SCARS self defense system
angrys...@my-deja.com
I am looking to start a thread on the SCARS self defense system. What
do people think of it? So far, I have found it to be very different from
most martial arts. It is not flashy and looks very effective. I am
pretty confident that if I do need to use it I will get the job done
quickly, efficiently and with little or no damage. If I do get hurt,
the person I fought will be in tougher shape than I will be...that's for
sure! Any users of this system, please post here with your comments!
Thanks!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
sageofwisdom
shitty version of jerry peterson's SCARS system. in my opinion, talking to
people that have experienced SCARS, it is one of the biggest jokes to hit
the martial arts community since tae-bo. you are better off with an art
like jkd or kali if you are looking for realism.
<angrys...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7t44ch$5dt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Strife
in on the new interest in "Martial Arts." Of course, I also have a healthy
suspicion of people claiming to be ex-special forces, assassins, SEALS,
Green Berets, etc. ;)
Cheers,
Trevor
sageofwisdom <sageof...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:7t470q$2v3$1...@tucc11.tucc.trinity.edu...
angrys...@my-deja.com
"Strife" <gs0...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've seen a little of SCARS and it looks and sounds like an attempt to
cash
> in on the new interest in "Martial Arts." Of course, I also have a
healthy
> suspicion of people claiming to be ex-special forces, assassins,
SEALS,
> Green Berets, etc. ;)
>
> Cheers,
> Trevor
>
Where did you see a little bit of scars? The only small clips of it you
wouls see on the SCARS web site but it's really not enough to see the
whole system. I chose this system since it is not flashy, effective and
gets the job done quickly. It's not really a martial art at all
and I probably wouldn't want to spend the time taking another
martial art since most of them take a couple of years to be
proficient and encourages blocking as for defense instead of
striking. Rather, it's a self defense system which is actually used for
navy seals training. I know that people should be aware of scams but
these are verifiable fact. I verified this is true because 1. the SCARS
site has verifiable facts on their site claiming this and 2. I have a
friend who was in special forces and he has friends who are SEALS who
ent through this training.
Thanks for your input!
Mike
Chas
> ...Rather, it's a self defense system which is actually used for
> navy seals training. I know that people should be aware of scams but
> these are verifiable fact. I verified this is true because 1. the SCARS
> site has verifiable facts on their site claiming this and 2. I have a
> friend who was in special forces and he has friends who are SEALS who
> ent through this training.
I would wholeheartedly recommend such training for highly motivated,
extremely athletic, professional warriors in a combat environment. The
perfunctory exposure to 'unarmed' fighting skills that is provided for a
highly trained operative with the best combat equipment in the world is
sufficient for his projected needs.
If I were looking for a government cachet for unarmed fighting skills, I
might faster look at the stuff being taught to the State Department
people and the Counter Intelligence guys; the ones without the H&K's and
explosives.
Chas
Kuialua666
James Connor
I chose this system since it is not flashy, effective and
> gets the job done quickly.
I assumed you verified this through personal interaction with some rude
person--otherwise you're just parroting, BRAWK!
It's not really a martial art at all
> and I probably wouldn't want to spend the time taking another
> martial art since most of them take a couple of years to be
> proficient and encourages blocking as for defense instead of
> striking. Rather, it's a self defense system which is actually used for
> navy seals training.
No. It's based on San Shou Kung-Fu. It focuses on chaining techniques
together based on documented and tested reactions of the human body to
certain types of strikes and manipulations. These reactions are verifiable,
but they are NOT consistent enough to be the basis of self defense.
Studying SCARS-free San Shou would be a better value. Any good combat
system will take 2-3 years to be consistently useful, anyway. If a program
existed that gave consistent results like SCARS says, then EVERYONE would
know about it and study it--sorry dude. SCARS is the AMWAY of Martial Arts.
They suck you in, charge you outrageous prices--and then tell you that it's
all worth it because of how good it is. Your choice is either to nod your
head and keep going, and paying. Or to admit what a huge mistake it was and
walk away. To hard on many peoples egos--and very filling for SCARS bank
accounts. Worst of all, much of the core technique can't be practiced
realisticall because of the damage it allegedly causes (And some of it DOES
cause serious damage, but so do a lot of other systems...). Ones training
partner is expected to react "properly" and "realistically" to ones
attacks. ) Look up "Hawthorne Affect" online somewhere.)
I know that people should be aware of scams but
> these are verifiable fact. I verified this is true because 1. the SCARS
> site has verifiable facts on their site claiming this
YOUR evidence and verification is where, sir?
and 2. I have a
> friend who was in special forces and he has friends who are SEALS who
> ent through this training.
Fantasy Land It was a short term contract with the Navy. No more than a
couple hundred SEALs were even exposed to the system--it was rejected. Your
friend passed along second-hand information. Hardly useful.
> Thanks for your input!
>
> Mike
Alas, Mike we hardly knew ye'. SCARS has sucked you wallet and your brain
dry. You even write like an AMWAY drone. Alas, Alas...
Jim
Jerry Love
A learned skill for inflicting damage? That would be a martial art.
> > and I probably wouldn't want to spend the time taking another
> > martial art since most of them take a couple of years to be
> > proficient
I know some that wou can learn in 6months (to the point of usefullness) and
others that it is 4 years before you can hope to win a fight with.
> and encourages blocking as for defense instead of striking.
Some arts, not all.
> > Rather, it's a self defense system which is actually used for
> > navy seals training.
It's suprisingly easy to get your local seal team to let you come in and
teach something. It's something else if the Navy considers it essetial
training.
> No. It's based on San Shou Kung-Fu. It focuses on chaining techniques
> together based on documented and tested reactions of the human body to
> certain types of strikes and manipulations. These reactions are
verifiable,
> but they are NOT consistent enough to be the basis of self defense.
That is what I have heard of it. The other problem from that description is
that missing a link in the chain causes the technique to fail. Too rigid.
> I know that people should be aware of scams but
> > these are verifiable fact. I verified this is true because 1. the SCARS
> > site has verifiable facts on their site claiming this
>
> YOUR evidence and verification is where, sir?
That was a little harsh of a response, but I would concur. Did you verify
them? And what exactly did they establish?
> > and 2. I have a friend who was in special forces
> > and he has friends who are SEALS who ent through
> > this training.
There are some great martial artists in the millitary. Millitary training
fir unarmed combat has so far failed to impress me. They are more interested
in aggressivness, stealth, etc, than in actual combat skill. (not that those
aren't important too)
> > Thanks for your input!
> >
> > Mike
>
> Alas, Mike we hardly knew ye'. SCARS has sucked you wallet and your brain
> dry. You even write like an AMWAY drone. Alas, Alas...
>
Harsh
Don Young
<angrys...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7t80no$h1m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <7t6cu8$b4a$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net>,
> "Strife" <gs0...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I've seen a little of SCARS and it looks and sounds like an attempt to
> cash
> > in on the new interest in "Martial Arts." Of course, I also have a
> healthy
> > suspicion of people claiming to be ex-special forces, assassins,
> SEALS,
> > Green Berets, etc. ;)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Trevor
> >
> Hi Trevor!
>
> Where did you see a little bit of scars? The only small clips of it you
> wouls see on the SCARS web site but it's really not enough to see the
> gets the job done quickly. It's not really a martial art at all
> and I probably wouldn't want to spend the time taking another
> martial art since most of them take a couple of years to be
> striking. Rather, it's a self defense system which is actually used for
> navy seals training. I know that people should be aware of scams but
> these are verifiable fact. I verified this is true because 1. the SCARS
> friend who was in special forces and he has friends who are SEALS who
> ent through this training.
Just as an FYI, the official statement of the United States Navy SEALS is:
"Scars is based solely on Kung-Fu. The Scars system is not used at all in
today's Navy SEAL Teams. Scars had only a limited and separate teaching.
It's developer was never a SEAL or even a member of any other type of
Special Forces. Scars has been banned from the Teams, and its developer
who had merely changed the name "Kung Fu" to Scars) has been black listed
for lying in his advertisements. Very few Navy SEALs ever took the Scars
course-it's use was limited to BUDs students who were not yet SEALs."
http://www.navysealteams.com/SCARS.htm
This may be an effective style, but the Navy SEALs don't seem to think so.
> Mike
-Don
Adam Baker
news:kZ7K3.493$5X2....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
> > It's not really a martial art at all
>
Unless you actually look at the words. Practitioners of martial arts are (or
should be) called martial artists. An artist is "a person whose creative
work shows sensitivity and imagination." So then not everybody that whacks a
guy with a pipe is a martial artist, and cannot therefore be said to
practice martial arts.
There is a difference between a martial art and a self-defense system.
Adam
Russell L. Rader
> > > It's not really a martial art at all
> >
> > A learned skill for inflicting damage? That would be a martial art.
>
> Unless you actually look at the words. Practitioners of martial arts are
(or
> should be) called martial artists. An artist is "a person whose creative
> work shows sensitivity and imagination." So then not everybody that
whacks a
> guy with a pipe is a martial artist, and cannot therefore be said to
> practice martial arts.
>
> There is a difference between a martial art and a self-defense system.
If you want aesthetics, sensitivity and imagination, take up ballet.
Russ
Jerry Love
> "Scars is based solely on Kung-Fu. The Scars system is not used at all in
> today's Navy SEAL Teams. Scars had only a limited and separate teaching.
> It's developer was never a SEAL or even a member of any other type of
> Special Forces. Scars has been banned from the Teams, and its developer
> who had merely changed the name "Kung Fu" to Scars) has been black listed
> for lying in his advertisements. Very few Navy SEALs ever took the Scars
> course-it's use was limited to BUDs students who were not yet SEALs."
>
> http://www.navysealteams.com/SCARS.htm
>
> This may be an effective style, but the Navy SEALs don't seem to think so.
>
> -Don
Not to defend SCARS (I haven't really seen it) but this site is not a US
millitary site. It is a site operated by (according to their claim) A group
of former SEALs. They have some SEAL history that seems accurate and may or
may not be what they claim. The point is that they are selling their own
martial art videos in competition with SCARS. So weather it was legit or
not, they would definately be predisposed to deface it.
Jerry Love
Jerry Love
> >
> > A learned skill for inflicting damage? That would be a martial art.
>
> Unless you actually look at the words. Practitioners of martial arts are
(or
> should be) called martial artists. An artist is "a person whose creative
> work shows sensitivity and imagination."
Merriam Webster
Main Entry: art·ist
Pronunciation: 'är-tist
Function: noun
Date: circa 1507
1 a obsolete : one skilled or versed in learned arts b archaic : PHYSICIAN c
archaic : ARTISAN
2 a : one who professes and practices an imaginative art b : a person
skilled in one of the fine arts
3 : a skilled performer; especially : ARTISTE
4 : one who is adept at something <con artist> <strikeout artist>
I refer you to definitions 1a, 2a, 3, and 4
> So then not everybody that whacks a guy with a pipe is a
> martial artist, and cannot therefore be said to
> practice martial arts.
Nope, have o do it skillfully.
> There is a difference between a martial art and a self-defense system.
Sure, a boobytrap is self defence, it is not a martial art (though making
one may be)
Main Entry: mar·tial
Pronunciation: 'mär-sh&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin martialis of Mars, from Mart-, Mars
Date: 14th century
1 : of, relating to, or suited for war or a warrior
2 : relating to an army or to military life
3 : experienced in or inclined to war : WARLIKE
Main Entry: 2art
Pronunciation: 'ärt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin art-, ars -- more at
ARM
Date: 13th century
1 : skill acquired by experience, study, or observation <the art of making
friends>
2 a : a branch of learning: (1) : one of the humanities (2) plural : LIBERAL
ARTS b archaic : LEARNING, SCHOLARSHIP
3 : an occupation requiring knowledge or skill <the art of organ building>
4 a : the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the
production of aesthetic objects; also : works so produced b (1) : FINE ARTS
(2) : one of the fine arts (3) : a graphic art
5 a archaic : a skillful plan b : the quality or state of being artful
James Connor
> > Just as an FYI, the official statement of the United States Navy SEALS
is:
>
> > "Scars is based solely on Kung-Fu. The Scars system is not used at all
in
> > today's Navy SEAL Teams. Scars had only a limited and separate teaching.
> > It's developer was never a SEAL or even a member of any other type of
> > Special Forces. Scars has been banned from the Teams, and its developer
> > who had merely changed the name "Kung Fu" to Scars) has been black
listed
> > for lying in his advertisements. Very few Navy SEALs ever took the Scars
> > course-it's use was limited to BUDs students who were not yet SEALs."
This is all true. It's not that difficult to get the SEALs to take a
seminar in ones art, or even an entire training cycle. SCARS never saw
regular training. As far as I know, SAFTA isn't in regular use either.
Both depend heavily on automatic responses that IMO aren't consistent enough
to be the core of a fighting system, a useful adjunct absolutely, but not
the core. Of course, if ones opponent were also a soldier of some kind and
not under the influence of any blood/mind altering substances, this would
increase the systems effectiveness somewhat. But only somewhat. This
doesn't change the fact that, by the hour, SCARS is some of the most
expensive training on the planet and does operate on a business model
similar to AMWAY. Scary.
Jim
Jerry Love
> not under the influence of any blood/mind altering substances, this would
> increase the systems effectiveness somewhat.
jb...@my-deja.com
> If I were looking for a government cachet for unarmed fighting skills,
I
> might faster look at the stuff being taught to the State Department
> people and the Counter Intelligence guys; the ones without the H&K's
and
> explosives.
>
> Chas
>
Interesting. Any suggestions on where to dig up info on this? Also for
those looking for a no frills street-effective system I have heard a lot
of good things about Krav Maga. To anyone unfamiliar with KM it is a
style developed by & for the Israeli military, that alone is a pretty
decent endorsement.
Chas
>
> > If I were looking for a government cachet for unarmed fighting skills,
> I
> > might faster look at the stuff being taught to the State Department
> > people and the Counter Intelligence guys; the ones without the H&K's
> and
> > explosives.
No, if I told you, I'd have to kill you. Besides, it would look like
puffery.
Chas
Jerry Love
> those looking for a no frills street-effective system I have heard a lot
> of good things about Krav Maga. To anyone unfamiliar with KM it is a
> style developed by & for the Israeli military, that alone is a pretty
> decent endorsement.
I've only seen the article one of the magazines did on it, there appears to
be no schools of it here. What I saw looked sometihng like first-six-months
silat (maybe a little madi, a little Serah). But I don't know weather they
were showing their better stuff or their beginning stuff or what.
BTW, coming from me, that's probibly a complament.
GOU RONIN®
>jb...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Interesting. Any suggestions on where to dig up info on this?
>No, if I told you, I'd have to kill you.
Can you just tell me a little and hurt me a lot?
GOU RONIN® - The Unforgiven...
http://members.tripod.com/~kenpo_ronin/dragon.html
Don Young
Jerry Love <b...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DXaK3.1218$5X2....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
> > Just as an FYI, the official statement of the United States Navy SEALS
is:
>
> > "Scars is based solely on Kung-Fu. The Scars system is not used at all
in
> > today's Navy SEAL Teams. Scars had only a limited and separate teaching.
> > It's developer was never a SEAL or even a member of any other type of
> > Special Forces. Scars has been banned from the Teams, and its developer
> > who had merely changed the name "Kung Fu" to Scars) has been black
listed
> > for lying in his advertisements. Very few Navy SEALs ever took the Scars
> > course-it's use was limited to BUDs students who were not yet SEALs."
> >
> >
> > This may be an effective style, but the Navy SEALs don't seem to think
so.
> >
> > -Don
>
> Not to defend SCARS (I haven't really seen it) but this site is not a US
> millitary site. It is a site operated by (according to their claim) A
group
> of former SEALs. They have some SEAL history that seems accurate and may
or
> may not be what they claim. The point is that they are selling their own
> martial art videos in competition with SCARS. So weather it was legit or
> not, they would definately be predisposed to deface it.
>
> Jerry Love
Thanks for pointing this out, Jerry. I retract my earlier statement that
the rejection of SCARS is the OFFICIAL SEALs statement.
-Don
angrys...@my-deja.com
"James Connor" <joco...@erols.com> wrote:
Hi Jim,
First, the only rude person that has posted on this thread is you.
Second, if you did your homework and visited the SCARS website you will
realize that Jerry Peterson did look at many different martial arts and
took what he felt was usefull and incorporated it into his system. So
he may have incorporated the useful parts of the art you talk about.
The only accurate between SCARS and Amway would be that both companies
are very profitable. The difference between Amway and SCARS is that the
SCARS system is effective. If it wasn't, then Jerry would not be
able to charge $5,000 for a personal training course and training
professional security experts throughout the world. And may I suggest
that before you continue bashing the SCARS system, you should read the
review in blackbelt magazine about an editors trip to the SCARS camp.
(which can be found at their site, by the way). But of course, you know
more about effective martial arts than someone who reviews them for a
living, don't you?
> Hardly useful.
The only thing that is hardly useful is your ego.
> Alas, Mike we hardly knew ye'. SCARS has sucked you wallet and your
brain dry. You even write like an AMWAY drone. Alas, Alas...
>
Gee Jim, you must have really gotten hosed by Amway. Maybe you can all
that negativity inside yourself and focus your attention on writing a
positive critisism, like the rest of the posters! Or better
yet, try working on the "humility" aspect of martial arts. (you
do take a martial art, don't you jim?) And no Jim, humiliate is
not the same as being humble. Learning, teaching and sharing is
the key. And in case your curious, I'm pretty happy with my purchase
and am looking forward to practicing and discussing SCARS techniques
with others in this forum.
Bye!
JimS
>
>In article <7tatv5$i7m$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net>,
> "James Connor" <joco...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Jim,
>First, the only rude person that has posted on this thread is you.
>Second, if you did your homework and visited the SCARS website you will
>realize that Jerry Peterson did look at many different martial arts and
>took what he felt was usefull and incorporated it into his system.
Well, I'm not Jim Connor, nor do I play him on T.V., but unfortunately, your
reply to him isn't enough. The thoughtful person will ask what prior expertise
Jerry Peterson has in martial arts, for one thing. And what *he* "thought was
useful" might differ from what somebody else would pick. Therefore, the system
must be evaluated on its own merits (or lack of), and folks shouldn't just repeat
some party line.
>So he may have incorporated the useful parts of the art you talk about.
He may have, and he may haven't. His own experience is in question because of his
claims, so we can't assume.
>The only accurate between SCARS and Amway would be that both companies
>are very profitable. The difference between Amway and SCARS is that the
>SCARS system is effective. If it wasn't, then Jerry would not be
>able to charge $5,000 for a personal training course and training
>professional security experts throughout the world.
Heh
This is really impressive, bud.
Must verify the system if some yahoo is suckered into paying $5000 for it, eh?
>And may I suggest
>that before you continue bashing the SCARS system, you should read the
>review in blackbelt magazine about an editors trip to the SCARS camp.
>(which can be found at their site, by the way). But of course, you know
>more about effective martial arts than someone who reviews them for a
>living, don't you?
Bwahahahahaha
Yeah, those editors on Black Belt are just dynamite, aren't they?
>> Alas, Mike we hardly knew ye'. SCARS has sucked you wallet and your
>brain dry. You even write like an AMWAY drone. Alas, Alas...
>>
>Gee Jim, you must have really gotten hosed by Amway.
No, he's tired of salesmanship, like I am.
You're droning on like you're getting paid to advertise this stuff, pal.
At least tell Jerry you want some cold hard cash for pushing his system.
>I'm pretty happy with my purchase
>and am looking forward to practicing and discussing SCARS techniques
>with others in this forum.
Are ya? That's good. I sparred with a guy who learned SCARS back when it was
taught in BUD/S. Stuff sucks, in my opinion. Everybody's entitled to their opinion,
so if you love it, by all means continue on, and ignore that faint laughter you
hear out in T.V. land...
Regards,
Q.
James Connor
I owe you an apology. I wrote my long-winded reply before I read
yours. I think maybe I like yours better.
Jim
James Connor
> Hi Jim,
>
> First, the only rude person that has posted on this thread is you.
I beg to differ. Everything you wrote is rife with characteristics of
persons who have spent long periods with cults. I do apologize, though, for
not sugar coating it. I understand some people are prepared for it--and
some aren't. Also, who ended his first reply to a responding post with
condescension and "...thanks for your input!..." Who are YOU to thank
anyone?
> Second, if you did your homework and visited the SCARS website you will
> realize that Jerry Peterson did look at many different martial arts and
> took what he felt was usefull and incorporated it into his system.
So have a lot of people. Many work a LOT better and MOST cost a LOT less.
There's a pattern here...
> So he may have incorporated the useful parts of the art you talk about.
I spoke of no particular art except to compare one aspect of SCARS and
SAFTA.
> The only accurate between SCARS and Amway would be that both companies
> are very profitable.
True. AMWAY can afford a better legal team--which they need for the record
number of lawsuits against them. Oh and most of the money belongs to the
Van Andels and the DeVos's.
> The difference between Amway and SCARS is that the
> SCARS system is effective.
Oh really?
> If it wasn't, then Jerry would not be
> able to charge $5,000 for a personal training course and training
> professional security experts throughout the world.
This is a joke right? Since when does a price tag bear a DIRECT
relationship to quality? (Someone has never worked in retail...)
And may I suggest
> that before you continue bashing the SCARS system, you should read the
> review in blackbelt magazine about an editors trip to the SCARS camp.
Was it free? Does SCARS pay for advertising in Blackbelt magazine? That
would be.......YES! (Draw your own conclusions.)
> (which can be found at their site, by the way). But of course, you know
> more about effective martial arts than someone who reviews them for a
> living, don't you?
That was a stupid thing to say. If I spent all my time going to seminars
and writing reviews how good could I get? I think that you just
short-changed people who have spent many years getting good at what they
do--DESPITE having to review them.
> The only thing that is hardly useful is your ego.
Not at all. One could even say it is used too much. ;-)
> Gee Jim, you must have really gotten hosed by Amway.
Nope, I fought 'em off bravely
>Maybe you can all
> that negativity inside yourself and focus your attention on writing a
> positive critisism, like the rest of the posters!
I am positive that SCARS is a waste of time and money. What good stuff
there is in SCARS, I am POSITIVE I can get elsewhere cheaper. How's THAT
for positive? (grab me a bucket will you? My sarcasm is dripping...)
> try working on the "humility" aspect of martial arts.
Humility? Why is straightforward opinion bad. Maybe the AMWAY crack WAS
unnecessary, though.
> (you do take a martial art, don't you jim?)
Umm... Martial Art. No not really. I just parrot things I read in
Blackbelt and off of other peoples web sites, since I have few insights and
little experience of my own...(oops, there I go again, get that bucket...)
> And in case your curious, I'm pretty happy with my purchase
> and am looking forward to practicing and discussing SCARS techniques
> with others in this forum.
I'm glad that you are happy with your purchase. My point was and IS, that
all you did here to support what you said, regardless of topic or content,
was to quote other sources:
1.) Visit the SCARS website. THE place to go for unbiased info on SCARS...
2.) Jerry Peterson studied many things and included them in his art. That's
original. Take a closer look and do your OWN research to see what this
means. And DO check out San Shou Kung Fu. I think you'll be surprised.
3.) Jerry charges shit-loads of money, so it must be good. I can't even
TOUCH this one. Touche', sir. Ever see how much repeat business he gets?
How many of those are politically connected?
4.) The SCARS system is good because it's effective. Ipso Facto, NO, NO,
NO! What do YOU personally know about its effectiveness? I don't know a
damn thing about it. Well, slightly more than a damn thing, but I DO know
this--If it was so GODDAMN awesome, everyone would be praising it, copying
it and marketing it. And for a LOT less. Not happening.
5.) The editors of a well known magazine, (who NOT coincidentally rely
heavily on advertising to stay in print), went to a camp given by one of
their "client" advertisers. And although many of the writers and editors
are distinguished artists in their own right, that doesn't keep Blackbelt
magazine from being first a business, no matter how people would like it to
be otherwise. Over half the magazine is ads. Another great place to get
the ungarnished word.
It may sound like I'm being overly harsh--I am. Use YOUR experience to
support your opinions and claims. We couldhave read this stuff on our own
without you and goten the same content. I already did. A while ago. SCARS
is STILL wildly over-priced.
Sorry dude,
Jim
JimS
>
>Jim,
> I owe you an apology.
No need to apologize, Jimbo.
>I wrote my long-winded reply before I read
>yours. I think maybe I like yours better.
> Jim
I see much in common with our replies, and when you have some independent skepticism
that agrees, it lends more weight to the observations.
Trouble is, folks who usually fall for this SCARS of SAFTA stuff are usually self-taught
video learners, and you can't really learn any striking art that way.
As for the SEALS, they know they got duped on this one, which is why they switched.
The thing is, some folks don't seem to realize how the military in general experiments with
things like this, and if something doesn't pan out, it will *eventually* fall by
the wayside (we're being optimistic, but it is survival of the fittest even if it occurs
at a snail's pace :-).
.
angrys...@my-deja.com
Jim.S...@Uchsc.edu (JimS) wrote:
> Well, I'm not Jim Connor, nor do I play him on T.V., but
>unfortunately, your reply to him isn't enough.
Why you are replying to an email directed towards someone else
definitely shows that you need a life! :>
>
>>The only accurate between SCARS and Amway would be that both companies
>>are very profitable. The difference between Amway and SCARS is that
>>the SCARS system is effective. If it wasn't, then Jerry would not be
>> >able to charge $5,000 for a personal training course and training
>>professional security experts throughout the world.
>
> Heh This is really impressive, bud. Must verify the system if some
yahoo is suckered into paying $5000 for it, eh?
Well, I think that someone spending that kind of money must be
intelligent enough to determine whether the system Jerry teaches is
worth the money, don't you? What would you suggest as a measurement of
success? Jellybeans?
> >And may I suggest that before you continue bashing the SCARS system,
>>you should read the review in blackbelt magazine about an editors trip
>>to the SCARS camp.(which can be found at their site, by the way). But
>>of course, you knowmore about effective martial arts than someone who
>>reviews them for a living, don't you?
>
> Bwahahahahaha Yeah, those editors on Black Belt are just dynamite,
aren't they?
Actually yes. Blackbelt is a pretty reputable magazine in the martial
arts community and has been around for a very long time. Why don't you
go on down to Jerry's camp and write your own review if you think they
are incompetant. He might even let you in for free if you tell him how
good you are! :)
> >I'm pretty happy with my purchase and am looking forward to
>>practicing and discussing SCARS techniques with others in this forum.
> Are ya? That's good. I sparred with a guy who learned SCARS back when
> it was taught in BUD/S. Stuff sucks, in my opinion. Everybody's
>entitled to their opinion, so if you love it, by all means continue on,
> and ignore that faint laughter you hear out in T.V. land...
Really? It sucks? What martial art do you practice? You must be a gra
nd master at it! Maybe you should write your own course since you think
the SCARS system sucks so bad. And you must have kicked that Navy
Seal's butt when you sparred with him right? Yeah...and then you took
on his whole squad and kicked their butts too, right? Dude, the only
faint laughter you hear is inside your head...you are insaine! Opinions
are fine, as are the lies you are telling. Just remember to distinguish
which ones you are spewing right now.
Squirrel
Roland Lee
snip, snip...
: > Well, I'm not Jim Connor, nor do I play him on T.V., but
: >unfortunately, your reply to him isn't enough.
: Why you are replying to an email directed towards someone else
: definitely shows that you need a life! :>
This is a public forum...he can do whatever he likes. And he wasn't
replying to an 'e-mail'...he was replying to a post which he has every
right to do.
snip, snip...
: > Heh This is really impressive, bud. Must verify the system if some
: yahoo is suckered into paying $5000 for it, eh?
: Well, I think that someone spending that kind of money must be
: intelligent enough to determine whether the system Jerry teaches is
: worth the money, don't you? What would you suggest as a measurement of
: success? Jellybeans?
A reasonable measure of success for any fighting system is effective-
ness. How much it costs is irrelevant. For God's sake, in some
places, you can probably get decent training for a whole chicken or a
plug of tobacco. And as for why people would shell out the $5000 for
the course if it were not worth it...are you saying that nobody's ever
been scammed before?
snip, snip...
: > Bwahahahahaha Yeah, those editors on Black Belt are just dynamite,
: aren't they?
: Actually yes. Blackbelt is a pretty reputable magazine in the martial
: arts community and has been around for a very long time. Why don't you
: go on down to Jerry's camp and write your own review if you think they
: are incompetant. He might even let you in for free if you tell him how
: good you are! :)
Actually, I think the last time the Blackbelt was a 'reputable magazine'
was back in the 80's or so. I flip through it once in a while but I
stopped reading it because too much of the magazine was taken up by ads
and most of the articles were rehashes of previous writings, i.e. 'Is XXXX
the ultimate art?' As for writing one's own review of SCARS training, it
really doesn't make sense. The training costs $5000. A typical article
pays $150 or so. You do the math...
: > Are ya? That's good. I sparred with a guy who learned SCARS back when
: > it was taught in BUD/S. Stuff sucks, in my opinion. Everybody's
: >entitled to their opinion, so if you love it, by all means continue on,
: > and ignore that faint laughter you hear out in T.V. land...
: Really? It sucks? What martial art do you practice? You must be a gra
: nd master at it! Maybe you should write your own course since you think
: the SCARS system sucks so bad. And you must have kicked that Navy
: Seal's butt when you sparred with him right?
The NAVY SEALS are good at what they do. What they do involves, in part,
killing people. They usually kill people with guns and explosives and by
calling in air-strikes on them. I'm no expert, but if I had a silenced
H & K MP5 and I was faced with an enemy soldier, I would much rather zipper
him with a burst of 9 mm P's than engage him in hand to hand combat. I
think most NAVY SEALS would concur. Being a NAVY SEAL doesn't make you
invincible in hand-to-hand combat. It probably helps since I imagine they're
in phenomenal shape. But I think the consensus out there is that only a
small portion of NAVY SEALS training is spent on hand-to-hand. If you
put a NAVY SEAL in a ring with a trained fighter, he'd probably get his
head handed to him. If you put the trained fighter in a jungle at night
with a submachine gun with a NAVY SEAL armed with same, the trained fighter
would probably end up full of 9 mm caliber holes.
--
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
Roland S. Lee
Materials Science and Engineering
University of Pennsylvania
rl...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
JimS
>
>angrys...@my-deja.com wrote:
>: > Bwahahahahaha Yeah, those editors on Black Belt are just dynamite,
>: aren't they?
>
>: Actually yes. Blackbelt is a pretty reputable magazine in the martial
>: arts community and has been around for a very long time.
Shows me what you know. Look, moron, I *published* for Black Belt.
I knew the editors back in the early 80s fairly well, so have some idea of what's
typical.
You? Please state your experience with Black Belt in the blank below:
___________________
Wait! Why is this line still empty?
> Why don't you
>: go on down to Jerry's camp and write your own review if you think they
>: are incompetant. He might even let you in for free if you tell him how
>: good you are! :)
I think it sucks, so why would I want to pay money to go see him? Duh.
Tell you what. *You* are a convert, so why don't you make an attempt to spar
with me? If you're better than I am, you can brag online about SCARS right here :-).
>: > Are ya? That's good. I sparred with a guy who learned SCARS back when
>: > it was taught in BUD/S. Stuff sucks, in my opinion. Everybody's
>: >entitled to their opinion, so if you love it, by all means continue on,
>: > and ignore that faint laughter you hear out in T.V. land...
>
>: Really? It sucks? What martial art do you practice? You must be a gra
>: nd master at it!
How does that follow?
What if it's simply that people learning SCARS haven't been exposed to much in
the way of technique? You're a genuis, buddy.
Ya know, much as I love these kinds of posts, I'm tired of taking flack from morons.
I think it's time for a break from RMA. Like Arnold says in Terminator II,
I need a vacation.
Cheers,
Q.
MattBarnz
>Just as an FYI, the official statement of the United States Navy SEALS is:
>
>"Scars is based solely on Kung-Fu. The Scars system is not used at all in
>today's Navy SEAL Teams. Scars had only a limited and separate teaching.
>It's developer was never a SEAL or even a member of any other type of
>Special Forces. Scars has been banned from the Teams, and its developer
> who had merely changed the name "Kung Fu" to Scars) has been black listed
>for lying in his advertisements. Very few Navy SEALs ever took the Scars
>course-it's use was limited to BUDs students who were not yet SEALs."
>
>http://www.navysealteams.com/SCARS.htm
>
>This may be an effective style, but the Navy SEALs don't seem to think so.
>
>
>-Don
>
I too believe that the SCARS system is pretty much the festival of hype, but
please don't fall prey to the same questionable sourcing that our original
poster did. The website that link goes to simply sells a competing product.
Please note that it is :
'http://www.navysealteams.com/SCARS.htm'
As opposed to a '.gov' website that might imply that it was an 'official' navy
seals site.
Just a point of info.
MB
matt...@aol.com
JimS
>
>In article <7tjaie$amj$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>, rl...@blue.seas.upenn.edu says...
>>
>>angrys...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>>: > Bwahahahahaha Yeah, those editors on Black Belt are just dynamite,
>>: aren't they?
>>
>>: Actually yes. Blackbelt is a pretty reputable magazine in the martial
>>: arts community and has been around for a very long time.
>
>Shows me what you know. Look, moron, I *published* for Black Belt.
>I knew the editors back in the early 80s fairly well, so have some idea of what's
>typical.
I just reread my last post and realized that I had mistakingly included Roland Lee's name at
the top, so apologies to Roland. My replies have nothing to do with his insightful
remarks.
Later,
JS
angrys...@my-deja.com
> This is a public forum...he can do whatever he likes. And he wasn't
> replying to an 'e-mail'...he was replying to a post which he has every
> right to do.
Oh, good call! You got a 1/2 point for differentiating between a post
and an email. I'll email your professors as to an increase in your
reading comprehension so they can give you tests that are as hard as the
ones your classmates are taking. Oh, I almost forgot that you're a
professor there...sorry! :)
>
> A reasonable measure of success for any fighting system is effective-
> ness. How much it costs is irrelevant. For God's sake, in some
> places, you can probably get decent training for a whole chicken or a
> plug of tobacco. And as for why people would shell out the $5000 for
> the course if it were not worth it...are you saying that nobody's ever
> been scammed before?
I don't know when your from (your domain looks like a university) but
last time I checked, money spent is a pretty good denominator as to the
percieved value of a good or service. The fact that people consistantly
spend this kind of money on his system, the types of his customer (navy
seals, special forces..etc..) show that this system is VALUABLE!! Yes,
people have been scammed before but wake up and smell the coffee...
Have you ever tried to bid on a government contract? No, didn't think
so. It is EXTREMELY competitive. Short of it is that your argument is a
loser. Next comment.
> Actually, I think the last time the Blackbelt was a 'reputable
>magazine' was back in the 80's or so. I flip through it once in a
>while but I stopped reading it because too much of the magazine was
>taken up >by ads and most of the articles were rehashes of previous
>writings, i.e. 'Is XXXX the ultimate art?' As for writing one's own
>review of SCARS training, it really doesn't make sense. The training
>costs $5000. A typical article pays $150 or so. You do the math...
Let's try some math for you. Not only has blackbelt been around a long
time because of it's avertisement costs, but also because of the content
of their magazine. You don't think it's a good magazine that's ok.
There are others who would differ from your opinion. Probably not on
this forum though because people are having too much fun trying to poke
holes in everything I say! :)
next bash, please? :>
Roland Lee
[snipped]
: I just reread my last post and realized that I had mistakingly included Roland Lee's name at
: the top, so apologies to Roland. My replies have nothing to do with his insightful
: remarks.
You will DIE SLOWLY! Actually, no problemo ;-).
Jerry Love
> last time I checked, money spent is a pretty good denominator as to the
> percieved value of a good or service.
Percieved being the operative word.
Some things that make a lot of money:
psycics, drugs, gambling, prostitution (there is some value there huh?),
weapons, Facial creams, youth drugs, shark cartelage, rhino horns, Amway,
those gary powers videos, and diet after diet after diet... Oh yeah, daytime
television.
The history of capatilism in the 20th century is the move from buyers to
consumers. The methods of getting people to percieve value in things they
don't need.
Now I am not knocking or defending SCARS, it kinda rubs me the wrong way
("no one using my system has ever lost"... Well, so no two people using this
system have ever sparred/fought?) but I have never seen it (black belt
aside).
Nevertheless, your support for it's value is lacking.
> The fact that people consistantly
> spend this kind of money on his system, the types of his customer (navy
> seals, special forces..etc..) show that this system is VALUABLE!!
Wonder if the Navy seal call psycics (Nancy Regan did). How come the psycics
didn't see bankrupsy coming?
> people have been scammed before but wake up and smell the coffee...
> Have you ever tried to bid on a government contract? No, didn't think
> so. It is EXTREMELY competitive. Short of it is that your argument is a
> loser. Next comment.
Worked at several companies with government contracts. Some small enough I
saw some of the bidding system. My school has done seminars for the local
SWAT teams (government).
> Let's try some math for you. Not only has blackbelt been around a long
> time because of it's avertisement costs, but also because of the content
> of their magazine. You don't think it's a good magazine that's ok.
> There are others who would differ from your opinion. Probably not on
> this forum though because people are having too much fun trying to poke
> holes in everything I say! :)
Again you confuse popular with true. WWF is popular. That doesn't make it
true. Personally, I have quite a few BB. I find that when someone writes
something of description, I can come to my own conclusions. I think it has
had some good articles and some poor ones.
Jerry
Jerry Love
> I too believe that the SCARS system is pretty much the festival of hype,
but
> please don't fall prey to the same questionable sourcing that our original
> poster did. The website that link goes to simply sells a competing
product.
> Please note that it is :
> 'http://www.navysealteams.com/SCARS.htm'
> As opposed to a '.gov' website that might imply that it was an 'official'
navy
> seals site.
>
> Just a point of info.
As I pointer out in an earlier post, this site is advertising a competing
product to SCARS. Weather their claim is accurate or not, they are not the
navy and have reason to bad-mouth SCARS.
Jerry
d...@wingchun.com
: Hello,
: I am looking to start a thread on the SCARS self defense system.
So you have started one, why so defensive when folks give negative opinions
on it?
: What do people think of it?
Some folks swear by it.
Others are not impressed at all.
Others consider it to be a variation on Jimmy Woo's San Soo Kung Fu, and
one that does not have the depth of that particular art.
: So far, I have found it to be very different from
: most martial arts. It is not flashy and looks very effective. I am
: pretty confident that if I do need to use it I will get the job done
: quickly, efficiently and with little or no damage. If I do get hurt,
: the person I fought will be in tougher shape than I will be...that's for
: sure!
Good for you. It generally is important that the art you train in is
one you personally enjoy doing.
:Any users of this system, please post here with your comments!
I have the precursor to the SCARS tapes, namely the HCS tapes.
I was introduced to SCARS by a friend of mine who was a SEAL Team
member. I also had an opportunity to see some other private video
stuff of Jerry working out with my buddie's SEAL team.
I also have a copy of the SCARS manual, which was given to the BUDS
class members. And of course the "civilian" HCS version.
I also had the opportunity to observe a local San Soo Instructor.
In the end I chose another art. I think that SCARS is being oversold
based on its use for a short period of time as an introductory class
during BUDS training. It is not the "official" martial art of the SEALS
etc. And the SEAL's are known for their ability to get into someplace
quietly take out people with knives or supressed HK's and blow things up.
Not for their Martial Arts. They do well with these items because they are
in excellent physical shape and spend a lot of time training and staying
on the edge.
I think you'll find that while SCARS was indeed taught for a while to BUDS
(which is to folks who are NOT yet SEALS), it is no longer part of the
course material. Individual teams may have on occasion had Jerry in to
train with them, but that was not as part of some Navy contract. You'll
find that the SEALS have had MANY Martial Artists in to do the same thing.
Folks like Paul Vunak for JKD and Duncan Leung for Wing Chun.
If you have $5000 to blow I'd say go get some private lessons with
Rickson Gracie in LA or Chen XiaoWang in Australia. You'll get more
course time and skill for your money.
Any Martial training is going to involve long term training and personal
direct interaction with your teacher. If you are looking for a shortcut
invest in a firearm and get a pertit to carry concealed. Nuff said.
regards,
--
David Williams mailto:d...@wingchun.com
Planet Wing Chun http://www.wingchun.com/
Bay Area Wing Chun Association http://www.thesphere.com/SJWC
p...@mail.utexas.edu
wrote:
>
>Wonder if the Navy seal call psycics (Nancy Regan did). How come the psycics
>didn't see bankrupsy coming?
Here's a number you should call: 1-800-ABCDEFG - Hooked on
Phonics.
angrys...@my-deja.com
on...so shall I! :)
> Shows me what you know. Look, moron, I *published* for Black Belt.
> I knew the editors back in the early 80s fairly well, so have some
>idea of what's typical. You? Please state your experience with Black
Belt in the blank below:
I read blackbelt from time to time. And you published for
blackbelt...wow...I'm so impressed! So you are saying that blackbelt is
irreputable? Well, that gives me an idea of your character since you
just said you published for them. Thank you! :>
> > Why don't you go on down to Jerry's camp and write your own review
>>if you think they are incompetant. He might even let you in for free
>>if you tell him how good you are! :)
>
> I think it sucks, so why would I want to pay money to go see him?
OK. And you would know the system sucks because why? Let me guess. You
spared with someone who took the SCARS system and you kicked hit butt
too, right? Maybe he wasn't that good? Maybe he let you win because
you've got such a fragile ego and he didn't want to hurt your feelings?
:>
>Duh.Tell you what. *You* are a convert, so why don't you make an
>attempt to spar with me? If you're better than I am, you can brag
>online about SCARS right here :-).
Ohhh...did I get you all riled up and ready to fight? Did I say that I
was better than you are? If you looked at the first post, you can see
I'm just starting to get into the system and wanted to talk with people
who used it. But actually, if I could swing it I would fly you to the
camp myself and go with you. I would really enjoy watching you "spar"
with an instructor so you can show him how great you are. And if you
won (which I sincerely doubt), I would write my own review here telling
everyone how mean and bad you really are! :>
> What if it's simply that people learning SCARS haven't been exposed to
>much in the way of technique? You're a genuis, buddy.
I'm not a genius, but I do have some common sense. Some people check
into many different martial arts or self defense programs before
choosing one, while others pick the first one they see. You have no
evidence that people who chose SCARS did or did not check out other
techniques before picking a system.
>
>
> Ya know, much as I love these kinds of posts, I'm tired of taking
flack from morons. I think it's time for a break from RMA. Like Arnold
says in Terminator II, I need a vacation.
>
Yes, and I'm getting tired of this too. I'm giving up posting on this
topic now because of either personal attacks on me from people like you
or just bashing on the SCARS system. Some people did give good feedback
and impartial opinions but most of it was just bashing. My time would
be better off practicing anyway. Bye!
James Connor
relatively impartial information and presents them as his "proof" of why
SCARS (or any other system for that matter) is the best. Roland is right.
And YOU, you blathering parrot, YOU need to practice it so YOU can tell us
why YOU think it's so wonderful. Hasn't the training methodology by itself
got you wondering? People MUST take for granted that the techniques will
work. Most of them are too painful, too dangerous and too effective to
practice for real on a repeated basis. (So we hear...) At least in my Kali
and Silat practice, I've got a good idea of WHY things will work because
they've all been done TO me. Not possible to any great degree with SCARS
except maybe throws and takedowns.
BRAWK!
Jim
cqc
JimS wrote in message <7tfolj$e...@tali.UCHSC.edu>...
>In article <7teous$6em$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, angrys...@my-deja.com says...
>>
>>In article <7tatv5$i7m$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net>,
>> "James Connor" <joco...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>First, the only rude person that has posted on this thread is you.
>>realize that Jerry Peterson did look at many different martial arts and
>>took what he felt was usefull and incorporated it into his system.
>
your
expertise
>Jerry Peterson has in martial arts, for one thing.
### Yes, but to add something - Peterson markets a system based on its
effectiveness for FIGHTING, not fitness, discipline or anything else. So
surely for anyone purchasing the videos or (God forbid) paying $5000 to
train with the guy - the really pertinent question would be "What prior
experience does Jerry Peterson have in REAL combat ?"
They should also ask this question of others such as Paul Vunak & Tony
Blauer who have made fortunes marketing instruction for real combat.
I seems amazing to me that just because someone SAYS their stuff works on
the street, people believe it - they don't question it.
I wouldn't personally take instruction on fighting from anyone who hadn't
actually fought - & fought a lot, just as I wouldn't take flying lessons
from someone who'd never been in a plane.
Simon.
Jerry Love
> the street, people believe it - they don't question it.
> I wouldn't personally take instruction on fighting from anyone who hadn't
> actually fought - & fought a lot, just as I wouldn't take flying lessons
> from someone who'd never been in a plane.
Howard Stern talks about people that declare themselves something and sure
enough, a year later, everyone else calls them that and believes it.
He tested his theory one year by declaring himself "king of all media".
It worked.
There is the theory of proof by repeated assertion. If enough people tell
you something enough times, you start to believe it, wether it is true or
not.
Jerry Love
Chas
> I seems amazing to me that just because someone SAYS their stuff works on
> the street, people believe it - they don't question it.
> I wouldn't personally take instruction on fighting from anyone who hadn't
> actually fought - & fought a lot, just as I wouldn't take flying lessons
> from someone who'd never been in a plane.
The other thing that is funny is that the same sorts of guys will tell
you all about 'avoidance', then they say that the reason that their
stuff is so good is all the fights they've avoided with it.
The same people will look at a fighter, a guy that went and did, rather
than stay and practice, and belittle him as a thug and a ruffian
_regardless_ of his reasons or circumstances.
There was a guy, a very athletic and photogenic young man, that was
presenting an 'unblockable punch'- he was assuming parity with this fine
elder teacher and puffing the punch when he made the mistake of putting
it on this old man to 'block' it.
He stepped forward a little and raised his hands and threw his punch;
the old guy broke the punch and laid him out. Our hero asked why the old
guy hit him so hard- the reply was; 'you would have hit me'- the
difference was that always before, the young guy had been dealing with
the 'reservation of demonstration' and the old guy had been a pug for
decades.
There sure are a lot of "3rd generation since we had a fight in the
system" teachers now- I guess that it is to be expected, but I didn't
see it coming at all.
Chas
cqc
Chas wrote in message <37FFD246...@home.com>...
>cqc wrote:
>> I seems amazing to me that just because someone SAYS their stuff works on
>> the street, people believe it - they don't question it.
>> I wouldn't personally take instruction on fighting from anyone who hadn't
>> actually fought - & fought a lot, just as I wouldn't take flying lessons
>> from someone who'd never been in a plane.
>
>The other thing that is funny is that the same sorts of guys will tell
>you all about 'avoidance', then they say that the reason that their
>stuff is so good is all the fights they've avoided with it.
### It's also worth noting that avoidance is only an _option _if you can
also fight.
If you can't fight then you either avoid or get bashed !
>The same people will look at a fighter, a guy that went and did, rather
>than stay and practice, and belittle him as a thug and a ruffian
>_regardless_ of his reasons or circumstances.
### Yeah - they don't recognise that although avoidance is the best thing,
some idiots _refuse _to be avoided, no matter how hard you try.
They don't recognise it because they haven't experienced it.