Steam Engine Explosion
EBTBOB
There is an article in the morning newspaper here near Philly, that says
there was a steam engine explosion in Medina, Ohio yesterday, July 29th.
There was no mention as to whether this was a railroad steam engine or not. My
first thought is that it was not a rail steam engine because the article said
it was being moved into position at a county fair. Does anyone know anything
else?
Bob
JBHORNBEAK
oil and water. others struck by hot metal shrapnel. 4 people died. Here is the
CNN news story link.
http://www.cnn.com/virtual/editions/europe/2000/roof/change.pop/frameset.e
xclude.html
Ship it on the Frisco
Bob
Here's a better link (I hope!)
"JBHORNBEAK" <jbhor...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010730070035...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
Walt
into the explosion will be difficult because the people who died
were the _only_ experts on this type of steam engine around.
Christopher Vernell
>
> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:54:37 -0400, Walt <Wa...@Early.com> wrote :
>
> >They mentioned on the radio that four people died. An investigation
> >into the explosion will be difficult because the people who died
> >were the _only_ experts on this type of steam engine around.
>
Was it the boiler that exploded or the fuel tank? Stories are unclear.
Joe Ellis
<cver...@home.com> wrote:
That's because the news people don't know what they're talking about.
There was oil all over, so of course they ASSUMED people were burned by
the oil... ignoring the fact that steam under high pressure (enough to
explode the boiler...) is superheated.
My best _guess_ is that the water level got low, and the pressure shot up.
The boiler blew and ruptured the fuel tank. Since there were cars around
the explosion covered in oil that _didn't_ burn, I doubt the oil was hot
enough to do the bulk of the burn damage cited among the injured.
They were just moving it into place for display, so someone may have
thought there was "enough" water to get there. Obviously, they were
wrong...
--
Joe Ellis € The Synthetic Filker TesserAct Studios
Please Note: ALL email from hotmail.com is deleted UNREAD
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Jon Miller
Only a few specialized reporters have any idea of what they are talking
about. It's a waste of time to read/view the stuff. If it's of interest it
will show up on this group<VBG>.
Trpersing
licenses these beasts? Or licenses the operators? It sounds like the operators
in this case had been doing this for quite a while, knew what they were doing
for the most part, and made a fatal error.
This may be the beginning of the end for seeing these things in operation. No
county fair is going to spring for the liability insurance to allow them to
continue to operate.
Ray
bpnjensen
> My best _guess_ is that the water level got low, and the pressure shot up.
> The boiler blew and ruptured the fuel tank. Since there were cars around
> the explosion covered in oil that _didn't_ burn, I doubt the oil was hot
> enough to do the bulk of the burn damage cited among the injured.
>
> They were just moving it into place for display, so someone may have
> thought there was "enough" water to get there. Obviously, they were
> wrong...
Are you implying that, somehow, the water level dove below the
critical level for the crown sheet (or tractor equivalent)? In this
case, even at normal pressure the sheet gets too hot and fragile to
contain the pressure and can rupture; this is not the same as simply
allowing the pressure up too much, which itself ought to be solved by
the safety valve.
Or, maybe years of stress on the old rivets finally just took their
toll...
Bruce Jensen
Roger T & Heather B
"bpnjensen"
> Are you implying that, somehow, the water level dove below the
> critical level for the crown sheet (or tractor equivalent
Unbelievably, even major North American railroads had catastrophic
boiler explosions as late as the 1950s due, I believe, to the lack of
fusible plugs in the crown sheet and, instead, placing a reliance on
mechanical "low water alarms".
This may have been yet another avoidable tragic accident.
Cheers
Roger T.
Dan L. Merkel
>
> Are you implying that, somehow, the water level dove below the
> critical level for the crown sheet (or tractor equivalent)? In this
> case, even at normal pressure the sheet gets too hot and fragile to
> contain the pressure and can rupture; this is not the same as simply
> allowing the pressure up too much, which itself ought to be solved by
> the safety valve.
>
> Or, maybe years of stress on the old rivets finally just took their
> toll...
>
> Bruce Jensen
Today's news is suggesting that a safety pressure valve may have
misfunctioned, causing the explosion.
Two of the people killed were the owner and his son. The older man and
one other gentleman were considered the "experts" on that particular
kind of tractor in that area.
It is indeed sad to see that kind of loss of life. As of today, at
least two others are still in critical condition at local hospitals.
dlm
--
Dan L. Merkel
bright.net-BRT
===== > > Your Local Link to the Internet in
Findlay and in Hancock County < < =====
Wayne Manzo
Medina, Ohio was the work of the "Alien Agency". Similar to what
happened
to the space shuttle Challenger and so many other lethal mysterious
accidents.
The Sunday July 7-29-2001 farm tractor explosion is very suspicious,
killing four people and injuring many.
The reason the accident stinks of "Alien Agency" is that the tractor
that blew-up wasn't a "John Deere", a "Ford", a "Catepillar", no,
it was a "CASE" tractor.
Of course this means nothing unless you are aware that there is a very
huge federal civil rights case brewing in this country that is the
first
case that exposes the "Alien Agency" and its Anti-American activity in
the United States. The case entangles the "NASA-Lewis Research Center,
Cleveland(about 25 miles North East of Medina), the U.S. Army
Propulsion Directorate and the U.S. Army Aviation System Command,
and the entertainment industry___and could also entangle the Clintons
since
it was their responsibility along with Janet Reno's to get this case
into
the federal courts and stop the defendants from further agressive acts
against the plaintiff.
A huge case that makes the "Tobacco Litigation" look like parking
ticket
violations.
From human slavery, censorship, and genocide___the case is all
American!
So, why all the bizare accidents and deaths.
Instead of litigating the case and throwing the defendants into the
federal
pokey, those of the "RACE" play some sort of "Game" where the only
result
is further concealment of the truth(the case) and very mysterious,
targeting
accidents.
When I was on the streets of New York city trying to find a law firm
interested
in my human rights case, there was an opera at Lincoln Center about
a legal case. During the opening show, as the opera singer portraying
a law
clerk climbed a fifteen foot ladder and opened a huge filing cabinet,
reaching in an grabing the file folder___he was stricken with a heart
attack and died.
Believe it or not!
mansue.com The Truth is There!
Thank you,
Wayne "Mulder" Manzo
Cincy, Ohio
Bob" <spammersdon'tbother-F...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message news:<_Ab97.76348$dd1.9...@typhoon.neo.rr.com>...
Roger T & Heather B
"Wayne Manzo"
> It would appear as if the steam engine explosion at the county fair
in
> Medina, Ohio was the work of the "Alien Agency". Similar to what
> happened
> to the space shuttle Challenger and so many other lethal mysterious
> accidents.
Ah, a conspiracy.
Where would Americans be without the "conspiracy theory" to solve
every high profile or complex event?
Please don't be offended but you have to admit that there's dozens
(Hundreds?) of "conspiracy theories" that surround almost every event
from the small, like this one, to the Kennedy assassination.
Cheers
Roger T.
Tank
and
licenses these beasts? Or licenses the operators?<
According to the talking heads, they are not required to be licensed in
Ohio because they are considered agricultural equipment. Hizzoner
the Guv was on the tube saying that may change.
>This may be the beginning of the end for seeing these things in operation.
No
county fair is going to spring for the liability insurance to allow them to
continue to operate.<
Important to note that the fair had not started, and it is unclear if they
had
entered the grounds. The fair people fell all over themselves stating that
it was not affiliated with the fair in any way.
--
Tim Bretz aka Tank
SB & LE RR - HO Scale
Chief
> (Hundreds?) of "conspiracy theories" that surround almost every event
> from the small, like this one, to the Kennedy assassination.
Wayne does a disservice by using terms like "Alien Agency" and with his
strange associations, but who knows maybe the tractor explosion was a
deliberate act and therefore a conspiracy of sorts. The Kennedy
assassination most certainly was.
Jon Miller
I have seen equipment running that is not licensed and was told the rules
are 10 psi and under is not considered a working boiler. Over 10 psi and it
must be inspected and licensed. Some pieces of equipment work very nicely
under 10 psi.
Someone who knows the rules exactly please comment here!
Ronald Herfurth
"Walt" <Wa...@Early.com> wrote in message news:3B654AFD...@Early.com...
> They mentioned on the radio that four people died. An investigation
> into the explosion will be difficult because the people who died
> were the _only_ experts on this type of steam engine around.
The first atticle i read named the 4 people who died but didn't say if
anyone of them was the owner, and it didn't say if the owner was dead or
alive.
typical of the press.
A subsequent article said the owner and his son were 2 of the 4 killed. I'm
still not sure who the other 2 were, There was some suggestion that at least
one was a policeman that was upset that the tractor had been driven under
steam down county roads.
typical of the press.
Aparantly some one commented the the person who knew the most about the
engine and would have the best idea of what failed, the owner, was killed so
no one could be sure right now what happened. The press translated "the only
expert on this particular steam engine" to "the only expert on this type of
steam engine".
typical of the press
I would guess that boiler inspectors will know the cause in a month or 2.
At the risk of being cynical, I wonder if the owner had insurance on the
engine or if his widow/estate is going to have to pay the claims. 4 dead,
thirty some wounded, this is going to big settlement. I bet the ambulance
chasers are having a field day. Of course after the amusement park accident
yesterday there will never be another word written in the press about the
explosion. typical of the press
Allen Drugge
"Chief" <little.b...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:fyB97.8$3A.6...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> > Please don't be offended but you have to admit that there's dozens
> > (Hundreds?) of "conspiracy theories" that surround almost every event
> > from the small, like this one, to the Kennedy assassination.
>
> Wayne does a disservice by using terms like "Alien Agency" and with his
> strange associations,
Most certainly, because what he ascribes as this "Alien Agency" is in
fact govt/Illuminati disinformation, just like their staged "alien abduction"
scenarios. Poor ol' Wayne is just a pawn in their attempts to scare
the rest of us from realizing the truth and yes he is being taken down
unfairly--but not by 'Aliens.'
> but who knows maybe the tractor explosion was a
> deliberate act and therefore a conspiracy of sorts.
On Saturday a 2 1/2 yr old boy by the name of Sam Medina was
crushed to death under a parade float in San Luis, CO and the next
day the steam engine explosion occured at the Medina County Fair.
Too coincidental to be an accident if you ask me.
> The Kennedy assassination most certainly was.
Don't think you'll too many who would argue that point with yeh.
ARD
T. E.
> Please don't be offended but you have to admit that there's dozens
> (Hundreds?) of "conspiracy theories" that surround almost every event
> from the small, like this one, to the Kennedy assassination.
What I want to know is, who put you up to posting that? Was it
the Illuminate, Masons, Catholics, Nazis, Communists, or Jews?
Chief
> fact govt/Illuminati disinformation, just like their staged "alien
abduction"
> scenarios. Poor ol' Wayne is just a pawn in their attempts to scare
> the rest of us from realizing the truth and yes he is being taken down
> unfairly--but not by 'Aliens.'
I'm still wondering if Wayne is for real. He seems to be but is evasive; of
course he might think that I'm one of the "Aliens". Can't see how from all
my posts. I have no knowledge of Wayne except from what I've read in his
posts and web site.
> On Saturday a 2 1/2 yr old boy by the name of Sam Medina was
> crushed to death under a parade float in San Luis, CO and the next
> day the steam engine explosion occured at the Medina County Fair.
>
> Too coincidental to be an accident if you ask me.
Well how do you determine the probability of such things. How many people
named Medina are there? How many people die accidentally everyday with the
last name being that of a County. And both were (assuming the event in CO
occurred) in a festive public setting. Off hand it does seem a bit odd but
is it? Of course there is a collective devil unconsciousness that is now
coming under the pressure of the net, so it is possible that some mentally
"possessed" person having heard of the first event made some insane
association and operated or influenced the engine operation to cause the
explosion.
Bob May
his Darwin Award by wiping out his progeny along with himself. My bet is
that he ran the water low and blew the crownsheet out the bottom. This is
supported by the position of the boiler relative to the rest of the tractor.
--
Bob May
Remember that computers do exactly what you tell them to do, not what you
think you told them to do.
Daniel A. Mitchell
about this steam engine? Someone claimed that ONLY the dead operators
knew about this particular engine. It appears to have been a regular
Case Traction engine. If so, MANY are still operating. Nothing special
about it at all.
I've seen a bunch of such 'farm' engines being operated in very 'sloppy'
manners. I'm not sure what regulations apply to them. Railroads are
closely regulated, and have to undergo regular inspections. Things got
even tighter after the Gettysburg RR explosion a few years ago. That
explosion was caused by the operators not following EXISTING
regulations. So, the new regulations won't work any better if they're
also ignored.
Dan Mitchell
==========
"." wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:54:37 -0400, Walt <Wa...@Early.com> wrote :
>
> >They mentioned on the radio that four people died. An investigation
> >into the explosion will be difficult because the people who died
> >were the _only_ experts on this type of steam engine around.
>
Roger T & Heather B
"T. E."
The "voices" in my head. :-)
Cheers
Roger T.
MacIndoe
Roger T & Heather B wrote:
>
Roger T & Heather B
"Daniel A. Mitchell" <
> I've seen a bunch of such 'farm' engines being operated in very
'sloppy'
> manners. I'm not sure what regulations apply to them. Railroads are
> closely regulated, and have to undergo regular inspections. Things
got
> even tighter after the Gettysburg RR explosion a few years ago. That
> explosion was caused by the operators not following EXISTING
> regulations. So, the new regulations won't work any better if
they're
> also ignored.
No but the mandatory provision of fusible plugs and water gauge glass
that are opened and closed by right angle stop cocks instead of
wheeled gate valves would be a step in the right direction.
Fusible plugs go a long way in avoiding catastrophic boiler failure,
in case of accidentally running low on water. Much safer and more
reliable than low water alarms which can and have been ignored in the
past. Right angled cocks on gauge glasses give a clear indication on
whether the valves are open or closed. This goes a long way in making
sure the crew know if they are seeing a true or false water level.
Yes, I know they still have to be opened in the correct sequence but
at least it removes the ambiguity of the wheel operated valve that
gives no clear indication of whether it's opened or closed.
Cheers
Roger T.
Chief
And the unbiased truth is better than both.
Allen Drugge
> > Most certainly, because what he ascribes as this "Alien Agency" is in
> > fact govt/Illuminati disinformation, just like their staged "alien
> abduction"
> > scenarios. Poor ol' Wayne is just a pawn in their attempts to scare
> > the rest of us from realizing the truth and yes he is being taken down
> > unfairly--but not by 'Aliens.'
>
> I'm still wondering if Wayne is for real. He seems to be but is evasive; of
> course he might think that I'm one of the "Aliens". Can't see how from all
> my posts. I have no knowledge of Wayne except from what I've read in his
> posts and web site.
Well, neither do I but he's been at it for such a length of time that I have no
reason to doubt him--except for his interprepation of who/what's behind
his problems.
> > On Saturday a 2 1/2 yr old boy by the name of Sam Medina was
> > crushed to death under a parade float in San Luis, CO and the next
> > day the steam engine explosion occured at the Medina County Fair.
> >
> > Too coincidental to be an accident if you ask me.
>
> Well how do you determine the probability of such things. How many people
> named Medina are there? How many people die accidentally everyday with the
> last name being that of a County. And both were (assuming the event in CO
> occurred) in a festive public setting.
I picked up on the San Luis event off the UPI wires on Saturday so when
the steam engine explosion story came across Sunday there was an
immediate 'aha!'
> Off hand it does seem a bit odd but
> is it? Of course there is a collective devil unconsciousness that is now
> coming under the pressure of the net, so it is possible that some mentally
> "possessed" person having heard of the first event made some insane
> association and operated or influenced the engine operation to cause the
> explosion.
That's one possible scenario.
Wayne Manzo
yet you fail to recognize what you are saying.
My point is that the "Alien Agency" has the technology to
kill at will and make it look like accidents, diseases, or
violent crime. Like Orwell's book "1984", Big Brother "Alien Agency"
kills in order to send encrypted messages via the media.
Remember, those of the alien race are all telepaths and don't use
the conventional media to distribute information. The news media
is used to send encoded messages concerning the "inner system"
and that system controls our human society and what we interpret
as reality.
There are about 350 million people in the United States. About half
of those are illegal "Alien Agency" whose names and SS cards
are meaningless in their society. They change names and SS numbers
like you change underware. That leaves about 150 to 175 million
human Americans, an most of them don't understand that they are living
with alien savages whose culture consists of the systematic extermination
of, yeah, you guessed it, human beings.
Big Brother "Alien Agency" controls all media, information sources,
and information distribution. So why not re-read your posting and
think about it! Then think about it again. They are here, they
control the human infrastructure, and they are systematically
killing human beings.
If you need more info try and access my investigative news magazines.
If you are human it may save your life.
A "Case" Tractor? Safety valve failure? This would have occured when
the tractor was being fired-up! The boiler would have over-pressured
and it would have been shut-down immediately. No, this was the work
of the "Alien Agency". It was an "Alien Ageny" hit used to send a message!
And, the murders will continue as long as the human race refuses to
look the aliens in the face and start investigating their existence and
agenda.
Thank you,
Wayne "Mulder" Manzo
http://mansue.com
"Allen Drugge" <adr...@uswest.net> wrote in message news:<uTC97.1290$YJ3.1...@news.uswest.net>...
Roger T & Heather B
"Wayne Manzo"
> You solve the so called conspiracy theory using your own words
> yet you fail to recognize what you are saying.
Aliens????????
Yawn.
Cheers
Roger T.
Joe Ellis
wares...@yahoo.com (Wayne Manzo) wrote:
>You solve the so called conspiracy theory
Good grief. He's _serious!_
Well that's what killfiles are for. <<PLONK>>
Jeff Scarbrough
wrote:
I don't know exactly, but one of my colleagues has a steam tractor in
Ohio that he can't bring to Georgia because of the inspection issue.
I recall him saying that it didn't need inspection, or at least a
rigorous one, in Ohio...
Jeff "single-handed" Scarbrough Proud Charter Member
Athens, Georgia CEO and Section Gang, Piedmont and Southern Railroad
je...@negia.net http://members.home.net/p-srr/
http://serr.railfan.net http://smrf.railfan.net/SMRF
Chief
> kill at will and make it look like accidents, diseases, or
> violent crime. Like Orwell's book "1984", Big Brother "Alien Agency"
> kills in order to send encrypted messages via the media.
Yes people can use information against you, and stage accidents. That's why
privacy is so important.
> Remember, those of the alien race are all telepaths and don't use
> the conventional media to distribute information. The news media
> is used to send encoded messages concerning the "inner system"
> and that system controls our human society and what we interpret
> as reality.
There is no such thing as telepaths. However some people have higher rates
of verbal associativity. In fact most people acquire these abilities over
time, and more. The problem may be actually lowering yourself to understand
the childishness of those around you. Would you trouble yourself to
understand street gang slang.
Mark Mathu
> The first atticle i read named the 4 people who died but didn't say if
> anyone of them was the owner, and it didn't say if the owner was dead or
> alive.
> typical of the press.
Maybe, just maybe, there was some confusion abounding when the first reports
were filed? Have you thought about that?
Frank A. Rosenbaum
--
Frank R.
Note New EMAIL address: faros...@mediaone.net
The train club I belong to is the Gratiot Valley. See us at:
http://chives.michvhf.com/~gvrr/index.htm
+-------------------------+
| DO NOT FEED |
| THE TROLLS |
+-----------+-+---------+
| |
| |
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If at first you don't succeed, throw it in the spare parts box.
Thanks to Lindy9113
EBTBOB <ebt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010730065247...@mb-mh.aol.com...
> Good Morning All,
>
> There is an article in the morning newspaper here near Philly, that
says
> there was a steam engine explosion in Medina, Ohio yesterday, July 29th.
> There was no mention as to whether this was a railroad steam engine or
not. My
> first thought is that it was not a rail steam engine because the article
said
> it was being moved into position at a county fair. Does anyone know
anything
> else?
>
> Bob
Andy Harman
<little.b...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>Wayne does a disservice by using terms like "Alien Agency" and with his
>strange associations, but who knows maybe the tractor explosion was a
>deliberate act and therefore a conspiracy of sorts. The Kennedy
>assassination most certainly was.
I don't have much use for the word "disservice". It's a stupid word.
Sometimes stuff is just plain bullshit and should be called that :-)
As to Kennedy, there are few established facts. John F. Kennedy, as
well as Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby, are dead. About everything
else (incuding a very voluminous government study of the time) is
opinion.
Andy
----------------------------------------------------
Please reply to aharman at hhcustom dot com
Visit the RPM Web Page at http://www.rpmrail.org
Or my personal site at http://www.hhcustom.com/nspmg
----------------------------------------------------
Chief
> well as Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby, are dead. About everything
> else (incuding a very voluminous government study of the time) is
> opinion.
Let's see, all other facts aside, the President gets shot driving in a
motorcade by a supposed lone gunman at a distance from a tall building, then
the gunman gets shot dead himself. Yeah, happens everyday, no conspiracy
here. Now if you examine the evidence and have even the slightest ability
to reason in math and science you come to the almost inescapable conclusion
there was another shooter. That may be an opinion as far as the courts are
concerned but it's a fact to most reasonable people.
Allen Drugge
'Alien Agency' are govt/illuminati black ops using recovered Alien
technology so as to give the real Aliens a bad rap?
The LORD (ruler of the Universe) has been frustrating the Bavarian Illuminati
from its inception begining in 1785 when he struck down one of their
couriers by the name of Jacob Lanze with a lightning bolt while traveling
thru Regensburg, Germany. The Illuminati have every reason in the book
to want to make mankind mistrust our benefactor.
So, admitting the above to be true, doesn't your insistence on an 'Alien
Agency' play right into the hands of the Illuminati agenda?
You know the story of Ajax the Greater, right?
I haven't figured out yet whether you are a witting or unwitting
disinformationalist, but I will.
ARD
"Wayne Manzo" <wares...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ca63f034.01073...@posting.google.com...
American
(Andy Harman) wrote:
> As to Kennedy, there are few established facts. John F. Kennedy, as
> well as Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby, are dead. About everything
> else (incuding a very voluminous government study of the time) is
> opinion.
Read "Coup d'Etat in America," by Weberman and Canfield, and "Plausible
Denial," by Mark Lane...it's been photographed and adjudicated: E. Howard
Hunt and the CIA did it.
They did it because they work for papal banker Rockefeller and Rome.
--
Novus Ordo Seclorum:The New Secular Order
Joe Ellis
(American) wrote:
TRIM THE FREAKING GROUPS, people!!!
Joe Ellis
<little.b...@prodigy.net> wrote:
TRIM THE DAMN GROUPS!!
Trew
> My point is that the "Alien Agency" has the technology to
> kill at will and make it look like accidents, diseases, or
> violent crime. Like Orwell's book "1984", Big Brother "Alien Agency"
> kills in order to send encrypted messages via the media.
and I thought I don't get out much....
--
Tim Trewhella
tr...@bestweb.net
Visit http://www.bestweb.net/trains
Roger T & Heather B
"Trew" <tr...@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:3B6794DE...@bestweb.net...
> Wayne Manzo wrote:
>
> > My point is that the "Alien Agency" has the technology to
> > kill at will and make it look like accidents, diseases, or
> > violent crime. Like Orwell's book "1984", Big Brother "Alien
Agency"
> > kills in order to send encrypted messages via the media.
>
> and I thought I don't get out much....
All this twaddle just proves that you can make a conspiracy, proof of
alien contact and proof of just about anything by finding links,
however tenuous, out of any completely unrelated links.
If I tried, I could "prove" that the geographical alignment of the Taj
Mahal, Buckingham Palace, the White House, the pyramids and Stone
Henge are all "proof" that we've been visited by aliens. I bet I
could even get on Art Bell and "prove" it there.
Some people will believe anything.
Cheers
Roger T.
Jim Stewart
Chief <little.b...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3RK97.456$lG5.86...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
Not only that, everyone involved in investigating the death of Lincoln has
died also.
Jim Stewart
Rich
has with this conspiracy theory crap. Have you ever heard of just plan
ole Human Error? Geeez
Now to another subject that is in line with the original post. I hope
Jay Leno pays attention to this steam engine catastrophe. He owns a
Stanley Steamer. I saw him demonstrate it on My Classic Car show. What
an amazing piece of technology for the time. I think he said top speed
was 125 mph. But be careful when you have to slam on the brakes since
there isn't any! In order for him to get this thing running he had to
turn all kinds of valves. I just hope he read the operating manual
carefully.
Rich
Kennedy
> Ah, a conspiracy.
>
> Where would Americans be without the "conspiracy theory" to solve
> every high profile or complex event?
>
> Please don't be offended but you have to admit that there's dozens
> (Hundreds?) of "conspiracy theories" that surround almost every event
> from the small, like this one, to the Kennedy assassination.
I'm still here!
:D
Kennedy
--
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Dan L. Merkel
>
> Yep on all counts. Another arrogant ass who thinks rules are for
> others got his Darwin Award by wiping out his progeny along with
> himself. My bet is that he ran the water low and blew the crownsheet
Not so sure that I'd use the term "arrogant ass." Nonetheless, a report
on the radio today suggested that the movement of the tractor onto the
fiargrounds may have caused water to slosh into a super hot portion of
the boiler causing a sudden burst of steam pressure. No one has said
anything about the safety valve, the low water indicator or anything
else at this point in the investigation.
dlm
--
Dan L. Merkel
bright.net-BRT
===== > > Your Local Link to the Internet in
Findlay and in Hancock County < < =====
Dan L. Merkel
>
> I'm pretty sure that "Alien Agency" thing was a joke.
Considering that four people died, two others are still critical and
scores of others were injured to some degree, it was a very poor joke.
How someone could make light of such a tragedy is beyond me.
Daniel A. Mitchell
crownsheet was exposed, or nearly exposed, and the tractor was moved,
sloshing water could act as you describe. Either the water could slosh OFF
the crownsheet, allowing it to overheat and possibly fail, or , if already
overheated (but not failed), the water sloshing ON to the crownsheet could
cause failure by thermal shock. Bad news either way!
Crownsheet failure is probably the most likely mode of failure, until we
know more. Other possibilities (as have been mentioned) include: An
inoperative safety valve (you should always check the pressure gauge ...
assuming THAT's working)! An unexpected failure of some boiler seam or
plate. Failure of a boiler flue, or fluesheet. Failure of several staybolts
(sometimes a 'cascade' event). Most of these can be made vanishingly
unlikely by good maintenace, proper inspections, and proper attention of
the operator.
I've never seen a stream traction engine with a 'low water alarm' (as often
fitted on later steam locos). Traction engines depend on sight glasses
and/or tricocks ... and a vigilant operator!
But, I also agree that's too early to call the deceased operator an
"arrogant ass" ... not enough facts yet.
Dan Mitchell
==========
Chief
I think many are just afraid of thinking.
Chief
Are you making fun of my sex organs.
Roger T & Heather B
"Kennedy (no longer not on The Haggis!)"
> > Please don't be offended but you have to admit that there's dozens
> > (Hundreds?) of "conspiracy theories" that surround almost every
event
> > from the small, like this one, to the Kennedy assassination.
>
> I'm still here!
>
> :D
Touché. :-)
How's Elvis doing?
Cheers
Roger T.
Roger T & Heather B
"Dan L. Merkel"
> Not so sure that I'd use the term "arrogant ass." Nonetheless, a
report
> on the radio today suggested that the movement of the tractor onto
the
> fiargrounds may have caused water to slosh into a super hot portion
of
> the boiler causing a sudden burst of steam pressure. No one has
said
> anything about the safety valve, the low water indicator or anything
> else at this point in the investigation.
If this is true, a couple of fusible plugs would have prevented this
tragedy.
Cheers
Roger T.
Roger T & Heather B
"Daniel A. Mitchell"
> No part of the boiler is SUPPOSED to get that hot! However, if the
> crownsheet was exposed, or nearly exposed, and the tractor was
moved,
> sloshing water could act as you describe. Either the water could
slosh OFF
> the crownsheet, allowing it to overheat and possibly fail, or , if
already
> overheated (but not failed), the water sloshing ON to the crownsheet
could
> cause failure by thermal shock. Bad news either way!
What can one say but "Fusable plugs".
> Crownsheet failure is probably the most likely mode of failure,
until we
> know more.
"Fusable plugs".
> I've never seen a stream traction engine with a 'low water alarm'
(as often
> fitted on later steam locos). Traction engines depend on sight
glasses
> and/or tricocks ... and a vigilant operator!
Don't forget fusible plugs.
It boggles the mind that fusible plugs and two sight glasses, forget
try cocks, they're easily susceptible to blockage, are not mandatory
on North American traction engine and locomotive boilers.
Cheers
Roger T.
bpnjensen
> "bpnjensen"
>
> > Are you implying that, somehow, the water level dove below the
> > critical level for the crown sheet (or tractor equivalent
>
> Unbelievably, even major North American railroads had catastrophic
> boiler explosions as late as the 1950s due, I believe, to the lack of
> fusible plugs in the crown sheet and, instead, placing a reliance on
> mechanical "low water alarms".
Yepp - I think I recall an incidence on a tourist RR in Pennsy just a
few years ago, in fact, in which an engineer and fireman, not paying
adequate attention to the water level in the boiler going uphill, blew
themselves out going downhill when the crown sheet became uncovered.
One of them was killed, the other badly burned; I think a few
passengers were lightly injured. They may have been using nothing but
the glass or trycocks (and maybe even the latter were not used
enough).
> This may have been yet another avoidable tragic accident.
If it's a crown sheet problem, it certainly is.
You conspiracy theory guys? Sheesh, get a life...
Bruce Jensen
Gian Uberto Lauri
E> Good Morning All, There is an article in the morning newspaper here
E> near Philly, that says there was a steam engine explosion in
E> Medina, Ohio yesterday, July 29th.
From the televised picture it seemed a farming engine.
--
Gian Uberto| main(){printf(&unix["\021%six\012\0"],(unix)["have"]+"fun"-0x60);}
Lauri | David Korn, 1987 ioccc best one liner
(aka saint)|-------------------------------------------------------------------
em@ail: sa...@eng.it ( vedere X-nospam nello header - see X-nospam in header )
Hugh
> I'm pretty sure that "Alien Agency" thing was a joke.
>
> Roger T & Heather B wrote:
> >
> > "Wayne Manzo"
> >
> > > It would appear as if the steam engine explosion at the county fair
> > in
> > > Medina, Ohio was the work of the "Alien Agency". Similar to what
> > > happened
> > > to the space shuttle Challenger and so many other lethal mysterious
> > > accidents.
> >
> > Ah, a conspiracy.
> >
> > Where would Americans be without the "conspiracy theory" to solve
> > every high profile or complex event?
> >
> > Please don't be offended but you have to admit that there's dozens
> > (Hundreds?) of "conspiracy theories" that surround almost every event
> > from the small, like this one, to the Kennedy assassination.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Roger T.
Nope not if it was from Wayne it wasnt , LOL
Jon Miller
I wish to do some experiments with muscle wire for rr purposes. I need
to do a minimum order of $50. I don't need that much and would like to
split the order with other interested parties. You can go to the Dynally
site and see some information. Cost for the wire is $5.00/meter.
Interested parties please send private email and not to the list.
http://www.dynalloy.com/
Andy Harman
Rockefeller is behind Paypal as well? ;-)
Don't mind me, I'm just Roming around Poping fun at all the theories.
As for this Rocky feller, anybody know what his feedback rating is?
Walt
would think that water sloshing would be normal and expected.
Walt
is BIG bucks these days. :)
Ronald Herfurth wrote:
>
> At the risk of being cynical, I wonder if the owner had insurance on the
> engine or if his widow/estate is going to have to pay the claims. 4 dead,
> thirty some wounded, this is going to big settlement. I bet the ambulance
> chasers are having a field day.
Bob May
that he ran the engine on the road (violation of the law for metal wheels),
it was a new rebuild of the engine, the crown sheet gave way and other
things. You could also consider him a "total idiot" for not knowing how to
run the tractor in the first place.
The big thing is that the crown sheet gave way and that generally only
happens if the boiler is run dry to the point where the crown sheet is
uncovered. The land in the area is pretty flat so it's not really a problem
of the boiler suddenly getting tilted by very much. On top of all that, the
man should have taught his son the problems involved in handling the boiler
so that there would be a second person available to maintain the tractor's
operation if the primary operator is otherwise occupied. The owner should
have also insured that the cop knew of the risks involved in the operation
of the boiler and killed the fire if the cop was nasty.
Boilers are very dangerous things when you don't keep them properly fed but
the feeding is very easy to do and the procedure for problems that get out
of hand is to kill the fire and fix the problem.
As a result, take your choice "arrogant ass" or "total idiot".
--
Bob May
Remember that computers do exactly what you tell them to do, not what you
think you told them to do.
Dennis E. Golden
Andy Harman wrote:
> I don't have much use for the word "disservice". It's a stupid word.
> Sometimes stuff is just plain bullshit and should be called that :-)
>
Well said, Andy.
Den
Jeff Scarbrough
Harman) wrote:
>>>They did it because they work for papal banker Rockefeller and Rome.
>
>Rockefeller is behind Paypal as well? ;-)
>
>Don't mind me, I'm just Roming around Poping fun at all the theories.
>As for this Rocky feller, anybody know what his feedback rating is?
Isn't Rocky that Great Northern goat?
We miss ya, Big, we really do...
Jeff Scarbrough
<roge...@islandnet.com> wrote:
>
>"Daniel A. Mitchell"
>
>> No part of the boiler is SUPPOSED to get that hot! However, if the
>> crownsheet was exposed, or nearly exposed, and the tractor was
>moved,
>> sloshing water could act as you describe. Either the water could
>slosh OFF
>> the crownsheet, allowing it to overheat and possibly fail, or , if
>already
>> overheated (but not failed), the water sloshing ON to the crownsheet
>could
>> cause failure by thermal shock. Bad news either way!
>
>What can one say but "Fusable plugs".
>
>> Crownsheet failure is probably the most likely mode of failure,
>until we
>> know more.
My steam traction buddy from Ohio says probably crown sheet and low
water. He said the fusible plug might have been covered with scale,
insulating it somewhat...but the safety valve could never hold in the
face of that much pressure over time. So, sounds like an instant
event caused the catastophe...and apparently Ohio has no regular
inspection requirement for hobby engines or farm equipment.
A sad day for steam fans everywhere.
JS
Ga.
Wayne Manzo
Get some "FAA" guys to investigate the accident!
They know all about the "Agency"! And make sure
the idiots from the "Rogers Commission" don't come
anywhere near the accident scene or tractor debri!
Wayne "Mulder" Manzo,
Yeah, it looks like an accident but it ain't!
a "CASE" tractor! Geeeeeesssss!
Man are you guys stupid!
bpnj...@yahoo.com (bpnjensen) wrote in message news:<37af7e1c.01080...@posting.google.com>...
Mark Mathu
> Crownsheet failure is probably the most likely mode of failure, until we
> know more.
The Cleveland Plain Dealer is making it sound like investigators are indeed
looking at a crown plate explosion.
Steam Engine Shot 15 Feet Into Air, Investigators Say
http://www.cleveland.com/medina/plaindealer/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_stan
dard.xsl?/base/medina/9966582131382551.xml
"[Medina Sgt. Scott Thomas] said the historical machine, which jerked when it
backed up, may have exploded when the motion suddenly sloshed water on a hot
sheet of metal known as the crown plate."
The problem is, it sounds like the operator should have known better.
"[Steam engine expert Bill] Kennedy, a founding member of the LaGrange Engine
Club, said [Clifford] Kovacic knew he had to keep water in the boiler above
the firebox because he had two water injection valves instead of one.
"'In case one failed,' he explained.
"[Sheriff's Detective John] Detchon, who consulted with Dean Jagger, the
state's chief boiler inspector, said Kovacic might have gotten a false reading
from a glass-tube gauge designed to tell him the water level.
"Or the gauge could have been plugged."
Kennedy
Good! He stopped and said Hi! on his way to Kalamazoo.....
Daniel A. Mitchell
HAD BEEN, for some time. The injector was also inoperable. Classic case of poor maintenance and bad operating
practice, in violation of existing rules.
In this instance the crownsheet or this late model CP boiler failed 'progressively' (kind'a like a zipper) as it
had been designed to do. There was NO explosion, just a massive steam leak into the firebox. The locomotive was
relatively undamaged, aside from the crownsheet. While the cab crew were severly injured, one fataly, the
incident lacked the violent consequences of a boiler explosion, and the passengers were not injured.
Dan Mitchell
==========
none
"Chief" <little.b...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:dIU97.295$vB.94...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> > Plonk? Why? Are you afraid of "bad thoughts"?
>
> I think many are just afraid of thinking.
>
very good at it.
Dan O'Connor
> Often it's worse than that - some people are very fond of thinking,
but not
> very good at it.
Oh, man. What a great quote! Too bad Mr. "None" didn't identify himself.
:-(
-- Dan
David Owens
ignorance of people who demand expertise from news reporters, but then
blather on themselves about something they know nothing about. The
comment Mark Mathu made below is dead-on. There was more than likely
enormous confusion after this incident -- and I mean hours after this
incident.
People who read newspapers -- intelligent people that is -- expect
news in the morning or afternoon paper. Reporters rely upon the best
information they can get and in an evolving situation that information
is sometimes unclear or incorrect. We continue to collect the best
infomration until a true picture emerges. That can take days. That's
not because someone doesn't care about getting the correct information
in the first place or because they are careless, but because the
officials in charge of a scene -- police officers, firefighters, other
government officials -- sometimes disseminate bad information. Again,
that's not because they are bad people or doing their jobs poorly.
IT's just that all the answers are rarely available immediately. And
newspapers simply can't wait the month or longer it takes to complete
an investigation. (To the morons who say we ought to , there's nothing
I can say to you. You're simply too stupid to reason with.)
I am a newspaper reporter (a railfan and HO modeler too) and I
covered an explosion last week at a swimming pool supply facility.
Water mixed with a lot of swimming pool chlorine. It began to smoke,
burn, then exploded. Thank God no one was killed, but there was
swimming pool chlorine everywhere -- people are being told not to eat
vegetables from their gardens and the fire department and a cleanup
contractor have been hosing off buildings and lawns and trees for
days. We worked hard all day the day of the blast and into the evening
to ensure every bit of information we had was correct. We ended up
having to write a correction because the head of the Department of
Public Health toxics bureau gave us the wrong identification on the
chemical that had been blown all over town.
Now some nitwit out there will yell at me about some reason I
should have known not to trust this guy, but the fact of the matter is
that collecting and disseminating news is done by humans and humans
aren't perfect. (I'll exclude from that statement some of the experts
on this list who seem to have all the answers and who get ALL of their
information the via the Internet. There's no talking to you guys.)
Rant mode off.
Kindest regards to all,
Dave Owens
Modeling the Reading in the land of the New Haven (when he's not
scrubbing chlorine off his car.)
"Mark Mathu" <ma...@mathu.com> wrote in message news:<9k7nuu$ck5$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>...
> Ronald Herfurth wrote...
>
> > The first atticle i read named the 4 people who died but didn't say if
> > anyone of them was the owner, and it didn't say if the owner was dead or
> > alive.
> > typical of the press.
>
>
> Maybe, just maybe, there was some confusion abounding when the first reports
> were filed? Have you thought about that?
Jon Miller
Here is the problem I as a reader see and why I don't take newspapers.
>We continue to collect the best information until a true picture emerges.
That can take days<
Depending on the incident 3 inch headlines and thirty two column inches,
of which probably half is wrong, in the first edition possible. It's not
your fault (you are not an expert on everything), I know you do the best you
can. As the days go by and real information becomes available, where is it.
Last page, one column inch if that. Just the realities of the media, yes I
know that, reason I don't buy it.
anonym
none <no...@all.com> wrote in message
news:3b697231$1...@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
Then some peoples just have teh Brains in Training. : )
anonym
Dan O'Connor <dan[at]ferrarishields.com> wrote in message
news:3b699...@news.greatbasin.net...
none is his/her name. : )
David Owens
papers (why do you call your self a reader?) your analysis is, ahem,
flawed.
Kindest regards,
Dave Owens
"Jon Miller" <at...@inow.com> wrote in message news:<tmj98ur...@corp.supernews.com>...
S C Sillato
: On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:26:02 GMT, aha...@diespammerdie.net (Andy
: Harman) wrote:
No...that's Rocky of Moose and Squirrel....
: We miss ya, Big, we really do...
Ain't it the truth.....
--
Steve Sillato
Forty is the old age of youth; fifty the youth of old age.
Jon Miller
don't read them occasionally.
It's been about 3/4 days since the explosion. Name me a paper that
covered the explosion on the front page. Tell me the amount of space and
type. Now tell me where the follow up is in that same paper 3/4 days out.
Hopefully it's (the paper) available on the web and I will check.
Harry Wilkins
http://www.medina-gazette.com/
Check it out. I won't try quoting the space and type but it did EXACTLY what
you asked from day one until this mornings edition (I get the paper copy too and
live about a half mile from where the explosion occurred).
Jon Miller
paper. Not at all what I am used to. Papers in my area do not seem to have
that type of follow up but then it's something that happen a long ways away.
As an example a paper in my area will say (front page) so and so was
shot last night. Maybe a few column inches of random data. If you check
the next day to see if the person was alive, why they were shot, etc. nary a
word. Just the Midwest vs the large populated area I guess.
David Owens
not sure I understand the original question. The local paper seems to
have given the story front page coverage for several days.
What other paper would you expect to continue to give it front page
coverage? News is ever-changing and what is deemed to be the most
important group of stories changes. Something like a war would
probably be on page one relatively consistently.
Page 1 is usually reserved for the most important news of the day.
A horrible accident that occurred a week ago probably no longer meets
that standard.
Something like a local tragedy would probably remain on the front
page for a few days, then move to the front of a local section or
inside pages as more and more days pass.
That's normal. What's the grievance. And why should a newspaper
1,500 miles from a local tragedy continue to carry it on page 1 for
days or weeks on end.
I don't know where you live Jon. If you could tell me about your
local newspaper, or the newspaper you read most frequently, I could
perhaps answer your question better.
I can tell you about my own experience with the explosion I just
covered. The story remained on page 1 for two days, then moved to the
second page of our state section on the third day. It is now confined
to the local news pages, where it belongs.
When the explosion fire occurred it was of wide interest. As the
days passed, the widest interest was among the people closest to the
explosion site.
I'll be away from the computer for a week, but would be happy to
discuss this further if you wish. We could also take this to email and
spare everyone else.
Dave
Harry Wilkins <hwil...@ohio.net> wrote in message news:<3B6B18EB...@ohio.net>...
Trew
>
> FYI
> http://www.medina-gazette.com/
This is an amazing example of small-town American journalism at it's
finest... They jumped on the story but never forgot their connection to
the community.
This guy is twice the reporter of any of those famous suits you see on
the tube sunday mornings, check it out:
http://www.medina-gazette.com/aug/08012001/news1.htm#B
--
Tim Trewhella
tr...@bestweb.net
Visit http://www.bestweb.net/trains
Trew
> I don't know where you live Jon. If you could tell me about your
> local newspaper, or the newspaper you read most frequently, I could
> perhaps answer your question better.
If you go back and read the July 30 issue of the Medina County paper,
there's some really nice work- Good spot reporting that makes it clear
that they are giving you all they have at the time but that it's too
soon to tell. Major papers don't bother to do that with "local" stories
like this because they now they won't be coming back to them. The AP
probably doesn't even have it's own stringers in the area and just
relied on whatever reports came in from the reporters from Columbus and
Cincinnati, who probably couldn't even find their way to the fair
without a road map.
Let me tell you about the paper in my town... it's a weekly, about 48
pages (4 of news, 16 of sports and 2 of editorials and letters). It has
an editorial policy of stressing the positive aspects of the community
and reflecting the values of it's readers, and because of that doesn't
bother to run a regular police blotter or carry crime stories. Although
it advertises itself as my "hometown paper" it's headquartered in a
executive office park 40 minutes from here, and is owned by a company in
Atlanta. We did have a real home town paper here once, but then
merchants kept getting unmatchable offers on advertising, and now it's
gone. What's left is a inefficient vehicle for selling advertising that
the parent company will dump as soon as the quarterly report shows a
loss and a focus group can be organized to show what will work better.
This probably describes your home town paper too. What a damn shame.
Ernie Fisch
> This is an amazing example of small-town American journalism at it's
> finest... They jumped on the story but never forgot their connection to
> the community.
> This guy is twice the reporter of any of those famous suits you see on
> the tube sunday mornings, check it out:
Yes, but it also shows some of the problems with reporting.
The article talks about a cast iron boiler. I don't know about
you but if I heard that someone was about to fire up a cast
iron boiler I would be three counties away. It makes a lousy
pressure vessel. This kind of stuff makes me distrust the
whole article. Maybe that is what one of the experts said but
it is wrong and should not be reported.
--
ernie fisch
demetre_argiro
wrote:
>If I tried, I could "prove" that the geographical alignment of the Taj
>Mahal, Buckingham Palace.............
Interesting that you should bring that up. Especially since you don't believe it
yourself and were not prompted to do so by anyone else. That, in itself, is amazing.
The Taj Mahal ( Tomb of Mahal) was built by Shah Jahan (then Prince Khurram), the
fifth mughal emperor, in Agara India in 1612 as a memorial to, and a tomb for, his
deceased wife Arjumand Banu Begam, better known by her other name , Mumtaz Mahal.
Buckingham Palace was constructed in London, England 91 years later in, 1703, by John
Sheffield, 1st duke of Buckingham and Normandy, The palace was purchased for the
royal family in 1761 by George III. It has been the official town residence of the
British monarch since 1837.
While there is seemingly no connection whatever between these two structures, closer
examination on a map will reveal that they are capable of being connected by a
single, perfectly straight line !
If that is not proof positive, then what do you need ?
--
Demetre [argi...@mindspring.com] Argiro
Jim Stewart
<Demetre Argiro> wrote in message
news:3b6cb58e...@news.mindspring.com...
Actually it takes an arc. A straight line would be through the earth's
mantle.
You will note that they were both built by operative masons.
Jim Stewart
Roger T & Heather B
> > While there is seemingly no connection whatever between these two
> structures, closer
> > examination on a map will reveal that they are capable of being
connected
> by a
> > single, perfectly straight line !
> >
> > If that is not proof positive, then what do you need ?
>
earth's
> mantle.
> You will note that they were both built by operative masons.
Do not both these posts prove my point?
Cheers
Roger T.
Steve Magee
Buckingham Palace has exaxtly twice the number of letters as the Taj
Mahal, but is located on half the area. Surely only aliens understand
an inverse?
Sheffield and Shah Jahan both have the same number of letters. Can
this be coincidence?
Have you investigated the mathematical equation necessary to define
their respective distance from the equator? And that BOTH are in the
Northern Hemisphere?
Or that if a game of cricket were played in both places, a batsman
could be given out Leg Before Wicket in both!!!
And you maintain there is no extra-terrestrial involvement? Tush!!!
Steve Magee
(All evidence not supporting this claim has been modified to fit)
:)
Rich
Hmm, what was it last week? : P
MacIndoe
Demetre, Argiro wrote:
>
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:53:30 -0700, "Roger T & Heather B" <roge...@islandnet.com>
> wrote:
> The Taj Mahal ( Tomb of Mahal) was built by Shah Jahan (then Prince Khurram), the
> fifth mughal emperor, in Agara India in 1612 as a memorial to, and a tomb for, his
> deceased wife Arjumand Banu Begam, better known by her other name , Mumtaz Mahal.
It's Agra, not Agara
> While there is seemingly no connection whatever between these two structures, closer
> examination on a map will reveal that they are capable of being connected by a
> single, perfectly straight line !
The earth is a sphere, so no three things on the surface can be
connected with a straight line.
> If that is not proof positive, then what do you need ?
I need another beer. Now how 'bout those Moguls?
> --
> Demetre [argi...@mindspring.com] Argiro
demetre_argiro
>
>
>Demetre, Argiro wrote:
>It's Agra, not Agara
Right, Agra. typo........sorry
>The earth is a sphere, so no three things on the surface can be
>connected with a straight line.
Two, not three. Taj Mahal and Buckingham Palace.
Straight line on a map, great circle on the actual surface of the earth, but I can't
draw a line there. It's too big and too far
>I need another beer. Now how 'bout those Moguls?
I have some J.W. Dundee's. Want one? Which company was the biggest operator of
C.L.Zeni
You keep revealing secrets like these and you'll be getting a visit from
the boys in the black helicopters...
Reactionary Hideout
Nawth Cacalacky
demetre_argiro
>
>
><Demetre Argiro> wrote in message
>> examination on a map will reveal that they are capable of being connected
>>by a single, perfectly straight line !
>Actually it takes an arc. A straight line would be through the earth's
>mantle.
True Jim. Straight line on a map, great circle on the Earth's surface. Only I can't
draw a line on the Earth's surface, it's too big and too far and there's all kinds of
other stuff in the way..........:-))
--
Demetre [argi...@mindspring.com] Argiro
demetre_argiro
wrote:
>Do not both these posts prove my point?
>
>Cheers
>Roger T.
You DO purchase and read the tabloids at the supermarket don't you? All this
information and knowledge is contained therein. Everyone should educate himself
about these things, they're important:-))
--
Demetre [argi...@mindspring.com] Argiro
Joe Ellis
<ste...@ceet.niu.edu> wrote:
><Demetre Argiro> wrote in message
>news:3b6cb58e...@news.mindspring.com...
>> On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:53:30 -0700, "Roger T & Heather B"
><roge...@islandnet.com>
<<snip>>
>>
>> While there is seemingly no connection whatever between these two
>> structures, closer examination on a map will reveal that they are
>> capable of being connected by a single, perfectly straight line !
>> If that is not proof positive, then what do you need ?
>> --
>> Demetre [argi...@mindspring.com] Argiro
>
>Actually it takes an arc. A straight line would be through the earth's
>mantle. You will note that they were both built by operative masons.
>
>Jim Stewart
Heh heh heh... and _you_ might note that his statement that they are
capable of being connected by a single straight line does not anywhere
imply that the line has to be on the earth's surface... Rather, simply
that they exist in the same space-time. <<wink>>
--
--
Joe Ellis € CEO Bethlehem-Ares Railroad
___a________n_mmm___mmm_mmm_mmm___mmm_mmm_mmm___mmm_n______
___|8 8B| ___ /::::: / /::::X/ /:::::/ /:::::/||
||__BARR| | | /::::::/ /:::::X /:::::/ /:::::/ ||
----------------------------------------------------------------
[(=)=(=)=(=)=(=)]|___________________________|[(=)=(=)=(=)=(=)]
~~~~~~~~~~~~ Serving America's Heartland Since 1822 ~~~~~~~~~~~~
Roger T & Heather B
<Demetre Argiro> wrote in message
> On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 23:31:04 -0700, "Roger T & Heather B"
<roge...@islandnet.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >Do not both these posts prove my point?
> >
> >Cheers
> >Roger T.
>
>
> You DO purchase and read the tabloids at the supermarket don't you?
All this
> information and knowledge is contained therein. Everyone should
educate himself
> about these things, they're important:-))
Ah, Therein lies the source of my ignorance. I don't purchase those
tabloids. No wonder I'm so ill informed. ;-)
Cheers
Roger T.
Rusty Keeney
>Heh heh heh... and _you_ might note that his statement that they are
>capable of being connected by a single straight line does not anywhere
>imply that the line has to be on the earth's surface... Rather, simply
>that they exist in the same space-time. <<wink>>
>
>--
>--
> Joe Ellis € CEO Bethlehem-Ares Railroad
Ahhhh - but do they? No one has seen them both at the same time....
Bloody Viking
Wayne Manzo (wares...@yahoo.com) wrote:
: It would appear as if the steam engine explosion at the county fair in
: Medina, Ohio was the work of the "Alien Agency". Similar to what
: happened
: to the space shuttle Challenger and so many other lethal mysterious
: accidents.
The Challenger explosion was from a bad O-Ring. Get a copy of the video and
watch it in super slo-mo. (I made a video of the video in slo-mo to see what
happened) What you see is a flame coming out of the solid fuelled booster
rocket acting like a cutting torch, breaching the fuel tank. Once breached,
the flame ignited the liquid hydrogen, setting off the explosion. The fire
spreads from the original flame then at some point <BOOM!!!> As the liquid
hydrogen and liquid oxygen mixed, the explosion occured, blowing up the whole
assembly. At that point, the two boosters are detached by the explosion and
behave like bottle rockets without sticks on them. Had the O-Ring failure
occured facing away from the gas tank, the mission might have worked right but
as the boosters are retrieved, the problem would be found.
Now, about boilers. Boilers are hazardous devices no matter the design. That's
especially true of propulsion boilers, the more horses, the more hazard.
Powerplant boilers are dangerous too, but mobile boilers used for propulsion
can't have quite as many safeguards. Smaller propulsion boilers like the
tractor are especially hazardous due to lack of safeguards. High water in a
boiler can cause slugs of water getting to the engine part, causing an
explosion in a turbine's case or a major fuck-up in a piston engine.
Low water causes uneven heating of the boiler's plumbing, weakening it, and
the normal pressure breaching the weak area. Also, adding water too fast can
cause excessive pressure for a short time, possibly causing an explosion. The
most common source of boiler mishaps is either failure of an automatic boiler
control system (normally pneumatic) or operator error. Becuse boiler
automation is done by pneumatic systems in large systems, chronic vigilance on
the part of the operators is imperative. On small systems like the tractor,
the operator has to be vigilant becuse automatic control systems are not found
unless they use solenoid valves and a car computer type device.
Other problems plage boiler operation, like water chemistry. Water has to be
real pure with a chemical added to alter pH as pH changes with temp in high
pressure boilers. Water gets acidic in high temp/high pressure situations. So,
a chemical is added that is slightly alkaline, like hydrazine for example.
(N2H4) Only a small amount is added. Furthermore, as time goes by, despite
using water that is distilled and demineralised, crap does build up in boiler
water. Every so often, you have to drain a boiler and replace the water afresh
before the impurities get too nasty. Improper water chemistry corrodes the
insides of a boiler's plumbing, weakening it. Check with the manufacturer's
manual. (:
Maintenance has to be meticulous. Explosions can occur if a boiler is being
improperly pressure tested. One time while in the Navy, I read about a
shipboard mishap where they pressure tested a boiler but there was a pocket of
trapped air. As they pumped up the 1200PSI boiler to 2,000PSIG to test it with
water, at some point, the boiler failed, but the pocket of heavily compressed
air (about 1,000PSIG) pushed on the water big time, making for a nasty
explosion.
Note that most if not all states issue licenses for steam plant operators who
run boilers above a certain pressure. I'm sure the pressure varies from state
to state. These are stationary engineering licenses and depending on the
state, may or may not cover mobile boilers. I'm sure the USDOT and similar
agencies have regs about road-going boilers and are sure to have regs about
sea-going ones. If a state doesn't regulate mobile boilers and no DOT
regulates off-road-only boilers like the tractor, it could fall through the
cracks and there would be no regulation, making for the possibility for an
operator who doesn't know about boilers to use it and get injured or killed.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
http://www.ripco.com/~nospam/
CUIDADO: Las Puertas Estan Listas Para Cerrar.
Jim Stewart
Joe Ellis <fil...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:filker-0508...@user-37kaovm.dialup.mindspring.com...
> In article <9kidg5$op4$1...@husk.cso.niu.edu>, "Jim Stewart"
> <ste...@ceet.niu.edu> wrote:
>
> ><Demetre Argiro> wrote in message
> >news:3b6cb58e...@news.mindspring.com...
> >> On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:53:30 -0700, "Roger T & Heather B"
> ><roge...@islandnet.com>
> <<snip>>
> >>
> >> While there is seemingly no connection whatever between these two
> >> structures, closer examination on a map will reveal that they are
> >> capable of being connected by a single, perfectly straight line !
> >> If that is not proof positive, then what do you need ?
> >> --
> >> Demetre [argi...@mindspring.com] Argiro
> >
> >Actually it takes an arc. A straight line would be through the earth's
> >mantle. You will note that they were both built by operative masons.
> >
> >Jim Stewart
>
> Heh heh heh... and _you_ might note that his statement that they are
> capable of being connected by a single straight line does not anywhere
> imply that the line has to be on the earth's surface... Rather, simply
> that they exist in the same space-time. <<wink>>
And you might note that nothing I said contradicts that. I do happen to know
something about spherical geometry, calculus, and topography. However, they
are at quite different time zones. I assume we are, for purposes of this
newsgroup, accepting railroad standard time. (After all, I model the pennsy,
standard for the world.) If not, please move this conversation to
sifi.time.warped.wierdos.<<fingers saluted in good fun>>
Jim Stewart
Jim Stewart
Rusty Keeney <cros...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3b6dd1cf...@news.mindspring.com...
>
> >Heh heh heh... and _you_ might note that his statement that they are
> >capable of being connected by a single straight line does not anywhere
> >imply that the line has to be on the earth's surface... Rather, simply
> >that they exist in the same space-time. <<wink>>
> >
> >--
> >--
> > Joe Ellis ? CEO Bethlehem-Ares Railroad
>
> Ahhhh - but do they? No one has seen them both at the same time....
Are they both in the Northern Hemisphere, their bathtubs might run in
opposite directions.
Jim Stewart
Ron Herfurth
----------
In article <9kkpi1$rmj$1...@gail.ripco.com>, nos...@ripco.com (Bloody Viking)
wrote:
>
> Wayne Manzo (wares...@yahoo.com) wrote:
snip
> Had the O-Ring failure
> occured facing away from the gas tank, the mission might have worked right but
> as the boosters are retrieved, the problem would be found.
I heard that there were visual signs of O ring failures on previous missions
but NASA chose to ignore them, they didn't want anything to let anything get
in the way if getting a teacher into space so they wound up killing her with
their arrogance.
even bigger snip
>
> Note that most if not all states issue licenses for steam plant operators who
> run boilers above a certain pressure.
But is boiler insurance required in every state? Did the owner in Ohio have
insurance on his engine or will his widow and estate get to fund the
lawsuits.