Goshin Ju jutsu
Anthony LaBella
Is anyone here studying Goshin JuJutsu... or Goshin Jutsu?
I'd like to compare notes!
Tony
--
David Neal
Hi, Tony,
There has been quite a bit of discussion on this newsgroup over the
past few months on some of the Goshin styles. You can retrieve them
using Deja News at www.dejanews.com
David
GoshinTn
Tony, I've been with the Goshin system for about 22yrs, and would enjoy sharing
information with you
mopho
i am a third dan in goshin jutsu under grandmaster joe brague
who's
school is located willamsport pa. i train under master paul marsh in
swoyersville pa. just to make sure we are talking about the same
goshin
jutsu, the following is a brief history written by my instructor:
Goshin history in the United States began with Gerald Durant. As
a
small boy Grand Master Durant was introduced to karate by his
father, who
was a Jujitstu Master here in the U.S.
Grand Master Durant joined the Merchant Marines sometime in
the
1940's. He jumped ship when he reached Japan and spent the next 13
years
there, where he learned from many instructors. He had been
known to call
himself a thief; staying only as long as there was something to learn
and
then moving on to the next. It was very difficult for an American in
Japan in those days-especially after World War II. But he was
diligent
and gained great knowledge. One of his instructors in Japan taught
Goshin
Jutsu, a modernized form of Jujutsu where emphasis was placed on
vital
point techniques, locking techniques and take downs.
When he came back to the U.S. he held a 6th Degree Black Belt
ranking
in Goshin Jutsu. He moved to Canada for 3 years and studied with a
Buddhist monk. He then settled in Erie, PA and started Goshin Jutsu
Karate
in the United States. After a few years he renamed his schools the
Goshin
Jutsu Kyo Jujo, "main place where you learn to defend the body arts."
The
Yudan Shakai (Board of Black Belts) promoted Master Durant to his
10th
Degree (Grand Master) in 1974 following the death of his instructor
in
Japan.
He had many faithful and accomplished students during his
lifetime.
He was quoted as saying, "I won a lot of trophies in my time, but i
never
kept a single one. I always gave them to my students. That's right' i
gave them away. I really don't need trophies sitting on my shelf at
home
'cause I have the trophies really count. My trophies are out on the
Dojo
(school) floor sweating their butts off. they are the trophies that
count." (Official Karate, Oct. 1976)
In 1983 the system centered in Erie, PA fell into a time of
disagreement and split into two sections. Master Joe Brague, USA
Director
under Grand Master Durant became the head of a new branch. This
new
branch based in Williamsport, PA was renamed Goshin Jutsu Karate,
dropping
the Kyo Jujo. Although separate from the Erie group Master Brague
always
kept in touch with his teacher. Kyoto, as Grand Master Durant was
known
to many, eventually left Erie, PA and moved to Texas to be near his
family.
In April 1991, knowing the Grand Master was seriously ill, a final
tribute was held in Erie, PA to honor his many years of dedication to
the
Martial Arts.
Grand Master Durant died in Pasadena, Texas of lung cancer July
14,
1991, at the age of 68.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
feel free to email me at mo...@epix.net.
patrick
maloney
Anthony LaBella wrote:
> Is anyone here studying Goshin JuJutsu... or Goshin Jutsu?
> I'd like to compare notes!
>
> Tony
>
> --
>
>
mopho
i would like to correct myself in the previous post i made. the goshin jutsu history i quoted was
written by karen black.
Wild Bill
Hi gentlemen,
My name is Bill johnson, AKA WIld Bill. I trained with Mr Capela, Mr
Christiano, Mr Kutz, Mr Bohach, Mr Carr, Mr Porfilio,et al and I probably
hold the record for times knocked out cold by Kyoyo,(Mr Bohach, Mr
Izbicki, Mr Harmon, Ms Dodi Spizak, "gypsy" , Eileen (whose last name I
don'tremember) Ms Sally Eschbaugh,and I comprised the original "demo
team"for the Goshin Jutsu Kyo Jujo) I remember Mr Brague very well.
I started back when the dojo was in the now demolished Pythian Temple
building, and later while it was on French Street in Erie. Then it moved
to the buiilding acros from the West Erie Plaza, later to Buffalo road) I
also hold the 2nd place for distance travelled in the air by a throw from
Mr Durant, Mr Bohach holds first place honors for that. :-) (22 feet if I
remember correctly) Mr Durant also farmed us out at times to Glenn
Premru, Art Sykes, and others for demo dummies at tournaments. Learned
great ukemi that way, tho.
FYI, Matt Durant is Dai Soke per Kyoto Durant's request, and is living in
Erie. Bob Bohach is in Youngstown, but is not part of the organization,
Mr Capela wasin Union City, Pa last I heard. Tom Harmon and Carl (Claw)
McClafferty are in Phoenix, Az and Detroit, MI respectively, and have
left GJKA for the MizuHi Kobukan Shinto Ryu. I don'tknow if JP Root is
still alive, nor if Vince Christiano or Bill Cavalier are still alive or
active.
I left Erie about the time the poitics got really bad, and trained in
Shorin Ryu and Shotokan in San Antonio(1971-75). Later I rejoined with
TOm Harmon and Carl McClafferty in the MizuHi while training in kenjutsu
and kobudo. Tom still teaches in Gilbert , Az, and Carl had a dojo in
Tucson, Az before he was transferred to Michigan. I believe his
student Shawn still teaches there. Carl holds Shihan ranking from Kyoto
before his death, and from Nakamura Batto Ryu kenjutsu under Saruta
sensei. I got my shodan and nidan rankings directly from Mr Durant , and
later my san dan and yon dan from Carl and Tom.
It is good to hear that Goshin is alive and well.
Please give my regards to sensei Joe
SIncerely,
WIld Bill
David Neal
On 5 Dec 1997 17:09:04 GMT, Wild Bill <wh...@virginia.edu> wrote:
>Hi gentlemen,
>My name is Bill johnson, AKA WIld Bill. I trained with Mr Capela, Mr
>Christiano, Mr Kutz, Mr Bohach, Mr Carr, Mr Porfilio,et al
Hi, Bill,
I've developed an interest in this style lately, as I have a friend
who trains in Goshin-Do under Mr. Porfilio in Greensboro, NC.
Mr. Porfilio is extremely vague and contradictory in his explanations
when asked about the history of the style, so my friend has asked me
to do some research here. Sounds like you're the guy with the facts :)
Here is a partial list of the questions my friend has been looking for
answers to:
1. Did Mr. Ralph Porfilio study under Mr. Durant? For how long?
2. What rank, if any, did Porfilio earn under Durant?
3. Did Durant really study in Japan? Under whom, for how long, and
what was his instructor's lineage? Who promoted him to black belt?
4. What rank, if any, was Durant promoted to in Japan? Mr. Porfilio
claims that Durant was the ONLY American every promoted to 10th Dan by
the Japanese. Exactly WHICH Japanese organization was this? Whose
name is on his 10th Dan certificate? How can this be verified?
5. What exactly was the style called in Japan (for instance, kung-fu,
kempo, shotokan, daito-ryu, etc.)?
6. Mr. Porfilio claims that he is teaching a pure form of karate, the
same one used by the "samurai". He specifically states that the katas
he teaches are the exact same ones done by the samurai outside their
castles centuries ago. Is there any truth at all to these "handed
down-by -the-samurai" claims? Is this what Durant said also?
7. Even though Mr. Porfilio maintains that the katas haven't changed
in centuries, his students say that he has started changing them, then
correcting their "mistakes" when they do the moves the "old way". What
do you make of this?
8. Mr. Porfilio claims that the reason students in his system wear
black gi's is because the style is used by the ninjas, who also wore
black. Is this true? How does this jibe with the samurai thing?
9. What do the names of the katas mean? For instance, Porfilio's first
four katas are called Hajimente, Futatsu, Itchi Bondo and Mittsu. Mr.
Porfilio can't/won't explain what the names mean. Does anyone know?
10. Where did the katas come from? Did Durant just make them up, or
did he really learn them in Japan? If so, why didn't he pass along the
meanings of their names and the history behind them?
11. Mr Porfilio states that he is the head of the Goshin system in the
US, and that all other Goshin schools in Erie are under his authority.
This seems to be at odds with what has been posted here by the Erie
Goshin practicioners. Who is correct?
Hope you have a few minutes to shed some light on this, Bill,
Thanks, David
Anthony LaBella
Bill-
Do you have any info on how Goshin JJ may have spread down to
the NYC area?
Tony
--
avsup
GIVE ME A BREAK - PLEASE!!!
David Neal
On Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:11:17 -0500, "avsup" <av...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>GIVE ME A BREAK - PLEASE!!!
Um, what do you mean? Who are what are you disagreeing with?
Hello?
Wild Bill
(strange requests on this list, des neh? )
WIld Bill (tongue firmly in cheek)
Wild Bill
37...@aol.com (David Neal) wrote:
>On 5 Dec 1997 17:09:04 GMT, Wild Bill <wh...@virginia.edu> wrote:
>
>>Hi gentlemen,
>>My name is Bill johnson, AKA WIld Bill. I trained with Mr Capela, Mr
>>Christiano, Mr Kutz, Mr Bohach, Mr Carr, Mr Porfilio,et al
>
>Hi, Bill,
You have quite a group of questions here. I will try to answer them as
well as I can. DISCLAIMER_ This is information I was told as a student
back in the 60s in reference to the system. I claim no mre historical
accuracy than that this is what I "grew up with" so to speak. I have
studied other systems and an not affiliated with the GOshin Jutsu Kyo
Juju or afiliated groups/organizations, so I think I can be fairly
objective.
>who trains in Goshin-Do under Mr. Porfilio in Greensboro, NC.
>
>Mr. Porfilio is extremely vague and contradictory in his explanations
>when asked about the history of the style, so my friend has asked me
>to do some research here. Sounds like you're the guy with the facts :)
>Here is a partial list of the questions my friend has been looking for
>answers to:
>
>1. Did Mr. Ralph Porfilio study under Mr. Durant? For how long?
I know that for a fact, because I first met Ralph at the dojo, and he
proceded to beat on me for a few fun filled evenings :-) He was already a
black belt when I started in 1966 with Mr Durant, as was Steve Capela,
Bill Kutz, Vince Christiano, and Bob Bohach.
>
>2. What rank, if any, did Porfilio earn under Durant?
see above- I don't know how high he was ranked, and never cared. I was
not much for rank, I was more interested in what anyone could teach me.
If they wore a black belt , they obviously knew more than me. He was at
least shodan, though.
>
>3. Did Durant really study in Japan? Under whom, for how long, and
>what was his instructor's lineage? Who promoted him to black belt?
Yes, also I know for a fact, as I saw his scrap book and was confirmed by
a Japanese sensei who visited him when I was a green belt, a 7th dan
whose name I don't remember, but he was incredible, and treated sensei
Durant with a lot of respect. I saw pictures of Durant at Marakami's
dojo, Ueshiba's dojo, and the Kodokan, and also saw his menkyo kaiden
from Marakami Osensei. There was a great picture of Mr Durant doing
formal Judo kata in gi and black obi with one of Kamo's top students, who
was the same size as Durant sensei, both about 130 pounds soaking wet :-)
He trained in Japan for at least 15 years, and because of his father's
having been trained in Jujutsu with some well known Japanese sensei, Mr
Durant had access to some training that was not generally open to gaijin.
Marakami trained with Sakeda (?sp) the same one who trained Ueshiba
Osensei, and that was also why Durant did some of his aikijutsu training
with Ueshiba Osensei, white hakama and all. (not too many people know it,
but Ueshiba originally insisted on white , not black hakama)
I don't remember the dates of hs training, but he left home, (he and his
dad di not get along at all) lied about his age, got on a Merchant Marine
ship and jumped ship in Japan, living most of the time in Osaka,
including a stint at a Shinto temple. I also saw a photo of Durant
(holding a broom) on the temple steps.
as to the ninpo thing. IN several old scrolls, there are references to
Goshin Jutsu and various derivations of the word being among the ryu ha
various ninpo or shinobi clans trained in. One aspect of Goshin is a
healing art. Durant studied a form of koppojutsu, and indeed may have
trained with Takematsu or one of his students. I know that there are ties
between Marakami and the Takagi or Hontai yoshin ryu. One is among the
ryu ha of the Gembukan under soke Tanemura, and the other is among the
ryu ha of the Bujinkan under soke Masaaki Hatsumi.
One of the confusions about his ranking is that he received actual
menkyo, or teaching license in Japan, before Kano's kyu/dan rankings
became both popular and required. SOMe of the koryu still resisted this
trend and award Menkyo rather than the more modern kyu and dan rankings.
Goshin Jutsu was an amalgamation of the Goshin (hard mind) one kanji and
the Goshin (five hearts) different kanji. This further confuses the
issue, as one lineage became mostly modern karate ala shotokan/shito ryu
another maintained the ties to aikijutsu, and the American students have
pretty much each gone their own way.
there are probably elements of ninjutsu among the kokushite (hidden hand)
of Goshin, just as there are element of ninjutsu among both the Daito ryu
and Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu.
>4. What rank, if any, was Durant promoted to in Japan? Mr. Porfilio
>claims that Durant was the ONLY American every promoted to 10th Dan by
>the Japanese. Exactly WHICH Japanese organization was this? Whose
>name is on his 10th Dan certificate? How can this be verified?
I don't know the answers to this, except that DUrant WAS awarded menkyo
kaiden from Marakami, and at least a yondan from the Kodokan. IN effect,
menkyo kaiden IS a judan in that only the sokeship is higher, aka menkyo
hiden, and that is generally handed down father to son, with some
exceptions.
>5. What exactly was the style called in Japan (for instance, kung-fu,
>kempo, shotokan, daito-ryu, etc.)?
Both Marakami san and Takematsu san called their systems "karate jutsu"
although neither had any relationship to Funakoshi's Karate do. I do know
that Kano trained in one of the ryu ha now under BUjinkan, so that might
be another source of the claim for GOshin being related to ninjutsu. It
was not a ninpo ryu, though, so that claim is pretty thin, IMHO. ALso,
Goshin ryu Aikijutsu was a formally accepted ryu in Japan at that time,
although most aikijutsu was either absorbed into a jujutsu ryu or died
out once aikido (more classy name and association , plus "new and
improved" over traditional aikijutsu)
>6. Mr. Porfilio claims that he is teaching a pure form of karate, the
>same one used by the "samurai". He specifically states that the katas
>he teaches are the exact same ones done by the samurai outside their
>castles centuries ago. Is there any truth at all to these "handed
>down-by -the-samurai" claims? Is this what Durant said also?
IF he means that Goshin has its roots in several samurai family arts,
with some importation from both CHinese (via Okinawa) and Korean
(koppojutsu) arts, he is probably pretty correct in that statement. I
doubt that he is teaching "pure"karate however, since thre was an element
of competition even when I was training, and I was disqualified from
several tournaments to prove it:-)
>7. Even though Mr. Porfilio maintains that the katas haven't changed
>in centuries, his students say that he has started changing them, then
>correcting their "mistakes" when they do the moves the "old way". What
>do you make of this?
AMerican instructors who do not train in Japan with the soke of the
system , or who teach a system that has basically become defunct, except
in the US, and maybe Canada, become very defensive about whether they
teach the "real thing". When lineage is intact, though, there is still
change from instructor to instructor. I think nobody CAN teach "pure
unchanged" anything. Again , IMHO.
>8. Mr. Porfilio claims that the reason students in his system wear
>black gi's is because the style is used by the ninjas, who also wore
>black. Is this true? How does this jibe with the samurai thing?
this has two reasons. SOme of the samurai trained in ninjutsu
(intelligence invisibility, stealth, etc) from either Iga or Koga sensei
at various points in history, when there was not actice supression of the
Iga and Koga families by the government. Bujinkan, Gembukan, Jinenkan ,
all have samurai family arts taught right along side the arts taught for
centuries by various samurai families.
Furthermore, White is associated with death in Japan, not just purity.
The ninpo and related arts adopted black both for stealth, and as a
declaration of their art's association with life and survival versus the
death fatalism of most mainstream samurai arts. Many Kenjutsu ryu ha wear
black for the same reason.
>9. What do the names of the katas mean? For instance, Porfilio's first
>four katas are called Hajimente, Futatsu, Itchi Bondo and Mittsu. Mr.
>Porfilio can't/won't explain what the names mean. Does anyone know?
HAjimete is "the beginning hand" I think it comes from a CHinese
exercise to open energy channels and begin the day's training. Futatsu I
would have to look up, but it is , I think a purely traditional Japanese
form,the "fu" referring to a "wind" or "air" form. Ichi Bando is the
first form of one of the Okinawan tuite/tode arts, and being Okinawan,
also has a lot of Chinese influence, MIttsu is another name given to
japanese form, but I do not remember why the name was changed. >
>10. Where did the katas come from? Did Durant just make them up, or
>did he really learn them in Japan? If so, why didn't he pass along the
>meanings of their names and the history behind them?
A lot of what Durant studied in Japan was piecemeal. The katas were not
all form Marakami, and indeed, some were not supposed to even be taught
to Gaijiin. I think Mr Durant endured a lot of harassment from being
gaijin and was not permitted to have scrolls that many students who were
alowed to teach received. I doubt that Marakami made much public mention
in Japane that he had given Mr Durant Menkyo and a very few scrolls.
Durant spent many years peiceing back together what he had been taught
into a systematic training system. He didn'tchange the forms so much as
rearange things to make more sense. His students DID change them, and I
don't doubt he is turning over in his grave seeing what some of them have
done with the system he so painstakingly put together to pass on to
posterity. If it was not for him , non of what makes up Goshin would
still be taught ANYWHERE. Marakami is dead, Basuo Shintiani is dead, his
son and heir , Basil is dead. Like many many other koryu, Goshin is lost
in Japan, simply because the young people of Japan are more interested in
sport than in keeping alive thousands of years of training and sacrifice.
it is sad.
>11. Mr Porfilio states that he is the head of the Goshin system in the
>US, and that all other Goshin schools in Erie are under his authority.
>This seems to be at odds with what has been posted here by the Erie
>Goshin practicioners. Who is correct?
I don't want to play politics, but the fact is that Gerald Durant passed
on the system to his son , Matt. Unfortunately, Matt was only a godan or
maybe Rokudan when his father died. MAtt is fairly young to be soke, and
he has taken the title of dai soke until he is a bit older. I admire him
for this. I know Ralph is a senior student, but certaily Steve Capela or
Vince Christiano have more seniority than he, and they have supported
Matt per his father's wishes. That is about all I can say on this. Ralph
is not the only one to lay claim to soke ship, as BOb Bohach has made the
same claim you attribute to Ralph. This is not right, as I believe in the
absence of a Japanese lineage, Mr Durant is the rightful heir of the ryu
, and he passed it on to Matt.
I believe you know why I chose not to remain involved in the Goshin Jutsu
Yudan shakai, I hold legitimate yondan rank in GJKJ and under the Akai
tatsu remnei of the MizuHi Kobukan Shinto ryu Kobukai. I don't teach or
practice Goshin per se, so I really don't let this whole thing bother me
too much anymore.
Hope this helps,
Wild Bill
Wild Bill
THanks,
WIld Bill
mopho
i'm glad to see you could contribute something meaningful to the
discussion. by the way, i think there is something wrong with your CAPS
LOCK.
