Why is a frog called a Frog?

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Ditch

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Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
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Just curious....


-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed or North American*

Lungshot1

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Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
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>Why is a frog called a Frog?

Because it allows the wheels to "jump" from one set of track of rails to a
divergent route.

ED

Demetre Argiro

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Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
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On 23 Aug 2000 08:07:14 GMT, gove...@aol.compost (Ditch) wrote:

>Just curious....

Because it looks like a frog jumping when viewed straight on from the top. Frogs
are built up and incorporated into the turnout as it is built such that when a
frog is standing alone. . . . . . . . . . . .refer to sentence beginning. . . . .

It has nothing whatever to do with "jumping" from one track to another.

Don & Terri

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Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
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This is just a guess. A switch frog is wedge shaped and if you look down at a frog frog it has the same shape. Or maybe
because the first switches were held together by Ribbits. <G>

Donnie Gene

"Before there was a high tech, there had to be a low tech" -- James Christensen

On 23 Aug 2000 08:07:14 GMT, gove...@aol.compost (Ditch) wrote:

>Just curious....
>
>

Wolf Kirchmeir

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Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:42:33 -0400, Don & Terri wrote:

=>
=> This is just a guess. A switch frog is wedge shaped and if you look down at a frog frog it has the same shape. Or maybe
=>because the first switches were held together by Ribbits. <G>
=>
=>Donnie Gene
=>
=>"Before there was a high tech, there had to be a low tech" -- James Christensen
=>

Actually, it's called a frog because it resembles the underside of a horse's
hoof. That V-shaped area on the hoof is called a frog. Why _that_ is called a
frog, I don't know. Maybe a horse fancier can tell us. After all, this group
is about _iron_ horses. :-)


Best wishes,

Wolf Kirchmeir -- wol...@onlink.net
Blind River , Ontario

*******************************************************
Imagination is more important than reason.
(Albert Einstein)
*******************************************************

Access Systems

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Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
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In rec.models.railroad Don & Terri <heli...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

: This is just a guess. A switch frog is wedge shaped and if you look down at a frog frog it has the same shape. Or maybe
: because the first switches were held together by Ribbits. <G>

and if you split it your train would "Croak"

Bob

dgross

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Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
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Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:

Were they Roman Charriott Horses?????????????
How wide were their ..... hooves??????

Couldn't resist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Roger T. and Heather B.

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Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00
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Why is it called a "frog"? I don't know but I thought the 'correct' term
for it was "crossing".

Cheers
Roger T.


Sean S.

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Aug 23, 2000, 9:29:35 PM8/23/00
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Because a train going over a frog sounds exactly like a Roman war chariot
running over the amphibian of the same name...

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Ditch

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Aug 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/24/00
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>because the first switches were held together by Ribbits. <G>
>> =>
>> =>Donnie Gene

*Groan!* :-)

Nelson Kennedy

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Aug 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/24/00
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And the frog in the horses hoof is so named because if you got run down by a
horse and got stomped on by the hoof you would croak.

--
Nelson Kennedy,
Christchurch, New Zealand.
0 gauge NZR trains & Espee H0 at http://downunder.railfan.net
Products for 0 gauge NZR (close to 1:32) at http://ninemill.railfan.net
Wolf Kirchmeir <grey...@onlink.net> wrote in message
news:jbysxvebayvaxarg...@news.onlink.net...


> On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:42:33 -0400, Don & Terri wrote:
>
> =>
> => This is just a guess. A switch frog is wedge shaped and if you look
down at a frog frog it has the same shape. Or maybe

> =>because the first switches were held together by Ribbits. <G>
> =>
> =>Donnie Gene

Wolf Kirchmeir

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Aug 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/24/00
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:13:44 -0700, Roger T. and Heather B. wrote:

=>Why is it called a "frog"? I don't know but I thought the 'correct' term
=>for it was "crossing".
=>
=>Cheers
=>Roger T.

That's Brit usage -- you know, the people who call ties sleepers...

JimAllbery

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Aug 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/24/00
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In article <39a3d324....@news.mindspring.com>,

argi...@mindspring.com (Demetre Argiro) wrote:
> On 23 Aug 2000 08:07:14 GMT, gove...@aol.compost
> (Ditch) wrote:
> >Just curious....
> Because it looks like a frog jumping when viewed
> straight on from the top. Frogs
> are built up and incorporated into the turnout as it
> is built such that when a
> frog is standing alone. . . . . . . . . . . .refer to
> sentence beginning. . . . .
> It has nothing whatever to do with "jumping" from one
> track to another.

Actually, "frog" comes from the Old High German "frosk"
which in turn was derived from the pre-12th century Sanskrit
verb "pravate" which means "he jumps up" (at least according
to Webster's). So if the suggestion above is correct, I
guess it *does* have something to do with jumping.

I don't know about the elastic, v-shaped part of a horse's
hoof-- perhaps someone thought it was what made a horse able
to jump. The "frog" that is part of a violin bow remains a
mystery as well.


* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

E&M

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Aug 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/24/00
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Not just Brits, but Canadains too. A switcher was often refered to as a
shunter, ties = sleepers, frog= crossing etc.......

Cheers,
Ewen


"Wolf Kirchmeir" <grey...@onlink.net> wrote in message
news:jbysxvebayvaxarg...@news.onlink.net...

D Wetmore

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Aug 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/24/00
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A switch frog is called a frog because it is shaped like the central part of a
horse's hoof that is known as the frog. It is wedge shaped with a groove on
either side, just like the flangeways in a switch.

Here is a prototype (horse) photo:
http://www.horseshoes.com/anatomy/freeman/gallery/hoofstructurephoto.htm

and diagram:
http://www.horseshoes.com/anatomy/freeman/gallery/hoofstructurediagram.htm

Just don't ask me why they call it a frog on a horse!

Don Wetmore
dwet...@radiks.net


Ditch wrote:

> Just curious....

Ditch

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Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00
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>Just don't ask me why they call it a frog on a horse!
>
>Don Wetmore
>dwet...@radiks.net
>
>
>Ditch wrote:
>
>> Just curious....
>>
>> -John
>> *You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed or North
>American*
>
>
>
>
>

>Just don't ask me why they call it a frog on a horse!
>
>Don Wetmore
>dwet...@radiks.net
>
>

Before I scrolled down, that question was on my mind! :)

Wolf Kirchmeir

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Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00
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On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:44:34 -0300, E&M wrote:

=>Not just Brits, but Canadains too. A switcher was often refered to as a
=>shunter, ties = sleepers, frog= crossing etc.......
=>
=>Cheers,
=>Ewen

Really? Where? I've never heard anything other than North American usage
here.

Could be that you've consulted a Brit-writtten book about Canadian RRs. I've
a couple of such books, and have dipped into them - they use Brit terms.

=>"Wolf Kirchmeir" <grey...@onlink.net> wrote in message
=>news:jbysxvebayvaxarg...@news.onlink.net...


=>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:13:44 -0700, Roger T. and Heather B. wrote:
=>>

=>> =>Why is it called a "frog"? I don't know but I thought the 'correct'
=>term
=>> =>for it was "crossing".
=>> =>
=>> =>Cheers
=>> =>Roger T.
=>>
=>> That's Brit usage -- you know, the people who call ties sleepers...

Jim Holland

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Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00
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Greetings!

From *Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English
Language Unabridged* 1967, it seems that the languages from which the
English word *frog* is taken literally means *jumping, hopping.*
While it is true that there is such a *part* on a horse, I would really
wonder if that is where the railway usage came from.
Besides "any of various smooth-skinned web-footed tailess agile leaping
amphibians" and the horse-hoof part, a *frog* is also a device attached
to a belt for holding a weapon or tool; a front fastening for a garment;
a shallow place for mortar in the upper face of a brick; the frame or
block to which the share, moldboard, landside, or beam of a plow are
secured; the nut of a violin bow; junction of two branches of a flume;
etc.; etc.; etc.

I would *assume* that the use of *frog* in railway track (and trolley
pole overhead) came about from the very initial definition - the wheel
is jumping over another rail - but fortunately, the *frog* has been
designed to allow that jump to be very smooth!

D Wetmore wrote:

> A switch frog is called a frog because it is shaped like the central part of a
> horse's hoof that is known as the frog. It is wedge shaped with a groove on
> either side, just like the flangeways in a switch.

> and diagram:
> http://www.horseshoes.com/anatomy/freeman/gallery/hoofstructurediagram.htm

> Just don't ask me why they call it a frog on a horse!

> Don Wetmore
> dwet...@radiks.net

James B. Holland

Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
To e-mail privately, please click here: mailto:pgh...@pacbell.net
N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; http://www.mcs.net:80/~weyand/nmra/

Dick Ganderton

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Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00
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"Frog" is an American term - also used by some unenlightened British
modellers - for that part of a turnout properly called the "Common
Crossing". This is made up of four rails - one point, one splice and two
wing rails. The point and splice rails are bolted together to form the
"Vee".

Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
>
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:13:44 -0700, Roger T. and Heather B. wrote:
>

> =>Why is it called a "frog"? I don't know but I thought the 'correct' term


> =>for it was "crossing".
> =>

> =>Cheers
> =>Roger T.

Jon Miller

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Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00
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Answer to a trivia question which appeared in the latest issue of the
NMRA Bulletin.
The other two inventions that George Westinghouse contributed to
railroading. Frogs for switches (turnouts) and re-railing frogs! If George
invented it he probably named it!

Jon Miller

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Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00
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Just quoting the magazine as I received it today. Is interesting that
being the NMRA they would have checked the answer closer. But then it is a
long time ago. Attempted to do a search on the web site but it only goes
back to 1976.
It is possible he had a patent on a type of frog and not sure how that
would have been handled between UK and US at that time in history.


E&M

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Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00
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No not at all. Grew up in PEI. Railwaying part of my family for
generations. Even one of my cousins was that last conductor on the very last
train before the line shut down tin 1989. They called ties sleepers or
ties, switchers were shunters or switchers that went out shunting, etc....
It was not some book I read. Maybe the strong British influence. The line
was first built in colonial days and the first engines were British as in
many other parts of the country, but were found to be too light and later
replaced by American 4-4-0s.

Cheers,
Ewen


Wolf Kirchmeir" <grey...@onlink.net> wrote in message

news:jbysxvebayvaxarg...@news.onlink.net...


> On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:44:34 -0300, E&M wrote:
>
> =>Not just Brits, but Canadains too. A switcher was often refered to as a
> =>shunter, ties = sleepers, frog= crossing etc.......
> =>
> =>Cheers,
> =>Ewen
>
> Really? Where? I've never heard anything other than North American usage
> here.
>
> Could be that you've consulted a Brit-writtten book about Canadian RRs.
I've
> a couple of such books, and have dipped into them - they use Brit terms.
>
> =>"Wolf Kirchmeir" <grey...@onlink.net> wrote in message
> =>news:jbysxvebayvaxarg...@news.onlink.net...

> =>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:13:44 -0700, Roger T. and Heather B. wrote:
> =>>

> =>> =>Why is it called a "frog"? I don't know but I thought the
'correct'
> =>term
> =>> =>for it was "crossing".
> =>> =>


> =>> =>Cheers
> =>> =>Roger T.
> =>>

> =>> That's Brit usage -- you know, the people who call ties sleepers...

D Wetmore

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Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00
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Jim -

If you have any doubts about the origin, go to a local stable and ask to see the
bottom of a horse's hoof. Once you see the frog on a horse, there will be no doubt
in your mind that it was the origin of the railroad term. I should know. We own two
horses, and I clean their hooves on a regular basis. To do this requires a tool
called a hoof pick. It has a narrow head in order to clean out the "flangeways" of
the hoof (actually called bars), which are shaped exactly like the flangeways in a
switch frog. If you stop and think about it, it really makes a lot of sense. Back in
the 1820's-30's when railroads came on the scene, most people were very familiar
with horses as a necessity of day to day living. When they saw a railroad switch
they would have made an immediate assocation with the similar part on a horse.

If you have any remaining doubt check out the following: Once again look at the hoof
diagram and notice that the wide part at the back of the frog is referred to as the
heel. Then crack open your dictionary again and see that in railroad terminology the
end of a frog farthest from the switch (the wide part) is also known as the heel.
Coincidence? I think not.

Jumping amphibians (or wheels) had nothing to do with it.

Don Wetmore
dwet...@radiks.net
NMRA life member #2946

Jim Holland

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Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00
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Greetings!

I have no doubt about a horse having a frog in his hoof and the way
that it looks (cheese-whiz, I did quote that part from the dictionary!)
-- but that doesn't mean that the railroad frog was named for
*that-part* of the horse' anatomy!!::>) Could have been, but I would
like a little more evidence to back it up - and looking at the hoof of a
horse is not going to do it! Railroad journals with such information
would be far more conclusive.

One can also say that the 4-pieces of rail emanating from a railroad
frog look like an out-stretched amphibian-frog jumping and that is the
reason it is called a frog!

Martin Fouts

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Aug 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/25/00
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For what it is worth, the Oxford English Dictionary doesn't say how the word
'frog' came to be a railroading term, but it does cite the first use of the
term as being in a 1847 patent, suggesting that while Westinghouse may have
invented and patented some form of frog, he doesn't seem to have coined the
term.

I have found "The frog and switch" company on the net -- They don't make
frogs any more, but they claim they did for 100 years, so I sent an email to
them asking if they could shed any light on the origin of the term. I'll
report back if I hear from them.


TOM <tom...@home.com> wrote in message news:39A736AC...@home.com...

> Some of old George's inventions, etc.:
>
> http://www.westinghouse.com/corp/george.shtml
>
> Observing the problems and limitations of stopping trains by
> manually-operated brakes, he devised a method of using brakes
> actuated by compressed air. He turned this idea into the
> Westinghouse Air Brake Company, founded in 1869.
>
> Then with the vast increase in rail traffic and development of
> railroad yards, he recognized the need for better signaling devices
> and interlocking switches. He believed that great improvements
> could be made by using a combination of compressed air and
> electricity. He turned those ideas into the Union Switch and Signal
> Company, founded in 1881.
> --------------------------
>
> http://www.comptons.com/encyclopedia/ARTICLES/0175/01942272_A.html
>
> Westinghouse was born on Oct. 6, 1846, in Central Bridge,
> N.Y. The son of a manufacturer of farm implements, he explored
> the world of machines at an early age. After serving in both the
> Union Army and the Navy in the Civil War, Westinghouse
> received in 1865 his first patent--for a rotary steam engine. In that
> same year he invented a device for replacing derailed freight
> cars on their tracks.
>
> Railroad problems fascinated Westinghouse. Among his other
> inventions was a device called a frog that allowed wheels on one
> rail of a track to cross an intersecting rail. He bought various
> patents on railroad switches and signals and combined them
> with his own developments into an efficient switching system. He
> also devised safe methods to distribute natural gas.
>
> The air brake, his greatest invention, was patented in 1869, the
> same year he organized the Westinghouse Air Brake Company.
> With various design improvements, the air brake became widely
> accepted, and the Railroad Safety Appliance Act of 1893 made
> them compulsory on trains in the United States.
> ---------------------------------
>
> <><><> TOM <><><>
> Proud Member Of The Haggis
>

Christopher A. Lee

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Aug 25, 2000, 8:10:19 PM8/25/00
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In article <sqe0sc...@corp.supernews.com>,

Considering he was born in 1846 and they had been in use in
1838 to my knowledge (on the GWR although they weren't called
frogs), he muust have been a very precocious child.


Frank A. Rosenbaum

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Aug 25, 2000, 9:33:34 PM8/25/00
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Either that, or it looked like the junction of two branches of a flume, see
stars below.

--
Frank R.
Note New EMAIL address: faros...@mediaone.net
Jim Holland <pgh...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:39A6DA...@pacbell.net...


> Greetings!
>
> From *Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English
> Language Unabridged* 1967, it seems that the languages from which the
> English word *frog* is taken literally means *jumping, hopping.*
> While it is true that there is such a *part* on a horse, I would really
> wonder if that is where the railway usage came from.
> Besides "any of various smooth-skinned web-footed tailess agile leaping
> amphibians" and the horse-hoof part, a *frog* is also a device attached
> to a belt for holding a weapon or tool; a front fastening for a garment;
> a shallow place for mortar in the upper face of a brick; the frame or
> block to which the share, moldboard, landside, or beam of a plow are


> secured; the nut of a violin bow; junction of*** two branches of a
flume***;


> etc.; etc.; etc.
>
> I would *assume* that the use of *frog* in railway track (and trolley
> pole overhead) came about from the very initial definition - the wheel
> is jumping over another rail - but fortunately, the *frog* has been
> designed to allow that jump to be very smooth!
>
> D Wetmore wrote:
>
> > A switch frog is called a frog because it is shaped like the central
part of a
> > horse's hoof that is known as the frog. It is wedge shaped with a groove
on
> > either side, just like the flangeways in a switch.
>
> > Here is a prototype (horse) photo:
> > http://www.horseshoes.com/anatomy/freeman/gallery/hoofstructurephoto.htm
>
> > and diagram:
> >
http://www.horseshoes.com/anatomy/freeman/gallery/hoofstructurediagram.htm
>
> > Just don't ask me why they call it a frog on a horse!
>

> > Don Wetmore
> > dwet...@radiks.net

TOM

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Aug 25, 2000, 11:17:00 PM8/25/00
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Nelson Kennedy

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
to
> One can also say that the 4-pieces of rail emanating from a railroad
> frog look like an out-stretched amphibian-frog jumping and that is the
> reason it is called a frog!

Any thoughts as to why the sharp end of a turnout got lumbered with toe(d)?
:-)

All Green Ahead

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
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On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:26:16 +1200, "Nelson Kennedy"
<nel...@chch.planet.org.nz> wrote:

>>> One can also say that the 4-pieces of rail emanating from a railroad
>>> frog look like an out-stretched amphibian-frog jumping and that is the
>>> reason it is called a frog!
>>
>>Any thoughts as to why the sharp end of a turnout got lumbered with toe(d)?
>>:-)

At least they used bolts and not ribbits to fasten the frog to the
rail.

sam

Don Dellmann

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
to

D Wetmore <dwet...@radiks.net> wrote in message
news:39A73780...@radiks.net...
> Jim -


> If you have any remaining doubt check out the following: Once again look
at the hoof
> diagram and notice that the wide part at the back of the frog is referred
to as the
> heel. Then crack open your dictionary again and see that in railroad
terminology the
> end of a frog farthest from the switch (the wide part) is also known as
the heel.
> Coincidence? I think not.
>
> Jumping amphibians (or wheels) had nothing to do with it.
>

I'd forgotten about the heel. When you add that to the equation, I think
this is the most logical explanation yet. Add still another fact, since the
first tramways were horse drawn.....

"By George, I think he's got it"

Don


--
Don Dellmann
don.de...@prodigy.net
http://www.geocities.com/don_dellmann
--
moderator WisMode...@egroups.com

All Green Ahead

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
to
On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:05:52 -0500, "Don Dellmann"
<dom.de...@prodigy.net> wrote:

>
>>I'd forgotten about the heel. When you add that to the equation, I think
>>this is the most logical explanation yet. Add still another fact, since the
>>first tramways were horse drawn.....

Maybe they named the frog of a horse after the frog in the
turnout...

not.

sam

John W Nehrich

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
to
I took a course in history of technology where the professor claimed that
Whistler (the father of the painter who's portrait of his mother is
famous, so he must have been married to that woman in the rocking chair)
invented the whistle, hence the name. The guy (I think George Whistler)
was a big-wig on the Long Island railroad, but Ben Franklin wrote a story
about a penny whistle, so the term and concept must pre-date railroading.
For my two cents, a frog is so named because it looks like a
stretched out Kermit. The other terms people have come up with, like the
frog on a horse's hoof, suggest it was a common name applied to a V or
maybe a narrow X shape, kind of like "Jack" for different types of
machinery, or "crow" for a common bird (like "as a crow flies" or
"crowstep gable").
- John

TOM

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
to
Nelson Kennedy wrote:
>
> > One can also say that the 4-pieces of rail emanating from a railroad
> > frog look like an out-stretched amphibian-frog jumping and that is the
> > reason it is called a frog!
>
> Any thoughts as to why the sharp end of a turnout got lumbered with toe(d)?
> :-)
>
> --
> Nelson Kennedy,
> Christchurch, New Zealand.
> 0 gauge NZR trains & Espee H0 at http://downunder.railfan.net
> Products for 0 gauge NZR (close to 1:32) at http://ninemill.railfan.net

Switches also have wings, so now we have the response to the old adage,
"And if frogs had wings they could fly!"

Frogs, heels, toes, wings, it's beginning to sound like a menu!!! :>))

Then model railroaders come along and hit us with turnout instead
of switch!!! :>))

TOM

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
to
All Green Ahead wrote:
>
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:26:16 +1200, "Nelson Kennedy"
> <nel...@chch.planet.org.nz> wrote:
>
> >>> One can also say that the 4-pieces of rail emanating from a railroad
> >>> frog look like an out-stretched amphibian-frog jumping and that is the
> >>> reason it is called a frog!
> >>
> >>Any thoughts as to why the sharp end of a turnout got lumbered with toe(d)?
> >>:-)
>
> At least they used bolts and not ribbits to fasten the frog to the
> rail.
>
> sam

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! :>))

Speaking of frogs, does "All Green Ahead" refer to an upcoming Muppet
Movie starring Kermit and his family??? :>))

Lungshot1

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
to
>Speaking of frogs, does "All Green Ahead" refer to an upcoming Muppet
>Movie starring Kermit and his family??? :>))

No way....."all green ahead" is really a warning that a train has jumped the
points and crushed the frog!

ED

All Green Ahead

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
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On 26 Aug 2000 16:31:40 GMT, lung...@aol.com (Lungshot1) wrote:


>>No way....."all green ahead" is really a warning that a train has jumped the
>>points and crushed the frog!


Wart you guys please stop it.

sam

Wolf Kirchmeir

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
to
On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:10:40 -0300, E&M wrote:

[answering my guess that he read these Brit terms in a book about Canadian
rrs:}
=>No not at all. Grew up in PEI. Railwaying part of my family for
=>generations. Even one of my cousins was that last conductor on the very last
=>train before the line shut down tin 1989. They called ties sleepers or
=>ties, switchers were shunters or switchers that went out shunting, etc....
=>It was not some book I read. Maybe the strong British influence. The line
=>was first built in colonial days and the first engines were British as in
=>many other parts of the country, but were found to be too light and later
=>replaced by American 4-4-0s.


=>
=>Cheers,
=>Ewen

Thanks for this interstsing sidelight on Can., rr history. The fact that the
US terms were used elsewhere in Canada prob. ties in with the fact that most
the rrs there were built by Americans.

Still would like to know why CN called a caboose a van, though. Didn't PRRR
call them vans, too?

In ref to the frog question: OED's earliest recorded use in a patent
application indicates that the term was already in use, so we'll never know
for sure why a frog is called a frog. Me, I'll go with the horse's hoof
theory. I just like it better. :-)

Frank A. Rosenbaum

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
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--
Frank R.
Note New EMAIL address: faros...@mediaone.net

TOM <tom...@home.com> wrote in message news:39A7DF04...@home.com...


> All Green Ahead wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:26:16 +1200, "Nelson Kennedy"
> > <nel...@chch.planet.org.nz> wrote:
> >
> > >>> One can also say that the 4-pieces of rail emanating from a railroad
> > >>> frog look like an out-stretched amphibian-frog jumping and that is
the
> > >>> reason it is called a frog!
> > >>
> > >>Any thoughts as to why the sharp end of a turnout got lumbered with
toe(d)?
> > >>:-)
> >
> > At least they used bolts and not ribbits to fasten the frog to the
> > rail.
> >
> > sam
>
> Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! :>))
>

> Speaking of frogs, does "All Green Ahead" refer to an upcoming Muppet
> Movie starring Kermit and his family??? :>))
>

Yes, it does, at least that is what they toad me.

E&M

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
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Again "van" is a British term as is railway, both adopted by our lines
Canada. We call it a conductor's vand and Brits the guard's van.

Cheers,
Ewen
"Wolf Kirchmeir" <grey...@onlink.net> wrote in message
news:jbysxvebayvaxarg...@news.onlink.net...

Geert Marien

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
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Ah, that's easy ... because in the early days, electrical contact was bad at
that "point", and your engines "croaked" while passing over the "frog". :-)

Geert


TOM

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
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That particular part of the switch reminds me of the "Flux Capacitor"
used in the Back To The Future movies... :>))

Maybe they should have named it a "Frog Capacitor." ... :>))

TOM

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
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E&M wrote:
>
> Again "van" is a British term as is railway, both adopted by our lines
> Canada. We call it a conductor's van and Brits the guard's van.
>
> Cheers,
> Ewen

Van as in Vangard

Van as in Caravan

TOM

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
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Are you the Italian singer who did, "Three Frogs In The Fountain" ???
:>))

TOM

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
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"Frank A. Rosenbaum" wrote:
>
> --
> Frank R.
> Note New EMAIL address: faros...@mediaone.net
> TOM <tom...@home.com> wrote in message news:39A7DF04...@home.com...
> > All Green Ahead wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:26:16 +1200, "Nelson Kennedy"
> > > <nel...@chch.planet.org.nz> wrote:
> > >
> > > >>> One can also say that the 4-pieces of rail emanating from a railroad
> > > >>> frog look like an out-stretched amphibian-frog jumping and that is
> the
> > > >>> reason it is called a frog!
> > > >>
> > > >>Any thoughts as to why the sharp end of a turnout got lumbered with
> toe(d)?
> > > >>:-)
> > >
> > > At least they used bolts and not ribbits to fasten the frog to the
> > > rail.
> > >
> > > sam
> >
> > Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! :>))
> >
> > Speaking of frogs, does "All Green Ahead" refer to an upcoming Muppet
> > Movie starring Kermit and his family??? :>))
> >
>
> Yes, it does, at least that is what they toad me.
>
> > <><><> TOM <><><>
> > Proud Member Of The Haggis

Ah, I see you took the wizard's parking stall too!!! :>))

TOM

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
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I think this thread is about to croak as well... :>)

Remember, amphibians have feelings too!!! :>))

Duane gump

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Aug 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/26/00
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>Why is a frog called a Frog?

From the latin word for a item used to hang a sword on a belt, and which a
turnout frog resembles.

Aredeer

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Aug 26, 2000, 8:44:33 PM8/26/00
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So the answer is: we don't know.

Nelson Kennedy

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Aug 26, 2000, 11:24:33 PM8/26/00
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> >>Any thoughts as to why the sharp end of a turnout got lumbered with
toe(d)?
> >>:-)
>
> At least they used bolts and not ribbits to fasten the toes to the
> tie bar.
>
They did? I thought they used toe nails.

Nelson Kennedy

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Aug 26, 2000, 11:28:59 PM8/26/00
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TOM <tom...@home.com> wrote in message news:39A7DEA8...@home.com...

> Then model railroaders come along and hit us with turnout instead
> of switch!!! :>))

What's the point in that?

John W Nehrich

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Aug 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/27/00
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The Rutland called cabooses "vans" too. My dictionary said this was a
contraction of "caravan".

Probably horse hooves having a part called a frog goes back to when
railroads were just starting, and a rail frog might be named after both.
And we still haven't found out why the horse frog was so called.

And that raises another question. Imagine you are living in 1830. What
would you call this set of rails? If you had a stack of these, they might
look like a stack of stretched out frogs, drying in the sun, although did
they dry frogs back then?

In Victorian times, the English referred to the French as "frogs" from the
use of them for food (the amphibians, that is) - and it was an insult.

But if we want to question names, why a "gondola"? Obviously, from the
Venice boat idea, but why was that called a gondola. Or hopper? I think
there may be a corruption of hoop/hood.

And who was Murphy, whose name was used for a type of box car end? Or
Andrews, of freight car truck fame?

- John


TOM

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Aug 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/27/00
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Aredeer wrote:
>
> So the answer is: we don't know.

Exactly!!! :>))

A switch has a frog (PERIOD). How it got the name is an interesting
study, but not a matter of life or death...

Makes for fun reading, however...

TOM

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Aug 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/27/00
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Actually, they used troll nails... :>))

TOM

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Aug 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/27/00
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These troll-like one line answers are becoming a Hobbitt with some of
us... :>))

Just check here if you don't believe me:
http://www.mi.uib.no/~respl/tolkien/

"In a hole in the ground there lived a Hobbit".

TOM

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Aug 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/27/00
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Or from one of the stories here:
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/frog.html

Tom Madden

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Aug 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/27/00
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John W Nehrich wrote in message ...

[big snip]

>And who was Murphy, whose name was used for a type of box car end? Or
>Andrews, of freight car truck fame?


Murphy was also the inventor of a concoction of chopped cabbage and sour
cream. It was called "Murphy's Slaw".

IIRC Murphy roofs were called "Murphy patent roofs", so I presume someone
named Murphy held the patent on various car parts. I also don't ever recall
seeing Murphy and Andrews uncapitalized, which would indicate there were
real people behind the names.

Did Ethelred the Unready invent Viking roofs?

Tom Madden

Urologist: "We're using a smaller instrument for the biopsy this time."
Me: "I can tell."
Nurse: "That's his finger."


Michael Usoff

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Aug 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/28/00
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Might be as simple as looking like a frog!! :>)) Mike U.

TOM wrote:


>
> Aredeer wrote:
> >
> > So the answer is: we don't know.
>

> Exactly!!! :>))
>
> A switch has a frog (PERIOD). How it got the name is an interesting
> study, but not a matter of life or death...
>
> Makes for fun reading, however...
>

Demetre Argiro

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Aug 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/28/00
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:07:24 +0000, Michael Usoff <tra...@primenet.com> wrote:

>Might be as simple as looking like a frog!! :>)) Mike U.

Another poster in another unrelated message said:
> . . . . For once the
>Frogs were smart and didn't start production on the trains themselves. . . .

What does this mean? What are Frogs that build trains? I have a sneaking
suspicion that it may not be frogs at all but something else. This frog thing is
starting to look like haggis.
OH God! OOOPS! I said it. Oh No!
it's time for me to. . . . . . Split the Group

Frank A. Rosenbaum

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Aug 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/28/00
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--
Frank R.
Note New EMAIL address: faros...@mediaone.net

TOM <tom...@home.com> wrote in message news:39A84065...@home.com...


> "Frank A. Rosenbaum" wrote:
> >
> > --
> > Frank R.
> > Note New EMAIL address: faros...@mediaone.net

> > TOM <tom...@home.com> wrote in message

news:39A7DF04...@home.com...
> > > All Green Ahead wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:26:16 +1200, "Nelson Kennedy"
> > > > <nel...@chch.planet.org.nz> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >>> One can also say that the 4-pieces of rail emanating from a
railroad
> > > > >>> frog look like an out-stretched amphibian-frog jumping and that
is
> > the
> > > > >>> reason it is called a frog!
> > > > >>

> > > > >>Any thoughts as to why the sharp end of a turnout got lumbered
with
> > toe(d)?
> > > > >>:-)
> > > >

> > > > At least they used bolts and not ribbits to fasten the frog to the
> > > > rail.
> > > >
> > > > sam
> > >
> > > Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! :>))
> > >
> > > Speaking of frogs, does "All Green Ahead" refer to an upcoming Muppet
> > > Movie starring Kermit and his family??? :>))
> > >
> >
> > Yes, it does, at least that is what they toad me.
> >

> > > <><><> TOM <><><>
> > > Proud Member Of The Haggis
>

> Ah, I see you took the wizard's parking stall too!!! :>))
>

It took me a moment to figure your remark out, but I did.
I take the stall, but it is not all it is croaked up to be. Did you know he
had a small parking meter there too? It was on a short post as well, kind of
like a tad pole.

Michael Usoff

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Aug 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/28/00
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Toad you not to park there!! :>)) Mike U.

TOM wrote:


>
> "Frank A. Rosenbaum" wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > Yes, it does, at least that is what they toad me.
> > > >
> > > > > <><><> TOM <><><>
> > > > > Proud Member Of The Haggis
> > >
> > > Ah, I see you took the wizard's parking stall too!!! :>))
> > >
> > It took me a moment to figure your remark out, but I did.
> > I take the stall, but it is not all it is croaked up to be. Did you know he
> > had a small parking meter there too? It was on a short post as well, kind of
> > like a tad pole.
> >
> > > <><><> TOM <><><>
> > > Proud Member Of The Haggis
>

> "Violators will be toad."

TOM

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Aug 28, 2000, 11:30:59 PM8/28/00
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If it's any help, my kids used to play Frogger a lot... :>))

TOM

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Aug 28, 2000, 11:32:53 PM8/28/00
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TCol wrote:

>
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:43:32 GMT, argi...@mindspring.com (Demetre
> Argiro) wrote:
>
> >What does this mean? What are Frogs that build trains? I have a sneaking
> >suspicion that it may not be frogs at all but something else. This frog thing is
> >starting to look like haggis.
> >OH God! OOOPS! I said it. Oh No!
> >it's time for me to. . . . . . Split the Group
>
> Split the group? What a novel idea...:^) Hasn't been suggested for
> about 10 weeks so its time some relative newbie suggests it. Seems to
> happen every September anyway after school opens.
>
> We'll just have to dig out our canned retorts for reposting that must
> be at least 6 years old...
>
> Ray H.

However, if we split it, we must make sure it doesn't split any wider
than two Roman Chariot horses' arses... :>))

I'd gauge (gage, scale?) that to be about the right width... :>))

TOM

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Aug 28, 2000, 11:34:19 PM8/28/00