Help interpreting church plans
Leuf
the graphics database I found some scans of the plans to a
church/meetinghouse. I don't know to which actual building they
relate, it's certainly not the one actually at OSV. There's a front
elevation and a floor plan for the first and second levels. I'm
trying to pull out as much information from these as I can, and
perhaps someone here can help me with some educated guesses.
I've cleaned up the images a little and put them on my webspace, since
the image viewer at their site is a bit of a pain to navigate. I've
also included a few pictures of churches of similar structure I found
through google. I'll probably end up mixing and matching features
from all of these for a scratchbuild.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3kkvm/plans.html
1) I'm guessing the columns on the front are half columns attached to
the face of the building, not freestanding full columns.
2) Do the arched windows suggest the base of the structure is masonry?
3) What is with the corner blocks on the first level of the steeple?
The other levels have columns, it seems very out of place, and also
this is the only non arched window. I guess columns don't work on
this level because of the intersection with the roof, but it still
strikes me as odd they aren't used anywhere else.
4) Am I reading the writing at the bottom of the floorplan as "Plan 50
feet by 44. Projection 4 feet. 44 Pews on the lower floor + 16 in
the Galley"?
5) Does the floor plan show an interior wall with three doors at the
back of the pews? Something has to be supporting that steeple, but if
that is a wall it's a lot narrower than the exterior walls which would
suggest it isn't load bearing.
6) In the second actual church picture, is that copper on the top of
the steeple? And those have to be the biggest shutters I've ever seen
on the first level of the steeple! Do you think they open in or out?
It doesn't look like there are any hinges on the outside.
Thanks for any insights,
Leuf
Bill McCutcheon
"Leuf" <lege...@dontemailme.com> wrote in message
news:nou460dinsblmscaj...@4ax.com...
1) That's my guess, too.
2) Not to me.
3) Dunno.
4) Yes, except it's "gallery," not "galley."
5) I was in a church of somewhat similar design a couple of months
ago. It had three exterior doors similar to your plan and photos, a
shallow narthex (maybe 6-8', whereas it's 4' on your plan), and two or
three interior doors between the sanctuary and narthex. That church,
however, had only a choir loft on the upper level, and the stairs to
it were at one end of the narthex.
6) Dunno about the copper ... could be. (??) Re the large shutters
... the arches in the upper level of the plan's steeple are very
large, also.
-- Bill McC.
Gerard Pawlowski
Dear Leuf,
1. I agree with you and Bill.
2. I think so, especially considering the building's age. You
sometimes see arched windows on wooden buildings on later
buildings, but they were usually too rational for that in
the early 19th century.
3. I bet the steeple is wooden, and the corner blocks are an
attempt to make us think it isn't.
4. Right, Bill. That would be the projection of the narthex?
5. See number 3.
6. I think they're fixed louvers, not shutters. The roofing
material is certainly some kind of sheet metal, but whether
it is new, unweathered copper or something else painted red
I can't say. It could very well be lead sheet.
Cordially yours,
Gerard P.
Bill McCutcheon
"Gerard Pawlowski" <pawlo...@gannon.edu> wrote in message
news:12c3abd5.04032...@posting.google.com...
Taking a second look ...
There's no interior wall on either level; there are only the three
exterior doors on the ground level and no interior doors nor wall.
The plans indicate 16 pews in the gallery (the U-shaped balcony).
There are 6 along each side and 4 along the front wall. On the main
level, there are 9 rows of 4 pews plus 4 more pews on either side of
the altar, for the total of 44.
-- Bill McC.
Kent Ashton
>"Bill McCutcheon" <wjm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<Egw8c.39$58...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>> "Leuf" <lege...@dontemailme.com> wrote in message
> 6. I think they're fixed louvers, not shutters.
I agree. I assume there is (or was) a bell in the tower.
Louvers allow the sound out, and keep the birds/bats/critters out of
the bellfry.
That's likely a modern addition, however. The drawing doesn't show
them, and it doesn't strike me as something that would have been
original equipment on a 19th century building.
--
Kent Ashton | http://members.shaw.ca/kjashton -personal
kjas...@shaw.caNADA
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada | http://members.shaw.ca/TheRenegades -model rail
Leuf
Thanks for the responses, I'll respond to both of you here. Some more
research has turned up the ID of the second church, which is the one
I'm focusing on now. It's called "The Brick Church", is located in
Deerfield, MA and was built in 1824. That led me to a couple more
pictures, including two very helpful interior shots which answer a lot
of questions, and of course raise just as many new ones.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3kkvm/plans.html
"Gerard Pawlowski" <pawlo...@gannon.edu> wrote in message
news:12c3abd5.04032...@posting.google.com...
> 3. I bet the steeple is wooden, and the corner blocks are an
> attempt to make us think it isn't.
That's an interesting idea, and it makes sense.
> 6. I think they're fixed louvers, not shutters.
The interior shots would seem to indicate the steeple is completely
closed in, unless the access is tucked behind the pipe organ. So I
guess you're right there.
> The roofing
> material is certainly some kind of sheet metal, but whether
> it is new, unweathered copper or something else painted
> red I can't say. It could very well be lead sheet.
For my purposes, whether it's copper or something else painted to look
like newish copper I suppose it doesn't matter.
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:39:15 GMT, "Bill McCutcheon"
<wjm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Taking a second look ...
>
>There's no interior wall on either level; there are only the three
>exterior doors on the ground level and no interior doors nor wall.
How much in the way of supporting posts are there? In the Brick
Church interior shots I am struck by how little there is, and what
there is only supports the gallery. There's nothing from the gallery
to the roof. So we have a 40+ foot span, part of which has a steeple
on it. Those are some good trusses.
The most surprising thing to me is the dome ceiling. Do you think
that's original?
Leuf
MacIndoe
Leuf,
1. My guess would be that they are real columns, supporting a portico
for weather protection. (See #3 below for more.) A little like these:
http://www.20prints.com/photogallery/new_england_church.jpg
http://www.stumble.com/rjnemeth/ctchurch.jpg
2. Not necessarily. Here in Rhode Island wooden quoins (corner blocks):
http://ah.bfn.org/a/DCTNRY/q/quoin.html
and clapboards are quite common.
Here is a church in Providence:
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/fa267/18th/brown002.jpg
3. The quoins at the base of the steeple would look silly without
quoins on the two main stories. I think the columns are hiding quoins
on all of the outside corners of the main structure.
4. I don't know much about churches, I defer to the other two gents.
Having said that, a meeting house is not necessarily a church. It could
be just for town meetings.
5. Yes. This drawing is a bit crude, so I wouldn't go by the wall
thickness shown. It could be thinner and still carry some load, and the
steeple may not be all that heavy.
6.
a) I don't think it is copper. Copper would either be copper color
(duh) or green.
b) I think those are fixed louvers, to let the sound of the bell(s) out.
MacIndoe
Leuf
wrote:
>The most surprising thing to me is the dome ceiling. Do you think
>that's original?
I'll answer myself. Nope, it's very new:
"Originally the high pulpit was nearly level with the balconies and
was entered from the second floor vestibule. Possibly the builders
followed the custom of having the pulpit face west to the “Call of the
Last Trumpet.” This meant that in a building situated on the west side
of the street, the pulpit had to be placed at the front of the church.
In 1854 it was voted to lower the pulpit to its present height. It
remains the highest pulpit in Franklin County. The pews were of the
box type, which helped to reduce winter drafts in the unheated
building. "
"The interior decor has seen several alterations over the years,
reflecting the tastes of the times. In the past, the walls and ceiling
have been whitewashed, papered, elaborately frescoed, and painted.
Patterns have included trim on the wallpaper, bright stars on the
ceiling, and a rising sun design in the pulpit recess. In 1940 the
interior walls were painted a buff color with the pews remaining
white. The appearance of the church has remained essentially unchanged
until January 2000 when extensive restoration and decorating began to
prepare for the installation of a new tracker organ in 2001, by
Richards & Fowkes, Inc. of Ooltewah, TN. Now one sees newly painted
walls called “Deerfield Gray”; a domed ceiling with mesh fabric
applied prior to painting; a new brass chandelier affording major
improvement in lighting and designed and made by master craftsman,
Steve Smithers of Ashfield; new red pew cushions and pulpit upholstery
made by church member Bruno Lopez, professional upholsterer; carpeting
removed in side aisles; restored old wide floor boards; and
soon-to-be-completed new carpeting for the center aisle and stairs
leading to the balconies. "
Now I just have to figure out what the ceiling would have looked like
before the dome and I think I'm good to get going. Well, I suppose I
have to settle on a scale too, don't I? Dad has both O and HO, I've
built a few O structures for him. This will be the first one I'm
keeping for myself. I think HO is going to work a lot better for me
once I get going, I just don't know if I can pull off the structures
the way I like to build em. Start with a plank o wood and that is it.
But if I can pull this one off then I guess I can do just about
anything else I'll need. If it goes horribly wrong I can always start
over in O and just be out $5 in wood.
-Leuf
Leuf
wrote:
>"Originally the high pulpit was nearly level with the balconies and
>was entered from the second floor vestibule. Possibly the builders
>followed the custom of having the pulpit face west to the “Call of the
>Last Trumpet.” This meant that in a building situated on the west side
>of the street, the pulpit had to be placed at the front of the church.
I've really got to read more carefully, that explains everything. The
interior is backwards! I *thought* it looked like there was a window
where a door ought to be under the pipe organ, but I dismissed it as
an optical illusion caused by the column in the way. Duh! So there
is in fact an interior wall under the steeple.
-Leuf