KD coupler installation for Athearn genesis
Walter Freedman
After the pain of the ditch lights, I now find that the coupler boxes
do not seem to be deep enough to accept a Kadee coupler and spring
(tighten lid screw and the coupler won't swing.)
Would appreciate suggestions other than using McHenry or equiv.
Walt Freedman
Sausalito California
David R. Campbell
Walt,
I always file the cast on box off and mount a #5 in the Kadee box. I have
used this method on my -9's and AC units. On the Genesis shown I believe I
had to file the top of the hole in the pilot a bit also.
I check the height with a Kato GP35 or with my CSX SD50 as shown. Those MM
factory couplers furnished with the SD70's are junk. Always use a Kadee.
See the photos at:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=359582&a=8638051
Let me know if you can view the photos. I posted a few concerning my
methods for correcting my Kato SD40-2's and received no comments like
there was something wrong with the link.
Best regards,
David Campbell
Norton, VA
Walter Freedman
<sout...@bellatlantic.net> wrote (see below):
>I always file the cast on box off and mount a #5 in the Kadee box.
David, many tx for the very prompt response - but Ouch! I feared as
much. Why can't Athearn seem to come up with a kadee-comptaible
mounting system? I'm so happy I limited myself to just 2 units and
canceled 4 more I originally had on order after reading early
"reviews" on this newsgroup..
Walt Freedman
Sausalito California
David R. Campbell
You are quite welcome Walt. I agree with your comments about a Kadee
compatible mounting system. The factory couplers on my two units were to
low to start with anyway. Several other units owned by other club
members were also low.
For my money I wish the manufacturers would simply leave the other
pretend (non Kadee) couplers off and make a generic mounting that
works. A flat pad with a 2-56 screw hole at the correct height for a
Kadee #5 in the Kadee box. Like Kato?
The only non Kadee product that I like is the McHenry's that are made as
a direct replacement in Rivarossi steam locos. I have replaced a few for
a friend (I don't own a steam loco myself) and they fit right in making
that conversion very easy. He does not load them so no telling how they
would perform long term.
Walter Freedman
<sout...@bellatlantic.net> wrote (see below):
>The factory couplers on my two units were to
>low to start with anyway.
Did not check my first unit - rear coupler was jammed open/broken leaf
spring anyway. Just checked 2nd unit - rear is jammed similarly and
too low - front is too high!
>For my money I wish the manufacturers would simply ..... make a generic mounting that
>works.
I like the Atlas system with removable coupler box - seems to take the
factory-issue or KD #5 just fine. I have about 2 dozen Athearns of
all vintages and have yet to come across one that accepts a Kadee
reliably without some machining/tapping a hole for a 2x56 screw etc.
Disappointing.
Walt Freedman
Sausalito California
Walter Freedman
accept Kadees, I thought I'd post all the mods I made to my Athearn
Genesis SD75 I (BNSF) during assembly over the last 3 days. A lot of
work - more than I have had to do on any of the "defective" Kato
SD40-2's - which were about the same price mail order. (Attn:
Kato-bashers!)
Couplers: Ground off/files pocket sides to give flat pad. Widened
pilot holes and took a bit off bottom with #11 knife. Used Kadee #234
box (rounded nose, no lip on lid) & #5 (with plow). ACC'd 0.02" shim
at bottom front of spring, spring on bottom. Kadee 2 x 56 plastic
screws.
PC Board; Opened all holes with #67 drill for trucks and rear light,
#66 for front/ditch lights. (Pulled all wires to remove deck do the
mods to the coupler pockets - hard to rethread wires in original holes
especially front 2 center to add ditch light leads).
Ditch Lights; Assembled the housing, cut off the "wings" and
carefully drilled out the holes, both diameter and height with #54
drill. Ditch lights are now nice and bright since bulb is higher up
in housing.
Worms: Added 2 x NWSL 1103-4 .01" thrust washers to each worm to
reduce play.
Truck detail parts: Opened up mounting holes for brake cylinders w.
#54 drill, shocks/retainer with #68 - all acc'd. Opened mounting
holes for sanding lines with #67 drill using a "sawing" action.
Runs pretty smooth - I'm actually impressed that, on throttle up, it
starts to move before one of my new Atlas GP-40's I had on the track
to check starting voltage.
On to my SD70M.
Walt Freedman
Sausalito California
Walter Freedman
On my BNSF SD75 I , cutting off the plough (Xuron cutters) and
drilling out the mounting hole (#54 drill), I found that DW 155 plough
(the correct one for this model - open doors) fits exactly - mounting
holes and all.
Also, A-line 29210 sunshades, while a little big/long, fit the
predrilled holes exactly too.
So 2 easy upgrades. Looks like this may apply to all the SD70/75
models.
Walt Freedman
Sausalito California
Joshua
Walter Freedman
wrote (see below):
Re:
>.... ACC'd 0.02" shim
>at bottom front of spring, spring on bottom. Kadee 2 x 56 plastic
>screws.
OOPS - that is a 0.01" shim, not 0.02"
Walt Freedman
Sausalito California
David R. Campbell
Impressive illustrations Joshua, my method exactly. I need a way to mill
that material off, for now I am simply removing the cast coupler box
with a file. I need to try ripping a whisker out of the cat's face
next.
David Campbell
Norton, VA
rathburne
the Santa Fe ones!
Did you do anything to the motors of the Athearn SD40-2 etc?
Or just leave them stock or factory?
In article <39BD140E...@fibre.A2000.nl>,
--
Rathburne
Visit http://communities.msn.com/BubbasBendRailfanandClearCutSociety
Some good real-train pictures
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
George Fernandez
says...
Kadee #5 centering spring and coupler in both of the molded on boxes and
found no problems.
Those @#$%* ditch light are a bit of a pain though. and the windsheild
wipers, don't get me started on those :-)
--
George Fernandez
Member
NMRA(www.nmra.org)
Union Pacific Historical Society
SSMRC(www.ssmrc.org)
Walter Freedman
<sout...@bellatlantic.net> wrote (see below):
>..... I need a way to mill
>that material off, for now I am simply removing the cast coupler box
>with a file. I need to try ripping a whisker out of the cat's face
>next.
David - I used a dremel with a "high speed cutter" bit #194. Fast.
Does need a steady hand.
Let me know if you need antenna wires. I think my beagle's moultings
will do fine - and he donates with a wag. Black, brown, white - your
choice! (Great ideas, Jos)
Walt Freedman
Sausalito California
Joshua
> Did you do anything to the motors of the Athearn SD40-2 etc?
> Or just leave them stock or factory?
I only "tune" them a little, so I will run them as they are, never heard
a quiet diesel. Maybe the need -to repower them- will arise after I
experienced some running sessions on my (to be finished) layout. I think
that the most important thing is a good power controller.
Jos
Walter Freedman
wrote (see below):
>... a Kadee #5 and spring, and if you try you have a "live"
>coupler which is in violation of the NMRA's standards-
>no coupler mount should be live with respect to either
>running rail.
Fred - Genesis SD 7X series has the truck wheel wipers wired to a PC
board so the frame is electrically isolated (ala Kato). But I did use
a coupler pocket and the Kadee plastic screws just in case!
Walt Freedman
Sausalito California
Fred Dabney
> >coupler which is in violation of the NMRA's standards-
> >no coupler mount should be live with respect to either
> >running rail.
>
> Fred - Genesis SD 7X series has the truck wheel wipers wired to a PC
> board so the frame is electrically isolated (ala Kato). But I did use
> a coupler pocket and the Kadee plastic screws just in case!
I missed that. As I said I haven't really dug into mine yet.
But I still don't like live couplers since one Athearn unit,
coupled back to back with a Genesis, coupled to another Athearn
stock unit can and will short between the outside units and
will drive the user nuts trying to figure out what's going
on.
> Sausalito California
OK, what in heck is a "sausal" that one can have a small one of?
Fred D.
Walter Freedman
wrote (see below):
>> Sausalito California
>
>OK, what in heck is a "sausal" that one can have a small one of?
Sausal = great white shark such as prey off our coast :-)
Sausalito (originally Saucelito) = shark [ of undefined size :-) ] in
Spanish, I believe - and we do have a quite a "herd" out here -
Pacific salmon, and seals off the Farellone Islands just outside the
Golden Gate make a yummy pantry.
Walt Freedman
Sausalito California
Fred Dabney
> compatible mounting system. The factory couplers on my two units were
to
> low to start with anyway. Several other units owned by other club
> members were also low.
Basic rule with any Athearn loco.
Keeping in mind that they cost a lot less than the competition, it
stands to reason they cut a few corners here and there to hold the
price down.
Having said that, before you do /any/ work on an Athearn chassis,
be sure it is flat. Most are slightly bent with the center higher
than the ends, and that will affect coupler height.
After you true the frame, be sure both ends are the same height,
as truck mounts can also be off- I'm presently working on one
of the older SD40-2 models, and not only was the frame, as usual
bent like a banana but the truck mounts themselves needed leveling
as otherwise one side of the engine was very much higher than the
other. Both tasks were the work of minutes and required no special
tools other than a good straight edge and a level surface bigger
than the length of the chassis.
Since I always take the trucks apart to paint the inner steel plate
that the wheels fit in, it required almost no additional work than
I'd already done: Taking the trucks off the frame and taking
them apart. I bent the flap the frame rests on in the truck
until it was level, and used a long piece of steel key stock
as a lever to bend the frame.
It was important since there is almost half the amount of metal
to remove to get the coupler pocket right, should I choose to
frame mount them. And it just looks better, not to mention the
fact that the model is no longer banking for a severe turn.
However, I will be body mounting the couplers anyway.
I've not done much with my Genesis models yet. I've got
several other projects to do before our club's open house
during the forthcoming "Southern New Mexico State Fair", the
end of this month.
But I've been mulling over the comments offered by others,
as well as thoughts of my own as I've fiddled with one- a
sacrifice unit probably as I try things that work and things
that don't.
For the wipers, I'll probably make a template from shim brass
that I can use to locate the holes in the cab front. I've found
bulbs that better fit the ditch lights (to get brighter lights)
but I'm almost certainly going to replace the bulbs on most
of mine with MV lenses. Working lamps just don't excite me
all that much, and in service they are just one more thing
to worry about breaking- a reason I also don't get hot about
DCC. I think I already mentioned that after a lot of fiddling
I got a set wired, only to have two bulbs burn out shortly
after...
I've twiddled with the trucks a bit, since several of mine
don't quite sit flat on the rails- the brass pickup/bearing
strips in some aren't true. Easy but on a model at that
price level it shouldn't be necessary, but they are new at
this game and we'll have to see what develops in future
models in the line.
But of all the gripes, I agree the stock coupler mounting
on the SD70 series is the pits. They take the McHenry
design OK, if too low, but every model I've seen- mine and
several others all have smashed McHenry couplers as they
are delivered, and the cast on pocket just doesn't accept
a Kadee #5 and spring, and if you try you have a "live"
coupler which is in violation of the NMRA's standards-
no coupler mount should be live with respect to either
running rail. That one's unambiguous, but no Athearn
model follows that standard, alas...
Luckily, I have a milling machine, but not very many
typical modelers do. And no model like that should
require a customer to have that sort of tool!
Fred D.
Roland Williams
the bronze spring in then the coupler look at the plastic cover to see
which side is top (the screw should met the angled side of the screw
hole). tighten the screw enough to allow the coupler the swing and
return to center and still hold on the cover.
ROLAND
Rich Strebendt
> > >... a Kadee #5 and spring, and if you try you have a "live"
> > >coupler which is in violation of the NMRA's standards-
> > >no coupler mount should be live with respect to either
> > >running rail.
> >
> > Fred - Genesis SD 7X series has the truck wheel wipers wired to a PC
> > board so the frame is electrically isolated (ala Kato). But I did use
> > a coupler pocket and the Kadee plastic screws just in case!
>
> I missed that. As I said I haven't really dug into mine yet.
> But I still don't like live couplers since one Athearn unit,
> coupled back to back with a Genesis, coupled to another Athearn
> stock unit can and will short between the outside units and
> will drive the user nuts trying to figure out what's going
> on.
I have found that the easiest way to finesse this problem is to use the
20-series coupler that is a #5 clone (#26?). It is made of an "engineering
plastic" and seems to do the job as well as a metal coupler. I have had
engines with 20-series couplers on the point of HO trains of more than 50
cars, and the couplers exhibited no unusual behavior (deflecting, jaw
opening, etc.). They certainly are much more reliable than the non-Kadee
clones that have hit the market!
--
Richard Strebendt
rstre...@lucent.com
Fred Dabney
the
> 20-series coupler that is a #5 clone (#26?). It is made of an
"engineering
> plastic" and seems to do the job as well as a metal coupler. I have
had
> engines with 20-series couplers on the point of HO trains of more than
50
> cars, and the couplers exhibited no unusual behavior (deflecting, jaw
> opening, etc.). They certainly are much more reliable than the
non-Kadee
> clones that have hit the market!
True, the Delrin shank KD couplers are a lot more robust than
any of the KDC's save the P2K, but it combines the worst features
of the true KD and the McHenry: it uses that damned keystone butt
design and the associated centering spring (which is what I don't
like about the Kadee) and the finger spring for the knuckle.
But it does have a husky shank that just doesn't bend under
load.
If one doesn't run long trains, the McHenry coil knuckle spring
is pretty reliable but they bend too easily for the trains we
can run on our club layout.
But never-the-less, there is an NMRA standard regarding insulating
couplers from frames and electrical systems that Athearn doesn't
follow, and other makers have shown it isn't all that difficult
to do...
Fred D.
Fred Dabney
Offset shank couplers are a slob's way out. They look terrible,
they are far more easily broken in service and if a centered
shank doesn't fit, the model is broken. /Real/ cars and locos
don't use them and if some models can be fitted with insulated
centered couplers, why in hell can't they all?
Fred D.
Roland Williams
modelers at my clubs. I have yet to see someone say on even notice the
offset couplers I use. My locos usually look so real I guess they don't
pay attention to the offset of the couplers. Besides I was just offering
a quicker and easy solution rather than : Remove shell, walkway, trucks,
motor, circuit board, motor mount. Give frame an acid wash, let dry,
place in oven at 500 degrees for one hour or until glowing, remove (must
have steel workers gloves, can be picked up at your local steel mill),
while glowing remove old coupler pockets, with jaws ol life. Purchase
Train Daddy's Prototypical Plutonium Coupler Pockets. MIG weld to frame,
use level, reverse what you did to install motor,shell,lighting, now for
the hard part reinstall ditch lights. Also I have never broken any KD
couple under normal use. I have had 4-5 engines pull 65 car heavy coal
trains.
ROLAND
Fred Dabney
Roland Williams <AOLa...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28767-39...@storefull-135.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Well FRED I guess I am a slob. Funny though I am one of the best
> modelers at my clubs.
OK, I was needlessly harsh, and I apologize for my intemperate
language.
However, I really /don't/ like offset couplers. I see them, and
they bother me. And they are the only Delrin Kadee's where I've
snapped a shank in service. Same for that matter with the
Zamak ones.
Most of the time, I just hack the frame mount off altogether
and build a body mount. It also lets me correct what is often
a far too great unit spacing.
Alas, with more and more of my units having plows, I have to
live with even greater spacing else the trip pins on the
adjacent cars foul on the plows and either uncouple or
derail. And the club requires working magnetic uncoupling
on all equipment so I can't chop the pins off all my cars.
I have yet to see someone say on even notice the
> offset couplers I use. My locos usually look so real I guess they
don't
> pay attention to the offset of the couplers. Besides I was just
offering
> a quicker and easy solution rather than : Remove shell, walkway,
trucks,
> motor, circuit board, motor mount.
Up to this point, it's what I do on all my units anyway. I make
a point of cleaning up the electrical system on Athearn, cleaning
the fuel tanks as well. If I need to paint the engine (I still
do more undecs than factory paint) I have to take it apart anyway.
So, while it's apart, why not fix things including coupler mounts?
I bought a milling machine years ago to use, not to decorate my
bench and let me say "I have a milling machine". In fact, I
have two Unimats and a Sherline and they get used for a lot
of projects.
Fred D.