Master Khalid Khan Serrada
MAllen5904
First of all, I like to thank Master Khalid Khan for the privilege to view his
training tape. I am very honored to be
one of the few to be selected. For those that don’t know, Master Khalid Khan is
one of only sixteen people to be certified a
Master of Cabales Serrada Escrima, under the late Angel Cabales.
I viewed the tape twice and loved every aspect of it. I feel as though I was
transported back into time to Angel’s
younger days teaching his students this art. If you freeze/ hit pause on any
frame of a given technique, you’ll find it
to be flawless in its form and delivery in comparison to the same technique
demonstrated by AC in one of his
photos. How could a student honor his teacher more than to continue the art in
such an exact / unadulterated
manner, passing it on to generations to come in a true unaltered style with its
unique beauty and innocence/purity.
I applaud Master Khalid Khan for this. For those that had problems with the
language, I found that he had better
command of English than my own ability to speak any foreign language. After
taking Spanish for two years in
High School, I can honestly say I can say one verse fluently
in that language which is “ I don’t understand Spanish “ or “ I no comprenda
Espanol. “ For those that had a
problem with the quality of the recording, I found that it wasn’t all that bad.
What it lack, in comparison to
Panther Production material, it made up in material covered. Here you have a
two hour video with everything you
need to be a basic instructor in Serrada Escrima: once you mastered these
basics showned, of course. In contrast, If Master
Khalid Khan had gone the other route, instead of this $40.00 tape you would
have four tapes for $40.00 each with
the same material with added BS:
Tapes # 1 Khalid Khan’s “12 Angels of Attack and
Defenses”
# 2 Khalid Khan’s “ The Flow and Counter/
Counter Drills”
# 3 Khalid Khan’s “ Trapping “
# 4 Khalid Khan’s “ Empty Hand Defense”
Of course these could be subdevided to make more tapes = more money. Lets
teach him Capitalism at
its finest: Master Khalid Khan’s “ Street Fighting Series”
Tapes #1 “ Head Butts Knees and Elbows “
#2 “ Advance Knife Fighting”
#3 “ Advance Trapping “
#4 “ Islamic Ground Fighting”
But, to do this would really be a sin. As stated previously, he demonstrates
Escrima in its purity. To commercialize
it in the fashion I presented and the way some of our audience would like, is
the same as sending your baby you’ve
brought up in a very Christian environment and still believing in Santa to
his/her first day in public school to have him/her
come home telling you fart jokes at the dinner table knowing too well his/her
days believing in Santa are numbered.
I’m the first to agree there’s a price we must pay for education, but does it
have to happen in every aspect of our
lives. This video is like a new born baby that should be sheltered and
preserved. I feel very fortunate to have it. I
highly recommend it to those that don’t.
Sincerely,
Mallen
GLobo43787
In article <19980127225...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, malle...@aol.com
(MAllen5904) writes:
>I applaud Master Khalid Khan for this. For those that had problems with the
>language,
What it lack, in comparison to
Panther Production material, it made up in material covered
having posted earlier about this video i am compelled to post again following
Mallen's glowing and eloquent tribute to Master khalid. the language was the
ONLY real stumbling point that i had, with it, but it in no way affected my
ability to understand his demonstration of the techniques, which was, as mallen
states, truly exceptional. the material covered was unbelievable, and in depth
with clarity giving you the chance to realy learn from it.
i think Mallen didnt emphasise one thing enough:
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT TO THOSE WHO DONT HAVE IT.(Whattami saying then everyone
will get it.....quick backtrack Dont get it its not that good really).
YOU WONT FIND A BETTER MORE HONEST TAPE.
Glenn Lobo
martial arts
Quark
In article <19980127225...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, malle...@aol.com says...
[snipped because it's stupid]
> Of course these could be subdevided to make more tapes = more money. Lets
>teach him Capitalism at
>its finest: Master Khalid Khan’s “ Street Fighting Series”
>
> Tapes #1 “ Head Butts Knees and Elbows “
> #2 “ Advance Knife Fighting”
> #3 “ Advance Trapping “
> #4 “ Islamic Ground Fighting”
I'm interested in promoting capitalism and want the Islamic Ground Fighting
tape. I'm particularly interested in how to escape from the mount when it's time
to get up and pray in the direction of Mecca.
What if your opponent is an infidel who eats pork chops for dinner,and doesn't
want to release his hold?
>But, to do this would really be a sin. As stated previously, he demonstrates
>Escrima in its purity. To commercialize
>it in the fashion I presented and the way some of our audience would like, is
>the same as sending your baby you’ve
>brought up in a very Christian environment and still believing in Santa to
>his/her first day in public school to have him/her
>come home telling you fart jokes at the dinner table knowing too well his/her
>days believing in Santa are numbered.
>I’m the first to agree there’s a price we must pay for education, but does it
>have to happen in every aspect of our
>lives. This video is like a new born baby that should be sheltered and
>preserved. I feel very fortunate to have it. I
>highly recommend it to those that don’t.
I feel like you guys should shelter this new born babe just a little more
before offering it up for public desecration. We're not ready to appreciate
it yet. I know I'm not.
Q.
David Williams
Quark <Qu...@Nice.Guy.Pushed.Too.Far> wrote:
: In article <19980127225...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, malle...@aol.com says...
: [snipped because it's stupid]
: > Of course these could be subdevided to make more tapes = more money. Lets
: >teach him Capitalism at
: >its finest: Master Khalid Khan’s “ Street Fighting Series”
: >
: > Tapes #1 “ Head Butts Knees and Elbows “
: > #2 “ Advance Knife Fighting”
: > #3 “ Advance Trapping “
: > #4 “ Islamic Ground Fighting”
: I'm interested in promoting capitalism and want the Islamic Ground Fighting
: tape. I'm particularly interested in how to escape from the mount when it's time
: to get up and pray in the direction of Mecca.
: What if your opponent is an infidel who eats pork chops for dinner,and doesn't
: want to release his hold?
Geez Quark, this seems rather harsh even for you.
--
David Williams mailto:d...@wingchun.com
Planet Wing Chun http://www.wingchun.com/
Bay Area Wing Chun Association http://www.thesphere.com/SJWC
Chas
Quark wrote:
> I'm interested in promoting capitalism and want the Islamic Ground Fighting
> tape. I'm particularly interested in how to escape from the mount when it's time
> to get up and pray in the direction of Mecca.
> What if your opponent is an infidel who eats pork chops for dinner,and doesn't
> want to release his hold?
Twist it.
> I feel like you guys should shelter this new born babe just a little more
> before offering it up for public desecration. We're not ready to appreciate
> it yet. I know I'm not.
True.
>
> Q.
Just an observation, Q.- protect your anonymity- Those guys don't like
to be insulted and they *will* come hurt you.
Best of Luck,
Chas
Quark
In article <6aqheg$i...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, gryp...@worldnet.att.net says...
>> What if your opponent is an infidel who eats pork chops for dinner,and doesn't
>> want to release his hold?
>Twist it.
>
>> I feel like you guys should shelter this new born babe just a little more
>> before offering it up for public desecration. We're not ready to appreciate
>> it yet. I know I'm not.
>True.
>>
>> Q.
>Just an observation, Q.- protect your anonymity- Those guys don't like
>to be insulted and they *will* come hurt you.
>Best of Luck,
>Chas
Is zat right?
I think it needs to be said at this point, after at least two similar messages from
you guys, that if you carefully read the original post in question, it is
a tongue-in-cheek advertisement for a non-existant video, and my reply is
pretty much on a similar vein.
I'll also point out the original post could be interpreted as an "insult"
to Christians everywhere. Of course, I also have a sense of humor, so you
won't see me get on here and post a topic "Insulting Christians" and offer
veiled threats to the original poster. Say ouch, Chas. It's something you've
conveniently overlooked.
I also have several friends who are muslim, thank you very much. They also
have a sense of humor.
If anyone imagines an "insult" in this type of light-hearted banter, they
have a pretty shallow understanding of their religion in my book.
This is about all I care to say about it.
Q.
Chas
Quark wrote:
>
> In article <6aqheg$i...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, gryp...@worldnet.att.net says...
> >> What if your opponent is an infidel who eats pork chops for dinner,and doesn't
> >> want to release his hold?
> >Twist it.
Tell him a watermelon joke.
> >Just an observation, Q.- protect your anonymity- Those guys don't like
> >to be insulted and they *will* come hurt you.
> >Best of Luck,
> >Chas
Just a friendly 'heads up' buddy - no threats of any sort.
> Is zat right?
Yessir.
> I think it needs to be said at this point, after at least two similar messages from
> you guys, that if you carefully read the original post in question, it is
> a tongue-in-cheek advertisement for a non-existant video, and my reply is
> pretty much on a similar vein.
Well gosh; ouch, Quark. Hell of a sense of humour ya got there.
> I'll also point out the original post could be interpreted as an "insult"
> to Christians everywhere. Of course, I also have a sense of humor, so you
> won't see me get on here and post a topic "Insulting Christians" and offer
> veiled threats to the original poster. Say ouch, Chas. It's something you've
> conveniently overlooked.
Well gosh; ouch, Quark. I appreciate the forebearance.
> *I also have several friends who are muslim,* thank you very much. They also
> have a sense of humor.
Well hell, we'll all look back and laugh together twenty years from now.
> If anyone imagines an "insult" in this type of light-hearted banter, they
> have a pretty shallow understanding of their religion in my book.
Glad you pointed that out. Do the one about praying again.
> This is about all I care to say about it.
I'll give 7 to 5 that that is not true.
>
> Q.
c.
bill...@juno.com
On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:23:47 -0700, Chas <gryp...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
>Just an observation, Q.- protect your anonymity- Those guys don't like
>to be insulted and they *will* come hurt you.
>Best of Luck,
>Chas
Arabs react offensivly, rather defensivly to verbal slurs.
"When Chinese martial arts were imported to Japan, kicking and
punching became Karate (The Dao of Barehand), wrestling became
the root of Judo (The Dao of Softness), and Qin Na built the
foundation of Jujitsu (The Dao of Soft Techniques). Later, the
combination of Judo and Jujitsu became today's Aikido (The Dao of
Harmonizing Qi)." Dr. yang wing-ming
Kung fu and groundfighting:
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/4098/ground.html
bill...@juno.com
On 29 Jan 1998 19:40:06 GMT, Qu...@Nice.Guy.Pushed.Too.Far (Quark)
wrote:
>In article <6aqheg$i...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, gryp...@worldnet.att.net says...
>>> What if your opponent is an infidel who eats pork chops for dinner,and doesn't
>>> want to release his hold?
>>Twist it.
>>
>>> I feel like you guys should shelter this new born babe just a little more
>>> before offering it up for public desecration. We're not ready to appreciate
>>> it yet. I know I'm not.
>>True.
>>>
>>> Q.
>>Just an observation, Q.- protect your anonymity- Those guys don't like
>>to be insulted and they *will* come hurt you.
>>Best of Luck,
>>Chas
>
>Is zat right?
>I think it needs to be said at this point, after at least two similar messages from
>you guys, that if you carefully read the original post in question, it is
>a tongue-in-cheek advertisement for a non-existant video, and my reply is
>pretty much on a similar vein.
>I'll also point out the original post could be interpreted as an "insult"
>to Christians everywhere. Of course, I also have a sense of humor, so you
Christans are the last people in the world to develop thin skin.
Taking into consideration the atrocitys commited by them througout
history.
>won't see me get on here and post a topic "Insulting Christians" and offer
>veiled threats to the original poster. Say ouch, Chas. It's something you've
>conveniently overlooked.
Who cares about christianity? Or christ for that matter? Who cares
about jesus? And all the lies? Insult a arab, and you might get your
throught slit. Its just a fact of life.
>I also have several friends who are muslim, thank you very much. They also
>have a sense of humor.
>If anyone imagines an "insult" in this type of light-hearted banter, they
>have a pretty shallow understanding of their religion in my book.
>This is about all I care to say about it.
>
>Q.
You have a shallow understanding of arab psychology. What you dont
think to be insulting, may be offensive to another. Just another
arrogant asshole who has no concept of another cultures values or ways
of thinking. And you then try and impress us with the oh so classic
"I have (enter ethinic/religious/racial group) friends".
Please tell me your not white.
kung fool
Since we are now into insulting each others religious beliefs, I can
finally tell my infamous Mormon joke....updated to be on the NG topic...
why do 95% of all Mormon fights end up on the ground?
if they stand and fight, people might think they are dancing.....
Quark <Qu...@Nice.Guy.Pushed.Too.Far> wrote in article
<6aqlum$k...@tali.UCHSC.edu>...
> won't see me get on here and post a topic "Insulting Christians" and
offer
> veiled threats to the original poster. Say ouch, Chas. It's something
you've
> conveniently overlooked.
loki gomez
This is crap.
He said Arabs, not Muslims.
MAllen5904
>Is zat right?
>I think it needs to be said at this point, after at least two similar
>messages from
>you guys, that if you carefully read the original post in question, it is
>a tongue-in-cheek advertisement for a non-existant video, and my reply is
>pretty much on a similar vein.
>I'll also point out the original post could be interpreted as an "insult"
>to Christians everywhere. Of course, I also have a sense of humor, so you
>won't see me get on here and post a topic "Insulting Christians" and offer
>veiled threats to the original poster. Say ouch, Chas. It's something you've
>conveniently overlooked.
>I also have several friends who are muslim, thank you very much. They also
>have a sense of humor.
>If anyone imagines an "insult" in this type of light-hearted banter, they
>have a pretty shallow understanding of their religion in my book.
>This is about all I care to say about it.
>
>Q.
Me:
I'm a Christain and how did I insult you ? This tape does exist
and it is excellent. Its Escrima and Silat at its best. It comes from
one of only 16 people certified as Masters of Escrima by AC. I'm
not a troll and been part of this ng for quite awhile so people
know the stuff I post is sincere, even though they don't always agree. Also,
Muslims do not have a sense of humor when someone commits a sacrilege. Good
Luck, you'll need it now.
Mallen
Chas
loki gomez wrote:
>
> This is crap.
> He said Arabs, not Muslims.
Loki?
Chas
GLobo43787
Quark
i think you gotta be a little careful- some people take offence real easy.
muslims in my town tried to burn down a bingo hall cos the owners used their
name in the front- MECCA. they are a long established company here. the
arguement was that it showed disrespect to their religion. i personally think
that is crap- knifing one of your own in a mosque does that more (they done
that too) .
chas does have a point, but the humour for us infidels is not lost. it might be
for them. we all have muslim friends- silat is a muslim derrived art- but they
fight for few things insult their religion is top of the list.
have a nice day.
Glenn
martial arts
Quark
In article <6ar71h$akt$1...@gte1.gte.net>, bill...@juno.com says...
>Christans are the last people in the world to develop thin skin.
>Taking into consideration the atrocitys commited by them througout
>history.
>Who cares about christianity? Or christ for that matter? Who cares
>about jesus? And all the lies? Insult a arab, and you might get your
>throught slit. Its just a fact of life.
DOH! The IQ just dropped 10 points. Amazing how that happens...
Gee, bill.jee, can we change your name to bill.sweeping-generalizations.jee?
And the Wing Chun form too?
>You have a shallow understanding of arab psychology. What you dont
>think to be insulting, may be offensive to another. Just another
>arrogant asshole who has no concept of another cultures values or ways
>of thinking. And you then try and impress us with the oh so classic
>"I have (enter ethinic/religious/racial group) friends".
Arrogant asshole? I may be, I always thought I was a veritable teddy bear
but I could be biased. Taking a look at the last few of your own posts, we've
had, let's see, Japan's non-contributions to martial arts, a religion you don't
agree with, and moronic statements about "arab psychology" all in a couple
days. I'd say we have just a bit of irony here.
I'm often in a quandry about RMA- it would be nice on one hand to always see
intelligent posts, well-researched topics and observations from people who
actually train instead of learning via osmosis from magazines and videos;
on the other hand, if we eliminate posts from all the has-beens, wonnabes,
and never-wills, the entertainment factor would be zilch. And I wouldn't be
here.
It's a true Catch-22 situation.
>Please tell me your not white.
Please tell me you can post a conversation that doesn't suck rocks.
If I was white, I'd have no skin pigment and be an albino.
Think of me kinda in the same vein as the Rev. Jesse Jackson's "Rainbow
Coalition"- even though it's pretty much useless to anyone not being black
to begin with, it's supposed to represent all the colors of the rainbow.
That's me- look at me as you RMA representative for a delicate kaleidoscope
of hues, a veritable palatte of the senses...
I know I do.
Regards and keep up that open mind,
Q.
Chas
kung fool wrote:
>
> Since we are now into insulting each others religious beliefs, I can
> finally tell my infamous Mormon joke....updated to be on the NG topic...
>
> why do 95% of all Mormon fights end up on the ground?
>
> if they stand and fight, people might think they are dancing.....
And here I thought the only things worth fighting over were money and
women.
Mormons are probably a little easier on you than muslims. Mormons
figure that you're just another gentile son of a bitch looking to burn
their houses down again. If you got in their face, it might cost you-
but not for saying something stupid on the internet.
Why don't you expand the thread to insulting three religions at a time?
That would approach an intellectual stimulation- these little weasel
(and frankly, well known) jokes don't get it.
Yer mama....
Chas
Jose M. Ruiz
What is this?
I thought this was a MARTIAL ARTS newsgroup, not a religious mud-slinging
contest.
**********************
* Jose Ruiz *
* Columbia College *
* Class of '99 *
**********************
Steve Godfrey
We are really stooping to new depths now. Although the jokes are funny do
you really believe they belong here.
find a new ng or learn a little respect. After all is that not what the MA
are about
Steve Godfrey
kung fool wrote in message <01bd2d04$ac9f92e0$f496...@cfarquhar.cnv.org>...
>Since we are now into insulting each others religious beliefs, I can
>finally tell my infamous Mormon joke....updated to be on the NG topic...
>
>why do 95% of all Mormon fights end up on the ground?
>
>if they stand and fight, people might think they are dancing.....
>
>
>
>
>
><6aqlum$k...@tali.UCHSC.edu>...
>> In article <6aqheg$i...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
>gryp...@worldnet.att.net says...
>> >> What if your opponent is an infidel who eats pork chops for dinner,and
>doesn't
>> >> want to release his hold?
>> >Twist it.
>> >
>> >> I feel like you guys should shelter this new born babe just a little
>more
>> >> before offering it up for public desecration. We're not ready to
>appreciate
>> >> it yet. I know I'm not.
>> >True.
>> >>
>> >> Q.
>> >Just an observation, Q.- protect your anonymity- Those guys don't like
>> >to be insulted and they *will* come hurt you.
>> >Best of Luck,
>> >Chas
>>
Chas
(not a comment on Mr. Godfreys' very reasonable post although I came in
under it.)
While I'm not sure that martial arts has anything to do with anybody
getting along together, I am sure that religious beliefs are an
immediate fight-provoker, and with some folks- a deadly insult.
As I am neither Muslim nor Mormon, although I have an intimate
relationship with both religions, I would rather step forward for the
idea that tolerance of a persons' spiritual beliefs is a basic respect
that we give one another when we are not face to face. To hide behind an
anonymous computer and insult a mans' religion in a sacreligious manner
is simply cowardly.
I have noticed in this newsgroup and in others that insulting
Christianity is acceptable and sort of chic. OK, I can live with that-
in my religion, what goes around comes around. Now it extends to
Muslims, Mormons and the more esoteric beliefs of shamanists and so on.
If it was about Buddhists or Shintoists or Taoists, the voices of
correctness would have howled long ago. If slurs like that are
unacceptable in polite society, they ought to be unacceptable here.
You guys want to insult a mans' religion, tap him on his shoulder and
say that shit.
Chas
Temujin
Chas wrote:
>
> (not a comment on Mr. Godfreys' very reasonable post although I came in
> under it.)
> While I'm not sure that martial arts has anything to do with anybody
> getting along together, I am sure that religious beliefs are an
> immediate fight-provoker, and with some folks- a deadly insult.
>
> Christianity is acceptable and sort of chic. OK, I can live with that-
> in my religion, what goes around comes around. Now it extends to
> Muslims, Mormons and the more esoteric beliefs of shamanists and so on.
> If it was about Buddhists or Shintoists or Taoists, the voices of
> correctness would have howled long ago. If slurs like that are
> unacceptable in polite society, they ought to be unacceptable here.
> You guys want to insult a mans' religion, tap him on his shoulder and
> say that shit.
> Chas
As someone who has family members who have converted to Islam, I can
give a very loud and strong second opinion in support of the comments
made by Chas as posted above. Hiding behind a computer is very easy,
safe and smug, not to mention cowardly.
Temujin
GLobo43787
i agree- i have recently come into contact with some Mormons- at last a church
that looks after it's people. incase you have forgotten- we as martial artists
should be setting an example to others, as as experienced martial artists we
have to denounce such crap. consider it denounced.
Glenn
martial arts
Wuweiwaza
>First of all, I like to thank Master Khalid Khan for the privilege to view
>his
>training tape. I am very honored to be
>one of the few to be selected. For those that don’t know, Master Khalid Khan
>is
>one of only sixteen people to be certified a
>Master of Cabales Serrada Escrima, under the late Angel Cabales.
> I viewed the tape twice and loved every aspect of it. I feel as though I
>was
>transported back into time to Angel’s
>younger days teaching his students this art. If you freeze/ hit pause on any
>frame of a given technique, you’ll find it
>to be flawless in its form and delivery in comparison to the same technique
>demonstrated by AC in one of his
>photos. How could a student honor his teacher more than to continue the art
>in
>such an exact / unadulterated
>manner, passing it on to generations to come in a true unaltered style with
>its
>unique beauty and innocence/purity.
>command of English than my own ability to speak any foreign language. After
>taking Spanish for two years in
>High School, I can honestly say I can say one verse fluently
>in that language which is “ I don’t understand Spanish “ or “ I no comprenda
>Espanol. “ For those that had a
>problem with the quality of the recording, I found that it wasn’t all that
>bad.
>two hour video with everything you
>need to be a basic instructor in Serrada Escrima: once you mastered these
>basics showned, of course. In contrast, If Master
>Khalid Khan had gone the other route, instead of this $40.00 tape you would
>have four tapes for $40.00 each with
>the same material with added BS:
>
> Tapes # 1 Khalid Khan’s “12 Angels of Attack and
>Defenses”
> # 2 Khalid Khan’s “ The Flow and
>Counter/
>Counter Drills”
> # 3 Khalid Khan’s “ Trapping “
> # 4 Khalid Khan’s “ Empty Hand Defense”
>
>teach him Capitalism at
>its finest: Master Khalid Khan’s “ Street Fighting Series”
>
> Tapes #1 “ Head Butts Knees and Elbows “
> #2 “ Advance Knife Fighting”
> #3 “ Advance Trapping “
> #4 “ Islamic Ground Fighting”
>
>Escrima in its purity. To commercialize
>it in the fashion I presented and the way some of our audience would like, is
>the same as sending your baby you’ve
>brought up in a very Christian environment and still believing in Santa to
>his/her first day in public school to have him/her
>come home telling you fart jokes at the dinner table knowing too well his/her
>days believing in Santa are numbered.
>I’m the first to agree there’s a price we must pay for education, but does it
>have to happen in every aspect of our
>lives. This video is like a new born baby that should be sheltered and
>preserved. I feel very fortunate to have it. I
>highly recommend it to those that don’t.
>
>
> Mallen
OK ! How do I get this tape ?
Saito
Quark
In article <6b0l33$6...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, gryp...@worldnet.att.net says...
>
>(not a comment on Mr. Godfreys' very reasonable post although I came in
>under it.)
>While I'm not sure that martial arts has anything to do with anybody
>getting along together, I am sure that religious beliefs are an
>immediate fight-provoker, and with some folks- a deadly insult.
>relationship with both religions, I would rather step forward for the
>idea that tolerance of a persons' spiritual beliefs is a basic respect
>that we give one another when we are not face to face. To hide behind an
>anonymous computer and insult a mans' religion in a sacreligious manner
>is simply cowardly.
heh
But when you to get on here, demonstrate your own short fuse
(always in reference to "them" as if you are a designated spokesperson),
make gross overgeneralizations (that could in themselves be taken as
insulting) and generally try to set down the conditions
for tolerance defined by you, all is good, eh?
The way I see it is, I'm just a poor victim of this entire situation.
Just an average joe named quark, swormed over by a vicious self-
righteous, threatening mob. A victim, I'm tellin ya.
Lucky I'm a tolerant kinda guy, and don't get on RMA and try to threaten
others, poor victim that I am in my own mind.
>You guys want to insult a mans' religion, tap him on his shoulder and
>say that shit.
Somebody whose main response is in knee-jerk fashion over anything isn't
very clued in in either religion or martial arts.
Someday, that person will learn not to be controlled so much by their
environment.
That day is not here.
Q. "not even close"
bill...@juno.com
I take my pet lion to church with me every sunday.
He's gotta eat....
Ray Terry
: OK ! How do I get this tape ?
For the best Serrada tapes...
The complete set (4) of videotapes on the Inayan System of Eskrima by
Suro Mike Inay.
The 4 tapes available are:
o Kadena de Mano (Chain of Hands)
o Sinawali
o Serrada 1
o Serrada 2
The quality of these tapes is extremely high. You will not be disappointed.
The 4 tape set is available for $160 + $10 S&H.
Or you may order an individual videotape for $50 + $5 S&H.
For more information contact Suro Inay on 1-408-223-2336. Or send mail to:
Suro Mike Inay
1711 Tustin Drive
San Jose, California
95122
USA
To order tapes, send a personal check made out to "Mike Inay" to the above
address.
In Europe, contact Abanico Video Productions, Selzer Str. 11, D-44269,
Dortmund, Germany (Phone [code Germany] 231/4948060, FAX 231/4948061)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inayan Kadena de Mano: a Filipino knife to knife, hand to hand, and hand to
knife style of Eskrima. Utilizing blocks, checks, traps, parries, elbow-checks,
elbow-parries, and strikes as well as lock-flow grappling drills.
ISBN 3-89540-642-2
Inayan Sinawali: a double stick style of training in the Filipino martial
arts. It uses different striking patterns to develop proficiency with double
weapons. Often noted for its fast stick weaving (hence the name Sinawali).
ISBN 3-89540-643-0
Inayan Serrada 1 & 2: a very fast close-quarter fighting style. It uses quick
block and counter-striking techniques as well as short fast parrying counters.
Often copied for its Flow Sparring drills, it is one of the most elegant and
efficient Eskrima styles.
ISBN 3-89540-640-6 (vol 1)
ISBN 3-89540-641-4 (vol 2)
GLobo43787
In article <19980202174...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, wuwe...@aol.com
(Wuweiwaza) writes:
>OK ! How do I get this tape ?
>
> Saito
>
contact him via email on:
mind...@cyber.net.pk
it really is worth it
Glenn
martial arts
Pete R.
Is this the same guy that tells people where their Death Spots are? I
forgot where mine was.
David Williams
Pete R. <mofojitsu@_xspamx_.hotmail.com> wrote:
: On 4 Feb 1998 00:17:50 GMT, globo...@aol.com (GLobo43787) wrote:
: Is this the same guy that tells people where their Death Spots are? I
: forgot where mine was.
Well Pete since you know Peng Jing, that means you are internalist,
therefore you Death Spot is on the inside! :)
GLobo43787
i have both the Inayan tapes and the one by Master Khalid and the latter
provides the best value by far. the inayan tapes are difficult to follow for a
novice, although the production is a far slicker affair.
you actually get more techniques for your money with Master Khalid's tape, and
it is easier to follow, and learn from. also compare the cost- $75 against $170
for the inayan tapes
Glenn
martial arts
Ray Terry
GLobo43787 (globo...@aol.com) wrote:
: i have both the Inayan tapes and the one by Master Khalid and the latter
$170 vs $75? Apples vs. oranges. You're talking about 2 Serrada tapes,
1 Kadena de Mano tape and 1 Sinawali tape. 4+ hours of instruction vs. 2 hours.
A second Kadena de Mano tape is also available, or will be shortly (as soon
as it is mass produced).
From what I've seen in the Serrada tapes on the market today, those by
Mike Inay are far and away the easiest to follow and learn from. And of
course the production quality is higher than the other. But each to his/her
own...
Ray
Pete R.
On 4 Feb 1998 03:07:45 GMT, David Williams
<wing...@shell5.ba.best.com> wrote:
>therefore you Death Spot is on the inside! :)
I would hope it's on the inside, otherwise I might bump it on a coffee
table or something. :O
MAllen5904
>GLobo43787 (globo...@aol.com) wrote:
>: i have both the Inayan tapes and the one by Master Khalid and the latter
>: provides the best value by far. the inayan tapes are difficult to follow
>for a
>: novice, although the production is a far slicker affair.
>: you actually get more techniques for your money with Master Khalid's tape,
>and
>: it is easier to follow, and learn from. also compare the cost- $75 against
>$170
Ray wrote:
>$170 vs $75? Apples vs. oranges. You're talking about 2 Serrada tapes,
>1 Kadena de Mano tape and 1 Sinawali tape. 4+ hours of instruction vs. 2
>hours.
>A second Kadena de Mano tape is also available, or will be shortly (as soon
>as it is mass produced).
>
>From what I've seen in the Serrada tapes on the market today, those by
>Mike Inay are far and away the easiest to follow and learn from. And of
>course the production quality is higher than the other. But each to his/her
>own...
>
>Ray
Me:
Ray those vidios by Mike Inay are very good. However, I think
its unfair and I can't understand how you can say they're the best without
checking out the vidio put out by Master Khalid Khan. I know you haven't seen
it because there is only about four in circulation in this country. I think
you're the greatest, I love the dijest, and I personally feel you owe it to
yourself to check this tape out. Afterwards, I'll have no problems with your
opinion of what you feel is the best tape. For the dollar, Master Khalid Khan
has enough techniques demonstrated to bring someone to a basic
instructor level once the techniques are perfected. Also, Master
Khalid is also one of only 16 people who are certified Masters
under AC. He knows his stuff.
Respectfully,
Mallen
Ray Terry
Pete R. (mofojitsu@_xspamx_.hotmail.com) wrote:
: Is this the same guy that tells people where their Death Spots are? I
: forgot where mine was.
Yes, this is the same Khalid.
I think, and hope, that Khalid would admit that he went off the deep deep end
a few years ago... suggesting that he could magically identify the "death
spots" of folks he'd never met, being able to channel ANY martial arts Master
(dead or alive) and perfectly reproduce their style of fighting, writing
posts on how to successfully rape women, etc.
I met and trained with Khalid prior to the above problems he encountered.
During that time he was a gentleman and a fair martial artist. He didn't
like even the slightest contact (even a slight touch) during training, which
made it impossible for me to continue to workout with him.
Ray
Chas
Filipino Malaysian martial arts is the 'preternatural'(?) kinds of
things they seem to be able to do. My teachers have done things in my
presence that I cannot explain in any 'scientific' way.
I wouldn't troll science guys (because I don't know any- science), but
there sure are some things that I don't know how to explain. I've had
them call me and talk about things that they could not know about,
predict disease and infirmity before it happens, divine the intention of
an attack, make their bodies feel 'different' than they did before,
change the expressed energy of their actions, all kinds of things that
other people don't do.
When a great number of people get together and think about something for
a long period of time- they come up with some really good stuff.
I don't know if the 'death point' guy is one of them, but I believe that
there are some people around who could do that for you.
Chas
Ingo Bojak
On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Chas wrote:
> One of the concepts that has continually amazed me about the Indonesian
> Filipino Malaysian martial arts is the 'preternatural'(?) kinds of
> things they seem to be able to do. My teachers have done things in my
> presence that I cannot explain in any 'scientific' way.
>
The problem is that these kind of things are seldomly presented to
scientists. If you can consistently repeat "super-natural" feats under
qualified scientific scrutiny, then science will have to deal with that.
If not, then you are either doing something which is "natural" after all
or you are fooling those that like to be fooled. Of the usual "magic" none
has survived lab tests thus far and skilled magicans can perform equally
well using their tricks. Anyway, if you claim that you can do something
that science can't explain, you have to give science a chance to test it.
Talk the talk, walk the walk.
Ciao,
Ingo
---
8th SG WingTsun, 2nd SG Latosa Escrima, Hatha Yoga (GGF)
# The intellect is like money - a good servant, but a bad master.
# (B.K.S. Iyengar)
Richard Lancashire
Ingo Bojak wrote:
> The problem is that these kind of things are seldomly presented to
> scientists. If you can consistently repeat "super-natural" feats under
> qualified scientific scrutiny, then science will have to deal with that.
> If not, then you are either doing something which is "natural" after all
> or you are fooling those that like to be fooled. Of the usual "magic" none
> has survived lab tests thus far and skilled magicans can perform equally
> well using their tricks. Anyway, if you claim that you can do something
> that science can't explain, you have to give science a chance to test it.
> Talk the talk, walk the walk.
But you yourself have admitted (and I don't know anyone who'd deny) that
science is driven by gut feelings - a scientist cuts an infinite amount
of hypotheses down to half a dozen and then a couple and then one
largely by having 'the right feeling' about things. The science is then
applied to the methodology of investigating these (unscientific) gut
feelings. Perhaps the people Chas knows have better 'gut feelings' than
most?
:oP
Rich
Bob Batchelar
I trained with Master Khalid Khan during the years of 1989 to 1994 or
thereabouts and I will cherish the experience for ever. He was always a
gentleman and an excellent instructor. I too noted that he always tried to
minimize body contact unless necessary. If he "went off the deep end" for a
while, I suspect it was more of a personal journey which I hope ended
successfully. If anyone sees him, tell him Bob Batchelar says hello.
Chas
Ingo Bojak wrote:
>
> On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Chas wrote:
> > presence that I cannot explain in any 'scientific' way.
> >
> scientists. If you can consistently repeat "super-natural" feats under
> qualified scientific scrutiny, then science will have to deal with that.
> If not, then you are either doing something which is "natural" after all
> or you are fooling those that like to be fooled. Of the usual "magic" none
> has survived lab tests thus far and skilled magicans can perform equally
> well using their tricks.
happened to me and around me with the scientific requirements. Happily,
that is not *my* major concern- I'm just trying to learn how to do it.
I don't know whether it is sciences' lack of something or whether I have
been gulled by charlatans- whatever it is, the trick impresses me.
>Anyway, if you claim that you can do something
> that science can't explain, you have to give science a chance to test it.
> Talk the talk, walk the walk.
Didn't make such a claim; if I could do it, I'm not sure that science
would be the first people I would tell- maybe Letterman. Also, I don't
know what science has come to explain and what is still unknown to them.
They change stuff all the time. Didn't science prove (at one time) that
at over 25 miles per hour that the breath would be sucked from your
lungs and you would die? Didn't science, at one time, say that it was
impossible to gain control over 'autonomic' systems in ones' body?
Science will catch up- after all- they are always behind the rest of us,
that's their job.
>
> Ciao,
> Ingo
> ---
> 8th SG WingTsun, 2nd SG Latosa Escrima, Hatha Yoga (GGF)
> # The intellect is like money - a good servant, but a bad master.
> # (B.K.S. Iyengar)
Chas
"Hang on tight, son. If you fall off, they'll stomp'ya."
Dionysius the Areopagite (attrib)
Chas
Richard Lancashire wrote:(snip science stuff)
Perhaps the people Chas knows have better 'gut feelings' than
> most?
>
> :oP
> Rich
Chs
Ingo Bojak
On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Richard Lancashire wrote:
> But you yourself have admitted (and I don't know anyone who'd deny) that
> science is driven by gut feelings
>
I have said that? Boy, if I meet the other half of my split personality, I
will kick his half of our ass... ;)
Seriously though, the "gut feeling" of a scientist is quite different from
the "gut feeling" of an esoteric freak. The "gut feeling" used in science
is what you get after working long and hard on certain tasks. It's like a
good car mechanic - he will spot the trouble in your car much faster than
if he "goes by the book", simply because he has "gone by the book" so
often that he knows what usually is the cause of the problem. And the gut
feeling has to survive the test of experiment. Otherwise it is worthless.
> - a scientist cuts an infinite amount
> of hypotheses down to half a dozen and then a couple and then one
> largely by having 'the right feeling' about things.
>
Nonsense. In truth the scientist comes up with a couple of hypotheses,
works out what they predict, tests them by experiment and re-iterates this
process until a hypothesis survives the experiment. The "right feeling"
just comes into play concerning which hypothesis is _tested_ _first_. The
"right feeling" has zero relevance if it doesn't fit observed facts.
> Perhaps the people Chas knows have better 'gut feelings' than most?
>
This is of course a possibility. Let them show up and have their abilities
tested. Or let them (or rather Chas) be quiet about them. In science each
and every claim has to be backed up. Actually unsupported claims cannot
even be made public in the science journals, because of the peer review
system.
Chas
Bob Batchelar wrote:
(snip)If he "went off the deep end" for a
> while, I suspect it was more of a personal journey which I hope ended
> successfully.
personal journey.
Many of the practices of the Filipino-Indonesian-Malaysian arts are very
dangerous to the sanity. Many practitioners cannot survive the
experience, even while attended by knowlegeable practice leaders.
Combat is a surreal experience. It is not like the real world- yet it
is real. Social machinery that has worked in all other circumstances
doesn't work in combat- other mechanisms muct be engendered. Combat does
it- but if you are not *in* combat, how do you start to formulate these
'mechanisms'? The exercise alone can kill you.
A number of the practitioners that I have known in my life have gone
stone crazy; schizophrenic breaks, hallucinations and visitations,
paranoid sudden-ness. It is just another hazard in a hazardous journey-
if one does not explore it, one misses the experience. It's like not
sparring or running from a confrontation.
Fuck, it didn't hurt *me-ee*.;>?
Chas
"Don't get a bear unless you can feed it and clean up the messes"
Master Po's mother (attrib)
Otter
Chas wrote:
>
> if I could do it, I'm not sure that science
> would be the first people I would tell- maybe Letterman.
Just don't call Jerry Springer.... ;)
> Also, I don't know what science has come to explain and what is
> still unknown to them. They change stuff all the time.
Actually, "they" don't change things all that often; a change is usually
a BIG one in science, a fundamental shift in philosophy.
> Didn't science prove (at one time) that
> at over 25 miles per hour that the breath would be sucked from your
> lungs and you would die? Didn't science, at one time, say that it was
> impossible to gain control over 'autonomic' systems in ones' body?
A belief is considered true until the means are available to prove (or
disprove) otherwise.
> Science will catch up- after all- they are always behind the rest of
> us, that's their job.
> Chas
You pegged it, Chas. Just because science can't *prove* something,
doesn't necessarily mean it automatically *disproves* it.
If the acts you've seen people performing were tricks, science could
disprove the claims; if the acts were real, a) science could explain it,
or b) the necessary tools/methods may not be available yet to explain
it.
-- Otter
"Scientists discover things that were already there; engineers invent
things that weren't there before."
Otter
Chas wrote:
>
> Many of the practices of the Filipino-Indonesian-Malaysian arts are
> very dangerous to the sanity. Many practitioners cannot survive the
> experience, even while attended by knowlegeable practice leaders.
Can you elaborate a little on these practices/experiences? I'm
intrigued.
> Combat is a surreal experience. It is not like the real world- yet it
> is real.
Are you referring to combat in general, or combat specifically related
to F/I/M martial arts? If specific, can you describe what makes it
different? Again, I'm interested to know. (I've enjoyed reading your
posts on your art, and would like to learn a little more about it.)
> A number of the practitioners that I have known in my life have gone
> stone crazy; schizophrenic breaks, hallucinations and visitations,
> paranoid sudden-ness. It is just another hazard in a hazardous journey-
> if one does not explore it, one misses the experience. It's like not
> sparring or running from a confrontation.
>
I really don't think my life journey will be any less complete if I miss
the experience of "going stone crazy"; but then again, maybe I'm just
missing out! :)
-- Otter
Chas
Otter wrote:
>
> Chas wrote:
> >
> > Many of the practices of the Filipino-Indonesian-Malaysian arts are
> > very dangerous to the sanity. Many practitioners cannot survive the
> > experience, even while attended by knowlegeable practice leaders.
> Can you elaborate a little on these practices/experiences? I'm
> intrigued.
Scientists would call them 'trances', induced hallucinations, anecdotal
experiences.
The practices to infuse oneself with the animal, human or
mythological(?) creature spirit. Some experiences have 'medicines' that
surround them- stuff like that.
>
> > Combat is a surreal experience. It is not like the real world- yet it
> > is real.
>
> Are you referring to combat in general, or combat specifically related
> to F/I/M martial arts? If specific, can you describe what makes it
> different? Again, I'm interested to know. (I've enjoyed reading your
> posts on your art, and would like to learn a little more about it.)
In deadly combat, all the things you were taught not to do; kill people,
destroy stuff, cause pain, get good at it- don't work anymore- they
don't apply. The morality, social restraints &tc. are no longer useful
standards for common behaviour. A martial art (tm) must have a
mechanism/process/system/discipline to deal with preparing for that
alternative reality and it's necessary behaviour.
> > A number of the practitioners that I have known in my life have gone
> > stone crazy; schizophrenic breaks, hallucinations and visitations,
> > paranoid sudden-ness. It is just another hazard in a hazardous journey-
> > if one does not explore it, one misses the experience. It's like not
> > sparring or running from a confrontation.
> I really don't think my life journey will be any less complete if I miss
> the experience of "going stone crazy"; but then again, maybe I'm just
> missing out! :)
We all make our choices.
>
> -- Otter
Chas
Chas
Ingo Bojak wrote:(snip)
Rich:
> > Perhaps the people Chas knows have better 'gut feelings' than most?
> >
> This is of course a possibility. Let them show up and have their abilities
> tested. Or let them (or rather Chas) be quiet about them. In science each
> and every claim has to be backed up. Actually unsupported claims cannot
> even be made public in the science journals, because of the peer review
> system.
> Ciao,
> Ingo
Chas
Otter
Chas wrote:
>
> In deadly combat, all the things you were taught not to do; kill people,
> destroy stuff, cause pain, get good at it- don't work anymore- they
> don't apply. The morality, social restraints &tc. are no longer useful
> standards for common behaviour. A martial art (tm) must have a
> mechanism/process/system/discipline to deal with preparing for that
> alternative reality and it's necessary behaviour.
>
So, the practices/experiences in the F/I/M martial arts you described
earlier are those arts' mechanisms for dealing with the alternate
reality of combat, if I understand you properly.
Very serious stuff, indeed...
Thanks.
-- Otter
Chas
Otter wrote:
> So, the practices/experiences in the F/I/M martial arts you described
> earlier are those arts' mechanisms for dealing with the alternate
> reality of combat, if I understand you properly.
Sure. Take the simple ones; exhaustion- lots of martial arts teach ways
to deal with exhaustion, pain- lots of martial arts teach ways to deal
with pain, anxiety- exercise to deal with anxiousness and trepidation.
Now; less simple- remorse, reluctance, terror, 'being of two minds'-
these exercises start to deal with those things.
Much harder: divining the 'intention' of the enemy and foiling it,
augmenting ones' personal power, resisting wounding and healing,
striking with power and intention.
> Very serious stuff, indeed...
It's a terrible craft.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- Otter
Good on you,
Chas
GLobo43787
In article
<Pine.A41.3.95q.98020...@dilbert.physik.uni-dortmund.de>,
Ingo Bojak <bo...@dilbert.physik.uni-dortmund.de> writes:
>Of the usual "magic" none
>has survived lab tests thus far and skilled magicans can perform equally
>well using their tricks. Anyway, if you claim that you can do something
>that science can't explain, you have to give science a chance to test it.
>Talk the talk, walk the walk.
>
there is a healer in Britain called matthew Manning who was tested in lab
conditions. they gave him in vitro blood samples, and he CONSISTENTLY increased
the number of white blood cells in a statisticlly significant amount.
science will reject it because it doesnt UNDERSTAND, not because it can
disprove.
Glenn
martial arts
GLobo43787
In article <6bb8kc$sh8$1...@ocean.cup.hp.com>, ray...@cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
writes:
>You're talking about 2 Serrada tapes,
>1 Kadena de Mano tape and 1 Sinawali tape. 4+ hours of instruction vs. 2
>hours.
its not the length of the tapes, its the content. in the inay tapes, there is
little instruction, but mostly demonstration- there is a difference. Khalid
TEACHES it to you.
>> Ray those vidios by Mike Inay are very good. However, I think
>>its unfair and I can't understand how you can say they're the best without
checking out the vidio put out by Master Khalid Khan. I know you haven't seen
it because there is only about four in circulation in this country. I think
you're the greatest, I love the dijest, and I personally feel you owe it to
yourself to check this tape out. Afterwards, I'll have no problems with your
opinion of what you feel is the best tape. For the dollar, Master Khalid Khan
has enough techniques demonstrated to bring someone to a basic
instructor level once the techniques are perfected. Also, Master
Khalid is also one of only 16 people who are certified Masters
under AC. He knows his stuff.>>>
i have to agree with mallen. (except i dont know who you are so i dont think
youre the greatest.....but im sure you are a real nice guy!!)
i havent seen the tapes by Jimmy Tacosa, so i wouldnt presume to judge all
serrada tapes.
I DO have the inay tapes, and i do have the Khalid tape. comparing the two i
think Master Khalid's tape provides the better value, and the better
information, and the better instruction. i think the Inay tapes are good, well
produced, and well presented.
i would rather have Khalid's.
i also believe that he taught what he has in that tape, and i admire the
integrity and honesty required to do that. i would love to have a tape of AC
doing his stuff, as i like to get as near to source as i can. Khalid is one of
the top instructors in the world in serrada, by virtue of being one of the 16.
Mike Inay is not. that isnt to say he is good, but as mallen points out, he
moves like the master. i can believe that.
HAPPY TRAILS.
Glenn
martial arts
Ingo Bojak
On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Chas wrote:
> Didn't make such a claim; if I could do it, I'm not sure that science
> would be the first people I would tell- maybe Letterman.
>
So do most people who claim to have "super-natural" powers. That's
probably because Letterman is an acknowledged sceptic. He is well known
for his deep grounding in the scientific method, for his decades of
dedicated research using the best tools of experimental and theoretical
science. Never would he compromise his principles by making public
something he isn't absolutely certain about. He always has his show
checked out by respected experts in the field prior to airing it to avoid
any logical flaws. That must be the reason why you would like to be tested
by him, right?
> Also, I don't
> know what science has come to explain and what is still unknown to them.
>
Yeah.
> They change stuff all the time. Didn't science prove (at one time) that
> at over 25 miles per hour that the breath would be sucked from your
> lungs and you would die? Didn't science, at one time, say that it was
> impossible to gain control over 'autonomic' systems in ones' body?
>
1) Nobody ever claimed science was perfect, it's an on-going project. 2)
Many really stupid predicitions are made by single scientists, they aren't
accepted lore. But of course exactly those statements are then later
singled out to make fun of all of science. 3) Medicine has the worst time
of all hard sciences to gain an understanding of our world. The reason is
two-fold: firstly, the human body and mind is among the most complex
objects in the universe, thus a study of it is inherently difficult.
Secondly, experiments are practically not allowed because of ethical
reasons. This means that scientific progress is slowed down enormously. If
medical scientists were allowed to (and wanted to) experiment freely with
humans, without doubt we would get an exponentially increased growth of
knowledge. But luckily this isn't allowed in our society. So to cite
medicine as a proof of scientific failure is simply rhetorics.
> Science will catch up- after all- they are always behind the rest of us,
> that's their job.
>
Says a man typing on a computer, whose theoretical foundations were
discovered by Boole centuries ago and whose technological realization
depends on semi-conducting transistors developed decades ago. And the
software he is feeding this machine with relies on principles discovered
around Boole's time and put into modern form decades ago. All that was
done by scientists and their practical followers, the engineers. But the
man using the computer has probably not the least idea of what is really
going on in that machine he is using. And the same is true for almost
every device he uses the whole day long.
The fact is that science is a race that was started some centuries ago. By
now the front runners are so far ahead, that the best new runners need a
few decades to just catch up with them - in spite of being able to run on
good roads and in spite of the fact that the front runners have to explore
uncharted territory, and build the roads in it. You are sitting in the
dust cloud left behind by those runners and claim that they are behind
you, because you can't see them...
Ingo Bojak
On 6 Feb 1998, GLobo43787 wrote:
> there is a healer in Britain called matthew Manning who was tested in lab
> conditions. they gave him in vitro blood samples, and he CONSISTENTLY increased
> the number of white blood cells in a statisticlly significant amount.
> science will reject it because it doesnt UNDERSTAND, not because it can
> disprove.
>
Please give us the citation of the corresponding article in a peer
reviewed medical journal. Or is this just hearsay?
Richard Lancashire
GLobo43787 wrote:
> there is a healer in Britain called matthew Manning who was tested in lab
> conditions. they gave him in vitro blood samples, and he CONSISTENTLY increased
> the number of white blood cells in a statisticlly significant amount.
I've also read of a couple of papers in which certain healers reproduced
similar powers with cell cultures. I don't know enough biology to
comment on the techniques used though. I'll se if I can find the
references around anywhere.
:oP
Rich
MAllen5904
Glenn wrote:
>i have to agree with mallen. (except i dont know who you are so i dont think
>youre the greatest.....but im sure you are a real nice guy!!)
Me:
If you like FMA then you should connect to Eskrima Dijest
and then I think you'll find Ray is knowledgeable about FMA as well as many
other that subscribe to his Dijest. However,
I'm sorry I disagree with him on this one because I feel he's letting
personal feelings he has toward this man to interfere with an honest appraisal
on this tape.
Truely,
Mallen
Chas
Ingo Bojak wrote:
>
> On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Chas wrote:
>
> > Didn't make such a claim; if I could do it, I'm not sure that science
> > would be the first people I would tell- maybe Letterman.
> >
> So do most people who claim to have "super-natural" powers. That's
> probably because Letterman is an acknowledged sceptic. He is well known
> for his deep grounding in the scientific method, for his decades of
> dedicated research using the best tools of experimental and theoretical
> science. Never would he compromise his principles by making public
> something he isn't absolutely certain about. He always has his show
> checked out by respected experts in the field prior to airing it to avoid
> any logical flaws. That must be the reason why you would like to be tested
> by him, right?
Can't you read? I make no claims and ask for no testing. *I* saw some
things- I don't know how to 'validate' that for you- that was the point
of the posting.
>
> > Also, I don't
> > know what science has come to explain and what is still unknown to them.
> >
> Yeah.
>
> > They change stuff all the time. Didn't science prove (at one time) that
> > at over 25 miles per hour that the breath would be sucked from your
> > lungs and you would die? Didn't science, at one time, say that it was
> > impossible to gain control over 'autonomic' systems in ones' body?
> >
> 1) Nobody ever claimed science was perfect, it's an on-going project. 2)
> Many really stupid predicitions are made by single scientists, they aren't
> accepted lore. But of course exactly those statements are then later
> singled out to make fun of all of science. 3) Medicine has the worst time
> of all hard sciences to gain an understanding of our world. The reason is
> two-fold: firstly, the human body and mind is among the most complex
> objects in the universe, thus a study of it is inherently difficult.
> Secondly, experiments are practically not allowed because of ethical
> reasons. This means that scientific progress is slowed down enormously. If
> medical scientists were allowed to (and wanted to) experiment freely with
> humans, without doubt we would get an exponentially increased growth of
> knowledge. But luckily this isn't allowed in our society. So to cite
> medicine as a proof of scientific failure is simply rhetorics.
Well hell, we just won't use *that* anymore then, will we? Most of
martial art boils down to using the body- guess that doesn't fit in with
your plan. You invalidate the model and then whine about no proof? Good
move.
>
> > Science will catch up- after all- they are always behind the rest of us,
> > that's their job.
> >
> Says a man typing on a computer, whose theoretical foundations were
> discovered by Boole centuries ago and whose technological realization
> depends on semi-conducting transistors developed decades ago. And the
> software he is feeding this machine with relies on principles discovered
> around Boole's time and put into modern form decades ago. All that was
> done by scientists and their practical followers, the engineers. But the
> man using the computer has probably not the least idea of what is really
> going on in that machine he is using. And the same is true for almost
> every device he uses the whole day long.
So, explain to us what happens when the switch goes on. You gloss over
what you don't know as unimportant and ignore what would teach you
something.
>
> The fact is that science is a race that was started some centuries ago. By
> now the front runners are so far ahead, that the best new runners need a
> few decades to just catch up with them - in spite of being able to run on
> good roads and in spite of the fact that the front runners have to explore
> uncharted territory, and build the roads in it. You are sitting in the
> dust cloud left behind by those runners and claim that they are behind
> you, because you can't see them...
Run on then-
>
> Ciao,
> Ingo
Thanks for sharing,
Chas
Richard Lancashire
Ingo Bojak wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Richard Lancashire wrote:
> Seriously though, the "gut feeling" of a scientist is quite different from
> the "gut feeling" of an esoteric freak.
You say that like they're in some way distinguishable... ;)
> The "gut feeling" used in science
> is what you get after working long and hard on certain tasks. It's like a
> good car mechanic - he will spot the trouble in your car much faster than
> if he "goes by the book", simply because he has "gone by the book" so
> often that he knows what usually is the cause of the problem. And the gut
> feeling has to survive the test of experiment. Otherwise it is worthless.
But it is still a gut feeling - a pre-rational idea based on experience.
That's all I'm saying.
> > - a scientist cuts an infinite amount
> > of hypotheses down to half a dozen and then a couple and then one
> > largely by having 'the right feeling' about things.
> Nonsense. In truth the scientist comes up with a couple of hypotheses,
> works out what they predict, tests them by experiment and re-iterates this
> process until a hypothesis survives the experiment. The "right feeling"
> just comes into play concerning which hypothesis is _tested_ _first_. The
> "right feeling" has zero relevance if it doesn't fit observed facts.
OK, I wasn't saying the feeling supplants evidence. What I was saying
was that the feeling allows a scientist to pick a likely hypothesis to
test from the near-infinite amount of hypotheses available. That's all.
> Actually unsupported claims cannot
> even be made public in the science journals, because of the peer review
> system.
It also keeps some supported claims down for a while too...
:oP
Rich
MAllen5904
>Pete R. (mofojitsu@_xspamx_.hotmail.com) wrote:
>
>: Is this the same guy that tells people where their Death Spots are? I
>: forgot where mine was.
Ray wrote:
>Yes, this is the same Khalid.
>
>I think, and hope, that Khalid would admit that he went off the deep deep end
>a few years ago... suggesting that he could magically identify the "death
>spots" of folks he'd never met, being able to channel ANY martial arts Master
>(dead or alive) and perfectly reproduce their style of fighting, writing
>posts on how to successfully rape women, etc.
>
>I met and trained with Khalid prior to the above problems he encountered.
>During that time he was a gentleman and a fair martial artist. He didn't
>like even the slightest contact (even a slight touch) during training, which
>made it impossible for me to continue to workout with him.
Me:
When all else fails lets- - - - > Gossip ?
PLEASE ! We're martial artist discussing stlye and technique.
I personally don't know what he has to do to get a woman in
Pakistan, but in viewing his tapes I see he has perfectly reproduced or
kepted alive( a better tirm ) AC's style of
Escrima. I don't know where the Silat comes from but its also
good stuff. I, also, have a problem with contact. I find that the
bigger people tend to use their size and strenght advantage
turning a sparring match into nothing more than a Bar Room
brawl. To perpetuate a style I feel as though we should concern
ourseleves to the technical execution of the given techniques
in an controlled envirement. When the basics are mastered then
its another story altogether.This seems to work for Master Khan
because it seems he preseved AC's style to an exactness.
Respectfully,
Mallen
Ingo Bojak
On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Chas wrote:
> Can't you read? I make no claims and ask for no testing. *I* saw some
> things- I don't know how to 'validate' that for you- that was the point
> of the posting.
>
Ok. I don't mind you having seen anything. I have seen lots of strange
things myself. What I'm trying to say is that one shouldn't suggest that
"super-natural" feats can be performed by someone without suggesting
ways in which other people could test that claim. This is especially true,
if one at the same time projects a "science will catch up later" attitude.
> Well hell, we just won't use *that* anymore then, will we? Most of
> martial art boils down to using the body- guess that doesn't fit in with
> your plan. You invalidate the model and then whine about no proof? Good
> move.
>
Well, if you have read my posts about science being applied to martial
arts, then you will know that I've always been very critical about the
presented attempts. The reason is not that I suspect that science has
nothing to say about martial arts, but rather that I think that it is an
extremly complicated subject and a lot of effort would have to be
invested. The success of sport medicine for top athletes shows us that a
lot could be done (many top athletes have their body mechanics analyzed
and perfected using science nowadays), but it isn't. If you have a million
bucks to spare, I bet something could be worked out...
> So, explain to us what happens when the switch goes on. You gloss over
> what you don't know as unimportant and ignore what would teach you
> something.
>
Explain a computer in ten words or what? There is no king's road to
science. You have to study to learn even to know what to ask about.
Anyway, I haven't claimed to be an expert on computers. I happen to have
concentrated on something else. I just wanted to point out how absurd it
is for _anyone_ living in a modern society to claim that science only
keeps running after. There are certain subjects where science has still
some catching up to do, but in many fields it is so far ahead that its
result are more or less magic to us. Just start thinking of what is
necessary for a light bulb to be switched on. Just because we are used to
something (namely switching the light on), doesn't mean that it isn't
"magic".
> Run on then-
>
Yep.
Angie
In article <34DB1D...@ncl.ac.uk>, Richard Lancashire
<r.b.lan...@ncl.ac.uk> wrote:
> But it is still a gut feeling - a pre-rational idea based on experience.
> That's all I'm saying.
Not really Richard. The "gut feeling" the scientist uses to come up with
theories comes from having seen all sorts of different aspects of the
question in multiple settings. They don't just sit down one day and say
"Hey, I've got this feeling that there's an area in the left side of the
brain that causes people to talk." No. They sit down and they say "Gee,
out all these people I've seen with head injuries that can no longer talk,
all but one of them were hit in the left side of the head with a baseball
bat. And after they died, the same spot in their brains was mush. I bet
that area has something to do with talking. Maybe I should check this
out."
Unfortunately, most non-scientists gut feelings aren't based on experience.
Ingo said:
> > Nonsense. In truth the scientist comes up with a couple of hypotheses,
> > works out what they predict, tests them by experiment and re-iterates this
> > process until a hypothesis survives the experiment. The "right feeling"
> > just comes into play concerning which hypothesis is _tested_ _first_. The
> > "right feeling" has zero relevance if it doesn't fit observed facts.
Exactly.
> OK, I wasn't saying the feeling supplants evidence. What I was saying
> was that the feeling allows a scientist to pick a likely hypothesis to
> test from the near-infinite amount of hypotheses available. That's all.
But look at new students when they come into a lab. They look at a
problem for a few days and state "I think it may happen like this" and the
people who have been looking at it for years say: "nope. It can't
because of X,Y, and Z" and the student comes up with something else, and
the ideas are thrown down by people who have more experience in the
field. There are only near-infinte amounts of hypotheses available if you
don't know your subject matter. Once you know it, the number of possible
explanations is much smaller.
Besides. Scientists don't run experiments to document the feasibility of
ONE hypothesis...they run an experiment and say IF....THEN....ELSE, just
like any good computer program. They usually have a good idea how things
are going to turn out, but that only means that they'll be more likely to
catch procedural errors.
> > Actually unsupported claims cannot
> > even be made public in the science journals, because of the peer review
> > system.
>
> It also keeps some supported claims down for a while too...
Until they're substantiated, maybe. Until you show good enough data,
sure. The vast majority of the problem is that the media gets ahold of
ideas and blows them out of proportion. All you have to do is look at oat
bran muffins, eggs, and melatonin to see how this is true. I can't even
count the number of times that my advisor has been misquoted in the press,
or the reporters "summarize" wrongly for the audience. And added to that,
the general public basically has no idea what research is or how it's
done. It's depressing.
Now, can we please stop the evil scientist threads? Rehash the old ones
in deja news archives if you're really interested.
*soapbox mode off*
=(
Angie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DID YOU KNOW?
Amount American Airlines saved in 1987 by eliminating one olive
from each salad served first class: $40,000
Ingo Bojak
On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Angie wrote:
> Now, can we please stop the evil scientist threads? Rehash the old ones
> in deja news archives if you're really interested.
>
Actually what irks me most about the science threads is that all kinds of
people tell you what you as scientist are doing, in spite of not being
scientists themselves. I wonder if a butcher has many non-butchers
explaining to him at length what butchering is about. Probably not,
because if he gets really annoyed, he has lots of knives lying about...
Still, everybody has paid for us with their taxes, so I guess they have
earned the right to annoy us. It's part of the deal. What I wonder about
is if that is the only thing the public wants concerning contacts with
scientists. After all, science is amazingly unpopular on TV (with the
exception of documentaries about animals). Is that the fault of the
scientists or not?
Chas
Only a little way from making little ones out of big ones, Ingo Bojak
wrote:
>
> On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Chas wrote:
>
> > Can't you read? I make no claims and ask for no testing. *I* saw some
> > things- I don't know how to 'validate' that for you- that was the point
> > of the posting.
> >
> Ok. I don't mind you having seen anything. I have seen lots of strange
> things myself. What I'm trying to say is that one shouldn't suggest that
> "super-natural" feats can be performed by someone without suggesting
> ways in which other people could test that claim. This is especially true,
> if one at the same time projects a "science will catch up later" attitude.
Now see, I didn't know that if I saw something that I had to come up
with a way to test it for you. Hell, that changes *everything*. Didn't
project a 'science will catch..." attitude; science relegates *my*
perception to 'mere anecdotal evidence' and expects me to ignore it?
shit; you guys don't know why a frogs' ass is watertight.
>
> > Well hell, we just won't use *that* anymore then, will we? Most of
> > martial art boils down to using the body- guess that doesn't fit in with
> > your plan. You invalidate the model and then whine about no proof? Good
> > move.
> >
> Well, if you have read my posts about science being applied to martial
> arts, then you will know that I've always been very critical about the
> presented attempts. The reason is not that I suspect that science has
> nothing to say about martial arts, but rather that I think that it is an
> extremly complicated subject and a lot of effort would have to be
> invested. The success of sport medicine for top athletes shows us that a
> lot could be done (many top athletes have their body mechanics analyzed
> and perfected using science nowadays), but it isn't. If you have a million
> bucks to spare, I bet something could be worked out...
I'm already invested in a research project. When I'm ready to present
it for peer review, I'll make sure you physic-ka get the news.
I did follow your previous posts- when you guys couldn't agree that
water's wet, I stepped off of the train.
>
> > So, explain to us what happens when the switch goes on. You gloss over
> > what you don't know as unimportant and ignore what would teach you
> > something.
> >
> Explain a computer in ten words or what? There is no king's road to
> science. You have to study to learn even to know what to ask about.
That was *my* line.
> Anyway, I haven't claimed to be an expert on computers. I happen to have
> concentrated on something else. I just wanted to point out how absurd it
> is for _anyone_ living in a modern society to claim that science only
> keeps running after. There are certain subjects where science has still
> some catching up to do, but in many fields it is so far ahead that its
> result are more or less magic to us. Just start thinking of what is
> necessary for a light bulb to be switched on. Just because we are used to
> something (namely switching the light on), doesn't mean that it isn't
> "magic".
Shit; that was *my* line too.
>
> > Run on then-
> >
> Yep.
>
> Ciao,
> Ingo
Very best to you,
Chas
Richard Lancashire
Angie wrote:
> Now, can we please stop the evil scientist threads? Rehash the old ones
> in deja news archives if you're really interested.
Hah, you're just stalling for time so you can eat some more babies.
:oP
Rich
Don Wagner
Richard Lancashire <r.b.lan...@ncl.ac.uk> wrote:
>Angie wrote:
At least now she cooks them over a bunsen burner in the lab. She used
to just dice them and mix them in with her Ramen Noodles.
;-)
--Don--
On the other hand, you have different fingers.
Don Wagner
lgd...@nwu.edu (Angie) wrote:
[snip]
>Unfortunately, most non-scientists gut feelings aren't based on experience.
Not based on _concious_ experience and observation, maybe. Have you
ever seen someone make a link from point A to point C without going
through point B?
Comp. Sci. Don agrees with you, Angie. Nod has some issues...
Chas
Don Wagner wrote:
>
> Richard Lancashire <r.b.lan...@ncl.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >Angie wrote:
>
> >> Now, can we please stop the evil scientist threads? Rehash the old ones
> >> in deja news archives if you're really interested.
>
> >Hah, you're just stalling for time so you can eat some more babies.
> >:oP
> >Rich
>
> At least now she cooks them over a bunsen burner in the lab. She used
> to just dice them and mix them in with her Ramen Noodles.
> --Don--
> On the other hand, you have different fingers.
Chas
Angie
In article <6bfkh7$i...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, dawa...@ix.netcom.com
(Don Wagner) wrote:
> Richard Lancashire <r.b.lan...@ncl.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >Angie wrote:
>
> >> Now, can we please stop the evil scientist threads? Rehash the old ones
> >> in deja news archives if you're really interested.
>
> >Hah, you're just stalling for time so you can eat some more babies.
> >:oP
> >Rich
>
> At least now she cooks them over a bunsen burner in the lab. She used
> to just dice them and mix them in with her Ramen Noodles.
<cue homer simpson voice>
Ummmmmmm. Ramen Noodles and baby parts....
=)
Ray Terry
MAllen5904 (malle...@aol.com) wrote:
: Ray those vidios by Mike Inay are very good. However, I think
: its unfair and I can't understand how you can say they're the best without
: checking out the vidio put out by Master Khalid Khan. I know you haven't seen
: it because there is only about four in circulation in this country.
I have seen them. Or at least significant portions of them. I hate to say
anything against Khalid as I like him as a person, but his Serrada isn't
great. 8 years ago I thought he was a Serrada master. Now I realize
that he, like Mark Wiley and several others, just have Master Certificates.
There is a difference...
Ray
Ray Terry
MAllen5904 (malle...@aol.com) wrote:
: When all else fails lets- - - - > Gossip ?
What has failed???
Gossip?!? Nope, only facts. If you were in rec.m-a about 5 or 6 years ago
you would have witnessed Khalid's posts. They finally got him kicked off
the net. He then returned home, where he still remains.
Like I say, Khalid is a nice guy. Even when he was having very serious
problems I still liked him. But we must all live with our actions, past and
present. The archives of rec.m-a don't lie.
Ray
mark
Dude,
You don't think there's some sort of conflict between your first two
paragraphs and the last two lines of your third?
Mark
bill...@juno.com wrote:
> Christans are the last people in the world to develop thin skin.
> Taking into consideration the atrocitys commited by them througout
> history.
> <snip other post>
>
> Who cares about christianity? Or christ for that matter? Who cares
> about jesus? And all the lies? Insult a arab, and you might get your
> throught slit. Its just a fact of life.
> <snip other post>
>
> You have a shallow understanding of arab psychology. What you dont
> think to be insulting, may be offensive to another. Just another
> arrogant asshole who has no concept of another cultures values or ways
> of thinking. And you then try and impress us with the oh so classic
> "I have (enter ethinic/religious/racial group) friends".
>
Pete R.
On 5 Feb 1998 14:35:33 GMT, ray...@cup.hp.com (Ray Terry) wrote:
>Pete R. (mofojitsu@_xspamx_.hotmail.com) wrote:
>
>: Is this the same guy that tells people where their Death Spots are? I
>: forgot where mine was.
>
>Yes, this is the same Khalid.
>
>I think, and hope, that Khalid would admit that he went off the deep deep end
>a few years ago... suggesting that he could magically identify the "death
>spots" of folks he'd never met, being able to channel ANY martial arts Master
>(dead or alive) and perfectly reproduce their style of fighting, writing
>posts on how to successfully rape women, etc.
>
>I met and trained with Khalid prior to the above problems he encountered.
>During that time he was a gentleman and a fair martial artist. He didn't
>like even the slightest contact (even a slight touch) during training, which
>made it impossible for me to continue to workout with him.
Couldn't stand to be touched huh? That reminds me of a kid named John
back in second grade or so. Not only did he not like to be touched,
but if you touched him, he had to touch you back even if it meant
chasing you to the ends of the Earth. :) Now at that age you have no
appreciation or sympathy for mental illness, so of course this was a
great entertainment for the kids during recess. As fate would have it
John was a superhuman runner, so you had to make sure you were pretty
near a backstop or other obstacle or he would run you down in no time.
:) Round about the third grade I guess he had had enough therapy that
he wouldn't chase you anymore. So, we had to go back to playing
soccer, nationball, bouncing those giant red rubber balls off people's
heads (usually the unfortunate 'yard-dutys' from the high school who
had to watch us brats), and playing a game creatively named Smear the
Queer, Kill the Man with the Ball, or a few others depending on your
geographic region. Ah, memories. ;) Anyway I hope John is better
now, and if he isn't then for the sake of society I sincerely hope his
hobbies don't include mastering edged weapons. :)))
Temujin
Ray,
Could you please explain what your post has to do with the question
about the quality and value of Khalid Khan's tapes on Serrada vs. Mike
Inay's tapes on Kadena de Mano? It is true that the archives of rma
would not lie with regard to what Mr. Khan posted some 5-6 years back,
but real question is about the instructional value of the two tape
series in question - Khan's vs. Inay.
Globo43787 quoted you as writing:
In article <6bb8kc$sh8$1...@ocean.cup.hp.com>, ray...@cup.hp.com (Ray
Terry)
writes:
>You're talking about 2 Serrada tapes,
>1 Kadena de Mano tape and 1 Sinawali tape. 4+ hours of instruction vs. 2
>hours.
Globo43787, then responded:
its not the length of the tapes, its the content. in the inay tapes,
there is
little instruction, but mostly demonstration- there is a difference.
Khalid
TEACHES it to you.
Mallen raised the following point:
>> Ray those vidios by Mike Inay are very good. However, I think
>>its unfair and I can't understand how you can say they're the best without
checking out the vidio put out by Master Khalid Khan. I know you haven't
seen
it because there is only about four in circulation in this country. I
think
you're the greatest, I love the dijest, and I personally feel you owe it
to
yourself to check this tape out. Afterwards, I'll have no problems with
your
opinion of what you feel is the best tape. For the dollar, Master Khalid
Khan
has enough techniques demonstrated to bring someone to a basic
instructor level once the techniques are perfected. Also, Master
Khalid is also one of only 16 people who are certified Masters
under AC. He knows his stuff.>>>
Please help me out here and please leave aside what Mr. Khan was posting
5-6 years ago. Is there a difference between the presentations in the
Khan and Inay tapes as stated by Globo and Mallen? Are the Inay tapes
mostly demonstration and the Khan tapes instructional? Yes or no?
I am sure that the Inay tapes are valuble and helpful, but they may not
be as useful to some potential viewers and Khan's. And the converse
would also be true, perhaps I would prefer the demonstration format
because of the ideas presented and I could tease out the instructional
points on my own. Perhaps I
and others would like the Inay series more than Khan's because we are
not intersested in the 'pure serrada' concepts. Your response will go a
long ways toward helping me to decide about buying/not buying the Inay
series. It is very clear to me that you are an advocate for the Inay
tape series.
Temujin
HB
GLobo43787 wrote:
> Quark
> i think you gotta be a little careful- some people take offence real easy.
> muslims in my town tried to burn down a bingo hall cos the owners used their
> name in the front- MECCA. they are a long established company here. the
> arguement was that it showed disrespect to their religion. i personally think
> that is crap- knifing one of your own in a mosque does that more (they done
> that too) .
This message shows your oriental views. It also shows you have no understanding
whatsoever for the way religous ppl
think. These were not secularised muslims, you need to keep that in mind, i.e they
have a different view on things.
The knifing has NOTHING to do with your arguement, that is why I say you have
oriental view on things. Muslims are humans, they have assholes too. What should
they do? Think "I dont care if anyone disrespects my views, because someone knifed
down someone in the mosque last week so I will not protest".
Personally I am not religous but I have respect for religous people, it's their
point of view and you can't condemd it that easilly.
If you think about it, that company didn't have a right using that name.
It's like if my friend is a jew, and to him the most important thing is the Tanah.
Now if I am to write a book I wouldn't use that name just because it brings sarcasm
to it. If I did, he would most likely get upset. And it would show I have no
respect for his religion. You should have respect for other people and not offend
them.
- Ali
- Ali
Ray Terry
Temujin (pres...@wny.com) wrote:
: Ray,
: Could you please explain what your post has to do with the question
: about the quality and value of Khalid Khan's tapes ...
My post was simply a response to Mallen's post. Please reread the sequence.
As for my friend Khalid's tapes, well, simply check out something very
basic and simple like the footwork. Do you see good Serrada footwork being
demo-ed, or taught? No. It continues on from there...
Yes, I am biased. I know Serrada so I can't look at the tapes like a person
new to Serrada will. But I worry about proper fundamentals being properly
taught for a person to properly learn Serrada.
Ray
Tony J3441
Could someone tell me who was Khalid Khan's instructor?
Thank You
TJ
Ray Terry
Tony J3441 (tony...@aol.com) wrote:
: Could someone tell me who was Khalid Khan's instructor?
GM Angel Cabales.
Ray
Ragingtom
Dear Ray'
Read your post about Mark Wiley and his master certificate, please tell me the
difference. I saw Mark in action in 1992 he looked pretty good to me. This was
in west philly above a video store.
TR
Ray Terry
Ragingtom (ragi...@aol.com) wrote:
: Dear Ray'
: Read your post about Mark Wiley and his master certificate, please tell me the
: difference. I saw Mark in action in 1992 he looked pretty good to me. This was
: in west philly above a video store.
Yes, Mark is a talented athlete.
Ray
Temujin
Hello Ray,
Thanks for your reply. It helps me to make my decision. I am not
interested in the Khan tapes, but my partners will be looking into the
Kadena de Mano Tapes.
Temujin
David Williams
Ray Terry <ray...@cup.hp.com> wrote:
: MAllen5904 (malle...@aol.com) wrote:
: : Ray those vidios by Mike Inay are very good. However, I think
: : its unfair and I can't understand how you can say they're the best without
: : checking out the vidio put out by Master Khalid Khan. I know you haven't seen
: : it because there is only about four in circulation in this country.
: I have seen them. Or at least significant portions of them. I hate to say
: anything against Khalid as I like him as a person, but his Serrada isn't
: great. 8 years ago I thought he was a Serrada master. Now I realize
: that he, like Mark Wiley and several others, just have Master Certificates.
You mean a Master Certificate from the founder of the system is not enough?
Wow.
: There is a difference...
Or are you saying that a Master's Certificate in Ng Serrada Eskrima is just
the equivalent of a first dan rank as in some Asian arts and not the
equivalent of a Shihan rank?
Is there anything in terms of what the late GM Cabales intended a Master's
Certificate to imply that is documented? Does Vincent Cabales have anything
of his father's works that might shed light on this?
: Ray
Who would you list as Masters in Serrada?
regards,
--
David Williams mailto:d...@wingchun.com
Planet Wing Chun http://www.wingchun.com/
Bay Area Wing Chun Association http://www.thesphere.com/SJWC
Ingo Bojak
On 6 Feb 1998, Ray Terry wrote:
> I have seen them. Or at least significant portions of them. I hate to say
> anything against Khalid as I like him as a person, but his Serrada isn't
> great. 8 years ago I thought he was a Serrada master. Now I realize
> that he, like Mark Wiley and several others, just have Master Certificates.
> There is a difference...
>
So, why did AC give him the master certificate then? Sounds to me like
questioning AC's authority on his style or his integrity.
Perhaps your views are colored by the fact that your Guro didn't get a
master certificate (as I have read in this thread)? Who is going to decide
who is a "real" master of Serrada then, if not AC, and according to which
criteria?
Ray Terry
Ingo Bojak (bo...@dilbert.physik.uni-dortmund.de) wrote:
: On 6 Feb 1998, Ray Terry wrote:
: > I have seen them. Or at least significant portions of them. I hate to say
: > anything against Khalid as I like him as a person, but his Serrada isn't
: > great. 8 years ago I thought he was a Serrada master. Now I realize
: > that he, like Mark Wiley and several others, just have Master Certificates.
: > There is a difference...
: >
: So, why did AC give him the master certificate then? Sounds to me like
: questioning AC's authority on his style or his integrity.
:
: Perhaps your views are colored by the fact that your Guro didn't get a
: master certificate (as I have read in this thread)? Who is going to decide
: who is a "real" master of Serrada then, if not AC, and according to which
: criteria?
I cannot honestly dismiss the notion that I may be biased. So all I can do
is relate the facts.
Paying for and receiving a certificate is different than earning and deserving
a certificate. GM Angel trusted people far too much. He assumed that people
would return to complete their training and actually become a Master -after-
they received a paper cert. GM Angel is no longer with us, but GM Vincent
continues to carry the torch for Cabales Serrada Escrima and these certificate
holders can always return to continue their study under the GM of CSE.
Ray
RONIN®
malle...@aol.com (MAllen5904) scribbled with their Crayola:
>> He didn't
>>like even the slightest contact (even a slight touch) during training, which
>>made it impossible for me to continue to workout with him.
> good stuff. I, also, have a problem with contact. I find that the
> bigger people tend to use their size and strenght advantage
> turning a sparring match into nothing more than a Bar Room
> brawl.
My apologies because I snipped a good deal of the conversation
and some relevant points in the sides just to bring a new idea for a
thread out.
Contact.
Some people like it. Some don't. What are your views on it?
RONIN®
"When pure knuckles meet pure flesh,
that's pure Karate,
no matter who executes it
or whatever style is involved."
--Ed Parker--
Don Wagner
ronin...@wwdc.com (RONIN®) wrote:
> Contact.
> Some people like it. Some don't. What are your views on it?
> RONIN®
I'm all for it. By facing bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled
people in realist training you grow and learn how to handle yourself
in just the situations you could face.
By conditioning yourself to be able to keep going after getting hit
you are preparing yourself for the reality of getting hit. Getting
hit hard is a good teacher, it's unpleasant and we tend to learn how
to aviod unpleasant things quickly.
--Don--
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Angie
In article <6bmvue$i...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, dawa...@ix.netcom.com
(Don Wagner) wrote:
> ronin...@wwdc.com (RONIN®) wrote:
> > Contact.
> > Some people like it. Some don't. What are your views on it?
> > RONIN®
Getting hit hurts. =(
> I'm all for it. By facing bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled
> people in realist training you grow and learn how to handle yourself
> in just the situations you could face.
>
> By conditioning yourself to be able to keep going after getting hit
> you are preparing yourself for the reality of getting hit. Getting
> hit hard is a good teacher, it's unpleasant and we tend to learn how
> to aviod unpleasant things quickly.
Yes, yes, yes, but it still hurts! =P
Seriously though, I agree with Don. Getting hit usually makes you get out
of the way faster the next time! Guess my view would be "don't like it,
but I figure it's a necessary evil." How's that? =)
mind...@cyber.net.pk
From Khalid Khan, in Karachi:
My Serrada is tough. Tested against Karate and Silat [also].
Nobody can say that. I was first attacked by a whole bunch of
karate guys [in another country] while on a visit and injured.
I recovered to fight them and beat them using hand to hand of
basic Serrada. Karate is treacherous and has no respect.
Many of you I know left search for martial arts because
in your early years you got injured while being taught
by Mister Zen, his method. Filipino martial arts are taught by
men who are like your uncle, very kind and thoughtful and
then the art gets completed because initially it is very
geometry based and not exercise-based [tough]. The toughness
of FMA comes from its skillfulness and then it will become
dangerous if you attack the Escrima master.
In my initial younger days, I clearly gave up karate. I was
put up against a blackbelt stupid after one week of attending
a karate academy and he severely injured me.
One day I met Vince Uttley who works at Silicon Graphics in
Mountain View, California. He is a top student of Jimmy Tacosa.
He demonstrated his Serrada against my 'tought' type attacks,
and he was very fine. I went to Inosanto Academy to learn
filipino art if even for a weekend. It was too far from the bay area
to LA to go there for more classes. Brian Begley, another friend
hero, went to learn there and became very good. The best thing to
happen to San Jose is Nirmalaya Bhowmick the Muay Thai instructor
from Calcutta.
I went to Stockton one afternoon. I had no job. I had to go
to Sacramento to a job interview at some LAN company. They were
most disrespectful and stupid. I said thankyou because this computer
industry was giving me bad health. I wanted to learn something
that I could make at home with. Good riddance. The four year college
education is given most strangely compared to education of a
filipino martial arts curriculum. At end of four years of college
you all say "we did not learn anything!" What a complete bullshit
experience. I am learning more in the village atmosphere in Asia.
I do not want to become anybody, just a friend for all.
I stopped at Stockton on the way back. On the street, I stopped
at blue car coming from one direction [Bianchi street]. The man
stopped, it was ANGEL Cabales! The first person I stopped turned
out to be Angel Cabales. Very true. He guided me to his apartment,
and immediately taught strike no 1 counters. He accepts everybody
and does not talk strangely. I learned from him from 1987-1991.
I was the last person with him on night of March 2, 1991 when he
lay dying at local Stockton hospital. He had shrunk in size and
looked very ill. One week before, he was just great looking. The
AMA had done him. Some doctor had given him Chemotherapy, and
he was on his way to the grave. But, you cannot challenge this
American institution. Just stay away from hospitals.
Vincent Cabales and myself stayed till morning. It was raining.
Angel came to and grabbed my arm and laughed and then went to coma.
The man was virtually ignored because the general public likes
Hollywood. But now his power spreads in Southeast Asia like
thunder, with my students teaching in Java and Malaysia, Africa
and in United Arab republics. His style is complete for all angles.
I have checked out Silat in Indonesia and Malaysia, and I know
this is like Silat Sendeng or Silat Syahbandar.
We did a famous Silat seminar, inviting Sulaiman Sharif of
Silat seni Gayong to San Jose. Then, we also invited Joseph Siregar.
We let them teach their styles in two consecutive seminars. Compared
to Cabales, these Silat instructors would not show their style
to students. Cabales did not follow this policy and was strict
honest. The Los Angeles escrma kali people and bay area escrima kali
people said Cabales is nobody. Nobody will know their system as well
as this man's style. Joseph and Sulaiman are good in their system
which I thought I was missing, but a careful study of the Serrada
system revealed that you can make techniques at any level, height
or direction. In addition, these two always derided us, which made
no sense, because we always promoted them. Nevertheless, we say
they are very good. I have no time for other people now, too busy
with my own academy and now a film production of world's first
escrima/kali film which Hollywood will never make.
Bob Batchelar was my first student, thru whom I learned
how to sense the Serrada. Zeff and Patrick were the ones who
suddenly saw the spiritual Lightning one day while working
out at my dingy apartment. Complete and clear silver lightning
bolts without any hallucination. Extremely real. Later, on
the street in Sunnyvale, at corner of El Camino Real and
Pomeroy myself and two unrelated Americans saw a huge bolt of
Silver Lightning right in middle of street, that then rose to
roof top level and then into clouds. Everyone was enthralled,
but we did not discuss because it was too much.
I visited Sufi Sheikh Hisham Kabbani to discuss the spiritual
experiences. At once, the Lightning appeared in his presence
also. I went to the mosque in Santa Clara where I had taken Bob
once, and two bolts of Lightning appeared, about 7 feet tall.
But the people could not see them. Only the Sufi Sheikh saw them.
This experience of course would seem strange to one who did not
have them. It was result of recitation method of the Asma ul-Husna,
the 99 Names of God, which I did 10,000 times a night and
it took me 2 hours after midnight. I did this for 18 months.
One day Bob Batchelar and others and myself went to work out
in the park near rte 280 [San Antonio park?]. We were reported
by some jogger, and then the parks ranger arrived. That was
the last of our escrima classes.
Mike Inay had a great looking academy. He devoted a lot of
time and money to promoting Serrada. Andre Green and Hart I met
briefly. Since they practice so much, they must be good. I have
a copy of their video from somewhere, long time ago from
a demo at LeBaron hotel. They are all good when they are teaching
the art to the next generation.
Mark Wiley is good. I never met him. He is an authority I hear
on the history and techniques of FMA.
Kimble Joyce is the world's best. Jimmy Tacosa and others are
also good. But I don't know them well. They respected me when I
learned for a few classes. Brian Laufer is good, he went to learn
from Joseph Siregar. World's Ultimate Best is Garry Bowlds,
who is a black guy with huge charm and brilliant Serrada.
World's biggest Americana story is Steven Pearce, seemingly
homeless roaming instructor of Serrada and the good. My Serrada style
is what God has allowed me, could be I am missing some portions,
but everyone knows something and something is maybe not active
at the time. FMA must be procured and recorded on tape and film,
because it is very movement and specific based. regards.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Don Wagner
lgd...@nwu.edu (Angie) wrote:
>In article <6bmvue$i...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, dawa...@ix.netcom.com
>(Don Wagner) wrote:
>> ronin...@wwdc.com (RONIN®) wrote:
>> > Contact.
>> > Some people like it. Some don't. What are your views on it?
>> > RONIN®
>Getting hit hurts. =(
>
>> I'm all for it. By facing bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled
>> people in realist training you grow and learn how to handle yourself
>> in just the situations you could face.
>>
>> By conditioning yourself to be able to keep going after getting hit
>> you are preparing yourself for the reality of getting hit. Getting
>> hit hard is a good teacher, it's unpleasant and we tend to learn how
>> to aviod unpleasant things quickly.
>Yes, yes, yes, but it still hurts! =P
>Seriously though, I agree with Don. Getting hit usually makes you get out
>of the way faster the next time! Guess my view would be "don't like it,
>but I figure it's a necessary evil." How's that? =)
>=)
>Angie
This is why you have to move east and play with us on a regular basis.
;-)
--Don--
Drink your coffee! There are people in India sleeping.
Stephen O Gombosi
In article <19980206125...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
GLobo43787 <globo...@aol.com> wrote:
>there is a healer in Britain called matthew Manning who was tested in lab
>conditions. they gave him in vitro blood samples, and he CONSISTENTLY increased
>the number of white blood cells in a statisticlly significant amount.
>science will reject it because it doesnt UNDERSTAND, not because it can
>disprove.
That's a pretty neat trick, considering that white blood cells are produced
by stem cells in your bone marrow - the absence of which is pretty much
implied by the statement that these were "in vitro" samples. My bet is
that:
a) no such test occurred, or
b) he switched the vials. Scientists are pretty poor at dealing with
duplicity, since nature seldom lies.
Got any references?
Steve
RONIN®
dawa...@ix.netcom.com (Don Wagner) scribbled with their Crayola:
> we tend to learn how
>to aviod unpleasant things quickly.
No. I dated her for about 3 years. I'm kinda slow I guess. But
I'm not bitter.
:)
GLobo43787
In article <6bi6mp$a1c$1...@ocean.cup.hp.com>, ray...@cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
writes:
>Do you see good Serrada footwork being
>demo-ed, or taught? No
have you seen the tape?
i compared the tapes of Mike Inay, and Khalid Khan, and the footwork is not
dissimilar. Khalid looks better because he is actually not slipping and almost
falling over.
I hate to say
: > anything against Khalid as I like him as a person, but his Serrada isn't
: > great. 8 years ago I thought he was a Serrada master. Now I realize
: > that he, like Mark Wiley and several others, just have Master Certificates.
: > There is a difference...
fact is he has it, and he must have earned it at some point, or hundreds of
others would have got them too. Inosanto hasnt got one, but Khalid has. that
says a lot about him to me. unless you think AC sold out , or ...... or what?
Glenn
martial arts
GLobo43787
In article <34DC88D2...@aso.edu.stockholm.se>, HB
<hb-...@aso.edu.stockholm.se> writes:
>If you think about it, that company didn't have a right using that name.
it is the name of the company. of course they have the right.
>>You should have respect for other people and not offend
them.>>
>so how does fire- bombing the place show respect? big on talk of having
respect shown to you, short on showing it to others. what about tolerance,
understanding and such like?
martial arts
Ray Terry
GLobo43787 (globo...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <6bi6mp$a1c$1...@ocean.cup.hp.com>, ray...@cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
: writes:
: >Do you see good Serrada footwork being
: >demo-ed, or taught? No
: have you seen the tape?
Yep.
: i compared the tapes of Mike Inay, and Khalid Khan, and the footwork is not
: dissimilar. Khalid looks better because he is actually not slipping and almost
: falling over.
Wrong. Sounds like you haven't seen the tapes in question. Come back when
you have. Or perhaps you don't know Serrada? How many years have you
been studying Serrada? Or perhaps you are referring to the part where Inay
demos how -not- to do Serrada footwork?
: says a lot about him to me. unless you think AC sold out , or ...... or what?
Already explained fully.
Ray
Angie
In article <6bntr1$e...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, dawa...@ix.netcom.com
(Don Wagner) wrote:
> This is why you have to move east and play with us on a regular basis.
In other words: "Move east so we can hit you with a big stick on a
regular basis."
It's such a tempting proposition. Really.
=P
Angie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows. And a
foundation leaks and a ball game gets rained out and a car rusts and...
GLobo43787
In article <6bt085$e2b$1...@ocean.cup.hp.com>, ray...@cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
writes:
>Sounds like you haven't seen the tapes in question. Come back when
>you have.
smug patronising wanker arent you. i have seen the tapes, and i would
appreciate your explaining how the footwork differs.
>>Or perhaps you don't know Serrada? How many years have you
been studying Serrada?
i havent. i got the video to see if i wanted to. i got the inay tapes to make
sure that what was on Khalids tape was serrada. what are the differences then?
ok so you obviously do serrada, with.whom?
WHERE is the footwork in the inay tapes?
>>Paying for and receiving a certificate is different than earning and
deserving
a certificate.>>
so you are saying that Mark wiley and Khalid payed for their certificates. from
where do you get this gem?
i have been doing martial arts for a while, and i cant see much wrong in the
way Khalid moves, irrespective of whether his serrada is any good. so enlighten
us.
try not to be so patronising or defensive though. it doesnt do the discussion
much good. i wouold really like to know.
you see i assumed that AC graded people when they were ready for it. i assumed
that because some 16 people had Masters certificates, that they must be
seriously good at this game. you tell me otherwise, and i need to know why.
many thanks
Glenn
martial arts
Jivita
I've been off-line for a while, so I'm a little late in entering the fray.
Since I’m one of the 4 who’ve received K. Khan’s video, I’d thought I’d throw
in my two cents.
Firstly, I do not know Mr. Khan, so I have no biases one way or the other.
Neither do I practice Serrada but I do practice Eskrima and have for many
years. I reviewed the tape earlier and I’m sure it’s floating around on the
newsgroup somewhere.
In addition, I own several MA video tapes. (Dan Inosanto’s FMA series, D.
Canete’s Basic Doce Pares, R. Preses’ Modern Arnis, Ted Lucay Lucay’s Filipino
Boxing and Stephan Chan’s Nucleous of Wing Chun) I’ve also view quite a few
others, mostly FMA and Silat. (I have not seen the aforementioned Inay videos)
I’d have to agree with others that Mr. Khan’s Serrada video is a good value.
Most of the tapes I mentioned above retailed for $40-60. Hardly any are over 1
hour and none of the tapes that I actually shelled out money for are. (By the
way, the worst of the lot was the Chan video. Don’t by it, save your money.)
Mr. Khan’s tape is close to 2hrs and retails for $80. So $/hour wise, it’s on
the low end. That does not make it a good value though. I think what make it a
good value is the amount of material covered. Mr. Khan’s tape could have easily
been broken out into 3 or 4 tapes. Admittedly, some material could have been
covered for a longer period of time and vice versa; for the person looking for
an overview of Serrada, with some other interesting stuff thrown in, they could
do worse.
Regarding the question of Mr. Khan’s abilities in Serrada. There are many
videos out there. How well do any of us know the skill level of those
presenting/participating in the videos. How many of us have bought videos of a
well know instructor only to be disappointed? I know I have! Content wise, I
can't find flaw's in the Serrada portion of the tape. I'm not a Serrada
practicioner, so I was happy with what I saw. I didn't knitpick. (I did do this
with the Chan video and hated it. Maybe there's a lesson here. Everyone has
their way of do things or were taught a certain way. Perhaps seeing things done
differently (read: WRONG) crimps our sensibilities. Maybe we shouldn't buy
videos in our individual systems.)
The tapes show basic Serrada techniques. Presumably, Mr. Khan is (I hope) at
least competent in the Serrada basics, regardless of whether he continued his
"Masters" training. One shouldn’t have to be a master to relate the basics of a
system on video. It’s a training and information aid- not an instructor.
I'm neither defending nor condeming Mr. Khan or his video. I only think that we
have to be fair and objective with regards to the Mr. Khan's chosen medium and
what can be accomplished with it.
Jimmer
Serrada In Seattle
X-No-Archive=YES
>i have been doing martial arts for a while, and i cant see much wrong in the
>way Khalid moves, irrespective of whether his serrada is any good. so enlighten
>us.
>try not to be so patronising or defensive though. it doesnt do the discussion
>much good. i wouold really like to know.
>you see i assumed that AC graded people when they were ready for it. i assumed
>that because some 16 people had Masters certificates, that they must be
>seriously good at this game. you tell me otherwise, and i need to know why.
>many thanks
>Glenn
>martial arts
I completle agree. I was one of the few people to win Master Khan's
video by answering his Angle #4 strike question. Khalid Khan is at
least making an effort to spread Angel's art to people who are
interested.
He is using his own financial resources, offering to answer any and
all inquiries with an honest heart. I don't know what the controversy
surrounding Khan was about 3 or 4 years ago, but he has done nothing;
thus far, but promote the art of Serrada Eskrima in a positive way.
For that, I commend him.
Although, I have not had the privilege of training with Angel Cabales,
as a follower of his system, I am giving him the proper respect he
deserves by not questioning the ability of the students he has given
Masters Certificates too. If you take each day as it comes and train
with great passion and belief in your Serrada, isn't that what matters
the most?
Serrada in Seattle
MAllen5904
Me:
I think its called politics. You have people who love
Inayenes Escrima and they voice their own opinions about
their rivals like Khalid Khan and Mark Wiley, two people
certified by AC but are subject of ridicule by these rivals.
Its a free country with the freedom of expressing our opinions.
Thank God for that, but we have to watch some of the things
we hear. Gossip is really nothing more than regurgitated BS
and should be treated as such. Walk with an open mind
and research to find the truth,if its really important to you.
Mallen
Ray Terry
: their rivals like Khalid Khan and Mark Wiley, two people
: certified by AC but are subject of ridicule by these rivals.
I really wish I could address that, but I cannot in public. It seems that
what I've already explained has not been fully understood. But you can
trust that Khalid and Mark and not viewed as rivals.
Ray
Susan Riake
bill...@juno.com wrote in article <6dktbt$bvd$3...@gte2.gte.net>...
> On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:29:47 -0700, Chas <gryp...@worldnet.att.net>
That may very well be true.Pentecostals may not be able to
dance for shit.But you ought to see them change a light-
bulb!!!!One changes the lightbulb while a HUGE ARMY
of them casts out the spirits of darkness!!! H+=;-)
Sincerely;Susan
"Everybody goes to heaven,nobody goes to hell!!!"