AIRBRUSH vs. SPRAY PAINT
Michael Powell
painting plastic locos and rolling stock?? The one I can think of is that
you can use water-based paints when airbrushing, but I don't think they
are available in spray. Anybody got any others?
Mike
--
Denis F. Blake
Man, the main one is control of the paint, PERIOD..The airbrush will give
you a FAR superior finish than you can get with any can of paint. The
differences are so great I have no idea where to start explaining them to
you. But, let me say this, airbrush, the only way to go.
Denis F. Blake
Columbus, Ohio
TTHOTS
Visit my photosite at
http://hyperphoto.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=cano&u=1665499
"Michael Powell" <m...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
news:3c9cf...@news.iglou.com...
Train Man
Michael Powell wrote:
Spraying Rolling stock and Locos with:
Airbrush pros:
Control
Mix colors of your choice
Use any type of paint you want
Put paint exacly WHERE you want it
Less chance of runs and sags
Airbrush cons (in some cases):
Cost
Cleaning
Spray can pros:
Less setup time
Less cleanup time
For just a few peices, cost
Spray can cons:
No control
Like using a power washer to wash a paper plate
Greater chance for runs and sags
Paint goes where you want it plus everywhere else
Must rely on manufacturer for color mixes
Odor
That's for rolling stock.. For large brick buildings, I actually prefer
a spray can. Different spray primers work great for brick and concrete
type buildings.
Just a few of my opinions
Jeff
Fred Dabney
Probably the most important thing is control. An airbrush,
even a cheap one can be much better in tight spots, and
with not all that much practice one can do small things on
a finished model without splattering chunks of paint on
everything else.
Another big issue is choice. You are confined to what
the vendor puts in the can, but with an airbrush you
can make whatever color you want by mixing stuff.
An airbrush does have a long learning curve, and
some work better than others. I'm left handed and
like some makes better because they fit my style
better, others might sneer at what I use. Personally,
my brushes are Binks "Wren" and Paasche single
action, external mix. Which means nothing, probably...
Don't waste your time with the really cheap ones,
they aren't a lot better than a spray can, if as good.
Oddly, after you develop some technique you might
have better luck with a cheap paint thrower since
you know how to compensate for the shortcomings.
Harbor Freight sells one for about five to ten dollars,
and it's pretty poor. However, I have one I use for
nothing but silver paint for doing truck sideframes.
Fred D.
Froggy
Let's say you are in Charleston, South Carolina and you want to weigh the merits of
flying to Los Angeles VS. walking there.
Same kind of question.
The two acts are so far removed one from the other that there is no place to begin to
compare.
If you are hell-bent on spraying acrylics, go to Home Depot and buy a PreVal "do it
yourself" spray can kit. They are cheap and can be loaded with almost any liquid
that is thin enough to spray- even liquid butter. Get several of the cartridges as
you will need them. You will need to thin PollyScale and AccuFlex about 30 - 50%
with some Liquitex airbrush medium to get anything approaching acceptable results,
but you can do it. Alternately you can use a product made by the Flood company
called Flo-Trol also available at Home Depot in the paint dept.
Do this, and you are totally on your own. You will have to teach yourself how to do
it as I am quite sure that no one here has ever done it. Maybe I'll be surprised :-)
..........................F>
David J. Starr
and compressor. I'm still using them, but one of these days I'll get
that vintage Sears compressor in the basement running and learn to air
brush. That said, I have done some reasonable work with spray cans.
And you don't have to clean 'em, or mix paint, and you can change colors
by just picking up another can.
Useful colors are Red Auto Primer (does a good brick and a good boxcar
red), light gray auto primer, and dark gray auto primer. Dark gray is
just right for steam locomotives and heavy weight passenger car and milk
car roofs. All the primers are dead flat. Most of the other colors
available are gloss, which takes decals well and doesn't look too bad
under a coat of dull cote. I cheat a little bit and use gloss red under
dull cote for B&M passenger equipment. It's a little too red, but under
fluorescent lights it's not bad at all.
It's hard to control the spray can, too little and it comes out
'dusty', too much and you get sags and runs.
--
David J. Starr
Dst...@TheWorld.com
Steve Caple
> one of these days I'll get that vintage Sears compressor in
> the basement running and learn to air brush
I got one of those too.
Anybody know of a good source for a small (2 - 5 gal) portable pressure tank
I could pump up with the compressor and then run off that? [no noise, no
dragging an air hose up the basement stairs]
--
Steve, BFD
"The Silverplate Line"
KTØT
have them in the air tool section.
Bob
"Steve Caple" <steve...@spamworldnet.att.spamnet> wrote in message
news:MPG.1707f4169...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
Steve Caple
> Steve, check any automotive supply store; also, Sears and Home Depot should
> have them in the air tool section.
Already struck out at Home Depot; I'll check Tognatti's first. I was in
Sears not long ago to get a replacement heater element for the dryer; didn't
do a thorough search but one didn't jump out at me.
Funny thing, not a week after the heater element burnt out the (plastic
crap!!) knob that turns the switch developed a crack in the center tower
that fits over the flatted key shaft. Soap & water, alcohol brush down, air
dry, and then mixed up a little JB Weld (or any other gap filler epoxy).
Put a little in the cracks, clamped it tight, wiped a thin layer around the
outside, then wrapped a strip of filament tape around it. Another thin
layer of epoxy and a final filament wrap, swabbed the squeeze out from
inside the shaft holder and let it set overnight. Works great. Hope it
does a well as a little kitchen scale I fixed 20 years ago: small thin
swing out leg on the bottom (it's about 1" x 4" and needs a little outrigger
to stand up) got broken - about 1/16" thick. Epoxied it, thick on the
bottom, then cut some small strips of filament tape and bedded then in it on
either side of a minuscule central "stiffener" (ha!) ridge. After it set,
added a little more epoxy to seal in the tiny filament tape strips. It's
stronger than it ever was thanks to two-phase repair material.
Michael Powell
: Anybody know of a good source for a small (2 - 5 gal) portable pressure tank
: dragging an air hose up the basement stairs]
I got one at Lowes. I don't remember how much I put down for it now, but
it was not a whole lot.
Mike
MainStHtge
>: Anybody know of a good source for a small (2 - 5 gal) portable pressure
>tank
Bruce West
Main Street Heritage Models
http://www.mainstreet-heritage.com
Toss "wospam" to e-mail
MainStHtge
>: Anybody know of a good source for a small (2 - 5 gal) portable pressure tank
Take a look at Sears--I've seen them there. Maybe Harbor Freight as well.
Bruce
Mark Z.
> Anybody know of a good source for a small (2 - 5 gal) portable pressure tank
> I could pump up with the compressor and then run off that? [no noise, no
> dragging an air hose up the basement stairs]
Hi Steve,
I did a similar thing about 15 years ago with a small 5 gallon tank
which you can buy relatively cheaply at most hardware type stores.
Sometimes they go on sale. In any case, I also bought a $99 Sears
portable air compressor (these go on sale to) . My first air
compressor wore out and I am now on my second one. These are the type
of air compressors that are capable of 125 psi. I also bought a
"three nipple" air pressure gauge ( 4 nipple gauges are OK - just
close the fourth nipple) and built a small stand, made of plywood and
2x2 support posts, on casters. The size of the shelves is dependent
upon the size of the compressor & tank.
The bottom shelf holds the compressor and tank: tank towards back,
compressor, with controls, towards the front. On the top shelf I
drilled two round "rest" holes towards the front to hold both ½ ounce
& 1 ounce bottles of paint when I have to lay down the airbrush with
bottle attached (This won't work at all if you have a "cup"
airbrush.). I also keep all of my airbrush supplies on the top shelf
in small boxes. I have a wood molding lip around all 4 sides of the
top shelf to keep everything I have stored there remain there. I also
have a larger hole in the front right corner of the stand which holds
a plastic mustard jar with a small hole drilled through the bottom.
The mustard jar contains small rags which are replaced from
time-to-time. This mustard jar comes in handy when you want to "blow
out" and clean your airbrush between colors or when cleaning.
The hose from the compressor comes up through the top shelf near the
front left corner and connects with the air gauge that is which is
attached at an angle, on angled wood brackets, on the front of the
stand. The hose from the tank comes up through the rear of the top
shelf and, of course, it connects to the air gauge as well. The
airbrush hose connects directly to the air gauge right up front
I pump air from the compressor to the tank and stop at anywhere from
60 - 100 psi depending on the amount of painting I will be doing.
Then I shut off the valve from the compressor to the air gauge. The
valve from the tank to the pressure gauge remains open. Once I reduce
the pressure to about 30 psi, I then open the valve to the airbrush
line and am ready to paint. Sounds complicated but it really isn't.
I also have a front end moisture trap from the compressor to the tank
and a back-end, in-line moisture/particle filter in the airbrush hose.
And although no one has ever confused me with Thomas Edison, this
thing has worked so well for me I should have applied for a patent.
It has several advantages:
- A steady, non-pulsating stream of air (lessens the chance of
spattering)
- It is quiet. I was never fond on painting and having to hear the
pumping of a compressor at the same time - very annoying.
-As the whole thing is on casters and portable, I can wheel it around
to the layout to paint / weather track and/or scenery and conveniently
lay down the airbrush in one of the two holes on the stand. (You
don't need an extension cord once your supply of air is in the tank.)
- Dry, moisture free air
- And if my car tires are low on pressure, I just disconnect the
compressor and attach the tire valve head to the compressor hose.
Mark
P.S. I didn't really believe the advice until I tried it but an
in-bottle paint filter is also a MUST if you want to do quality
airbrush painting.
Ninebal310
>I could pump up with the compressor and then run off that? [no noise, no
>dragging an air hose up the basement stairs]
>
>--
>Steve, BFD
>"The Silverplate Line"
>
>
>
I just bought a 7 gal from AutoZone for 29.95. Another auto store had a 5
gal. for 22.99, and a 10 gal. for 35.99.
I am about to try airbrushing, and since I have a bigger compressor out in
my garage, I couldn't justify buying another compressor for something I know
nothing about. I will also get a regulator to adapt to the tank.
Good luck! We'll need it.
Hustlin' Hank
Ninebal310
What does the BFD stand for after your signature?
Hustlin' Hank
KTØT
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=522
$30 & $40 for air tanks.
--
73 de KTØT
Bob Schwartz
Modeling Waseca, MN in the 50s
"Michael Powell" <m...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
news:3c9f2...@news.iglou.com...
Steve Caple
> $30 & $40 for air tanks.
Found one in the store today; I'm wondering if their cheap regulators are
sensitive enough to set a good steady pressures on the order of 10 - 15 - 20
psi?
They had some large, but nice and cheap "extra hand" magnetic clamps for .79
each. I've already got a bunch of those magnets that used to hold the old
25 pin office telephone cable connector boxes up to your GI issue gray steel
desk - two small flat magnets with a steel plate between, in a plastic
holder - and an old VCR case top for a work tray. But these were nice and
large (looked like for welding). And the Chinese Prison Labor stamp on them
was real small.
--
Steve
Big Fork & Diehl RR
* DO NOT look into Laser with remaining eye! *
Steve Caple
> I also bought a "three nipple" air pressure gauge
are there valves on each of the in and out sides? _ARE_ there 'in' and
'out' sides? (I would assume, but I'm a pneumatic pnovice.)
I plan to run a line from the compressor upstairs to the train room, and
I think I will need a separate regulator on the outlet of the porta tank
there. I want to switch the compressor electrical outlet from upstairs too.
Is yours set up the way you described because you can use the same regulator
for output from the compressor or from the porta tank?
> I pump air from the compressor to the tank and stop at anywhere from
> 60 - 100 psi depending on the amount of painting I will be doing.
> Then I shut off the valve from the compressor to the air gauge.
Again, is this valve integral to the porta tank 3 nipple regulator, or one
you inserted in the line from the compressor?
And how much paint time does this give?
> The valve from the tank to the pressure gauge remains open. Once I
> reduce the pressure to about 30 psi, I then open the valve to the airbrush
> line and am ready to paint. Sounds complicated but it really isn't.
I'm sure if I could see it I'd understand.
> I also have a front end moisture trap from the compressor to the tank
> and a back-end, in-line moisture/particle filter in the airbrush hose.
That's exactly what I envisioned. I figure I'll put the tank, the in-feed
water trap and the outfeed in a car similar to what you described with a
paint booth box on top. I've got an old Papst 6" 110v fan to push air out
through 6" aluminum flex duct to a piece of plywood in a double hung window,
like an old window fan, but exhausting out. Just roll the cart out and over
to the window, put the exhaust board in place, hook up the duct, hook up the
hose (quick disconnects OK?) and flip on the conpressor switch. Compressor
noise stays downstaire, is absent once tank is up to pressure. Can still
roll around the layout minus paint booth. And as you said, clean dry air
free of pulsations and noise - and the compressor's still down in the
garage for tires, etc.
Glad to hear somebody has done it - and then some, from the sound of it.
Steve Caple
> What does the BFD stand for after your signature?
It's one of whatever sig comes up; and the reporting mark for the Big Fork &
Diehl RR, "The Silverplate Line". And naturally as president, ops manager,
maintenance officer and majority stockholder, I _AM_ the BFD in charge.
Mark Z.
Hi Steve,
I can answer all of your questions. I wrote an in-depth article with
pics on how to construct the system for one of the model RR mags a
bunch of years back. The article was rejected without reason. My
feeling is that the editor or whomever
at the mag had some reservations (read LIABILITY concerns) about
publishing an article for a device that could be imminently dangerous
to the user. Yes, compressed air is dangerous but the fact of the
matter is that there are a lot of things in this world that are
dangerous if the proper safety precautions are not followed. I think
it is a damn good article myself and I have covered safety issues in
the article. I also use the correct terminolgy in the article: port
instead of "nipple." I will email it to you within the week.
Regards,
Mark
Steve Caple
> Yes, compressed air is dangerous but the fact of the matter
> is that there are a lot of things in this world that are
> dangerous if the proper safety precautions are not followed.
Zheesh!! I wonder that they allow ads for power packs - after all, they
do attach to 110v.
Looking forward to reading it, and thanks in advance.
KTØT
gauge with one that shows lower pressures but that isn't essential. Placed
the regulator/filter at my paint window and it seems to work fine. I can set
and hold low pressures (20-30 psi and higher (50 psi) for Ceramcote paints.
No air tank at the painting location but it might help me paint longer
without the compressor kicking in. The tank at the compressor plus the long
air hose take out the pulsations.
My compressor is outside in the garage and I have run an air hose inside and
across the basement to the painting location. Also put a drop under the
train layout just in case. The compressor has a regulator too and I leave
that set at 120 psi for work in the garage. Quick Connects seem to work
fine, but check them with soapy water to be sure; I did have one develop a
leak - setting off the compressor periodically which my wife hates.
--
73 de KTØT
Bob Schwartz
Modeling Waseca, MN in the 50s
"Steve Caple" <steve...@spamworldnet.att.spamnet> wrote in message
news:MPG.1709c299d...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
David Lambert
I don't have an answer for you, but your question has sparked one of my own
<g>.
I am just getting started modeling with my son, and we're not real
sophisticated about any aspect of the hobby right now. I bought one of
Bachman's Spectrum structures the other day for $20 (clearance) and need to
paint it, so we went shopping. I had assumed that we'd just buy some cans
of spray paint, but I saw some Testors airbrush kits at Wal-Mart, and picked
up a double-action, internal mix kit for $40. Figured it was good enough
for a beginner.
Anyway, it came with a can of propellant, and that brings me to my question.
Are these not commonly used because they run out quickly, or because their
pressure varies during use, or is there some other reason? I'm not too
devastated either way, as this kit came with a compressor adaptor, but I was
expecting to get by with the canned air for a while.
TIA,
Dave
Steve Caple
> Anyway, it came with a can of propellant, and that brings me to my question.
> Are these not commonly used because they run out quickly, or because their
> pressure varies during use, or is there some other reason? I'm not too
> devastated either way, as this kit came with a compressor adaptor, but I was
> expecting to get by with the canned air for a while.
I haven't priced the canned air, but I imagine it's relatively expensive -
while a compressor can run you $100 to $300 depending on quality, features,
and how much "branding" you pay for. At least, as long as the lights are
on, you won't run out of air and have to run and buy another can IF the
store is open when you're painting. I already have a [non-fancy]
compressor, and just want to smooth out the pulsations and keep the
compressor thump farther away from my ears.
How much _DO_ the cans of propellant cost, and how long do they last?
Fred Dabney
my question.
> Are these not commonly used because they run out quickly, or
because their
> pressure varies during use, or is there some other reason? I'm
not too
> devastated either way, as this kit came with a compressor
adaptor, but I was
> expecting to get by with the canned air for a while.
Lots of reasons. While they are quiet and that's a good thing,
they do wind up costing a lot, as a rule they aren't any better
than a spray can as far as control is concerned.
For the "fade"- yes, that's a problem. As you use the gas,
the remaining gas expands and cools down, ultimately
until you reach a point where it has no poop until it can
warm up.
But the standard fix for that is to put the can in a bucket
of warm (not hot!) water to act as a thermal flywheel. It
won't cure the problem but it does help a lot.
I don't know if anyone has tried hooking up a "real" regulator
to one. One problem is that different kinds of paint require
different operating pressures and without a regulator you
aren't going to get that sort of control.
Most of the "regulators" I see for this sort of thing are
nothing more than a valve that lets you restrict the /flow/
of the propellant, and that has the effect of adjusting
the pressure at the airbrush, but only when the airbrush
valve is open. Shut off the air and the pressure jumps
back to full, so you can't really adjust it to some specified
pressure before you start and be confident it will stay
there as you paint.
A real regulator has at least one gage that shows you
what pressure you have it set for, better ones have
two- one is for the input pressure and the other is
for the outlet pressure.
Good compressors are not all that expensive, and
they are handy around the house. If you have a
kid, perhaps it can be used for inflating balls,
air mattresses, and of course the tires on a bike.
And once you have one, you will often find it's
just what you need for other household chores.
So don't avoid buying one because it's too
expensive for just painting models. But be sure
it's a real tank type compressor, not one of those
overpriced "artist's" models.
Real men don't use diaphragm compressors...
Fred D.
Ninebal310
>just what you need for other household chores.
>Real men don't use diaphragm compressors...
>
>Fred D.
Hi All,
Fred is right. Buy a decent compressor. I use mine for all sorts of things.
2 hp. 6.3CFM @45psi.
I pump up my portable air tank to use my airbrush. 7 gal 125psi. Regulated
and noiseless.
Now for a question. I noticed in some pics of air compressors, the
compressors look like the compressors out of an airconditioning or refrigerator
unit. I know these units can pump air, but how much and could one be adapted?
Hummmmm, I amy have to try this. It may be a cheap fix as long as I don't high
off the freon.
Hustlin' Hank
KTØT
Years ago I used a refrigerator compressor as an air compressor. Worked fine
(didn't try air brushing with it though). I recall that there was oil in the
system so you would need some type of separator to keep the oil out of the
air. IIRC, I have seen such devices in stores.
I would expect the output of such a compressor to be very smooth - little,
if any, surging. However you would need to set up a bypass and a regulator
to get the pressure right. A bypass probably wouldn't be necessary if you
were to set up an air tank WITH a pressure switch, but a regulator and
separator are still needed.
If you were to try the approach, make sure you use a real air tank for
safety's sake.
Good luck,
--
73 de KTØT
Bob Schwartz
Modeling Waseca, MN in the 50s
"Ninebal310" <nineb...@aol.committed> wrote in message
news:20020327173230...@mb-cm.aol.com...
: >And once you have one, you will often find it's
Fred Dabney
compressors, the
> compressors look like the compressors out of an airconditioning
or refrigerator
> unit. I know these units can pump air, but how much and could
one be adapted?
> Hummmmm, I amy have to try this. It may be a cheap fix as long
as I don't high
> off the freon.
I knew a guy who, being cheap, used the compressor out
of an old refrigerator, and for a tank he used the tank which
is often used for bottled gas- twenty pound I think it is.
I was never moved to emulate him, but I understand
that such compressors don't hold up well over time as
the gaskets, seals and stuff don't like running dry.
Fred D.
Steve Caple
> I also
> have a larger hole in the front right corner of the stand which holds
> a plastic mustard jar with a small hole drilled through the bottom.
> The mustard jar contains small rags which are replaced from
> time-to-time. This mustard jar comes in handy when you want to "blow
> out" and clean your airbrush between colors or when cleaning.
By the way, I really like that idea!
Steve Caple
> P.S. I didn't really believe the advice until I tried it but an
> in-bottle paint filter is also a MUST if you want to do quality
> airbrush painting.
What are these like?
Mark Z.
> Mark Z. wrote:
> > P.S. I didn't really believe the advice until I tried it but an
> > in-bottle paint filter is also a MUST if you want to do quality
> > airbrush painting.
>
> What are these like?
These things are nothing more than cylindrical, fine mesh screen tubes
that fit over your siphon tube. The cap on these filters, that are
removable, have a small hole for the siphon tube to slide in. The
hole may need to be reamed out with the appropriate size drill bit.
It will depend on the diameter of your siphon tubes. One size fits
all: works both for ½ and one ounce paint bottles. Ideally, you want
the filter close to the underside of the siphon cap. Because of this,
you may need to trim/shorten the length of the siphon tubes on your
siphon caps a wee bit. Any good hobby shop will have them in stock. I
think they cost around $5-$7. Also in Walthers catalog.
A picture of the Badger filters that I use and that Badger calls
"In-Jar Fluid Filters" may be found towards the bottom of the
following page"
http://www.badger-airbrush.com/access2.htm
If you are looking for another little gem, try this one. Definitely
add Butler "Proxabrushes", mfgd. by the John O. Butler Company of
Chicago, to your airbrush maintenance kit. These nifty, little, nylon
dental brushes are just the things any airbrush owner needs for
cleaning out the extremely narrow orifices in an airbrush. They come
in two basis shapes: conical/tapered and cylindrical. The brushes may
be used in the long or short handles that are also available.
Proxabrushes are available at any good drugstore in the dental care
section - DUH!
For a NOT SO GOOD picture of what these things look like:
http://www.jbutler.com/con_groups_page.asp?nCategory_ID=7
http://www.jbutler.com/consumer_products.asp?nCategory_ID=7&nGroup_ID=23
Mark
Mark Z.
> Mark Z. wrote:
> > P.S. I didn't really believe the advice until I tried it but an
> > in-bottle paint filter is also a MUST if you want to do quality
> > airbrush painting.
>
> What are these like?
As regards the paint filters in my previous posting, I should have
added:
You want the filter to fit snugly but not loosely against the siphon
tube. Slowly and gradually diddle around when enlarging the opening
with drill bits until you get the proper fit. It's easy to remove
material, it ain't so easy to add it back. You don't want the filter
to slide off the siphon tube on its own unless "fishing with tweezers"
in paint bottles is your thing.
Mark
Clinton Hyde
Daniel A. Mitchell
only get a few minutes spraying time before you have to recharge it. The
bigger the tank the better. The new acrylic paints make it worse, as you
need 25 -35 psi to spray, and that's about 1/3 of your tank pressure.
Enamels and lacquers need only 15-18 psi, so you get twice as long a
spraying time.
The other options are a compressor (cheapest in the long run), or a high
pressure cylinder of carbon dioxide or dry nitrogen (with an appropriate
regulator) from a welding supply. Quiet and simple, but not as cheap.
Dan Mitchell
==========
Jeff Scarbrough
<danm...@umflint.edu> wrote:
>It'll work, but even at max. pressure in the tank (100-125 psi?). you'll
>only get a few minutes spraying time before you have to recharge it. The
>bigger the tank the better.
I have one that is about 7 gal...I get enough air to spray several
cars...maybe 30 minutes or more? Anyway, it's enough for an evening's
painting, for me anyway.
Jeff Sc.
Booth, Ga.
John
dentist..
It doesnt cost anything and it works!!