(Chung Moo) A strange letter from National Instructor Frank Kucia to 2nd degree instructors

russell delbert johnson

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Oct 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/21/96

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HEDSTAR, INCORPORATED
3030 Harbor Lane, Suite #100
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55447
(612) 930-5258

Frank Kucia
President Hedstar, Inc.

Eight Degree Black Belt
Gold Historical Document
Registration #CM081357

International Licensor of
Chung Moo Quan
Chung Moo Doe
Oom Yung doe

1500 Year Old Royal Line of
Chung Moo
.
Dear Recipient:

This is an open letter to all newly approved
sublicense recipients and to the students of those
schools, where the sublicense will be displayed.

I have been asked to speck on behalf of all the
National licensors in order to commemorate this
occasion. I am National Instructor, Frank Kucia. I am a
National Instructor registered to the International
Chung Moo Association, as a 8th degree black belt
with a gold historical document. I am one of several
licensed to promote the use of Master John C. Kim's
name for schools of Chung Moo in the United States
and abroad. As part of that license, I am authorized to
sublicense certain individuals, who in my opinion, have
proven themselves capable of understanding and
passing down to others, the important values and ethics
set forth in the Chung Moo Constitution. As a National
Licensor, my primary concern is to see that no damage
comes to the name and reputation of Master John C.
Kim, and to see that values and principles of the Chung
Moo Constitution are upheld among all those who seek
the opportunity to handle school.

On behalf of myself, and all of the other
National Licensors, I want to congratulate the
sublicense recipients on their opportunity to handle
school, and on their decision to commit themselves to
the task of helping others understand and reach their
fullest potential through Chung Moo training.
More importantly, I want to congratulate you, because
you are one step closer to having the opportunity to
learn directly from Master John C. Kim. This is because
you have accepted the responsibility of passing down to
others the challenge of Chung moo training: The
Challenge to better themselves mentally; the challenge
to better themselves physically; and the challenge to
better themselves as members of the community. Your
commitment to the values and principles set down in
the Chung Moo constitution has earned, for you, this
opportunity.

Chung Moo has always stood for: respect for
oneself and respect for others; taking care of yourself
and caring for others; challenging yourself to be better,
and challenging others to better themselves. Chung
Moo has always stood for improving yourself mentally
and physically, and striving to achieve your fullest
potential. Chung Moo training means developing a
strong character and a deep respect for all life.
Reaching this understanding is important to the
individual, but helping others reach this understanding
is more important.

Through helping others realize their full
potential, one earns the respect, and the reputation,
and the values of a life that has not been wasted.

In my life, every question I have had could be
answered through a deeper understanding of myself and
others. Within the first month of my Chung Moo
training I had gained knowledge that I could
immediately use in my every day life.

Learning and putting into practice such values
as determination, patience, discipline and confidence
have helped me in my relationships with family, friends
and in business.

For most of you, the absence of water and food
for a few days would be difficult. You know you need
to feed your body. For over 1,500 years, so many
others in Chung Moo have researched the best way to
nourish your mind. Through your training you can built
your widow to benefit your daily life. True freedom
comes from being better. Freedom to choose the right
opportunity can bring success, respect and peace of
mind. But freedom can also be dangerous. Without the
right judgment necessaria to make balanced decisions,
the freedom of choice can bring pain, regret and guilt.
The strongest apology can never undo the pain caused
by poor judgement and bad decisions.

I have been fortunate in that I have had
someone whom I deeply respect, someone whose
judgment I trust, someone who cares about me and,
my future.

I respect Master John C. Kim deeply because I
care about myself deeply. Master John C. Kim has
spent 50 years to reach the knowledge of Chung Moo.
Without direction I could spend 500 years and not
reach one tenth of that knowledge. For me it would be
like being lost in a jungle without a guide. Perhaps by
chance I could find my way out. I do not want to take
that risk.

I welcome the advice and direction of someone I
respect. As I have benefitted from the understanding
and direction that I have received I have asked Master
John C. Kim if there was anything that I could do for
him. He only said that I should make myself better; that
would make him better. Understanding this has helped
me to understand my own direction in life. Every
answer is in Chung Moo, and my goal has always been
to receive direction and training from the best-Master
John C. Kim.

This is my wish, and this is your wish. By
understanding the principles and values set out in the
Chung Moo constitution, everyone will have a chance
to continue learning. If you forget the value of your life
and of those around you, and strive for only selfish
goals, no one will teach you; no one will follow you; no
one will respect you. You will not only lose the
opportunity to continue training in Chung Moo for
yourself, but also for all those who follow your
example. You have a choice: to accept this
commitment, or to take advantage of it for your
personal benefit. To seek opportunity to handle a
school of Chung Moo for your own selfish purpose will
not only hurt you, but it will hurt all those who are
seeking to improve their lives through Chung Moo
training.

Remember, you are not buying a school. No
one can buy Master John C. Kim's name or what it
stands for. No one can buy students. No one can buy
respect or position. Your investment is an investment in
your future, an investment in your life. Without respect,
without a chance for you continued learning, without
the principles and values of Chung Moo, all you have
left is an empty building.

If, as instructor, you take advantage of the
students and do not provide proper instruction and
training, it will be necessary, for the protection of the
students, that other instructors take over your
responsibilities, even if this means that they have to
come from other states and open schools right across
the street.

Everything necessary will be done to protect the
students and to see that everyone has an opportunity to
receive the best Chung Moo training possible.

Where your misconduct threatens the name and
reputation of Master John C. Kim, your sublicense will
be revoked and Master John C. Kim's name removed
from the school. These extreme measures are
necessary, because one bad school would not only hurt
the existing schools, but would hurt all those, who in
the future, had hoped to open schools themselves.

Higher belts are now stepping up to their next
opportunity. Chung Moo consultants will be traveling
throughout the country even overseas to continue their
training and broaden their understanding. They will also
be devoting their time to teaching those students who
seek to learn deeper Chung Moo movements and they
will devoting their time to supporting instructors who
are currently handling schools; as well as those who
seek to handle schools in the future. This guarantees
that only the best trained individuals will have an
opportunity to teach and preserve the line of Chung
Moo.

What this means for the 2nd degree instructors
is that they will have the opportunity to handle school
and earn the respect of those they teach. You must
understand that your personal training was for your
own benefit. During the time you are learning, only you
become better. Others may admire you for the patience
and determination which you exhibit in your individual
practice; but it is not until you use that knowledge to
make other's better that you begin to earn respect.

Master John C. Kim has given the use of his
name to Chung Moo schools, if the right seed of
respect is passed down. When you began training you
had a chance to learn how to build a right mind and a
strong body for yourself. You challenged yourself to
learn the importance of balancing when to do and when
not to do. Just as timing is important in movements; so
is it important in your life. The right decision at the
wrong time can be worse than no decision at all. The
knowledge you have gained through your Chung Moo
training will benefit you as long as you live.

Now is the time to balance your training for the
benefit of others. This is also for your benefit. As now
this knowledge will survive as long as those you teach
have life. These are the seeds of respect that are passed
down that you will benefit you, your family and those
you have taught for generations to come. By accepting
this responsibility, 2nd degree instructors, now more
than ever, will need the guidance of higher belts.

Under the Chung Moo Constitution, you are
limited in how far you can test a student, and likewise,
you are qualified to teach only that far. Recognizing
this, higher belt consultants have entered into a five
year agreement with each school to provide the
strength necessary for the school to test and teach up to
1st degree, or beyond. The purpose of this agreement is
to ensure that the students receive the best possible
training from the most qualified instructors.

Where the recipients of a sublicense fail to
follow by the Chung Moo Constitution and fail to
uphold the high standards of instruction represented by
the name of Master John C. Kim, the higher belt
consultant, under this agreement, will have the right
and obligation to withdraw his support from that
school. In addition, for the protection of the students,
this agreement will give the higher belt consultant the
right to actively place students, whose belt rank is
beyond the ability of that instructor to teach, into
programs of training outside of that school. In any case,
the students will have the right to seek the best
available instruction, no matter what. This is their
freedom of choice.

In providing this support, higher belts are not
employees, nor are they missionaries. They will be
providing consultancy under written agreement. Under
this agreement, the relationship will be that of
consultant. Under the Constitution, however, this
relationship will be one of mutual respect, concern and
support for all of the those who strive to follow the
principles and ideas of the Chung Moo Constitution. To
help all students, who may read this, to better
understand the content and purpose of this letter I am
sending along copies of the Chung Moo Constitution.
As required by your sublicense agreement you must
display three copies in the school at all times.

It is diffiCULT in one letter to pass to you all
that I understand about Chung Moo. Like you, I am
still learning. Everyone brings their own understanding
to what they learn. For yourselves, start with reading
the Chung Moo Constitution and flyers and literature
that are available in school and build for yourself your
own knowledge and understanding.

In closing, all National Licensors congratulate
you on your opportunity, and challenge you to earn for
yourself the respect of the students; and the respect of
the community.

Signed
Frank Kucia
National Instructor
8th Degree Black Belt

Pavlov

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Oct 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/21/96

to

Good. They managed to get all their brainwash-bullcrap condensed into
one document, suitable for framing.

What a pathetic bunch of psychopaths.

SET42

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Oct 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/21/96

to

Question for red...@jupiter.com (Pavlov)

And what, pray tell, do you see as particularly psychopathic about this
letter? I did not see anything very strange about it except Russell
Delbert Johnson's diffiCULTy with his keyboarding skills.

SET

John Lee

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Oct 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/22/96

to

Where should I start?

This is an open letter to all newly approved
sublicense recipients and to the students of those
schools, where the sublicense will be displayed.

I have been asked to speck on behalf of all the
National licensors in order to commemorate this
occasion. I am National Instructor, Frank Kucia. I am a
National Instructor registered to the International
Chung Moo Association, as a 8th degree black belt
with a gold historical document.

I am one of several
licensed to promote the use of Master John C. Kim's
name for schools of Chung Moo in the United States

and abroad...As a National

Licensor, my primary concern is to see that no damage
comes to the name and reputation of Master John C.
Kim, and to see that values and principles of the Chung
Moo Constitution are upheld among all those who seek
the opportunity to handle school.

<...and all of you have done a grand job of seeing "that no damage comes
to the name and reputation of Master John C. Kim.">

On behalf of myself, and all of the other
National Licensors, I want to congratulate the
sublicense recipients on their opportunity to handle
school, and on their decision to commit themselves to
the task of helping others understand and reach their
fullest potential through Chung Moo training.
More importantly, I want to congratulate you, because
you are one step closer to having the opportunity to

learn directly from Master John C. Kim...

...Reaching this understanding is important to the

individual, but helping others reach this understanding
is more important.

<Yeah, reaching is right...reaching right into the pocketbooks of the
dupes who are buying into this "sublicense.">

Through helping others realize their full
potential, one earns the respect, and the reputation,
and the values of a life that has not been wasted.

<Gee, you're starting to sound like a used car salesman.>

...Learning and putting into practice such values

as determination, patience, discipline and confidence
have helped me in my relationships with family, friends
and in business.

For most of you, the absence of water and food
for a few days would be difficult. You know you need
to feed your body.

For over 1,500 years, so many
others in Chung Moo have researched the best way to
nourish your mind.

Through your training you can built
your widow to benefit your daily life. True freedom
comes from being better. Freedom to choose the right
opportunity can bring success, respect and peace of
mind. But freedom can also be dangerous. Without the
right judgment necessaria to make balanced decisions,
the freedom of choice can bring pain, regret and guilt.

<Read: the "right" decision is to stay in CMD and commit your time and
money to "owning" a school or you will be ridden with pain, regret and
guilt for the rest of your life. Don't believe it. Life after CMD is
great. You can get whatever CMD has to offer and more if you leave. You
don't even have to leave. Try another art out on the sly for 6 months and
make your decision then.>

The strongest apology can never undo the pain caused
by poor judgement and bad decisions.

I have been fortunate in that I have had
someone whom I deeply respect, someone whose
judgment I trust, someone who cares about me and,
my future.

I respect Master John C. Kim deeply because I
care about myself deeply. Master John C. Kim has
spent 50 years to reach the knowledge of Chung Moo.
Without direction I could spend 500 years and not
reach one tenth of that knowledge. For me it would be
like being lost in a jungle without a guide. Perhaps by
chance I could find my way out. I do not want to take
that risk.

...By understanding the principles and values set out in the

Chung Moo constitution, everyone will have a chance
to continue learning.

<Gee, maybe you all could post a copy of the Chung Moo constitution on the
Internet?>

If you forget the value of your life
and of those around you, and strive for only selfish
goals, no one will teach you; no one will follow you; no
one will respect you.

You will not only lose the
opportunity to continue training in Chung Moo for
yourself, but also for all those who follow your
example. You have a choice: to accept this
commitment, or to take advantage of it for your
personal benefit. To seek opportunity to handle a
school of Chung Moo for your own selfish purpose will
not only hurt you, but it will hurt all those who are
seeking to improve their lives through Chung Moo
training.

Remember, you are not buying a school. No
one can buy Master John C. Kim's name or what it
stands for. No one can buy students. No one can buy
respect or position. Your investment is an investment in
your future, an investment in your life. Without respect,
without a chance for you continued learning, without
the principles and values of Chung Moo, all you have
left is an empty building.

If, as instructor, you take advantage of the
students and do not provide proper instruction and
training, it will be necessary, for the protection of the
students, that other instructors take over your
responsibilities, even if this means that they have to
come from other states and open schools right across
the street.

<Aha, threatening to take away their "opportunity?" Don't believe it.
There are no instructors "waiting in the wings" to start a school. They
are stretching themselves thin as it is. Even if there were the manpower,
it is no "opportunity," except to "Headstar" or "IMAP" or "Tigerlilly" or
some other corporate name they've thought up.>

Everything necessary will be done to protect the
students and to see that everyone has an opportunity to
receive the best Chung Moo training possible.

...You challenged yourself to

learn the importance of balancing when to do and when
not to do. Just as timing is important in movements; so
is it important in your life. The right decision at the
wrong time can be worse than no decision at all. The
knowledge you have gained through your Chung Moo
training will benefit you as long as you live.

Now is the time to balance your training for the
benefit of others. This is also for your benefit. As now
this knowledge will survive as long as those you teach
have life. These are the seeds of respect that are passed
down that you will benefit you, your family and those
you have taught for generations to come. By accepting
this responsibility, 2nd degree instructors, now more
than ever, will need the guidance of higher belts.

Under the Chung Moo Constitution, you are
limited in how far you can test a student, and likewise,
you are qualified to teach only that far. Recognizing
this, higher belt consultants have entered into a five
year agreement with each school to provide the
strength necessary for the school to test and teach up to
1st degree, or beyond. The purpose of this agreement is
to ensure that the students receive the best possible
training from the most qualified instructors.

...In any case,

the students will have the right to seek the best
available instruction, no matter what. This is their
freedom of choice.

In providing this support, higher belts are not

employees, nor are they missionaries...

It is diffiCULT in one letter to pass to you all
that I understand about Chung Moo. Like you, I am
still learning. Everyone brings their own understanding
to what they learn. For yourselves, start with reading
the Chung Moo Constitution and flyers and literature
that are available in school and build for yourself your
own knowledge and understanding.

In closing, all National Licensors congratulate
you on your opportunity, and challenge you to earn for
yourself the respect of the students; and the respect of
the community.

Signed
Frank Kucia
INDICTED national instructor
8th Degree Black Belt

To all you 2nd degree CMD instructors out there: DON'T SIGN UNTIL YOU HAVE
THE CONTRACT REVIEWED. If you decide to stay in CMD, you will get just as
many "corrections" as anyone else if you don't become an "owner" or
"sublicensor" or whatever they call it nowadays.

I strongly suggest that you explore other training options. I highly doubt
that you will ever get to the promised land of medical miracles and
independent wealth that you have been promised. I never saw a glimpse of
any of it. All I ever heard was talk. They try to head this off by saying
you must have "faith." I bought into this for a long time, but I finally
woke up. I hope that at least some of you will also.

--John Lee

Pavlov

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Oct 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/22/96

to

se...@aol.com (SET42) wrote:

>Question for red...@jupiter.com (Pavlov)
>
>And what, pray tell, do you see as particularly psychopathic about this
>letter? I did not see anything very strange about it except Russell
>Delbert Johnson's diffiCULTy with his keyboarding skills.
>
>SET

Ok. Imagine you've been training full-force for the last 2 hours.
Now, you're holding a T-position 1" off the ground while they YELL
this crap at you: "Your life is nothing without CMD, money is not
important, spend it on more training. Your family is not important
unless you have the good health of mind and body to take care of them.
Your job is not important....."

Go back and read it again. If you don't see anything wrong with it,
you're a CMD'er.

MokJong

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Oct 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/22/96

to

hell-o all; once again cmq/d is trying hard to avoid all of questions of
lineage(name of past cmq/d masters and names of john c kim teachers),by
redirecting us with nonsense like this.CMQ/D are JUNK SHOPS period.where
is this cmq asian headquarters(as stated on this old i.d. membership
card---wnat a copy of it for proof? give me a address or a fax
number)champion of all asia??again NO PROOF,registered 9th black belt to
asia,again where the proof.simple answer to these, of many other questions
is THERE IS NO PROOF except cmq/d ARE BULL---T,PURE JUNK SHOPS,a bunch of
DINGES stealing other moves from real martial arts.once again where the
lineage???who taught kim??? Sounds like NOBODY did,john c kim slicked this
art (made the art up)together and is scamming many to live and pay for
JUNK!!!!want a copy of this i.d membership card which states that the
above name is registered to the cmq organization,to the asian cmq
headquarters,signed by john c kim,champion of all asia,registered 9th
black belt of asia???i will fax you a copy or send you a disk??I NEVER SAW
CMQ/D IN ANY MAJOR TOURNAMENT(IN MARTIAL ARTS)why because the scam would
be exposed.PURE JUNK. tony k mok...@aol.com hurry all to kinos.

G204

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Oct 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/23/96

to

>Ok. Imagine you've been training full-force for the last 2 hours.
>Now, you're holding a T-position 1" off the ground while they YELL
>this crap at you: "Your life is nothing without CMD, money is not
>important, spend it on more training. Your family is not important
>unless you have the good health of mind and body to take care of them.
>Your job is not important....."

>Go back and read it again. If you don't see anything wrong with it,
>you're a CMD'er.

I don't see anyrthing wrong in the F. Kucia letter and I am not a CMD'er.
I do see that you and J. Lee really have an axe to grind. I am sorry that
you had bad experiences.

>>Your family is not important
>>unless you have the good health of mind and body to take care of them

Basically this is true but poorly worded.

MokJong

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Oct 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/23/96

to

hi all-did you see how difficult was typed??diffiCULT. Hmmmmmmm, make you
all wonder. tony k mok...@aol.com p.s. what is a gold historical
document???where is this registered at???? just more proof of cmq/d's
deception.

Christopher Aumann

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Oct 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/23/96

to

>Ok. Imagine you've been training full-force for the last 2 hours.
>Now, you're holding a T-position 1" off the ground while they YELL
>this crap at you: "Your life is nothing without CMD, money is not
>important, spend it on more training. Your family is not important
>unless you have the good health of mind and body to take care of them.
>Your job is not important....."

This is probably the best description I've seen of what it's like to
train at Chung Moo...

G204

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Oct 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/23/96

to

>hell-o all; once again cmq/d is trying hard to avoid all of questions of
>lineage(name of past cmq/d masters and names of john c kim teachers),by

>redirecting us with nonsense like this......

From what I read
1. The article was posted by R.D. Johnson who obviously is not part of
CMQ(D)
2. It was not addressed or redirected to "us" unless you want to purchase
a CMQ(D) franchise license.
3. There have not been any responses by CMQ(D) about their lineage..well,
maybe instead of ranting and raving, using the worst grammar I have
ever read and typing badly, you should, in the spirit of martial
arts, talk directly to someone in CMQ(D) who could answer your questions.
4. Take a tranquilzer, have a beer, sing happy songs...in other words,
chill out man before you have a stroke.

SET42

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Oct 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/24/96

to

>hi all-did you see how difficult was typed??diffiCULT. Hmmmmmmm, make you
>all wonder. tony k

No, Tony, it didn't make me wonder. Get a clue. Russell Delbert Johnson
is the one who typed the letter in the post, and he seems bent on stooping
as low as he can to make people who believe everything they read think
there's something sinister going on. Seems it's working.....

SET

G204

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Oct 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/24/96

to

1. >what is a gold historical document???

> where is this registered at????

If you don't know what a gold historical document is, how do you know
that is has to be registered? If it is registered, one
would think that it probably is not registered with the local TKD
organization ...DUH.

3. >just more proof of cmq/d's deception.
No, this paranoid reasoning is just more proof of a need for manditory
valium and a strong argument for standarized elementary
education.

G204

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Oct 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/24/96

to

>>Ok. Imagine you've been training full-force for the last 2 hours.
>>Now, you're holding a T-position 1" off the ground while they YELL
>>this crap at you: "Your life is nothing without CMD, money is not
>>important, spend it on more training. Your family is not important

>>Your job is not important....."

>This is probably the best description I've seen of what it's like to
train at Chung Moo...

Pretty good description of what we experienced at boot camp too. I am not
sure what this post has to do with the F. Kucia article.

ps. My personal trainer runs me about $85-100 dollars per hour. My tennis
pro about the same. If you had developed your endurance to where you could
train full force for 2 hours, I assume with an instructor (and still train
more), maybe you got full value for your money.

Brad Webb

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Oct 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/24/96

to

He's only putting out info that many other "Martial Artists"
in other places have already gathered.
He just has a much bigger mental stake in this than I or other
MA out here. Most of us avoided the CMD(Q) like the plague.
Hell I won't recommend them to anyone, yet won't slam them
either. It's not seeking perfection of character.

Brad.

--
Brad Webb, HEY NEW EMAIL ADDRESS -->> bwe...@airmail.net
or reply to:erw...@rwasic33.aud.alcatel.com (wrchh187 bounces)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Japan Shotokan Karate, Dallas,TX. Nortel, Inc. (214)684-1737
(214) 231-4922 Me represent NT? I think not.
Seek perfection of character. Don't make them laugh so hard.

Rob Morton

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Oct 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/24/96

to

SET42 (se...@aol.com) wrote:
:
: I agree that the situation you have described is crap. In my five years
: of CMD training, however, I have never seen or heard anything remotely
: resembling this situation, and I have trained at more than one school in
: more than one area.

Since you know so much of CMD can you answer the oft-asked but never
answered questions about the aikido and tai chi lineages of CMD?

--

Rob Morton
IBM UK Labs, Hursley
Tel - 01962-818756
"Our chief weapons are 'who', 'ps -aux', 'kill -9', and a
fanatical devotion to 'reboot -q'"

MokJong

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Oct 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/24/96

to

hi all-i speak like john c kim,like letter,all school to run,i say i have
bad english(but all letter i got from cmq/d instructors and student speak
with broken english.AGAIN,CMQ/D AVOID THE QUESTIONS,WHERE IS CMQ/D
LINEAGE???WHO ARE THE PAST MASTERS AND TEACHERS OF JOHN C KIM????not to
answer these question ARE PROOF OF CMQ/D DECEPTION.so all you cmq/d
students and instruction,here your chance to answer and clear the airBY
GIVING ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTION.WHAT DO YOU(CMQ/D) TRYING TO
HIDE????when i asked to test your skills(either in push hands or in a
major tournament,in martial arts)cmq/d chicken out and say that i'm
threating them,why???because cmq/d is PURE JUNK.maybe we should rename the
art JUNK MOO QUAN?????????again proof is here,when cmq/d rediercts the
mass from answering the question.i personally wrote jeff grieve and other
JUNK MOO QUAN INSTRUCTORS AND GUESS WHAT,NOTHING WAS ANSWERED BUT THREATS
TO ME AND THEY KEEP AVIODING THE POINT.WHO'S JOHN C KIM TEACHERS,CMQ/D
LINEAGE,HISTORY,AND WHERE IS THE ASIAN CMQ/D'S HEADQUARTERS????
TONY K. MOK...@AOL.COM

Pavlov

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Oct 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/24/96

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se...@aol.com (SET42) wrote:

>red...@jupiter.com (Pavlov) writes:
>>Ok. Imagine you've been training full-force for the last 2 hours.
>>Now, you're holding a T-position 1" off the ground while they YELL
>>this crap at you: "Your life is nothing without CMD, money is not
>>important, spend it on more training. Your family is not important

>>unless you have the good health of mind and body to take care of them.

>>Your job is not important....."
>

>I agree that the situation you have described is crap. In my five years
>of CMD training, however, I have never seen or heard anything remotely
>resembling this situation, and I have trained at more than one school in
>more than one area.
>

>Every CMD instructor I know stresses the importance of family and
>community. Your family _is_ important, and that is why it is important to
>take care of yourself, so you can "have the good health of mind and body

>to take care of them."
>

>CMD schools are actively involved in their communities, raising money for
>D.A.R.E. to educate children against the dangers of drugs and violence,
>volunteering to help clean up their communities, participating in Town
>Days, and many other community service activities.
>
>You are so blinded by your own agenda that you cannot see, or will not
>see, anything but your own twisted perceptions. Because you have had a
>negative experience, everything having to do with CMD "must" be
>ill-intended or underhanded, and if anyone disagrees with you it is
>because they are either suckers, or seeking to take advantage of others.
>What a crock. Leave that sort of logic to Tony K.
>
>SET
>

Actually, if you don't consider a destructive cult to be something
which should be taken seriously, that's your own choice and opinion.
However, those of us who have first hand experience don't need to
"twist" our "perceptions." And there's no "agenda."

Why do our stories, from different schools all over the US, match
perfectly. CMD cultivates a method for deception and abuse, plain and
simple. No interpretation necessary.

John Lee

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Oct 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/24/96

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g2...@aol.com (G204) wrote:
>
>snip

>3. There have not been any responses by CMQ(D) about their lineage..well,
>maybe instead of ranting and raving, using the worst grammar I have
>ever read and typing badly, you should, in the spirit of martial
>arts, talk directly to someone in CMQ(D) who could answer your questions.

G204 (are you related to R2D2?), maybe YOU should look past bad grammar
and composition to see the content of the message. I was in CMD. CMD has
no lineage except as a figment of JCK's imagination. It seems strange to
me that you should use the same arguments a CMD-trained individual would
use...ie: divert attention from the message by criticizing something
irrelevant. But of course, you are a well-meaning bystander who is
championing the innocent CMD's cause. In any case, anyone wanting lessons
in ranting and raving using poor English should go to the likes of Sante
Furio and Tom McGee. Unfortunately, these men are otherwise occupied right
now.

--John Lee

MokJong

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Oct 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/24/96

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hi all,once again cmq/d are avioding the question,my logic is this,any
true martial art has lineage and history.cmq/d hasn't produce one soild
lead or text of cmq/d history and lineage.example is tae kyon is an old
korean kicking art,officially classified as Intangible Cultural Asset #76
by the government of South Korea.this information comes from black belt
november 1988 page#48 first paragraph.Uechiryu Karate Do by George E
Mattson maps out the total lineage and history of Uechiryu.Page #20 give
the origin of the major asspects of the Uechiryu Karate katas,pages #21
and #22 give the dates,teachers of Uechiryu Karate Do.Wing Chun Gung Fu in
Hong Kong under Yip Man is documented in many book,one such book in Wing
Chun Kung Fu by J.Yimm Lee, on page #13 there is a breif history of wing
chun."According to legend,wing chun was founded by a woman,Yim Wing
Chun...."it also traced the lineage from Yim Wing Chun to the author
J.YIMM LEE.Again any legitimate martial art has openly stated and prove
its history and lineage(teacher to teacher)THERE ARE NO SECERTS,but cmq/d
DOESN'T HAVE ANY PROOF,because these questions are not being
answerd.WHY??Tae Kyon has a headquarters in South Korea,Uechiryu Karate DO
has a headquarters on Okinawa,Wing Chun Gung Fu has a headquarters in
Hong Kong.BUT cmq/d ??????Again here cmq/d chance to set the record
straight.By not answering these questions IS proof of cmq/d deceptions.
mok...@aol.com tony k p.s. why don't the cmq/d use their's name on
the net instead of hiding their's id???????

mok...@aol.com

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Oct 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/24/96

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hi all. i just received another letter from a cmq/d-er. Again they are
avioding the questions,instead nhere is his/her advice"Take
tranquilzer,have a beer,sing happy songs...in other words,chill out man
before you have a stroke".This is great advice fron those who support and
rise funds for D.A.R.E.Gangs in Chicago rise funds for the/theirs'
communiteis just like the gangsters of the Al Capone era ,just like
cmq/d.This is the Hide their's true intentions. The Mafia would support
the chuch, and in China's History the "tongs" would support their's
communities, too!!Again more proof of the cmq/d deception.I had many sifus
and teachers of many systems come to visit my gym,and we would test are
skills,in the proper manner.We would(and still do )share our "arts" with
each others.I never saw a book of cmq/d,never seen cmq/d in any martial
art tournament,WHY???What is cmq/d HIDING???The TRUTH MUST BE HARD to
HANDLE,as for the best cmq/d can come up with is "Take a tranquilzer,have
a beer..."Maybe the D.A.R.E. organization would be interested in the cmq/d
advice,DO DRUGS!!!!!!!Boxing has recorded history,wrestling has a recorded
history,BUT cmq/d????Still no REAL ANSWERS,OTHER THAN TAKE A
TRANQUILZER,HAVE A BEER,THAT A SIGN THAT MY POST IS REALLY GETTING TO THE
CORD OF THE CMQ/D DECEPTION!!!Again who taught John C Kim???What the
history of cmq/d????Why do the cmq/d-er hide their's identies,use real
names.What are you afraid of???Why don't cmq/d compete in martail art
tournaments???What are you afraid of??? mok...@aol.com tony k

Rob Morton

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Oct 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/24/96

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G204 (g2...@aol.com) wrote:
: 3. There have not been any responses by CMQ(D) about their lineage..well,

: maybe instead of ranting and raving, using the worst grammar I have
: ever read and typing badly, you should, in the spirit of martial
: arts, talk directly to someone in CMQ(D) who could answer your questions.

I assure you that neither Julian Frost nor I have problems with grammar
or spelling and yet neither of us has received any response from the
numerous CMQ(D) apologists in this newsgroup to our repeated and
polite requests for information regarding CMQ(D)'s aikido and tai ji
quan lineages.

SET42

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Oct 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/24/96

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SET

Speaking of Tony K., has anyone seen the "Ode to Tony K."? I've heard
it's rather funny. Haven't actually seen it, though.

Christopher Aumann

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Oct 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/25/96

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>CMD schools are actively involved in their communities, raising money for
>D.A.R.E. to educate children against the dangers of drugs and violence,
>volunteering to help clean up their communities, participating in Town
>Days, and many other community service activities.

Did you know DARE is corrupt? There was an article in some Boston
newspaper that showed many police departments diverted money from the
drug programs for their own purposes. Among the cities listed were
Stoneham and Needham (and some others, I forget). Anyways, Chung Moo
Doe did a DARE fundraiser for both these towns.

Regardless of that, just because an organization does community
service does not make it a lamb of innocence. Chung Moo Doe
advertises a whole slew of great ideals- strong mind, healthy body,
improved communication etc. These ideals are what lures students to
the schools in the first place and what they use to brainwash students
into staying there.

Chung Moo Doe is a scam and an illusion. The community service and
the "family values" are just used to maintain that illusion. The
bottom line is that they are after your $.

I ask you this, SE...@aol.com, in your 5 years of training, how many
thousands of dollars did you contribute to the John C Kim fund? Make
sure you include all the hidden costs, like test fees, seminars,
national and regional instructor lessons, and so on.

John Lee

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Oct 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/25/96

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mok...@aol.com wrote:
>Gangs in Chicago rise funds for the/theirs'
>communiteis just like the gangsters of the Al Capone era ,just like
>cmq/d.This is the Hide their's true intentions. The Mafia would support
>the chuch, and in China's History the "tongs" would support their's
>communities, too!!Again more proof of the cmq/d deception.

Isn't it interesting that Al Capone went to jail on income tax
evasion and what destroyed his defense were some coded books?

>..The TRUTH MUST BE HARD to

>HANDLE,as for the best cmq/d can come up with is "Take a tranquilzer,have
>a beer..."Maybe the D.A.R.E. organization would be interested in the cmq/d
>advice,DO DRUGS!!!!!!!Boxing has recorded history,wrestling has a recorded
>history,BUT cmq/d????Still no REAL ANSWERS,OTHER THAN TAKE A
>TRANQUILZER,HAVE A BEER,THAT A SIGN THAT MY POST IS REALLY GETTING TO THE
>CORD OF THE CMQ/D DECEPTION!!!

I can just imagine the CMD group lessons with the instructors
saying things like: "They're just jealous;" "They've lost their
minds;" "They're on drugs." I ask all those still involved with
CMD: does what they say answer our questions, or are they just
trying to divert attention away from the truth? I ignored the
truth for many years but I want all of you to look at what
objectively is going on in your school. Yes, some instructors can
be very fair and nice, but what about the men they answer to? Do
you respect these men for what they can teach you or just fear
them? Has the cost of your training escalated geometrically as
your training has progressed? Are they asking you to get a second
job or put yourself in futher debt? Are they saying a relatively
small investment now (of a few hundred or thousand dollars) will
pay back in the future with eternal health and happiness?

>Again who taught John C Kim???What the
>history of cmq/d????Why do the cmq/d-er hide their's identies,use real
>names.What are you afraid of???Why don't cmq/d compete in martail art
>tournaments???What are you afraid of??? mok...@aol.com tony k

JCK was supposedly taught by a guy named Wang Po, whoever he was.
The first master of CMD was supposedly master Bagwa, who was so
named because, when he practiced his unique form, his breathing
sounded like "BAAGWAAAA." He lived approximately 1500 years ago and
his original martial art, "Bagwa" was renamed "goong bu" which
modern kung fu is originated from. I think what they're afraid of
is being laughed at if they tell this story to anyone not in CMD.
Of course, they do not enter into tournaments because their skills
are too deadly...or at least that's what I was told.

--John Lee

Pavlov

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Oct 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/25/96

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John Lee <wum...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Of course, they do not enter into tournaments because their skills
>are too deadly...or at least that's what I was told.
>
>--John Lee
>

I had forgotten about that one. Yes, they do teach that CMD is too
"mean," and that tournament judges do not "take kindly to hauling dead
bodies off the mat."

There was a CMD tournament while I was training. Of course, as with
every tournament, there were entry fees. That's normal. However,
every single person that went from our school came back with a trophy,
and there was no sparring!!! Were we really just THAT GOOD?

Eric Berge

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Oct 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/25/96

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In Article<54qkrv$2...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, <wum...@ix.netcom.com>
writes:

> JCK was supposedly taught by a guy named Wang Po, whoever he was.

Wasn't he that monk with catarcts on the TV show?

Eric