E&C Shops acquired by LBF
Jac10694
A message on the Atlas RR board said that LBF Co. had acquired E&C Shops. Check
the website at www.lbfcompany.com.
Stuart
Remove `spam-ex' to reply
DBlake7096
Fred Becker, the owner of LBF, Loads by Fred, was with E&C Shops and several
other companies that went belly up over the past decade+++. I kind of figured
that it would come to this and Fred himself told me some time ago that he was
going to try to get the assets of E&C Shops.
Guess it will be business as usual, Fred style, at LBF/E&C Shops.
Denis F. Blake
Columbus, Ohio
SEmod...@onelist.com
TTHOTS
Mike Epler
DBlake7096 <dblak...@aol.comadios> wrote in article
<19990706173613...@ng-fp1.aol.com>...
>
> Guess it will be business as usual, Fred style, at LBF/E&C Shops.
> Denis F. Blake
> Columbus, Ohio
> SEmod...@onelist.com
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DHENK
<mep...@delanet.com> writes:
>For those of us that do not know what this means, please elucidate.
>
>DBlake7096 <dblak...@aol.comadios> wrote in article
><19990706173613...@ng-fp1.aol.com>...
>>
>> Guess it will be business as usual, Fred style, at LBF/E&C Shops.
>> Denis F. Blake
>> Columbus, Ohio
>> SEmod...@onelist.com
He probably means long on promised items and very short on delivery. E&C had
the biggest list of vaporware bar none. Cars were of interest in some aspects
(Coalporters) however most were somewhat so-so in quality in my personal
opinion and experience with them. I had more items backordered from them for
our shop before I just got fed up and decided to drop them. Many better
companies were and are available to get rolling stock from including
Intermountain, Red Caboose, or Bowser to name three I deal with. Branchline is
also a better choice and has finally started producing their own rolling stock.
Dave Henk
Jacksonville, FL
Dave Henk
Will Lawrence
Cool - maybe I can get more of those nifty hi-cube boxcars in CN
now...
=================================================================
| W. Lawrence | "Is your hair really that colour?" |
| B.A. (Bloody Awful) | "Sweet child. Nobody's hair is |
| CET (Chases Every Train) | really this colour." |
| Truro, N.S. | |
=================================================================
rathburne
a buy what is in the store type of company. The wheels
were lousy but the cars were not made by anyone else.
As for Branchline, are their own cars finally out? It has
been a long time but I want some!
In article <19990707035056...@ngol07.aol.com>,
--
rathburne
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
DBlake7096
>now...
Dont count on it.
Denis F. Blake
Columbus, Ohio
SEmod...@onelist.com
TTHOTS
DBlake7096
>He probably means long on promised items and very short on delivery. E&C had
>the biggest list of vaporware bar none. Cars were of interest in some aspects
>(Coalporters) however most were somewhat so-so in quality in my personal
>opinion and experience with them. I had more items backordered from them for
>our shop before I just got fed up and decided to drop them. Many better
>companies were and are available to get rolling stock from including
>Intermountain, Red Caboose, or Bowser to name three I deal with. Branchline
>is
>also a better choice and has finally started producing their own rolling
>stock.
>
Well Dave, not actually what I meant but certainly that is one aspect of doing
business with Fred.
Anyone who has been in this hobby for any length of time, or who has worked
with manufacturers know about the track record that Fred has. I don't need to
say more.
Mike Epler
posted the notice world wide. Yet, for those of us that may be new, (or
newly re-active), we would not know what you mean, which is why I asked.
And I didn't send it via individual email since it was posted world wide.
Sorta' figured it couldn't be too worthy of a law suit or it wouln't have
been posted in the first place. Geez, it might be something more of us
should know........... but since I am wrong I'll drop the thread.
I thank Dave for his information.
(This might be one of those messages one writes that should be deleted
rather than sent but that's what happens when left in the dark...... eeyia,
just slipped on some of those mushrooms over there). <only funny if you
think about how mushrooms are commercially produced>
EARLIER BABBLE IN R.M.R. ---
> Well Dave, not actually what I meant but certainly that is one aspect of
doing
> business with Fred.
>
> Anyone who has been in this hobby for any length of time, or who has
worked
> with manufacturers know about the track record that Fred has. I don't
need to
> say more.
> Denis F. Blake
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
Mike Epler
mags fall back on the phrase "hope springs eternal" while too many of you
folks have been burned enough to prefer the "leopard can't change its'
spots".......
BondoBill1 <bondo...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19990707224937...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
> One other interesting aspect of this saga. MR-RMC and others have in the
past
> refused ad space due to non-payment of back bills. As soon as a new
company is
> formed, they easily forget the same management team who they are giving
credit
> to, didn't pay their bills. I gues time (one to two yrs) washes a bad
taste
> away and makes the mind forget.
BondoBill1
>worked
There are many stories going about this gentleman, I for one have my own. It is
not surprising that many folks would rather send vield messages than blurt out
their stories. Sufffice it to say there are a number of manufacturers, and
ex-manufacturers who have either lost their business to or because of him. In a
world so intense on communication and media it is extremely weird that more and
more folks are allowing past problems not to deter them from dealing with this
gentleman. I hold in my office a legal document, forbidding this gentleman from
producing, for anyone, for himself, ......designing and fabricating a tool and
die or mold, for himself or any other entity, of any variation of a PS-50 foot
Box Car in any configuration for a period of ten yrs. Within 15 months of
signing it he violated the agreement. Lawyers contacted all agreed to the
legality of the contract, and the points set forth..but he was/is judgement
proof, and has surfaced more times than a German U-Boat forced to run submerged
on battery power, under so many names, or divisions of coporations, he gives
the word business a bad name. There is nothing wrong with his product, nothing
wrong wioth announcing product that never shows up, but where the trouble lies
is where he has hurt other manufacturers. In one instance, I had a very bad
feeling that he found out something so humilating, or embarrassing about
another manufacturer, that he dragged him from show to show as if he was a
ventriqoilists dummy. The purpose of the show and tell was to nullify and ideas
that this guy lost his house and business because of our friend. He used him
soley to difuse the rumors. Making a good product, is great, and with good
intention even better, but on the backs of others is totally wrong. As so many
dealers know his past, they all say his stuff sells, and they have to carry it,
if they don't the uneducated consumer would go elsewhere. Sad to say in
railroading many a kit is not sold because a customer knows the mfg. and many a
poor kit is sold just because a customer knows a mfg.
As far as I can see, when the new company wiht the old assests goes belly up
again, sometime down the road our friend will surface again, under a new name,
with his old product again.
Owner of the Hawk from Hell and his all girl pit crew
1956 Golden Hawk
1947 Cmdr Starlight Coupe
1947 Cmdr Convertible- work in progress
1945 M15-C9 1 ton PU now called "Butt Ugly"
visit my sites
http://members.aol.com/bondobill1/index.htm
BondoBill1
refused ad space due to non-payment of back bills. As soon as a new company is
formed, they easily forget the same management team who they are giving credit
to, didn't pay their bills. I gues time (one to two yrs) washes a bad taste
away and makes the mind forget.
John Timm
Mike Epler wrote in message <01bec8f9$253736e0$c2007ccf@avenger>...
>Thanks for the info in your two posts....helps fill in the gaps. Maybe the
>mags fall back on the phrase "hope springs eternal" while too many of you
>folks have been burned enough to prefer the "leopard can't change its'
>spots".......
>
>BondoBill1 <bondo...@aol.com> wrote in article
><19990707224937...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>past
>> refused ad space due to non-payment of back bills. As soon as a new
>company is
>> formed, they easily forget the same management team who they are giving
>credit
>> to, didn't pay their bills. I gues time (one to two yrs) washes a bad
>taste
>> away and makes the mind forget.
>
A more likely scenario is that they were required to pay cash up front in
order to get any space. It is unlikely that they have open account status.
John Timm
Bruce Z. Friedman
I'm sure your info is correct. You have posted these stories time and time again. There are plenty of us that are happy with their products and have gotten good service from Fred Becker. I love thier 50' HO highcubes. These cars are very key to the operations of my layout for they travel by the hundreds every week on the CSX Philly sub, which I model. This car may have taken years for someone to do, and I am grateful to Fred Becker for doing them. The Coal porters are OK and so were the gondolas and 50' boxes. I thought their paint jobs were some of the best. I do agree that some of their details and ribs are shallow. Bottom line, I'm glad he's back and welcome his products. We can never have enough products, regardless if their great, good or medicore. Mr Henk from the Florida hobby shop has some bad stories too, but my hobby shop had zero problems getting any E&C cars I wanted and when I had bad wheels or missing parts, they were emailed and shipped promptly. I hope Fred is sucessful, puts out good quality and correctly detailed cars and pays his bills. I have every intention of supporting him. I have only met Fred once and have no affiliation with him.
Bruce Friedman
BondoBill1 wrote:
One other interesting aspect of this saga. MR-RMC and others have in the past
refused ad space due to non-payment of back bills. As soon as a new company is
formed, they easily forget the same management team who they are giving credit
to, didn't pay their bills. I gues time (one to two yrs) washes a bad taste
away and makes the mind forget.
BondoBill1
>hope Fred is sucessful, puts out good quality and correctly detailed cars and
>pays
>his bills. I have every intention of supporting him. I have only met Fred
>once
I said it in the original post, there will be people who will only look as far
as the box cover to dtermine the product or its originm, then there will be
folks who will re-think a purchase. I have no problem with you wishing him
sucess, or that you will buy his product. We all have brothers-in-laws who are
stupid as hell, lazy, or just plain dumb, and we all wonder how our
brothers-inlaw have any friends or can keep a job. Its the same way with our
friend, there are some who consider the past behavior reprehensible, and other
who fiqure, hey its cool, this walks to beat of a differnet drummer, and what
he does or did is no concern of mine. From a modeling point of view, you are
correct in wishing him well, he serves a purpose for you. While I lurk here and
sometimes comment, I am out of the hobby as a true participant, the last
product produced by our friend that I saw was my 50ft box car...the tool now
sits useless, what did come out when it worked was a nice car, I am sure he has
improved, and wish the modelers all the kits they want, my only displeasure is
in seeing a track record un-broken just repeating itself. While the modeling
community probably has no interest in what the personalities are behind the
kits, I found that quite to the contrary some modelers who I rubbed the wrong
way would never by another kit of mine, so the door swings both ways.
There is no way on earth that I can equate WWII to this, but there was an
interesting piece on CBS the other night about Bayer Asprin and the company
during WWII, what was eleuded to, has nothing to do with me or our friend in
any way as to compare the acts, it does have similarities. The big question is,
does Bayer asprin stay as big as they are with their strong customer base since
nobobdy cares to what they are supposedly guility for during the war? Does any
toy product lose credibility based on the behavior of the executives on the
company board? Does a whole community of customers bury their heads in sands
to forget passed problems and hurt, so that in the end they can get a good
model? Points to think about. If the consumer market place supports a company
with an idea of its past history, it condons the behavior. Ie: Henry Ford was
one of the worlds greatest and antisemitics, but how many folks of Jewish
origin drive a Ford product? No, I am not saying the FOMOCO is on the whole a
corporation that is in any way anti anyone or group, but we have lost site in
our own ways of what really should bring us to a simple truth of re-thinking
our purchasing power and voting with our wallets. As you say, you suppport the
product and the man, so, do you believe his or anyones business practices,
shady or not doesn't matter? In reality Its a domino effect, once a company
especially the size of model railroading loses a manufacturer, the effect is
like a ripple, other hobbyists/manufactuers/suppliers don't get paid, and in
some cases could play havoc on theire financial balance sheets. I know the
feeling, as in the case when TMI went out, and they were holding over 20,000 of
my covered hoppers which they were to paint and decorate. How many clubs paid
into a company for special run cars and never see their product, which is paid
for/
It is a way too small of an industry to allow ethics to be ignored. Each time a
company goes under, a bigger company takes it over, and what was a $3.50 item
yesterday is now a $10 item.
rathburne
something. Are you a past or current manufacturer?
What did this guy Fred do? I only bought some E&C
shops cars at a hobby store because they looked
good to me (the hi cubes). Have really no clue
about the company or what they did wrong that
the hobbyist should know about or care about?
In article <19990708165649...@ng-ch1.aol.com>,
--
Tim O'Connor
> Bondo, your posts are interesting, but I am missing
> something. Are you a past or current manufacturer?
> What did this guy Fred do? I only bought some E&C
> shops cars at a hobby store because they looked
> good to me (the hi cubes). Have really no clue
> about the company or what they did wrong that
> the hobbyist should know about or care about?
Bill Glass (Glas?) was Robin's Rails, which produced
a pretty good HO scale 50 foot PS-1 boxcar in single
and double doors. I think he was involved as well with
E&B Valley, and has done much work for Bev-Bel. So his
model rr industry bona fides are in order. (Fred did
the dies for Robins Rails.)
I've heard a lot of disparaging stories about Becker,
but my general impression is that he's the kind of guy
who always gives 80%, while most other vendors try to
give you 100%. He's very creative, has good ideas, but
is too impatient or lazy or -something- and never gives
his full attention to the product. They ALWAYS come up
short. From Robin Rails kits, to Front Range, to McKean
and Skylim, to E&C Shops, and now LBF. Plus he seems to
have burned everyone in Colorado ... is that why he moved
to Oregon? Where will he go next?
Fred Dabney
>I've heard a lot of disparaging stories about Becker,
>but my general impression is that he's the kind of guy
>who always gives 80%, while most other vendors try to
>give you 100%. He's very creative, has good ideas, but
>is too impatient or lazy or -something- and never gives
>his full attention to the product. They ALWAYS come up
>short. From Robin Rails kits, to Front Range, to McKean
>and Skylim, to E&C Shops, and now LBF. Plus he seems to
>have burned everyone in Colorado ... is that why he moved
>to Oregon? Where will he go next?
The stories I've heard, from folk in the business and along
the edges are enough to make one wonder why his current
address isn't a number in a federal pen.
Alas, some of them aren't for attribution, but I've heard
of more busted investors left in the lurch with nothing but
a bunch of kits for their trouble. Ask around Colorado
and you'll get a lot of nasty stories. Bondo Billy is
just one of many, so it seems.
Fred D.
BondoBill1
>address isn't a number in a federal pen.
I was once approached through a magazine publisher by some guys from the FBI
asking about him. I filled them in, as to what I knew and the documentation,
but I think he wasn't one of their top priorities at the time. I am also
informed that he has become what is known as "judgement proof". One ( I know
HEARSAY) former employee of one of his companies did phone me asking if I knew
his wheareabouts, as he never paid the witholding taxes on his employee
saleries.
On the other hand the guys who owned Olifactory Airs, back in the late 70's
were, the company is gone, but one or both are possibility still serving time.
The sold the same 100% of the company 5 or 6 times.
Owner of the Hawk from Hell and his all girl pit crew
http://www.bondobilly.com/index.htm
http://members.aol.com/bondobill1/index.htm
LARRY020
>were, the company is gone, but one or both are possibility still serving
>time.
Next we'll be talking about Hi Country Brass........ ooops!
Larry, from Pinole, CA
BondoBill1
Oh you mean 8574329, he is the one on the left, with the pot belly.