Gay Model Railroad Club Forming
skep...@my-dejanews.com
welcome. A monthly newsletter, our own electronic listserv (email reflector),
and get-togethers at train shows are activities planned for the club.
Interested? Please reply via email!
Celebrate American Freedom and Diversity!
Anti-Gay Intolerance and Hate are not "Family Values"
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
bigbl...@frontiernet.net
orientation into THIS wonderful hobby? If you didn't HAVE to be gay to
join...you might of had me interested. I am not gay...but I would've
NEVER asked if you were...I'm having a rough time finding people to
talk to that can relate to my hobby, and now you're going to segregate
us even more....I couldn't imagine announcing "hey we're starting a
new club here, that looks very promising, but NO GAYS ALLOWED!!" Tell
me my friend...wouldn't that be screwed up? Please...let's all just
talk about trains....Now you did it!! You made be sound "grown-up" :)
Remove XX for e-mail replys
Mark Alan Miller
wouldn't be any need for this organization. Many straight model railroaders
are entirely accepting of gay people, but many are not. I am a member of
the Golden Gate Model Railroad Club right in the heart of San Francisco,
indeed, just a few hundred feet from the Castro, and we have members who are
aggressively homophobic who have made the club less than welcoming to gay
members in the past (fortunately, things are better now). I am sure the
situation is the same in many other clubs, and probably worse in many. It
is hardly surprising that gay modellers choose to seek out other gay people
to share their hobby with if they are shunned by many straight modellers.
If model railroading is to have a future, it needs to embrace diversity and
actively promote the hobby to women, racial minorities, and queer folk.
When we get everyone involved the hobby can finally shed the perception that
it's a bunch of aging white boys playing with their toy trains.
Mark Alan Miller
bigbl...@frontiernet.net wrote in message
<368e42f...@news.frontiernet.net>...
CBT2000
heterophobic? I spent my time in the military defending the rights of everyone
in this country, without special considerations. Equality is something that I
have always embraced. Model railroading is fun, and always open to anyone
interested in model trains, and that is all that it is. (depending on your
definition of 'is' :-)
Don Cardiff
Don Cardiff
Kelly and Rachel
How does one determine if the other guy is gay when they are both working on
the railroad?
In article <76m19u$d84$1...@news.bayarea.net>, "Mark Alan Miller"
<maTAKEOUT...@bayarea.net> wrote:
>If sexual orientation were not an issue for many model railroaders, there
>wouldn't be any need for this organization. Many straight model railroaders
>are entirely accepting of gay people, but many are not. I am a member of
Kelly and Rachel kan...@erols.net.com
To reply remove ".net" from our address.
Fred Dabney
CBT2000 wrote in message <19990102170259...@ng22.aol.com>...
I can sort of understand it. I suspect it's more so the members don't have
to put up with brainless name calling from homophobic members who can easily
be diverted from modeling to personal habits. The same motive that has
prompted people to suggest "Christian" model groups, etc.
After all, we talk about a lot of topics on the list that have nothing to do
with trains, and some folk find the language and topics themselves
offensive, would rather not be bothered.
I'd say, if you're not gay, or "Christian", just let the requests pass. As
with so many other topics, we spend far more time bitching about them than
the original took to delete...
Fred Dabney, watching the action from BNSF MP 1112, El Paso sub.
<fda...@nmsu.edu><www.krwgfm.org>
Lindq9113
>How does one determine if the other guy is gay when they are both working on
>the railroad?
Maybe that's why the other club was less than tolerant?
BTW who determines who is tolerant and who isn't?
Dave
in Kansas
TOM
sentence, better watch yourself... I... Ah, mean, if you, like, ya know,
are into sort of thing... :>))
When someone refers to heterosexual folks as straight, what are they
REALLY saying?
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
Joseph P.
No one I know of, most of us do that for ourselves. Works best that
way.
Mark Alan Miller
out in practice. I have heard of many instances of homophobic behavior in
clubs. Of course, modellers with home layouts don't have this problem, but
gay club members often face obstacles to acceptance. An organization giving
gay modellers a way of discussing the difficulties is a good first step to
breaking down barriers and promoting the hobby to gay people who may have
been discouraged in the past.
Mark Alan Miller
CBT2000 wrote in message <19990102170259...@ng22.aol.com>...
>That is all very profound, but why do you need this group? Are you
>heterophobic? I spent my time in the military defending the rights of
everyone
>in this country, without special considerations. Equality is something that
I
>have always embraced. Model railroading is fun, and always open to anyone
>interested in model trains, and that is all that it is. (depending on your
>definition of 'is' :-)
>
>Don Cardiff
>
>Don Cardiff
David Maxwell
Well my guess - - he keeps putting the train in the wrong end of the
tunnel !!
505 Bomb Group,482 Bomb Squad,313 Bomb Wing,Bad Medicine,A Proud Son
David A. Maxwell http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/9425/b29.html
BondoBill1
>orientation into THIS wonderful hobby?
Can We Spell HOMOPHOBIC?
We have a bunch of guys in our Studebaker Chapter who live in an alternative
lifestyle. They past around a Notice that a GAY car Club was starting in the
New York Area. My only question was, what years was a GAY produced, and how
many GAY's are still on the road. If I were gay and joined a model railroad
club, filled with straight guys, I would feel very much out of place, only
because of the retoric that you hear. There is always one jerk in a group who
makes fun of minorities, gays, and those of other nationalities. Announcing a
GAY model railroad club, especially with this forum, allows others to know that
there is a place where trains and alternative lifestyles, are accepted.
>I'm having a rough time finding people to
>talk to that can relate to my hobby, and now you're going to segregate
>us even more
I don't think so, especially segregating it. I believe that this person has had
some discomfort in a 'Hetero" railroad group. or maybe wants to utilize model
railroading as a venue to meet folks like himself, who are interested in
railroading. Its not that unsual for people of similar intersts to band
together in a formal way to enjoy a hobby.
So in closing, does anyone know, where the Gay Railroad Ran and what type of
roster they had?
Back in the 1970's there was a big STINK, some 'railfans' were taking pictures
of one of the engines in Chama as it made up a consist...there were screams of
profanity, cat calls, yelling and screaming.....why, because my 118 lb. wife
was fire'ng the engine, John Coker thought it would be fun. It wasn't to the
masses, but to everyone down below street level in hte yard got a real kick out
of it.
LIGHTEN UP
Bondo Billy, proud owner of the Hawk from Hell and his all girl pit crew!
1956 Golden Hawk
1947 Cmdr Starlight Coupe
1947 Cmdr Convertible- work in progress
http://members.aol.com/bondobill1/index.htm
http://members.aol.com/bondobill1/spam.htm
SAIL LOCO
Now I don't understand this. I guess a number of dealers will be happy to move
out any of those pink trains if they have any left in their inventory.
Dalman33
is why people have distain for you. Do everyone a favor. Keep your conduct to
yourself and just enjoy the hobby.
Dalman33
the railroad?
Bend over to check on the wiring. If you feel a strange sensation behind you or
everyone else in the room goes: "oooooh TARGET". yer in the wrong RR club.
Dalman33
>tunnel !!
>
>
HE HE HE:-) good one
CptMatt
how would anyone know if you are gay, hetero, bi, into small farm animals,
whatever? Most of the gays I have met and known, were just like the next hetero
guy.
Why is it that some gays need to stand up and scream "I'm gay!". Who cares what
your orientation is? Sexual behavior has absolutely nothing to do with model
railroading. The only thing I ask is that you do warn me, if you are picking
the bar to go out for drinks to after a meeting. <G>
Rob Mc.
--------------------------------------
FBritt
whether it is a legitimate posting or not.
If someone wants to form a gay model railroad club, let them. If it offends
you, don't join or respond.
Please don't make the rest of us suffer and wade through the clutter of the
tasteless reponses, though. The blond model rr club thread is just as bad.
Sincerely,
Britt Harrington
GoVerticl
>tasteless reponses, though.
Wade thru the responses? Noone makes anyone read a thing on here...it is pretty
easy to tell the subject by the header (especially this one).
If you don't want to wade thru the responses on this, don't read it.
-John
"Life's a bowl of bagel dogs, but there are unpleasantries
Cold toilet seats, dentist chairs, and trips to DMV" - L. Claypool, Primus
Lindq9113
>makes fun of minorities, gays, and those of other nationalities.
And there are none of these "jerks" in the homosexual world? There is no racism
among homosexuals, no hatered of any kind?
I have to disagree. Homophobic is a word used by jerks to brand everyone who
doesn't agree with them. They claim moral high ground and can never ever judge
the world as anything less than evil for once they do the party is over the
high ground is gone and the special interest disbands.
I have been made fun of for being overweight, for being Catholic, and for
wearing glasses. Yeah I could run away and start my own group or I can remember
while God made us all equal in his eyes he gave some us more tolerance,some of
us more candor. There's always one but usually it's just the one. Why give him
more power by painting the group with his stripe?
There are lots of gay people in lots of groups we don't even know about. I
don't care to know that's their business.Maybe your best bet is to keep your
private business private. Cmon back guys we all play with trains that puts us
in a small enough group as it is!
Dave
in Kansas
BTW Bill did your wife enjoy firing that engine? And as a side note I heard
howels from the crowd when one of our hosts failed to close a vestebule door on
an 844 trip. Some of those guys are picky...picky...picky..
Lindq9113
>
>tasteless reponses,
Don't post this stuff and then there's no clutter. The door swings both ways.
Kelly and Rachel
just to feel alright about themself!
>I have to disagree. Homophobic is a word used by jerks to brand everyone who
>doesn't agree with them. They claim moral high ground and can never ever judge
>the world as anything less than evil for once they do the party is over the
>high ground is gone and the special interest disbands.
Kelly and Rachel kan...@erols.net.com
R.D. Elliott
Has it ever occured to you that YOUR conduct is perhaps reprehensible to
less narrow-minded and intolerant modellers? Do everyone a favour. Keep
your prejudices to yourself and just enjoy the hobby.
In article <19990103001416...@ng-fu1.aol.com>, dalm...@aol.com
(Dalman33) wrote:
- Did you ever think that your conduct is reprehensible to others? Perhaps THAT
- is why people have distain for you. Do everyone a favor. Keep your conduct to
- yourself and just enjoy the hobby.
R.D. Elliott
crazylegs
crazylegs
ways.
No pun intended (?).
Andrew Eakin
opinion that suddenly they are "narrow minded and intolerant"?
Sounds kinda narrow minded to me....
Andrew
R.D. Elliott wrote in message ...
roger traviss
: Please don't make the rest of us suffer and wade through the clutter of the
: tasteless reponses, though. The blond model rr club thread is just as bad.
: Sincerely,
: Britt Harrington
That's OK Britt, your application probably wouldn't be accepted anyway. A
sense of humour is also required.
Cheers,
Roger Traviss
President.
Blonde, Blue Eyed Babe, Model Railroad Club.
BondoBill1
She really loved it, go figure, I try and keep clear of physical work, and she
loves it. Her parents would kill her to find out her newest desire is to learn
Formula One driving. "Give us Strength"
TOM
DUH... How do I add a kill filter???
Get a clue guys, if it offends you filter it...
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
FBritt wrote:
>
> Why do we have to go through this everytime someone mentions anything "Gay",
> whether it is a legitimate posting or not.
>
> If someone wants to form a gay model railroad club, let them. If it offends
> you, don't join or respond.
Alan Gilchrist
dejanews.com was saying something about Gay Model Railroad Club Forming...
>A new club is forming for gay model railroad enthusiasts. All gauges are
>welcome. A monthly newsletter, our own electronic listserv (email reflector),
Must be April 1st, sexual orientation shouldn't be a factor in a model
hobby.
Alan (remove ".NSPM" before replying via EMail)
IRC: Channel: #ModelRails Server: IRC.Zuh.Net
* * * <- Tribbles ‘ ‘ ‘ <- after the wash cycle
RAFman
Spam Spam Spam, Troll Troll, Troll !!!
Alan Gilchrist <cpr_fa...@netcom.ca> wrote in article
<534.672T18...@netcom.ca>...
R.D. Elliott
Does the original post sound open-minded and tolerant to you?
"Reprehensible" and "disdain" sure aren't the sort of words you'd expect
from someone who didn't have some sort of issues about gays...
In article <pTNj2.1272$Vk.20...@news1.atl>, "Andrew Eakin"
<ade...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
- Why is it, just out of curiosity, that every time someone has a differing
- opinion that suddenly they are "narrow minded and intolerant"?
-
-
- Sounds kinda narrow minded to me....
-
-
- Andrew
-
- R.D. Elliott wrote in message ...
- >
- > Has it ever occured to you that YOUR conduct is perhaps reprehensible to
- >less narrow-minded and intolerant modellers? Do everyone a favour. Keep
- >your prejudices to yourself and just enjoy the hobby.
- >
- >In article <19990103001416...@ng-fu1.aol.com>, dalm...@aol.com
- >(Dalman33) wrote:
- >
- >- Did you ever think that your conduct is reprehensible to others? Perhaps
- THAT
- >- is why people have distain for you. Do everyone a favor. Keep your
- conduct to
- >- yourself and just enjoy the hobby.
[snip]
R.D. Elliott
Lindq9113
Dave :)
John E Richards
says...
>
>A new club is forming for gay model railroad enthusiasts. All gauges
are
>welcome. A monthly newsletter, our own electronic listserv (email
reflector),
>
>Interested? Please reply via email!
>
>Celebrate American Freedom and Diversity!
>Anti-Gay Intolerance and Hate are not "Family Values"
>
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network
==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your
Own
Welcome to the N.G., Enjoy.
--
Builder in Brass of Australian Model Steam Locomotives
CptMatt
Rob Mc.
---------------------------------------
Fred Maxwell - No Spam E-mail Accepted
and judgemental crap like you are spewing that makes it so necessary. No gay model
railroader wants to spend club meetings in fear that they might slip-up and refer to their
same-sex significant other in the presence of some homophobe like you.
Do everyone a favor. Find a new hobby. You are an embarassment to the model railroading
community.
Regards,
Fred Maxwell
Dalman33 wrote:
>
> Did you ever think that your conduct is reprehensible to others? Perhaps THAT
> is why people have distain for you. Do everyone a favor. Keep your conduct to
Fred Maxwell - No Spam E-mail Accepted
Lindq9113 wrote:
> There are lots of gay people in lots of groups we don't even know about. I
> don't care to know that's their business.Maybe your best bet is to keep your
> private business private.
Why is it "private business"? Why can you mention your wife/girlfriend to the guys in
your model railroad club? Isn't your heterosexuality your private business? It seems
like you have two standards: If they are straight, their sexual orientation is nothing to
hide, but if they are gay, leave that info in the closet. Maybe they don't want to hide
their significant other/sexual orientation like it's some dark secret to be ashamed of.
Regards,
Fred Maxwell
Fred Maxwell - No Spam E-mail Accepted
homosexuality. It's a word used by people that do not feel that open bigotry, prejudice,
and hostility against gay people is acceptable.
I've read this thread, including all of the anti-gay jokes and, frankly, I don't think
that it has done much to make gay model railroaders feel welcome into the community. No
wonder that some of them are forming their own club.
If someone said they wanted to start a black model railroader's club, would it have been
okay to digress into a series of racist jokes?
Regards,
Fred Maxwell
TOM
these days and the rates aren't going up.
<><><> TOM <><><>
-----------------
Alan Gilchrist wrote:
>
> In Message <76lccn$p4j$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, skeptic49 at skeptic49@my-
> dejanews.com was saying something about Gay Model Railroad Club Forming...
>
> >A new club is forming for gay model railroad enthusiasts. All gauges are
> >welcome. A monthly newsletter, our own electronic listserv (email reflector),
>
bcoc...@earthlink.net
"Andrew Eakin" <ade...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Why is it, just out of curiosity, that every time someone has a differing
>
>
>
> It is just a fact that some opinions come from a narrow perspective and depict
an intolerance of others.
Lindq9113
>by
>homosexuality.
And of course you judge them to be scared, and to hell with any religious
beliefs they may have because in your eyes their religious beliefs are wrong or
don't matter.
And this isn't biggotry?
Mark A. Picarro
correctness anywhere..its a damn shame crap like this is around.
--
mpic...@bellsouth.net
Lindq9113 wrote in message <19990104060618...@ng30.aol.com>...
Greg Williams
remember
>while God made us all equal in his eyes he gave some us more tolerance,some
of
>us more candor. There's always one but usually it's just the one.
A few years ago I was at a convention and was walking with 2 friends and I
looked at us. We were (still are) 250 pounds + I mentioned that we should
start a Fat Boys Model Railroad club. No one was offended.
BondoBill1
>It's prejudice
>and judgemental crap like you are spewing that makes it so necessary. No gay
>model
>railroader wants to spend club meetings in fear that they might slip-up and
>refer to their
>same-sex significant other in
Because of my background in "show business" many years ago, and the truly
diversified makeup of the Manhattan Chapter of our Studebker club, my meeting
and working with those of a different sexual orientation has been a given. What
I have witnessed over the years is remarks that are cuting, biting and down
right distasteful. I also have met Gay folks who make light of their sexuality,
to put you at ease in talking with them and sharing experiences such as car
meets, or parties or at a restaurant. To understand why the post about a Gay
modelrailroad group is fprming, I woould imagine is due to the remarks that
have been made here, which makes it difficult to feel welcome. I do not defenf
their lifestyle, nor do I wish that htey wear a button stating "I am gay". some
hobby/interests are also used as social ways to meet new friends, and if a gay
person thinks model railroading is a vehicle, cut him/them some slack and give
them all the help that they need.
I have found that many gay people are more creative and able to express
themselve in artistic venues than those who are presumed straight. The remarks
that I read on htis board after the initial posting was bigoted and distasteful
as one would could ever imagine. You will not get AIDS handling a locomotive a
gay person touched, you will not get hit upon by a gay person as most gays find
straight guys unattractive. Why not sit back entertain hte Gay community and
utilize their strengths. An please stop with the double meaning jokes. If you
could not tolorate atrocities in hte past why set up mental atrocities in a
hobby that should cross genders, ans whos goal is to make everyone welcome.
JIMBEAR
too often gets drowned out by the the howls of
ignorance, intolerance, and immaturity. Jim
BondoBill1 wrote in message
<19990104090239...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
Fred Dabney
>And of course you judge them to be scared, and to hell with any religious
>beliefs they may have because in your eyes their religious beliefs are
wrong or
>don't matter.
There is growning evidence that the matter is one of biochemistry, neurology
and not some "evil" impulse. In fact, most of the psychiactric
organisations are now advising against trying to "treat" it, and others are
leaning in that direction.
To despise someone for such a reason is as bad as despising someone who has
diabetes.
Religions tend to lag centuries behind reality when it comes to matters like
this. Dogma is useful because it relieves the dogmatic of thinking, and
thinking might upset the hierarchy.
Fred Dabney, watching the action from BNSF MP 1112, El Paso sub.
<fda...@nmsu.edu><www.krwgfm.org>
Kelly and Rachel
railroader's club, they would be torn apart as well.
>
>If someone said they wanted to start a black model railroader's club, would it
> have been
>okay to digress into a series of racist jokes?
>
>Regards,
> Fred Maxwell
>
Kelly and Rachel kan...@erols.net.com
Lindq9113
>start a Fat Boys Model Railroad club. No one was offended
Offended? No I'll sign for a charter membership.
Dave
in Kansas
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
lind...@aol.com (Lindq9113) wrote:
> and to hell with any religious
> beliefs they may have because in your eyes their religious beliefs are wrong
> or don't matter.
You are free to use your religious beliefs as a guide for living your own
life. They do not give you a license to pass public judgement on others and
make tasteless jokes about them. Religious freedom does not grant you a
license to verbally or physically abuse those who do not share your belief.
Nor does it give you the right to go unchallenged when you make offensive
jokes about someone else's lifestyle.
Regards,
Fred Maxwell
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
"Greg Williams" <will...@juniperlumber.com> wrote:
> A few years ago I was at a convention and was walking with 2 friends and I
> looked at us. We were (still are) 250 pounds + I mentioned that we should
> start a Fat Boys Model Railroad club. No one was offended.
So, you feel that making fun of yourself amoung your friends is the same as
making fun of someone else? Some black people refer to one another as
"nigger." If you are not black, I would strongly recommend that you not
wander into a predominantly black neighborhood and call someone that.
Bigbad4247
comments.
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
bigba...@aol.com (Bigbad4247) wrote:
> Lets stick to the to the topic of THIS newsgroup and ignore the off beat
> comments.
I agree. When a person posts an announcement of a gay model railroad club,
he should not be attacked and made fun of. His post was on-topic and the
insulting, off-topic replies were uncalled for. When such inappropriate
responses are posted, they should not go unchallenged lest our silence be
judged as quiet approval.
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
"Alan Gilchrist" <cpr_fa...@netcom.ca> wrote:
> In Message <76lccn$p4j$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, skeptic49 at skeptic49@my-
> dejanews.com was saying something about Gay Model Railroad Club Forming...
>
> >A new club is forming for gay model railroad enthusiasts. All gauges are
> >welcome. A monthly newsletter, our own electronic listserv (email reflector),
>
> Must be April 1st, sexual orientation shouldn't be a factor in a model
> hobby.
It should not, but the insulting comments and tasteless jokes made in response
to the posting make it all too clear that there are people within the model
railroading community for whom it is a factor.
LarEyman
Larry at Papas Trains
R.D. Elliott
and Rachel) wrote:
- Ahhhhh but if someone posted that they wanted to start a white model
- railroader's club, they would be torn apart as well.
-
[snip]
Because there'd be no other rational explanation for it other than that
they were racist SOB's. As a het, slightly overweight white guy, I can
wander into any model railroad club in North America and blend right in
without catching flak for being heterosexual, or slightly overweight, or
weight. Wanting to start a white-only club would just indicate that I have
problems with people who aren't...
However, if I weren't white or straight, I think that there's been
plenty of evidence posted in this thread supporting the contention that I
might just catch a little bit of flak because of what I am... so if I want
to start a club where I can model without being abused, what's wrong with
that?
R.D. Elliott
Rusty Keeney
George A.Vega
Fred,
Thank you for being a voice of reason.
George.
--
"Truth is in the eye of the beholder"
Guinan:STTNG
UCE will be reported.
To reply remove the extra "x" in ix,compuserve,or email.
George A.Vega
voya...@ixx.netcom.com
voya...@compuservex.com
Rusty Keeney
for fellow modelers with common off-topic interests. Maybe that's
because for some reason he's not comfortable with the typical railroad
club/group, etc., and possibly because he's been made to feel
unwelcome.
Some of my best friends and best customers are gay. I don't care what
their preferences are. Our friendships or professional relationships
are not based on sexual preference (how does that relate to model
railroading anyhow?) I was in the Navy and Naval Reserve for over
thirty years, and I was XO to a gay CO. Didn't care about that then,
because if it came to a shoot-'em-up, he could have handled it. Had a
number of gay sailors...male and female...didn't turn 'em in...because
they could handle it.
I don't care about gay model railroaders' preferences, as long as
they're not rivet counters.
Rusty Keeney
<rons...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>;-))
>
>>I have been made fun of for being overweight, for being Catholic, and for
>>wearing glasses. Yeah I could run away and start my own group or I can
>remember
>
But are you a Narrow Gauger?
Lindq9113
>
>Larry at Papas Trains
>
DITTO!
Dave
in Kansas
darn lizards....the frogs would never have done this..:)
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
lind...@aol.com (Lindq9113) wrote:
> >Give it up Louie and lets get back to model railroading.... :-)
> >
> >Larry at Papas Trains
> >
>
> DITTO!
You are one of the ones who attacked the guy's lifestyle in
rec.models.railroad and now you're telling me to get back on topic. What a
hypocrite...
jonny barnstorf
model railroading. Now he leaves a club because they make him feel
uncomfortable. Both sides loose, gay fella feels bad because he was harassed
(and lost out on club community), club looses out because they don't get to
share his ideas or skills in the hobby.
well, that's people I guess.
Jonny B
ps. could apply to male or female.
Bruce Wilson
Rusty Keeney <cros...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<3692fd1a...@news.mindspring.com>...
I'm an overweight Baptist with bad vision, would I be allowed to join your
group?
Fred Dabney
>I don't care about gay model railroaders' preferences, as long as
>they're not rivet counters.
Ahhh, now the dirty little secret comes out...
Fred D.
Mark Alan Miller
defending what shouldn't have needed defending. It's nice that a few
straight people were willing to speak up and say that they find homophobic
postings offensive. You guys are the best. I'm sure you're all wonderful
modellers, too, with straight teeth and dogs that love you.
Mark Alan Miller
Dalman33
because nobody knows.
Second of all, if you are a good modeler, it doesn't matter whether you are
homosexual or not.
Third, what is it with homosexuals that they have to let the whole friggin
world know they are homosexual? Can't they just be people or does their entire
life revolve around the fact that they have a sexual thing for their own kind?
Is their indentity wrapped up in the fact that they have a different sexual
bent than others?
Just be modelers damn it. Not "gay", not "straight", just model railroaders.
And leave it at that.
jdg...@my-dejanews.com
Seems to me that most homosexuals want eveyone to agree and say their sexual
preference is O.K. Gay, hell, they seem to be miserable!
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
railroad club and an announcement of it is appropriate in this newsgroup.
Anti-gay comments are not appropriate to this newsgroup. If you want to join
his club, e-mail him and if you don't, move on to the next posting.
He should feel free to mention his significant other without fear of being
ostracized -- just as you can in your circle of friends.
Regards,
Fred Maxwell
msimpy
Mike S.
<fred_m...@my-dejanews.com> wrote in message
news:772oal$254$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com...
Mark Alan Miller
Dalman33 wrote in message <19990106203958...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
>First of all......if you're a homosexual and keep it to yourself, nobody
cares
>because nobody knows.
>
>Second of all, if you are a good modeler, it doesn't matter whether you are
>homosexual or not.
>
>Third, what is it with homosexuals that they have to let the whole friggin
>world know they are homosexual? Can't they just be people or does their
entire
>life revolve around the fact that they have a sexual thing for their own
kind?
>Is their indentity wrapped up in the fact that they have a different sexual
>bent than others?
>
>Just be modelers damn it. Not "gay", not "straight", just model
railroaders.
>And leave it at that.
1. There are gay people all around you that you don't know are gay, most of
whom aren't saying anything about it because of intolerant assholes who are
offended by innocuous comments. "Keeping it to yourself" means censoring
yourself, something straight people don't have to do. Am I supposed to hide
the existence of my partner because mentioning him might be offensive to
others? Do you hide the existence of your wife or girlfriend or whatever?
When I say I am doing something with Doug, should I instead pretend I'm
doing it alone, that he doesn't exist?
2. Of course being gay has nothing to do with being a good modeller. And
vice versa. If all we ever talked about was our trains, being a gay model
railroader wouldn't be an issue. But this is a social hobby, with social
organizations and interactions. Being gay can be very much an issue.
3. There are in-your-face gay people. They are very small percentage of
the queer population. I am not one of them, but they have the right to be
obvious about their queerness in the same way that straight men who comment
on the physical attractions of every woman who walks by have the right to be
obvious about their straightness. Most gay people are far from obvious
about being gay. Indeed, most are closeted to some degree. Even in San
Francisco it is not entirely safe to be obviously gay (though as safe as
anywhere).
4. Sexual orientation IS a fundamental part of identity, for both gay and
straight people. Straight people don't have to think about it so much as
they are in the majority, but when you look at the elaborate institutions in
all cultures dedicated to sexual partnering (including marriage), it's
pretty obvious that sexual orientation is a big part of a person's identity.
Only gay people are accused of flaunting their sexual identities when they
demonstrate their affections and proclaim their partnerships publicly.
Straight people get wedding presents.
Mark Alan Miller
Dennis
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
jdg...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Seems to me that most homosexuals want eveyone to agree and say their sexual
> preference is O.K. Gay, hell, they seem to be miserable!
I think that they would be pretty happy if gay people weren't beaten to death,
ostracized, ridiculed, verbally abused, and fired from their jobs. Many would
like to be able to enjoy the legal protections of marriage that you take for
granted. This isn't some cutesy topic to make jokes about. Gay people are
brutalized and their rights stripped away because of their sexuality.
Hell, they can't even start a model railroad club without some bunch of
right-wing Bible-thumpers using it as an excuse to berate and ridicule them.
Matthew Asnip
>> I mentioned that we should
>>start a Fat Boys Model Railroad club. No one was offended
Me too....
By the way, one of the main reasons for a gay club might possible be a
new slant on couplers. But we would need a bi- group for a new take on
switches.
bu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
> Hell, they can't even start a model railroad club without some bunch of
> right-wing Bible-thumpers using it as an excuse to berate and ridicule them.
>
> Regards,
> Fred Maxwell
>
should come out of the closest as a Christian. Right, say you are a Chrisitan,
and you are subject to some of the same ridicule.
SO Fred, be careful what you write (i.e. "Bible-thumpers"). To me (and
probably other Christians), your term "bible-thumpers" is offensive and
demonstrates as much bias about Christians as you are claiming some individuals
in r.mr. are demostrating about individuals who are homosexual.
Jim Budde
KSF&P RR
trainboy
Steve Bucy
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<773aqa$jfh$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> In article <772nfu$1ef$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> jdg...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > Seems to me that most homosexuals want eveyone to agree and say their
sexual
> > preference is O.K. Gay, hell, they seem to be miserable!
>
> I think that they would be pretty happy if gay people weren't beaten to
death,
> ostracized, ridiculed, verbally abused, and fired from their jobs. Many
would
> like to be able to enjoy the legal protections of marriage that you take
for
> granted. This isn't some cutesy topic to make jokes about. Gay people
are
> brutalized and their rights stripped away because of their sexuality.
>
> Hell, they can't even start a model railroad club without some bunch of
> right-wing Bible-thumpers using it as an excuse to berate and ridicule
them.
I've been staying out of this, but this is to much. What makes you so sure
it's "Bible-thumpers" berating them? You go around talking about gays being
persecuted and verbally abused and then you take a shot at "right-wing
Bible-thumpers". Isn't this a bit hypocritical? It's this type of attitude
on both sides that creates the problem.
I'm Christian and I take all kinds of flak for it. I'm personally tired of
being called a homophobe, Bible thumper, racist, etc. simply because I have
religious beliefs. I believe homosexuality is wrong. I don't believe it
occurs naturally and is the way things where ment be. Does that mean I fear
or hate homosexuals? NO. It simply means I disagree with what they are
doing. I also think adultery is wrong. Does that mean I'm afraid of people
who commit adultery. Of course not. I don't think lying is ok but that
doesn't mean I'm afraid of or hate people who lie. Shoot, all of my friends
and family have probably lied at one time or another.
I've had several homosexual friends. We didn't agree on their lifestyle but
that didn't prevent us from being friends. Someone that really loves and
follows Christ won't do the things you seem to accuse "Bible-thumpers" of
doing. So kindly stop your stereo-typing.
As for the Gay railroad club: He has the right to do whatever he wants. I'm
sorry he felt the need to it because some clods couldn't deal with his
lifestyle. However it is an "in your face" way to do things. It's simply
making another division. If he didn't feel comfortable with any railroad
club he should have simply started another club and acted however he liked
with his partner. If someone complained they could leave or he could just
throw their intolerant *ss out.
Steve Bucy
Dennis
now continue with the name calling......"right-wing
Bible-thumpers......berate..ridicule them." Please re-read your 10:45 hr tread and
you might remember what you had said! Be ashamed! Come on Fred..get back on track
here with this Newgroup!! }:o)
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <772nfu$1ef$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> jdg...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > Seems to me that most homosexuals want eveyone to agree and say their sexual
> > preference is O.K. Gay, hell, they seem to be miserable!
>
> I think that they would be pretty happy if gay people weren't beaten to death,
> ostracized, ridiculed, verbally abused, and fired from their jobs. Many would
> like to be able to enjoy the legal protections of marriage that you take for
> granted. This isn't some cutesy topic to make jokes about. Gay people are
> brutalized and their rights stripped away because of their sexuality.
>
> Hell, they can't even start a model railroad club without some bunch of
> right-wing Bible-thumpers using it as an excuse to berate and ridicule them.
>
Lindq9113
>rec.models.railroad and now you're telling me to get back on topic.
No one attacked his lifestyle. They did question the appropriateness of the
post.
Give it up Fred....geese....
Kelly and Rachel
this group with a child and don't expect to see this type of message.
In article <772oal$254$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
wrote:
>I will make this brief: He's perfectly within his rights to form a gay model
>railroad club and an announcement of it is appropriate in this newsgroup.
Kelly and Rachel kan...@erols.net.com
To reply remove ".net" from our address.
Rusty Keeney
>
>> Hell, they can't even start a model railroad club without some bunch of
>> right-wing Bible-thumpers using it as an excuse to berate and ridicule them.
>SO Fred, be careful what you write (i.e. "Bible-thumpers"). To me (and
>probably other Christians), your term "bible-thumpers" is offensive and
>demonstrates as much bias about Christians as you are claiming some individuals
>in r.mr. are demostrating about individuals who are homosexual.
>
>Jim Budde
>KSF&P RR
>
I inferred from Fred's post he makes a distinction between righteous
and sanctimonious...
bcoc...@earthlink.net
"Steve Bucy" <tb...@lainet.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm Christian and I take all kinds of flak for it. I'm personally tired of
> being called a homophobe, Bible thumper, racist, etc. simply because I have
> religious beliefs. I believe homosexuality is wrong.
Not too long ago Christians in the South and other areas beleived slavery was
OK and natural because to them, the black race was inferior to the white race
and therefore needed to be dominated. They even used the bible to justify
it.
I belive that using religion as a means to justify bigotry and hatred and
intollerance is wrong.
tr...@webspan.net
> No one attacked his lifestyle. They did question the appropriateness of the post.
Yeah, but some attacked my lifestyle by implying I need saving, just
because I said I would rather have modelers happy, safe and out rather
than self-loathing, persecuted, angry, and in basements with kids. Of
course they chose to do it in a private mail, for some reason.
Anyway, since it was a public post to begin with I'm outing them. My
response follows:
Dalm...@aol.com wrote:
>
> No. I repeat, no. Homosexuality is an abomination before God and the ruin of
> our nation. Get off your high horse and repent now before it is too late.
<<<No. I repeat, no.>>> So you like the idea of perverts using toy
trains to lure children into their basments?
<<<Homosexuality is an abomination before God>>> Perhaps your concept of
God, in which I have little or no interest. But thanks for sharing.
<<<and the ruin of our nation.>>> Gee, and I thought it was
narrow-minded zealotry.
<<<Get off your high horse>>> I don't have a horse. I have cats.
<<<and repent now before it is too late.>>> I'd gladly take the flames
rather than spend eternity with you.
No doubt I'm going to be tied up with spam for the next few weeks. C'est
le guerre.
Joe Reckner
> Many would like to be able to enjoy the legal protections of marriage that you take for
>granted.
whole world doesn't have to bow to whatever a small percentage of its
population deems to be OK. Violence against anyone, regardless of
race, creed, or sexual orientation is wrong, but the ignorant actions
of some doesn't mean everyone has to accept their actions as good or
normal.
>Hell, they can't even start a model railroad club without some bunch of
>right-wing Bible-thumpers using it as an excuse to berate and ridicule them.
Oh, so this means its OK for others to spout their beliefs, but
'right-wing Bible-thumpers', as you call them are not allowed to have
their say since it doesn't fall in line gays. So its intolerance only
if you are the minority. I get it now.
>Regards,
> Fred Maxwell
CBT2000
Proestants, Mormons, Jews, Hetero's, Gays, Men, Women, Children, Muslims,
Arabs, Budhas, Executives, Farmers, Americans, Japanese, Arabians, Australians,
Canadians, MovieStars,Indians,Congressmen,Fishermen,Servicemen, Salesmen,
Artists, Richmen, Poormen, Handicapped, Families, Singles, and not necessarily
in that order. Is this a great hobby, or what?
Don Cardiff
JIMBEAR
wasted my time reading Swift, Twain and Shaw.
I could have been here; reading all the adolescent
humor that has been appearing concerning this
thread. What next? Pee-pee jokes?
Matthew Asnip wrote in message <36952405...@news.mindspring.com>...
Michael Usoff
Bruce Wilson wrote:
Sure!! As long as your girth wasn't bigger than your reach! :>)) Mike
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
"Steve Bucy" <tb...@lainet.com> wrote:
> I've been staying out of this, but this is to much. What makes you so sure
> it's "Bible-thumpers" berating them?
Because of e-mail that I have received from several of the people on here
quoting scripture and citing their Christian religious beliefs as
justification for their anti-gay remarks.
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
Dennis <dj...@n-link.com> wrote:
> Fred.....your thread at 10:45 today was pretty clear and you made your point
> ...why
> now continue with the name calling......"right-wing
> Bible-thumpers......berate..ridicule them."
Because despite reasoned, intelligent posts requesting that people not use
this newsgroup as a forum for anti-gay remarks, I continue to see public
postings and private e-mails, many of which refer to "Jesus Christ", "the
Bible", "scripture" and so forth. I have tried to be patient, but this is
just getting ridiculous. I should be able to read postings in
rec.models.railroad without seeing a bunch of anti-gay postings from the
religious right.
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
bu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu wrote:
> I haven't posted any statements in this thread, but now find that I
> should come out of the closest as a Christian. Right, say you are a
> Chrisitan, and you are subject to some of the same ridicule.
When you use your religious beliefs as an excuse to ridicule, berate, and
verbally abuse someone, you are not just a "Christian". If you want to use
your Christianity as a guide for living your own life, that's fine. If you
use it as justification for bigotry, I think "Bible-thumper" is, if anything,
a kind term.
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
jrec...@cftnet.com (Joe Reckner) wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:00:42 GMT, fred_m...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > Many would like to be able to enjoy the legal protections of marriage that
you take for
> >granted.
> Then they are welcome to join the vast majority of society, but the
> whole world doesn't have to bow to whatever a small percentage of its
> population deems to be OK.
If you deny them the same rights you take for granted, don't be surprised that
they want to have their own club where they aren't second class citizens.
> Violence against anyone, regardless of
> race, creed, or sexual orientation is wrong, but the ignorant actions
> of some doesn't mean everyone has to accept their actions as good or
> normal.
The point is that you don't have any reason or right to pass jugement on
their sexuality. If you want to view them as sick, deviant, abnormal, or
bad, do so in private. I don't get on the rec.models.railroad forum to read
anti-gay postings. If you feel that you have to make and read them, there
are newsgroups that tolerate and even encourage such posts.
> Oh, so this means its OK for others to spout their beliefs
A message stating that a model railroad club is forming is not spouting
beliefs.
> , but
> 'right-wing Bible-thumpers', as you call them are not allowed to have
> their say
You may "have [your] say" in this newsgroup -- as long as it's about model
railroading. This is not the place for anti-gay bigotry even if such bigotry
is encouraged by religious beliefs.
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
kan...@erols.net.com (Kelly and Rachel) wrote:
> I havn't seen anybody bring up the fact that people may be reading
> this group with a child and don't expect to see this type of message.
I'd be a lot more worried that a child would learn bigotry and intolerance
from this thread. No normal child would be upset or emotionally scarred by a
gay model railroad group forming. Had the announcement included graphic
descriptions of gay sex, you would have a point and it would have been
inappropriate, but that's not what was in the message.
Regards,
Fred Maxwell
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
Dennis <dj...@n-link.com> wrote:
> Huh?..... Your Point?
His posting was eloquently written, intelligent, and logical. If you could
not understand his points, you should talk to a professional to determine if
you suffer from dyslexia or some other disorder that interferes with your
reading.
tank...@usit.net
>Oh, so this means its OK for others to spout their beliefs, but
>'right-wing Bible-thumpers', as you call them are not allowed to have
>their say since it doesn't fall in line gays. So its intolerance only
>if you are the minority. I get it now.
Ok now boys. I have a solution to this thread. Lets get MDC,
Roundhouse, or someone similar to do a special billboard reefer car.
It would be in constant travel on the new club, and several others, it
would state on one side "REPENT NOW" and on the other would have a
rainbow. That should cover it all. :)
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
lind...@aol.com (Lindq9113) wrote:
> >You are one of the ones who attacked the guy's lifestyle in
> >rec.models.railroad and now you're telling me to get back on topic.
>
Many people did (and made jokes about it) but, rereading your posts, I have to
admit that you were not among them. Please accept my apology for my error.
> They did question the appropriateness of the post.
How can anyone questiong the appropriateness of a post in rec.models.railroad
announcing a model railroad club? Would you have questioned the
appropriateness of an announcement for a Christian model railroaders' club?
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
tr...@webspan.net wrote:
> Anyway, since it was a public post to begin with I'm outing them. My
> response follows:
>
> Dalm...@aol.com wrote:
The same person wrote to me with anti-gay e-mail in which he cited the Bible
and scripture as an excuse for intolerance.
William Kaiser
> I havn't seen anybody bring up the fact that people may be reading
> this group with a child and don't expect to see this type of message.
What a wonderful opportunity for you and your child!
You can teach your child that there is great diversity among people. You
can explain that there are many different races. Some people are
straight, some aren't. Some believe in god, some don't. Etc., etc.
You can also explain that no person should be deprived of their rights
simply because some others do not approve of them or of their activities.
Keep up the good work.
--
Bill Kaiser
wka...@mhc.mtholyoke.edu
There are three ways to do a job: good, cheap, and quick.
You can have any two.
A good, cheap job won't be quick.
A good, quick job won't be cheap.
A cheap, quick job won't be good.
jdg...@my-dejanews.com
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <369593...@webspan.net>,
> tr...@webspan.net wrote:
>
> > Anyway, since it was a public post to begin with I'm outing them. My
> > response follows:
> >
> > Dalm...@aol.com wrote:
>
> The same person wrote to me with anti-gay e-mail in which he cited the Bible
> and scripture as an excuse for intolerance.
>
> Regards,
> Fred Maxwell
>
Maybe you should start a model railroad club for agnostics!
Joe
Dennis
understood what YOU are trying to expell. Why so hostile? Was it that you
brought this upon yourself in defense? Dyslexia you say...LMAO...get real
Freddie!! May I suggest you go back and reread the post where I posted my
questions...and I would hope that you would then understand why I posted...if
not then, may I assist you in making an appointment with a professional to
determine just what your problem is!! Give it up Fred.....think your fighting a
conflict of interest not suitable for your intermediate educational needs or
requirements.
O......BTW..Have a Nice Day.
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <36950733...@n-link.com>,
> Dennis <dj...@n-link.com> wrote:
> > Huh?..... Your Point?
>
> His posting was eloquently written, intelligent, and logical. If you could
> not understand his points, you should talk to a professional to determine if
> you suffer from dyslexia or some other disorder that interferes with your
> reading.
>
> Regards,
> Fred Maxwell
>
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
Maybe once the folks on here finish making jokes about gay model railroad
enthusiasts, they can start making fun of model railroaders who are black or
Jewish. Maybe they can even start a rec.models.railroad.aryan newsgroup.
It's just good to see that such impressive efforts are being made to make
everyone feel welcome on here...
Regards,
Fred Maxwell
In article <774d36$l...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Steve Bucy
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<7752g7$18l$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> In article <01be3a95$7c547340$b658dacf@Tom>,
> "Steve Bucy" <tb...@lainet.com> wrote:
>
> > I've been staying out of this, but this is to much. What makes you so
sure
> > it's "Bible-thumpers" berating them?
>
> Because of e-mail that I have received from several of the people on here
> quoting scripture and citing their Christian religious beliefs as
> justification for their anti-gay remarks.
That being the case I will simply say that they don't speak for the entire
Christian community. There are extremists on both sides. I won't even go
into the stuff Queer Nation and Act Up promote... They don't speak for the
entire gay movement, and neither do those that support hateful anti-gay
remarks speak for all Christians.
Steve Bucy