Wiring Tortoise Switches to DCS via AIU

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DJV

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Sep 20, 2003, 3:10:38 PM9/20/03
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Is there a clear cut definition of how to do this?

I'm guessing that I will not be able to use one of the "switch"
connection banks to do this. I will probably have to use a simple two
contact accesory connection thereby treating the switch as either off
or on.

I'll try to contact MTH as well...but figure that the knowledge here
will be much more in depth than the script they'll be reading from.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

DJV

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Sep 20, 2003, 3:23:34 PM9/20/03
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Sorry...follow-up to my own question.

The alternative I've been thinking about is replacing all of the
tortoise switch machines with DZ-1000 remote control switches.

All of my turnouts are using Ross Custom Switches and...if it means an
easy hook-up to the AIU, I'll replace them with DZ-1000's from
Gar-Graves. But...if I have the same problem (i.e. not able to use
the "switch" connection banks, it's probably not worth my effort).
Anyone currently running an operation anywhere near resembling mine,
your input is desired.

Keith Norgrove

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Sep 20, 2003, 4:11:59 PM9/20/03
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On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:10:38 GMT, DJV <vorr...@comcast.net> wrote:

>Is there a clear cut definition of how to do this?
>
>I'm guessing that I will not be able to use one of the "switch"
>connection banks to do this. I will probably have to use a simple two
>contact accesory connection thereby treating the switch as either off
>or on.

Each built in switch in the tortoise is a changeover contact, used
with two wire, one to the centre and the other to one side it will
operate as an 'off-on switch.
This should be OK for any feedback situation.


Perhaps if you expanded your acronyms we could help better.
What are DCS and AIU???????

Keith
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DJV

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Sep 20, 2003, 4:48:19 PM9/20/03
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>Perhaps if you expanded your acronyms we could help better.
>What are DCS and AIU???????
Of course...so sorry. Also might bear noting that I'm working on an
O-96 layout.

DCS is the MTH brand Digital Command System (equivalent...but better
than?...TMCC on the Lionel side of the house).

AIU is their Accesory Interface Unit. It allows operation of 10
switches and 10 accessories when used in conjunction with the digital
controller.

To operate the switches, one would see either a "straight ahead" arrow
or a "crooked arrow" on the digital control pad when controlling a
switch. Tortoise switches aren't that smart. It would seem that only
a switch controller that knows the difference between the two options
can accurately report that information. Naturally, MTH's booklet
pictures their "Rite-Trax" switch in the wiring diagram. I'm not
willing to replace all my Ross Custom Switches, and I'd like to work
with the Tortoises...but, unless there's someone out there to give me
some pointers, I may just upgrade the switch machine to the Gar-Graves
model which will work on the Ross hardware. That's not TOO costly, I
suppose.

I moved about 2 years ago. Packed up a perfectly working layout that
was running off of 2 KW's, a boatload of Tortoises and more Relays and
insulated track than you could shake a fist at. Nothing digital,
though. Now, I'm finally getting around to the layout in the new
house. Much bigger (of course!) and today's technology will allow me
to vastly simplify the "under table" mechanics AND be more realistic
up-top thanks to DCS. So...while it's been about 5 years since I
actively worked on a layout from scratch, I still feel like a total
newbie thanks to all the new gizmos.

Keith Norgrove

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Sep 20, 2003, 6:35:25 PM9/20/03
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On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:48:19 GMT, DJV <vorr...@comcast.net> wrote:


>DCS is the MTH brand Digital Command System (equivalent...but better
>than?...TMCC on the Lionel side of the house).
>
>AIU is their Accesory Interface Unit. It allows operation of 10
>switches and 10 accessories when used in conjunction with the digital
>controller.

OK I found the MTH website, it is singularly devoid of information.
I don't see any mention of feedback from switch to DCS. But I think
perhaps that is not what you meant and I was just assuming you meant
the contacts on the tortoise when you really meant the connection
blocks on the AIU.


>
>To operate the switches, one would see either a "straight ahead" arrow
>or a "crooked arrow" on the digital control pad when controlling a
>switch. Tortoise switches aren't that smart. It would seem that only
>a switch controller that knows the difference between the two options
>can accurately report that information.

I think this is somewhat confusing, there is no sign on the MTH site
that this info is fedback from the switch, the only drawings there
show a normal three wire output circuit operating a twin coil switch
machine.

If the AIU can be programmed for Tortoise/Stall motor designs like
most DCC accessory decoders can then yoiu can just do that. If not
then an external adapter is needed to change the pulses from the AIU
to the polarity change needed by the Tortoise.
This could be a simple electronic circuit, I'm sure a bit of looking
round the web would find one, or a relay.
For example the Hosfelt relay shown here
<http://www.daylightdon.com/diagram.php?type=schematic&schematic=AIUInterface1A>
or even an Atlas snap relay would do. Connect the relay to the AIU
instead of the switchmotor and use the output contacts of the relay to
operate the tortoise. If the switch goes curved when you operate the
straight command just reverse the wires.

Bruce Stull

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Sep 23, 2003, 3:28:19 AM9/23/03
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Do also consider Roto-Motor, Scale Shops, Switchmaster (some as low in cost
as $6.67).

--
www.ScaleShops.com
"DJV" <vorr...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mf9pmvoili5u91g4p...@4ax.com...

TRAINMAN9

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Sep 23, 2003, 9:25:47 AM9/23/03
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>All of my turnouts are using Ross Custom Switches and...if it means an
>easy hook-up to the AIU, I'll replace them with DZ-1000's from
>Gar-Graves. But...if I have the same problem (i.e. not able to use
>the "switch" connection banks, it's probably not worth my effort).

Jeff,

Both the DCS and TMCC system use a similar method for controlling switches and
accessories. They just send the signal in a different way. TMCC sends the
signal to either an Accessory Switch Controller or to a Lionel SC2 switch
contoller. The DCS system sends the signal to the AIU. Unfortunately both
companies designed there respective controllers for their own switches and
never took into account the use of different machines like the Tortise.

I would guess that on your previous none electronic controlled layout you used
switching diodes or a separate DC power source to control the Tortise machines
and then just used simple switch to reverse the polarity.

Having said that, what you might consider is using a controller produced by
Depotronics. It is their Control 1A. What it is an electronic relay that
includes the switching diodes to power the Tortise machine. You just need to
provide AC power to the controller and wire it to both the switch machines and
the AIU. Then the signal from the AIU would be received by the Depotronics
device and the switch position would be controlled by the DCS handheld. They
sell for $19.75 each and can also be set up to provide a non-derailing feature.

I bought six of them at York several years ago and never installed them. If you
are interested go to the Depotronics web site and look at the specifications
for the 1A controller. I am not planning on using them and would like to sell
them. If you are interested let me know. I'll make you a nice deal on all of
them.

Fatty Falcone

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Jan 14, 2015, 12:18:03 PM1/14/15
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replying to TRAINMAN9 , Fatty Falcone wrote:
If1 & #2 of the aiu the center post gos
you
> are interested go to the Depotronics web site and look at the
specifications
> for the 1A controller. I am not planning on using them and would like to
sell
> them. If you are interested let me know. I'll make you a nice deal on all
of
> them.


very easy hook up use a atlas snap relay. wire the top 4 posts of the rely
as follows , the left side top post to the right side bottom post, the
right side top post to the t left side to bottom post then splice the 2
wires in the center and connect one each to the tortoise switch motor. the
other 2 posts below are to be connected to a dc transformer hot and
common the bottom 3 posts go to the aiu or sc 2 the 2 out side posts got
the # 1 & # 2 of the aiu or sc 2. the center post goes to the common of
the ac transformer the in post on the aiu goes to the ac transformers hot
post google wiring atlas switch motor s with mth aiu ( a atlas switch
motor is the same as a atlas snap relay but with out the tracks )

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Fatty Falcone

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Jan 14, 2015, 12:18:03 PM1/14/15
to
replying to DJV , Fatty Falcone wrote:
very easy hook up use a atlas snap relay. wire the top 4 posts of the rely
as follows
, the left side top post to the right side bottom post, the right side top
post to
the t left side to bottom post then splice the 2 wires in the center and
connect one
each to the tortoise switch motor. the other 2 posts below are to be
connected to a
dc transformer hot and common the bottom 3 posts go to the aiu or sc 2
the 2 out
side posts got the # 1 & # 2 of the aiu or sc 2. the center post goes to
the
common of the ac transformer the in post on the aiu goes to the ac
transformers hot
post google wiring atlas switch motor s with mth aiu ( a atlas switch
motor is
the same as a atlas snap relay but with out the tracks )very easy hook up
use a atlas snap relay. wire the top 4 posts of the rely as follows
, the left side top post to the right side bottom post, the right side top
post to
the t left side to bottom post then splice the 2 wires in the center and
connect one
each to the tortoise switch motor. the other 2 posts below are to be
connected to a
dc transformer hot and common the bottom 3 posts go to the aiu or sc 2
the 2 out
side posts got the # 1 & # 2 of the aiu or sc 2. the center post goes to
the
common of the ac transformer the in post on the aiu goes to the ac
transformers hot
post google wiring atlas switch motor s with mth aiu ( a atlas switch
motor is

Peter Godden

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Mar 16, 2020, 10:18:04 AM3/16/20
to
replying to DJV, Peter Godden wrote:
Hi Jeff,
I know it is many years since you made this post... and you will have a
solution by now. The simple reversing switch you used to use is in fact 2x
switches in one, with cross-over wires. 2x of the DCS-AIU terminals can be
used to create the same as the simple reversing switch. Use the common
terminals and connect the RED (hot or +) wire to one and the BLACK (cold or -)
wire to the other. Connect the cross-over wires across the 2x AIU terminals
and connect them to the tortoise motor. When setting up the AIU just make the
2x relay terminals act as a single switch. I have done it over both my AIUs
and it works great. Cheers Pete - Sydney, Australia

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for full context, visit https://www.polytechforum.com/trains/wiring-tortoise-switches-to-dcs-via-aiu-6028-.htm


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