THE GP30 FAN MISTAKE IS DEAD... WHAT's NEXT?
Andy Harman
the diesel list this afternoon:
>Merry Christmas to fans of GP30s and their radiator fans!
>
>I just got off the phone with Larry Grubb of Life-Like. He informed me the
>fan spacing on their forthcoming GP30 has been corrected!!! Strike up the
>band!!!! Andy can now have a happy holiday!!!
>
>Larry says all the EMD general arrangment and painting diagrams show the
>wide spacing, but the assembly drawing (the large dimensioned drawing used
>out in the shop) shows the correct spacing. Since most model draftsmen
>don't get to see those large drawings, I think we can put some of the blame
>for this continuing error on EMD.
>
>BTW, if anybody on the list knows Matt McGill of the Conrail Tech & Hist
>Society, Larry wants to ask him a question or two about Conrail GP30s.
>
>D. Scott Chatfield
Thanks to Scott, Eddie Ryan, Dave Hussey, and Ron Sebastian for
helping to get this done... and especially to FRED DABNEY for being
the first person (in the world??) to ever notice the error or at least
point it out publicly.
And thanks to Larry Grubb and Life-Like for doing what it takes to get
it fixed. I saw the test shot in Chicago and it was wrong, so that
means it has been corrected in just the past few weeks. Great job
guys!
BTW, the shell that I saw in Chicago was exquisite. It's a bit
strange because the Bachmann shell has been the only GP30 for a long
time, and it was, at its intro in 1978, the best HO diesel shell out
there! It is no longer state of the art, but when you look at the P2K
shell you'll do a double take, at least if you have been staring at
the Bachmann shells for as long as I have. Since it's the same phase,
and since Bachmann's model was so well done to begin with, it's like
looking at an out of focus slide on the screen and then having
everything snap into focus. Or getting a new pair of glasses <g>. The
P2K shell is extremely sharp and straight, the most immediately
noticable thing being the cab is straight and fits right. The
Bachmann shell has deteriorated in this regard over the years. The
radiator is a 6-bar type that was common on many GP30's, but there was
also a 7-bar type. We haven't managed to really nail down which ones
had what, but the 7-bar *appears* to be very late production; most
phase I and phase II appear to have been built with the 6-bar.
The Bachmann GP30 was originally done by Kader for Lionel, using
drawings prepared by Jerry Moyers hence it's known as "the Moyers
GP30" in it's various incarnations. It has been sold by Lionel, in BN
colors only and bundled with a train set in time for Christmas of '78,
and then later became part of the Bachmann base line, virtually
unchanged except for the paint schemes. In both of those incarnations
it had what Richard Yaremko called a "Mickey Mouse Running Gear", a
term I've always thought very appropriate. One power truck with a
"pancake" motor designed originally for things like streetcars.
Bachmann still uses this motor in most of their base line diesels and
many of their steam engines too. Front Range Products offered a GP30
kit with their own cobbled up drive, including a can motor, their own
gearboxes, and perhaps the worst Blomberg sideframes ever done, at
least post-1960 <g>. Bev-Bel offered the undec shells (the only
source) for several years, and also made custom painted GP30's bundled
with Athearn GP35 drives.
Around 1990, Bachmann "upgraded" the GP30 to their Spectrum line, and
in doing so they added the missing fan hatch rivets but did not change
the fan spacing. They also did away with the molded on grabs, but
replaced them with something worse: oversize wire grabs hot-melted
into place, making it very difficult to replace them since they left
major craters when removed. The drive was a Spectrum series and done
from scratch... a big improvement over the pancake. 8-wheel drive,
flywheels, better sideframes. A bit rough running at times, it was
about the running quality of an average Athearn but much less durable.
The Life-Like Proto 2000 GP30 has been over a year in the works, and
it's the first new plastic GP30 in over 20 years. With the Proto 2000
drive mechanism and the typical attention to very crisp and clean
paint and lettering, it should be a big winner.
The P2K GP30 is a phase II, which means it has the extended cab on the
fireman's side. This was an option requested by UP on their second
order because the original cab design was cramped, and it caught on
and became the standard. Railfans have designated the extended cab
units as "Phase II" although EMD does not have any official phases or
designations for these changes. Phase II units represent about 2/3 of
the 900-odd GP30's built, and the greatest variety of roadnames.
Life-Like chose to do the phase II due to the greater roadname count
and the fact that very few railroads had *only* phase I GP30's. N&W's
hi-nose were all phase I, but they inherited 10 low-nose phase II from
Nickel Plate. Southern's hi-nose units were all phase II.
This is likely to be one of the most popular locomotives released this
decade, and that's saying a LOT, because there have been so many great
locos done in the 90's by P2K, Athearn, Atlas, Stewart, and Kato.
And the fan mistake is finally dead! Now everybody can copy
Life-Like's model and get it right <g>.
As the millenium winds down, what worlds are left to conquer?
Andy
-------------------------------------------
Please reply to aharman at hhcustom dot com
-------------------------------------------
S Sillato
: The P2K GP30 is a phase II, which means it has the extended cab on the
: fireman's side. This was an option requested by UP on their second
: order because the original cab design was cramped, and it caught on
: and became the standard. Railfans have designated the extended cab
: units as "Phase II" although EMD does not have any official phases or
: designations for these changes. Phase II units represent about 2/3 of
: the 900-odd GP30's built, and the greatest variety of roadnames.
: Life-Like chose to do the phase II due to the greater roadname count
: and the fact that very few railroads had *only* phase I GP30's.
Like the NYC.<frown>
: This is likely to be one of the most popular locomotives released this
: decade, and that's saying a LOT, because there have been so many great
: locos done in the 90's by P2K, Athearn, Atlas, Stewart, and Kato.
: And the fan mistake is finally dead! Now everybody can copy
: Life-Like's model and get it right <g>.
: As the millenium winds down, what worlds are left to conquer?
How about the Stewart C628's?
And how about SOME FREAKIN' ALCO ALLIGATORS!!!!!??????<g>
--
Steve Sillato NYC, LV, GBW & ALCo fan
Forty is the old age of youth, fifty the youth of old age.
CJ Brock
>
>Andy
The B units
John
---== http://www.newsfeeds.com - Largest Usenet Server In The World! ==---
---== http://www.newsfeeds.com - Largest Usenet Server In The World! ==---
Warren Kellogg
>The following is exerpted from a post made by D. Scott Chatfield to
>the diesel list this afternoon:
>
>>Merry Christmas to fans of GP30s and their radiator fans!
>>
>>I just got off the phone with Larry Grubb of Life-Like. He informed me the
>>fan spacing on their forthcoming GP30 has been corrected!!! Strike up the
>>band!!!! Andy can now have a happy holiday!!!
Andy, really, congratulations. I don't know if you realized it, but at times
you seemed despondent over this issue.
Be sure to send one to Fred...
Congratulations and thanks to both of you!
w
Mike Turner
better way of saying this...) for SRR and NW conversions will work with
the new shell?
Andrew Eakin
Mike Turner wrote in message <367919...@ieee.org>...
>Anyone have a clue how well the short high nose (there has to be a
>better way of saying this...) for SRR and NW conversions will work with
>the new shell?
Usually I've heard it "High short hood".
Andrew
Andy Harman
wrote:
>Anyone have a clue how well the short high nose (there has to be a
>better way of saying this...) for SRR and NW conversions will work with
>the new shell?
The conversion will be no easier or harder than with the Bachmann
shell. For either NW or SR you will have to modify the brow; for NW
you will have to convert cab/battery box to phase I.
C.L.Zeni
> And how about SOME FREAKIN' ALCO ALLIGATORS!!!!!??????<g>
Easy Steve, easy...Nurse Diesel? I think Steve needs another snort of
his medication...
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html
TOM
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
Mike Turner wrote:
>
Snips
> the short high nose (there has to be a
> better way of saying this...)
Snips
David R. Campbell
> As the millenium winds down, what worlds are left to conquer?
>
> Andy
>
The SD35 would be great but it's not likely to happen.
David Campbell
Norton, VA
Mike Turner
being right (not just fan spacing but other dimensions as well) ?
S Sillato
: S Sillato wrote:
:
: > And how about SOME FREAKIN' ALCO ALLIGATORS!!!!!??????<g>
: Easy Steve, easy...Nurse Diesel? I think Steve needs another snort of
: his medication...
: --
Medication??? How about a centipede for Mr. Zeni?
Fred
>
> Andy Harman wrote:
>
> > As the millenium winds down, what worlds are left to conquer?
> >
> > Andy
> >
>
You got the SD18, SD24 and SD35, that could all be offered by P2K, using
the SD chassis, I think they are the same (of course, with a different
fuel tank for the SD24 and SD35)
Andy Harman
wrote:
>OK, another GP30 question: how close are the O scale plastic GP30's to
>being right (not just fan spacing but other dimensions as well) ?
Who made an O-scale plastic GP30? I remember a GP35, and then there is
Weaver's GP38-1.5 which is a rolling illustration of poor research...
Mr. Sebastian has some parts to help it out a bit but I dunno if it's
possible to do a complete Cannon-type makeover on it just yet.
C.L.Zeni
>
> C.L.Zeni (Spiny_...@Hedge.hog) wrote:
> : S Sillato wrote:
> :
> : > And how about SOME FREAKIN' ALCO ALLIGATORS!!!!!??????<g>
>
> : Easy Steve, easy...Nurse Diesel? I think Steve needs another snort of
> : his medication...
> : --
>
> Medication??? How about a centipede for Mr. Zeni?
Depends on how it's administered...HEY! Get away from me with that
thing! Or at least cut the trip pins off the couplers...
C.L.Zeni
snippus profundus
Geez, they could do something radical and make a loco that folks are
paying thru the nose to get, an SD40...with right and left trucks to
boot.
Or Steve's 'gators...
Len Nieman
Andy Harman wrote in message <367838ac....@news2.one.net>...
<snip>
>As the millenium winds down, what worlds are left to conquer?
>
An accurate (Okay, at this point I'd even settle for close to accurate)
model of an FL-9 with the correct Flexicoil A-1-A rear truck and the
McGuiness NH colors!
Len Nieman
Head Rust Scraper
KL&B Eastern Lines RR Museum
will...@northernway.net
Spiny_...@Hedge.hog wrote:
> snippus profundus
> > As the millenium winds down, what worlds are left to conquer?
>
> paying thru the nose to get, an SD40...with right and left trucks to
> boot.
>
> Or Steve's 'gators...
> --
I have never been able to figure out why no manufacture (please not KATO) does
another decent SD40. It seems to me that they could sell tens of thousands of
these each year for at least the next 20 years.
Ryan Willobee
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
W. Gene States
> >
>
I would like to see some correct hood width U28B,U30B Units
maybe some Alco C415s with high and low cab options.
The U boats were the main power for Rock Island in the 70's and
I need a bunch of them.
Gene States
Fred Dabney
>>better way of saying this...) for SRR and NW conversions will work with
>>the new shell?
>
>The conversion will be no easier or harder than with the Bachmann
>shell. For either NW or SR you will have to modify the brow; for NW
>you will have to convert cab/battery box to phase I.
Don't ph1 and ph2 have different handrail stanchion arrangements?
Fred D.
Fred Dabney
>the SD chassis, I think they are the same (of course, with a different
>fuel tank for the SD24 and SD35)
There is a problem with any SD24 model. Which road's version?
Some deliveries had winterization hatches, some didn't. Some had three step
pilots, others 4. Some had high noses, some low. There's fan and radiator
grille differences. There are lots of other differences, some pretty
subtle. And, except for Santa Fe, I don't think any road had them from more
than one production batch, but Santa Fe's came in two major variants, and so
far as I could tell, the old Roco/Atlas model was of a version bought only
by CB&Q.
For the guy who wants it right, it would be a hassle. For the guy who
doesn't care, the Roco shell, or even the Tyco should serve, but no one
makes a frame that has the proper fuel tank. The Roco is a blob of Zamak,
bearing no resembence to anything ever seen on rails.
Fred Dabney, watching the action from BNSF MP 1112, El Paso sub.
Fred Dabney
>drawings prepared by Jerry Moyers hence it's known as "the Moyers
>GP30" in it's various incarnations. It has been sold by Lionel, in BN
>colors only and bundled with a train set in time for Christmas of '78,
I have some in the Santa Fe red/silver "war bonnet" scheme, and I think they
were Lionel. Kader, btw, became the owner of Bachmann many years ago.
I wonder how much of that generation of Lionel's HO production was by
Kader?. Who was the Canadian firm that did the U18B?
Bob Chupka
to the SD-35. With some minor changes(fuel tank) it covers the hole run. A
major change occurred in '66 with the introduction of the 645 and as a
result the 40's and up are different.
One would hope that Lifelike notices this and runs out the string as it
were. An excellent article appeared in Railroad Modeler on how to make an
SD-35 using the Proto Drive and two Rail Power GP-35 shells.
Fred wrote in message <367A268E...@spam.com>...
>David R. Campbell wrote:
>>
>> Andy Harman wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Andy
>> >
>>
>
Andy Harman
wrote:
>Don't ph1 and ph2 have different handrail stanchion arrangements?
Yes... I'm not sure at the moment if any of the others change position
but there is an extra stanchion immediately behind the cab on the
short-cab phase I's, and this is a handy trick to spot them if the
photo is angled such that you can't see the cab length. Looks like
GP30's will be a hot topic for the next few months.
Andy Harman
<Spiny_...@Hedge.hog> wrote:
>Geez, they could do something radical and make a loco that folks are
>paying thru the nose to get, an SD40...with right and left trucks to
>boot.
Well when I fantasize, the sky's the limit. How about a late SD40
with extended dynamics, hi-nose, and triple clasp hi-brakes?
Andy Harman
wrote:
>I have some in the Santa Fe red/silver "war bonnet" scheme, and I think they
>were Lionel. Kader, btw, became the owner of Bachmann many years ago.
I have seen the warbonnets in Bachmann boxes, but not in Lionel boxes,
but that doesn't really prove anything one way or the other. I don't
remember if the Lionel loco was ever sold separately at all. I had to
spend $52 for the trainset to get my first one; I remember grousing
about having to spend that kind of dough (in 1978 dollars, back when I
was earning about $6 an hour) for just a *shell*. But Yaremko's
article heartily endorsed the shell, and proved that the Athearn GP35
drive could be adapted. A few weeks later, I found a broken-open
Lionel set in K-Mart. The dept. manager for once was a reasonable
guy, and rather than deal with returning the partial set and figuring
it all out, he let me have the GP30 for 10 bucks! I stripped it using
UnPaint and promptly discovered the effect that stuff has on soft
plastic. The pilot snapped clean off when I sawed out the low nose,
but I shored it up and glued it back on. I hi-nosed it using the back
end of a scrapped Atlas SD35, and put it all together in the spring of
'79, complete with both legendary GP30 mistakes: the fan mistake and
the brow mistake, oblivious to both. I was aware of the extended cab,
but didn't think it was fixable with the skills and parts I had
available so I left it. At the time I completed the thing, it was by
far my best model to date. It's still one of the few that old that I
occasionally get out and show. It has the correct N&W split horn
(which the Challenger managed to get half right) and individual grabs,
N&W bell, and the original thick plastic handrails... one thing that
Bachmann did improve a bit in their Spectrum release. I used to look
at it and think someday I ought to put the new Athearn trucks under it
(has the metal ones) and replace the handrails, but now I just look at
it as a piece of history. Ironically I accumulated some of the GP30
shells but never built another one for myself... did a B&O and a C&O
which I gave to my brother a long time ago.
I attempted a Nickel Plate GP30 (would have been N&W 2900) and made
some of the mods to the nose and removed the dynamics, sometime in
1979. The shell then mysteriously vanished and I forgot about it,
until I moved from that apartment. Found it wedged behind me
workbench between the bench leg and the wall, the shell split down the
middle like a crab leg. I started to do another NKP unit using a
Spectrum undec... again did the bell and dynamic mods, but it sits
there unfinished... just too many problems with the Botchmann shell to
deal with. Even did a few minor mods to a Kato GP35 drive to fit it.
I subsequently planned to use that drive on my backdated phase I
high-nose, and even had the roofline of a Bachmann shell fitted to a
Kato GP35 body... amazingly the door pattern on the GP30 and GP35 seem
to be *identical* and that's pretty amazing. The GP35 and GP40 are
more likely to be confused at a glance, but contain virtually no
common sheet metal; the GP30 and GP35 are for all intents and purposes
the same design, one styled and one simplified.
The phase I conversion is not going to be any easier on the P2K model
than it was on the Bachmann, but the rest of the model will require a
lot less work and the end result will be much better. I still have a
gut feeling another GP30 is lurking out there somewhere, and it stands
a very good chance of being a phase I if it ever materializes. In the
mean time, we'll have a stupendous phase II model which covers a great
deal of ground... I can finally do up that 2909 and have "the one that
got away" in captivity <g>. And of course that Penn Central unit.
Charles F Seyferlich
Somebody (Wards, Penneys or ?) closed out Lionel GP30's at under $10.00
each years ago. I got about 25 & all were BN.
I painted a few for L&N, AT&SF, UP, etc. I had a small (5X14) layout at
the time and found that the engines with pancake motor powering a single
truck were powerful enough and were pretty quiet & smooth in operation.
I used a Heath-kit transister power pack most of time.
I got rid of all the ones I painted, along with most of my other MRR
stuff when I decided I had enough model railroading. I still have a few
& they might, if I can get interested, serve to try detailing tecniques
on. Being out of work (since 4/97) I have to watch my pennies.
I used, as I recall, Top-Job to strip the shells. Brake fluid did
strange things to the plastic.
PeterH5322
>>
I got about 25 & all were BN.
>>
BN seems to be the most popular or perhaps the only one available.
I bought a dozen or so shells for a buck a piece from a retailer ... just like
Henry Ford, "any color, just so it's green".
Caseycam2
>model of an FL-9 with the correct Flexicoil A-1-A rear truck and the
>McGuiness NH colors!
>
>Len Nieman
>Head Rust Scraper
>KL&B Eastern Lines RR Museum
>
>
varied short run decals) is working on an FL9 body & sideframe kit in resin.
The big hold up is currently how to overcome the frame problem.... using the
Athearn drive. We can't (currently) make our own frames, so any conversion kits
or bodys are being made to fit Athearn (or better) drives for easy use.
Keep an eye on our web page (listed below) and I'll try to keep the new stuff
updated.
For NH & NYS&W fans... we are well on our way into an NE6 (maybe NE5 too)
caboose kit
-->HO&N are both in the works<--
NHCS is also working on a SCALE LENGTH RDC in HO!!!
http://members.aol.com/Caseycam2/nhcs.html
Jeff Finch
>Possible Future Release: North Hawthorne Car Shops (makers of fine and widely
>varied short run decals) is working on an FL9 body & sideframe kit in resin.
Will the parts be available separately for those of us who just need
front flexicoil sideframes?
Jeff Finch:
Grew up in a D&H town, moved to NYC country,
and now relocated in NYNH&H and Boston & Albany country
*****To reply change brainboing to mindspring*****
JackN2MPU
>varied short run decals) is working on an FL9 body & sideframe kit in resin.
>Athearn drive. We can't (currently) make our own frames, so any conversion
>kits
>or bodys are being made to fit Athearn (or better) drives for easy use.
>Keep an eye on our web page (listed below) and I'll try to keep the new stuff
>updated.
>
>For NH & NYS&W fans... we are well on our way into an NE6 (maybe NE5 too)
>caboose kit
> -->HO&N are both in the works<--
Thank you a thousand times over! Am dying for decent NYNH&H stuff, particularly
FL9's. You've made a good Christmas one of the best I've had !
Jack
Modeling the NYC & NYNH&H in HO and CPRail & D&H in N
NRA & NRA-ILA
ARRL - N2MPU
Asa Worcester
To all FL-9 lovers,
The FL-9 is already available. It is made by Branford Hobbies in white
metal with an Athearn component drive. It has the *correct* 3 axle
Flexicoil truck on the rear and the *correct* 9' wheelbase 2-axle Flexicoil
truck on the front. It is one of the best looking white metal casting I've
seen. It has all of the 3rd rail electrical pick-up equipment in place,
Hancock air whistle, ATC box and the other underframe details. It was
designed with the cooperation of several members of the NHRHTA giving tips
and is therefore very accurate. The engine comes decorated and ready to
run. For price and delivery, contact:
Mark Castiglione
Branford Hobbies
609 Boston Post Road
Branford, CT 06405
(203) 488-9865
I have two of them and they are excellent locos.
Regards,
Asa
Len Nieman
Caseycam2 wrote in message <19981229194058...@ng142.aol.com>...
>>An accurate (Okay, at this point I'd even settle for close to accurate)
>>model of an FL-9 with the correct Flexicoil A-1-A rear truck and the
>>McGuiness NH colors!
>>
>>Len Nieman
>>
widely
>varied short run decals) is working on an FL9 body & sideframe kit in
resin.
>The big hold up is currently how to overcome the frame problem.... using
the
>Athearn drive. We can't (currently) make our own frames, so any conversion
kits
>or bodys are being made to fit Athearn (or better) drives for easy use.
>Keep an eye on our web page (listed below) and I'll try to keep the new
stuff
>updated.
>
>For NH & NYS&W fans... we are well on our way into an NE6 (maybe NE5 too)
>caboose kit
> -->HO&N are both in the works<--
>
In a word, "YAAAAAAHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEE!!!!!".
Thank you, thank you,
Len Nieman
John Sheridan
>
>
> For NH & NYS&W fans... we are well on our way into an NE6 (maybe NE5 too)
> caboose kit
> -->HO&N are both in the works<--
>
> NHCS is also working on a SCALE LENGTH RDC in HO!!!
>
> http://members.aol.com/Caseycam2/nhcs.html
Good thing I did add the FL-9 decals to our NH McGinnis set after
all.........
Let me know when the RDCs are near completion, I will be more inclined
to finish the NH RDC set.
And yes, the NH Caboose set will be out in a couple of months.......
--
John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals
http://www.microscale.com
If I'm talking Decals, then i'm talking for Microscale,
Otherwise I am speaking for myself.
What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg
I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! http://www.cauce.org
Caseycam2
About the Branford Hobbies FL9:
NHCS had NO IDEA it was available! We are already quite a bit into the
project, and don't want to give up on it. I also don't want to step on
Branfords toes, especially if they did a good job. Are there any variations WE
should make our model have that is different from the Branford model? Ours will
obviously be Resin.. not metal. This is good for those who can't stand drilling
metal shells!! Please get back to me by E-mail with suggestions.
The parts will be available as individual pieces as well as in kit form. (Good
for those who don't want to strip a Branford FL9 to make their own variations)
as all our kits will be.
Any direct inquirys can be sent to Case...@aol.com
Thanks!!
Bill
Len Nieman
Asa Worcester wrote in message ...
>
>To all FL-9 lovers,
> The FL-9 is already available. It is made by Branford Hobbies in white
>metal with an Athearn component drive. It has the *correct* 3 axle
>Flexicoil truck on the rear and the *correct* 9' wheelbase 2-axle Flexicoil
>truck on the front. It is one of the best looking white metal casting I've
>seen. It has all of the 3rd rail electrical pick-up equipment in place,
>Hancock air whistle, ATC box and the other underframe details. It was
>designed with the cooperation of several members of the NHRHTA giving tips
>and is therefore very accurate. The engine comes decorated and ready to
>run. For price and delivery, contact:
>Mark Castiglione
>Branford Hobbies
>609 Boston Post Road
>Branford, CT 06405
>(203) 488-9865
>I have two of them and they are excellent locos.
>Regards,
>Asa
>
None at all, forever it seemed like, now TWO sources for FL9s!!!!!!
It works Big John! I just started 'slicing & dicing' to bash one for myself
and now they're falling out of the trees.
Or was someone listening when I joked about "selling my soul for a decent
FL9"??????
Hmmmmm.....
C.L.Zeni
> None at all, forever it seemed like, now TWO sources for FL9s!!!!!!
>
> It works Big John! I just started 'slicing & dicing' to bash one for myself
> and now they're falling out of the trees.
>
> Or was someone listening when I joked about "selling my soul for a decent
> FL9"??????
>
> Hmmmmm.....
You don't mind a little heat, now do ya Len?