Which is more ugly/beautiful, BL2 or DL-109?
robby
BL2 in Monon Black & Gold--a distinctive anomaly, lovely!
DL-109 in Southern Green & Aluminum--asthetically breathtaking!
The DL-109 prototype also happens to resemble a pre-war American Flyer
toy train in real life. That's an acomplishment, don't you think?
Robby
Brian Paul Ehni
7ae6b614.03061...@posting.google.com, "robby"
<robby...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Even better is the DL-109 AND the BL2 in matched Rock Island Rocket
Passenger and Rocket Freight colors!
Brian
Pac Man
robby wrote in message <7ae6b614.03061...@posting.google.com>...
The BL-2 is by far the uglier of the two. The DL-109 has style, with
it's rakish nose and appliances (streamlined number boards, etc.). They got
better looking on the New Haven as time went on: the windows on the side
were replaced with a grill/screening along the whole length, the side vents
were eliminated, the roof line was cleaned up with vents removed, automatic
shutters were added over the radiator fans, etc.
The 60 NH DL-109's also lasted from 1941 to 1959 on the New Haven, which
is probably longer than any other pre-war road diesel. They were also the
first road diesels to be used in both passenger and freight service; the
DL-109's were a resounding success on the New Haven. It's styling never got
in the way of it's utility for the job it was meant for.
The BL-2 is a case of styling considerations taking too much from the
practical side of things. It's like EMD took a F-unit and tried to get rear
visibility and a front porch on it, all while making it look like an
automobile. TSTL. :-)
Paul A. Cutler III
**************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
**************
E Litella
> The BL-2 is a case of styling considerations taking too much from the
> practical side of things. It's like EMD took a F-unit and tried to get rear
> visibility and a front porch on it, all while making it look like an
> automobile.
The General Motors effect.
JCunington
>
>BL2 in Monon Black & Gold--a distinctive anomaly, lovely!
>DL-109 in Southern Green & Aluminum--asthetically breathtaking!
DL-109 is the better looking of the two, though I prefer mine in C&NW yellow &
green.
I also bought the P2K model. Love it!
Jay
C&NW/CNS&M in 1940-1955
remove "ewsadfg" to reply
Corelane
I checked and, sure enough, there was such a beast!
http://www.geocities.com/~sou-ry/sou6401.htm Thanks for enlightening me,
Robby.
...Bill
John Obert
classic paint schemes
Brian Paul Ehni
Obert" <isp...@ameritech.net> wrote:
The various NH schemes (Pullman with stripes and Cranberry to name two) were
nice, too, not to mention the Southern.
Actually, the ATSF Warbonnet never looked so bad as when applied to the
DL-109, IMHO.
Brian
Pac Man
Brian Paul Ehni wrote in message ...
>On 6/13/03 11:14 PM, in article BB100B69.1091A%isp...@ameritech.net, "John
>Obert" <isp...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>The various NH schemes (Pullman with stripes and Cranberry to name two)
were
>nice, too, not to mention the Southern.
What? No mention of the "reverse" McGinnis NH paint scheme? ;-) The
fun of the whole DL-109 in NH paint is that they had about a dozen different
paint schemes over the years. Someday, I'll have one of each. Bwhahahaha!
:-)
>Actually, the ATSF Warbonnet never looked so bad as when applied to the
>DL-109, IMHO.
What still frosts my gills is the fact that Life-Like's P1K DL-109 is
closely modeled after the ATSF DL-10X (or whatever it is). Santa Fe had
exactly *_ONE_* DL cab unit that nobody else had. The New Haven had 60
DL-109's that also matched the Southern's units.
You can tell the model is a ATSF prototype because of the two different
size air horns facing the same way, the fairings behind the number boards,
and the very large opening in the pilot for the doors over the front
coupler. They should have done the New Haven/Southern version and matched
the vast majority of all DL-109's ever made, rather than the Warbonnet road
(that people attracted to the Warbonnet would have bought anyways).
And is it me, or has anyone else noticed that with the exception of the
C-Liner and the RS-18 (both by their Canadian partner, Hobbycraft),
everything that P1K has done is available in the Warbonnet? What is this,
"Life-Like Proto Santa Fe"? :-) Of course, the new RS-2 coming out soon
from P1K won't be, but it'll be the first! ^_^
Brian Paul Ehni
apHGa.48259$Io.44...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net, "Pac Man"
<cut...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Brian Paul Ehni wrote in message ...
>> On 6/13/03 11:14 PM, in article BB100B69.1091A%isp...@ameritech.net, "John
>> Obert" <isp...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>> The various NH schemes (Pullman with stripes and Cranberry to name two)
> were
>> nice, too, not to mention the Southern.
>
> What? No mention of the "reverse" McGinnis NH paint scheme? ;-) The
> fun of the whole DL-109 in NH paint is that they had about a dozen different
> paint schemes over the years. Someday, I'll have one of each. Bwhahahaha!
> :-)
Ah, but the thread talked about original schemes!
Brian
Brian Paul Ehni
apHGa.48259$Io.44...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net, "Pac Man"
<cut...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> And is it me, or has anyone else noticed that with the exception of the
> C-Liner and the RS-18 (both by their Canadian partner, Hobbycraft),
> everything that P1K has done is available in the Warbonnet? What is this,
> "Life-Like Proto Santa Fe"? :-) Of course, the new RS-2 coming out soon
> from P1K won't be, but it'll be the first! ^_^
>
It's you. P2k DID NOT do the FA/B-1 or FA/B-2, nor BL2 in ATSF colors of any
sort.
Con-Cor, though, DID do the FA/B-1 in ATSF Warbonnet.
Brian
John Obert
not making the ATSF in the first run of the PA.
His reply was the stupidest thing I had heard in a while
He said they were not making the ATSF first because they had made it first
in other runs and they did not want to favor one road over the other.
He ignores the fact that ATSF war bonnet outsells everything and he should
be in the business of selling
Now you might say that the xxx road is a good seller frankly it is not,
maybe in your region it might outsell the ATSF but across the USA the ATSF
war bonnet is the biggest seller by far
Doubts?
Find a Genesis ATSF F3a, very rare and they can get top dollar for them.
Other great roads like UP NYC and prr are being stored on shelves and
discounted
Look at the advance orders for the ATSF f7b this summer
Find the Kato c-44 in a lot of roads and but where are the ATSF?
Look this summer at the Athearn RTR GP 60 ask your dealers the ATSF war
bonnet is out selling the pre orders the other units
They are in business for profit and putting the best seller ATSF out first
so they get the best price and before they heavily discount their line after
being on the market 6 months makes business sense
By the way because the ATSF people buy anything remotely correct they should
have made the Dl109 to the New Haven/southern specs
John
Fro...@thepond.com
>Years ago at the trade show in Chicago I asked Nolan at Proto why they were
>not making the ATSF in the first run of the PA.
>
>His reply was the stupidest thing I had heard in a while
>
>He said they were not making the ATSF first because they had made it first
>in other runs and they did not want to favor one road over the other.
Ok folks, now that it's after the fact I will spill the beans here.
It was Nolan who, in 1995, at the Atlanta convention, said that Life-Like would NEVER
offer the DL-109.
I said: "So, not until Hell freezes over, huh?"
To which he replied: "NO! Not even then!"
Today, only the New Haven had more DL109s than I do.<G>
PacMan and a few others expressed a bit of chagrin that the models were not produced
to match New Haven and Southern Railway prototypes. Now, it is not for me to say that
they are right or wrong. It is entirely a subjective matter. I would havae liked to
see them looking more like GM&O prototypes. So, are they perfect? Of course not. But
I have bought them and will buy more as time goes on. I can kitbash them into GM&O
DL-105s a whole lot easier than I can scratch-build them.
Yessir, a WHOLE lot easier.
Maybe I will do a New Haven 759 just to illustrate my point.
Hunter Green, of course. The ONLY new Haven livery.
.............F>
Pac Man
Fro...@thepond.com wrote in message
<3eebaf9c...@news.mindspring.com>...
>
>Ok folks, now that it's after the fact I will spill the beans here.
>It was Nolan who, in 1995, at the Atlanta convention, said that Life-Like
would NEVER
>offer the DL-109.
>I said: "So, not until Hell freezes over, huh?"
>To which he replied: "NO! Not even then!"
>
>Today, only the New Haven had more DL109s than I do.<G>
Yeah, but when he said "never", was he talking about P2K, or P1K? ;-)
>PacMan and a few others expressed a bit of chagrin that the models were not
produced
>to match New Haven and Southern Railway prototypes.
Yep. After all, doesn't it make more sense to try to match as many of
the prototype engines as possible? ^_^ To me, it's as if someone released
a FL9, but only in the Amtrak body style. Arrrgh!
>Now, it is not for me to say that
>they are right or wrong. It is entirely a subjective matter.
Don't worry, I'll do it for you. ;-)
>I would havae liked to
>see them looking more like GM&O prototypes.
Well, if the GM&O had almost 60 more than anyone else, I'd agree... <g>
>So, are they perfect? Of course not.
I don't think anybody expected "perfection" from P1K. :-) However, I
would have rather had them do a "generic" DL-109 that didn't match any _one_
railroad than to do a ATSF version and try to pass it off as CNW, RI, SOU,
NH, etc.
>But
>I have bought them and will buy more as time goes on.
Hey, if I could find any more NH ones, I'd get them too. Unfortunately,
they are _gone_ (especially in New England for some strange reason). Maybe
I'll get a RI one and repaint into one of the dozen NH paint schemes... Hey
Froggy, howzabout PP716? LOL
>I can kitbash them into GM&O
>DL-105s a whole lot easier than I can scratch-build them.
>Yessir, a WHOLE lot easier.
No argument there.
>Maybe I will do a New Haven 759 just to illustrate my point.
>Hunter Green, of course. The ONLY new Haven livery.
Um, are you sure about Hunter? What about Pullman? And are you talking
about the "layer cake" scheme with silver stripes? Or with yellow? Or the
one that had un-even striping? And don't forget the warm orange with the
Hunter green roof and silver stripes.................
Froggy
>
>Fro...@thepond.com wrote in message
><3eebaf9c...@news.mindspring.com>...
>......Um, are you sure about Hunter? What about Pullman? And are you talking
>about the "layer cake" scheme with silver stripes? Or with yellow? Or the
>one that had un-even striping? And don't forget the warm orange with the
>Hunter green roof and silver stripes.................
Brother, you do know how to force a decision don't you?<G>
My favorite NH livery of all time is the one that was the delivery variant for the
DL-109. I think it also rode on the PAs and the C-Liners.
Layer cake is OK
Orange with green roof is not my favorite, but as a "modern" NH livery it is OK.
Any of them are better than McGinnis.
A DL-109 in McGinnis is, in the words of Monty Python, completely horrid.
............F>
Pac Man
<Froggy> wrote in message news:3eecb051...@news.mindspring.com...
>
> Brother, you do know how to force a decision don't you?<G>
I try. ;-)
> My favorite NH livery of all time is the one that was the delivery variant
for the
> DL-109. I think it also rode on the PAs and the C-Liners.
Um, I think that's the normal "green body, wide center yellow stripe w/
cat whiskers and the oval around the windows" (as in the P1K model). Later,
the oval was removed. The so called "delivery scheme" was the one with the
orange body/green roof that appeared with the PA's, FA's, FB's, and
retroactively on some DL-109's. The C-Liners never had that, but they did
get the standard "green w/ wide center yellow stripe" scheme. Ho boy...
> Layer cake is OK
> Orange with green roof is not my favorite, but as a "modern" NH livery it
is OK.
Modern? It was gone after 1950... ;-)
> Any of them are better than McGinnis.
> A DL-109 in McGinnis is, in the words of Monty Python, completely horrid.
Aw, c'mon, they ain't that bad (there were 2). Although, I admit ol' PP716
was rather plain.. That is, if you consider all orange with small black NH
logos plain... ;-)
Paul A. Cutler III
*************
Brian Paul Ehni
mSaHa.45731$rO.45...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net, "Pac Man"
<cut...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Of all the NH schemes I like the "Cranberry" best.
Brian
Gmenon instead of gregsblackhole
the PA, but I like it better. Overall, though, I prefer the E6 (and
earlier). Someone needs to release a model of the EA. The B&O Museum
has an EA awaiting restoration. Of course, the museum itself needs
restored first!
Only a mother could love the BL2, and apparently few mothers owned
railroads.
Here's a link to my photo of the B&O Museum's BL2, along with their
ridiculous shrouded Hudson and the sublime Allegheny:
http://www.geocities.com/gregsblackhole/
The BL2 and the Hudson are uglier in person.
Greg
Joe
was actually pretty, and the BL-2 ugly.
"Gmenon instead of gregsblackhole" <gregsbl...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:9238f40c.03061...@posting.google.com...
E Litella
> I agree totally, with everything you've said. I always thought the DL-109
> was actually pretty, and the BL-2 ugly.
Well, the BL-2 _is_ pretty much '57 tailfine ugly, but that DL-109 reminds
of a really ugly girl with a horrendous overbite . . .
Brian Paul Ehni
MPG.19584cd55...@netnews.worldnet.att.net, "E Litella"
<steve...@ateeteedaht.net> wrote:
But NOT as yougly as a baby face Baldwin!
Brian
Michael Powell
Brian Paul Ehni <be...@comcast.net> wrote:
: On 6/17/03 12:46 AM, in article
:
--
Froggy
>: But NOT as yougly as a baby face Baldwin!
>:
>: Brian
Hold on there guy. Not so fast. There are few models I would rather have than some
DR4 4 16 "Babys". Ditto for the DR6 4 20, a-la Seaboard Airline's 2700s. And yes,
with the commonwealth trucks. The Centipede was a "Baby" also and I would delight in
having some of those. Proto 1000 or 2000.
Which brings up another topic about which I think I will start a new thread.
Proto 1000 VS Proto 2000.
..................F>
Full Pond, GA
Brian Paul Ehni
"Froggy" <Froggy> wrote:
Didn't say I didn't LIKE them; just that they are yougly! I'd love to have
an A-B-A set of the MoPac freight jobs.
Brian
Froggy
You do know that the MoPac motors were Baldwin's equivalent of the FP7 don't you?
I suspect that you do.
MoPac's units were three feet longer than all others so that train boilers could be
installed behind the cab.
But I know you knew that.
Only fifty-eight DR4 4 15s were produced, only twenty-two of these were Babyface
units. CNJ had ten, MP had eight and NYC had four.
I don't have drawings of these units, but I will bet that the MPs units are the same
as the Seaboard's DR6 4 15 class 2700s. All the photos I have look the same except
that the Seaboard's motors ride on A-1-A Commonwealth top-equalized trucks.
If you COULD get the Mopac version, you could do some kewl stuff with it.
Also, since there is nobody in the world who models CNJ, it probbly wouldn't be a
marketing problem.
Nobody models Joisy Central...dooday?
Naaawwwwww.......................F>
Brian Paul Ehni
"Froggy" <Froggy> wrote:
I don't think the MoPac ever used them in passenger service except as back
up units (unlike the Geeps, which got regular passenger duties).
Brian
Froggy
>I don't think the MoPac ever used them in passenger service except as back
>up units (unlike the Geeps, which got regular passenger duties).
>
The GM&O had a pair of DR6 4 20 babyface units that they DID use in passenger service
between Mobile and St Louis on trains 15 / 16. The units entered service in 1947 and
were retired in 1953. They sat out in the weeds behind the shops in Jackson
Tennessee until they were traded in on new GPs in 1963. The machines were terrible
and could not be depended upon to operate reliably. Sometimes they would come to a
stop and then would not go again. Somehow, the wheels would lock-up and refuse to
turn. When that happened, they would have to be dragged out of the way, wheels
sliding, and replaced by another engine.
Also, the machines were faithful to the Baldwin Motto:
"If it ain't leakin' no oil, its 'cause thay ain't none in thare"
I was sorry that the locomotives disappeared. At the time, all I knew was that after
a certain time, I never saw them any more. The DL 109s and the DL 304s handled
everything just fine until the end of passenger service in October, 1958.
How good were the DL 109s? The three that the GM&O had operated daily between Mobile
and St Louis for 18 years. Not too shabby. The Baldwins lasted only six years, the
last three of which saw only sporadic and intermittent use. I doubt that the Baldwin
sisters made much more than a hundred round trips between Mobile and St Louis in the
entire span of their service lives.
.........................F>
JJRNJ
be a
marketing problem.
Nobody models Joisy Central...dooday?
Naaawwwwww.......................F>>
Yes there are a few of us here in JERSEY that actually do model and enjoy the
CNJ and other Eastern roads, and many of us that would rather see a PC worm,
CNJ double ender Baby Face Baldwin, PRR GG-1, or models for any of the other
many great Eastern roads become more prevalent. I for one do not need another
yellow UP or green and black BN unit, and personally, I am well beyind tired of
seeing every model ever made, wearing a warbonnet... unless it is a D&H PA-1 or
Baldwin Sharknose. And BTW Froggy, we here in JERSEY don't say Joisy, only the
idiots on TV, Bennies and tourists say that. And that "dooday" expression, I
think you have us confused with Brooklyn, or you are watching too much of the
Sopranos.
Jeff
Froggy
>
>Yes there are a few of us here in JERSEY that actually do model and enjoy the
>yellow UP or green and black BN unit.............
I was only trying to be "cute". I guess everyone hates the stereotypes, not just
those of us from Dixie who do not sound like Scalett O'Hara. Your point is taken.
Overland made models of CNJ 2000 or 2005, I don't remember which. I know the 2000
had a tapered roof. I think the 2005 had a stepped roof. I don't know where the break
between the types was.
Too bad that we'll never see any of these truly interesting types done in affordable
plastic. If you are only going to be able to market a couple hundred copies, it is
less expensive to do it in brass. I almost purchased one of the Overland
double-enders. I was going to cut it in half and make the GM&O set of single-ended
versions. However, I had too many irons in the fire and by the time I had made a firm
decision the only copy available had been sold. It was an undec., sos I suppose it
was bought by a brass collector, not a modeler.
I agree with you on the UP, BN and Santa-Fe. I am only interested in the railroading
of the post-war era from about 1945 to 1965, mas o menos. I model what was for
decades an obscure mid-continent/Southern railroad. Only recently has it gained any
notariety in modeling circles. I can remember forty years ago when I told people
that I modeled the Gulf, Mobile & Ohio, they would say, "Is that a made-up railroad?"
............F>
Andy Harman
>I was only trying to be "cute". I guess everyone hates the stereotypes, not just
>those of us from Dixie who do not sound like Scalett O'Hara. Your point is taken.
Not to be confused with Skillett O'Hara, who bashed her husband over
the head three times.
Actually I pictured you sounding more like Foghorn Leghorn than
Scarlett....
Andy
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.duckcreek.org - Pre-Interstate Urban Archaeology
-----------------------------------------------------------
Froggy
>On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:30:09 GMT, Froggy wrote:
>
>>I was only trying to be "cute". I guess everyone hates the stereotypes, not just
>>those of us from Dixie who do not sound like Scalett O'Hara. Your point is taken.
>
>Not to be confused with Skillett O'Hara, who bashed her husband over
>the head three times.
>
>Actually I pictured you sounding more like Foghorn Leghorn than
>Scarlett....
Son, I say SON, You're not so far off there, I say, not so far off atall<G>
Mel Blanc was the voice of Foghorn, but I always thought Foghorn sounded like Phil
Harris. Mebbe it was Blanc doing Harris thru foghorn. Anyway..........
I always thought Phil Harris was one of the best cartoon voices of all time, and if
Blanc sounded like Harris then it's all the same to me.
Foghorn is one of my favorite characters because I have really known people like
that.
"Son, I say SON, Let me show ya' how it's done heah.".....................F>
Hudson Leighton
>
> Son, I say SON, You're not so far off there, I say, not so far off atall<G>
>
> Mel Blanc was the voice of Foghorn, but I always thought Foghorn sounded
like Phil
> Harris. Mebbe it was Blanc doing Harris thru foghorn. Anyway..........
> I always thought Phil Harris was one of the best cartoon voices of all
time, and if
> Blanc sounded like Harris then it's all the same to me.
> Foghorn is one of my favorite characters because I have really known
people like
> that.
>
> "Son, I say SON, Let me show ya' how it's done heah.".....................F>
That boy, I say that boy is as sharp as a bowling ball . . . . . . .
(my personal favorite Foghorn)
-Hudson
Eric
"...Sometimes they would come to a stop and then would not go again.
Somehow, the wheels would lock-up and refuse to turn. When that
happened, they would have to be dragged out of the way, wheels
sliding, and replaced by another engine."
If someone makes a model I wonder if this'll be an option? ;-)
Eric
Jim Stewart
Eric wrote:
That isn't a defect, that is a new track cleaning feature.
Jim Stewart
Jim Stewart
JJRNJ wrote:
My wife and I left NJ in 1964. I do model the Standard railroad of the world, but I
still am imediately recognized and recognize someone from New Jersey. Not by the
Dead End Kids steriotype, but by the A's. You have it and will never lose it. It
will recur in French, Spanish, Yiddish, Chinese and Icelandic. A fellow from Seton
Hall is a top medical specialist in Iceland for some 30 years. His kids order for
him in the grocery. They don"t want to be embaaaarased.
Texans, on the other hand, can speak with a drawl one minute and mile-a-minute
Spanish the next. Since "standard" English is defined as a Dallas sound, the
southern clips are less noticable.
Jim Stewart
Joe
By the way, is a double-ended baby face a babies faces?
"Eric" <newyorkc...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:890c016e.03062...@posting.google.com...
JCunington
>those of us from Dixie who do not sound like Scalett O'Hara.
Or my Siciliani in-laws who are most decidedly NOT in the Cosa Nostra.
Unfortunately the nearby Irish in-laws are all drunks, so can we have them
arrested for "contributing to the continuation of a stereotype"?
Jay
JCunington
>the head three times.
>
A portion of a tune I remember from the Bristol Renaissance Faire:
"I said now let's get one thing straight
Before all this gets started!
She combed me hair with a rolling pin
To make sure it was parted..."
Jay
Modeling the North Shore & North Western
C&NW/CNS&M in 1940-1955
Due to spam, all e-mails except those from selected addresses will be refused.
Thanks for your understanding.
Beowulf
"Joe" <J...@dontspam.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:vfa55f8...@corp.supernews.com...
no it's baby faeces........
Diapers at the ready...
Beowulf
Beowulf
"Jim Stewart" <ste...@ceet.niu.edu> skrev i meddelandet
news:3EF4E85F...@ceet.niu.edu...
You want to talk dialects? then try geordie from Newcastle-upon-Tyne in
northern England for a beauty following close behind is the village of
Cullybacky in Northern Ireland with its amasing version of english which
leaves visitors helpless in the face of relentlessly helpfull villagers ( so
thats why that british army patrol ended up south of the border.......)
fortunately as a practitioner of Scouse I can cofuse them buggers just as
easily :)))
Beowulf
EssEm
<peter....@swipnet.se> wrote:
>
>You want to talk dialects? then try geordie from Newcastle-upon-Tyne in
>northern England for a beauty following close behind is the village of
>Cullybacky in Northern Ireland with its amasing version of english which
>leaves visitors helpless in the face of relentlessly helpfull villagers ( so
>thats why that british army patrol ended up south of the border.......)
>fortunately as a practitioner of Scouse I can cofuse them buggers just as
>easily :)))
>Beowulf
>
Or, as my Geordie grandfather used to say, "Gibbowar, ye booger" then
something about "Waugh Jinnie", IIRC. My mum is technically a Geordie
(South Shields lass) but arrived here in Oz at about age 4 in 1926. So
her accent is 100% strine.
Steve
Newcastle (NOT on-Tyne) Oz
Pac Man
<Froggy> wrote in message news:3ef4b506....@news.mindspring.com...
>
> Son, I say SON, You're not so far off there, I say, not so far off
atall<G>
Reminds me of a quote from Abe Lincoln... Something to the effect of
"I'd like to get a native of Alabama and a native of Maine in the same room
and see if they could communicate."
And it could be worse, Froggy... "Hey, bahtendah, gimme some beahs ovah
heah!" "I got Budweisah, Millah Lite, Cooiz, Coroner..." "We'll take a
Coroner and two Millah Lites."
Take a wild stab at that "wicked pissa" accent... ;-)
Paul A. Cutler III
*************
Weathah Or No Go New Haven
*************
Pac Man
<Froggy> wrote in message news:3ef37e77...@news.mindspring.com...
<snip>
> Also, since there is nobody in the world who models CNJ, it probbly
wouldn't be a
> marketing problem.
> Nobody models Joisy Central...dooday?
> Naaawwwwww.......................F>
Actually, I know two. One is a member of my RR club, the other is a
former member who is actually on r.m.r (tho' not often). If you see a "Ross
Kudlick" in here, start asking him about the CNJ... ;-)
Paul A. Cutler III
*************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*************
Froggy
>
> Take a wild stab at that "wicked pissa" accent... ;-)
It allus sounded more like "wicket" to me as in "wicket good beah"
>
>Paul A. Cutler III
>*************
>Weathah Or No Go New Haven
>*************
My friend from long ago, Steve Trefeathen was from Mass. Looked, acted and sounded
like a very young James Cagney.
Lincoln should have taken an Alabamian and someone from Brooklyn or Queens and tried
to get them to communicate.
I am originaly from Alabama (the Gulf Coast) but do not consider that I have an
overpowering southern accent. some, of course, but not really thick. I lived in New
Orleans too and can drop into Nawlinspeak in a microsecont. Some of the most
difficult accents for me to understand are the area around New York City, Boston and
surrounds and deep rural Dixie. Appalachia is not an accent, it is a foreign
language. Utterly incomprehensable.
We should trade sound bytes <G>
Froggy
> Actually, I know two. One is a member of my RR club, the other is a
>former member who is actually on r.m.r (tho' not often). If you see a "Ross
>Kudlick" in here, start asking him about the CNJ... ;-)
Actually I was only clowning around. I am sure that if the GM&O has a following in
Dixie, which ain't 'zackly a hotbed of model railroading activity, that the CNJ
probably has many loyal fans and modelers. CNJ had a really nice livery prior to that
blue and orange one.
Which brings up an interesting question. Interesting to me anyway. What happened in
the Northeast? NYC lightning Stripe, Pennsy "Cat Whiskers" Hew Haven, B&M, MEC,
CNJ..........all had very attractive liveries. then, suddenly, they all seemed to
commit aesthetic hara-kiri. McGinnis savaged the New Haven and the B&M. What about
the others?
............F>
Brian Paul Ehni
"Froggy" <Froggy> wrote:
It costs more to paint those pretty multi-color schemes than it does to
douse with only one color. Add in the masking time for stripes, and there's
your answer. Labor expense.
Brian
cros...@charter.net
>On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:35:42 GMT, "Pac Man" <cut...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Actually, I know two. One is a member of my RR club, the other is a
>>former member who is actually on r.m.r (tho' not often). If you see a "Ross
>>Kudlick" in here, start asking him about the CNJ... ;-)
>
>Actually I was only clowning around. I am sure that if the GM&O has a following in
>Dixie, which ain't 'zackly a hotbed of model railroading activity, that the CNJ
>probably has many loyal fans and modelers. CNJ had a really nice livery prior to that
>blue and orange one.
I know a CNJ modeler not too far from you in "The City Too Busy To
Hate, Unless There's Money In It For Me"...
Pac Man
<Froggy> wrote in message news:3ef754b2...@news.mindspring.com...
>
> Which brings up an interesting question. Interesting to me anyway. What
happened in
> the Northeast? NYC lightning Stripe, Pennsy "Cat Whiskers" Hew Haven,
B&M, MEC,
> CNJ..........all had very attractive liveries. then, suddenly, they all
seemed to
> commit aesthetic hara-kiri. McGinnis savaged the New Haven and the B&M.
What about
> the others?
Well, tell me what a "Hew Haven" is, and I'll get back to you... Oh,
you mean New Haven??? Um, right, sorry. Anyways...
The New Haven "McGinnis" scheme (created by Herbert Matter, who was
working for Knoll Associates at the time and was retained by Mrs. McGinnis)
is actually a railroad success story. People recognize it today, and even
tho' it's over 45 years old, and it still holds up well to modern designs.
After all, how many other schemes that old are being painted on brand new
equipment? UP for certain, but other than that, it's NH black, white and
orange.
It also has to be a leading factor as to why the New Haven is such a
popular road. I know many more NH modelers than I do New York Central
modelers; could it be because NYC was black, white and grey? (read:
b-o-o-o-ring) :-)
Anyway, McGinnis didn't really "savage" the NH: he didn't really get the
chance (he was Pres. for less than 2 years). It was Alpert who was in
charge when the RR went belly up in 1961 (it probably should have entered
bankruptcy in 1959 or so). And, as much as McGinnis is maligned, he did not
go about lining his own pockets with NH cash: that was done by both
Dulmaines (Fredrick and Buck).
Really, the last good RR president that the NH had was Howard Palmer,
who guided the RR through the bankruptcy of the Great Depression, bought the
DL-109's (hey, I'm back on topic!), and manuvered the RR through WWII.
'Course, he had a large influx in cash caused by German U-Boats to help out
the bottom line, but he did his job without any notable errors.
Most of this info has been gleaned from long discussions with the author
of a brand new New Haven book now on the slow boat from China called "The
New Haven Railroad in the Patrick B. McGinnis Era" by Marc Frattasio. So
check your bookstores for the story of one of the more colorful RR
presidents of the post-war era.