Gorre & Daphetid fire?
Peter T. Prunka
>I recall from the Kalmbach book that it was a faulty water heater, but
>I may be wrong.
That is one of two versions promulgated. The insurance company claimed faulty
layout wiring. The Monterey FD put it down to "electrical fire of unknoiwn
origin."
>For those interested, and I figure this will cause some flames.... I'm
>building yet another leased SD 40-2 for my CPRS. This time it is from
>the Gorre and Dapheited. I have no interest in trying to model steam
>and always wanted something G&D for my layout, so I thought, what the
>hell! I know John Allen would never run diesels (Except for ads) but
>I've always appreciated his work and thought it would be a treat to
>do.
>Dana
If you are going to build a diesel (shudder) purporting to be from the G&D, at
least spell it correctly! D-A-P-H-E-T-I-D . Thanks.
Peter T. Prunka
Avalon, Tintagel & Santa Fe Rwy.
Don Mitchell
>
>I happened to catch this in the letter's column of the 4/73 Model
>Railroader, talking about the fire that destroyed John Allen's Gorre &
>Daphetid layout shortly after he died.
>
>"On January 17 his home containing the famous Gorre & Daphetid was
>destroyed by a fire. The session occurred shortly after an operating
>session by some of John's friends..."
>
>I was curious whether the cause of the fire was ever discovered (arson,
>careless cigarette butt disposal, oily rags, electrical short, etc.).
>Anyone have any knowledge?
>--
After the local fire department blamed faulty wiring as the cause, John's
brother hired a private investigator to determine if that was correct. The
investigator conclusively proved it was started by the underfloor-mounted
heater for the house.
John never used the heater to the best of knowledge of myself and the other G&D
operators. He had built part of the scenery in the Cold Shoulder area up
around the heater. Ironically, the heater was turned on by his relatives when
they came after John's death. The G&D operators held an operating session to
show them how the layout worked, and to discuss what might be done to preserve
the layout. In the early morning hours after that session, the scenery
and supporting framing around the heater burst into flame.
Don Mitchell donm...@cts.com
Dana John Nield
>I happened to catch this in the letter's column of the 4/73 Model
>Railroader, talking about the fire that destroyed John Allen's Gorre &
>Daphetid layout shortly after he died.
>"On January 17 his home containing the famous Gorre & Daphetid was
>destroyed by a fire. The session occurred shortly after an operating
>session by some of John's friends..."
>I was curious whether the cause of the fire was ever discovered (arson,
>careless cigarette butt disposal, oily rags, electrical short, etc.).
>Anyone have any knowledge?
>--
I recall from the Kalmbach book that it was a faulty water heater, but
I may be wrong.
For those interested, and I figure this will cause some flames.... I'm
building yet another leased SD 40-2 for my CPRS. This time it is from
the Gorre and Dapheited. I have no interest in trying to model steam
and always wanted something G&D for my layout, so I thought, what the
hell! I know John Allen would never run diesels (Except for ads) but
I've always appreciated his work and thought it would be a treat to
do.
Dana
Dana John Nield - York University, Canada.
--------------------------------------------
"History is little else than a picture of human crimes and misfortunes."
"In this country [England] it is well to kill from time to time an admiral to encourage the others."
"It is said that God is always on the side of the heaviest battalions."
"Love truth, but pardon error."
Voltaire
Craig Nolan
Prunka) writes:
>
>In article <4hodlt$a...@sunburst.ccs.yorku.ca> yu12...@yorku.ca (Dana
John Nield) writes:
>
but
>>I may be wrong.
>
faulty
>layout wiring. The Monterey FD put it down to "electrical fire of
unknoiwn
>origin."
>
I'm
>>building yet another leased SD 40-2 for my CPRS. This time it is from
>>the Gorre and Dapheited. I have no interest in trying to model steam
>>and always wanted something G&D for my layout, so I thought, what the
>>hell! I know John Allen would never run diesels (Except for ads) but
>>I've always appreciated his work and thought it would be a treat to
>>do.
>
>>Dana
>
need in this hobby.....But to keep alive a name that even he grew tired
of???
BTW it took my Years to figure out the right Pronounciation for
"Gorre & Daphetid"
Well thats what happens when you glean most of your information from
reading
Craig Nolan
Sierra Valley RR
pit$...@altair.selu.edu
Railroader's back covers. In watching the video i seem to remember someting
about BOTH Gorre & Dephited Layouts ending in fire. Didn't the First one Burn
before Allen's Death?
--
##
# Dave Coon
# Student of Technology and Sociology
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jK ,Z" jK ,Z" *jn ,j jK (504)542-5934 School Apartement
'NbpY"V^ 'NbpY"V^ dF 'NbpP (504)767-2620 Home Number
Tom Madden
: I'll probably get flamed to death for this... But what's the fascination
: everyone has with the G&D? Being only 32yrs old I wasn't around when it
: was the big thing, but looking at pictures of it I'm not very impressed.
: It looks more like a caricature than a real railroad. Just MHO...
Let's put it this way. I'll be 60 later this year, and have been an active
HO modeler for over 45 of those years. I would not take your youth in
trade for the excitement John Allen's G&D photos gave me during the 50's
and 60's. I still feel it when I look at them, all these years later.
That's subjective. This is not: there had been great modelers and great
layouts before John Allen, but he was the first one to put the whole
package together. No one before had weathered _everything_ on their
layout, and few had been as skilled in photographing and presenting their
work. The G&D that leaped off those magazine pages into our imaginations
was a complete railroad, and everything on it (even the work dino) looked
like it just plain belonged. That's the rule these days, but we had never
seen anything like it. John set the standard for the great modelers and
layouts of today. That some of them surpass the G&D does not diminish
John's accomplishments.
John and the G&D passed into legend when both were taken from us in the
blink of an eye. John never had to go through old age, we never had to ask
"what ever happened to...", we never had to watch the G&D fall into
disrepair. It all seemed so....... fitting.
Flame you? Let's try "pity". :-)
Tom "sorry for the eloquence" madden
--
===============================================================
| Tom Madden |"People get lives, wander off for a bit,|
| Boulder, CO |and when they come back the newer faces |
| tma...@netcom.com |don't recognize them." Barbara Hamel |
===============================================================
Andy Harman
>My father as a young boy marveled at the Varney ads featuring the G&D on Model
>Railroader's back covers. In watching the video i seem to remember someting
>about BOTH Gorre & Dephited Layouts ending in fire. Didn't the First one Burn
>before Allen's Death?
The first layout was small, about 5x9' I believe, and was incorporated
into the second layout. The second layout was dismantled when John
moved to a different house, I believe the only part of it that was
kept was the original 5x9 G&D layout, which was then incorporated into
the third and final G&D and perished along with it in the fire.
Andy
Michael Powell
I'll just add my 2 cents worth (or two pence, actually 'cos I'm a Brit)
I first saw the G and D in one of those big colour coffee table type
books when I was about 9 or ten. As far as I was concerned, the G and D
was REAL even if I couldn't pronounce the name... I must have taken that
book out a dozen times, just to see the photos of the G and D.
I had been sort of interested in model trains before, but just the trains
- this was my first inkling that it was possible to build a miniature
world around a model railroad.
I moved house when I was 11, and the village I moved to had no Library.
I've never seen that book since, but I can still feel the excitement I
had seeing those marvellous photographs of the G and D. Occasionally I
see a photo now and I think "well, it does look kinda caricatured" and
for that reason I've hesitated to buy a book, or find out more about the
layout. I guess I'd be sad to lose the beautiful, powerful memory of the
pleasure I got all those years ago from someone who I would never meet,
in a world that only existed in a basement in America.
So the G and D is a small piece of magic, seen through a childs eye for
all time and that's the way it'll stay for me.
I'm not blind to the imperfections of the G and D, and I've seen a lot of
fine layouts since - maybe even better ones - but you know how it is,
that first time you see something really special.
Now I'm 32, and I still haven't built a railroad that makes me feel like
I did when I saw the G and D all those years ago, but I keep trying and
keep enjoying the hobby, becuase John Allen showed what could be done.
regards,
Michael Powell
Don Mitchell
John Allen's modeling goals than perhaps any other layout has before
or since.
Weathering was only one of the techniques that John made acceptable
to the hobby. Forced perspective is another. Some include this
among the things they refer to as cartoonish, but there are several
well-known HO layouts that include N-scale buildings for the same
reason. None, to my knowledge, come close to what John achieved.
Trains ran as well or better than they do now, and that includes
Kato. Operation on the G&D was absolutely astonishing for the time,
but was overlooked because of the mind-stunning appearance the
layout presented to its contemporaries. I was fortunate to be an operator
during the period when John tested [and I mean *tested*, not *tried*]
several different operating systems. His unique system best served
his circumstances, and I still believe it to be the best system for
a layout that has frequent [several per week] visitors who were
handed throttles and told [not asked -- John could be forceful ;-) ]
to operate.
Those who take the time to study and analyze, and not just look at,
photos of John's work can still learn a lot that has yet to be even
discussed in the model railroad media. It is only one aspect of the
G&D that can be compared, in the model world, to the equivalent of
special effects in today's movies and tv programs. Perhaps time will
bring exposure to some of his other revolutionary concepts in the
hobby.
Don Mitchell donm...@cts.com
R Blanchard
> I'll probably get flamed to death for this... But what's the fascination
> everyone has with the G&D? Being only 32yrs old I wasn't around when it
> was the big thing, but looking at pictures of it I'm not very impressed.
> It looks more like a caricature than a real railroad. Just MHO...
> =
> Chris
Find some of the MR mags from the 50s and early 60s to see the impact =
John was making on the entire hobby. There are articles that he wrote =
that lifted model railroading away from 'toy train running'.
If someone listed all the 'firsts' that he came up with, you would see =
what his impact and the G&D has even today. Few contemporary layouts =
have as much in terms of depth of research and completeness that the =
G&D had. Everything worked together - track, trains, scenery, =
operations. Throw in humor and practical jokes, and there is more than =
just plaster, plastic, and bits of brass.
What I am curious about is just what you are modeling that makes the =
G&D look so unimpressive?
Rick Blanchard z=AC
Rick Shoup
of scenery and operation. Remember this was in the early days after WWII.
Very few modelers had John's creativity or mechanical skills to
accomplish what he did. I saw the pike in 1966. Still one of the very
best I have ever seen and I have been going to conventions for about 30
years. He was like the NMRA is today...A Leader and inovator. He also was
a highly skilled photographer.
To give you a simple challenge, make a photo of a model steam loco showing
motion. John was the first to do it well enough to be published.
My address is 1810 Bunker Hill Dr. Sun City Center FL. I would be
delighted to see a photo by you showing motion.
Regards................Rick
Rick Shoup
I forgot to say that the first layout was incorporated in the last and
thus both burned when the house burned.
Rick
Len Kaplan
>By today's standards, his layout looks quaint and cartoony
Certainly no more than a lot of what is published in "Narrow Gauge and
Short Line Gazette" nowadays! I think that JA and Lane Stewart would be
good friends, Mr. Stewart seems to have the same view of the world that JA
had (Lane Stewart's models may be caricatures, but they seem plausible,
somehow).
In fact, I suspect that if JA were to be alive today, he'd be getting more
coverage in that magazine than in MR.
>- but if not
>for his work, we might not have our present standards. He showed us the
>way to go- and in a few places the way not to go.
I agree! I'm a relative newcomer to the hobby (I bought my first copy of MR
in 1979, and I'm still mostly an armchair model railroader), but I still
find lots of inspiration in what John Allen did. Maybe more than anything
else, it looks like he had _fun_ at whatever he was doing.
-Len