Hobby Shop Commentary
Paul Tackowiak
month's editorial in Mainline Modeler about hobby shops going out
of business. The editorial spouted the usual homily about
mailorder and internet stores putting old fashioned hobby stores
out of business and how that might hurt the health of the hobby.
Of course the editor provided no names, no figures, just an
assertion which we presume is more knowledgeable than our own.
I can not help but believe, however, that this is a utter
misconception. Unfortunately, the argument either way must be
theoretical since we lack any facts or case studies. If I can
surmise the common assumption it goes like this:
Old fashioned hobby shops are being put out of business because
virtual retailers (mailorder/internet) are stealing high margin
sales. The virtual retailers have an unfair advantage because
they have a lower overhead and do not offer all of the low margin
items that a full service hobby shop offers. Without the high
margin sales to subsidize the low margin business, full service
hobby shops lose revenue and eventually go out of business. This
endangers the hobby because not only is the availability of low
margin items threatened, but the customer service provided by the
full service hobby shop disappears as well and this is often
considered the 'cornerstone' of our hobby.
Well pshaw. I think the main driver behind this assumption
certainly isn't any economic analysis, but rather a hibitual
resistance to change. I believe most people who engage in our
hobby don't like the change and uncertainty that comes with free
market. Many modelers want what they want when they want it and
the way they want it, not when or how the marketplace decides it
will be available (see parallel opinions about limited production
runs). The reported loss of traditional hobby shops has not as
yet limited the availability of any product to consumers. It has
changed the means of procuring some products, but they are still
succesfully manufactured and sold. The rise of the internet has
provided another entire venue for consumer support and this may
in no small way effect the value and type of "customer service"
ot be offered by retailers.
A critical question for Mainline Modeler is how much has the
total model railroad hobby sales increased over the last 10
years? I would wager that over the 1990s our hobby grew
significantly in terms of money spent. This is important because
the editorial premise is that the business is a zero sum game,
where the virtual retailer takes from the the traditional
retailer. I would bet that the truth is far more complicated and
it is entirely possible that increase in virtual retailers simply
reflect the hobby grow in general.
If the model railroading pie has gotten bigger then why do some
retailers fail? Well that's a better question and MM's editorial
would have been more instructive if it considered the issue in
those terms.
In my opinion, hobby shops fail for the same reason other small
businesses fail - poor planning and an inability to correctly
meet the market demands. That last point is instructive and if
you want proof don't consider the failures - consider the
successes. I'm only guessing (I imagine MM could find out), but I
bet the nation's largest m.r. retailers 10 years ago are
basically the same one's today. What's different? They've all
added web sites. Succesful businesses change. Many people in our
hobby tend not to like change and probably no group is worse in
this regard than the small hobby shop owners.
The "Hobby Shop Frustration" thread underlined some of the
entrenched attitudes out there, most of which arose from an era
when people may have been less inclined or able to find non-local
sources for luxuries like hobby supplies. Well, the world has
changed and those people (consumers and retailers) who don't take
advantage will lose out and eventually feel taken advantage of.
The MM editorial doesn't help the situation because it doesn't
recognize that the hobby changes just like the real world. It may
be that our hobby inherently encourages a nostalgic,
traditionalist mind set. I hope this fascination with the past
doesn't blind people to the future.
Paul Tackowiak
ps - I would have e-mailed this to Mainline Modeler, but they
don't seem to have an email address.
LarEyman
Great article. One thing I would add to the demise of many hobby shops on the
ropes is that they ignore the need for in house service or at least a local
person who will repair, paint, install and or anything that will encourage the
customer that his or her service needs can be met without much delay.
This is was the same thing that killed the corner service station along with
having bad fuel storage tanks underground. When they started going to selling
coffee and donuts in leiu of tires and brake jobs they went under. SERVICE is
and always will the final common denominater of success.
Larry at PapasTrains.com
A full Service arm of the hobby :-)
Chuck Callaghan
was sitting at his desk working on a coupler change for his own engine.
Never asked me if he could help me find something or what. I finally asked
him about an engine I needed and his answer was he didn't carry it would
order at list price and went back to his engine. Needless to say, I didn't
buy it there. On the other hand, was in Strasburg, Pa last summer walked
into the local shop and the owner came up to me immediately, inquired if I
was local and when he found out I was from out of state told me they had an
E-Mail site, gave me his card and a small brochure to use. Besides that had
many items I never saw before in a shop of any kind.Needless to say, I
bought quite a bit from him. Now which shop would you go back to?? I wish I
lived closer to Strasburg.
You are right about the amount of money being spent on the hobby these days.
Otherwise the manufacturer's would also be hurting, but they don't seem to
be.
Chuck Callaghan
E-Mail cj...@virginia.edu
Paul Tackowiak <paul.ta...@bms.com> wrote in message
news:3A75A680...@bms.com...
Paul Tackowiak
LarEyman wrote:
>
> Hello Paul
> Great article. One thing I would add to the demise of many hobby shops on the
> ropes is that they ignore the need for in house service or at least a local
> person who will repair, paint, install and or anything that will encourage the
> customer that his or her service needs can be met without much delay.
>
This one's trickier in that services like custom painting are
such a subjective business that it's hard to find someone who can
do the work, put up with the grief and not give you sticker
shock. Even repairs can be tricky with some people never being
satisfied with the result and the labor charges being very high
to make it worth anyone's while. What I would do as a shop owner
- inspect anything, fix simple things (broken couplers for
example) and provide some kind of board where custom painters,
tinkerers, etc. can offer their services to those in need. I
would be a conduit for services I didn't wish to offer myself.
People don't expect any shop owner to be able to do everything,
but they do appreciate an effort to find them the best solution.
Paul Tackowiak
Train Man
more. One fact that you kind of glossed over (I thought) is that a lot
of the internet and mail order places are IN FACT, FULL SERVICE brick
and mortar hobby shops. And most of them offer the same discounts to
both markets. I will also add that imho, the mail order places have been
offering FAR better service than most of the local places. Also, the
days of "we don't have it in stock but we can get it" are long gone. I
can get it too... AND pay less... I have a lot more to say but it would
be re-hash so I'll stop....
my 2 ¢,
Jeff
LarEyman
That is what I was referring to Pau. Thatl is for the shop to have a resourse
board and even better yet know of someone in the area that does that kind of
work.
Trainchasr
Great article. One thing I would add to the demise of many hobby shops on the
ropes is that they ignore the need for in house service or at least a local
person who will repair, paint, install and or anything that will encourage the
customer that his or her service needs can be met without much delay. >>
The shop I frequent has been in business since, oh, about 1984. In addition to
HO and N scale trains, he also carries static model kits (cars, planes,
military, etc.), R/C cars and associated components, and even dabbles in
rocketry. And yes, he even has a bulletin board.
Because he's a one-man operation, he does not perform the repair services
himself; these are offered through arrangement with a third party. When I last
checked, I queried about repairs on locomotives, he said he didn't have anyone
to do that, and asked if I was interested. AFAIK, it's still open.
The bottom line is, if there is a shop in your area that doesn't offer repairs,
talk to the owner about being that third party. If you're a shopowner, consider
asking some of your regular customers if they would like to do that on the side
for some extra money. Everybody would benefit.
Dieter Zakas
Christian
| ps - I would have e-mailed this to Mainline Modeler, but they
| don't seem to have an email address.
Hundman rants about the internet destroying the hobby (it seems) once a
year. No facts ever. And MM seems dead set against using spell checkers.
YET, Hundman was the pioneer in CAD drafting of railroad subjects and his
magazine has been produced by computer almost from the first. Watch the
letters to the editor the next couple of months and you'll see some really
fine paranoia from the MM ditto heads!
CTucker
NY
Lindy9113
>ropes is that they ignore the need for in house service or at least a local
>person who will repair, paint, install and or anything
BINGO! Nailed it in one Larry! They want to provide no service other than
stocking the shelves and when you compare that to the mail order houses they
don't even compete there! Thus it comes down to price and they loose that one
too!
None of the local shops here provide DCC installations. SO who do you buy your
DCC outfit? Larry who will do installations or the local shmuck who just gives
you a blank look or better yet tells you just buy this it's easy just follow
the instructions?? Tonys Train Exchange who couples discounts with
installations and service?? The local guy just clams up when you mention
installations.
You have to sell alot of paint bottles and track to equal the markup on a DCC
system and a couple of handhelds.
Dave
in Kansas
Scott G. Perry
What about good ole customer service? You know, I have been in over twenty hobby
shops in the southeast in the past two months (I travel some.) Not ONE single
store asked me -
My name
What scale do I model
Offered me a sale item
Asked me to join a mailing list
Offered me a clinic (free or paid)
One offers a neat, different service - Kennesaw Trains has a collection of
reference books that I can peruse at my leisure and a drawing each month.
Asked me if I belong to the NMRA
Four of the stores NEVER said a word to me, even though I have been in before
Only two show information on local clubs and organizations
Screw price...it would be nice for someone to say "Hey Scott, good to see you.
I've got some new stuff that you may like, want to see it..."
People buy from those they like and trust. I have been a salesman for 16 years
and this has never failed. You can get around price and other obstacles...but
when it comes down to it, the personal relationship is very important.
National Hobby used to have a "pot bellied stove" area where I could sit, BS with
other modelers, check out the latest video, or just inhale sidestream cigarette
smoke. The new store doesn't have it...or the great G gage model railroad either.
...just thinking...
Scott Perry
john a dalton
>
>The "Hobby Shop Frustration" thread underlined some of the
>entrenched attitudes out there, most of which arose from an era
>when people may have been less inclined or able to find non-local
>sources for luxuries like hobby supplies. Well, the world has
>changed and those people (consumers and retailers) who don't take
>advantage will lose out and eventually feel taken advantage of.
>The MM editorial doesn't help the situation because it doesn't
>recognize that the hobby changes just like the real world. It may
>be that our hobby inherently encourages a nostalgic,
>traditionalist mind set. I hope this fascination with the past
>doesn't blind people to the future.
>
>Paul Tackowiak
......a gentle reminder of how things are evolving was when i found
some Athearn in a Wallymart recently..... :))
......the dept manager, 26 yrs old, said he didn't know what was in
the boxes, but whatever it was would sell better if it was in a
bubble-package like everything else (everybody had opened the taped
boxes to see what was in'em)..... :))
......i bought 4 kits at 20% off list.....they were all yellow boxcars
(40' - 50'- 60' - 85')....i had to open the boxes to see....the 2 boys
looking over my shoulder said......
....."what's that in the box ?".....
......"a train"....
......"oh".....
......shrug of shoulders....
......"my dad has trains, but they're bigger than that"..... :))
......big john..... :))
john a dalton
....in the 50's there was a guy in my hometown who SERVICED
trains.....you'd walk in and you could smell the lubricating
oil.....oh, he sold a few engines and such.....he had the shelves
lined with new trains.....BUT his thing was SERVICING trains.....folks
brought in their trains REGULARLY for service.....kinda like getting
the car serviced.....he kept'em running..... :))
....."OPEN 9-T0-6" everyday.....that's what the sign said.....we usta
just go in and talk.....one day i went in and swept out the place for
him.....he didn't ask me to.....it just needed sweeping....i went to
school with Junior....he was our only 4-letter athlete (football,
baseball, track, and basketball).....nice guy.... :))
.....big..... :))
Christopher Thayer
<3A75A680...@bms.com>:
>I was reminded by the "Hobby Shop Frustration" thread of this
>month's editorial in Mainline Modeler about hobby shops going out
>of business. The editorial spouted the usual homily about
>mailorder and internet stores putting old fashioned hobby stores
>out of business and how that might hurt the health of the hobby.
[snip wonderful analysis]
I have to agree. In the end, it has to come down to business sense. I
just bought a Paasche H model airbrush set from a discount art-supply place
on the Internet. I paid $41.95 for it. Last weekend I was in my local
hobbyshop and saw the same set priced $.05 less than list - $76.95. Had
the difference been $10 or $12 I would have gotten it at the hobby shop.
But, $35 !! Oh, yeah...the discount art-supply place is brick-and-mortar,
as well. They've figured it out, somehow.
Now, I know my local hobby shop couldn't pay the rent if they couldn't make
a profit. But I've never gone in there and seen signs for a special sale
or a promotion. Just near-list prices. I still shop there, but not as
much. He does offer a 5 per cent discount to members of my club, which is
better than a sharp stick in the eye, I guess.
Chris "But 35 bucks is a kick in the pants" Thayer
Lindy9113
>with
>other modelers, check out the latest video, or just inhale sidestream
>cigarette
Spotlight Model Railroad in Kansas City used to have a row of chairs and a Coke
machine.We'd spend hours in there developed alot of personal relationships and
back in those days I bought alot of HO brass there too! Those chairs and that
Coke machine paid alot of bills. Of course when the store was sold they
immediately removed the chairs and now the shop is gone, it just didn't have
the same flavor.
Dave
in Kansas
john a dalton
......RMR is just like that old store with the chairs and the Coke
machine.....long may she be that way.....there ARE forces afoot that
want to remove the chairs AND the Coke machine.....i've gotten email
from'em....they say they OWN RMR....i disagree.....
......thanks for your post, Dave..... :))
.....big john..... :))
mcb...@my-deja.com
ctth...@earthlink.net (Christopher Thayer) wrote:
> > But, $35 !!
It's all about price gouging. The rest is quite secondary.
Our local train store charges prices that are simply absurd! A Bachmann
Consolidation for $125 when I can get it via the internet for under $70.
I could site many more examples. It's a no brainer. You buy the piece
over the internet, and you expect to spend some of the savings down
the road on repairs by mailing the broken unit back to the manufacturer.
I refuse to support greed.
Charles RO in Medford, Ma. does a great job of competing with the
internet stores. They added a website [not for their HO inventory].
Their HO scale prices are so close to the on-line places it is a real
treat to shop there. I have bought a number of Kadee boxcars from them
and other reasonably expensive items. My wife and I go there once every
couple of months [2 hr drive]. We spend the day in the city, shop at
Charles RO on the way out of Beantown, and head home.
My local guy can go under any time - he's greedy, and he takes advantage
of people who do not know about the on-line options. I always feel bad
when I see a person buying something in his store when I can tell that
this purchase is a reach for that individual. I bite my tongue and I
head out [I always regret not saying something to stop the purchase, but
that is not proper to do to the store, so I don't].
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
James Bernier
on-line. I do the same thing. What you may not realize is that the local
dealer who is trying sell it for MSRP($125 for that Spectrum 2-8-0) paid $75
for it. The normal retail discount to the retailer is 40%. The big on-line
dealer is also the middleman and is buying the model for something like 36
cents on the dollar. He can sell the model for $70. Why a guy would open a
small hobby shop whenhe has to compete with large operations is a puzzlement
to me.
My local dealer is big enough that he can make big enough purchases so he
can get something better that the standard retailer discount. He alo moves
enough merchandise that he can afford to discount.
The small guy you are talking about may not be greedy; just does not have
a clue how the real world works(but I bet he is getting a lesson real
fast!).
Jim Bernier
Tank
on the Internet. I paid $41.95 for it. Last weekend I was in my local
hobbyshop and saw the same set priced $.05 less than list - $76.95. <
Apples and oranges. An art-supply place will sell more air brushes than
a hobby shop, simply by virtue of the broader audience. The art supply
place is getting artists, modelers and others. How often does an artist
wander into a train shop looking for the tools of his trade? The art supply
place has it on volume in this instance
As regards general frustrations, I recently went to a shop where the
owner tried desperately to sell me O gauge products after I had told
him my interest and investment was already in HO. His implication was
that O gauge was better and that I "should" be building my layout in O,
rather than in HO. This was because his interest was in O gauge. About
80% of his product line was Lionel and other related items. I am not
denigrating that at all, if I had the room, I might actually consider it,
but
a good shopkeeper will not tell his customers what they "should" do,
unless they specifically ask.
--
Tank
Sunbury & Lake Erie Railroad - HO Scale
Peter King
James Bernier wrote:
>
> I understand your refusal to pay MSRP when you can get it for a good price
> on-line. I do the same thing. What you may not realize is that the local
> dealer who is trying sell it for MSRP($125 for that Spectrum 2-8-0) paid $75
> for it. The normal retail discount to the retailer is 40%.
This number is often kicked around as the 'standard' dealer discount.
SOME manufacturers who sell direct use this as a straight discount. It's
very uncommon for buying through a distributor. Any dealer who's paying
this needs a serious lesson in basic finance.
>The big on-line
> dealer is also the middleman
Often, but not always.
>and is buying the model for something like 36
> cents on the dollar.
Way, way off. I know of one, and only one, manufacturer that offers this
kind of distributor discount, and that's Bachmann's standard line.
Standard distributor discount is not nearly so generous. Very large
distributors (like Walthers and Hobby Stores) MAY be able to shave
another point or two off, but nothing like 64%. Distributors work on
very thin margins.
> He can sell the model for $70. Why a guy would open a
> small hobby shop whenhe has to compete with large operations is a puzzlement
> to me.
>
> My local dealer is big enough that he can make big enough purchases so he
> can get something better that the standard retailer discount.
This is a lot less common than you would think. A very few manufacturers
will sell to anyone at distributor terms, if the order is big enough. I
know Bachmann will, and I think Life Like. Athearn will NOT. They will
ONLY sell at distributor discount if you are really engaged in
distributing. A few years ago, they sent someone out to all
'distributors', and cut off those who were really just big retail
operations. Also, they are NOT taking new distributors. There's no need
to, they have the whole country covered now.
> He alo moves
> enough merchandise that he can afford to discount.
>
Probably the biggest factor. He's willing to make a little less, and
make up for it in getting his return faster. A sound business practice.
My information comes from actual invoices, and from talking to people
who are or were dealers, manufacturers or distributors.
Peter King in NY
--
Charles M. Schulz 1922 - 2000.
Cartoonist, artist, illustrator, philosopher, humanitarian.
Rest in peace, old friend. And thank you for a lifetime of smiles and
laughter.
Mark Smith
,,,,,,,,,, James Bernier wrote: The normal retail discount to the
retailer is 40%.
> Any dealer who's paying
> this needs a serious lesson in basic finance.
As a dealer, I got the 40 percent discount from both Walthers and Hobby
Store Dist.
Are you saying this is incorrect or that I was paying way too much ?
--
Mark Smith
Tri-State Kite Sales http://www.trikite.com
1121 N Locust St
Mt Vernon, IN 47620 mailto:ma...@trikite.com
John Volker
discounts are sometimes available for various reasons. The problem comes
when you discount from MSRP. It is all about contribution margin and
breakeven. A simple rule of thumb is to divide your expenses by .40 (your
contribution margin). The result is the amount of goods that you have to
sell to pay the given expense. For example, store rent is $1500 per month.
At standard retail markups you need to sell (1500/.40 = $3750) $3,750 in
merchandise to breakeven on rent. If you discount to your customers such
that your contribution margin goes to .30 your sales have to increase to
(1500/.30=$5000) $5000. That is why small stores in limited market areas
have such a very hard time staying alive.
"Mark Smith" <ma...@trikite.com> wrote in message
news:3A775B...@trikite.com...
Kennedy
> ......RMR is just like that old store with the chairs and the Coke
> machine.....long may she be that way.....there ARE forces afoot that
> want to remove the chairs AND the Coke machine.....i've gotten email
> from'em....they say they OWN RMR....i disagree.....
And, like sitting in those chairs next to the Coke machine, the topic of
discussion drifts away from trains time to time.
Kennedy
--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet for the Web
David Nebenzahl
OK, Large Johannes: you remember the chairs around the Coke machine, but do
you remember the corner store with the cooler that sold Kayo for 10 cents a
bottle? The most delicious drink in the universe, kind of like a pourable
chocolate milk shake, in a small (10 oz?) bottle? And don't even *think* of
mentioning Yoo-Hoo: no comparison.
Naturally, the store (the corner cigar store on, where else? Main St.) is
gone now.
ObRMR content: the cigar store was a block away from both the C&NW and CTA
"L" viaducts.
--
Will write sig for food
john a dalton
......i remember when Kayo was 5-cents a bottle....i remember reaching
my hand down in the COLD water and pulling one out.....i've got 4 Kayo
bottles in my collection.....Kayo was the character with the hat, from
the "funny papers"....the Kayo bottle was shaped somewhat like the
original Orange Crush bottle..... :))
>Naturally, the store (the corner cigar store on, where else? Main St.) is
>gone now.
.....we still have them in rural Georgia......on Main St,
too.....they're not air-conditioned....they keep the candy in the
freezer.....you can sit outside and eat cold watermelon IF you can
stand the yellow-jackets.....but you CAN buy COLD sodapop right from
the old water-cooler ice-box.....you might hafta fish around the
watermelons, but what the hey !!!..... :))
.....big old john..... :))
.....ps.....i remember 3-cent candy bars, too..... :))
Scott G. Perry
preserved covered bridge still has RC cola, Moonpies, and a rickety front porch, just
across the street from the two-red-door Baptist Church. Sometimes I go wade in the
creek...just to get Atlanta out of my pores.
Sucks being Southern in Atlanta...
Scott Perry
Down And Out in Eurharlee
(got to send you guys some pictures of the bridge sometime.)
Andy Harman
<paul.ta...@bms.com> wrote:
>ps - I would have e-mailed this to Mainline Modeler, but they
>don't seem to have an email address.
Bob Hundman has produced a fine magazine over the years (I have every
issue of MM since #1) and many fine books. But when it comes to this
internet thing, he just doesn't get it. I doubt if he's seen most of
the rebuttals to his editorials, unless the Mad Faxer has kept him
selectively "informed", but since the MF is kind of a competitor,
maybe not.
I am as resistant to change as anyone... for instance I still write
mainframe-style systems to run on Unix hosts instead of GUI crap,
because that's what my customers want and I can do the most bang for
the buck with that technology. But I'm not going to run myself out of
business being stubborn, I will go where the money is. I think Mr.
Hundman, along with many of the hobby dealers he cites, are just too
stubborn to face the fact that they aren't providing what customers
want, period. Finding a scapegoat is a very time-tested procedure,
guaranteed to garner lots of sympathy and a-mens, but it won't keep
them in business.
Andy
----------------------------------------------------
Please reply to aharman at hhcustom dot com
Visit the RPM Web Page at http://www.rpmrail.org
Or my personal site at http://www.hhcustom.com/nspmg
----------------------------------------------------
Andy Harman
<scott...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>What about good ole customer service? You know, I have been in over twenty hobby
>shops in the southeast in the past two months (I travel some.) Not ONE single
>store asked me -
>My name
>What scale do I model
>Offered me a sale item
>Asked me to join a mailing list
>Offered me a clinic (free or paid)
>One offers a neat, different service - Kennesaw Trains has a collection of
>reference books that I can peruse at my leisure and a drawing each month.
>Asked me if I belong to the NMRA
>Four of the stores NEVER said a word to me, even though I have been in before
>Only two show information on local clubs and organizations
>
>Screw price...it would be nice for someone to say "Hey Scott, good to see you.
>I've got some new stuff that you may like, want to see it..."
>
>People buy from those they like and trust. I have been a salesman for 16 years
>and this has never failed. You can get around price and other obstacles...but
>when it comes down to it, the personal relationship is very important.
The hobby shops that I do business with - both local and everywhere
else, have all these elements you mention.
We always kid Ron Sebastian (Des Plaines) about this because its
true... when the MRIA show goes on at Rosemont (about 10-15 minutes
from Des Plaines in moderate traffic) Ron rarely makes it to the show.
Why? Because he knows, and we know, that everybody who is anybody
comes to HIS place after the show closes. The manufacturers bring
their new stuff down there to show off. So if you want to see whats
happening in the hobby, no need to brave the crowds at Rosemont, just
drop in for free at Des Plaines Hobbies after the show :-)
He also carries stuff that I might be able to special order locally -
like Brass Car Sides, Miniatures by Eric parts, etc - but he's got
them out on the rack where you can see 'em. Big difference from
shopping a catalog. I *always* prefer to shop off the rack. I defend
the mail order and internet side of the hobby, because it has proven
itself as a viable business (ehobbies.com excepted, although they may
yet have enough time/capital to buy a clue, we'll see). But 90% of my
hobby dollar goes to South Park Hobbies, Johnny's Toys, Golf Manor
Hobbies (all local), Des Plaines (5 hour drive), Hawkins (3 hour
drive), or Original Whistle Stop (4 hour flight + 1 hour drive). And
most of the rest is spent here and there at shows, with dealers I know
like Gordy Morgan, Dave Hickinbotham, and others. VERY little of my
train stuff comes mail order. But I understand and defend its
existance.
Andy Harman
Thayer) wrote:
>I have to agree. In the end, it has to come down to business sense. I
>just bought a Paasche H model airbrush set from a discount art-supply place
>on the Internet. I paid $41.95 for it.
All the more reasons not to buy that "Bic" airbrush which will remain
unnamed...
Richard Strebendt
> >People buy from those they like and trust. I have been a salesman for 16 years
> >and this has never failed. You can get around price and other obstacles...but
> >when it comes down to it, the personal relationship is very important.
>
> The hobby shops that I do business with - both local and everywhere
> else, have all these elements you mention.
Unfortunately, not all of us can build up personal relationships with our hobby shop
owners. I also like to shop at the local hobby shops, but I am seeing less and less
train stuff at the hobby shops and more model rockets and more RC controlled planes
and cars. I have been in the hobby since I was a kid in the late '50s, so I remember
when hobby shops were full service train stores. I do not see that any more.
> [Des Plaines Hobbies] also carries stuff that I might be able to special order
> locally -
> like Brass Car Sides, Miniatures by Eric parts, etc - but he's got
> them out on the rack where you can see 'em. Big difference from
> shopping a catalog. I *always* prefer to shop off the rack.
Des Plaines Hobbies and Palatine Hobbies here in the Chicago area come the closest to
being Train Hobbiest Stores to any I have visited. Al's Hobbies in Elmhurst used to
be like that, but the train part of the store keeps shrinking and the RC part keeps
growning. Where Des Plaines Hobbies has a couple of racks full of different brands of
DCC decoders, Al's has a small bundle of Digitrax stuff hidden in a corner of a show
case. The RC stuff takes up about half of Al's store. In my near neighborhood there
are a couple of hobby shops I used to like to visit. One just finished having an
inventory clearance sale and is closing. At the other the inventory seems to keep
dwindling, but the plastic model and RC sections seem to be growing. So, while I
like to "shop off the rack" myself, it is becoming less and less a viable way for me
to shop.
> I defend
> the mail order and internet side of the hobby, because it has proven
> itself as a viable business
I find myself ordering more and more from Web pages. First the ability to shop at any
time it is convenient for me without driving for hours to find out that they don't
stock that brand any more (or are not open late that evening or on Sunday), and,
second, the price advantage many of the sites have are forcing me in this direction.
I do need to be able to take a look at what is in stock, and what kind of price is
being charged for the items, so some "enter the Walther's number here" webshops do not
get my business. On the other hand, I have done a good bit of DCC business with both
Loy's Toys and Tony's Train Exchange, getting good service from both of them and a
good selection of equipment for both. I have tended to go more to Tony's because of
the wide variety of brands (not just Digitrax and TCS) decoders they handle.
> ... And
> most of the rest is spent here and there at shows, with dealers I know
> like Gordy Morgan, Dave Hickinbotham, and others. VERY little of my
> train stuff comes mail order. But I understand and defend its
> existance.
I do visit the DuPage Train Show from time to time, but I see little there in which I
am interested and a lot of Lionel parts and junked HO cars from yesteryear being sold
at Brass prices, and Brass being sold at Solid Gold prices. Sometimes I catch
something interesting at a good price, so that keeps me coming back, but not every
month. I do not defend the mail order business, I use it frequently. I use it to get
stuff that I cannot get locally -- tools from MicroMark, decoders from Loy's and
Tony's, special materials from Clover House, occasionally even a model or part from
Walther's, engines from the B&ORRHS, ...
I lament the decline of the neighborhood hobby shop, but I understand that, to
survive, they have to serve other hobbies, like RC models, better and this seems to
lead to a reduction in the space available for trains. Consequently, I am forced to
look elsewhere for the tools, models, and electronics that they cannot stock.
Fortunately, web sites have sprung up to fill this need.
--
Richard Strebendt rstre...@lucent.com
IHP 1F-429 x98302 http://ans.ih.lucent.com/~res
Paul Tackowiak
don't think Randy Lee ever got over his arachnophobia - let me
know if I'm wrong - and I don't expect Bob H. to see the world
differently either. What I find fascinating is whether his
misconceptions about retail hobby failure bodes ill for his own
stewardship of Mainline Modeler. I too have been a subscriber for
years and I've always had a sense that MM is no where near as big
and resilient as MR and a change in our economic times might
immediately impact the viability of MM. I'd hate to see any of
our mags do under, but they're really not much different than the
hobby stores in the sense that they have to stay current with
what people want from the hobby. If they get stuck operating in
the past, they're not likely to have a future.
Paul Tackowiak
Robert and Diana Wintle
did have Lawn Chairs and Catalpa Trees. Thanks for the memories Dave!
Andy Harman
<paul.ta...@bms.com> wrote:
>Go Mad Faxer go, not that it's going to make any difference. I
>don't think Randy Lee ever got over his arachnophobia - let me
>know if I'm wrong -
Don't know if he has gotten over it but at least he has shut up about
it for the time being :-)
>differently either. What I find fascinating is whether his
>misconceptions about retail hobby failure bodes ill for his own
>stewardship of Mainline Modeler. I too have been a subscriber for
>years and I've always had a sense that MM is no where near as big
>and resilient as MR and a change in our economic times might
>immediately impact the viability of MM. I'd hate to see any of
>our mags do under, but they're really not much different than the
>hobby stores in the sense that they have to stay current with
>what people want from the hobby. If they get stuck operating in
>the past, they're not likely to have a future.
The last I heard, of the "Big Five" MM had fallen to the #5 spot,
having been at #3 before MRG and RMJ (currently #3) advanced.
I still buy all 5 magazines each month, still have an old MRG
subscription going but the rest over the counter. I will not abandon
a publication for a few lukewarm issues or a run of issues without
articles of interest. Nor will I abandon them for a stupid editorial
or three, in fact that keeps things interesting - have to buy the next
month's issue to see if he prints any of the good rebuttals ;-)
I support the magazines by buying them, which I suppose keeps me in
the circle of "legitimate gripe rights".
Ccutler0
It's also about the cost of holding inventory. It's expensive to keep
highly-specialized items on the shelf for long periods of time before someone
looking for exactly that item comes and buys it. I'd hate to own a hobby shop
today.
Kent Ashton
*snip*
>
>The last I heard, of the "Big Five" MM had fallen to the #5 spot,
>having been at #3 before MRG and RMJ (currently #3) advanced.
>
>I still buy all 5 magazines each month, still have an old MRG
>subscription going but the rest over the counter. I will not abandon
>a publication for a few lukewarm issues or a run of issues without
>articles of interest. Nor will I abandon them for a stupid editorial
>or three, in fact that keeps things interesting - have to buy the next
>month's issue to see if he prints any of the good rebuttals ;-)
>
I was buying most issues of MM for about three years, and had a
subscription for a year before that. It is a well put together
magazine.
BUT about a year ago the price took a steep jump here in the Great
White North. After Tax, it works out to a few pennies shy of $10.00
(cdn).
I think I've bought one issue since, and only because there was a
decent article about my favourite prototype. I have talked to a couple
of hobby shop owners who have halved their MM order, and still send
some unsold copies back.
Maybe partly explains the drop to #5?
Kent
Kent Ashton & Myrna McCoy | http://www.pangea.ca/~kashton -personal
kas...@pangea.ca |
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada | http://members.nbci.com/renegade_mrc -model rail
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Alan Gilchrist
> Bob Hundman has produced a fine magazine over the years (I have every
> issue of MM since #1) and many fine books. But when it comes to this
> internet thing, he just doesn't get it. I doubt if he's seen most of
My all time favorite magazine (MM), subscribed to it for about 2-3
years till about last summer or so when I let it run out.
After spending 6 months or so "trying" to buy it from the local hobby
shops, I broke down and ordered a subscription thru their web site...
Two weeks later and still no transaction from Hundman on my credit card
!, so I decide to run to the bank and get a MO and get it the old fashion
way, by mail...
Before leaving the house, I check my credit card account thru the banks
website, guess what shows up !?.
Last week the first issue shows up in the mail, great !, I thought,
open it up and it's CTC Board...
Called up Hundman Publishing (from Ontario, Canada) to check to see
what's going on, confirmed I am subscribed to MM, already had Jan. issue,
so the nice lady extended the subscription an extra month...
I've said enough...
--
Alan - Remove "NOT." from address before replying via email !.
Randy
news:954bql$i4s$1...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU...
> Good reply. The last time I went into our local shop (now defunct) the
owner
> was sitting at his desk working on a coupler change for his own engine.
> Never asked me if he could help me find something or what. I finally asked
> him about an engine I needed and his answer was he didn't carry it would
> order at list price and went back to his engine. Needless to say, I didn't
> buy it there. On the other hand, was in Strasburg, Pa last summer walked
> into the local shop and the owner came up to me immediately, inquired if I
> was local and when he found out I was from out of state told me they had
an
> E-Mail site, gave me his card and a small brochure to use. Besides that
had
> many items I never saw before in a shop of any kind.Needless to say, I
> bought quite a bit from him. Now which shop would you go back to?? I wish
I
> lived closer to Strasburg.
>
Presently I'm just getting into model RR and never even thought of
Strasburg, even though it is less than an hour away. When I get off of 7
days at work, I'll have to pack the wife into the car and take a nice
Saturday or Sunday ride. I've been looking for a few local hobby houses,
but the hours I am working right now I just don't seem to have the time...I
can't wait till I can devote some time to getting my platform built so I can
start putting some track down. The way it looks I might be going with N
gauge...I thinking of starting with an Empire Builder Set by Bachmann, any
one have any opinions on this set up as a starter?
--Randy