KELLER "ONBOARD" DCC SYSTEM
johnwi...@prodigy.net
I recently acquired a Keller "Onboard" DCC system. I know Keller seems
to have gone out of business, but I can't even find any information on
this hardware. Anybody know where I can find additional decoders and
light and sound controllers?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated
John
Christopher A. Lee
chips from your own recordings for any of the available
sound systems?
Thanks....Chris
Fritz Milhaupt
Tony's Train Exchange (http://www.ttx-dcc.com/) still deals in Keller
Onboard components and performs repairs. I don't know about the
availability of receivers, but Tony's lists throttles and boosters as
being available, as well as some of the sound equipment.
-fm
Perpetrator of the Haggis Decal Project at
http://www.rust.net/~milhaupt/haggiscar/
The return address in this message bounces. If you want to contact me
via e-mail, see my address on my web sites.
Ross
ON BOARD is not a DCC system. It is an analog, or carrier control, or
frequency division multiplex (whatever you prefer) system. This does not
mean that it is bad. However, it is not compatible with DCC systems.
> I know Keller seems to have gone out of business
Yes, quite some time ago.
> Anybody know where I can find additional decoders and light and sound
> controllers?
"Decoders" are called "throttles" with Keller. Sound "synthesizers" were
made to simulate locomotive sounds. No "light controllers" were made.
Tony Paresi, of Tony's Train Exchange (TTX), bought parts and tooling
from Bob Keller when he shut down ON BOARD. TTX may have what you want.
Even though ON BOARD is not DCC, it is Command Control. For all
practical purposes, it is limited to 17 channels. Channel 0, 1, and 20
(high F) are not very useful. Each channel, however, has 4 sub channels.
Two are used for loco control - forward/reverse and two are used for
sound control - bell/whistle. Throttles may be tuned to sound channels
so one can get 34 channel control if no sound units are used.
Track wiring is the same with ON BOARD or DCC. Heavy bus wire should be
used for power (12 ga) for medium size layouts - up to 250 sq ft. ON
BOARD is more sensitive to in-line resistance than DCC, especially the
sound units.
Standard, one amp Throttles were made in at least 4 different
configurations. An early model used an L293 motor driver IC, the next
replaced the L293's with 4 transistors. Either of these models works
well. The transistor version of the "T1" is smaller than the other and
can be cut in half for tucking in tight spots. The newer versions,
especially the last, went back to an IC for motor control and these can
be troublesome. Larger capacity Throttles were also made.
If you have limited funds, Keller was one of the better systems at the
time. Our own model railroad has operated with Keller since 1983 with
virtually no failures. Throttles require can motors for the most part,
these devices are less tolerant to overloads than most DCC Decoders.
If you install the system, run four (4) wires for the Keypad bus. Keller
only requires 3 but DCC needs 4. This will save you troubles when you
likely upgrade to DCC. Also note that Throttles can be fit in almost all
HO scale locomotives but DCC Decoders tend to be smaller to much
smaller.
--
Ross Allen, owner, RAILSERVE Custom Layouts
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
brad...@my-deja.com
John might just have a Keller DCC board. If you recall Keller sold a
few and a local hobby shop sold some before Keller went out of
business. The major drawback if I recall correctly was that The Keller
DCC was unable to address a decoder. ....John I would suggest that you
go directly to DCC as the Keller analog system is to me somewhat
limited.
Good wishes to you both
Brad
Mark Nolan
I have a box of "used" decoders, 1 sound unit, 5a mixer and a keypad.
If you, or anybody else for that matter, contact me directly and we will see
if we can work something out.'
--
Mark Nolan
Clarksville, TN
johnwi...@prodigy.net wrote in message
<38b2e3f...@news.prodigy.net>...
>
>I recently acquired a Keller "Onboard" DCC system. I know Keller seems
>to have gone out of business, but I can't even find any information on
>this hardware. Anybody know where I can find additional decoders and
>light and sound controllers?
>
>Any assistance would be greatly appreciated
>
>John
Kevin Jones
> frequency division multiplex (whatever you prefer) system. This does not
> mean that it is bad. However, it is not compatible with DCC systems.
Keller did have an early DCC system. There were very few of them
produced. I actually had my hands on a demo system from the Antique Barn
in Wilson NC several years ago. However, Keller designed the system
around logic gates rather than microprocessor technology. The board was
about 6x12 and full of nothing but chips! Then it was discoverd that
Keller had missed the mark on some of the DCC specs with the system. No
simple software fix here, whole sections of the board would have to be
redesigned. Shotly after that Keller gave up on command control all
together. The final letter to dealers was very interesting and I wish I
had a copy of it.
But as far as the Keller DCC system is concerned it is basically Junk.
It does not implement some of the DCC specs correctly, can't program
decoders (there was to be a seperate decoder programmer that was never
produced). Keller never had his own decoders, he repackaged Digitrax
decoders under the Keller name. So if you have Keller DCC decoders they
are OK. So salvage the decoders and pitch the system (or save it for a
museum piece). Then go out a buy a Digitrax Genisis, MRC or some other
entry level system that has more functionality and actually works
correctly. The investment will save you from much fustration in the
future.
Regards,
Kevin Jones
Louisville, KY
C. Zeni
>
> > ON BOARD is not a DCC system. It is an analog, or carrier control, or
> > frequency division multiplex (whatever you prefer) system. This does not
> > mean that it is bad. However, it is not compatible with DCC systems.
>
> Keller did have an early DCC system. There were very few of them
> produced. I actually had my hands on a demo system from the Antique Barn
> in Wilson NC several years ago. However, Keller designed the system
> around logic gates rather than microprocessor technology. The board was
> about 6x12 and full of nothing but chips! Then it was discoverd that
> Keller had missed the mark on some of the DCC specs with the system. No
> simple software fix here, whole sections of the board would have to be
> redesigned. Shotly after that Keller gave up on command control all
> together. The final letter to dealers was very interesting and I wish I
> had a copy of it.
A local guy here had a copy of the letter. Quite the bitter diatribe,
it was.
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html
http://www.trainweb.org/zeniphotos/zenihome.html
How much deeper would the ocean be without sponges?
Ross
Is the system you picked up ON BOARD analog or one of the "DCC" systems
other posters have discussed?
JP Morgan
<38b2e3f...@news.prodigy.net>...
>
>I recently acquired a Keller "Onboard" DCC system. I know Keller seems
>to have gone out of business, but I can't even find any information on
>this hardware. Anybody know where I can find additional decoders and
>light and sound controllers?
>
>Any assistance would be greatly appreciated
>
>John
Hi John,
The following web link will take you to Tony's Train Exchange. They are the
folks that currently sell the Onboard system:
http://www.ttx-dcc.com/index.php3
Now a few words of advice if I may. First off, the vast majority of Onboard
stuff is not DCC. Bob Keller did make a version of his system that was
supposidly DCC compatible, but as I understand it, it did not meet NMRA
specs. Unless you are a die hard Onboard user like myself, you should
probably not waste your time on it. You would be far better served to
purchase a new (or preowned) DCC system such as Lenz or Digitraxx. At least
you will be assured of a continual supply of parts that meet NMRA specs.
Should you decide to stay with the Onboard system. I have most of the
manuals, and can copy them for you for the cost of the photocopying, stamps
and envelope. I would suggest that you don't buy additional supplies from
Tony's. They want too much!! Keep an eye out at local train shows, swap
meets and on eBay. Some excess stuff comes up occasionally, especially on
eBay, but watch your prices. The stuff is worth next to nothing.
For instance there is a complete Keller system currently on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=265884343
The guy has a starting bid of $100 with a higher reserve. He has actually
about $50 to $100 bucks worth of stuff, not counting the locomotives. He is
dreaming in technicolor.
I also have a few decoders (1 amp, sufficient for HO locomotives and 4 amp,
sufficient for LGB) that I can part with. The 1 amps are $5 each, the 4 amps
$15 each (US dollars). Contact me off the list because I will need to know
the channels that you have already. I also am interested in
purchasing keypads, mixers 2 amp decoders, steam sound systems and reverb
units. I pay $5 each for keypads, mixers and reverb units, $10 each for 2 amp
decoders and steam sound systems. (As I say, this stuff has very little resale
value). 1 amp decoders are garbage as far as I'm concerned.
John Morgan
Algoma Eastern Railway Heritage Group
Saving the Little Current Sub.
http://www.intranet.ca/~morcomp/aer.html
Access Systems
: > ON BOARD is not a DCC system. It is an analog, or carrier control, or
: > frequency division multiplex (whatever you prefer) system. This does not
: > mean that it is bad. However, it is not compatible with DCC systems.
: Keller did have an early DCC system. There were very few of them
: produced. I actually had my hands on a demo system from the Antique Barn
right, BUT the ONBOARD system was not DCC, they were different systems. I
had a long talk with him a week or so before his "troubles" and his
biggest problem was he wanted to build a DCC system that would also work
concurrently with his older "Tone-link" system (the ONBOARD system)
: decoders under the Keller name. So if you have Keller DCC decoders they
: are OK. So salvage the decoders and pitch the system (or save it for a
: museum piece). Then go out a buy a Digitrax Genisis, MRC or some other
: entry level system that has more functionality and actually works
: correctly. The investment will save you from much fustration in the
: future.
However the original ONBOARD system using the tone-link system of command
control was a very reliable and durable system. he supported it well for
many years and there are quite a few ONBOARD systems still in use,
including mine which has been running reliably for about 20 years.
the ONBOARD and other early command control systems should not to be
confused with current DCC command control systems, the early systems were
not interchangable, so if you had one brand you could only run that brand,
one of the real advantages of DCC is the "standardization" that the NMRA
and their committee on electronic control gave to the model railroad
community.
Bob
: Regards,
: Kevin Jones
: Louisville, KY
--
Ken Henderson
think) that would repair and buy the Keller Onboard equipment. There was
an announcement printed in Model Railroader. But, that is all I can
remember at this time.
I have a friend who may have some extra Keller stuff to sell.
Cheers, Ken
Michel Cousineau
He did have a fire in his building and now his site does not seem to mention OnBoard.
I have some OnBoard decoders etc to sell.
If ever you are interested, just e-mail me and I will send a list of what we have.
Regards
Claudette