Bruce Lee sucked
sa...@webtv.net
him--charisma, looks, incredible speed--but a fighter he was not.
He was merely a popular action movie star (his movies were
great), like Van Damme or Jackie Chan. And, like them, he would have
gotten his ass pounded in a real fight.
RYouBoard
"Bruce Lee considered himself a martial artist first and an actor second."
Bruce was challenged by many martial artists at his time. And he was able to
beat them. This proved that he was at least a good martial artist with some
skill. Second, he studied many arts including jiu-jitsu, judo, and the like.
His books talk a lot about grappling and submission holds. It's sad that he is
not still living to be able to prove this to many skeptics among us. Perhaps
he would be beaten by some younger martial artist. But to claim that he sucked
is not credible. He was able to back himself up by beating many people, on the
streets, in tournaments and demonstrations.
John Carlo
cheating on his wife
Totoro
which Bruce possesses. And more importantly, the effective use of "ki" (or
"qi") makes him so much better compared to other people. It's probabaly
something that you don't understand but that doesn't matter since most
people who know martial arts are not able to grasp that idea.
chris . wrote in message
<17612-36...@newsd-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Get real people. Bruce Lee was an actor. The guy weighed a big 100 lbs.
He would not stand a chance in todays martial arts. The fairly new
discovery that submission arts dominate all the traditional chinese and
japanese martial arts should be a big eye opener for you. Dont get me
wrong he was great role model for kids in the 70's. But with todays
fighting styles he would be broken quick.
sa...@webtv.net
Bruce Lee never fought anybody for real. The guy weighed 130 lbs., any
competent grappler, even back then, would have bitch-slapped him.
kenp...@my-dejanews.com
tournaments. Surely you will agree that it is very easy to defeat someone in
a "demonstratin." Bruce Lee really never fought any high caliber martial
artists. His fight with Wong Jack Man was a draw and he did have a few street
fights as a kid in Hong Kong, but, hey, didn't we all have a few fights as
kids?
In article <19981003220018...@ng60.aol.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Magnulus
>
> RYBourd: What tournaments and contests are you talking about?
>Bruce Lee never fought anybody for real. The guy weighed 130 lbs., any
>competent grappler, even back then, would have bitch-slapped him.
What does weight have to do with his fighting ability?
Lee too knew some grappling techniques. He did not believe that grappling
should dominate ones art, however. A fast biu jee (thrusting fingers) could be
enough to stop a grappler who is trying to get on you. Aimed at the throat or
eyes, it can cause blindness, pain, or death. They don't allow that move in
the UFC, though. Neither do they allow you to try and rip out your opponents
gonads, or for you to carry improvised weapons into the octagon. Very little
about the UFC resembles reality.
Lee fought several people "for real". Read any good Lee biography, and you
will see that he was in several real fights. I think Lee did not do
tournaments, because he didn't like following any rules. He was also very busy
with everything else in his life. There's an apocryphal story of a Tai Chi
player challenging Lee to push his arm, to make him move, and Lee hits him on
the head, and the guy falls over.
Scientific One
> RYBourd: What tournaments and contests are you talking about?
>Bruce Lee never fought anybody for real. The guy weighed 130 lbs., any
>competent grappler, even back then, would have bitch-slapped him.
>
Everyone here disrespecting a man who dedicated his life to the
martial arts are full of crap. None of you trained with Lee (that I
know of), so how would you know whether he was a bitch or not. He
actually had a lot of martial arts experience, and created his own
matial arts. Which I'm sure is a hell of a lot more than you can say
for yourselves. Do a little studying on the guy before you make any
more wack-ass statements.
- Scientific
Totoro
on him. And I am sure none of you knows how his Wing-Chun instructor, Mr.
Yip, commented on him.
And referring to Sabai, who dare not to post his response here but only to
my email, I will quote your reply here.
>The effective use of "Ki"??? Excuse me...OK, now I've
>finished laughing...Man, are you living in a fantasy world! You must
>be an Aikidoist! Try using your Ki "power" against a boxer or >skilled
grappler, and you'll be spitting out your teeth!
> I can't believe how naive some of you people that post in
>this NG are! Bruce Lee was a 130 lb pencil necked geek; I have >bowel
movements that weigh more than he did!
"Ki" is NOT, I repeat, does not mean power (again, plz do some more
research). And as a competent fighter like Bruce, he doesn't use power, but
"ki" and "jing".
Scientific One wrote in message <36179ed9....@news.gate.net>...
Ilias
sa...@webtv.net wrote:
> RYBourd: What tournaments and contests are you talking about?
> Bruce Lee never fought anybody for real. The guy weighed 130 lbs., any
> competent grappler, even back then, would have bitch-slapped him.
If you think that fighting in the tournaments and winning is the utmost
manifestation of martial skill, then you're ignorant.
If you think that Bruce never fought 'anyone for real' you're merely
clueless.
if you think that body weight is such an important factor then you're in
the dark.
Finally, if you think that a competent grappler will 'bitch-slap' a
competent striker then you have seen too many ucf matches.
Get real.
Ilias
Ilias
let the guy do some research first and talk later....
Ilias
Magnulus wrote:
> >
> > RYBourd: What tournaments and contests are you talking about?
> >Bruce Lee never fought anybody for real. The guy weighed 130 lbs., any
> >competent grappler, even back then, would have bitch-slapped him.
>
Ilias
kenp...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Bruce Lee never fought in
> tournaments. Surely you will agree that it is very easy to defeat someone in
> a "demonstratin." Bruce Lee really never fought any high caliber martial
> artists. His fight with Wong Jack Man was a draw and he did have a few street
> fights as a kid in Hong Kong, but, hey, didn't we all have a few fights as
> kids?
yeah, right....
I find it so annoying when people believe that Bruce was primarily an actor and
incompetent as a martial artist but hey, it happens....
Mr Kenpo, I suggest you do some serious reading/research first and then come back
here and enlighten the rest of us; read whatever you can find about the guy and try
to find people who knew him and worked out with him....
I remember Jesse Glover posting here a while ago; De Mille too (via Jay); you can
search dejanews for the original posts.
Ilias
Peter Sampogna
> The fairly new
> discovery that submission arts dominate all the traditional chinese and
> japanese martial arts should be a big eye opener for you.
how are you determining that Chinese and Japanese arts ar dominated by submission?
Although it has been awhile since I 've been in chemistry lab. I believe that
conclusions were drawn after a well controled study. Secondly How have you determined a
lack of submission techiques in the above arts. Is Kung Fu just striking and Japanese
Jui Jitsu? What about Aikido and Judo ? I think generalizing is unfair to all parties
involved. Karate (origins in Okinawa) has grappling. we cannot determine which is a
dominating art, only the quality of the practitioner.
Pete "wants to love everyone" Sampogna
d...@wingchun.com
: RYBourd: What tournaments and contests are you talking about?
: Bruce Lee never fought anybody for real. The guy weighed 130 lbs., any
: competent grappler, even back then, would have bitch-slapped him.
Yeah Yeah. Yadda Yadda. Where were you when he was alive tough guy?
--
David Williams mailto:d...@wingchun.com
Planet Wing Chun http://www.wingchun.com/
Bay Area Wing Chun Association http://www.thesphere.com/SJWC
kenp...@my-dejanews.com
> A fast biu jee (thrusting fingers) could be
> enough to stop a grappler who is trying to get on you.<
Anyone can poke in the eye and tear at gonads. Bruce Lee would have been
taken to the ground in a New York second and the fight would have been over
in two New York seconds. Don't you think that skilled grapplers are wise to
the Three Stooges finger in the eye?
> Very little
> about the UFC resembles reality.>
Teeth flying across the arena and blood all the place and busted bones seems
pretty real to me.
> Lee fought several people "for real". Read any good Lee biography, and you
> will see that he was in several real fights. I think Lee did not do
> tournaments, because he didn't like following any rules.<
Yeah, right. Bruce Lee didn't enter tournaments because he didn't think he
was a slam dunk winner. Stop making excuses for the guy.
> He was also very busy with everything else in his life.<
What an absurd statement. Bruce Lee showed up at the Long Beach
Internationals in 1964. He stood around all weekend and watched everyone
else fight. He had time to put on a demonstration of his art. If he had
time to do all that, then he had time to step into the ring and prove
himself. Hey, we're all busy with life, right?
kenp...@my-dejanews.com
> Everyone here disrespecting a man who dedicated his life to the
> martial arts are full of crap.<<
Dedicated his life to the martial arts? Since when? Teaching a handful of
celebrities at $250 an hour? The only thing Bruce Lee ever dedicated himself
to was Bruce Lee. Give us all a break.
d...@wingchun.com
: I agree completely. Lee had many things going for
Wow. You are just soooo right. So informed. So well read.
Dazzle us more with your obvious brilliance.
Not!
d...@wingchun.com
: --WebTV-Mail-500607793-3242
: Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
: Get real people. Bruce Lee was an actor. The guy weighed a big 100 lbs.
: He would not stand a chance in todays martial arts. The fairly new
: discovery that submission arts dominate all the traditional chinese and
: japanese martial arts should be a big eye opener for you. Dont get me
It is. You are just so informed. Next can you explain about all
the traditional Chinese and Japanese arts and where these
"submission" arts derive from?
For example what do the initials JJ in both BJJ and GJJ STAND FOR?
Hello? McFly?
: wrong he was great role model for kids in the 70's. But with todays
: fighting styles he would be broken quick.
Of course, you are again SOOOOOOOO right. Bruce was known if nothing
else for being static, rigid and dogmatic in his training.
He never had even HEARD of grappling or submission or joint locks
or chokes. Never read about them, never worked out with people who
practiced them, never wrote about em either.
I'm sure his time with guys like Wally Jay, Hayward Nishioka, Gene LeBelle
etc. were just illusion.
I'm sure I just imagined those commentaries on submissions in the
Tao of JKD.
Oh yeah Larry Hartsell, one of his direct students must not be doing
grappling and submissions either. My mistake. Hasn't been doing so
for over 20 years. How could I be so confused?
Oh, thats right. I *READ*. I research. I know of what I speak.
Whereas you just watch the UFC and Jerry Springer.
Nevermind.
Ian McDowell
rm-a'ers long ago learned to killfile any posts with "Bruce Lee" in the
subject line, or at least don't read them. Still, here I am contributing
to it, so I can't complain _too_ much (I'd quote Emerson's life about
"foolish consistency," but NEXT STOP, WONDERLAND cured me of that for a
while).
Bruce Lee was from almost all accounts quite a brawler as a youngster,
regularly getting into streetfights from late childhood until his growing
propensity for violence led to his being packed off to America at the age
of 18 (his parents deciding to do so because the authorities had
officially complained, and were threatening to serious prosecution). Yes,
he was the son of a well-known actor, and an actor himself from very early
childhood (he was a movie star long before he was a martial artist, making
20 films in the years between his 6th and 18th birthdays), who very
quickly developed a screen persona of a "clever, capable short-tempered
little ruffian who specialized in the pout, the stare, and the slow burn"
(Ric Meyers, MARTIAL ARTS MOVIES: FROM BRUCE LEE TO THE NINJAS). This
image, however, was from all accounts not too far from the real Lee Siu
Lung (his Cantonese screen name); one studio executive remembered as being
"a vicious little thug," and his brother Robert later said that he
averaged two fights a day. While his family was well-off, judging from
the sheer number of servants and hangers-on that lodged with them, the
very crowdedness of his household ensured a lack of parental supervision,
and his father, who had been injured in a Japanese air raid many years
before, never took a firm hand with his sons.
His propensity for violence first showed itself in schoolyard fights. For
a time, he attended St. Francis Xavier Boy's College in Kowloon, run by a
German missionary and ex-boxer who encouraged Bruce to develop his
pugilistic skills. He became the school boxing champion, and also took
part in regular rumbles with the British students at the nearby King
George V School. And of course, he studied wing chun under Yip Man.
As he got older, his aggressiveness took a more sinister turn, as he
joined a local Triad and eventually became its gangleader. It's quite
likely that along with the usual rumbles he took part in the ocassional
out-and-out criminal assault, commiting much the same kind of violence
that, decades later, caused some Asian-American groups to call for a
boycott on the films of Mark Wahlberg. The situation was bad enough that
by the time he turned 18, his parents decided that they had no choice but
to send him off to America, even though he was being offered a lucrative
adult contract by Shaw Brothers studio. If they hadn't done so, their son
would probably have been arrested and tried as an adult.
His years in America were rather less violent, but there were incidents,
some of which have been magnified by posthumous legend. I don't know
where the truth ends and myth begins when it comes to things like the
fight that was so distorted in DRAGON: THE BRUCE LEE story, but he
certainly had some skirmishes. These abated after his fame grew, but then
reoccured once he relocated to Hong Kong. When he was hired for THE BIG
BOSS (aka FISTS OF FURY in America), first in a supporting part and then
moved up to the lead role, the various stuntmen and fight arranged
resented his presence, for he was not only perceived as an arrogant
semi-foreigner of mixed ancestry (I believe his grandmother was German),
but a spoiled former child star incongruously cast in an action role
(imagine if Macauley Culkin had gone off to Hong Kong for a while, then
returned to America and attempted to compete with Stallone and Eastwood).
In the rough and tumble world of early 70's Hong Kong filmmaking, it's no
surprise that fights occurred. Sammo Hung, a stunt man on the film,
admits to challenging him to a fight and quickly losing. Director Robert
Clouse recalls being irritated at Bruce for getting into regular fights on
the set of ENTER THE DRAGON. Kareem Abdul Jabbar, visiting him in Hong
Kong, witnesses several of these impromptu challenge matches, as did
DRAGON co-star John Saxon, and the late Ahna Capri, who played the film's
female lead, is alleged to have actually take some home movie footage of
one of them, which I believe was later offered for auction at Sotheby's.
As others have said, Lee never took part in any full-contact tournaments.
However, I have to ask the question of whether such tournaments as we now
know them even _existed_ in America in the 1960's. _Were_ there any
venues in which a striker might be expected to fight a grappler, or in
which martial artists practiced something more than points sparring? I
suspect there weren't. He couldn't have been a tournament fighter if such
tournaments didn't yet exist. To say that he wasn't one is not the same
thing as saying he was a fraud.
Ian McDowell
--
Author, MORDRED'S CURSE and MERLIN'S GIFT (AvoNova, $5.95 ea.)
"None of this would have happened if Guinevere's little sister hadn't grown a penis"
- opening line, MERLIN'S GIFT
sa...@webtv.net
etiquette and character by people like the preceding goon who take a
PRIVATE communication and post it PUBLICLY in an NG.
That, sir, says more about what you're made of than
anything ever could. You're the kind of guy who would post an
ex-girlfriends/ wifes photo all over the 'net.
sa...@webtv.net
pal, I was about 5 years old! Why don't you ask me where I was when
Kennedy was shot?! You old geezers need to get a life!
Thank you, all of you enlightened postees in this NG for
setting me straight (except for the dickwad who printed my private note
to him). How could I possibly have thought a 230 lbs wrestler or boxer
could beat the mighty Bruce Lee...what the hell was I thinking?? (for
those of you a little slow, I'm being sarcastic!).
While bodyweight doesn't always necessarily determine the
winner in a fight, it does when you have the girlish body of a Woody
Allen, albeit a very quick body.
I still haven't heard of ONE documented fight he ever fought
and won. Not ONE! You've made reference to his biased
biographies--the people he's beaten; all BS. Hell, I read an
interview with Patrick Swayze, after Roadhouse came out, and he stated
he nearly beat some guy to death with Karate once--yah, right! Look
what happened to Van Damme at the hands of a Hell's Angel (Chuck
Zito)!! Another pussy actor!
You guys need to get your heads out of your asses.
Magnulus
> Don't you think that skilled grapplers are wise to
>the Three Stooges finger in the eye?
No, I don't think so. I doubt they really train for that a lot. Many
grapplers have this pie in the sky idea, that they'll just grab ahold of the
guy, take him down, and that'll be it. No matter that he may have all kinds of
dirty tricks that aren't allowed in the UFC (knives, knees to the groin, etc.).
Also, there is much more to finger striking, than just jabbing your hands
out. First, if you do it wrong, you could hurt your hand very badly. If you
can do trapping well with good sensitivity, and have fast hands, you will be
more likely to pull it off successfully. In short, you have to practice it a
bit.. I myself practice it on a heavy bag quite a bit.
Also, read any good self-defense book. This is a basic move that negates a
lot of grabs of all sorts. If somebody is choking you, and you can thrust for
their eyes, they have to take one hand of their throat, normally, to block or
react. It's almost instinctive. The only disadvantage, is that is maims quite
often, so you don't want to do it to your drunk uncle at a New Year's party,
unless you preffer him blind.
You can also use the threat of eye-thrusts as a feint. It works very well,
and it's instinctive for most people.
YENDOR 20
<<maybe your right, maybe bruce wasnt that tough ,, he did drop dead
cheating on his wife>>
haha
Skpotamus
> What does weight have to do with his fighting ability?
>
> Lee too knew some grappling techniques. He did not believe that grappling
>be
>enough to stop a grappler who is trying to get on you. Aimed at the throat
>or
>eyes, it can cause blindness, pain, or death. They don't allow that move in
>the UFC, though. Neither do they allow you to try and rip out your opponents
He did know a few grappling moves that he learned from Gene LeBell. However,
he didn't really like them and didn't want to practice them. Read LeBell's
artcile about it in Black Belt Mag.
But, as for the finger thrust, Have you ever tried that before in a real
situation? Do you have any idea of the amount of accuracy and luck needed to
hit someone's eyes when they are moving. How about the throat when someone is
low and shooting? Even if you did hit with it, if it wasn't right on target,
you'd jam or break your fingers. Not saying it wouldn't work if you hit it
perfectly, but relying on one technique that wouldn't leave you with much
ability to follow up if you botched it is pretty dumb.
>
> Lee fought several people "for real". Read any good Lee biography, and you
>will see that he was in several real fights.
Who? Every thing I've ever read about Lee contradicted every other thing I've
read. As for his fighting, it seems to me that his producers and agents
wouldn't let him fight for real, because if he was injured, he wouldn't be able
to act. How would he feed his family then? It doesn't seem liek he would take
that chance. He wasn't a dumb person.
>with everything else in his life. There's an apocryphal story of a Tai Chi
>player challenging Lee to push his arm, to make him move, and Lee hits him on
>the head, and the guy falls over.
>
What does a sucker punch prove? Anyone can walk up, sucker punch someone and
knock them down. That story doesn't prove his fighting ability, even if it's
real. If it is real, then it says he was a prick. So I tend to think it was
fake.
Jason Hopkins
cheating on his wife
If only it had happened to Clinton
FRANKIE BABY
right he said this invented a new style called Raw . Never heard of
someone name Mark Couture in the ufc before this guy is pathetic. I have
heard of Randy Couture and Mark Coleman ,but not of Mark Couture. For
Raw its not a style as you guys know it is a group. Sabai you fucking
idiot Bruce Lee weighed 140 not 130. He also said bruce would lose in a
street fight in a second. Im sure he would since he based jkd on street
fighting.your opinions are welcome on this dumbass.So from now on Sabai
you are called a dumbass
Ilias
I don't know what your sources are but you might want to do some further research....
Ian McDowell wrote:
> Versions of this thread pop up so often that I suspect that many veteran
> rm-a'ers long ago learned to killfile any posts with "Bruce Lee" in the
> subject line, or at least don't read them. Still, here I am contributing
> to it, so I can't complain _too_ much (I'd quote Emerson's life about
> "foolish consistency," but NEXT STOP, WONDERLAND cured me of that for a
> while).
>
> Bruce Lee was from almost all accounts quite a brawler as a youngster,
> regularly getting into streetfights from late childhood until his growing
> propensity for violence led to his being packed off to America at the age
> of 18 (his parents deciding to do so because the authorities had
> officially complained, and were threatening to serious prosecution).
Do we know for a fact that this was the reason he left HK?
> Yes,
> he was the son of a well-known actor, and an actor himself from very early
> childhood (he was a movie star long before he was a martial artist, making
> 20 films in the years between his 6th and 18th birthdays), who very
> quickly developed a screen persona of a "clever, capable short-tempered
> little ruffian who specialized in the pout, the stare, and the slow burn"
> (Ric Meyers, MARTIAL ARTS MOVIES: FROM BRUCE LEE TO THE NINJAS).
this seems to be a credible source, uh? ;-)
> This
> image, however, was from all accounts not too far from the real Lee Siu
> Lung (his Cantonese screen name); one studio executive remembered as being
> "a vicious little thug," and his brother Robert later said that he
> averaged two fights a day. While his family was well-off, judging from
> the sheer number of servants and hangers-on that lodged with them, the
> very crowdedness of his household ensured a lack of parental supervision,
> and his father, who had been injured in a Japanese air raid many years
> before, never took a firm hand with his sons.
>
> His propensity for violence first showed itself in schoolyard fights. For
> a time, he attended St. Francis Xavier Boy's College in Kowloon, run by a
> German missionary and ex-boxer who encouraged Bruce to develop his
> pugilistic skills. He became the school boxing champion, and also took
> part in regular rumbles with the British students at the nearby King
> George V School. And of course, he studied wing chun under Yip Man.
W. Cheung and others have confirmed that Bruce had a lot of streetfighting experience in
HK.
Some of them were his WC seniors in the Yip Man school.
>
>
> As he got older, his aggressiveness took a more sinister turn, as he
> joined a local Triad and eventually became its gangleader.
I've never heard of this before. Leader of a gang?
> It's quite
> likely that along with the usual rumbles he took part in the ocassional
> out-and-out criminal assault, commiting much the same kind of violence
> that, decades later, caused some Asian-American groups to call for a
> boycott on the films of Mark Wahlberg. The situation was bad enough that
> by the time he turned 18, his parents decided that they had no choice but
> to send him off to America, even though he was being offered a lucrative
> adult contract by Shaw Brothers studio.
I seriously doubt this. He was offered a contract when visiting HK in the late 60s; for
the chinese Bruce
was the real hero in Kato. I've never heard that he was known for his skill long before
he came to the US.
> If they hadn't done so, their son
> would probably have been arrested and tried as an adult.
anyone know anything about this?
>
>
> His years in America were rather less violent, but there were incidents,
> some of which have been magnified by posthumous legend. I don't know
> where the truth ends and myth begins when it comes to things like the
> fight that was so distorted in DRAGON: THE BRUCE LEE story, but he
> certainly had some skirmishes. These abated after his fame grew, but then
> reoccured once he relocated to Hong Kong. When he was hired for THE BIG
> BOSS (aka FISTS OF FURY in America),
the big boss is the title of his first HK movie; First of fury is the title of another
movie of his!
Different scenario, different actors, produced in different years etc.
> first in a supporting part and then
> moved up to the lead role,
He was already known when he made that movie. I find it hard to belive that he didn't
have the lead part.
> the various stuntmen and fight arranged
> resented his presence, for he was not only perceived as an arrogant
> semi-foreigner of mixed ancestry (I believe his grandmother was German),
?!
can anyone out there confirm this? Not that it matters but....
>
> but a spoiled former child star incongruously cast in an action role
> (imagine if Macauley Culkin had gone off to Hong Kong for a while, then
> returned to America and attempted to compete with Stallone and Eastwood).
uh...interesting metaphor...
>
> In the rough and tumble world of early 70's Hong Kong filmmaking, it's no
> surprise that fights occurred. Sammo Hung, a stunt man on the film,
I know that Chacky chan was a stunt man in the fists of fury; was Samo there too?
>
> admits to challenging him to a fight and quickly losing. Director Robert
> Clouse recalls being irritated at Bruce for getting into regular fights on
> the set of ENTER THE DRAGON. Kareem Abdul Jabbar, visiting him in Hong
> Kong, witnesses several of these impromptu challenge matches,
when Kareem visited Bruce in HK he wasn't shooting enter the Dragon. In fact, at the
time they had no particular scenario; they were just filming fighting scenes; eventually
this was commercially released as game of death I, where Bruce fought Dan Innosado, a
Korean Hapkido expert and Kareem....
> as did
> DRAGON co-star John Saxon, and the late Ahna Capri, who played the film's
> female lead, is alleged to have actually take some home movie footage of
> one of them, which I believe was later offered for auction at Sotheby's.
I remember reading Bob Wall's and Dan Inosado's accounts of Bruce's fights...
>
>
> As others have said, Lee never took part in any full-contact tournaments.
he had survived so many fierce street fights in HK against students from other styles;
People like Chuck Norris never
who sparred with Bruce never questioned his skill or authority; quite a number of his
students are still alive and teaching either Ju fan or JKD. They can all talk about his
superb skill.
>
> However, I have to ask the question of whether such tournaments as we now
> know them even _existed_ in America in the 1960's. _Were_ there any
> venues in which a striker might be expected to fight a grappler, or in
> which martial artists practiced something more than points sparring? I
> suspect there weren't. He couldn't have been a tournament fighter if such
> tournaments didn't yet exist. To say that he wasn't one is not the same
> thing as saying he was a fraud.
only ignorant people make such claims...
>
>
> Ian McDowell
>
> --
> Author, MORDRED'S CURSE and MERLIN'S GIFT (AvoNova, $5.95 ea.)
> "None of this would have happened if Guinevere's little sister hadn't grown a penis"
> - opening line, MERLIN'S GIFT
regards,
Ilias
Ilias
sa...@webtv.net wrote:
> Where was I when Bruce was alive? That's ancient history,
> pal, I was about 5 years old! Why don't you ask me where I was when
> Kennedy was shot?! You old geezers need to get a life!
> Thank you, all of you enlightened postees in this NG for
> setting me straight (except for the dickwad who printed my private note
> to him). How could I possibly have thought a 230 lbs wrestler or boxer
> could beat the mighty Bruce Lee...what the hell was I thinking?? (for
> those of you a little slow, I'm being sarcastic!).
a wrestler would take Bruce? ROTFLOL!
Gee! Like David said, Bruce didn't know the first thing about grappling now,
did he? ;-)
>
> While bodyweight doesn't always necessarily determine the
> winner in a fight, it does when you have the girlish body of a Woody
> Allen, albeit a very quick body.
Despite his body weight he was very strong. People like De Mille have said
that he could punch as hard as a heavyweight boxer. What does that tell you?
>
> I still haven't heard of ONE documented fight he ever fought
> and won.
uh...let's see; a documented fight is of course a fight caught on tape, like
say those UCF tapes, right? ;-)
get real!
> Not ONE! You've made reference to his biased
> biographies--the people he's beaten; all BS.
drop Chuck an email; he'll be more than happy to clear all these
misconceptions of yours; he was the world karate champion at the time and
had sparred with Bruce. You could also contact any of his ex students.
> Hell, I read an
> interview with Patrick Swayze, after Roadhouse came out, and he stated
> he nearly beat some guy to death with Karate once--yah, right!
You sound even more ignorant by confusing the two.
> Look
> what happened to Van Damme at the hands of a Hell's Angel (Chuck
> Zito)!! Another pussy actor!
Well, if you compare VD to Bruce, then you must be losing it....
Not many people on this NG believe that VD is a serious martial artist....
>
> You guys need to get your heads out of your asses.
whatever; just keep watching UCF and I promise that we will not bother you
anymore....
George Szaszvari
says...
>Anyone can poke in the eye and tear at gonads. Bruce Lee would have been
>taken to the ground in a New York second and the fight would have been over
>to the Three Stooges finger in the eye? <snip>..
Hey, the Three Stooges rule!! *:O) Finger-In-The-Eye is one of
my best friends!
--
George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Bill
>
>What does a sucker punch prove? Anyone can walk up, sucker punch someone and
>knock them down. That story doesn't prove his fighting ability, even if it's
>real. If it is real, then it says he was a prick. So I tend to think it was
>fake.
>
>-Skpo...@aol.com
>
to his speed and ability I tend to lean toward those who knew and met
him. I spoke the other day with a friend who was witness to Bruce
speaking with several at a seminar or tournament. I am not sure which,
But he stood back and watched Bruce Lee shun a child asking for an
autograph saying in his famous accent. "Go away kid ...no I don't have
time for autographs." If memory serves I think he said Bruce was
talking to Ed Parker and the other I cant remember.
Speaking of speed and ability. Below is a repost of an older post
written about Bruce. I found it really interesting so I saved it .
Enjoy!
_______________________________________
Bruce Lee was not a boxer but he certainly was a fighter. If a person
had ever
stood in front of his attack he would have evidence of Bruce's skill.
I stood
in front of Bruce's attack many times and he was able to get in from a
distance
of over five feet before I react. I watched him do this against many
people who
were with him in 1960 and 1961. Many of these people were experienced
street
fighters who had fought a lot without losing. The thing that I find
amazing it
that people over look the fact that a fight isn't a contest. In a real
fight
people use their best weapon. Bruce Lee's best weapon was his
fingerjap. He
could use it with about the same speed as a quick draw artist. Bruce
practed
this move for hundreds of hours against a hanging mask with eye slits.
The mask
was suspended by a rubber strip. Bruce would pull on the bottom of the
mask
which would make it bounce around when he released it. As it bounced
around he
would practice poking the eye slots. In addition to being able to
strike a
moving target Bruce could close from a distance of five feet with a
fingerjab
and get people before they could move a muscle. If Bruce fought
someone he
certainly wouldn't have tried to box them. Before Bruce came to the
U.S. in
1959 he had many fights in Hong Kong. These were fights not contests.
His
primary teacher Wong Shun Leung of Wing Chun fame who fought and won
several
matches against streetfighters, Gung Fu teachers, and anyone else who
wanted to
fight in Hong Kong wrote that after Bruce started training in Wing
Chun that he
fought many Gung Fu teachers and others. Wong said that Bruce got so
bad at
challenging people that he had to take him aside and talk to him about
not
trying to goad Gung Fu teachers who didn't want to fight into
fighting. The
point is that Bruce could fight and did fight all of the time. I was a
ref at
one of his fights and I saw him take a pretty good Karate/Judo man in
the early
sixties. The fight lasted for eleven seconds( Ed hart was the
timekeeper). We
learned a few weeks after the fight that Bruce had cracked the guys
skull from
above his left eye to his cheekbone. Jesse R Glover (bruce Lee's first
student)
Ian McDowell
>Dear Ian,
>I don't know what your sources are but you might want to do some further
research....
[Snip reference to the young Bruce Lee's trouble with the law]
>Do we know for a fact that this was the reason he left HK?
It is according to Lou Gaul's _The Fist That Shook The World: The Cinema
of Bruce Lee_ . Gaul's book is clunkily written and and chauvanistically
ignorant about Chinese cinema (he thinks it unusual that Lee played a hero
who weeps openly at his sifu's death in _Fist of Fury/The Chinese
Connection_, for instance, when this kind of emotionalism was and remains
a standby of Cantonese filmmaking). To his credit, though, Gaul's book is
heavy on attributions. The source of this information was Bruce's
brother Robert.
_Something_ surely made his parents bundle him off to America, even though
he was on the verge of adult stardom. It wasn't disapproval of a film
career, as his father was a Peking Opera star who had done film work, and
got Bruce his first movie role when he was a toddler.
>> Yes,
>> he was the son of a well-known actor, and an actor himself from very early
>> childhood (he was a movie star long before he was a martial artist, making
>> 20 films in the years between his 6th and 18th birthdays), who very
>> quickly developed a screen persona of a "clever, capable short-tempered
>> little ruffian who specialized in the pout, the stare, and the slow burn"
>> (Ric Meyers, MARTIAL ARTS MOVIES: FROM BRUCE LEE TO THE NINJAS).
>
>this seems to be a credible source, uh? ;-)
Actually, yes, as it's better written and displays a broader historical
context than most books on Hong Kong cinema that have appeared in the US
and Britain since (I find it far more rewarding than Stephen Teo's
tediously academic and Mandarin-centric _Hong Kong Cinema: The Extra
Dimensions_, which was published by the British Film Institute Press
earlier this year). It badly needs an index, though. At least Myers,
unlike Gaul (see below) and most other writers on the subject, has
actually seen some of the films that Lee did in the 1950's (it's often
reported that they are all lost, but actually copies of several of them
exist in the British Film Institute archives).
>> As he got older, his aggressiveness took a more sinister turn, as he
>> joined a local Triad and eventually became its gangleader.
>
>I've never heard of this before. Leader of a gang?
The claim, at least, has appeared fairly widely. I don't remember the
name of the Triad in question (the something Street Dragons, I believe).
I don't doubt Lee's involvement as a member, but becoming their _leader_
may well have been his own "elaboration" of the truth (obviously, they
couldn't have been one of Hong Kong's major Triads, not with a teenage
"big brother," and were probably a pretty small time street gang).
>> It's quite
>> likely that along with the usual rumbles he took part in the ocassional
>> out-and-out criminal assault, commiting much the same kind of violence
>> that, decades later, caused some Asian-American groups to call for a
>> boycott on the films of Mark Wahlberg. The situation was bad enough that
>> by the time he turned 18, his parents decided that they had no choice but
>> to send him off to America, even though he was being offered a lucrative
>> adult contract by Shaw Brothers studio.
>
>I seriously doubt this. He was offered a contract when visiting HK in the
late 60s; for
>the chinese Bruce
>was the real hero in Kato. I've never heard that he was known for his
skill long before
>he came to the US.
He wasn't known for his martial arts skill during his original tenure in
Hong Kong, but was an actor with over twenty credits to his name,
graduating from Jackie Coogan-ish roles to James Dean-ish ones. His
better known films include _Kid Cheung_ (1950. when he was 10) and _The
Orphan_ (1957). His nickname of Siu Lung, "The LIttle Dragon," dates
from this. his first period of stardom, and was based on the tough,
street-smart kid he played in such films as _My Son, Ah-Chang_.
His role in _The Orphan_. filmed at the age of 17, caused a mini-sensation
in Hong Kong, a film industry that until that time had been ignorant of
the phenomena of the Teen Idol. Shaw Brothers is a venerable studio that
was making many kinds of films, including musicals and "scholar comedies",
decades before they became known in the west for their 70's martial arts
epics. Other than the Wong Fei-Hung films that Kwan Tak Hing had been
doing since the early 40's (and would continue to do into the 70's), there
were no Hong Kong "martial arts films" in the 1950's as the term is now
understood, and Run Run Shaw was not offering him a contract as a martial
arts star. Of course, "lucrative" is a relative term, and any sum that
Shaw Brothers offered him would have paled in comparsion to what James
Dean, or even some like Frankie Avalon, made in Hollywood.
>> If they hadn't done so, their son
>> would probably have been arrested and tried as an adult.
>
>anyone know anything about this?
These claims are allegedly based on interviews with Robert Lee and people
who worked in the Hong Kong film industry of the 50's/
>> His years in America were rather less violent, but there were incidents,
>> some of which have been magnified by posthumous legend. I don't know
>> where the truth ends and myth begins when it comes to things like the
>> fight that was so distorted in DRAGON: THE BRUCE LEE story, but he
>> certainly had some skirmishes. These abated after his fame grew, but then
>> reoccured once he relocated to Hong Kong. When he was hired for THE BIG
>> BOSS (aka FISTS OF FURY in America),
>
>the big boss is the title of his first HK movie; First of fury is the
title of another
>movie of his!
>Different scenario, different actors, produced in different years etc.
_The Big Boss_ , his first film for Golden Harvest, is known as _Fists of
Fury_ (note the plural "Fists") in America. _Fist of Fury_ (note the
singular "Fist"), his second (and much superior) one, is known as _The
Chinese Connection_. Legend has it that the American distributor wanted
to retitled the first film (_The Big Boss_) _The Chinese Connection_
(drugs figure in the plot and _The French Connection_ was big hit at that
time) and change the title of the second film from _Fist of Fury_ to
_Fists of Fury_, but the labels on the film cans got switched in transit.
It's created confusion ever since.
>> the various stuntmen and fight arranged
>> resented his presence, for he was not only perceived as an arrogant
>> semi-foreigner of mixed ancestry (I believe his grandmother was German),
>
>?!
>can anyone out there confirm this? Not that it matters but....
I've seen this cited in various places (including this newsgroup) as one
reason why Yip Man's other students pressured him into dropping Lee.
>> but a spoiled former child star incongruously cast in an action role
>> (imagine if Macauley Culkin had gone off to Hong Kong for a while, then
>> returned to America and attempted to compete with Stallone and Eastwood).
>
>uh...interesting metaphor...
>
>>
>> In the rough and tumble world of early 70's Hong Kong filmmaking, it's no
>> surprise that fights occurred. Sammo Hung, a stunt man on the film,
>
>I know that Chacky chan was a stunt man in the fists of fury; was Samo
there too?
Sammo's career as stunt man began slightly earlier than Jackie Chan's, as
he was older and larger. Indeed, he enjoyed success as a director and a
star somewhat before Chan did.
>> admits to challenging him to a fight and quickly losing. Director Robert
>> Clouse recalls being irritated at Bruce for getting into regular fights on
>> the set of ENTER THE DRAGON. Kareem Abdul Jabbar, visiting him in Hong
>> Kong, witnesses several of these impromptu challenge matches,
>
>when Kareem visited Bruce in HK he wasn't shooting enter the Dragon. In
fact, at the
>time they had no particular scenario; they were just filming fighting
scenes; eventually
>this was commercially released as game of death I, where Bruce fought Dan
Innosado, a
>Korean Hapkido expert and Kareem....
Lee interrupted shooting _Game of Death_ to make _Enter the Dragon_. He
then went back and shot a bit more footage for _Game of Death_, and then
did some final work on _Enter the Dragon_ right before his death. His
fight scene with Sammo at the beginning of _Enter the Dragon_, in which he
is visibly more emaciated than in the rest of the movie, was one of the
last things he ever filmed (although he also looking pretty hollow-eyed in
the fight with Kareem).
Michelle Magness
Jason Hopkins wrote in message <6v96o7$i76$1...@dagobah.blueriver.net>...
debr...@aol.com
sa...@webtv.net wrote:
> RYBourd: What tournaments and contests are you talking about?
> Bruce Lee never fought anybody for real. The guy weighed 130 lbs., any
> competent grappler, even back then, would have bitch-slapped him.
>
to...@worldchat.com
And probably all muscle too. Not like people today. And any competent
grappler would've bitch slapped him? Gee, I guess Gene Label isn't a
competant grappler. They trained together, and shared training tips and
techniques with each other while bruce was filming the green hornet (Gene was
a stunt man for the series) and they sparred and according to Gene himself,
the fought to draws. If he'd beaten Bruce, you don't think he'd say that?
Maybe if bruce had beaten him, he'd deny that, but who wouldn't? certainly
not Chuck Norris, who for many years proclaimed bruce to be the best he'd
ever seen, then all of a sudden, he said they were about equal. So, you're
little crack about the cometpant grappler came back to bite you on your fat
ass.
In article <25653-36...@newsd-134.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
sa...@webtv.net wrote:
> RYBourd: What tournaments and contests are you talking about?
> Bruce Lee never fought anybody for real. The guy weighed 130 lbs., any
> competent grappler, even back then, would have bitch-slapped him.
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
to...@worldchat.com
kenp...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > A fast biu jee (thrusting fingers) could be
> > enough to stop a grappler who is trying to get on you.<
>
been
> taken to the ground in a New York second and the fight would have been over
> in two New York seconds. Don't you think that skilled grapplers are wise to
> the Three Stooges finger in the eye?
Sure. If you can find a guy who doesn't care what happens to himself and has
his mind set on taking you to the ground, then he'll do. No matter what the
cost to his body.
>
> > Very little
> > about the UFC resembles reality.>
>
> Teeth flying across the arena and blood all the place and busted bones seems
> pretty real to me.
Oh, sure. Teeth flying and blood splattering. Like we don't see that on WWf
wrestling, or is that real too? Tell me that the fighters in the ufc are not
hand picked to lose to the better known fighters. It still seems fishy to me
that when Royce was winning all those UFC titles, his faminly was running the
promotion that arranged and accepted th fighters. Hmmmm. Can you say `WWF'?
Oh. Look where Shamrock and severen are now? And they claim in interviews
that the peole they fight there are as tough as the ones they fought in the
UFC. Does that make the UFC credible? I don't think so.
>
> > Lee fought several people "for real". Read any good Lee biography, and you
> > will see that he was in several real fights. I think Lee did not do
> > tournaments, because he didn't like following any rules.<
>
> Yeah, right. Bruce Lee didn't enter tournaments because he didn't think he
> was a slam dunk winner. Stop making excuses for the guy.
Bruce didn't enter tournaments because they were too restrictive to what he
could do. He said there were no rules on the street, so tournament fighting
resmbled nothing like real fighting. Why waste the time and energy? He didn't
need excuses.
>
> > He was also very busy with everything else in his life.<
>
> What an absurd statement. Bruce Lee showed up at the Long Beach
> Internationals in 1964. He stood around all weekend and watched everyone
> else fight. He had time to put on a demonstration of his art. If he
had
> time to do all that, then he had time to step into the ring and prove
> himself. Hey, we're all busy with life, right?
Step in what ring? Who at that time fought no hold barred fights? It was the
60's. Martial arts were just becoming a big fad. Sure he was the 64
national's that Ed Parker put on. Why not? If you're a martial artist, and it
is a HUGE part of your life, and a tournament comes to your area, you'll go.
Doesn't matter if it's not your art. It's still something you're interested
in. That's why he went.
head rush
buddy.
chris .
AROUND THE WORLD...AROUND THE WORLD...
AROUND THE WORLD...AROUND THE WORLD...
LATER!
d...@wingchun.com
: Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Bruce Lee never fought in
: tournaments. Surely you will agree that it is very easy to defeat someone in
Hey did Ed Parker ever fight in tournaments?
Did Jhoon Rhee?
Oh yeah they HELD tournaments. I guess they are not credible either.
Hey who were a lot of Bruce's LA students? Oh Yeah...Kenpo guys.
Parker Black Belts.
Dan Inosanto
Larry Hartsell
..
Oh by the way, did Chuck Norris or Joe Lewis or Mike Stone's *teachers*
fight in tournaments with "high caliber martial artists"?
Well I guess there is always Count Dante and Frank Dux.
After all they fought in "Death Match" tournaments. :)
: a "demonstratin." Bruce Lee really never fought any high caliber martial
His Seattle students say otherwise.
Duyen Phan
Do some research before insulting Bruce Lee. Van Damme and
Jackie are movie stars, we all know that. And so was Bruce, but he
could fight very god damn well. Back then, because of his fame, he
had been challenged many times. Once, a martial artist broke into
his house and waited until Bruce got home to challenge him. Bruce
was so pissed he gave the guy a hell of a shit kicking. And he wasn't
just some street thug, this guy was very well trained and wanted to
prove himself somehow and get noticed.
Through his entire career he'd been into fights many times because
of other martial artists who think like you do. He was never jumped
or anything like that, they just wanted prove that Bruce Lee was not
a fighter. In the end, Lee proved otherwise.
---------------------------
Jackson
>
>In article <6v8of7$a1h$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> kenp...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>>
>> > A fast biu jee (thrusting fingers) could be
>> > enough to stop a grappler who is trying to get on you.<
>>
>> Anyone can poke in the eye and tear at gonads. Bruce Lee would have
>been
>> taken to the ground in a New York second and the fight would have been over
>> in two New York seconds. Don't you think that skilled grapplers are wise to
>> the Three Stooges finger in the eye?
Who knows? Would be great to have seen Bruce in competition.
Anyone remember his film fight against Kareem? The last film fight I believe he
ever had? How did he "win"? GROUND TECHNIQUE! CHOKE HOLD!
>
>Sure. If you can find a guy who doesn't care what happens to himself and has
>his mind set on taking you to the ground, then he'll do. No matter what the
>cost to his body.
>
>>
>> > Very little
>> > about the UFC resembles reality.>
>>
>> Teeth flying across the arena and blood all the place and busted bones seems
>> pretty real to me.
>
>Oh, sure. Teeth flying and blood splattering. Like we don't see that on WWf
>wrestling, or is that real too? Tell me that the fighters in the ufc are not
>hand picked to lose to the better known fighters. It still seems fishy to me
>that when Royce was winning all those UFC titles, his faminly was running the
>promotion that arranged and accepted th fighters. Hmmmm. Can you say `WWF'?
I guess they picked that ref in the first fight that didn't even know what a
"tap-out" on the mat signified! Check out the video for UFC 1.
>Oh. Look where Shamrock and severen are now? And they claim in interviews
>that the peole they fight there are as tough as the ones they fought in the
>UFC. Does that make the UFC credible? I don't think so.
Yeah. Look at all those angry professional boxers like H.C. Chavez and Mike
Tyson that wanted so desperately to enter, but were turned away! All those top
judo and karate, kung fu and aikido masters that were begging to enter!
I guess they were all paid off to keep silent! <g>
>
>>
>> > Lee fought several people "for real". Read any good Lee biography, and you
>> > will see that he was in several real fights. I think Lee did not do
>> > tournaments, because he didn't like following any rules.<
>>
>> Yeah, right. Bruce Lee didn't enter tournaments because he didn't think he
>> was a slam dunk winner. Stop making excuses for the guy.
>
>Bruce didn't enter tournaments because they were too restrictive to what he
>could do. He said there were no rules on the street, so tournament fighting
>resmbled nothing like real fighting. Why waste the time and energy? He didn't
>need excuses.
True. There's a story about Bruce fighting Chuck Norris, who at the time was
the top karate competition guy in the world. Even with point fighting rules in
place, Bruce wiped the floor with ol' Chuck. (I'm being serious here.)
There was no UFC back then.
sun...@hotmail.com
"Jason Hopkins" <jas...@nospamblueriver.net> wrote:
> maybe your right, maybe bruce wasnt that tough ,, he did drop dead
> cheating on his wife
>
> If only it had happened to Clinton
>
>
Yes.. How fragile even the toughest of us are, against our worst demons!
- Sonny
--
Technical knowledge is not enough.
One must transcend techniques so that the art
becomes an artless art, growing out of the unconcious.
- DAISETSU SUZUKI
AZNPHILE
Hate to burst your bubble but Gene Lebell toyed with Bruce Lee. I'm sure all
the Bruce Lee groupies will attack me for this, but it's true. Please research
this a bit before you start writing a rebuttel. Gene Lebell has had the
decency not to brag about this although he could.
I don't agree with the Bruce Lee bashers but I think the Bruce Lee groupies who
worship & deify him are even worse!!!
Ian McDowell
(AZNPHILE) wrote:
>Hate to burst your bubble but Gene Lebell toyed with Bruce Lee. I'm sure all
>the Bruce Lee groupies will attack me for this, but it's true. Please research
>this a bit before you start writing a rebuttel. Gene Lebell has had the
>decency not to brag about this although he could.
Both sides tend to say "do your research" without actually providing any
citations of their own. The evidence for Lebell's claim, if he ever
actually made it, is as anecdotal as anything anyone has offered in Lee's
defense. I'm not saying that the matter of Lee's fighting prowess can't
be "proved" (i.e., persuasively argued) one way or another, but not
without someone taking the time and money to interview a wide range of
surviving witnesses (rather than relying on second- and third-hand
accounts), and essentially put the kind of labor into the task that's used
for writing a well-researched book (or at least a very well-paid magazine
article). This may yet happen, but not here on this newsgroup.
>I don't agree with the Bruce Lee bashers but I think the Bruce Lee groupies who
>worship & deify him are even worse!!!
I think they're about equally juvenile, actually, and that both can be
safely ignored.
Andrew Van Arum
> all over the 'net.
That would be cool.... : )
Mycroft
> I agree completely. Lee had many things going for
> him--charisma, looks, incredible speed--but a fighter he was not.
> He was merely a popular action movie star (his movies were
> great), like Van Damme or Jackie Chan. And, like them, he would have
> gotten his ass pounded in a real fight.
I'm fighting hard not to develop a prejudice against anyone posting from
"web-tv", but:
A) You don't know what the HELL you're talking about.
B) Notice how we ALL (including myself) got suckered into reading this
thread? The original poster (Chris) was more interested in promoting
his net-porn business than he was talking about the martial arts.
If his title had been "check out all my porn" his stupid post probably
would have been completely ignored.
--
******************************
Remove the "nospam" from my email to reply
Mycroft
original moron who used it to get people to read his post that was really
about porn, not martial arts. Anyways...
Skpotamus wrote:
> > What does weight have to do with his fighting ability?
> >
> > Lee too knew some grappling techniques. He did not believe that grappling
> >should dominate ones art, however. A fast biu jee (thrusting fingers) could
> >be
> >enough to stop a grappler who is trying to get on you. Aimed at the throat
> >or
> >eyes, it can cause blindness, pain, or death. They don't allow that move in
> >the UFC, though. Neither do they allow you to try and rip out your opponents
> >gonads, or for you to carry improvised weapons into the octagon. Very little
> >about the UFC resembles reality.
>
> He did know a few grappling moves that he learned from Gene LeBell. However,
> he didn't really like them and didn't want to practice them. Read LeBell's
> artcile about it in Black Belt Mag.
Grappling fans love to talk about whether or not Bruce knew "a lot" of grappling.
Question? Does someone have to be a grappling expert to beat a grappler?
Answer? Of course not. Just check out Maurice Smith. It's funny that know
one seems to want to talk at length about his grappling ability. If you read
what he's written about the subject his winning strategy is clear. A striker
needs to know enough about grappling to hold his own on the ground, get out
of the hold, and then take the fight back into the realm he is confident/dominate
in.
> But, as for the finger thrust, Have you ever tried that before in a real
> situation? Do you have any idea of the amount of accuracy and luck needed to
> hit someone's eyes when they are moving. How about the throat when someone is
> low and shooting? Even if you did hit with it, if it wasn't right on target,
> you'd jam or break your fingers. Not saying it wouldn't work if you hit it
> perfectly, but relying on one technique that wouldn't leave you with much
> ability to follow up if you botched it is pretty dumb.
I take it you haven't had much training in finger jabs? Your fingers shouldbe
spread, relaxed and angled up. It's not a case of "lining two fingers
up with two eyes". As for "botching", if you aim to high and hit the forehead,
your fingerjab can collapse into a palm smash to the nose. If you aim too
low, you can slide up into the eyes. It's really all pretty easy if you
train it right.
> >
> > Lee fought several people "for real". Read any good Lee biography, and you
> >will see that he was in several real fights.
>
> Who? Every thing I've ever read about Lee contradicted every other thing I've
> read. As for his fighting, it seems to me that his producers and agents
> wouldn't let him fight for real, because if he was injured, he wouldn't be able
> to act. How would he feed his family then? It doesn't seem liek he would take
> that chance. He wasn't a dumb person.
Wong Jack man for one. I've heard stories of Lee's fights from different
sources and they've been pretty much the same. As for the "producers not
letting him fight", there were some fights on the set of "Enter the Dragon".
In the Raymond Chow article in one of the recent "25th Anversary of Enter
the Dragon" magazines he describes several such articles. Remember Raymond
Chow was the producer of Enter the Dragon.
Andrew Van Arum
excuse the some of us that haven't read every damn book, seen every interview, or
heard every story there is...we're so sorry.
josh powell
'bitch slap'. Video records seem to indicate that Mr. Lee was _very_ fast.
Even if he had NO martial skills (which would be had to argue), I think that
most people (including competent grapplers) would be hard pressed to take
Bruce down.
just my 2cents..
josh
sa...@webtv.net wrote in message
<25653-36...@newsd-134.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Magnulus
>Hate to burst your bubble but Gene Lebell toyed with Bruce Lee. I'm sure all
>the Bruce Lee groupies will attack me for this, but it's true. Please
>research
>this a bit before you start writing a rebuttel. Gene Lebell has had the
>decency not to brag about this although he could.
True, but Lee then went on to studying grappling a bit, since he realized
that he had a deficiency there. I think that's what a good martial artist
should do.
Hallucitania Dreamwalker
> True, but Lee then went on to studying grappling a bit, since he realized
> that he had a deficiency there. I think that's what a good martial artist
> should do.
I had read in one of my book about chi (you know what i mean...) that
Dear Departed had not completed his training before he left China, does
anybody have any further references to this possibility?
humbly before you,
Hallu.
peter martin
was one of the reasons he didn't care so much for not teaching foreigners...
Ilias wrote in message <36180083...@ikaras.com>...
OJ Sloan
> In article <6v9fqu$ceo$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, to...@worldchat.com says...
> >
> >> > Very little
> >> > about the UFC resembles reality.>
> >>
> >> Teeth flying across the arena and blood all the place and busted
bones seems
> >> pretty real to me.
> >
> >Oh, sure. Teeth flying and blood splattering. Like we don't see that on WWf
> >wrestling, or is that real too? Tell me that the fighters in the ufc are not
> >hand picked to lose to the better known fighters. It still seems fishy to me
> >that when Royce was winning all those UFC titles, his faminly was running the
> >promotion that arranged and accepted th fighters. Hmmmm. Can you say `WWF'?
The Gracies sold their position in the UFC after UFC III. Royce still
captured the title in UFC 4
and fought the Superfight in UFC5. His fights were real, I personally
witnessed his black eyes
heal for two and a half weeks after UFC3. If you insist it was faked ala
WWF it just shows your
own ignorance. nuff said.
--
And thats all I have to say about that....
sa...@webtv.net
also a total hypocrite. He used to dis' people who break bricks by
saying, "Ahso, Bwick no hit back".
Then, what does this pint-sized phony do? The shrimp gives
demonstrations of his bogus "one-inch punch", where some poor,
defenseless sap stands there like a dummy while Lee pops him. To that,
I'd say, "Ahso, Bruth, demonstration dummy no hit back, either".
Ditto for the other, similar crap I've read about him
side-kicking some hapless slob holding an air shield, and knocking the
guy flat on his ass. Yup, he was one tough midget.
FRANKIE BABY
Stop trying to write like you're a tough guy cus your a bigger pussy
than your mom. Let me see, did you say that you know my address, but
instead of fighting me, you decided to call the cops. Gee, you really
are a toughguy. Go cry to webtv again like you claimed you did, you
little bitch. "This time you went too far," does this statement sound
familiar to you mr. "fantasizer dumbass." WHO THE HELL IS MARK COUTURE
AGAIN? Laters, Sabai "the dumbass fantasizer." hehehehe. You also made
a good point. Bruce Lee is a geek because he can do a one-inch punch.
Man, you are really intelligent. I better stop before you call the cops
on me, fucking bitch ass pussy. Cry baby! hehehehehe
Magnulus
>I had read in one of my book about chi (you know what i mean...) that
>Dear Departed had not completed his training before he left China, does
>anybody have any further references to this possibility?
You mean that "chi power" book, by Cheung?
True, Lee did not complete his training in Wing Chun before leaving Hong
Kong. He knew most of the art, but he did not know the complete dummy form, or
a lot of some of the last hand forms. He did, however, have a strong grasp of
the basics, and was a very good student. It was probably his partial knowledge
of WC that led him to search out other techniques (lucky for the JKD stylists,
or Jeet Kune Do might not exist. Lee might have been just another teacher of
the "classical mess", as he termed it.).
A lot of WC teachers bring this up, to say how Bruce Lee was not a really
good fighter, just an actor. Yet these are the same folks who'll put in their
ads, or in articles in Blackbelt, or something, "the art of Bruce Lee", or
something like that. They try and have it both ways.
A lot of Chinese teachers string out their curriculum so that they can keep
students comming back, or so that they can dangle "secret knowledge" over their
heads. I think this kind of thing is more common in Chinese martial arts, in
general, because the systems are so elaborate or esoteric,, and often there is
a loose system of grading, that they can get away with the "it takes twenty
years" line.
Bill
kenp...@my-dejanews.com
> his house and waited until Bruce got home to challenge him. Bruce
> was so pissed he gave the guy a hell of a shit kicking.<
This is absolutely absurd! In what comic book did you read this? There is no
accounting of this foolish garbage in 25 years! Do you have any idea how many
people lived in Bruce Lee's house? Not to mention servants and tons of dogs?
Right smack in the middle of Hong Kong! Somebody cancelled this guy's reality
check!
kenp...@my-dejanews.com
Parker or Jhoon Rhee or any of the others you mention are the "greatest
fighters who ever lived." Also, these men were not walking around barking
and challenging everyone to "prove themselves!"
>
> Hey did Ed Parker ever fight in tournaments?
> Did Jhoon Rhee?
>
> Oh yeah they HELD tournaments. I guess they are not credible either.
>
> Hey who were a lot of Bruce's LA students? Oh Yeah...Kenpo guys.
> Parker Black Belts.
>
> Dan Inosanto
> Larry Hartsell
> ..
>
> Oh by the way, did Chuck Norris or Joe Lewis or Mike Stone's *teachers*
> fight in tournaments with "high caliber martial artists"?
>
> Well I guess there is always Count Dante and Frank Dux.
> After all they fought in "Death Match" tournaments. :)
>
> : a "demonstratin." Bruce Lee really never fought any high caliber martial
>
> His Seattle students say otherwise.
>
> --
> David Williams mailto:d...@wingchun.com
> Planet Wing Chun http://www.wingchun.com/
> Bay Area Wing Chun Association http://www.thesphere.com/SJWC
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Stephen Havelka
actually one of the founding fathers of western medicine?
Bill (pe...@mindspring.com) wrote:
--
Steve
as of august 6, this email address is linked to /dev/null
I may be reached at steve at yellow5 dot com
Hewhay
wrote:
>maybe your right, maybe bruce wasnt that tough ,, he did drop dead
>cheating on his wife
>
But have you *SEEN* what his whife looks like?
He needed US citizenship, FAST.
"Per Me reges regnant"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
1368 - 1644 MING Chiao-ti (shuai jiao) introduced to Japan by
Ch'en Yuan-pin. A major source for jujitsu.
Shuai jiao AKA "Hsian Pu" same characters as Jap. "sumo,"
Kung fu and groundfighting:
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/4098/ground.html
Ian McDowell
>Once, a martial artist broke into
>> his house and waited until Bruce got home to challenge him. Bruce
>> was so pissed he gave the guy a hell of a shit kicking.<
>
>This is absolutely absurd! In what comic book did you read this? There is no
>accounting of this foolish garbage in 25 years! Do you have any idea how many
>people lived in Bruce Lee's house? Not to mention servants and tons of dogs?
>Right smack in the middle of Hong Kong! Somebody cancelled this guy's reality
>check!
Kareem Abdul Jabbar told a version of this story on one of the the two A&E
Biography episodes about Lee (I forget whether it was the superior hour
long one, or the cheesy two hour one narrated by George Takei). According
to Jabbar's account, the guy didn't break into Lee's home while he wasn't
there, but simply climbed over his back wall and challenged him in his
yard. Jabbar did claim that Lee was furious, and pummeled the intruder
pretty badly.
Ian McDowell
(Hewhay) wrote:
>On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:23:12 -0400 (EDT), ama...@webtv.net (John Carlo)
>wrote:
>
>>maybe your right, maybe bruce wasnt that tough ,, he did drop dead
>>cheating on his wife
>>
>
>But have you *SEEN* what his whife looks like?
>
>He needed US citizenship, FAST.
Lee was a US citizen from birth, having been born in San Francisco while
his father's theatrical troupe was touring there. It was a nurse at the
SF hospital who named him "Bruce," as an American name was needed on the
birth certificate.
Andrew Van Arum
> >cheating on his wife
> >
>
> But have you *SEEN* what his whife looks like?
>
> He needed US citizenship, FAST.
Wasn't he born in the US; therefor, already had US citizenship? Besides,
would he have had 2 kids with her if Bruce thought Linda was a nasty ho?
Andy
Shaolin-Do Kung-Fu
d...@wingchun.com
: Once, a martial artist broke into
:> his house and waited until Bruce got home to challenge him. Bruce
:> was so pissed he gave the guy a hell of a shit kicking.<
: This is absolutely absurd! In what comic book did you read this? There is no
: accounting of this foolish garbage in 25 years! Do you have any idea how many
: people lived in Bruce Lee's house? Not to mention servants and tons of dogs?
: Right smack in the middle of Hong Kong! Somebody cancelled this guy's reality
: check!
Actually the guy simply climbed over the wall into Bruce's backyard.
Bruce was home and kicked his ass good. The most recent place I saw
this mentioned was either on the 25 aniversary Enter the Dragon DVD or
it was in one of the MA mags about the same stuff.
d...@wingchun.com
: On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:23:12 -0400 (EDT), ama...@webtv.net (John Carlo)
: wrote:
:>maybe your right, maybe bruce wasnt that tough ,, he did drop dead
:>cheating on his wife
:>
: But have you *SEEN* what his whife looks like?
: He needed US citizenship, FAST.
Bruce Lee was BORN in the US. Figure it out.
FRANKIE BABY
Bruce Lee was born here you dumb fuck.
John Carlo
bruce wasnt born in the us you fucking dumb fuck you cant even repeat
what somebody said right.
Michelle Magness
very nice person!!!
biu.gung*my-dejanews.com (Hewhay) wrote in message
<3619a209...@news.ij.net>...
>On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:23:12 -0400 (EDT), ama...@webtv.net (John Carlo)
>wrote:
>
>>maybe your right, maybe bruce wasnt that tough ,, he did drop dead
>>cheating on his wife
>>
>
>But have you *SEEN* what his whife looks like?
>
>He needed US citizenship, FAST.
>
>
>
to...@worldchat.com
He was still using his modified wing chun. Would Bruce have faired better with
JKD? Who's to say?
I don't think he's a GOD. I do believe that he was the greatest martial artist
that has lived (so far). Too many people have too many stories about how good
he was. First hand stories beat stories by those that `heard from a source' or
read in a book by a disgruntled ex husband that Bruce was this, or not that.
So, maybe Gene was toying with Bruce at the time, and maybe not. No one knows
for sure but the two people there. And one of them is dead, and cannot defend
himself of any claims.
In article <19981005101618...@ng103.aol.com>,
aznp...@aol.com (AZNPHILE) wrote:
>
> Hate to burst your bubble but Gene Lebell toyed with Bruce Lee. I'm sure all
> the Bruce Lee groupies will attack me for this, but it's true. Please
research
> this a bit before you start writing a rebuttel. Gene Lebell has had the
> decency not to brag about this although he could.
>
> I don't agree with the Bruce Lee bashers but I think the Bruce Lee groupies
who
> worship & deify him are even worse!!!
to...@worldchat.com
Demos. They're meant to show techniques, not toughness or ability to kick
everyones ass. But to say that Bruce sucked shows how stupid some people
truly are. If he was no good, then how did he manage to get people from other
styles to leave their schools for his teachings? You know, people who were
taking Kenpo? Judo, ju jitsu, the list goes on and on. So if he was that bad,
then the instructors he stole students from (like Ed Parker) must've really
sucked. People like Jhoon Ree still talk about how good Bruce was, but I
guess that doesn't count. Sure, someday, someone would've been able to beat
him, but at his prime, he was untouchable.
In article <6v87s6$ejk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
kenp...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Bruce Lee never fought in
> tournaments. Surely you will agree that it is very easy to defeat someone in
> a "demonstratin." Bruce Lee really never fought any high caliber martial
> artists. His fight with Wong Jack Man was a draw and he did have a few street
> fights as a kid in Hong Kong, but, hey, didn't we all have a few fights as
> kids?
>
> In article <19981003220018...@ng60.aol.com>,
> ryou...@aol.com (RYouBoard) wrote:
> >
> > "Bruce Lee considered himself a martial artist first and an actor second."
> > Bruce was challenged by many martial artists at his time. And he was able
to
> > beat them. This proved that he was at least a good martial artist with some
> > skill. Second, he studied many arts including jiu-jitsu, judo, and the
like.
> > His books talk a lot about grappling and submission holds. It's sad that he
> is
> > not still living to be able to prove this to many skeptics among us.
Perhaps
> > he would be beaten by some younger martial artist. But to claim that he
> sucked
> > is not credible. He was able to back himself up by beating many people, on
> the
> > streets, in tournaments and demonstrations.
to...@worldchat.com
> Zito)!! Another pussy actor!
> You guys need to get your heads out of your asses.
>
>
I'm sure chuck would love to hear you call him a pussy. I hear he'll fight
anyone anytime. Give him a call. If you want to know how to get in touch with
him, well, he's on Howard Stern alot, and Stern's always looking for someone
to fight him on the show. Why don't you try? Or is your mouth to big for your
ability?
Ace Mir
> What an absurd statement. Bruce Lee showed up at the Long Beach
> Internationals in 1964. He stood around all weekend and watched everyone
> else fight. He had time to put on a demonstration of his art. If he had
> time to do all that, then he had time to step into the ring and prove
> himself. Hey, we're all busy with life, right?
>
Then again, what did he have to prove? To whom? By your logic, a bad ass
Hells Angel wouldn't be fighter. Because if he stepped in the ring and
tore his opponent apart, he'd be disqualified. I guess you just live in a
different world.
I've done tournaments. I've lost some, I've won some. I know that they are
a GAME. I've been studying a realistic self-defense-system for years now
and I'd probably lose in a tournament because I'd be disqualified for most
of the techniques I'd employ. And outside the ring I'd kick *ss. :) Same
thing with Bruce.
Cheers,
Ace
Ace Mir
> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Bruce Lee never fought in
> tournaments. Surely you will agree that it is very easy to defeat someone in
> a "demonstratin." Bruce Lee really never fought any high caliber martial
> artists. His fight with Wong Jack Man was a draw and he did have a few street
> fights as a kid in Hong Kong, but, hey, didn't we all have a few fights as
> kids?
>
Please get a clue... Bruce Lee was interested in reality. Tournaments are
not reality, they're designed to let people compete in a SAFE manner.
There have to be rules to avoid serious injuries. Bruce Lee could fight
for real. Your mentioning tournaments is a big laugh indeed.
Ace
Andrew Van Arum
Then, why would you've said that he needed U.S. citizenship if you knew
that BL was born in the U.S.?
Andy
Shaolin-Do Kung-Fu
FRANKIE BABY
idiot LOL LMAO
FRANKIE BABY
u.s. but he wasnt a u.s. citizen right that makes sense you truly are a
genius.
chris .
HAPPY
HALLOWEEN!!!
AROUND THE WORLD...AROUND THE WORLD...
I SEARCH FOR CHICS LIKE THIS!
Looks like Mark didn't take his Wheaties this
morning.
"WHAT DOES'NT KILL YOU MAKES YOU STRONGER"
FEAR THE SPEAR!
John Carlo
wrote my post and put his answer under mine!
John Carlo
as a DUMB FUCK!
John Carlo
when he cheated on his wife it killed him --the guy after me out down
my message on his post and then put answered me with his
comment------hay dick when you go back and look it up my post with my
name with it, then writwe back and apoligise for your DUMBNESS
YENDOR 20
I just saw you getting out on the rock.haha.Is my email getting to you ok?I
just upgraded my aol so let me know.
Trouble Bruin
Mycroft
> Hate to burst your bubble but Gene Lebell toyed with Bruce Lee. I'm sure all
> the Bruce Lee groupies will attack me for this, but it's true. Please research
> this a bit before you start writing a rebuttel. Gene Lebell has had the
> decency not to brag about this although he could.
You say "do your research" then make an unfounded claim with out any reference.I
can pull up several references from several different respected grapplers
(including Gene Lebell) that say that Bruce knew his stuff. The way you've
stated your RIDICULOUS claim you make it impossible to prove/disprove.
Of course Bruce can't speak for himself (he's dead) but then you cover
yourself on the Gene Lebell front by saying "he 'toyed' with Bruce but now
won't admit it". That's lame, real lame.
> I don't agree with the Bruce Lee bashers but I think the Bruce Lee groupies who
> worship & deify him are even worse!!!
No. What's worse is your attributing something to Gene Lebell for which you
give NO evidence and then say "well Gene just won't admit it". Bullshit.
--
******************************
Remove the "nospam" from my email to reply
Mycroft
(That' he's a complete idiot and is so glad that his Mommy bought
"Web-TV" for him)
Give me a break asshole. It's bad enough that you use this group to
push your
porn trash. It's worse that you stupid web-tv loosers keep patting each
other
on the back over what you don't know.
AZNPHILE
>You say "do your research" then make an unfounded claim with out any
>reference.I
>can pull up several references from several different respected grapplers
>(including Gene Lebell) that say that Bruce knew his stuff. The way you've
>stated your RIDICULOUS claim you make it impossible to prove/disprove.
>Of course Bruce can't speak for himself (he's dead) but then you cover
>yourself on the Gene Lebell front by saying "he 'toyed' with Bruce but now
>won't admit it". That's lame, real lame.
Yes, Gene did say he knew his stuff (striking). You must be replying to
somebody else. The fact is that Gene got "The Little Dragon" in some holds he
couldn't get out of. This is not to say that he sucked. Gene was much older,
at the time & Bruce was probably still stuck in his Wing Chun phase. That's
when he realized the need to incorporate grappling into his style. I'm sure
there are other people on the board who knows about this. There was an article
where Gene LeBell got Bruce in a headlock & was giving him nuggies & sat on
him. If I come across this article again I will post the issue!!! I'm sorry
but I can't remember exactly which issue it was!!(I'm not a Librarian)
The fact is, he was NOT a God!!! Like everyone, he had good & bad days. Bruce
Lee groupies have to realize that he had to go through a process of learning.
I know he was in good shape, any fool can see that. Unfortunately, people who
are in the best shape don't always win. Do you know that Danny Inosanto is now
training with the Machados? If JKD was so perfect, why would he feel the need
to do that?
I think you got that Gene won't admit it thing out of context. He doesn't
advertise it, but I'm sure if you asked him he would tell you the truth.
Do you really believe that he was some kind of superman that could never be
beat? Why would he even have to work out? Everybody has been beaten before at
some point in his life. That's the whole process of improving!!!
AZNPHILE
>
>You say "do your research" then make an unfounded claim with out any
>reference.I
>can pull up several references from several different respected grapplers
>(including Gene Lebell) that say that Bruce knew his stuff. The way you've
>stated your RIDICULOUS claim you make it impossible to prove/disprove.
What makes it ridiculous? Because you image of your idol is tarnished? I
don't think it tarnishes his reputation to show he was beaten easily in his
career & had to adapt grappling into his arsenal. Remember his fight with the
Kung-Fu guy that winded him & caused him to revamp his style. Is it so
unbelieveble that Gene Lebell, a competitve Judoka could toy with the
inexperienced Lee? Gene Lebell was more than a Judoka, he was very much
schooled in the old style of pro-wrestling before it became the fake farce it
is now. Back then, they used finishing holds much like they do in NHB
nowadays. Gene Lebell is the one that most of the "Martial Artists" of the day
worked out with for grappling:
Benny Urquidez
Joe Louis
Bruce Lee
He is still much revered for his knowledge.
Check out this post someone else posted who has also heard of this:
Subject: Re: Steven Segal
From: Aiki1@re_move_earthlink.net (Aiki1)
Date: Tue, Oct 6, 1998 15:58 EDT
Message-id:
<Aiki1-06109...@dwan5-pool013.pw-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net>
In article <361a5788...@news.mindspring.com>, pe...@mindspring.com wrote:
This is well-known. Gene was easily able to deal with Bruce Lee on the set
of the Green Hornet, a long time ago. That's basically how Lee got into
grappling. They became very good friends.
FRANKIE BABY
spelling. apologize is with a "Z' not "S" .when you spell hey it is with
an e not an a. maybe you dont know what a hay is. Yendor ,Sabai and
John Carlo you guys need to grow up you guys are immature
FRANKIE BABY
can you say "SARCASTIC"
don griffen
and Den mother of the newsgroup as well as a little queer piece of shit!
FB
FRANKIE BABY wrote:
Interesting how you criticize John Carlo's spelling, when you can't even
find the right place to put a period or a comma, nor do you know when to
capitalize a word (e.g. at the beginning of a sentence).
And it's "intelligent", not "intilligent".
FRANKIE BABY
get yourself some hook on phonics. i think it will still work for you
even though your old. your just jealous of me because you are mentally
challenged.
KapuKing
Too bad Clinton didn't do the same back in Arkansas, we wouldn't have this
mess.
KapuKing
LOL, his wife was/is ugly, but, Bruce was born in San Fran, making him a
citizen already
Andrew Van Arum
> his style.
I thought that was just in the movie Dragon, and that he really injured his back
while lifting weights ( a military press exercise maybe ).
Andy
voxh...@my-dejanews.com
He's just not traveled or cultured enough yet. Apparently hasn't found out
that there's a large portion of >English<-speaking civilisation (with an S!)
that uses s instead of z in words like apologise, organise, civilise...namely,
the UK, who also bring you colour, etc.
Now I'll just wait for the return rant about how the >Bleepin'< limeys don't
know jack about speaking and spelling the language.
:::waves:::
Vox
Trouble Bruin
can you say "COMMA," "APOSTORPHE," or "DICTIONARY?"
FRANKIE BABY
imlying the same question.
FRANKIE BABY
my PUNCTUATIONS again because ill just say my famous quote again "can
you say sarcastic"
FRANKIE BABY
Duyen Phan
See, I thought I heard some version from somewhere. So it is not absurd, it
was
true.
Bruce Lee did not live in Hong Kong. And why the hell do you think he lived
in
Hong Kong? He had one or two servants.
And my reality is perfectly fine. I do not dream this stuff up. I read his
biographies
and watch his biographies.
>>This is absolutely absurd! In what comic book did you read this? There
is no
>>accounting of this foolish garbage in 25 years! Do you have any idea how
many
>>people lived in Bruce Lee's house? Not to mention servants and tons of
dogs?
>>Right smack in the middle of Hong Kong! Somebody cancelled this guy's
reality
>>check!
>
>Kareem Abdul Jabbar told a version of this story on one of the the two A&E
>Biography episodes about Lee (I forget whether it was the superior hour
>long one, or the cheesy two hour one narrated by George Takei). According
>to Jabbar's account, the guy didn't break into Lee's home while he wasn't
>there, but simply climbed over his back wall and challenged him in his
>yard. Jabbar did claim that Lee was furious, and pummeled the intruder
>pretty badly.
>
>Ian McDowell
>
>--
>Author, MORDRED'S CURSE and MERLIN'S GIFT (AvoNova, $5.95 ea.)
>"None of this would have happened if Guinevere's little sister hadn't grown
a penis"
> - opening line, MERLIN'S GIFT