.
Andy
Fredric W. Dabney
: BGX...@prodigy.com (Peter King) wrote:
: >I don't know if this is really significant, but when Kadee introduced
: >their delayed uncoupling feature, their couplers went from an 'MK' series
: >to an 'MKD' series. What is now a #5 went from MK-5&10 to MKD-5&10. I
: >always assumed that it was because the couplers themselves changed.
: You are correct in this - the early design #4 will probably not work
: in delayed mode because it's spring is longitudinal. But they still
: sell a narrow and wide magnet, one labeled "non-delayed", the other
: "delayed". With the exception of the #4, all currently available
: Kadees should work in delayed mode *if* you use the wide magnet and of
: course they have to be installed and maintained properly.
The number four did get re-designed to delay. It involved replacing the
draft gear spring with a much softer spring, using a small steel peg that
goes into the coil spring so it won't collapse and of course the wider
magnet. In fact, it seems to work quite well. I like it better for some
applicatins on freight cars than the various #5 variants.
One problem I've seen in the use of this coupler by others is that you
have to use the peg, else the spring does mash and it won't center at all.
Fred D.
Crawfojr
I, too, woul dlike to know the answer to the "mystery." Maybe someone at
Athearn could solve it?
J. Robert Crawford
-----------------------------------------------------------
"You've got two locomotives. Have you got two transformers? Good! Let's
have a crash!"
--Winston Churchill
Charles A Davis
On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Charles A Davis wrote:
> From: aha...@one.net (Andy Harman)
>
snip
> magnets grabbing steel axles,
snip
Andy:
A work around that DOES work, for this problem, is to cut the "#508"
(under the tie) magnets in 1/3ds, [or even 1/4hs, in some places].
This DOES make the spotting of the cars a bit touchier, but what I do,
is to place a magnet (1/4 or 1/3) such that the car is sitting AT the
fouling point for each switch. That's a point that you can reliably
estimate 'by eye'. The shorter length of the magnet eliminates the
"uncoupling" area being long enough that any slack pulled into the cut
of cars by the "steel axle/magnet" interaction, doesn't happen WITH a
coupler over the magnet.
Course I'm STILL working on how to haandle the 'Main Line'
Chuck D.
Fred Ochs
: mmci...@bev.net (D. Michael McIntyre) writes:
: >To avoid possibly embarassing myself at the hobby shop, I'd like to know
: >the correct way to pronounce the name of this company.
: "Athearn."
: (Sorry; I just couldn't resist.)
I've only ever heard it pronounced like it's spelled, rhyming with urn.
Now Kato, I've heard pronounced several ways, sounding like Kato Kaelin,
and also one guy I know says it like rhymes with otto.
Fred
David Ryujiro Olsen
> I've only ever heard it pronounced like it's spelled, rhyming with urn.
> Now Kato, I've heard pronounced several ways, sounding like Kato Kaelin,
> and also one guy I know says it like rhymes with otto.
Fred O. found one of my pet peaves. The ONLY way "Kato" should
be pronounced is "Kah-tow", short "a", long "o". Sorry to be picky,
and definitely no hard feelings directed at Fred, but as a Japanese
American, it always bugs me when people say "Kay-tow" in hobby shops.
Just had to get that off my chest.
Dave Olsen
______________________________________________________________________________
dr...@acpub.duke.edu http://www.duke.edu/~dro1/
________________________________________________________________________________
Reg Neale
information, and the guy answering the phone pronounced it Kay-doe.
If I ever call their head office in Japan, I'll let you know...
Reg Neale
Mark A. Holmstrup
answered Kah-toe. The second time it was answered Kay-toe. When I then
asked which pronounciation was correct, I was told they used both
interchangeably. Go figure!
Regards,
Mark "If they don't care, I don't either" Holmstrup
MAX M. MAGLIARO
This is quite interesting, because I have spoken personally to
Bill Schaumburg (editor of Railroad Model Craftsman) who has attended
meetings where he personally met Mr. Kato, and he says the
correct pronounciation is "Kaaaa-toe". I've heard people pronounce it
this way before, but it's a tough habit to break. I suppose if the
company has started answering the phone that way it's either out
of the ignorance of one employee, or they have given in and accepted
the fact that most Americans say it wrong so they'll just live with it!
My $.02
--
Max Magliaro
M...@ICF.HRB.COM
Philipsburg, Pennsylvania
"It ain't over 'till it's over" --- Yogi Berra
Well, Yogi, as far as the Grand Game of Baseball is concerned, it's over.
Rich Weyand
the company name 'Kay-toe', because that's how everybody
in the US pronounces it.
Rich Weyand | _______ ___,---. ---+_______:_ |Rich Weyand
Weyand Associates| |_N_&_W_| |_N_&_W_| |__|________|_ |TracTronics
Comm Consultants | ooo ooo ~ ooo ooo ~ oOOOO- OOOO=o\ |Model RR Electronics
wey...@mcs.com | http://www.mcs.net/~weyand/ |wey...@mcs.com
jconway
nounces the letter "A" as AY (rhymes with HAY). Virtually all
other countries world-wide pronounce the letter "A" as AH
(rhymes with SHAH). So the "politically correct pronunciation
should therefore be: KAH-TOE.
On the other hand there is a precedence for the pronunciation
KAY-TOE, to wit: O. J. Simpson's former houseguest , Kato Kaelin.
Remember what they say: "It's not how you blow your nose; it's where
you put the boogers".
Go Figure,
Railfan
Cyberia
Fredric W. Dabney
: In article <DKnu4...@freenet.carleton.ca>, ba...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Reg Neale) writes:
: > Re: Kato pronounciation. I just called Kato U.S.A. for some other
: > information, and the guy answering the phone pronounced it Kay-doe.
: >
: > If I ever call their head office in Japan, I'll let you know...
: >
: > Reg Neale
: This is quite interesting, because I have spoken personally to
: Bill Schaumburg (editor of Railroad Model Craftsman) who has attended
: meetings where he personally met Mr. Kato, and he says the
: correct pronounciation is "Kaaaa-toe". I've heard people pronounce it
: this way before, but it's a tough habit to break. I suppose if the
: company has started answering the phone that way it's either out
: of the ignorance of one employee, or they have given in and accepted
: the fact that most Americans say it wrong so they'll just live with it!
Americans have a hard time wiht non-English names (not to mention more
than a few English ones too), but unlike most of the rest of the world,
we worry about it. Most other countries don't even consider it an
issue. Some are downright arrogant about it, in fact.
As one who deals with lots of non-English names on a daily basis, I
constantly get phone calls from people correcting my pronounciaton of
composers, artists, etc. Often they are wildly wrong them selves, which
adds to the fun.
Policies and opinions held by the employer of the undersigned
are not reflected in the views of the undersigned. Or anyone
else in their right mind, for that matter.
Fred Dabney/ KRWG Radio/ New Mexico State University (fda...@nmsu.edu)
"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained
by stupidity" (attrib: O'Hanlon's Razor)
Andy Harman
>and definitely no hard feelings directed at Fred, but as a Japanese
>American, it always bugs me when people say "Kay-tow" in hobby shops.
>Just had to get that off my chest.
I've been trying to get the local population to go along with me on
that too, but it's slow going <g>. Whenever I hear somebody say
"Kaytoe" I remind them about O.J's house guest. But remember, this is
Umerika, home of the "Volks Wagon" (not Folksvogen). Just be glad you
don't live in Indiana... you wouldn't believe how they prounounce
their own towns of "Versailles", "Milan", and "Vevay".
Andy (in Sinsinaty, not SinsinATuh)
Mrhobytoad
accent on the first syllable. I doubt that either care how you pronounce
their name as long as you purchase their products. In the shop I usually
pronounce their name "Kay-toe" because I frequently get corrected by the
customers as to the "proper" pronunciation. Irv Athearn didn't care
either. Come to think about it, Mr. Ahm was the only guy to get flustered
at the pronunciation of his name.
Ron Sebastian
Fredric W. Dabney
: Mr. Kato Sr. and Hiroshi both pronounce their last name "Cot-oh" with the
: Ron Sebastian
There was another maker whose name was the brand, and as I understand
from those who spoke with him found amusement in the strange
pronounciations he heard, and that was Ed Suydam. His kits still live
under the name "California Models" so how to pronounce his name is less a
factor than it used to be-
And before you ask, I have forgotten. SOO dam? SIGH dam? These are the
two most common.
And there is that old maxim in the pr business- Call me what you want,
just spell it right.
Fred D.
Gary M. Collins
> If the couplers do not delay uncouple then the centering system is to
> strong. Has any one out there got first hand experience with these new
> couplers ? I am sure many are waiting to see if the new ones are any
The Feb. Model Railroader has a review. As usual, they like 'em.
Gary M. Collins
> >folded brass centering springs between the "delayed" and "non-delayed"
> >couplers.
> >The coupler gets pulled farther to the side for the 'delayed' function, but
> >that's the result of a weaker spring NOT a stronger magnet.
>
> The only difference is the wider magnet, and the technique used to
> uncouple. The magnet is not stronger, it's wider and pulls the trip
> pins to the side. Every single Kadee piece of literature has a sketch
> of this process it seems.
are beginning to comment! :-)
Actually, when Kadee first started making magnetic couplers, there WERE
"non-delayed" and "delayed-action" couplers. The non-delayed ones got
dropped pretty quickly, though. No takers, I guess. He's right - there
was a difference in the springs. However, he's got the wrong springs.
This was before they started using the folded-metal springs. They used
the coil centering spring, (a la MKD-4) and the "non-delayed" ones were
considerably stiffer. The "delayed-action" couplers used, as the
MKD-4's do today, a small metal plug inside the spring, to prevent too
much draft gear slack. The non-delayed and the non-magnetic (K-4)
couplers had stiff enough springs that the slack problem didn't show up
until the train got pretty heavy (20 cars or so - this was before the
modern really free-rolling trucks).
Tobias Benjamin Koehler
Fredric W. Dabney
: Andy Harman wrote:
: > No way. Where are you getting this from? There is no such thing as a
: > "delayed" and "non delayed" coupler. You will never see them, period.
: > The only difference is the wider magnet, and the technique used to
: > uncouple. The magnet is not stronger, it's wider and pulls the trip
: > pins to the side. Every single Kadee piece of literature has a sketch
: > of this process it seems.
Another argument. Kadee did make a series of couplers specifically with
delay in mind, and which were unique in shank and mounting box. These
were the MKD 6, 7, 8 series that had a weird prong out one side of the
shank and a matching ledge on the side of the coupler pocket to
accomodate it. The used a coil spring, a center #2 screw and were a
nightmare to install on a lot of equipment since they required a lot of
room at one side of the coupler for the prong. I don't think they are
made anymore since the current versions that use varying lengths of the
standard #5 mount with center set heads are all I buy now.
The nature of the springing was such that the spring forced the coupler
/out/ from the pocket which made them nearly impossible to use in places
where they'd have been most useful. Often when you tried to couple to
them, the spring would compress and the coupler would retract into the
model where the mating coupler could no longer reach it. I still have a
few on some models, a fact which brings me no peasure at all.
Fred D.
Andy Harman
>Wait a minute.. not an ay, not an ah, but an o?
>Or is "Cot" actually pronounced with an "a" in American English?
It's pronounced with an "a" as in "ah"... as someone pointed out,
American English is one of the few languages that has a long "a" that
resembles a long "e" in most other Eurpoean languages. Obviously Kato
is a phonetic spelling anyway, since I'm sure the name wasn't
originally written in the English alphabet. So it's "KAH-toe", which
is prounounced exactly the same as "cotto" in _most_ parts of the U.S.
The "Americanized" pronunciation of Kato would be "Keto" in many other
languages.
Interesting little linguistics tidbit: some parts of the U.S. the
words "Mary", "marry", and "merry" are each prounounced differently;
where I come from, we prounounce them all the same - "It will be a
mary occasion when I mary Mary" <g>.
Andy
Tilman Sporkert
I looked at them, and they even include the Kadee-style uncoupling pin. They
sure both look a lot like a Kadee style coupler. Did some patent just expire?
I'm just curious that all of a sudden not just one, but two vendors come out
with couplers like that!
--
Tilman Sporkert Active Software, Inc. til...@activesw.com
Anything stated above is just my opinion, not an offical statement of
Active Softare, Inc.
--
--
Tilman Sporkert Active Software, Inc. til...@activesw.com
Anything stated above is just my opinion, not an offical statement of
Active Softare, Inc.
DON STRACK
completed. They work just fine, including backing through the curves of a
triple switch combination. (BTW, three P2K SD7s fits exactly over two
Atlas dead frogs, stalling train.)
I read MR's review in the Feb issue. My only comment is about the
comparison between sizes, including prototype. All three look too big, by
about 15 percent. But the measurements printed don't agree with my
estimation.
No experience with McHenry.
Don Strack
FREDRIC W. DABNEY
: > Terry Flynn wrote:
: > > If the couplers do not delay uncouple then the centering system is to
: > > strong. Has any one out there got first hand experience with these new
: > > couplers ? I am sure many are waiting to see if the new ones are any
: >
: > The Feb. Model Railroader has a review. As usual, they like 'em.
: I looked at them, and they even include the Kadee-style uncoupling pin. They
: sure both look a lot like a Kadee style coupler. Did some patent just expire?
: I'm just curious that all of a sudden not just one, but two vendors come out
: with couplers like that!
They are fully KaDee compatible, by intent and design including the
magnetic uncoupling. If they don't delay on a standard Kadee ramp, then
the spring force may need t be lessened.
Not that neither the McH or the I/M design use Kadee's knuckle spring or
centering spring approach but rather use cast in Delrin leaf springs in
the shank and knuckle.
Fred D.
Rich Weyand
>Rich Weyand (wey...@mcs.com) wrote:
>: Hiroshi Kato pronounces his name 'Kah-toe' but pronounces
>: the company name 'Kay-toe', because that's how everybody
>: in the US pronounces it.
>Kato is not only sold in the US :)
Yup, but the company I was referring to is Kato USA, the US
subsidiary, of which Hiroshi is the head. His father runs
the parent company in Japan.
Andy Sperandeo
name, and I understand from Jim Kelly, who's been there, that it's how
the name is pronounced in Japan. However, so many Americans (many more
than can possibly remember the Green Hornet's manservant) say "Kay-toe"
that Kato USA has simply given up.
But should we? It seems to me that simple politeness dictates that
anyone who's aware of this situation should pronounce the name as
Hiroshi's family does. Kato sounds like "Kah-toe." It's not that hard.
Andy Sperandeo
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
Peter King
uncouple. Guess that settles that.
Peter King in NY
FREDERICK W DABNEY
: The 6/7/8 series was what caused me to coin the phrase, "it takes a
: number 5. If it doesn't, file it until it does." Whenever I saw a
: recommendation for a #6, 7, or 8 it was an instant warning to get out
: the file. I think they were intended originally to fit on Athearn
: locomotives that had the clip mount from above, so that a #5 draft
: gear didn't have room to be screwed down. I think the #6 was also the
: recommended coupler for the old Atlas hood units, but like everything
: else, it didn't fit the Atlas stuff either. The coupler pockets from
: hell. The only thing worse to put Kadees on was a Model Power E-unit.
: Take a look some time at what there is to work with.
The /original/ 6->8 series made sense, with their simple little plastic
stud and spring arangement. These were easy to mount, very compact and
gave a nice assortment of heights witout having to resort to off-set
heads. It was also the first series to introduce the idea of different
length shanks. Because the mount was so compact they fit well on things
like brass steam engine pilots and other awkward locations. It got a lot
messier when they did the delayed version, and the final iteration of
that series is the weird version I was talking about. But I note that
Kadee re-introduced the original version for- what? Their close couple
kit for Stewart and Athearn F units?
As for the Model Power E units- those and the Roco sharks as well I just
stuck a strip of K&S brass channel across the rear of the frame to
provide a support for the couplers. It does take a bit of filing on the
gearbox for clearance but it isn't difficult.
: Just remember, when in doubt, use a hammer, blowtorch, and industrial
: abrasives to make a #5 fit <g>.
Which is the same thing I said in my rant on Kadees a few days ago. I'd
add power tools and strong language to the toolbox.
Fred D.
ALSKUSTOM
Andy Harman
>Another argument. Kadee did make a series of couplers specifically with
>delay in mind, and which were unique in shank and mounting box. These
>were the MKD 6, 7, 8 series that had a weird prong out one side of the
>shank and a matching ledge on the side of the coupler pocket to
>accomodate it.
The 6/7/8 series was what caused me to coin the phrase, "it takes a
number 5. If it doesn't, file it until it does." Whenever I saw a
recommendation for a #6, 7, or 8 it was an instant warning to get out
the file. I think they were intended originally to fit on Athearn
locomotives that had the clip mount from above, so that a #5 draft
gear didn't have room to be screwed down. I think the #6 was also the
recommended coupler for the old Atlas hood units, but like everything
else, it didn't fit the Atlas stuff either. The coupler pockets from
hell. The only thing worse to put Kadees on was a Model Power E-unit.
Take a look some time at what there is to work with.
Just remember, when in doubt, use a hammer, blowtorch, and industrial
abrasives to make a #5 fit <g>.
Andy
Keith Rogers
Perhaps. Does politeness also dictate that we should not call him
by his first name unless he has asked us to?
Who's Jim Kelly?
Kiyo Inaba
>I've called Kato USA a couple of times. The first time the phone was
>answered Kah-toe. The second time it was answered Kay-toe. When I then
Of course you have to pronounce as Japanese ;-) It is similar to
Kah-toe, but actually no 'h' and 'tow' is closer than 'toe' I
think...
Kiyo, as native Japanese speaker.
Andy Harman
>I've called Kato USA a couple of times. The first time the phone was
>answered Kah-toe. The second time it was answered Kay-toe. When I then
>asked which pronounciation was correct, I was told they used both
>interchangeably. Go figure!
Well Volkswagen gave up years ago and as early as 1965 I remember
hearing their commercials prounouncing the name the Americanized
phonetic way. Just like former NYC Mayor Ed Koch, whose German name
is pronounced "Cook" but obviously one of his ancestors just gave up
and decided to live with "Kotch". I know three different people in
Cincinnati with this same name (no relation to each other), and two of
them insist on "Cook" while the third is "Kotch".
As to Kato... as long as Hiroshi Kato is running Kato USA, I'll
pronounce his name right. I bet they don't call him "Mr. Kaytoe". I
was content to just say "Kaytoe" for a long time, until I met Mr. Kato
last year, and then there's this whole O.J. thing.... <g>
Andy
Andy Sperandeo
Mr. Jim Kelly, my esteemed colleague, is managing editor of MODEL
RAILROADER Magazine, editor of our annual magazine GREAT MODEL
RAILROADS, and author of both "MR visits Kato" in our November 1991
issue and "MR visits Japan" in December 1991. Because of the business
we're in, both Jim and I happen to know Mr. Hiroshi Kato well enough to
address him informally by his first name. And both of us pronounce the
name of his company as his family prefers, "Kah-toe."
Thank you very much,
Andy Sperandeo
Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
Inlinebob
> Because of the business we're in, both Jim and I happen to know Mr.
>Hiroshi Kato well enough to address him informally by his first name.
Do you and your "esteemed colleagues" ( is anyone in this hobby esteemed?)
know Mr. Kato well enough to suggest that he bring back a run of HO
SD-40's? ;-)
Rob Davis
Ahead of the Torch: The Online Journal for Railroad and Industrial
Preservation
is now the home of MIlwaukee 4-8-4 #261 on line!
The full #261 winter plow train schedule is found at:
http://www.injersey.com/Media/IJFeatures/AOTT/
Merry Christmas everyone!