Kadee couplings for Athearn freight cars
Anthony
I need help working out which kadee couplings to use for Athearn
freight cars. I have mainly 40' cars, but also 2 86' cars.
Any help would be useful.
Thanks
Anthony
Spam bots -> awi...@funnelwebinternet.com.au
an...@NOSPAM.ozemail.com.au
Remove the NOSPAM, to mail me.
Russell Hedges
Pretty much a case of dropping a #5 into the box. Be careful to follow
the directions, and get a Kadee coupler height guage to insure that they
all match and the trip pins clear the rails.
Russell Hedges
Andy Browne
"Russell Hedges" <rus...@sandiegowaltz.org> wrote in message
news:3DE1C181...@sandiegowaltz.org...
>
>
> Pretty much a case of dropping a #5 into the box. Be careful to follow
> the directions, and get a Kadee coupler height guage to insure that they
> all match and the trip pins clear the rails.
>
> Russell Hedges
I use No. 27s extensively on Athearn cars because the No. 5s sit too low
unless one uses washers to raise the body.
The stock coupler mounts for the 86 footers aren't worth a pinch of salt.
I guess that a No. 5 in it's own box would work here, but I used a No. 454
swing bracket adaptor for the two that I have converted so far.
Andy
EBTBOB
The Athearn cars are, as said, pretty easy to use with KD couplers. One
thing to consider. Screwing on the couplers. I have no 86 ft cars, so I will
speak to your 40, 50, and 54 ft styles as well as passenger cars.
Simply put the KD into the coupler box, and clip on the coupler box
cover. By the way, do this before installing the frame to the car or, in the
case of the passenger cars, before putting the trucks on the frame. Then take
a pin vise with a #53 bit and drill a hole right down thru the hole in the
middle of the coupler box cover.
This drilling will also take you thru the stud the coupler is installed over.
Then take a pin vise with a 1-72 tap and thread the hole. Screw in a 1-72x 1/8
screw and your are finished. You never have to worry about that coupler box
cover coming off.
KD makes a tap and drill set that includes a tap, tap drill bit and
clearence drill bit. Clearence drill bit is to have a hole that the screw can
be pushed thru.
Bob
B
Wolf Kirchmeir
=>I use No. 27s extensively on Athearn cars because the No. 5s sit too low
=>unless one uses washers to raise the body.
Athearn puts couplers at the right height, so I think your analysis is a
little hasty.
Occasionally, the couplers droop. Glue a bit of bond paper at the back of
the coupler box. This will push the back of the coupler down, and the front
(w/ knuckle) up. And/or _gently_ bend the front of the coupler box cover up
to raise the front of the coupler. Just make sure it can still move freely
side to side -- file the edge of the clip smooth and squirt a bit of graphite
in the box.
If "too low" is your conclusion from trip pins fouling turnouts, etc, then
the trip pins are not bent properly. They can be fixed by judicious bending
with a needle nose pliers: grasp the knuckle and bottom of the trip pin
between the jaws and squeeze _gently_. However, it's best to use KD's special
pliers for this; I finally bought one, and wonder why I begrudged mnyself
this essential tool.
BTW, get a KD coupler height gage, and mount it on a pice of track fastened
to a piece of 1x2 or 1x3. . Well worth the investment.
Wolf Kirchmeir
If you didn't want to go to Chicago, why did you get on this train?
(Garrison Keillor)
Edward A. Oates
installed Kadee accurately so that they perfectly match the NMRA gauge
coupler height. That flat has become my coupler reference. I have a number 5
on one end and a number 58 on the other. I use Kadee washers to raise cars
as necessary and to insure not too much wobble on Athearn trucks.
You also need to be concerned about coupler droop on Athearn boxes as the
couplers do tend to flop around. Under no load they may be at the correct
height, then under load (a long train, for example), they ride higher. A
piece of styrene glued to the inside of metal coupler cover can work to
minimize the room the couple has to move around without compromising the
height.
I've found that with the couple height set properly that the "air hose"
couple release pin is also at the correct height to clear turnout frogs,
etc. If it is too low, use the Kadee tool to correct it. Don't try regular
pliers. You will likely ruin a couple of couplers, and then just buy the
tool anyway. Or you could just cut it off.
Ed.
in article jbysxveflzcngvpbp...@news1.sympatico.ca, Wolf
Kirchmeir at wwol...@sympatico.ca wrote on 11/25/02 8:30 AM:
> On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:42:12 +1100, Andy Browne wrote:
>
> =>I use No. 27s extensively on Athearn cars because the No. 5s sit too low
> =>unless one uses washers to raise the body.
>
> BTW, get a KD coupler height gage, and mount it on a pice of track fastened
> to a piece of 1x2 or 1x3. . Well worth the investment.
>
>
> Wolf Kirchmeir
>
> If you didn't want to go to Chicago, why did you get on this train?
> (Garrison Keillor)
>
>
--
Ed Oates
DCC wiring information is at http://www.wiringfordcc.com
Jerry Barnes
I drill, tap and use a 2-56 screw to mount a Kadee number 5 coupler to
Athearn Freight cars. The metal clip has a tendency to cause the coupler to
droop. It also has a tendency to pop off.
I now also use the Kadee number 58 coupler on any car that will match to
the coupler gauge. I also replace any other coupler with Kadee's.
I have a set of the Kadee 40 series that I use when the coupler needs to be
shorter, needs to be higher or lower or needs to be longer. I drill, tap,
use a screw (2-56 or 1-72) to hold most all couplers on and ensure that all
my
car or locomotive matches the Kadee Coupler Gauge.
--
MRR PCB
Jerry F. Barnes
http://home.att.net/~mrr_pcb/index.html
"Anthony" <an...@NOSPAM.ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:3de1bd58...@news.ozemail.com.au...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 20-Nov-02
EBTBOB
I agree with Andy. On almost every Athearn car I own, I had to use one
red KD washer on the bolsters to get the coupler height up to match the KD
height gauge.
Bob
Stefan L.
news:jbysxveflzcngvpbp...@news1.sympatico.ca:
>>
> Athearn puts couplers at the right height, so I think your analysis is
Since when? On pretty well ALL of their inexpensive kits the #5 sits too
low without a washer.
Stefan
Stefan L.
news:0TsE9.31170$hK4.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> Anthony
>
> I drill, tap and use a 2-56 screw to mount a Kadee number 5 coupler to
> Athearn Freight cars. The metal clip has a tendency to cause the
> coupler to droop. It also has a tendency to pop off.
This is probably the best advice for #5s. One can also use a thin styrene
shim inside the coupler box (at the front opening)to prevent drooping.
Stefan
Andy Browne
"Wolf Kirchmeir" <wwol...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message :
>
> Athearn puts couplers at the right height, so I think your analysis is a
> little hasty.
No.
Athearn coupler boxes were around long before KD couplers were invented, and
so they never were designed for KDs.
The only Athearn cars I have found to accept a No. 5 at the correct height
without using shim washers are the 34' coal hoppers and the tank cars.
>
> Occasionally, the couplers droop. Glue a bit of bond paper at the back of
> the coupler box. This will push the back of the coupler down, and the
front
> (w/ knuckle) up. And/or _gently_ bend the front of the coupler box cover
up
> to raise the front of the coupler. Just make sure it can still move freely
> side to side -- file the edge of the clip smooth and squirt a bit of
graphite
> in the box.
>
> If "too low" is your conclusion from trip pins fouling turnouts, etc, then
> the trip pins are not bent properly. They can be fixed by judicious
bending
> with a needle nose pliers: grasp the knuckle and bottom of the trip pin
> between the jaws and squeeze _gently_. However, it's best to use KD's
special
> pliers for this; I finally bought one, and wonder why I begrudged mnyself
> this essential tool.
I very rarely have to adjust trip pin height if the boxes are mounted
correctly, and I frequently use a strip of .010 x .030 styrene mounted
across the front of the KD box to remove sag.
Another trick of mine when mounting KDs to Athearn box cars is to turn the
floor upside down. This, along with correct 33" wheels, will put a No.5
coupler at the right height.
>
> BTW, get a KD coupler height gage, and mount it on a pice of track
fastened
> to a piece of 1x2 or 1x3. . Well worth the investment.
No argument with that - it's a no brainer.
Cheers,
Andy
Russell Hedges
Yes.
Athearn draft gear ISN'T designed for Kadee couplers. Kadee couplers
are designed to work with Athearn draft gear.
Kadee couplers are an after market item. Designed to work with various
draft gear already in existance, including Athearn.
When exactly were Kadee couplers invented? I have no idea. And when
did Athearn start making plastic freight cars? I don't know that
either. I am exceedingly ignorant.
Russell Hedges
Andy Browne wrote:
> "Wolf Kirchmeir" <wwol...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message :
>
>>Athearn puts couplers at the right height, so I think your analysis is a
>>little hasty.
>
>
> No.
> Athearn coupler boxes were around long before KD couplers were invented, and
> so they never were designed for KDs.
>
<snip>
Wolf Kirchmeir
=>"Wolf Kirchmeir" <wwol...@sympatico.ca> wrote in
=>news:jbysxveflzcngvpbp...@news1.sympatico.ca:
=>
=>>>
=>> Athearn puts couplers at the right height, so I think your analysis is
=>
=>Since when? On pretty well ALL of their inexpensive kits the #5 sits too
=>low without a washer.
=>Stefan
Well, after correcting the droop, I find the couplers are at the right
height.....
Mebbe it's the water up here. :-)
Andy Browne
>
>
> Yes.
>
> Athearn draft gear ISN'T designed for Kadee couplers. Kadee couplers
> are designed to work with Athearn draft gear.
>
> Kadee couplers are an after market item. Designed to work with various
> draft gear already in existance, including Athearn.
>
> When exactly were Kadee couplers invented? I have no idea. And when
> did Athearn start making plastic freight cars? I don't know that
> either. I am exceedingly ignorant.
I wouldn't have thought so from your post :-)
The earliest reference to Kadee "magnematic"couplers I can find at the
moment is an ad in the December 1960 RMC, which shows a KD disconnect log
car fitted with these couplers.
The next Kadee ad I could find appeared in the August 1962 RMC. This ad
featured their MKD 5&10 series magnematic coupler.
I could be wrong here, but I think that this coupler is now called the No. 4
Athearn locos and freight cars were being advertised by America's Hobby
Centre in the January 1959 RMC, so they were introduced to the hobby at
least as early as 1958.
As an aside, Roundhouse advertised a new chemical tank car, a 50' double
door box car and a 50' gondola in the April 1960 RMC.
The June 1960 issue had a Test Track revue of the 50' box car, and said,
quote: "Our sample was equipped with an NMRA X2f on one end and the new
Kadee coupler on the other, using the MDC coupler pocket. No difficulty was
experienced in installing either coupler."
That same 50' box car, along with the gondola and the chemical tank car
appeared in an Athearn ad in the November 1962 RMC.
Andy
Andy Browne
>
>
> Yes.
>
> Athearn draft gear ISN'T designed for Kadee couplers. Kadee couplers
> are designed to work with Athearn draft gear.
<snip>
Russell,
Take an Athearn undeframe of your choice, put a KD No. 5 centering spring in
the draft gear box, and view the underframe side - on at eye level.
You will see the sides of the centering spring protruding above the side of
the draft gear box. This, in itself, will not allow the Athearn cover plate
to clip down the way it was designed to, and allows KDs to sag.
The good news though, is that by filing a little material off each side of
the front of the cover plate, it will sit down inside the KD centering
spring.
By doing this, I have been able to minimise coupler sag, and the cover plate
clips down the way it was meant to.
Andy
Nelson Kennedy
> moment is an ad in the December 1960 RMC,
And that sounds about right from my memory, but there were Kadees before
the Magnematic! I think it was called the K type and it had a thin straight
pin that came down from the moving part of the knuckle and was pulled
sideways (to uncouple) by a mechanical ramp that was raised from the centre
of the track bed when uncoupling was required. I'd place them at about 1955
but they may go back earlier than that.
--
Nelson Kennedy
Christchurch, New Zealand
NZR 0 gauge and H0 Espee at http://downunder.railfan.net
Stuff for 1:32 models at http://ninemill.railfan.net
Nelson Kennedy
About 1952 KaDee, solved the coupling problem and introduced a crude
hair-spring loaded lipless knuckle. Uncoupling was accomplished by spreading
the vertical knuckle pins with a diamond shaped "ramp". The draft gear box
was very unfriendly, requiring major surgery for mounting in most cases. A
few years later the knuckle was refined, a side coil spring replaced the
older one and the shank was made to fit existing boxes; creating the #4.
Although still compatible, the older couplers were often referred to as
"blobs". Globe introduced a dummy with a large pivot ring. When Athearn
acquired Globe and started plastic fabrication , their equipment used boxes
for these. Due to popularity, KaDee, introduced the #5 shank.
Here's the URL to that page where, about half way down you can find the
history and pictures of the early Kadees.
http://www.geocities.com/budb3/arts/tech/cup.html
Russell Hedges
Good solution to a common problem. Once common, as no one buys kits
these days. Or so I have heard.
I have clipped off the protruding parts of the centering spring. That
didn't work too well. Did the #5 always use the bronze centering
spring? What are those tabs on the spring FOR, anyway?
I have bent the part of the box cover that sticks out under the shank,
to support the coupler. I have also broken off the part of the cover
that protrudes under the shank trying to bend it up a little.
Filing the cover plate seems like a good solution to me.
Russell Hedges
Andy Browne
"Nelson Kennedy" <nel...@cyberxpress.co.nz> wrote in message
news:as22t2$n1i9h$1...@ID-148717.news.dfncis.de...
Thanks Nelson.
Jim Bernier
the mid 50's. This coupler was reviewed in MR in 1954/55 and made a big impact
on the hobby. It had a vertical pin that dropped down from the face of the
knucke and was a mechanical design - the uncoupling ramp was a diamond shaped
affair.
The MK series followed and used the now familiar 'glad hand' and a magnetic
ramp. The MKD series with the 'delayed' feature came inthe mid to late 60's.
The Athearn/Globe freight cars came out before the Kadee coupler.
Jim Bernier
MousePad
"Andy Browne" <brow...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3de475c8$0$28969$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> You will see the sides of the centering spring protruding above the side
of
> the draft gear box. This, in itself, will not allow the Athearn cover
plate
> to clip down the way it was designed to, and allows KDs to sag.
My method will probably make some people scream in horror...
First, I clip off the little protrusions on the Kadee spring. At that
point, I've got a friction problem with the clip that graphite doesn't quite
solve. So I take the clip and bend it down, very slightly, into a U shape,
and bend the sides back to vertical. Then I pop on the clip, and add a drop
of glue to the edge if it feels loose.
It works well for me. Minimal coupler sag, good centering.
ADY
--
adyoung (at) sbcglobal (dot) net
Andy Browne
"MousePad" <adyoungentirely.too.much...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote in message news:uu9sutp...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> My method will probably make some people scream in horror...
>
> First, I clip off the little protrusions on the Kadee spring. At that
> point, I've got a friction problem with the clip that graphite doesn't
quite
> solve. So I take the clip and bend it down, very slightly, into a U
shape,
> and bend the sides back to vertical. Then I pop on the clip, and add a
drop
> of glue to the edge if it feels loose.
>
> It works well for me. Minimal coupler sag, good centering.
>
> ADY
> --
> adyoung (at) sbcglobal (dot) net
>
>
If it works for you, do it.
Cheers,
Andy
Daniel A. Mitchell
much vertical slop in the mounting (even spring loaded) you'll have
sporadic uncoupling or 'low pin' snags under heavy drawbar loads.
Pushing is worse than pulling, but the same problems appear both ways.
With 50 cars or more, strange things start to happen. Even with more
rigid coupler mounts, the frames of some cars will flex enough to cause
such problems. The new plastic shank couplers also cause this, by the
shank flexing. Kadee's plastic couplers seem most resistant to this, but
other brands are terrible. The metal couplers are definitely more rigid.
You'll be running a train, and it'll pop apart somewhere. Check the
couplers at the bad joint, and the height is fine. Ten minutes later it
does it again. WATCH the car couplers under load ... you'll see them
trying to lift or sink. If one goes one way and the adjoining the
opposite ... ping, they're uncoupled. Once the load is relieved, they
snap back to proper height.
The first generation HO Atlas RS3, RS11, etc. models were famous for
this. One loco couldn't pull hard enough to flex it's own frame, but
double or triple head them and the rear unit was always popping
couplers. The whole end sill was bending up, and taking the coupler with
it. You had to do some serious beefing-up of the loco frame to prevent it.
Athearn's long flat cars and 'high cubes' also have this problem, for
slightly different mechanical reasons. Anything with a swinging coupler
mount should be regarded with suspicion. The Bachmann heavyweight
passenger cars share this problem, though here it's so obvious almost
anybody can see the droop, even with the coupler unloaded.
Dan Mitchell
==========
Andy Browne
"Daniel A. Mitchell" <danm...@umflint.edu> wrote in message
news:3DE52A4C...@umflint.edu...
<snip>
> The Bachmann heavyweight
> passenger cars share this problem, though here it's so obvious almost
> anybody can see the droop, even with the coupler unloaded.
(sigh......)
I know all about the swinging coupler problems that Spectrum cars have, as
I have ten of them.
As yet I have not fully addressed the problem.