How to improve one's guard?
Paul Wary
opponent tries to sit or stand up to strike. Although striking from
inside someone's guard is far from being as effective as striking from
the mount it can still hurt you a lot, IMO at least.
I do my best to pull him down close to me to avoid his strikes or at
least minimize their effectivness and then try to go for a sweep.
But this isn't always as easy - especially if I am exhausted.
So my questions are:
* What are some methods to improve one's guard?
* What is/are the best grip(s) to keep someone down in one's guard?
Waist grip (double underhooks)? Double overhooks? Triceps + neck grip?
* What is the BEST thing to do when someone sits or stands up in your
guard to strike you?
Paul
Gichoke
>
>One of my problem in the guard with striking being allowed is that my
>opponent tries to sit or stand up to strike.
Think about leglacing them for a kneebar or heelhook.
Heres another tip.
One good way to tell a decent guard from an excellent one is see if the bottom
guy sits up.
When someone gets his posture in your guard he has room to strike, you must
have sensitivety to know when to suck him in, and when that isnt possible.When
it isnt possible open your guard, sit up sliding your ass away from him.Now you
are face to face and he has to pin you back down to strike, as he pushes you
you have sweep and sub options.
>* What are some methods to improve one's guard?
Thats pretty general.I will give you one thing I use.Kids.Get a kid (in my case
usually my 9 year old neice) and play pass the guard.Interlock your fingers
behind your head and only use open guard.Kids usually stand and try to run
around your legs.It gave me much more mobility.
> What is/are the best grip(s) to keep someone down in one's guard?
>Waist grip (double underhooks)?
That is good if you have a butterfly guard, it leads to easy sweeps.
>Double overhooks?
Im not a big fan of this.It creates stalling and a stalemate.
>Triceps + neck grip?
Not that great with strikes.
I prefer this one.I get an under hook with my left arm.I reach WAY deep and
grab his left trap muscle.I slide to my left.Now he must palm my head (right
arm) to avoid my getting back or a sweep.I keep my head to the left of his head
so his left hand cant hit me.Now my right hand hits his face.My If my right
foot find his hip I keep pumping my leg and sprawling him.
Heres my other favorite.
I get my left foot on hip.Now my right leg goes horizontaly across his upper
back, as if I wanna armbar his right arm.but I dont spin out.My left hand
reaches over his right shoulder and grabs my right ankle.My left forearm is now
against his right collar bone.He now is blocked from punching with his right
hand, and HE IS BEING KEPT LOW, SO HIS LEFT HAND IS INNEFFECTIVE.I keep my left
foot on his hip and keep driving him down, so his face is in my sternum.My
right hand can now slap him silly.
He will soon look to stand and shake me off, which is when I underhook his leg
and sweep or leglock.
>* What is the BEST thing to do when someone sits or stands up in your
>guard to strike you?
Sits.If he tripods grab his leg (not too deep of he may trap your hand and ko
you..see uno-iha) if he is on his knees come up after him, leave and hand
behind you, extend the arm and turn him over (sweep), if he doesnt waana go he
will push you back down and youll tie him up.
BUT DO NOT KEEP CLOSED GUARD ON A MAN WITH HIS POSTURE!
If he stands.There are many good sweeps, but I like to either leglace through
the middle then around, or drop my cavle flat behind his achillies and sit into
him tripping him.
Gi (or stomp kick him)
GOU RONIN®
with a guy who outweighs you by at least 60 lbs and you can only use
technique, no punches or strikes? Judo rules only. Ideas?
GOU RONIN® - The Unforgiven...
ICQ# - 49024165
AOL IM - GouRonin
mIRC - #americankenpo - On Dal.net
http://members.tripod.com/~kenpo_ronin/houseofronin.html
Paul Wary
as I can.
Chaplain-X
Paul Wary <paul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:l61hausat8rmcvmtr...@4ax.com...
I wouldn't pull him down because then he can wedge his wrist into the back
of your elbow and sit up into an armlock, the harder you pull down on his
head the more it locks you into this situation without hope of escape. The
smarter thing to do is to elevate your torso up to him or to set your
forearm on his thigh and reverse into a kneelock, provided that you can't
scissor sweep or half bridge to reversal. The kneelock gives him your back
but if you do it right he's not likely to argue with you much physically
about whos got who.
X
'Vejita' S. Cousin
Paul Wary <paul_wa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>One of my problem in the guard with striking being allowed is that my
>opponent tries to sit or stand up to strike. Although striking from
>inside someone's guard is far from being as effective as striking from
>the mount it can still hurt you a lot, IMO at least.
>I do my best to pull him down close to me to avoid his strikes or at
>least minimize their effectivness and then try to go for a sweep.
>But this isn't always as easy - especially if I am exhausted.
One basic form of posture is bring your hands together (sort of like
you're praying) then bring them up between your opp's arms and wrap them.
Keep your elbows tight to your side/rib cage.
If you only get one arm, make sure you really have it trapped and push
your opp away from you with your hips.
Try to trap his free arm with your shin and hand. So you grap his
wrist and push your shin (have to open guard) into his bicep and
hold/control him.
Not sure if any of this makes sense as I write it :) Fairly easy to
show, but kind of hard to type out, sorry...
Jim Clayman
> >Waist grip (double underhooks)?
>
> That is good if you have a butterfly guard, it leads to easy sweeps.
You go for an elevator sweep or the superman one (both legs on his
hips and pull him)
> >Double overhooks?
>
> Im not a big fan of this.It creates stalling and a stalemate.
>
> >Triceps + neck grip?
>
> Not that great with strikes.
> I prefer this one.I get an under hook with my left arm.I reach WAY deep and
> grab his left trap muscle.I slide to my left.
This sounds good, but I find it hard to alawys get my head under his
left arm.
And adding on to this, no strikes, what is the best sweep to do. I
usually just go for an elevator witht he tricep + neck grip.
I am working on the flower, but am not great with it yet...what do you
usually go for? I like the elevator, but if i get predictable with it
I get my guard passed when i insert a leg hook.
Also, whats your favorite guard pass when the person is on one knee
(other leg up)?
tiger class
Grappler240
open, or hook inside his thighs and play butterfly or situp guard. Judo guys
are generally clueless about situp guard, and if you don't know specifically
how to pass, you pretty much can't. Also, many subs and sweeps from here.
I know several good open guard drills if you want to practice it.
later,
G240
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---------------------------------------------
"You can carve it on a bowling pin and cram it,for all I care."
-Gichoke
Gichoke
>
> Gi, any suggestions regarding being on the bottom of the guard
>with a guy who outweighs you by at least 60 lbs and you can only use
>technique, no punches or strikes? Judo rules only. Ideas?
What am I the friggin answer man?
Yeah.
Armbar him!
Jeez, that was easy.
Give me a tough one.
But seriously, use open guard, not closed.
Feet on hips, one hand inside collar, other on sleeve,feet push him away.
Dont let him keep his weight on you, and once you get him back, sit up.
Get a foot inside his thigh, hooking it for a half butterfly guard.
Now you got tons of options, far more than him.
Gi
Gichoke
>> I prefer this one.I get an under hook with my left arm.I reach WAY deep and
>> grab his left trap muscle.I slide to my left.
>
>This sounds good, but I find it hard to alawys get my head under his
>left arm.
Don't.
Heres my trick.As I slide to the side he gets me in a kind of headlock.If he is
smart he doesnt wrao it too much, he just palms my head and keeps it pulled
into him, limiting my ability to get his back.
Now I sucker him.
SUPPOSE i AM OFF UNDER HIS RIGHT ARM A BIT.
I hold the position, he will want to pass to his left.Almost invariably he will
take his left hand and push on my right knee, trying to drive my leg down to
slide over.Because I am off to my left, I can now reach my left arm around his
back and get a good grip over his left forearm in a one on one.I keep it snug.
Now it is childs play to pull myself out on his back(with the asist of my right
foot pushing his left knee away).Or to triangle if I wanna get fancy.
I also find that if I can reach his arm I can easily sweep my just latching
onto his lat muscle, and bridging off my right foot and dragging him over my
left shoulder.
If you fake trying to yank your head out he will scoot toward his right, use
his scoot to start your sweep.
>
>And adding on to this, no strikes, what is the best sweep to do. I
>usually just go for an elevator witht he tricep + neck grip.
It is a good one... better for no strikes, as you say.
>
>I am working on the flower, but am not great with it yet...what do you
>usually go for?
With no strikes? I love to keep switching my hips from side to side masking my
sweeps as armbar attempts.
Grab under his thigh and pop him over as he lowers his head to avoid the
armbar.
>
>Also, whats your favorite guard pass when the person is on one knee
>(other leg up)?
When I have one knee up?
I stick an arm through.
I give you the triangle.
Yup.
Sounds crazy but 99 in a 100 times I drive right through it and get side.
Other than that I do only really two passes,
One where I come under both legs and drive his knees to his face, and one where
he defends that by keeping his legs together and I hug them, stand up, pulling
him into me and go to knee on chest.
Gi
GOU RONIN®
their crayola:
>But seriously, use open guard, not closed.
>Feet on hips, one hand inside collar, other on sleeve,feet push him away.
>Dont let him keep his weight on you, and once you get him back, sit up.
>Get a foot inside his thigh, hooking it for a half butterfly guard.
>Now you got tons of options, far more than him.
I have been using the open guard and it's ok, better than
using my feet to hook inside the groin to try and flip him. It's just
a lot of weight to be dealing with either way. I agree that when I
stay out further I get better results.
Like I said, my problem is these guys outweigh me by at least
60 lbs and are a lot stronger and usually power their way through. I
like to go for the choke but they are getting wise to that and I need
to stay on top of this.
Thanx.
and drain deez nuts
>
>>
>> Gi, any suggestions regarding being on the bottom of the guard
>>with a guy who outweighs you by at least 60 lbs and you can only use
>>technique, no punches or strikes? Judo rules only. Ideas?
Don't go to the bottom?
Trav
GOU RONIN®
nuts) scribbled with their crayola:
>Don't go to the bottom?
Love to avoid it. It's a weight and size issue.
Frank Benn
> One of my problem in the guard with striking being allowed is that my
> opponent tries to sit or stand up to strike. Although striking from
> inside someone's guard is far from being as effective as striking from
> the mount it can still hurt you a lot, IMO at least.
> I do my best to pull him down close to me to avoid his strikes or at
> least minimize their effectivness and then try to go for a sweep.
> But this isn't always as easy - especially if I am exhausted.
>
> So my questions are:
> * What are some methods to improve one's guard?
The most direct way to improve your vale tudo guard is to (1) learn
specific positions as postures (with every detail) and then (2) connect
them. When one positions starts to erode, you go to the next one.
Be proactive. Change position, and don't hold on to the bitter end.
Also, in general you want to acquire a very active, ATTACKING guard,
rather than static and defensive. The more you go after, the more you
TAKE, the less he can work his offense. Always take with the guard, keep
the man busy.
>
> * What is/are the best grip(s) to keep someone down in one's guard?
For starters, head and overhook is a basic position to keep him down.
This works if your opponent is a novice inside the guard.
Beyond this, if your opponent is advanced you have a variety of positions.
1. High guard. Both of his arms are in, one of his shoulders is buried.
Cross his forearms and hold the top wrist in a cross grip. Now you have a
free hand with which to hit, and you are one step away from (a) a very
quick cross armlock, (b) a triangle if he pulls the "under" arm out of
your guard, rotating the other direction to finish, or (c) you are
actually *in* position for a cross armlock -- grab the "under" wrist,
squeeze your knees, and raise your hips. The elbow snaps, or your man
taps.
2. Closed guard grabbing ankle and wrist. Get a mid to high closed
guard. Now. Right arm over his left shoulder across his back, right hand
grabs your left shin near the ankle. Left arm reaches over and grabs your
right wrist. You can rest, and he has serious difficulty creating space.
3. Shin/ankle grip with knee blocking the shoulder. Left knee blocking
his shoulder, with foot on hip. Right leg (calf) behind his upper
back/neck area. Left hand reaches over his right shoulder and grabs your
left ankle. Hold it tightly. Squeeze your knees. Rotate your head to
the right. VERY important: Your right knee (as you squeeze) forces his
left shoulder forward. Now you can throw right elbows at will to the left
side of his head. You also have finish options against his left arm,
since your right knee is bringing that shoulder forward. If he reaches
his right arm in under your left leg - very common - you have a triangle.
Rotate opposite (left) direction to get your triangle -- always
controlling the head.
4. Double wrist at a distance. Very good position. Grab both of his
wrists, with your elbows rooted to the side of your ribs. Feet on hips.
Walk your shoulders away, extending his arms. It's your legs against his
arms. Keeping his hands down, left foot stays on his hip as your right
leg comes up and circles around the outside of his left arm. Now you can
heel kick him in the face, and he cannot change range or raise his arms to
defend. The only thing he can do is possibly duck his head, in which case
you kick downward with your heel on the top of his head. Lights out. Or,
as he ducks, you can come up quickly and hip heist out of the guard.
5. Gi also gave a good position which I like to use (props to gi),
especially if you have a long reach and a strong grip -- Reaching under
his arm and grabbing his opposite trapezius. Depending on arm length, you
might also get a lat grip, or even reach through and get his wrist. You
are now assured of getting his back -- and he can't hit you. If he tries
to, he's giving you space to slip around. Always think hips first when
slipping to his back. A specialty of mine I call the side door.
Good way to get his wrist is to feed the wrist to your grip with your
other hand. Sometimes you have a closed guard and he is pushing down on
your knee while your hips are out to the other side. This is the perfect
time to get his wrist. For example, when his right hand pushes down on
your left knee -- your hips are out to the right -- grab that wrist with
your left hand, squeeze your knees together, reach under his arm and
around his back with your right hand and get your grip on his right
wrist. Now, not only can you get his back, but he cannot hit you with the
only arm that has the distance, and there are also some interesting sweeps
(vale tudo nonetheless) which you can get. Hard to explain those.
There are many others, but these 5 are more than a good start. My advice
is to look especially closely at *what the positions lead to and set up*
rather than just the positions as ends in themselves.
>
> Waist grip (double underhooks)?
Double underhooks can work well if you use them toward other ends --
keeping him forward, feet inside, or while sitting up, etc. But by
itself, double underhooks are just an aspect of position which staves off
his arms' ability to start working the pass and opening up your guard.
Another good thing when working double underhooks -- even while sitting up
-- is to immediately work your way off to one side. Hips over, shrug his
arm up on your shoulder on that side. Some people you can bait to grab
your head (mistake), or even if he's smart you can sweep him as he
compensates for your lateral shift.
> Double overhooks?
Double overhooks can frustrate some people, although finishing options are
limited, and your arms are as occupied as his. Don't forget to use your
legs in concert with your arms, keeping him forward. If he sits up and
back, you can set up a nice elevator off of double overhooks with both
feet in, though. Come up to base and whizzer if it fails. Follow up to a
quarter nelson, and/or reverse half nelson, and you'll force him into a
roll, and he ends up under your side control on the opposite side.
> Triceps + neck grip?
Here is an interesting thing. Many people think triceps and neck grip,
and that's why he gets away. If you're using this position, instead of
grabbing the tricep, get a deep, deep overhook on that side -- all the way
up to the shoulder. That forearm is between your chest and his. Now he's
held down might more tightly, and the arm is better immobilized. Your
other elbow can also monitor and block his shoulder should he try to hit
you. Even in trying to compensate or escape and get his arm out or his
head up, you can catch some people in a quick armlock, triangle if the
free arm reaches under your leg, or sweep him -- elevator, scissor,
rocking chair, etc.
>
> * What is the BEST thing to do when someone sits or stands up in your
> guard to strike you?
If they sit up, follow them up. Don't give them the space they want. If
they lift you all the way up off the floor -- whether standing or kneeling
-- keep superior arm position, get on your feet, and take them down. Or
throw-by and get their back.
If they're already standing and at a distance, you also have outside
wrap-around open guard. E.g., left leg wraps around outside of his right
leg, top of left foot in against his inner thigh, right foot is flat
against his left inner thigh or hip (or knee to kick it out), right hand
holds his right wrist, palm down, and left hand holds his right heel. Now
he cannot put you in front of him to hit you -- until he solves the
wrap-around position. Here you also have sweep setups in all directions
-- particularly forward and back -- a triangle setup, and finishes against
the right leg.
At more of a distance, you'll want to fall back on standard vale tudo open
guard -- kicking him as he gets near, sitting up on one side, hip heist to
standing.
Also, don't rule out a quick foot-hook behind the knee to bring that side
near, and either set up a backward tripping sweep, a quick leg lace, or
even a knee bar sweep.
Frank Benn
IFA Academy
Austin, Texas
Frank Benn
Gichoke wrote:
>
> Heres my other favorite.
> I get my left foot on hip.Now my right leg goes horizontaly across his upper
> back, as if I wanna armbar his right arm.but I dont spin out.My left hand
> reaches over his right shoulder and grabs my right ankle.My left forearm is now
> against his right collar bone.He now is blocked from punching with his right
> hand, and HE IS BEING KEPT LOW, SO HIS LEFT HAND IS INNEFFECTIVE.I keep my left
> foot on his hip and keep driving him down, so his face is in my sternum.My
> right hand can now slap him silly.
Right. Moreover, if you bring your right knee forward -- squeezing your knees,
even -- this forces his left shoulder forward, turning him more. This not only
brings his head forward and down to give an ideal striking angle from the side (the
left side of his head), but also gives you a play on his left arm. I'll routinely
do this and end up with an underhooking entangled armlock. The right knee keeps
his shoulder forward and down, and you can even step the left leg past his head for
more control over him and isolation of the arm.
Gichoke
You mean as in an oma plata?
I think I will try squeezing my knees as you say tommorrow (three of us are
doing MMA in the next three weeks,so it is our focus right now) but I can
rarely get kimuras from guard I'll probably wind up going for the uma plata,
which oddly is higher % with me.
The sub I get most when people are stuck up as I describe is the triangle.
with my left foot into his hip and my left forearm against his collarbone guys
will often pull their right arm back, cocking it too far to punch, which allows
me to just swivel my left knee, only moving my lower leg up and over to get the
triangle.My right foot finds his left hip which gets me spinning out for the
sub.
I have a much easier time getting triangles with strikes allowed than in strait
sub grappling.
Gi
Paul Wary
Can you recommend any instructional video tapes that show some of the
moves/techniques you described? I think I got them by your
descriptions but watching things still helps.
I have the Mario Sperry Vale Tudo Tape Series 1 and although the tapes
are great there's not so much regarding the guard.
Frank Benn
>
> You mean as in an oma plata?
With that shoulder coming forward, you can get it. Although I usually don't go for
the uma plata. Rather, I'll usually get the underhooking entangled armlock from
the original guard position, or while stepping the left leg past his head to
squeeze the knees on the shoulder and keep his head down.
To get the entangled armlock on the near arm I'll underhook the left arm with my
right, then right hand on my left bicep, left hand pulls the wrist, as the left leg
steps past the head over the left shoulder with calf behind the neck, isolating the
arm, squeezing, etc.
Or I'll get the triangle pretty routinely, rotating to the opposite side, etc.
In some cases I'll get the entangled armlock with the legs in place, not stepping
the left leg past the head -- left foot stays on right hip, right leg high across
the back/neck. Once that left shoulder comes forward, his arm starts to rotate --
it's initially covered by my right elbow, down near my hip before I underhook it.
I like the underhooking entangled because it is the twist of your torso that gives
you leverage against his shoulder. Very solid. I've caught some very strong
grapplers and fighters with it -- people who would never have fallen for a standard
kimura.
There's also a bicep crush there if he tries to pull his left hand out while
leaving his elbow inside your legs -- I'm sure you know the one -- left arm
inserted into the crook of his left elbow, rotate a little further right, right
foot behind left knee in front of/beside his face.
>
> I think I will try squeezing my knees as you say tommorrow (three of us are
> doing MMA in the next three weeks,so it is our focus right now)
It's a very good way to get that left arm, and it will also help you keep a tight
position. Once that left shoulder comes forward, that arm is asking for a shoulder
lock.
> but I can
> rarely get kimuras from guard I'll probably wind up going for the uma plata,
> which oddly is higher % with me.
Standard kimuras -- i.e. right hand to his left wrist -- I rarely get on anyone
who is very skilled. The grip for a kimura is actually weak in the direction you
often need to extract it -- anyone who is good just buries the hand and arm -- plus
skilled opponents never put their hand where you'd need it to set it up.
For instance, what's the qualifier for a standard kimura? Opponent puts his
hand(s) on the floor -- sometimes side of the hip. But with the underhooking
entangled, you can set it up on an opponent who puts his hand on your belly or your
belt/waist area. In other words, you're getting the arm as he's doing the *right*
thing. Even if his arm is sort of straight, rotate your head a little to that side
and tilt your guard a little. Now you've got the angle to insert the underhook.
Rotate further as you're hooking the arm.
The underhooking variation is a solid staple of mine -- I'll get it on anybody on a
given day, and again the bonus is that you can set it up off of the opponent who
knows where to place his hands while in your guard. Sometimes you'll even get the
finish without grabbing the wrist at the end. Your hips come out, and you just go
palm to palm and torque it as your hands come toward your chest and your right
elbow wings out -- i.e. right arm underhooking his left, right palm facing out,
left palm facing back at you. Elbows to your body, left leg over his head, squeeze
the knees, rotate upper torso to the left.
The other benefit is that he cannot hide his hand inside his leg or grab on to
block your progress as in the standard kimura. Even if he tries to, once you join
your hands your underhook can extract it with probably 4 times the strength in the
necessary direction compared to the standard kimura, which is a weak grip in that
direction. Just underhook that arm, and as your hips scoot out and turn your
shoulders out pops the hand/wrist.
There's also a very good step-across armlock follow-up when he turns his arm in,
which I've not seen anyone else do.
>
> The sub I get most when people are stuck up as I describe is the triangle.
> with my left foot into his hip and my left forearm against his collarbone guys
> will often pull their right arm back, cocking it too far to punch, which allows
> me to just swivel my left knee, only moving my lower leg up and over to get the
> triangle.
> My right foot finds his left hip which gets me spinning out for the
> sub.
Exactly. Great setup. Expecially if you're quick to switch the legs. Usually
I'll close it up before I've fully rotated -- since it's in the opposite direction,
and my legs are long -- and then cinch it as I rotate left. As long as you hold
onto that head and keep it down, there's ample time to rotate.
If I lose the head, there's also a good entangled armlock on his *right* arm -- the
one that is *outside* of my triangle -- as you rotate in that direction, as well as
te kimura bridge and roll if he passes over your left knee, and a semi-inverted
cross armlock if you turn on your left side and step your right leg all the way
over and insert it under his right armpit, further and further in. That one comes
up now and then.
> I have a much easier time getting triangles with strikes allowed than in strait
> sub grappling.
> Gi
Funny you mention that; I've noticed the very thing over the years. In my case, it
has to do with the tendency in vale tudo of the opponent's head to change levels
more and move forward. In a submission-only match, if the guy is good he'll tend
to hold his head at a more deliberate height and range, and he'll keep your hips
down, always working his way up and/or slipping back and away. Going for a
triangle in that case is just asking to be passed.
As far as working the triangle in vale tudo, sometimes I'll spontaneously grab the
head and arm and lock it in before they can counter or pull out. Very quick. Hips
shoot upward and the legs fold in place. In the first half second, I've got most
of the triangle in, and the rest is just tightening it up -- his movement will even
help to cinch it in. There's a drill I have the guys do in vale tudo class which
is just that -- a quick draw triangle. It starts with a head and arm grip at
roughly arms' length -- e.g. his right arm and head -- while you're lying on your
left side with your hips out to the right, left foot on his hip. The right leg is
the one with "play". You're half a second away from a completed triangle -- many
people CANNOT stop the right leg from coming up over the left shoulder and locking
in before they can do anything about it -- and often the opponent only realizes
this after he's caught in it.
You can also work the cross armlock similarly -- simplify it to two steps, then one
step, and do quick and clean repetitions.