IronPalm
DrandTi
Is there much of a difference between Shaolin Iron Palm and Korean Steel
Palm?
StephieXXX
origninal post by dra...@aol.com (DrandTi) on 18 Apr 1997 20:42:11 GMT
>Is there much of a difference between Shaolin Iron Palm and Korean
>Steel Palm?
and Goju/Uechi ryu Palm Heel and Horseshoe Palm and same in other Okinawan
karate?
(Horseshoe Palm hits with inside of knuckes at the top of the palm. Any
tips of joint alignment on this)
xxx
N8iveFL
Iron Palm refers to a type of conditioning using a combination of
exercises and herbal linaments (Dit Ja Jow) unique to Kung-fu.
The others (as far as I know) refer to hand position.
>Is there much of a difference between Shaolin Iron Palm and Korean
>Steel Palm?
>and Goju/Uechi ryu Palm Heel and Horseshoe Palm and same in other
Okinawan
>karate?
>(Horseshoe Palm hits with inside of knuckes at the top of the palm. Any
>tips of joint alignment on this)
Steve
"I gotta get me a new hat"-Bullwinkle/
S.Co...@AOL.com
Randy
StephieXXX wrote:
>
> origninal post by dra...@aol.com (DrandTi) on 18 Apr 1997 20:42:11 GMT
>
> >Is there much of a difference between Shaolin Iron Palm and Korean
> >Steel Palm?
>
> and Goju/Uechi ryu Palm Heel and Horseshoe Palm and same in other Okinawan
> karate?
>
> (Horseshoe Palm hits with inside of knuckes at the top of the palm. Any
> tips of joint alignment on this)
> xxx
Don't forget "Baszarra", the iron palm art of the Vikings. They used it
to punch through ship's hulls.
:)
Randy-ola
--
Randy Schaub
ra...@meitx.com
/\ /\
/ \_/ \ ____
\_ _/ / / El
/ * * \ /^^^]
\_\O/_/ [ ] ZORRO
/ \ [ /
\ \_ / / BLANCO
[ [ / \/ _/
_[ [ \ /_/
[[[ [[[ [[[
Pete R.
On Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:56:14 GMT, qima...@hotmail.com ( Richard M.
Mooney) wrote:
>I do know however that the iron palm uses iron because the iron has properties which bond to
>your skin at a molecular level (according to Master Brian Gray, the foremost western authority
>on the subject).
Assuming that something so ludicrous could be true, a layer of iron a
few molecules thick wouldn't even provide the strength of wrapping
your hand in aluminum foil. I don't see a metallic sheen on Master
Brian Gray's hands in his Iron Palm ads either. Perhaps the Qi of the
iron and not the molecules themselves adhere to the hand, eh? ;)
Ah well, I guess an explanation like callouses and other toughening
adaptations just isn't mystical or flashy enough if you wanna be a Qi
Master. While you may attact the gullible with that sort of nonsense,
the drawback is that you will lose credibility among those blessed
with more than half a brain. Then again I suppose all you need is the
gullible anyway, so you may as well really pour it on.
Pete
Brian C. Allen
First of all if any atoms do bond, then of course it is on the
molecular level. So there is nothing wrong with say that.
I do however question the validity of the above quote acredited to
Brian Gray.
I am quite familiar with his teaching on Iron Palm and it was
my experience that he said that he was taught that the iron mixed
with the herbs in his particular formula of dit da jow combine to
condition the skin. My experience is that the skin in turn
becomes more 'elastic' or rubbery, more heat and pain resistant,
and less likely to be cut or torn.
Also, iron palm conditioning NEVER gave me callouses, and if one
follows the Gray method, one should not get callouses.
BCA
Gerald Moffatt
In article <335AD9...@udel.edu>, "Brian C. Allen" <b...@udel.edu> wrote:
..snip...
>I am quite familiar with his teaching on Iron Palm and it was
>my experience that he said that he was taught that the iron mixed
>with the herbs in his particular formula of dit da jow combine to
>condition the skin. My experience is that the skin in turn
>becomes more 'elastic' or rubbery, more heat and pain resistant,
>and less likely to be cut or torn.
>
>Also, iron palm conditioning NEVER gave me callouses, and if one
>follows the Gray method, one should not get callouses.
My training was in Pak Sing Fut Ga which has an indirect claim to Gu Yu Cheung
as one of its sijo and thus to iron palm as a core technique. The
(apocryphal?) legend is that the style was founded by an exchange of senior
students after Gu Yu Cheung (northern Shaolin) and Tom Sum (Choy Li Fut)
fought to a draw. Gu Yu Cheung was probably the best (and certainly the most
famous) exponent of the iron palm this century.
My style's training methods include the full complement of aids such as bags
of peas and filings, etc., combined with use of dit da jow liniment.
Nonetheless (and despite the assertions to the contrary by luminaries such as
Chicoine and Gray and their disciples), I think the iron palm technique is not
nearly as esoteric as purported and can be developed without the "whole
catastrophe" of accessories.
Regards,
Robert J. Mallis
In article <3358094...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, qima...@hotmail.com
says...
>I do know however that the iron palm uses iron because the iron has
properties w
>hich bond to
>your skin at a molecular level
You've got to be kidding. Does this mean the Iron palm practitioner's
hands respond unusually well to magnetic fields???
>(according to Master Brian Gray, the foremost wes
>tern authority
>on the subject). Traditional shaolin iron palm is also a 3 year gradual
process
> of training.
>
>For reference please pick up both of Brian's books on the subject, or
his videos
>. have a nice
>day.
I'll check out the books if I can find them, but when talking about
biological molecular mechanisms, it is necessary to cite references in
biochemical journals. Do you have any of those?
There are many proteins which use iron in normal functioning. There are
also proteins which sequester iron when there is too much around.
However, the purpose of these proteins is to keep free iron out of the
cytosol of cells since free iron is toxic in the presence of redox
compounds. Thus an overload of iron in a biological system will result
in the body trying to sequester it, then excrete it. I'm not even sure
that being in contact with iron will allow you to absorb that iron into
the tissues of the body in the first place...
My point is this: Don't fall into the Star Trek script syndrome of using
technospeak when understanding of a subject is limited. If you are going
to explain something, understand it, and be able to either back up your
statement or admit that you don't know about it. It's nothing personal,
but I'm a biochemist by trade and when people misinterpret biochemical
mechanisms, I feel a need to correct them...
Regards,
Bob Mallis
Pete R.
In article <335AD9...@udel.edu>, b...@udel.edu says...
>I am quite familiar with his teaching on Iron Palm and it was
>my experience that he said that he was taught that the iron mixed
>with the herbs in his particular formula of dit da jow combine to
>condition the skin.
I have no problem with the notion of conditioning the skin, however
the explanation that iron "has properties that bond to your skin
at the molecular level" is mystical claptrap. Some people seem
to glom onto explanations just because they sound deep and mystical.
However IMO such explanations only help to ruin the credibility of
a subject.
bill...@juno.com
On Mon, 21 Apr 97 06:08:19 GMT, moff...@cadvision.com (Gerald
Moffatt) wrote:
>In article <335AD9...@udel.edu>, "Brian C. Allen" <b...@udel.edu> wrote:
>..snip...
>>I am quite familiar with his teaching on Iron Palm and it was
>>my experience that he said that he was taught that the iron mixed
>>with the herbs in his particular formula of dit da jow combine to
>>condition the skin. My experience is that the skin in turn
>>becomes more 'elastic' or rubbery, more heat and pain resistant,
>>and less likely to be cut or torn.
>>
>>Also, iron palm conditioning NEVER gave me callouses, and if one
>>follows the Gray method, one should not get callouses.
>..snip...
>
>My training was in Pak Sing Fut Ga which has an indirect claim to Gu Yu Cheung
>as one of its sijo and thus to iron palm as a core technique. The
>(apocryphal?) legend is that the style was founded by an exchange of senior
>students after Gu Yu Cheung (northern Shaolin) and Tom Sum (Choy Li Fut)
>fought to a draw. Gu Yu Cheung was probably the best (and certainly the most
>famous) exponent of the iron palm this century.
But he was from the Internal school wasnt he?
bill...@juno.com
On Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:12:52 GMT, mofo...@hotmail.com (Pete R.)
wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Apr 1997 23:56:14 GMT, qima...@hotmail.com ( Richard M.
>Mooney) wrote:
>
>
>>I do know however that the iron palm uses iron because the iron has properties which bond to
>>your skin at a molecular level (according to Master Brian Gray, the foremost western authority
>>on the subject).
>
>Assuming that something so ludicrous could be true, a layer of iron a
>few molecules thick wouldn't even provide the strength of wrapping
>your hand in aluminum foil. I don't see a metallic sheen on Master
>Brian Gray's hands in his Iron Palm ads either. Perhaps the Qi of the
>iron and not the molecules themselves adhere to the hand, eh? ;)
>Ah well, I guess an explanation like callouses and other toughening
>adaptations just isn't mystical or flashy enough if you wanna be a Qi
>Master. While you may attact the gullible with that sort of nonsense,
>the drawback is that you will lose credibility among those blessed
>with more than half a brain. Then again I suppose all you need is the
>gullible anyway, so you may as well really pour it on.
>
>Pete
Pete, you should really grow up and get more info on the subject.
Iron palm does not make calloses and is not the same as rubbing your
hands together for a long time. See are real demonstration, or better
yet, prove to the world that it does not add power to the strikes and
volunteer to get hit by someone that has done the training for a few
years.
I dont agree that Grey is an authority on iron palm. Nor the "master
of iron palm". He's just a guy. And his methods are safe and, well,
different.
Can **You** slap through concrete?
bill...@juno.com
On 21 Apr 1997 14:47:21 GMT, mal...@iastate.edu (Robert J. Mallis)
wrote:
>
>In article <3358094...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, qima...@hotmail.com
>says...
>
>>I do know however that the iron palm uses iron because the iron has
>properties w
>>hich bond to
>>your skin at a molecular level
>
>You've got to be kidding. Does this mean the Iron palm practitioner's
>hands respond unusually well to magnetic fields???
Come on. Not any more that your blood does.....
>>(according to Master Brian Gray, the foremost wes
>>tern authority
>>on the subject). Traditional shaolin iron palm is also a 3 year gradual
>process
>> of training.
>>
>>For reference please pick up both of Brian's books on the subject, or
>his videos
>>. have a nice
>>day.
>
I talked to a guy that uses his formulas, and he said his skin is
reall tough, and leathery. One guy could not even get a cut stitched
up at the hospital.
So, something about his formula is different.
Pete R.
On 21 Apr 1997 22:23:01 GMT, bill...@juno.com wrote:
>Pete, you should really grow up and get more info on the subject.
>Iron palm does not make calloses and is not the same as rubbing your
>hands together for a long time. See are real demonstration, or better
>yet, prove to the world that it does not add power to the strikes and
>volunteer to get hit by someone that has done the training for a few
>years.
Don't patronize me, learn how to read. I said nothing about the
technique or value, power or lack thereof, or anything to do with
iron palm technique. I took issue with the *explanation* of the
need for iron and how its "properties bond with your skin at
the molecular level". I think giving pseudo-mystical explanations
for something like conditioning your hand only makes the
subject seem hokey, which is a disservice to what may involve
legitimate technique.
Gerald Moffatt
In article <5jgpg4$iqu$3...@news.gte.net>, bill...@juno.com wrote:
..snip...
>But he was from the Internal school wasnt he?
No, he was external school - but if you believe the stories, he apparently
had some of the nifty mystical properties of the internal school, such as the
selective ability to break certain bricks in a pile (as per his most famous
photo). This may be a matter of pure technique (if so, it is far beyond my
ability to explain, let alone emulate). This also assumes it wasn't
chicanery such as "green" bricks, or the later embroidery of the legend by
hero-worshippers. ( I'm 99% sure he wasn't a fake, but I don't know about his
"press agents"), In any case the man apparently had great skill, and I'm
proud to bask in his distantly reflected glory.
Regards,
DrandTi
I had read about the Korean Steel Palm in the June 1997 edition of Inside
Kung Fu.
Zon Chen
Pete R. wrote:
>
> Don't patronize me, learn how to read. I said nothing about the
> technique or value, power or lack thereof, or anything to do with
> iron palm technique. I took issue with the *explanation* of the
> need for iron and how its "properties bond with your skin at
> the molecular level". I think giving pseudo-mystical explanations
> for something like conditioning your hand only makes the
> subject seem hokey, which is a disservice to what may involve
> legitimate technique.
I dont get why some people cant swallow the traditional/mystical
explanation/aspect of martial arts. C'mon, with other arts, you can sit
there and look at a blob of red paint on a blue background and say all
sorts of deep & meaningful rubbish and be respected, so why not? If the
traditional explanation explains required theory adequately, and sounds
cool besides, why do you need to sciencify things so? Some people want
to learn martial arts, not anatomy, science, physics, blah. (Perhaps the
theory aspect of martial arts, despite being under fire as being
inaccurate, and hocus-pocus, is useful as an abbreviated,
application-specific, version of all those topics.)
I wonder how many people who post here are really martial artists, or
people interested in becoming martial-artists, as opposed to yobbo
armswingers. (or for those slightly more proficient, legswingers)
(People who fight/talk about fighting)
Or hey, just plain swingers, who have wandered in into the wrong group.
("What? It's not rec.martial-arts.sex.group.fetish???? :P )
-zonchen
bill...@juno.com
On Mon, 21 Apr 97 06:08:19 GMT, moff...@cadvision.com (Gerald
Moffatt) wrote:
>My training was in Pak Sing Fut Ga which has an indirect claim to Gu Yu Cheung
>as one of its sijo and thus to iron palm as a core technique. The
>(apocryphal?) legend is that the style was founded by an exchange of senior
>students after Gu Yu Cheung (northern Shaolin) and Tom Sum (Choy Li Fut)
>fought to a draw. Gu Yu Cheung was probably the best (and certainly the most
>famous) exponent of the iron palm this century.
>
>My style's training methods include the full complement of aids such as bags
>of peas and filings, etc., combined with use of dit da jow liniment.
>Nonetheless (and despite the assertions to the contrary by luminaries such as
>Chicoine and Gray and their disciples), I think the iron palm technique is not
>nearly as esoteric as purported and can be developed without the "whole
>catastrophe" of accessories.
>
>Regards,
I agree. There are lots of iron palm techniques. I'm suprised how
many DONT use chi kung (qigong) or chi kung (hay gung) breathing
techniques however.
There seems to be a lot of dissagreement as to materials to use.
Use/Dont use: filings, sand, ect.
I hear some schools do 2 hours of training?!
Some people are doing as much as 25 strikes 2 or three times a day and
some are doing 5 strikes as little as once or twice per day.
And some techniques use no bags/thrusting buckets at all.
Regardless, its the application of the palm thats important.