correct spelling Ninjutsu or Ninjitsu?
David Lyle
>
>which one is right?
Tough question.... "right" for what?
If you're talking about Ninjutsu the martial art, then the "jutsu"
ending is appropriate. This would be the form of the word used ala
Ninja, Ninpo, etc. Ninjutsu is what a ninja does. Ninpo is what a
ninja "is".
"jitsu" means roughly "the truth". So, Ninjitsu means literally
"Endurdance truth". Formally, "jitsu o ieba": "to tell the truth."
DJR
>If you're talking about Ninjutsu the martial art, then the "jutsu"
>ending is appropriate. This would be the form of the word used ala
>Ninja, Ninpo, etc. Ninjutsu is what a ninja does. Ninpo is what a
>ninja "is".
>"jitsu" means roughly "the truth". So, Ninjitsu means literally
>"Endurdance truth". Formally, "jitsu o ieba": "to tell the truth."
in japanese the character for "technique" is pronounced jutsu, or sometimes,
"jitsu". Jutsu is the more common of the two, but a question to my japanese
(born and raised) girlfriend as to whether "jitsu" is used in normal
conversation caused her to cock her head sideways and say, "dou, kanna..."
"jutsu" and "jitsu" are both correct pronunciations, but "jitsu" is older, and
may not be used anymore in normal conversation.
David's "nin-jitsu" meaning "endurance-truth" is not a word in japanese,
though the kanji "jitsu" meaning truth does exist. i'm sure he realized this,
but i thought it might be a good idea to point it out.
Dan
===============================================
"We could dress 'em up like pink bunny rabbits,
and they'd still just wanna train"
- Troy Aulenback
===============================================
Dark Paladin
which one is right?
David L Burkhead
of my response to the originator of this thread (if that makes any
sense whatsoever), apparently, by the time it filtered through to
_this_ account, two messages got stuck onto the beginning of the
message. Those two messages had nothing to do with the topic at hand,
originally went to another newsgroup, and were posted from _this_
account rather than from the netcom account where my response in this
thread came from.
That is, without a doubt, the most bizarre piece of net wierdness
I've seen yet.
David L. Burkhead
r3d...@dax.cc.uakron.edu
d.l....@ix.netcom.com
David L. Burkhead
Got some good news this week (first I've received in a while).
Dr. Garland, one of the sociology professors here at the University and
the husband
of my Japanese teacher, has approved my independent study project.
So, as the subject says, next summer I'm going to Japan! Yatta!
The topic is "Religion in Japanese Daily Life." I'm looking at
those little things that people do, often without thinking about them,
that have, or
originally had, religious meaning. The professor agrees that there is
enough to the topic to justify the academic credit (and allow me to
draw financi
al aid to help pay for it), but to be honest it's an excuse. I just
want to go to Japan. Wakarimasu ka?
Now that the academic side is taken care of, I have to start
dealing with the logistics of the situation. I have to find cheap
airfare, get passpo
rt and visas, arrange lodging, check on availability of medical care
while I'm away (a _long_ way from home if I get sick or have an
accident, ne?), and
so on. One thing that has been suggested to me has been arranging
some form of "homestay" for while I'm there. This will not only save
money, but fit
s my topic really well.
I would love to hear any suggestions or thoughts you have on the
matter.
David
Got some good news this week (first I've received in a while).
Dr. Garland, one of the sociology professors here at the University and
the husband of my Ja
panese teacher, has approved my independent study project. So, as the
subject says, next summer I'm going to Japan! Yatta!
The topic is "Religion in Japanese Daily Life." I'm looking at
those little things that people do, often without thinking about them,
that have, or original
ly had, religious meaning. The professor agrees that there is enough
to the topic to justify the academic credit (and allow me to draw
financial aid to help pay
for it), but to be honest it's an excuse. I just want to go to Japan.
Wakarimasu ka?
Now that the academic side is taken care of, I have to start
dealing with the logistics of the situation. I have to find cheap
airfare, get passport and vi
sas, arrange lodging, check on availability of medical care while I'm
away (a _long_ way from home if I get sick or have an accident, ne?),
and so on. One thing
that has been suggested to me has been arranging some form of
"homestay" for while I'm there. This will not only save money, but
fits my topic really well.
I would love to hear any suggestions or thoughts you have on the
matter.
David
Got some good news this week (first I've received in a while).
Dr. Garland, one of the sociology professors here at the University and
the husband of my Ja
panese teacher, has approved my independent study project. So, as the
subject says, next summer I'm going to Japan! Yatta!
The topic is "Religion in Japanese Daily Life." I'm looking at
those little things that people do, often without thinking about them,
that have, or original
ly had, religious meaning. The professor agrees that there is enough
to the topic to justify the academic credit (and allow me to draw
financial aid to help pay
for it), but to be honest it's an excuse. I just want to go to Japan.
Wakarimasu ka?
Now that the academic side is taken care of, I have to start
dealing with the logistics of the situation. I have to find cheap
airfare, get passport and vi
sas, arrange lodging, check on availability of medical care while I'm
away (a _long_ way from home if I get sick or have an accident, ne?),
and so on. One thing
that has been suggested to me has been arranging some form of
"homestay" for while I'm there. This will not only save money, but
fits my topic really well.
I would love to hear any suggestions or thoughts you have on the
matter.
David
In <30B54E...@wustl.edu> Eric Hansen <eha...@wustl.edu> writes:
>
>David L. Burkhead wrote:
>> (I've only been studying
>> Japanese for just over two and a half months).
>> In _Japanese_, it would be spelled [ASCII art to follow]:
>> ******************* ** ****
>> ******************* ** ** ** ******
>> ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** *************
>> **** ** ** *** **
>> **** ** **** ** *******
>> ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** **
>> *************** *** ** **
>> *************** ** ** **
>> David
>>
>
>
>Hey, "Dave," only two months of Japanese language eh? I sure as
>hell couldn't tell! HAHA! Sorry, my man, but the second charactar
>there is wrong! Where'd you learn to spell ninja, from your
>Japanese kanji book or from one of Hatsumi's quack/rip-off the white
>trash ninja books? Show's you how much Hatsumi knows! Tell your
>ninja-overlord to stop watching those Frank Cucci seal team videos
>and take a look at taiheiki! No, make that REREAD taiheiki! After
>all, what kind of ninja wouldn't read it? HAHA! "Ninja!" If you
>want to learn the real stuff on ninja, stop reading the Hatsumi
>propoganda books on how to paralyze people with kiai's that are
>always lying around the MA section of Barnes & Nobles! The problem
>with all you ninja out there is that you use books and "ancient
>scrolls" that don't have any credibility themselves to justify your
>claims!! You need to look at the real deal, like taikeiki! You
>might not like what you see, but at least you know it's legit! And
>you don't even have to buy it at that overpriced Barnes and Nobles,
>just check it out at your local east asian library! Maybe you'll
>even meet Sol and Temple there! HAHA!
I wasn't spelling "Ninja." I was spelling "Ninjutsu." You edited
that little fact out of it. The source for the spelling is my Nelson
Kanji dictionary. You know, probably the largest, and most complete,
kanji dictionary in general availability.
Try _reading_ the posts you are criticizing. Otherwise your
sarcasm falls flat.
Jeff Kraschinski
>
> Path:
> news.crso.com!uunet.ca!news.uunet.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net
> vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!aga
> e
> news.ucdavis.edu!adder.ece.ucdavis.edu!brownen
> From: bro...@adder.ece.ucdavis.edu (Dark Paladin)
> Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
> Subject: correct spelling Ninjutsu or Ninjitsu?
> Date: 24 Nov 1995 04:13:17 GMT
> Organization: University of California, Davis
> Lines: 2
> Message-ID: <493got$r...@mark.ucdavis.edu>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: adder.ece.ucdavis.edu
> X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
>
>
> which one is right?
Ninjutsu.
Jeff Kraschinski 'jeff.kra...@canrem.com'
| AmiQWK 2.9 - FREEWARE |
.. If at first you don't suceed, you're about normal.
Steven Schmidt
The right one is the little slashes and dots called kanji.
DJR
d.l....@ix.netcom.com (David L. Burkhead ) wrote:
> You may want to look again. The second character I used was
>jutsu--art, technique, skill. You can look it up for yourself. It's
>Nelson 1621. I also went to my various J-E dictionaries and looked up
>"jutsu--truth." _None_ of them showed the character I used for that. I
>really don't know where _that_ interpretation came from. Wonderful
>things dictionaries. Nothing like looking things up to learn them.
>David L. Burkhead
david, you're a bit confused and probably haven't read the posts since your
original (it happens :-). the reference to "jitsu" was regarding the
suggestion by david lyle that "nin-jitsu" could be interpreted as
"endurance-truth" if one substituted a different kanji (the "truth" kanji).
we all understand that the kanji you meant to post was in fact jutsu.
(i couldn't read the ascII so i couldn't tell if it was the right one).
for those who missed the original to reply to "which is right - jutsu or
jitsu", "jutsu" is the modern reading generally used, while "jitsu" is another
reading for the same character. "jitsu is an older, probably outdated reading
which the japanese do not seem to use in modern times.
Dan
David L. Burkhead
>so...@guy.named (DJR) wrote:
>
>>
>>David's "nin-jitsu" meaning "endurance-truth" is not a word in
japanese,
>>though the kanji "jitsu" meaning truth does exist. i'm sure he
realized this,
>>but i thought it might be a good idea to point it out.
>>
>
>much sense. Although, I seen no reason why it couldn't be used as a
>word, I doubt very seriously if it has ever been used.
You may want to look again. The second character I used was
jutsu--art, technique, skill. You can look it up for yourself. It's
Nelson 1621. I also went to my various J-E dictionaries and looked up
"jutsu--truth." _None_ of them showed the character I used for that. I
really don't know where _that_ interpretation came from. Wonderful
things dictionaries. Nothing like looking things up to learn them.
If you have any complaints, refer them to Andrew N. Nelson, the
author of _The Modern Reader's Japanese-English Character Dictionary_.
Jon Merz
>Hey, "Dave," only two months of Japanese language eh? I sure as
>hell couldn't tell! HAHA! Sorry, my man, but the second charactar
>there is wrong! Where'd you learn to spell ninja, from your
>Japanese kanji book or from one of Hatsumi's quack/rip-off the white
>trash ninja books? Show's you how much Hatsumi knows! Tell your
>ninja-overlord to stop watching those Frank Cucci seal team videos
>and take a look at taiheiki! No, make that REREAD taiheiki! After
>all, what kind of ninja wouldn't read it? HAHA! "Ninja!" If you
>want to learn the real stuff on ninja, stop reading the Hatsumi
>propoganda books on how to paralyze people with kiai's that are
>always lying around the MA section of Barnes & Nobles! The problem
>with all you ninja out there is that you use books and "ancient
>scrolls" that don't have any credibility themselves to justify your
>claims!! You need to look at the real deal, like taikeiki! You
>might not like what you see, but at least you know it's legit! And
>you don't even have to buy it at that overpriced Barnes and Nobles,
>just check it out at your local east asian library! Maybe you'll
>even meet Sol and Temple there! HAHA!
Eric, Eric, Eric,
What's the matter, did you run out of useless things to say in the
five or so other flame wars you've started on this newsgroup and suddenly
feel compelled to spread your odious temperment to this thread? How
fortunate for all of us to be able to witness your absurdity and
foolishness first hand.
Regarding your comments above, you should also study your Japanese a
bit more "my man", and perhaps see that Dave wrote out the two characters
for Ninujutsu, not ninja. Of course in your infantile haste to keep the
flames hot, you immediately jumped right on in, eager to display your
total lack of any worthwhile behavior.
So aside from you badmouthing Hatsumi-sensei and insisting that
everyone read the "Taiheiki" or "Taikeiki" (well, which is it genius?),
you really haven't said anything worthwhile other than waste bandwidth on
your self-centered and hopelessly insecure rantings. Judging from your
other posts, I'd say you're about par for the course.
And by the way, what did Barnes & Noble ever do to you? Judging from
your ruthless attacks, it sounds like you were held hostage one Sunday
afternoon in the Kiddie Story Corner and forced to listen to Danny and
the Dinosaur being read over and over again. Obviously this has resulted
in the type of dementia you ceaselessly display.
Have a nice day and get some therapy,
Jon Merz
Boston Bujinkan Dojo
New England Ninpo Society
David Lyle
David,
I think you've missed a few posts. -Jutsu is the correct ending for
the martial art Ninjutsu. However, jitsu IS a word, that means
"truth". DJR and I were pointing out that while it's a word, it
doesn't go with nin to make a "ninjitsu".
On the other claw, the pronunciation could be correct using 'u' or
'i'.
K. Kim
Romanji or romanzi?
David L. Burkhead
>
>>d.l....@ix.netcom.com (David L. Burkhead ) wrote:
[ 8< snip >8 ]
>David,
>
>I think you've missed a few posts. -Jutsu is the correct ending for
>the martial art Ninjutsu. However, jitsu IS a word, that means
>"truth". DJR and I were pointing out that while it's a word, it
>doesn't go with nin to make a "ninjitsu".
>
>On the other claw, the pronunciation could be correct using 'u' or
>'i'.
Ah. Net lag strikes again. I think I saw this bit immediately
after some rather feeble flame directed at me about my "ascii art"
kanji characters.
Richard Jones
the correct spelling it depends on which romanization method is
followed, most Bujinkan people probably use jutsu I suppose.
Chad J. Landry
so quickly that the phonetic spelling depends on how the original
speller heard the word.
Look at the Tao Te Ching. I've heard several people argue that it
should be pronounced "Dow tay jing". Also that the "I Ching" should be
pronounced "Yee Jing". But whoever translated it into English spelled
it exactly as he/she heard it pronounced. I don't know of any English
speakers who would hear a "J" sound and spell it with "ch". Nor do I
know anyone who would spell a "D" sound with a "T".
I think in this case "jutsu" is probably correct, but when
pronounced quickly it sounds like jitsu. Either way, it's still the
same art.
Karl Friday
> I don't think that it really matters. The Japanese pronounce words
>so quickly that the phonetic spelling depends on how the original
>speller heard the word.
> Look at the Tao Te Ching. I've heard several people argue that it
>should be pronounced "Dow tay jing". Also that the "I Ching" should be
>pronounced "Yee Jing". But whoever translated it into English spelled
>it exactly as he/she heard it pronounced. I don't know of any English
>speakers who would hear a "J" sound and spell it with "ch". Nor do I
>know anyone who would spell a "D" sound with a "T".
The romanization that produces "Tao te ching" is the Wade-Giles system, which uses
the consonants t, p, and ch by themselves for their voiced equivalents (i.e. d, b & j) and
the same consonants followed by apostrophes (t' p' ch') for the sounds English speakers
normally associated with these consonants. The correct pronounciation IS "Dao de jing";
in the new Pinyin romanization system this is written "Daodejing." Romanization systems
are usually based only partially on what phonemes sound like to the ear of the system
authors. Conventions of the writing system used by the original language and/or
idiosyncracies of the phonetic system also play a role in deciding how to render what.
Karl Friday
Associate Professor
Dept. of History
University of Georgia
Krystal Locke
>David L. Burkhead wrote:
>> (I've only been studying
>> Japanese for just over two and a half months).
>> In _Japanese_, it would be spelled [ASCII art to follow]:
>> ******************* ** ****
>> ******************* ** ** ** ******
>> ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** *************
>> **** ** ** *** **
>> **** ** **** ** *******
>> ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** **
>> ** ** ** ** ** **
>> *************** *** ** **
>> *************** ** ** **
>> David
>>
>Hey, "Dave," only two months of Japanese language eh? I sure as
>hell couldn't tell! HAHA! Sorry, my man, but the second charactar
>there is wrong! Where'd you learn to spell ninja, from your
>Japanese kanji book or from one of Hatsumi's quack/rip-off the white
>trash ninja books?
Hmm, his rendering of the kanji for ninJUTSU looks just fine, I'm
sure if he was trying to show the kanji for ninJA, he would've. You
know, you're getting as tiresome as Elmo....
Krystal
WarScholar
Japanese words...the correct spelling is a kanji, which looks something
like a little house with a big antenna...I'm of the school of thought that
any spelling with western letters is incorrect. But not to quibble,
Stephen Hayes spells it "Jutsu", so I'd go with that.
M. "Doc" Black
David L Burkhead
Not all Japanese words have kanji representations. Some (most?)
are usually written with either hiragana or katakana. Even those that
have kanji renderings are not always written with them, and are again
written in either katakana or hiragana. Since the kana are phonetic
in nature, it's entirely possible to transliterate them into another
phonetic system, and entirely "correct" to do so, so long as the
transliteration system is defined properly. Indeed, the Japanese
_themselves_ use romanji quite often (not even _close_ to most of the
time, but often enough that you run into it in casual usage).
Now, I'm familiar with several transliteration schemes for
Japanese to English. My Japanese teacher (native born Japanese) uses
a modified version of the Hepburn system which she learned growing up
in Japan.
In none of these systems does "ji" = "ju." In all of them, the
transliteration of the kana spelling of the kanji would be "ninjutsu."
If an alternate reading of the kanji as "jitsu" exists I haven't seen
it in any of my references.
BTW:
** * *
** * * ******
** ******* ****
** ***** ***
** ***** **
** *** **
** **
*** **
** ** **
*** **
*****
= "jitsu"
** * *
** * * ******
** ******* ****
** ***** ***
** ***** **
** *** **
** **
*** **
** ** | /|\ *
*** ** | | | |
***** \___\| |
= "jutsu"
In hiragana, of course.
FiveBirds5
while "jitsu" a more scientific one. This minor difference may be a
subtle way for students to detect lineage, background and orientation. Or,
it might just prove that one, or the other teacher doesn't know his jit
from his jut.
FiveBirds5