Problem with Kato SD40-2
Bob
I recently bought a Kato (HO) SD40-2 and have the problem they described on
there website of the loco's light starting to flicker and the engine
stopping. They said the problem was due to poor electrical contact. I
followed the instructions they gave of bending over the motor contact strip.
I tested it and it seemed to run fine but then the problem came back. I took
it apart again and pushed down on the strip to make sure it was making good
contact. Again went I first tested it everything was fine but then the
problem reoccurred. I'm open to any and all suggestions on how I can fix
this problem.
Thanks,
Bob
Fred Dabney
The standard fix for this mess is the same as the fix for the
similar problem with Athearn's solderless contact system: Solder.
Solder flexible wires around the damned strips between the trucks
and the circuit board or motor brushes.
In the Kato case just trace where the strips are anchored, and jumper
around them with fine, flexible wire.
I've not had one of those apart so I don't know the gamy details
of their mounting, but you'll probably need to take them out of the
model to do the soldering, else you are apt to melt stuff.
Fred D.
Mark Bau
> From: "Bob" <_DEF...@prodigy.net>
> Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com
> Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:05:57 -0600
> Subject: Problem with Kato SD40-2
>
>
> I recently bought a Kato (HO) SD40-2 and have the problem they described on
> there website of the loco's light starting to flicker and the engine
> stopping. They said the problem was due to poor electrical contact. I
> followed the instructions they gave of bending over the motor contact strip.
> I tested it and it seemed to run fine but then the problem came back. I took
> it apart again and pushed down on the strip to make sure it was making good
> contact. Again went I first tested it everything was fine but then the
> problem reoccurred. I'm open to any and all suggestions on how I can fix
> this problem.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
Cut off the tabs, hard wire it and cancel your order for the snoots,
problems solved!
Mark
Richard A. Schumacher
There's no need to pay $120 for a model with this sort
of design and manufacturing flaws. Other manufacturers
do that for $40 or less. Returns are the best way of
getting Kato's attention and of increasing the chances
that they won't repeat these mistakes.
David Woodell
I just sold the last Kato model I had. I bought the last one I will buy
a good while back. While I had no problems with the Kato models I had
(GP35s and SD40s), I don't like the fact that it is impossible or very
expensive to buy another one 2 or 3 years after they release them and
the things cost so much that I can't afford to buy a bunch of them when
they first come out. Now, to go along with being expensive and limited
production, you have to perform repairs on them right out of the box
before you can use them. No thanks.
David
Fred Dabney
Add to that the impossibility of finding repair parts. Mostly
you have to find a used one somewhere to cannibalize. That too
is a crock. Atlas, at least tries to make repair parts available,
but neither Kato nor P2K are much use a few months after a model
is introduced.
There used to be a federal law about that sort of thing, but it's
no longer enforced it seems. Something like seven years, as I
remember...
Fred D.
who cares who I am
to those who actually want to run their engines.
Denis F. Blake
Columbus, Ohio
TTHOTS
who cares who I am
>getting Kato's attention and of increasing the chances
>that they won't repeat these mistakes.
You are assuming that Kato pays any attention at all. You are a very foolish
man.
Fred Dabney
> >getting Kato's attention and of increasing the chances
> >that they won't repeat these mistakes.
>
> You are assuming that Kato pays any attention at all. You are a very
foolish
> man.
It's gonna involve an extra step.
Stuff comes in one door, out another at Kato. They've got their
money back from their resellers, so they don't care one way or
the other. The distributors repeat the process. It's the
dealer at the retail level who will bear the brunt at the first
instance, and if they place their unsold stock on e-bay, then
they may not care much either. After all, to a dealer, e-bay
is little different from normal retail mail order, they just
don't always know how much they'll make on any given sale.
It's going to take a /whole lot/ of customers returning their
models to the retail dealer, or refusing to purchase them at
all before the effect will ooze back up the pipeline to Kato
who will then decide whether the US HO market is worth what
it will take to reverse this trend.
While I oversimplify a bit, in essence e-bay places every dealer
on an equal footing- bit or small. With e-bay, every dealer in
the US and the world, for that matter, has the potential of
having every customer in the world to sell to, which means that
there are probably always going to be buyers for crap, no matter
how egregiously the vendor screws the end-user.
Ultimately, it comes down to the business ethics and pride of
the vendor, and for all we hear about Japanese codes of honor,
it seems like Kato has none.
I wonder if they were always that way, or if it was success that
did this to them?
Fred D.
rathburne
The kato bashers always reveal, sooner or later, their true feelings;
which run much deeper and involve Asia and Asians.
It is one thing to complain about a product or company, but to
then translate that into a bash on a whole country of people is
just plain wrong. Plenty of junk comes out of the USA, does that
mean that we have some bad 'sense of honor'?
I have 4 SD 40-2s. They pull like mules, and run like fine watches.
Never had a problem. Have 2 snoots on the way. Got on kato's website
and within days had new side frames to replace the ones with the
off set holes.
As for parts, try getting parts from Athearn. Good luck! Even
caboose hobbies, the largest train store in the states told
me the tale of terror trying to get parts. I needed some parts
for older katos that I broke (not the engine, me). Called them up,
three rings, nice guy, 2 minutes; 4 days later the parts are in the
mailbox.
The silent majority continues to buy all the katos they can find.
Look at the GP 35s coming out. Look now or they will all be gone.
Of note, this is the EXACT SAME sales strategy that Proto, Atlas,
and even Athearn use now. Nobody seems to bash them for doing it.
Oh well, more units for me!
In article <8arfvk$gdi$1...@bubba.NMSU.Edu>,
--
rathburne
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ifototrain
>to those who actually want to run their engines
here we go again.......i have nothing but great running engines from KATO up to
and including the SD40-2.
I am a modeler, and being a modeler i realize nothing that is sold is not
going to make everyone happy, but.....I also know that some people will never
be happy. If i had the money i would put out an open offer to buy any SD40-2s
from those who don't like them. The 5-15 minutes it takes to have a super
running engine is nothing compared to the 5-15 hours and up to $60 in parts to
look, and run like a KATO.
My hat is off to KATO and the product that they put out.
John Binford
C.L.Zeni
>
> Whoa, now a flickering headlight means Japan itself is at fault?
> The kato bashers always reveal, sooner or later, their true feelings;
> which run much deeper and involve Asia and Asians.
*Watch it* buddy - don't go tarring me with that brush. As one of the
most vocal Kato critics on this newsgroup, I _STRONGLY_ resent the
implication that I'm racist or anti-Asian or whatever. Some of the most
enjoyable times of my life have been in Japan and India.
snip
> I have 4 SD 40-2s. They pull like mules, and run like fine watches.
> Never had a problem. Have 2 snoots on the way. Got on kato's website
> and within days had new side frames to replace the ones with the
> off set holes.
I have one now, a flood victim from the Antique Barn. I also have a
half dozen RCS-2s (Seaboard modeler's gotta have some) that use the same
pick-up system as the SD40-2. Of the six, THREE didn't run out of the
box. A 50% failure rate. That sucks.
> As for parts, try getting parts from Athearn. Good luck! Even
> caboose hobbies, the largest train store in the states told
> me the tale of terror trying to get parts. I needed some parts
> for older katos that I broke (not the engine, me). Called them up,
> three rings, nice guy, 2 minutes; 4 days later the parts are in the
> mailbox.
Do this: Try getting parts for an HO Kato SD40 - not the SD40-2 but the
SD40. Try to get a body shell or underframe. I dare you. If you get
them, send them to me with a bottle of catsup and I'll can eat them.
> The silent majority continues to buy all the katos they can find.
> Look at the GP 35s coming out. Look now or they will all be gone.
> Of note, this is the EXACT SAME sales strategy that Proto, Atlas,
> and even Athearn use now. Nobody seems to bash them for doing it.
Where you been - haven't you been reading the Limited Run thread? I
don't care if Kato, Athearn or Taco Bell does limited runs. Limited
runs bite the wax tadpole.
> Oh well, more units for me!
As far as Kato goes, you can certainly have my share.
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html
http://www.trainweb.org/zeniphotos/zenihome.html
How much deeper would the ocean be without sponges?
Fred Dabney
> The kato bashers always reveal, sooner or later, their true feelings;
> which run much deeper and involve Asia and Asians.
I think you read things into what I wrote that I didn't say!
> It is one thing to complain about a product or company, but to
> then translate that into a bash on a whole country of people is
> just plain wrong. Plenty of junk comes out of the USA, does that
> mean that we have some bad 'sense of honor'?
If anything, what I said is that given the famed "sense of honor"
attributed to the Japanese, Kato seems intent to blow it.
> I have 4 SD 40-2s. They pull like mules, and run like fine watches.
> Never had a problem. Have 2 snoots on the way. Got on kato's website
> and within days had new side frames to replace the ones with the
> off set holes.
> As for parts, try getting parts from Athearn. Good luck! Even
> caboose hobbies, the largest train store in the states told
> me the tale of terror trying to get parts. I needed some parts
> for older katos that I broke (not the engine, me). Called them up,
> three rings, nice guy, 2 minutes; 4 days later the parts are in the
> mailbox.
I've ordered parts from various sources for Athearn for years, and
while not everything can be had at all times, they do show up.
Try that with Kato- I've a friend who needs parts for some dash9's
and they are not available, and from what I have heard they may
never be.
Fred D.
Frank A. Rosenbaum
only limited thing about the athearn runs was the paint, not the bodies or
rolling stock. If Athearn painted a PA 1 for the Michigas Central and touted
it as a "Limited Run" that is fine. You can still get a PA 1 in 5 years and
paint it for the Michigas Central. Kato's Limited Runs mean that if you
don't get the body style when it comes out, you don't get it anytime after
that.
All the other manufactures that have been doing limited runs for the plastic
shells have been taking their lumps from us. The majority consensus is "WE
DON'T LIKE IT". (Quote paraphrased from actual posts)
--
From Frank Rosenbaum
New Email:faros...@earthlink.net
Could you please repeat that from the word "the"?
C.L.Zeni <Spiney...@hedge.hog> wrote in message
news:38D186...@mindspring.com...
DHENK
writes:
>As for parts, try getting parts from Athearn. Good luck! Even
>caboose hobbies, the largest train store in the states told
>me the tale of terror trying to get parts.
Got an example of parts you can't get? (just curious if I'm missing something)
I've had excellent availability of parts for folks Athearns in our shop. In
fact I try to keep the Athearn repair kit (a box of assorted parts (wheels,
gears drive shafts etc) I bought a few years back stocked. If I don't have a
part I've been able (to date) to get it directly from Athearn.
Kato is the one I'm more prone to have supply side problems with for customers.
Atlas is still my number one when it comes to getting parts. They publish a
comprehensive parts list and keep a good supply on hand. I got all the parts I
needed to rebuild an old RS-3 I'd run into the ground on various club and the
shop layout.
Dave Henk
Jacksonville, FL
who cares who I am
You gotta be kidding me. You are congratulating a company that no longer
strives for excellence! You are giving applauds to a company that has fallen
from the top of the mountain to a point about halfway down! You are supporting
a company that no longer supports you, the customer! My guess is that you also
supported Clinton as well. Go figure.
Lindy9113
>strives for excellence! You are giving applauds to a company that has fallen
>from the top of the mountain to a point about halfway down! You ar
THIS HAS GOTTA BE GOOD FOR ABOUT 1,000 flames ...
Dave
in Kansas
Fred Dabney
This whole mess sort of reminds me of the status of Lionel in recent
years.
While they seldom offered a product that would appeal to a scale
model railroader, they were acknowledged as being at the top of
the pile in toy trains. Good, solid products, sturdy enough to
be used for the toys they were, inexpensive enough that folk
/bought/ them as toys for their children.
Now they seem to be aimed more at people who will use them as
investments to send their children to college on, and the
quality has suffered immeasurably, to judge from comments
often offered here, and their clock seems to be wiped with
great regularity by folk who weren't even born when Lionel
was the alternate word for "toy train".
So too with Kato, at least with US outline, HO scale models.
Perhaps they still rule in N scale, but if so that says a lot
for the sad state of the N scale market. Or, just possibly
they have managed not to shoot themselves in the foot in that
market compared to the way they have in HO.
Anyway, the parallels are there, and are strong.
Fred D.
Rusty Keeney
I am) wrote:
<snip>
My guess is that you also
>supported Clinton as well. Go figure.
>
>
>Denis F. Blake
>Columbus, Ohio
>TTHOTS
Is that DeWitt Clinton?
who cares who I am
Close, DimWitt Clinton
NGNutt
>My guess is that you also
>supported Clinton as well. Go figure.
While I support your right to disagree with John's opinion of Kato and
their products, I find your last sentence, quoted above, to be borish and
childish.
Why is it necessary for you to make such a supposition? Better to let
people think you are small minded than to open your mouth and confirm the fact.
Bob
Ifototrain
>fact I try to keep the Athearn repair kit (a box of assorted parts (wheels,
>gears drive shafts etc
Interesting.......Seems our shop is not able to get any powered trucks for the
GP units lately, try the last 6 months.....how about you?
John Binford
Ifototrain
love it. Why? When i buy a limited run kit i feel like i have something that
most do not have. Secondly being a custom painter and detailer i can make a
few more bucks on these engines due to the fact that they are limited run, and
with 5-15 minutes of tune ups they pul like mules as a previous post mentioned.
Anyone here ever trade sports cards? If you have you would notice that they
have insert cards that are numbered. Why, well it creates a desire of the
customer, the chance of owning one of these inserts is what drives people to
buy, to know that the value will only go up. Well believe it or not the value
of KATO SD40-2's will go up a sure as the sun will come up tommorow.
John Binford
Steve Lynch
Ifototrain wrote in message
<20000318002644...@ng-ce1.aol.com>...
john a dalton
>Hmmm? I see some folks don't like the limited run theory, Well i gotta say i
>love it. Why? When i buy a limited run kit i feel like i have something that
>most do not have. Secondly being a custom painter and detailer i can make a
>few more bucks on these engines due to the fact that they are limited run, and
>with 5-15 minutes of tune ups they pul like mules as a previous post mentioned.
>
>Anyone here ever trade sports cards? If you have you would notice that they
>have insert cards that are numbered. Why, well it creates a desire of the
>customer, the chance of owning one of these inserts is what drives people to
>buy, to know that the value will only go up. Well believe it or not the value
>of KATO SD40-2's will go up a sure as the sun will come up tommorow.
>
>John Binford
....interesting post, John....i've noticed that the engines that are
custom painted and detailed bring quite a bit more on eBay....quite a
bit more....but that includes the fairly-common Athearns, Model Power
kitbashes, Atlases, Stewarts, etc, as well as the Katos.... :))
....is it the custom painting and detailing that folks are buying, or
the particular brand of engine, or both ?.... :))
.....i was a stamp collector for 48 years....a dyed-in-the-wool
professional philatelist....a perfectionist in my collecting...."only
the perfect copy"....then i quit....put the whole thing "on the
shelf"...too much crap going on in the "hobby"....got right
tiresome... :))
....so then i came back to model railroading where i could buy ALL the
trains i wanted, in ALL the road names i wanted, in ALL the prototype
colors and variations i wanted, as long as i had the money left over
from taking care of Sweetie.... :))
....and i still feel the same way about it....i simply refuse to deal
with anybody who raises the street price of their goods by limiting
the availability of them....i think it's UN-AMERICAN, actually....
:))
....but, that's just my opinion....i'm an old pfart who's seen what
"limited quantities" has done to stamp collecting, sports cards,
diecast metal, dinner plates, and most any other thing that has the
word "collector" in the advertising....the USPS is the latest rip-off
with their recent commemoratives sold "only to collectors" from the
underground vault in Kansas City, and not available at "your local
post office".... :))
....count me out of the "limited edition" foo-fra....i'll just run my
meager railroad (without handrails) around and around, and if one
breaks down, i'll just buy another one just like it,...and it might be
custom painted and detailed, too....but it will be the custom labor
i'm buying, not the "limited quantity" of the engine.... :))
....big john.... :))
Fred Dabney
that they
> have insert cards that are numbered. Why, well it creates a desire of
the
> customer, the chance of owning one of these inserts is what drives
people to
> buy, to know that the value will only go up. Well believe it or not
the value
> of KATO SD40-2's will go up a sure as the sun will come up tommorow.
If I was putting my locos in a binder to gloat over, that attitude
would make sense.
But I buy my engines to /run/ on a working model railroad, operated
by live people, some of whom are a bit ham-fisted.
A friend of mine was commenting on those huge motor homes, wondering
how comfortable he'd feel about trying to parallel park the family's
30 year savings in heavy traffic, and that's how I feel about putting
a "collector's item" on the club layout. If I own it, damn it I want
to own it, not the other way around.
Fred D.
Bill Ford
What do you mean by the term "ham-fisted"?
I have been a ham radio operator most of my life and a model railroader
for just a short time (30 years now) and I am just wondering is you
think that ham radio operators have a "heavy" fist?
By the way, that is a hobby (Amateur Radio) that is quickly going
through drastic changes due to recent decisions by the FCC.
LOL
Bill Ford KE5IN
Cabot, Ar.
Dave Mitton
the expression "ham fisted" or "ham handed" has nothing to do with
amateur radio. It's usually means someone that is clumsy in a way that tends
to abuse things.
Dave. (one time former "ham" back when I could build a Heathkit)
TOM
I heard that you quit collecting stamps because they didn't have rivets...
:>))
<><><> TOM <><><>
Proud Member Of The Haggis
TOM
>
> > Anyone here ever trade sports cards? If you have you would notice
> that they
> > have insert cards that are numbered. Why, well it creates a desire of
> the
> > customer, the chance of owning one of these inserts is what drives
> people to
> > buy, to know that the value will only go up. Well believe it or not
> the value
> > of KATO SD40-2's will go up a sure as the sun will come up tommorow.
>
> If I was putting my locos in a binder to gloat over, that attitude
> would make sense.
>
> But I buy my engines to /run/ on a working model railroad, operated
> by live people, some of whom are a bit ham-fisted.
>
> A friend of mine was commenting on those huge motor homes, wondering
> how comfortable he'd feel about trying to parallel park the family's
> 30 year savings in heavy traffic, and that's how I feel about putting
> a "collector's item" on the club layout. If I own it, damn it I want
> to own it, not the other way around.
>
> Fred D.
If ye gotta park it, call Sweetie... :>))
Any woman what can thread a sewin' machine whilst it's a-runnin jus gots to
be good!!! :>))
Jus axe Big John!!! :>))
TOM
>
> Fred
>
> What do you mean by the term "ham-fisted"?
>
> I have been a ham radio operator most of my life and a model railroader
> for just a short time (30 years now) and I am just wondering is you
> think that ham radio operators have a "heavy" fist?
>
> By the way, that is a hobby (Amateur Radio) that is quickly going
> through drastic changes due to recent decisions by the FCC.
>
> LOL
>
> Bill Ford KE5IN
> Cabot, Ar.
toe, just sending CQ... :>))
I even flubbed my own call (WV6NYX) a couple of times! As I was "listening
out," I had a hard time hearing anything because of the blood rushing in my
ears. My brother (WA6CUW) had to tell me when someone was calling me because
I didn't even recognize my own call sign!
After that it got easier, but never easy. That's why I took the General
Class test in 1963 and bailed to 2 meters and above... :>))
Uncle Sam and girls (not necessarily in that order) got my attention in
1963, the ticket expired and I just never picked it up again.
I'm planning on getting back into the swing of things again. The technical
part is a piece of cake for me, but the code is still a stumbling block and
I'm not sure why...
--
DHENK
(Ifototrain) writes:
>Interesting.......Seems our shop is not able to get any powered trucks for
>the
>GP units lately, try the last 6 months.....how about you?
I don't know why your shop can't get them. We have quite a few sources to back
up our main distributors. However these have been and are still available from
Walthers among others sources. I just checked the Walthers Database (I maintain
one at home) and it shows F7/GP front power, rear power, and front & rear sets
all in stock. Current price is $5.50 each or $11 a set.
Regards,
Dave Henk
Jacksonville, FL
rathburne
1.) For the record, I RUN my units, Kato included.
No collecting, or display only, or investment nonsense.
Run baby, run! I even have weathered some......
2.) What did the FCC do?
In article <38D3F7A1...@worldnet.att.net>,
Bill Ford <BN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Fred
>
> What do you mean by the term "ham-fisted"?
>
> I have been a ham radio operator most of my life and a model
railroader
> for just a short time (30 years now) and I am just wondering is you
> think that ham radio operators have a "heavy" fist?
>
> By the way, that is a hobby (Amateur Radio) that is quickly going
> through drastic changes due to recent decisions by the FCC.
>
> LOL
>
> Bill Ford KE5IN
> Cabot, Ar.
>
> Fred Dabney wrote:
> >
> > > Anyone here ever trade sports cards? If you have you would notice
> > that they
> > > have insert cards that are numbered. Why, well it creates a
desire of
> > the
> > > customer, the chance of owning one of these inserts is what drives
> > people to
> > > buy, to know that the value will only go up. Well believe it or
not
> > the value
> > > of KATO SD40-2's will go up a sure as the sun will come up
tommorow.
> >
> > If I was putting my locos in a binder to gloat over, that attitude
> > would make sense.
> >
> > But I buy my engines to /run/ on a working model railroad, operated
> > by live people, some of whom are a bit ham-fisted.
> >
> > A friend of mine was commenting on those huge motor homes, wondering
> > how comfortable he'd feel about trying to parallel park the family's
> > 30 year savings in heavy traffic, and that's how I feel about
putting
> > a "collector's item" on the club layout. If I own it, damn it I want
> > to own it, not the other way around.
> >
> > Fred D.
>
rathburne
He can't help it, but we understand. Now if they come
out with something in ACL (I think that is his road),
boy, won't the braincells in Columbus really be stewing
as to what to do.
There seems to be three Kato groups.
1.) Kato sucks
2.) I worship at the Kato Alter daily
3.) Kato makes some great running locos that I use and
enjoy on my layout like all the other products out there I
like.
I fall into group 3. You can read the posts and determine
others. This thread will die down in a day or two, and be
back in another month rehashing the same issues.
In the meantime, I hear the snoots are out next week so we
will see how they do.........
In article <20000318000727...@ng-ca1.aol.com>,
Bill Ford
for Amateur Radio Operations licencses effective 15 April 2000 (I think
thats the date) I am not up on all of it but you can go to the
www.arrl.com web site and see whats going on if you like.
Also I run all my units, Kato included, I dont collect then or display
them I weather them heavily and run them hard. I run the brass the very
same way (two S-10 units).
Bill Ford KE5IN
Cabot, Ar.
Tony Burzio
Fred Dabney wrote:
> If I was putting my locos in a binder to gloat over, that attitude
> would make sense.
Actually, as an N Scaler, The Kato company
can just do no wrong. I remember the trash that
we used to get in N sale before the split frame
was developed. I don't want to ever go back.
If I am lucky to get one fine Kato model, I thank
my lucky stars! Thanks Kato!
Tony Burzio
San Diego, CA
who cares who I am
>He can't help it, but we understand. Now if they come
>out with something in ACL (I think that is his road),
>boy, won't the braincells in Columbus really be stewing
>as to what to do.
Man, now you really got my blood boiling. The acl, gag me. Man, try this one,
the Seaboard Air Line. Kato has indeed done some stuff for the Seaboard over
the years. Their outstanding NW2 was done in SAL paint. Got a few of those,
love them. Lets see, ACF, sort of, covered hoppers, and then the RSC2's, what
dogs. Way too many things wrong with those units for a 100.00 + engine.
However, I do have a few of those as well. See, I am not a Kato hater, just
don't think that I will be buying any more Kato products unless they get their
stuff together.
john a dalton
> <><><> TOM <><><>
>Proud Member Of The Haggis
...no, no, in stamp collecting it's the REVERSE of rivets....it's
PERFORATIONS !!!!..... :))
....big "perfed-up" john.... :))
john a dalton
>Bob, we love Denis, despite his Kato feelings (;-))
>He can't help it, but we understand. Now if they come
>out with something in ACL (I think that is his road),
>boy, won't the braincells in Columbus really be stewing
>as to what to do.
>
...."Margaret, i see our children are playing nicely in the back
yard"...."Yes, Peggy, they're throwing sand all over each other and
everything....isn't that cute ?"...."Oh, and look, Margaret, they've
built a fire around the boy next door...he's been ill, you know, with
chills and everything"....."It's good to see children enjoying
themselves and being so thoughtful, isn't it ?"...."It sure is,
Peggy....say, where's that hubby of yours ?"...."Oh, him, he's down in
the basement playing with his trains as usual"...."Oh, i wish Bert
would get an inexpensive hobby like that....golf and the country club
are such a drain on the family budget".... :))
...Anony-moose.... :))
ls...@my-deja.com
"Fred Dabney" <fda...@nmsu.edu> wrote:
> > I just sold the last Kato model I had. I bought the last one I will
> buy
> > a good while back. While I had no problems with the Kato models I
had
> > (GP35s and SD40s), I don't like the fact that it is impossible or
very
> > expensive to buy another one 2 or 3 years after they release them
and
> > the things cost so much that I can't afford to buy a bunch of them
> when
> > they first come out. Now, to go along with being expensive and
limited
> > production, you have to perform repairs on them right out of the box
> > before you can use them. No thanks.
>
> Add to that the impossibility of finding repair parts. Mostly
> you have to find a used one somewhere to cannibalize. That too
> is a crock. Atlas, at least tries to make repair parts available,
> but neither Kato nor P2K are much use a few months after a model
> is introduced.
>
> There used to be a federal law about that sort of thing, but it's
> no longer enforced it seems. Something like seven years, as I
> remember...
>
> Fred D.
>
> Regarding getting spare parts for KATO locomotives, I needed a
replacement headlight lens as I had damaged one. I contacted KATO
U.S.A, INC and was advised that I should contact a Mr.Toshi Smolibowski
who might be able to help me. I contacted by post and duly received
the parts requested after a few weeks. However, I did not have so much
luck with a replacement handrail for a Dash 9.
It does seem to be pot luck with Kato. Surely a ready supply of spare
parts is an issue which should be taken up by the N.M.R.A. on behalf of
modellers. Certainly in Britain organizations do liaise with the trade
and the N.M.R.A. have done so with DCC.
I had a problem with an SD45 which would stop for no apparent reason
when it changed direction. I put this down to a dodgy connection and
generally poked around a bit which seemed to cure the problem, although
for how long I do not know.
I do get ‘miffed’ with KATO about certain things:
Why do I have to mess about decaling number boards when I am paying
£80 –90 for a locomotive when P2K have them ready printed? They
printed them on the Dash 9, why not the SD45?
Likewise if P2K can fit MU hoses for a lot less money. Why not KATO?
Seeing that this slippery industrial plastic is used so much now for
handrails, why in heaven’s name can it not be produced in the right
colour seeing as it does not like paint? Athearn claim they will do so
for their Genesis range. I have a B.N.S.F. Dash 9 which as far as I am
aware should have dark green handrails (please advise if I am wrong
here) yet KATO produce them in black – what a bind! Personally I would
prefer to have wire handrails as long as they were pre-formed.
I became interested in American outline initially because I was seduced
by the superb running qualities of even the cheaper end of the market
compared with the stuff produced for the British market. All wheel
drive & pickup with twin flywheels is unheard of off the shelf back
here. My first American loco was an Athearn SD40-2 which cost me £28
compared to £40-50 or even more for a Hornby. It crept over my son’s
Peco Setrack without any hesitation. From then on I was hooked!
Regards Steve
Worcestershire
England.
Fred Dabney
seduced
> by the superb running qualities of even the cheaper end of the market
> compared with the stuff produced for the British market. All wheel
> drive & pickup with twin flywheels is unheard of off the shelf back
> here. My first American loco was an Athearn SD40-2 which cost me £28
> compared to £40-50 or even more for a Hornby. It crept over my son's
> Peco Setrack without any hesitation. From then on I was hooked!
I've heard that the Bachmann "Branchline" models aren't half bad
for the money in British outline and some have speculated that
they are behind the recent Bachmann steam models in HO since they
seem to be head and shoulders above the Spectrum diesels.
Anyone know for sure?
Fred D.
Fred Dabney
> What do you mean by the term "ham-fisted"?
>
> I have been a ham radio operator most of my life and a model
railroader
> for just a short time (30 years now) and I am just wondering is you
> think that ham radio operators have a "heavy" fist?
Nah, a "ham-fisted ham" is a lid.
> By the way, that is a hobby (Amateur Radio) that is quickly going
> through drastic changes due to recent decisions by the FCC.
I've never been a ham, but I've always had friends who were active
until recent years, so I've lost track of what's going on there.
Last I heard, the old-timers were griping about all the ready-to
run gear taking the fun out of the hobby.
Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
Fred D.
Fred Dabney
No question about their N scale stuff. They did a lot to
raise the bar, a challenge which hasn't yet been matched
by other makers yet, from what I hear from my N scale
buddies.
But they have long been matched in HO and have made no
effort to get back in the lead, in fact seem to have
slid further back with the bugs in their recent drives.
It's been a /long/ time since they set the pattern
for shells and details...
Fred D.
rathburne
I think ACL is a sports injury....?
In article <20000319040350...@ng-ba1.aol.com>,
dblak...@aol.comnomailoi (who cares who I am) wrote:
> >Bob, we love Denis, despite his Kato feelings (;-))
> >He can't help it, but we understand. Now if they come
> >out with something in ACL (I think that is his road),
> >boy, won't the braincells in Columbus really be stewing
> >as to what to do.
>
> Man, now you really got my blood boiling. The acl, gag me. Man, try
this one,
> the Seaboard Air Line. Kato has indeed done some stuff for the
Seaboard over
> the years. Their outstanding NW2 was done in SAL paint. Got a few of
those,
> love them. Lets see, ACF, sort of, covered hoppers, and then the
RSC2's, what
> dogs. Way too many things wrong with those units for a 100.00 +
engine.
> However, I do have a few of those as well. See, I am not a Kato
hater, just
> don't think that I will be buying any more Kato products unless they
get their
> stuff together.
>
> Denis F. Blake
> Columbus, Ohio
> TTHOTS
>
--
rathburne
who cares who I am
>
Nah, its a brain injury.
Joe Brant
Dang! Denis,
You're being a little rough on those of us who grew up in ACL territory
aren't you? I thought you were part of the ACL/SAL Historical Society.
Who's a good contact to ask about ACL questions?
Joe Brant
ls...@my-deja.com
standards that the rest would do well to copy. They are. I believe,
the exception rather than the rule. What has characterised British
outline models has been lousy motors, poor pickups, no flywheels and
lack of weight. Bachmann are addressing the running characteristics
with a fair degree of success. They look good as well.
Regards Steve
Worcestershire
England
Curt Mc
>
> Dang! Denis,
>
> You're being a little rough on those of us who grew up in ACL territory
> aren't you? I thought you were part of the ACL/SAL Historical Society.
> Who's a good contact to ask about ACL questions?
>
> Joe Brant
Knee surgeon?
Fred Dabney
> hater, just
> > don't think that I will be buying any more Kato products unless they
> get their
> > stuff together.
> >
> > Denis F. Blake
You know, one time I got all my, uhh, stuff together, and I couldn't
move it.
Fred D.
john a dalton
>I became interested in American outline initially because I was seduced
>by the superb running qualities of even the cheaper end of the market
>compared with the stuff produced for the British market. All wheel
>drive & pickup with twin flywheels is unheard of off the shelf back
>here. My first American loco was an Athearn SD40-2 which cost me £28
>compared to £40-50 or even more for a Hornby. It crept over my son’s
>Peco Setrack without any hesitation. From then on I was hooked!
>
>Regards Steve
>Worcestershire
>England.
.....Steve....we love your sauce....use it all the time.... :))
....big john.... :))
Terry Smith
Joe Brant wrote:
> who cares who I am wrote:
>
> > >I think ACL is a sports injury....?
> > >
> >
> > Nah, its a brain injury.
> >
> > Denis F. Blake
> > Columbus, Ohio
> > TTHOTS
>
Mark D
note that the correct spelling is phfeaurt.
Sorry...
Mark
john a dalton
Bill Hoshiko
john a dalton wrote:
> ....count me out of the "limited edition" foo-fra....i'll just run my
> meager railroad (without handrails) around and around, and if one
> breaks down, i'll just buy another one just like it,...and it might be
> custom painted and detailed, too....but it will be the custom labor
> i'm buying, not the "limited quantity" of the engine.... :))
>
> ....big john.... :))
BJ
I finally figured you out.
You read that old slogan on the Model Railroader Magazines that said
"Model Railroading is Fun" and you took it to heart.
Shame on you.
Bill ((o:>
El Toro (no not the Marine base. Just the town that had it's name
changed because the people who really matter, felt that they could not
live in a city call - The Bull.
john a dalton
....you got it, Bill !!!.... "Model Railroading is Fun"..... :))
....then there's Bullhead City, Arizona, across the river from
Laughlin, Nevada....they don't change the name because that's where
the airport is.... :))
....big john.... :))
John A. Zelinsky
Be my guest! Fed up with limited runs, period!
Lindy9113
>Be my guest! Fed up with limited runs, period!
>
>
KATO new SD-40-2's $139.00
Now take an Athearn. Pick out all the detail parts, even put in a new motor.
Even replace the fans and still you won't come anywhere near the price tag of
the KATO.
They are beyond my reach and my desire. You all do what you want. I'll buy
Athearn, save money and keep jobs in America.
Dave
in Kansas
Ifototrain
we have them for $104.98, adn have seen them for $99.98 already
John
who cares who I am
Talk about an item showing it's true market value. When was the last time a
Kato product was available for -40.00 it suggested retail price one week after
arrival in the USofA? Gee, these units are in high demand, NOT. I predict
that there will be an ample supply of these things on shop shelves for some
time to come. This would not have happened a few years with any Kato product.
Man, how times have changed.
Dieter Zakas
>
> Return it to your dealer or to Kato for a full refund.
> There's no need to pay $120 for a model with this sort
> of design and manufacturing flaws. Other manufacturers
> do that for $40 or less. Returns are the best way of
> getting Kato's attention and of increasing the chances
> that they won't repeat these mistakes.
That's provided Kato pays attention and wonders why.
BTW, let me clue you into a side of retail you may not be aware of where
returns are concerned.
GENERALLY speaking, if you return an item to a retailer (and not just
hobbyshops), IF that return is in salable condition, it will likely find
its way back to the shelf. Illegal? No. Dishonest? Maybe. Common
business practice? Yep.
Now, consider that when the merchant returns product to the vendor, the
retailer will recoup only the money HE paid to buy the item in the first
place. Let me give you an example.
Suppose you buy something at $100, it doesn't meet your satisfaction for
whatever reason, and you return it for a refund. Suppose the dealer cost
was $95. His credit from the vendor is...$95, not counting any fees
imposed on him. In the meantime, he's out a C-note. A high number of
returns erodes his bottom line, which explains why he'll encourage an
exchange.
Now, getting back to the salability aspect...
As I mentioned, if the returned item is in presentable condition, it
will *likely* be returned to the shelf. If, OTOH, there is something
about the product that would render it defective, then it would likely
go back to the vendor. ("Defect" generally means something that impairs
the operation or use of a product in a manner not intended as designed.
The incorrectly-spaced sideframe holes on the Kato SD40-2 are a cosmetic
flaw and not something that affects the operation of the locomotive.) By
the same token, if you buy a model, make some changes to it and then
decide to return it, you're out of luck because the item is no longer in
the same condition ou bought it.
That's why, if everybody in this thread were to return their Kato
SD40-2s tomorrow, Kato may not "see the error of their ways." You can
certainly return the item to the store, but bring the matter to Kato as
well in a letter explaining why: "I returned your SD40-2 because...."
That ought to get their attention; better yet, return the item directly
to Kato for a refund, stating why. (You can do this with software
companies, BTW). Maybe then they'll catch on.
Dieter
JOHN J. OLSON & DEBBIE NIESS
not? Putting a retail price on an item anymore is a joke. People aren't
going to pay it and Retailers aren't going to get it! With the Internet and
all the Mail Order Discounters now flooding the market with cheap prices- I
think all retailers are in the same boat! Move'em in, Move'em out and Move
on to the next one and hope we can at least recover our costs. If we make a
profit- it's a bonus! It's all a numbers game anymore- sometimes I come out
OK and sometimes I bite the big one. Getting rich is totally out of the
realm of possibility but as long as I can keep my head above water and as
long as I love this hobby- like I do- I will continue on. It is a buyer's
market and with all the neat things coming down the pike- every day is a new
adventure. John
----------
In article <20000326043213...@ng-fz1.aol.com>,
dblak...@aol.comnomailoi (who cares who I am) wrote:
who cares who I am
>not? Putting a retail price on an item anymore is a joke. People aren't
>going to pay it and Retailers aren't going to get it! With the Internet and
>all the Mail Order Discounters now flooding the market with cheap prices- I
>think all retailers are in the same boat! Move'em in, Move'em out and Move
>on to the next one and hope we can at least recover our costs. If we make a
>profit- it's a bonus! It's all a numbers game anymore- sometimes I come out
>OK and sometimes I bite the big one. Getting rich is totally out of the
>realm of possibility but as long as I can keep my head above water and as
>long as I love this hobby- like I do- I will continue on. It is a buyer's
>market and with all the neat things coming down the pike- every day is a new
>adventure.
John
I agree completely. However, to see a Kato engine discounted at a storefront
shop some 40.00 after just one week is just about unheard of. Sure, some shops
have specials when the units first come out. Those only last a few days. My
local shop, The Trainstation, takes preorders on new stuff and folks who take
advantage of those offers get the item and a pretty substantial discount over
the suggested retail price.
I think that Kato's products have lost a lot of their luster to those who are
"serious" model railroaders. They prefer the offerings from P2K, Atlas,
Stewart and Athearn. I can't say that I blame them either.
Curt Mc
remember MANY dealers at the Timonium shows who had the $115 retail
units for $75, and then one show in Harrisburg PA in 1994, where 3
different dealers had them for $60 and one for $50 - and none of them
sold out that day!...
Times change... Those "I can't sell them" Kato SD40s are quite a bit
harder to find these days at ANY price... Will the Kato HO BN SD40-2s
still be $70 in 2006? Can't say yet, but we'll see... only time will
tell...
Note: Athearn has announced the revised SD40-2 in the BN "whiteface
pinstripe" paint scheme - a nicer (but rarer) paint scheme that some BN
fans may not want as much as the standard BN scheme... and the list
price is now "TBA" instead of the originally announced $59.50...
And even with all the incorrect details, the Kato "snoot"s have all but
disappeared from the distributors already...
- Curt Mc
JOHN J. OLSON & DEBBIE NIESS
and start 'hard wiring' the motors again. Once again- I have already
received new 'Snoots' in the store- that wouldn't run because the motor
leads needed to be bent over the circuit board so electrical contact could
be made! Kato has taken their 'N' scale contact circuitry and adapted it to
HO. It works fine in 'N' but obviously doesn't in HO. Whats next? Split
frames holding the motor in place and pins holding the trucks on through the
main spur gears? The bullet-proof Kato drives that were designed for
Stewart's 'F' units, Atlas' Alco line of locomotives and Kato's GP-35's and
SD-40's are still the benchmark of today! Even Kato can't match it!!!! I am
used to receiving Athearn locomotives in boxes that someone must have used
for field-goal practice- as the motors are completely loose from the frames,
but a Kato locomotive that needs work right out of the box? That's
criminal!!! They need to go back to the four hole motor mounts and hard
wiring. I have sold a ton of the HM5 motors/flywheel/mounts that Kato used
to produce- for re-motoring Athearn and RPP chassis'- as they drop right in.
John
----------
In article <20000326131214...@ng-bk1.aol.com>,
dblak...@aol.comnomailoi (who cares who I am) wrote:
who cares who I am
>disappeared from the distributors already...
The fact that they have disappeared from the distributors inventory say nothing
about the overall sales of these units once they hit the hobbyshops. I bet
that there will be still be a good many of them sitting on the shops shelves
for some time to come.
Denis F. Blake
Columbus, Ohio
TTHOTS
Ifototrain
>arrival in the USofA?
Well to be honest, not sure where you got that the engine retail is $149.00 our
distributer has them for $129.98 retail..Its our store habit to discount ALL
engines including KATO %20 of the retail price, and all other itmes over $5 are
discounted %10.
John Binford
Ifototrain
Unfortunetly it appears to me that some on here don't understand this.
>Getting rich is totally out of the
>realm of possibility but as long as I can keep my head above water and as
>long as I love this hobby- like I do- I will continue on.
HERE HERE!!
john binford
BondoBill1
No, you do need a "list price" it makes the playing field somewhat level. As a
manufacturer you need a dollar figure to set so you can make a profit. Since
the old days of model railroading, distributors were entitled to buy from
manufacturers at 50/10 off list, stores were allowed to buy from manufacturers
at 40% off of retail.
While the discounting now is a given, back in the 70's if a store gave 20% off
he stood to either loose his shirt, or make big money based on volume.
I am not sure how many ideas are floating around about bigger buyers get a
better deal.It really is not the case, there still is a pecking order. If
manufacturers start selling to stores or big volume stores at the same discount
they offer distributors they stand a very good chance of getting hurt.
Case in point would be Magnuson Models back in the 70's. They sold product to
Hobbies For Men at the same price they sold to Walthers plus alittle more off
the
top, what happpened, the stores stopped buying Magnuson Models products. Why
would they want to pay the same price the public could pay for the same
product. Distributors just erased their phone number from their Rollidex.
If you are a retailer and can keep volume going, or if your a part timer
selling out the back of your Explorer, the new therory is to "split the
difference. Subtract the dealer cost from the "retail" price, divide by two,
add to dealer cost, and now you have street price. ( $100 list, $60 dollar
cost = $40/2, makes selling price $80 )
If you go lower you should pray that you can keep your sales volume up to give
you some money to eat.
DHENK
>Note: Athearn has announced the revised SD40-2 in the BN "whiteface
>pinstripe" paint scheme - a nicer (but rarer) paint scheme that some BN
>fans may not want as much as the standard BN scheme... and the list
>price is now "TBA" instead of the originally announced $59.50...
For the record I'm still showing $56.50 on our backordered stock (no it's not
Walthers although they show same price <G>). That's three different
distributors with vendor supplied computer databases (updated daily). No TBA's
showing up for me in our shop.
Regards,
Dave Henk
Jacksonville, FL
who cares who I am
>our
>distributer has them for $129.98 retail..Its our store habit to discount ALL
>engines including KATO %20 of the retail price, and all other itmes over $5
>are
>discounted %10.
I got that from an earlier post in this thread.
Sounds to me like your customers are paying over $100.00 for an engine that
MIGHT run. Is that such a deal? Not in my book. They are paying over $100.00
for an engine that has little detail and probably has crappy painting and
decorating as well. However, I don't know if they have improved the Snoots
versus the 40-2's that they did a short time ago. Who knows, they may be
pretty good but I would not bet the house on it.
Lindy9113
From what a friend of mine from Japan told me, the American market is really
more of an afterthought for KATO. Apparently the primary business is Japanese
trains and they come out with new products every month or two.
If you like Kato then buy KATO, but thankfully at least in HO there are other
alternatives, and thankfully one or two of them are still made in the USA!.
Dave
in Kansas
Paul Tackowiak
with the differences between the two economies ove the last 5
years then Kato is being run by some pretty stupid people.
Paul Tackowiak
Paul Tackowiak
DHENK
(BondoBill1) writes:
Well said!
Dave Henk
Jacksonville, FL