Prelude to Obama Medical care
Herbert Cannon
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aHoYSI84VdL0
Wannabe
"Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> wrote in message news:KX3%m.39$5m.
1...@newsfe12.iad...
> Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aHoYSI84VdL0
>
>
Relax, you merely have a bit of a learning curve.
Canada's universal health insurance system is, in a sense, just like
your private health insurance system, except that the Canadian
government is picking up the tab for the insurance premium for every
Canadian citizen automatically. Our doctors still file insurance
claims to our state-run provincial insurance company for their
services provided to their patients.
Blue-Cross is the only private health insurance company I know that is
getting business from Canadians who want extra coverage that our
provincial insurance company does not cover (e.g. hospital cost while
vacationing in your swamps).
I believer the major opponents to your Medicare are your big time
health insurance companies' political lobbies, and fools like you who
have bought into their fear mongering.
suds mcduff
> Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aHoYSI84VdL0
>
>
----Wasn't Medicare last reformed under a Repub admin and Congress?
suds mcduff
> Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aHoYSI84VdL0
"Congress last week postponed for two months a 21.5 percent cut in
Medicare reimbursements for doctors. "
---How did Repubs vote, Dim?
Robert Berenson, a fellow at the Urban Institute�s Health Policy Center
in Washington, D.C., said physicians� claims of inadequate reimbursement
are overstated. Rather, the program faces a lack of medical providers
because not enough new doctors are becoming family doctors, internists
and pediatricians who oversee patients� primary care.
�Some primary care doctors don�t have to see Medicare patients because
there is an unlimited demand for their services,� Berenson said. When
patients with private insurance can be treated at 50 percent to 100
percent higher fees, �then Medicare does indeed look like a poor payer,�
he said.
----Proof positive that a public option is necessary....
Many Americans are happy with Mexico's.....A guy on the news had a hip
replacement there for 13k all inclusive....hotel room, transport to and
from the hospital, everything....
Herbert Cannon
Herbert Cannon
"suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hhiog6$54f$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>> Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients
>> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aHoYSI84VdL0
>
>
> "Congress last week postponed for two months a 21.5 percent cut in
> Medicare reimbursements for doctors. "
>
> ---How did Repubs vote, Dim?
>
> Washington, D.C., said physicians� claims of inadequate reimbursement are
> overstated.
And I am sure the treating physicians say that Dr. Berenson claim of their
claims being overstated is understated. I personally know of a physician
that treated two medicare patients last week and was reimbursed $16. Do you
think that covered his overhead of a nurse and a receptionist? He was livid.
I know of three Drs that refuse to take any govt money. One told me that he
had to keep 4 clerks just to fill out the paperwork.
I go to one of them because he is good. I am really enjoying my non-existent
govt health insurance there you big ass.
Rather, the program faces a lack of medical providers
> because not enough new doctors are becoming family doctors, internists and
> pediatricians who oversee patients� primary care.
Yes there are fewer family physicians but the solution is not a mandate by
government that one cannot become a specialist ( as Clinton wanted to do).
If you do that, you lower the quality of medical care. Which seems to be the
sole aim of socialist - to spread the misery everywhere.
The solution is more medical schools turning out more family physicians.
That is a long term solution and a hard one. Congress is simply going after
the quick fix, as always, so they can wave a 1000 page monstrosity around
which will further strain the treasury and break it in another giveaway
prograim and which will fuck every thing up in the long run. No wonder the
whole mess is scheduled for 2014 and not right away. Ask yourself why they
are not under this brilliant plan.
The reason the politicians do not call pediatricians specialist ( which they
are) is because they do not want a horde of angry mothers on their
doorsteps. When I was a lad, the GP served as the pediatrician. If you
wanted a pediatrician, you went to the big city.
>
> �Some primary care doctors don�t have to see Medicare patients because
> there is an unlimited demand for their services,� Berenson said.
Horseshit. There is an unlimited demand for every Doctors services. None are
sitting around waiting for patients you moron.
When
> patients with private insurance can be treated at 50 percent to 100
> percent higher fees, �then Medicare does indeed look like a poor payer,�
> he said.
When? When is that? There is 70 billion of fraud in medicare. Maybe they
ought to try and fix that first instead of fucking it all up with more
legislated fraud.
>
> ----Proof positive that a public option is necessary....
> Many Americans are happy with Mexico's
HAHAHAHAHA. Yeah I see Americans flocking to Mexico for treatment. Are you
really this fucking dumb?
.....A guy on the news had a hip
> replacement there for 13k all inclusive....hotel room, transport to and
> from the hospital, everything....
A guy? Really a guy? No shit a guy? Next time find some other numb nut with
better sense to quote other than a former Carter administration official in
some left wing think tank.
Herbert Cannon
Write three letters.
Herbert Cannon
> ----Wasn't Medicare last reformed under a Repub admin and Congress?
They are no longer there. How are your three letters coming along? You are
on the third one now.
Herbert Cannon
> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>> Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients
>> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aHoYSI84VdL0
>
>
> "Congress last week postponed for two months a 21.5 percent cut in
> Medicare reimbursements for doctors. "
>
> ---How did Repubs vote, Dim?
Who cares? The Dems have control of the congress and the white house.
Wannabe
"Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> wrote in message news:FIm%m.
2153$Gf3....@newsfe22.iad...
>
The video is full of lies and exaggerations. If you blindly believe
those propaganda from you big-time insurance companies which are
trying to protect their monopoly in gouging you fools, you don't
deserve to have everything that you don't have.
Up here in Toronto, Canada, I choose my own family doctor who operates
out of his own medical office in some commercial building. If it is
some simple matter, he will just prescribe me some medicine and I will
bring the prescription to be filled by a pharmacist in some drugstore
or even in Wal-Mart. I have to pay the drugstore for the medicine, but
my own company covers 80% of the cost. The drugs are free for senior
citizens except for an administration cost of $2 each time.
If I have an ailment that require special care, my doctor will make an
appointing for me with a specialist. The specialist may be a doctor in
a hospital or a doctor with his own private practice in some
commercial building. The specialists will not see any patient without
referral.
If I have an emergency that I cannot wait to see my own family doctor,
I either call an ambulance or drive to the emergency room in a
hospital. It is true that the emergency cases are screened by the
paramedics in the ambulance and by the nurses in the emergency room to
determine the seriousness of the "emergency". But think of it this
way, if everybody is faking injuries like the guys in your video, then
the doctors in the hospital will be wasting their valuable time in
treating jokers instead of saving lives. Do you think your private
insurace companies down in the U.S. will keep paying for your bogus
trips to the emergency room?
Basically, our public medical insurance operates much the same way as
your private medical insurance. We don't have to pay the insurance
premium because the government picks up the tab.
Why do you think your insurance industry doesn't like Medicare? It is
because Medicare is good for your and bad for them.
Herbert Cannon
The US has 183 % more CT Scanners than Canada.
If the Canadian govt says no to an MRI you cannot get it even if you are
willing to pay for it.
Doctors in the US perform twice as many in patient surgical procedures than
Canadian Doctors.
Less than half 44% of all new drugs approved by the Canadian govt in 2004
were covered by the govt insurance program in Oct 2007. To get them - a one
year wait on average.
1.7 million Canadians - aobut 5% of the population - couldnt acess a family
physician in 2007.
Four years ago, the average waiting time of non - urgent cardiac surgery (
which can become urgent in a hurry) in Manitoba was nineteen days. Today it
is twenty seven days.
Colorectal cancer rate are much higher in Canada ( 6.7 per 100, 000) than
in the US ( 4.8 per 100,000). Even though colorectal cancer is trhe second
leading cause of death in Canada, the drug Avastin - the standard treatment
in the US - is not available in Canada through the govt health system.
" What is going on in Canada is shameful," says Barry D Stein, president of
the Colorectal Cancer Association of Canada.
A second drug for colorectal cancer, Erbitus, which the govt approved at the
same time has not even been launched in Canada - because the bureaucrats at
the Patent Medicine Prices Review Board cannot agree on a price.
To improve services the Canadian health care system has set certain goals or
bench marks. It is hoping that it can cut the wait for radiation therapy to
four to eight weeks. If only cancer were understanding enough to wait. my
brother in law was scheduled in the week he was diagnosed.
You cannot even pay for own health care. It is illegal.
No thanks to Nanny state total govt controlled health care. Keep it in
Canada.
Slyvia DeVries, Lindsay Mc Creith, Shona Holmes, Bill Murray, Brian
Sinclair - all Canadian health care horror stories. Brian Sinclair was
discovered dead after a thirty four hour wait in a Manitoba Canada hospital
emerbency room. He never saw a Doctor or nurse.
Those were Canadians Crowder was interviewing in the video, moron.
Wannabe
"Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> wrote in message news:UEv%m.
909$ZB2...@newsfe13.iad...
>
>
> The US has 327 % more MRI units than Canada.
> The US has 183 % more CT Scanners than Canada.
Use your brain. The US has 10 time the Canadian population. That means
you have less than 1/3 of our MRI and CT Scanner per capita.
> If the Canadian govt says no to an MRI you cannot get it even if you are
> willing to pay for it.
My family doctor or specialist will refer me to have MRI done if I
need it. The decision of MRI is in the doctors and specialists, not
the government.
> Doctors in the US perform twice as many in patient surgical procedures than
> Canadian Doctors.
I have heard horror stories in the U.S. that the doctors remove your
organs unnecessarily just because he knows you have insurance.
> Less than half 44% of all new drugs approved by the Canadian govt in 2004
> were covered by the govt insurance program in Oct 2007. To get them - a one
> year wait on average.
This is mis-information. Drugs are only free to seniors and the very
poor. Other than that, I think a patient does not have to pay for the
drugs administered by the hospital while being an in-patient.
> 1.7 million Canadians - aobut 5% of the population - couldnt acess a family
> physician in 2007.
That is absurd. General practitioners run their own private practices.
They might be illegals, or living in extremely remote places. You
cannot expect to find a doctor opening a practice in the middle of
nowhere.
> Four years ago, the average waiting time of non - urgent cardiac surgery (
> which can become urgent in a hurry) in Manitoba was nineteen days. Today it
> is twenty seven days.
The keyword is "non-urgent".
> Colorectal cancer rate are much higher in Canada ( 6.7 per 100, 000) than
> in the US ( 4.8 per 100,000). Even though colorectal cancer is trhe second
> leading cause of death in Canada, the drug Avastin - the standard treatment
> in the US - is not available in Canada through the govt health system.
> " What is going on in Canada is shameful," says Barry D Stein, president of
> the Colorectal Cancer Association of Canada.
> A second drug for colorectal cancer, Erbitus, which the govt approved at the
> same time has not even been launched in Canada - because the bureaucrats at
> the Patent Medicine Prices Review Board cannot agree on a price.
Canada may have a more stringent drug approval procedure than in the
U.S. There are too many unsafe drugs slipping through all these years.
> To improve services the Canadian health care system has set certain goals or
> bench marks. It is hoping that it can cut the wait for radiation therapy to
> four to eight weeks. If only cancer were understanding enough to wait. my
> brother in law was scheduled in the week he was diagnosed.
The doctor decides the waiting period. It is understandable that
everybody wants to jump the queue.
> You cannot even pay for own health care. It is illegal.
> No thanks to Nanny state total govt controlled health care. Keep it in
> Canada.
That is what the big insurance companies in the U.S. are hoping for.
> Slyvia DeVries, Lindsay Mc Creith, Shona Holmes, Bill Murray, Brian
> Sinclair - all Canadian health care horror stories. Brian Sinclair was
> discovered dead after a thirty four hour wait in a Manitoba Canada hospital
> emerbency room. He never saw a Doctor or nurse.
> Those were Canadians Crowder was interviewing in the video, moron.
>
>
There are evern more emergency room horror stories in the U.S.
The case of Brian Sinclair is a tragedy. His death is more of a
social problem than health care problem. Brian Sinclair is an
aboriginal (you'd call an injun). These under-privileged people are
mostly drunkards living on the street. The hospitals treat street-
people too because everybody is covered, but in Winnipeg these
aboriginals are always hanging around the emergency room in the winter
to keep warm. It is no surprise that he was dead without being noticed
because people are so used to seeing them lying around.
Herbert Cannon
"Wannabe" <wannabeso...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1bff8bbb-eec6-413e...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>
> "Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> wrote in message news:UEv%m.
> 909$ZB2...@newsfe13.iad...
>>
>>
>> The US has 327 % more MRI units than Canada.
>> The US has 183 % more CT Scanners than Canada.
>
> Use your brain. The US has 10 time the Canadian population. That means
> you have less than 1/3 of our MRI and CT Scanner per capita.
Use yours these are %
>
>
>
>> If the Canadian govt says no to an MRI you cannot get it even if you are
>> willing to pay for it.
>
> My family doctor or specialist will refer me to have MRI done if I
> need it. The decision of MRI is in the doctors and specialists, not
> the government.
>
>
>> Doctors in the US perform twice as many in patient surgical procedures
>> than
>> Canadian Doctors.
>
> I have heard horror stories in the U.S. that the doctors remove your
> organs unnecessarily just because he knows you have insurance.
You heard wrong and fuck your left wing propaganda bullshit, Fuckwit. end of
story.
Besides you were the moron crowing about terrorists trying to hunt down
Americans in Mumbai, asshole. Would you like to try and hunt me down?
Take your nanny state leftwing commie bullshit and stuff it up your ass.
Wannabe
"Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> wrote in message news:u1H%m.
3396$XU....@newsfe03.iad...
>
>
>> I have heard horror stories in the U.S. that the doctors remove your
>> organs unnecessarily just because he knows you have insurance.
>
> You heard wrong and fuck your left wing propaganda bullshit, Fuckwit. end of
> story.
>
>
As I said, you deserve not to have everything you don't have. You keep
believing lies from your rightard propaganda.
Everybody Canadian citizen is covered by medical insurace with the
insurance premium paid for by the government. It is a shame that your
country has a third-world status in health care. Read it and weep, you
idiot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
At least 15% of the population is completely uninsured, and a
substantial additional portion of the population is "underinsured", or
less than fully insured for medical costs they might incur. More money
per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any
other nation in the world, and a greater percentage of total income in
the nation is spent on health care in the U.S. than in any United
Nations member state except for East Timor. Despite the fact that not
all citizens are covered, the United States has the third highest
public healthcare expenditure per capita.[8][9] Medical debt is the
principal cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States.
Herbert Cannon
> At least 15% of the population is completely uninsured, and a
> substantial additional portion of the population is "underinsured
The young who dont need it and illegal immigrants who should not have it
fuckwit.
Wannabe
"Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> wrote in message news:yWI%m.
13819$DY5....@newsfe08.iad...
The WHO ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost,
37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health. The
only thing that ranks high is the "responsiveness" because your
doctors are almost like "ambulance chasers"- too eager to cart you
into the hospital to operate on you (if you can pay) whether you need
it or not. Read the second paragraph of the same article and weep, you
fool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
Active debate about health care reform in the United Statesconcerns
questions of a right to health care, access, fairness, efficiency,
cost, and quality. Many have argued that the system does not deliver
equivalent value for the money spent. The US pays twice as much yet
lags behind other wealthy nations in such measures as infant mortality
and life expectancy. Currently the U.S. has a higher infant mortality
rate than most of the world's industrialized nations.[nb 1][11] The
USA's life expectancy lags 42nd in the world, after most rich nations,
lagging last of the G5 (Japan, France, Germany, UK, USA) and just
after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th).[12][13][14] The USA's life
expectancy is ranked 50th in the world after the European Union (40th).
[15][16] The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S.
health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness,
37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health
(among 191 member nations included in the study).[17][18] A 2008
report by theCommonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the
quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.[19]
Herbert Cannon
>
> "Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> wrote in message news:yWI%m.
> 13819$DY5....@newsfe08.iad...
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
>>> At least 15% of the population is completely uninsured, and a
>>> substantial additional portion of the population is "underinsured
>>
>> The young who dont need it and illegal immigrants who should not have it
>>
>
>
> The WHO ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost,
> 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health.
That has already been discussed here. WHO is just like you, full of shit.
The
> only thing that ranks high is the "responsiveness" because your
> doctors are almost like "ambulance chasers"- too eager to cart you
> into the hospital to operate on you (if you can pay) whether you need
> it or not.
How the fuck would you know, you little creep, you dont live here.
Read the second paragraph of the same article and weep, you
> fool.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
>
Wiki is an open system to which anyone can contribute. Most colleges and
universities, if not all, do not allow wiki to be cited as a primary source.
Now run off and fuck yourself.
trav...@aol.com
> "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno...@cox.net> wrote in message news:FIm%m.
>
> 2153$Gf3.1...@newsfe22.iad...
Where does the government get the money?
Do you have a demographic in your population who shoots each other
routinely and has the highest obesity rates on the planet?
You think government money comes for free, don't you?
Canada and the US are not comparable. Your system could not run
without ours.
Oh, and the healthcare bill was a HUGE bailout and subsidy of private
insurers.
Trav
trav...@aol.com
> "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno...@cox.net> wrote in message news:u1H%m.
>
> 3396$XU.2...@newsfe03.iad...
Sounds like we have a cost problem. Changing who pays for health care
will not change the cost problem.
Trav
suds mcduff
> "suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hhiog6$54f$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>>> Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients
>>> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aHoYSI84VdL0
>>
>> "Congress last week postponed for two months a 21.5 percent cut in
>> Medicare reimbursements for doctors. "
>>
>> ---How did Repubs vote, Dim?
>>
>> Washington, D.C., said physicians� claims of inadequate reimbursement are
>
> And I am sure the treating physicians say that Dr. Berenson claim of their
> claims being overstated is understated. I personally know of a physician
> that treated two medicare patients last week and was reimbursed $16. Do you
> think that covered his overhead of a nurse and a receptionist? He was livid.
> I know of three Drs that refuse to take any govt money. One told me that he
> had to keep 4 clerks just to fill out the paperwork.
----That's why they need to streamline the process
electronically.....that's the saving money part, Dim....
> I go to one of them because he is good. I am really enjoying my non-existent
> govt health insurance there you big ass.
----Trcare's not administered by the govt, Dim?
>
> Rather, the program faces a lack of medical providers
>> because not enough new doctors are becoming family doctors, internists and
>> pediatricians who oversee patients� primary care.
>
> Yes there are fewer family physicians but the solution is not a mandate by
> government that one cannot become a specialist ( as Clinton wanted to do).
----Nonsense...
> If you do that, you lower the quality of medical care. Which seems to be the
> sole aim of socialist - to spread the misery everywhere.
----Everyones else is quite happy with thier free med care, Dim....
> The solution is more medical schools turning out more family physicians.
> That is a long term solution and a hard one. Congress is simply going after
> the quick fix, as always, so they can wave a 1000 page monstrosity around
> which will further strain the treasury
----The only thing rightards think doesn't strain the Treasury is war....
and break it in another giveaway
> prograim and which will fuck every thing up in the long run. No wonder the
> whole mess is scheduled for 2014 and not right away. Ask yourself why they
> are not under this brilliant plan.
----Not a brilliant plan without a public option...
> The reason the politicians do not call pediatricians specialist ( which they
> are) is because they do not want a horde of angry mothers on their
> doorsteps. When I was a lad, the GP served as the pediatrician. If you
> wanted a pediatrician, you went to the big city.
----Most people live in or near big cities, Dim....no one much cares
about your rube upbringing...
>> �Some primary care doctors don�t have to see Medicare patients because
>> there is an unlimited demand for their services,� Berenson said.
>
> Horseshit. There is an unlimited demand for every Doctors services. None are
> sitting around waiting for patients you moron.
----Actually, some do troll for patients....my wife had a job for a Dr,
calling previous patients to come in for check ups....
> When
>> patients with private insurance can be treated at 50 percent to 100
>> percent higher fees, �then Medicare does indeed look like a poor payer,�
>> he said.
>
> When? When is that? There is 70 billion of fraud in medicare. Maybe they
> ought to try and fix that first instead of fucking it all up with more
> legislated fraud.
---Well, they will fix that, Dim....it's funny how the right has all of
a sudden taken such an interest in Medicare.....They voted against it
initially, and have always hated it...
>> ----Proof positive that a public option is necessary....
>> Many Americans are happy with Mexico's
>
> HAHAHAHAHA. Yeah I see Americans flocking to Mexico for treatment.
----Thousands, Dim...
Are you
> really this fucking dumb?
----Looks like you're the dummy here, Dim...do you watch the news?
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec09/mexico_12-28.html
----How's that crow taste, Dim?
>
> .....A guy on the news had a hip
>> replacement there for 13k all inclusive....hotel room, transport to and
>> from the hospital, everything....
>
> A guy? Really a guy? No shit a guy?
No shit, Dim, his name's Stan Packard, he's in this piece:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec09/mexico_12-28.html
----How's that shit taste, Dim?
Next time find some other numb nut with
> better sense to quote other than a former Carter administration official in
> some left wing think tank.
------BWAHAHA....rejecting no matter how valid or factual eh, Dim?
What a hypocrite....
Sorry, Dim, the "left wing thinktank" uses only govt figures....and is
considered non partisan by legitimate news sources...that doesn't
include Fox, BTW...
suds mcduff
----Just as I thought....Repub hypocrite to the core....
suds mcduff
----You are wasting time quoting facts for a brainwashed rightard like
Dim....he'll only accept youtube as a resource...
Wannabe
I wonder if Dim knows those numbers in square brackets in the text are
footnotes at the bottom of the page supporting those claims. Hey! What
am I saying? Of course Dim is too stupid to know.
Wannabe
wrote:
Yes, changing who pays for health care will change the cost problem.
Let's say you have health insurance coverage. Do you think your
insurance company will pay if you go out and get MRI done every other
week just for fun? Our government-run health insurance monopoly sets
up a guideline for the maximum frequency of routine checkup you can
obtain (no limit if your doctor determines you actually require it).
Or, do you think your insurance company will pay if your surgeon tries
to bill you $1,000,000 just for removing your appendix? In the U.S.,
it is possible for the doctors to gouge your and decline to treat you
if you (or your insurance company) don't pay up. In Canada, however,
health insurance is a government monopoly. The doctors cannot take
money directly from the patients, and must make insurance claims to
that monopoly. The monopoly, in consultation with the health care
industry, can set up a table of reasonable rates for all of the health
services. Of course they must balance the rates with the doctors'
costs, otherwise the doctors will pack up and go to the U.S. This way,
the doctors will make a decent buck out of their expertise, and the
patients (actually the tax payers) are paying the bottom dollars.
ha4h...@kent.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me
> On Jan 3, 10:26�am, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>> On Jan 2, 9:18�am, Wannabe <wannabesomeoneca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno...@cox.net> wrote in message news:u1H%m.
>>
>> > 3396$XU.2...@newsfe03.iad...
>>
>> Sounds like we have a cost problem. �Changing who pays for health care
>> will not change the cost problem.
>>
>> Trav
>
> Yes, changing who pays for health care will change the cost problem.
>
> Let's say you have health insurance coverage. Do you think your
> insurance company will pay if you go out and get MRI done every other
> week just for fun? Our government-run health insurance monopoly sets
> up a guideline for the maximum frequency of routine checkup you can
> obtain (no limit if your doctor determines you actually require it).
>
> Or, do you think your insurance company will pay if your surgeon tries
> to bill you $1,000,000 just for removing your appendix? In the U.S.,
> it is possible for the doctors to gouge your and decline to treat you
> if you (or your insurance company) don't pay up. In Canada, however,
> health insurance is a government monopoly. The doctors cannot take
> money directly from the patients, and must make insurance claims to
> that monopoly. The monopoly, in consultation with the health care
> industry, can set up a table of reasonable rates for all of the health
> services. Of course they must balance the rates with the doctors'
> costs, otherwise the doctors will pack up and go to the U.S. This way,
> the doctors will make a decent buck out of their expertise, and the
> patients (actually the tax payers) are paying the bottom dollars.
I'm sure all that works well in fantasy. And that's what politicians use
to convince dupes to vote for their self-enriching policies. My first
question would be: do you think they do all this for you?
Once you take away the freedom, you take away the innovation, and then
the costs just climb and climb as people use the system to their
advantage and those that benefit justify increases in all those budgets
that benefit them.
Wannabe
<ha4h...@KENT.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> wrote
in message news:yolpr5q...@KENT.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--
so-tickle-me...
> Wannabe <wannabeso...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Jan 3, 10:26 am, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Jan 2, 9:18 am, Wannabe <wannabesomeoneca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno...@cox.net> wrote in message news:u1H%m.
>>>
>>> > 3396$XU.2...@newsfe03.iad...
>>>
>>> Sounds like we have a cost problem. Changing who pays for health care
>>> will not change the cost problem.
>>>
>>> Trav
>>
>> Yes, changing who pays for health care will change the cost problem.
>>
>> Let's say you have health insurance coverage. Do you think your
>> insurance company will pay if you go out and get MRI done every other
>> week just for fun? Our government-run health insurance monopoly sets
>> up a guideline for the maximum frequency of routine checkup you can
>> obtain (no limit if your doctor determines you actually require it).
>>
>> Or, do you think your insurance company will pay if your surgeon tries
>> to bill you $1,000,000 just for removing your appendix? In the U.S.,
>> if you (or your insurance company) don't pay up. In Canada, however,
>> health insurance is a government monopoly. The doctors cannot take
>> money directly from the patients, and must make insurance claims to
>> that monopoly. The monopoly, in consultation with the health care
>> industry, can set up a table of reasonable rates for all of the health
>> services. Of course they must balance the rates with the doctors'
>> costs, otherwise the doctors will pack up and go to the U.S. This way,
>> the doctors will make a decent buck out of their expertise, and the
>> patients (actually the tax payers) are paying the bottom dollars.
>
> I'm sure all that works well in fantasy. And that's what politicians use
> to convince dupes to vote for their self-enriching policies. My first
> question would be: do you think they do all this for you?
> Once you take away the freedom, you take away the innovation, and then
> the costs just climb and climb as people use the system to their
> advantage and those that benefit justify increases in all those budgets
> that benefit them.
Do I think they do all this for me? Yes, they do all this for me
(their children and themselves too).
Once you take away the "freedom"? The freedom of what? The freedom of
the doctors or the insurance companies to gouge you?
I remember our Canadian health insurance used to be an option. I paid
about $15 a month for health insurance premium, but somewhere in the
eighties Canadian government simply picked up the tab and it became
free for everybody.
Our Canadian Universal Health Insurance is a one-payer system. The
government can enforce cost control on providers. We did have some
problems in the infancy of this program when many doctors packed up
and went to the U.S. Changes were made and we have this "fantasy"
working for close to 30 years now.
Our drugs used to free for all senior citizens, but we found that many
senior citizens simply threw away the pills after they got them from
the pharmacy. The government changed the law and seniors citizens are
required to pay a trivial amount of $2 for each prescription filled.
This seems to work. $2 is considered affordable to the poor, and it
seemed to have stopped the senior citizens from abusing the free
drugs.
Our ambulance service used to be free, but many people abuse the
system and used the ambulance as taxi service to go to the hospital.
Today we get billed (months later in the mail) about $60 for each trip
if the ambulance was deemed unnecessary.
There were some growing pains but we Canadians have been living in
this fantasyland for a long time now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg
Herbert Cannon
> I wonder if Dim knows those numbers in square brackets in the text are
> footnotes at the bottom of the page supporting those claims. Hey! What
> am I saying? Of course Dim is too stupid to know.
Why dont you two left wing propaganda bullshit artists get a motel room
together. Then you can fuck each other and give the rest of us taxpayers a
rest
trav...@aol.com
>
> Let's say you have health insurance coverage. Do you think your
> insurance company will pay if you go out and get MRI done every other
> week just for fun? Our government-run health insurance monopoly sets
> up a guideline for the maximum frequency of routine checkup you can
> obtain (no limit if your doctor determines you actually require it).
ROTFL.
So, if I change the name on the check, the procedure magically COSTS
LESS?
You're talking about RESTRICTING THE LEVEL OF CARE, not the COST of
care.
My insurance company WILL NOT PAY for the MRIs, neither will the
gov't.
> Or, do you think your insurance company will pay if your surgeon tries
> to bill you $1,000,000 just for removing your appendix? In the U.S.,
The claim would be DENIED, you clueless ass. Insurance companies have
ALREADY negotiated with doctors how much they will reimburse for
claims.
You moron foreigners act as if insurance companies are a blank check.
> money directly from the patients, and must make insurance claims to
> that monopoly. The monopoly, in consultation with the health care
> industry, can set up a table of reasonable rates for all of the health
> services. Of course they must balance the rates with the doctors'
> costs, otherwise the doctors will pack up and go to the U.S. This way,
> the doctors will make a decent buck out of their expertise, and the
> patients (actually the tax payers) are paying the bottom dollars.
Our problem is one of lousy demographics and shouldering the cost
burden for cutting edge medicine for the rest of the world.
All the socialist single-payer nations SHOULD be subsidizing OUR
medical care because we sure as shit subsidize THEIRS.
You wouldn't HAVE MRI machines if it wasn't for US.
Trav
Herbert Cannon
> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>> "suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hhiog6$54f$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>>>> Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients
>>>> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aHoYSI84VdL0
>>>
>>> "Congress last week postponed for two months a 21.5 percent cut in
>>> Medicare reimbursements for doctors. "
>>>
>>> ---How did Repubs vote, Dim?
>>>
>>> in Washington, D.C., said physicians� claims of inadequate reimbursement
>>
>> And I am sure the treating physicians say that Dr. Berenson claim of
>> their claims being overstated is understated. I personally know of a
>> physician that treated two medicare patients last week and was reimbursed
>> $16. Do you think that covered his overhead of a nurse and a
>> receptionist? He was livid. I know of three Drs that refuse to take any
>> govt money. One told me that he had to keep 4 clerks just to fill out the
>> paperwork.
>
> ----That's why they need to streamline the process
> electronically.....that's the saving money part, Dim....
Electronically? Oh my I am sure that is going to save us tons of money you
dimwit. Try looking up the cost of the computer systems and their
maintenance these days. I have heard that shit about govt for ages. Funny
thing is the firms that get the contracts to save govt money get rich "
streamlining" the process, Dump. Go sell that snake oil somwhere else.
>
>> I go to one of them because he is good. I am really enjoying my
>> non-existent govt health insurance there you big ass.
>
> ----Trcare's not administered by the govt, Dim?
The Doc does not accpet any govt money, dumbass. More and more and more of
them are doing that.
>
>>
>> Rather, the program faces a lack of medical providers
>>> because not enough new doctors are becoming family doctors, internists
>>> and pediatricians who oversee patients� primary care.
>>
>> Yes there are fewer family physicians but the solution is not a mandate
>> by government that one cannot become a specialist ( as Clinton wanted to
>> do).
>
> ----Nonsense...
I agree what Clinton wanted to do was nonsense.
>
>> If you do that, you lower the quality of medical care. Which seems to be
>> the sole aim of socialist - to spread the misery everywhere.
>
> ----Everyones else is quite happy with thier free med care, Dim....
Who the fuck is everyone else you moron? I already posted a bunch of links
that proved to you that " everyone" esle is not so happy with their " free"
medical care. BTW who pays for this " free " medical care? Does this " free
medical care" come from the magic " free " tree?
>
>> The solution is more medical schools turning out more family physicians.
>> That is a long term solution and a hard one. Congress is simply going
>> after the quick fix, as always, so they can wave a 1000 page monstrosity
>> around which will further strain the treasury
>
> ----The only thing rightards think doesn't strain the Treasury is war....
Now that is funny coming from Mr. Left Wing Loon with the " free medical
care." The problem with you left wing loons is that you dont even think
there is a treasury. You just print more and more money. Go look at what
happened to Argentina and you will see what happens when you do exactly what
this administration is doing. Sell those bonds to China and hope the bill
never come due you moron.
>
> and break it in another giveaway
>> prograim and which will fuck every thing up in the long run. No wonder
>> the whole mess is scheduled for 2014 and not right away. Ask yourself why
>> they are not under this brilliant plan.
>
> ----Not a brilliant plan without a public option...
Oh you mean more of your magic " free medicine." No thanks. I know all about
free medicine - you will get to learn the hard way.
>
>> The reason the politicians do not call pediatricians specialist ( which
>> they are) is because they do not want a horde of angry mothers on their
>> doorsteps. When I was a lad, the GP served as the pediatrician. If you
>> wanted a pediatrician, you went to the big city.
>
> ----Most people live in or near big cities, Dim....no one much cares about
> your rube upbringing...
No one much cares about your ghetto dwelling either. You missed the point.
When you stop braying I will explain to you.
>
>>> �Some primary care doctors don�t have to see Medicare patients because
>>> there is an unlimited demand for their services,� Berenson said.
>>
>> Horseshit. There is an unlimited demand for every Doctors services. None
>> are sitting around waiting for patients you moron.
>
> ----Actually, some do troll for patients....my wife had a job for a Dr,
> calling previous patients to come in for check ups....
Spare the fact that your wife worked for a quack. Would you like to visit
the waiting rooms of any Docs I see.
>
>
>> When
>>> patients with private insurance can be treated at 50 percent to 100
>>> percent higher fees, �then Medicare does indeed look like a poor payer,�
>>> he said.
>>
>> When? When is that? There is 70 billion of fraud in medicare. Maybe they
>> ought to try and fix that first instead of fucking it all up with more
>> legislated fraud.
> ---Well, they will fix that, Dim....it's funny how the right has all of a
> sudden taken such an interest in Medicare.....They voted against it
> initially, and have always hated it...
>
>>> ----Proof positive that a public option is necessary....
>>> Many Americans are happy with Mexico's
>>
>> HAHAHAHAHA. Yeah I see Americans flocking to Mexico for treatment.
>
> ----Thousands, Dim...
>
> Are you
>> really this fucking dumb?
>
> ----Looks like you're the dummy here, Dim...do you watch the news?
> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec09/mexico_12-28.html
> ----How's that crow taste, Dim?
You really are this fucking dumb arent you. You cannont analyze anything and
just believe any left wing bullshit you are fed from Bill Moyers and the
black lady that is such a fan of Obamas and on the news hour. Mexico has no
valid accreditation procedures for their hospitals with a govt system so
corrupt it is being run by drug lords, it has no lawyers hanging like
vultures on every limb waiting to sue Drs hence zero accountability, if a Dr
fucks you up your are sol, it has no FDA screening drugs, it has no drug
firms doing research. If a Dr fucks you up in Mexico, who exactly do you
turn to? No one. No one is accountable. I recently talked to a pediatric
transplant surgeon here. He goes all over the US. His malpractice insurance
alone is $300,000 per year. My gastroenterologist just won a court case that
went on for ten years. Want cheaper medicine here - try tort reform. Try
letting insurance companies sell across state lines and increase competition
etc. Want lousy medicine - socialize it.
Want real cheap medicine - go to Mexico. No accreditations worth a damn, no
accountablity if someone fucks you up ( that must be a quacks wet dream),
no accountablity even if someone gives you the wrong medicine. Too bad so
sad yankee go home. Roll those fucking dice with your body and health you
fucking moron.
You get what you pay for.
Let me give you a tip. The article says and I quote " it is too good to be
true." When something is - too good to be true - it is simply not true. That
is the first thing you learn in investing. Dont believe me ask all those
people who rode with Madoff.
>
>>
>> .....A guy on the news had a hip
>>> replacement there for 13k all inclusive....hotel room, transport to and
>>> from the hospital, everything....
see above moron.
>>
>> A guy? Really a guy? No shit a guy?
> No shit, Dim, his name's Stan Packard, he's in this piece:
> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec09/mexico_12-28.html
>
> ----How's that shit taste, Dim?
You tell me you are the one eating the bullshit by the shovelful. You want
and education on medicine go to PBS.org and try Health care around the
world. You learn a few things - like when you get old in the UK you are
fucked. Medicine is rationed.
50% of Japans' hospitals are running huge deficits, Singapore's medical
problems involve huge govt deficits and the politicians are afraid of
raising taxes. I have already investigated your so called " free medicine"
you moron. >
> Next time find some other numb nut with
>> better sense to quote other than a former Carter administration official
>> in some left wing think tank.
>
> ------BWAHAHA....rejecting no matter how valid or factual eh, Dim?
> What a hypocrite....
Factual? Valid. You dont even know what the words mean. You left out about
half your factual analyis Mr " free medicine."
> Sorry, Dim, the "left wing thinktank" uses only govt figures.
Really HAHAHAHAHA tell me another lie you fool.
...and is
> considered non partisan by legitimate news sources...that doesn't include
> Fox, BTW...
Yeah Bill Moyers and that black lady that is a real fan of Obamas are real
non partisan. YOu must have fallen off the turnip truck
>
>
>
>
Herbert Cannon
Just as I thought has no understanding of the words irrevalant and
leadership.
Herbert Cannon
Wannabe
<trav...@aol.com> wrote in message news:
40678456-747f-496b...@35g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>> Yes, changing who pays for health care will change the cost problem.
>>
>> Let's say you have health insurance coverage. Do you think your
>> insurance company will pay if you go out and get MRI done every other
>> week just for fun? Our government-run health insurance monopoly sets
>> up a guideline for the maximum frequency of routine checkup you can
>> obtain (no limit if your doctor determines you actually require it).
>
> ROTFL.
>
> So, if I change the name on the check, the procedure magically COSTS
> LESS?
>
> You're talking about RESTRICTING THE LEVEL OF CARE, not the COST of
> care.
>
The real operating COST of MRI service is the same in the U.S. and
Canada. The difference in charges is called "PROFIT".
> My insurance company WILL NOT PAY for the MRIs, neither will the
> gov't.
>
I've had MRI done in a hospital in 2003 when they suspected I have
brain aneurysm. The appointment was made by my family doctor. I didn't
have to pay a penny.
You have a lousy insurance company and a lousy government. Go to your
nearest Canadian embassy to apply for immigration to Canada.
>> Or, do you think your insurance company will pay if your surgeon tries
>> to bill you $1,000,000 just for removing your appendix? In the U.S.,
>
> The claim would be DENIED, you clueless ass. Insurance companies have
> ALREADY negotiated with doctors how much they will reimburse for
> claims.
>
> You moron foreigners act as if insurance companies are a blank check.
>
Our surgeons simply don't care about the cost. The hospital takes care
of all the paperwork in billing the government health insurance after
I have been discharged.
>> money directly from the patients, and must make insurance claims to
>> that monopoly. The monopoly, in consultation with the health care
>> industry, can set up a table of reasonable rates for all of the health
>> services. Of course they must balance the rates with the doctors'
>> costs, otherwise the doctors will pack up and go to the U.S. This way,
>> the doctors will make a decent buck out of their expertise, and the
>> patients (actually the tax payers) are paying the bottom dollars.
>
> Our problem is one of lousy demographics and shouldering the cost
> burden for cutting edge medicine for the rest of the world.
>
> All the socialist single-payer nations SHOULD be subsidizing OUR
> medical care because we sure as shit subsidize THEIRS.
>
> You wouldn't HAVE MRI machines if it wasn't for US.
>
Why do I have a feeling that you talk like a crazy commie?
Maybe you should've been electing more Democrats into office which
will spend your tax dollars on medial care rather than Republicans on
military hardware to make an ass of yourself overseas.
trav...@aol.com
> Canada. The difference in charges is called "PROFIT".
So...nobody who makes or uses MRI machines will make any profit. Got
it.
We should have the next generation of imaging up in no time when there
is NO PROFIT IN IT.
Good god, you are stupid.
> I've had MRI done in a hospital in 2003 when they suspected I have
> brain aneurysm. The appointment was made by my family doctor. I didn't
> have to pay a penny.
You never really recovered from that little injury didya?
> Our surgeons simply don't care about the cost. The hospital takes care
> of all the paperwork in billing the government health insurance after
> I have been discharged.
This all works well and good in an all-white society, I agree. It
could work here too, but 25% of our demographic is 3rd world.
> Why do I have a feeling that you talk like a crazy commie?
>
> Maybe you should've been electing more Democrats into office which
> will spend your tax dollars on medial care rather than Republicans on
> military hardware to make an ass of yourself overseas.
Last I checked, the war is ongoing. Vietnam was not a GOP war
either. There's no shortage of warmongers in either party.
Democraps are pieces of shit for whom I'd never vote.
Trav
Wannabe
<trav...@aol.com> wrote in message news:1977a970-16fa-44ec-8736-
f3c901...@d7g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
>> The real operating COST of MRI service is the same in the U.S. and
>> Canada. The difference in charges is called "PROFIT".
>
> So...nobody who makes or uses MRI machines will make any profit. Got
> it.
>
> We should have the next generation of imaging up in no time when there
> is NO PROFIT IN IT.
>
> Good god, you are stupid.
>
In the U.S. the PROFIT in charging you goes into the pocket of the
people who sells the service of the MRI, not the scientists who
invented the MRI or the companies which constructed the MRI. The
companies selling the MRI machines have no say or interest in how much
PROFIT you are making, much like the car manufacturers don't care
what you do with the car after you have bought it. They have already
made their own PROFIT in selling you the MRI. The next generation of
MRI will still come along and be sold to the same people.
ha4h...@kent.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me
> <ha4h...@KENT.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> wrote
> in message news:yolpr5q...@KENT.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--
> so-tickle-me...
>> Wannabe <wannabeso...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Jan 3, 10:26 am, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 2, 9:18 am, Wannabe <wannabesomeoneca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno...@cox.net> wrote in message news:u1H%m.
>>>>
>>>> > 3396$XU.2...@newsfe03.iad...
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like we have a cost problem. Changing who pays for health care
>>>> will not change the cost problem.
/garbage snipped/
> There were some growing pains but we Canadians have been living in
> this fantasyland for a long time now.
Arrgh! I forgot to get with the program. You're Canadian. I mistook you
for a really stupid American. My mistake. I needn't have bothered, logic
no longer works for you. You've already swallowed the potassium cynaide
and are loving it.
ha4h...@kent.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me
> <ha4h...@KENT.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> wrote
> in message news:yolpr5q...@KENT.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--
> so-tickle-me...
>> Wannabe <wannabeso...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Jan 3, 10:26 am, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 2, 9:18 am, Wannabe <wannabesomeoneca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno...@cox.net> wrote in message news:u1H%m.
>>>>
>>>> > 3396$XU.2...@newsfe03.iad...
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like we have a cost problem. Changing who pays for health care
>>>> will not change the cost problem.
>>>>
> Do I think they do all this for me? Yes, they do all this for me
> (their children and themselves too).
How about: for themselves and their children. Not for you. You pay for
it.
> Once you take away the "freedom"? The freedom of what? The freedom of
> the doctors or the insurance companies to gouge you?
The freedom to think for yourself. Clearly not valued very highly.
> I remember our Canadian health insurance used to be an option. I paid
> about $15 a month for health insurance premium, but somewhere in the
> eighties Canadian government simply picked up the tab and it became
> free for everybody.
"free for everybody". Amazing. You know, for those $15 someone actually
made some calcultions as to how much it would cost to insure people. You
know who makes the calculations now? Yeah, the guys who decide the tax
rates. And then they cut the benefits when "free" doesn't pay the bills
of those giving these "services" while being paid from taxes.
> Our Canadian Universal Health Insurance is a one-payer system. The
> government can enforce cost control on providers. We did have some
hahahahaahaaaa!!!!!
> Our ambulance service used to be free, but many people abuse the
> system and used the ambulance as taxi service to go to the hospital.
> Today we get billed (months later in the mail) about $60 for each trip
> if the ambulance was deemed unnecessary.
Yeah, and you know, there is a reason for everything. When the taxes
(sorry, I mean "bills" so as you can understand the double-speak) start
accumulating, and you "have" to buy this and that (rubbish bags from the
government, you know, small stuff) then maybe one day reason will have
some appeal to you once again.
> There were some growing pains but we Canadians have been living in
> this fantasyland for a long time now.
I always heard from my Canadian friends that there are a lot of dumb
Canucks back in Canada. I thought they were joking... until now.
ha4h...@kent.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me
> <trav...@aol.com> wrote in message news:
> 40678456-747f-496b...@35g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>> Yes, changing who pays for health care will change the cost problem.
>>>
>>> Let's say you have health insurance coverage. Do you think your
>>> insurance company will pay if you go out and get MRI done every other
>>> week just for fun? Our government-run health insurance monopoly sets
>>> up a guideline for the maximum frequency of routine checkup you can
>>> obtain (no limit if your doctor determines you actually require it).
>>
>> ROTFL.
>>
>> So, if I change the name on the check, the procedure magically COSTS
>> LESS?
>>
> I've had MRI done in a hospital in 2003 when they suspected I have
> brain aneurysm. The appointment was made by my family doctor. I didn't
> have to pay a penny.
That's because after all they couldn't find the brain. Doesn't look
dignified for the doctor to charge for a surgery on an organ that
doesn't exist.
Wannabe
<ha4h...@KENT.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> wrote
in message news:yold41p...@KENT.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--
so-tickle-me...
You are the success story of how your politicians can take your taxes
and do nothing for you while you cheer and say they are doing the
right thing. You deserve not to have all the good things that you
don't have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_qopGt67GM&feature=related
trav...@aol.com
> <travis...@aol.com> wrote in message news:1977a970-16fa-44ec-8736-
>
> f3c9011aa...@d7g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> The real operating COST of MRI service is the same in the U.S. and
> >> Canada. The difference in charges is called "PROFIT".
>
> > So...nobody who makes or uses MRI machines will make any profit. Got
> > it.
>
> > We should have the next generation of imaging up in no time when there
> > is NO PROFIT IN IT.
>
> > Good god, you are stupid.
>
> In the U.S. the PROFIT in charging you goes into the pocket of the
> people who sells the service of the MRI, not the scientists who
> invented the MRI or the companies which constructed the MRI. The
Good lord, you are a clueless idiot. Do you have ANY idea how much an
MRI machine costs and how long it takes to turn a profit on one?
> companies selling the MRI machines have no say or interest in how much
> PROFIT you are making, much like the car manufacturers don't care
> what you do with the car after you have bought it. They have already
> made their own PROFIT in selling you the MRI. The next generation of
> MRI will still come along and be sold to the same people.
NO. It will NOT. Because without the USERS of MRIs making a profit,
they will NOT BUY THE FUCKING MACHINES.
Jeezus you are so irretrievably STUPID.
Trav
Wannabe
wrote:
I must have forgotten to mention that our Canadian government's health
insurance monopoly is a NON-PROFIT organization. We don't have a
middleman to gouge us (this must be a difficult concept for you). Our
health care system is run by tax dollars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvskLypt0c4&feature=related
Herbert Cannon
I must have forgotten to mention that our Canadian government's health
insurance monopoly is a NON-PROFIT organization. We don't have a
middleman to gouge us (this must be a difficult concept for you). Our
health care system is run by tax dollars.
NON - PROFIT is a good idea for you. I think the rest of your industry ought
to be nationalized and run the same way, since it works so well for you. All
your manufacturing ought to be run by the Canadian government. Just think,
everything would then be free, your housing, your cars, your gasoline, your
food, your clothes etc. It would all cost nothing just like that MRI that
did not cost you anything. It the absurdity of your argument getting through
to you yet?
Wannabe
"Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> wrote in message news:2XG0n.
1364$Kq7...@newsfe04.iad...
>
>
> NON - PROFIT is a good idea for you. I think the rest of your industry ought
> to be nationalized and run the same way, since it works so well for you. All
> your manufacturing ought to be run by the Canadian government. Just think,
> everything would then be free, your housing, your cars, your gasoline, your
> food, your clothes etc. It would all cost nothing just like that MRI that
> did not cost you anything. It the absurdity of your argument getting through
> to you yet?
>
>
The MRI did not cost me anything because it was paid for by my medical
insurance. Canadian medical insurance is run by the government with
tax money. Each Canadian has a medical insurance card. The healthcare
industry charges each Canadian for services provided through the
number on that insurance card. The rate they can charge is regulated
by the government. Naturally the rate must be fair to the service-
provider and the government insurance monopoly. What that means is
that we are always enjoying the bottom rate. There is no middleman to
gouge us.
Health insurance is too important to be left in the hands of the
private sector. Let me give you a real life example of what will
happen when the government give the private sector a free reign:
Petro Canada used to be a Crown Corporation (owned by our Federal
Government). Our gasoline prices were "regulated" by the government.
That means the government mandated how much the gas stations could
charge for gasoline. Of course the mandated prices must be enough for
the gas stations to make a profit, otherwise nobody will be selling
gasoline.
In the nineties, the government privatized Petro Canada and
deregulated gas prices. That means the gas stations can charge any
amount of money for gas. The assumption is that "competition" will
guarantee the consumers the lowest prices, but it didn't turn out that
way.
Eventually the few big gasoline refineries figured out they can make a
whole lot more money if they cooperate to fix prices to gouge the
consumers instead of competiing to cut-throat each other to benefit
the consumers. The gas prices at the pump were ridiculously high even
long after world oil prices came down. Finally, the government had to
step in and mandate the gas stations to "apply" for gas hike to the
government 4 weeks ahead of time so that gas prices at the pump can be
stabilized.
The auto-insurance industry in our B.C. province is also a one-player
system. They have a much lower insurance rate than Ontario province
where I live. We have the same problem here in our auto-insurance
industry. Those big players in the auto-insurance industry also
figured out they should cooperate in price-fixing to gouge the public
instead of competing against each other to benefit the public. The
government mandated every vehicle must be insured. The big players
figured out if you don't get it from them, you still have to get it
from the other guys, and if the other guys are charging the same high
rate, you have nowhere to go but dole out your money to one of them.
Your healthcare providers in the U.S. are not stupid. They can
cooperate to charge high prices. Your health insurance companies are
not stupid. They can acooperate to charge high premiums. That is why
the World Health Organization (WHO), ranked the U.S. health care
system as the highest in cost, but 37th in overall performance, and
72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in
the study). A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United
States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared
countries.
You can bury your head in your ass and ignore the fact that your
healthcare is high in cost and low in quality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOnQROgk1IM&feature=related
trav...@aol.com
This is why MRI machines were not invented there.
Trav
trav...@aol.com
> "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno...@cox.net> wrote in message news:2XG0n.
>
> 1364$Kq7....@newsfe04.iad...
If you compare comparable demographics, our healthcare is better than
yours. And our crime rate is lower.
Trav
Greendistantstar
> Health insurance is too important to be left in the hands of the
> private sector.
Well, yeah. We have pretty much the same system as Canada, though there is more private cover.
There's other stuff too that to my mind, is too important, too critical, to be left to the
profit-orientated private sector. Utilities are the ones that come readily to mind.
The canard that the private sector is always more efficient than the public sector simply isn't
true, either, and even if it were, I'd still trade off a little inefficiency for continuity of supply.
It's not as though the private sector employs essentially different people than the govt, there's no
magic to be found.
Looking at the performance of the private sector in the US in regards to utilities (Enron, WorldCom)
and the banking sector (too many duds to mention) kinda puts the whole 'the private sector is always
better and more efficient' canard to the sword.
GDS
"Let's roll!"
Wannabe
>
> Trav
MRI was invented as a natural progress in the advancement of science &
technology. Your moneygrabbers use it, together with any other tools,
to gouge you. Tons of other things were invented before MRI which
couldnot be used for profit, and yet they were invented. Your argument
is moot.
trav...@aol.com
Let's see Canada invent something, then.
Let's see somebody throw a ton of money into advanced imaging systems
and say hey fuckit, this is for the good of man.
Trav
trav...@aol.com
>
> There's other stuff too that to my mind, is too important, too critical, to be left to the
> profit-orientated private sector. Utilities are the ones that come readily to mind.
>
> The canard that the private sector is always more efficient than the public sector simply isn't
> true, either, and even if it were, I'd still trade off a little inefficiency for continuity of supply.
>
> It's not as though the private sector employs essentially different people than the govt, there's no
> magic to be found.
>
> Looking at the performance of the private sector in the US in regards to utilities (Enron, WorldCom)
> and the banking sector (too many duds to mention) kinda puts the whole 'the private sector is always
> better and more efficient' canard to the sword.
>
> GDS
>
> "Let's roll!"
There is no such thing as the private sector, so this argument is
moot.
And, yeah, the gov sector has affirmative action...a built-in waste.
Trav
Shuurai
> Yes, changing who pays for health care will change the cost problem.
No, it absolutely will not.
> Let's say you have health insurance coverage. Do you think your
> insurance company will pay if you go out and get MRI done every other
> week just for fun?
Nope. They would refuse payment unless the doctor convinced them that
each instance was medically necessary.
> Our government-run health insurance monopoly sets
> up a guideline for the maximum frequency of routine checkup you can
> obtain (no limit if your doctor determines you actually require it).
Which is exactly what the insurance company would do - so where is the
savings?
> Or, do you think your insurance company will pay if your surgeon tries
> to bill you $1,000,000 just for removing your appendix?
Nope. Insurance companies negotiate what services they reimburse and
the amount of reimbursement in advance. The claim would be denied,
and the doctor would probably be dropped from their plan.
> In the U.S.,
> it is possible for the doctors to gouge your and decline to treat you
> if you (or your insurance company) don't pay up.
It's actually quite difficult for a doctor to gouge you because the
charges for service are prearranged; and any doctor who gouged
patients would very quickly find himself dropped from whatever plans
he works under.
> In Canada, however,
> health insurance is a government monopoly. The doctors cannot take
> money directly from the patients, and must make insurance claims to
> that monopoly. The monopoly, in consultation with the health care
> industry, can set up a table of reasonable rates for all of the health
> services.
Insurance companies do exactly the same thing. They negotiate what
rates they are willing to pay. One difference is that most providers
tend to demand rates that are significantly higher than cost in order
to compensate for being short-changed by Medicare. Another difference
is that since our system is NOT a monopoly, customers are free to shop
around and find plans that are better suited to their needs.
> Of course they must balance the rates with the doctors'
> costs, otherwise the doctors will pack up and go to the U.S.
Again, same thing here - except for the part where doctors need to
increase what they take from insurance companies to compensate for
being paid below cost by the government.
> This way, the doctors will make a decent buck out of their expertise, and the
> patients (actually the tax payers) are paying the bottom dollars.
You have failed to provide any evidence of this lowering costs.
Shuurai
> insurance monopoly is a NON-PROFIT organization. We don't have a
> middleman to gouge us (this must be a difficult concept for you). Our
> health care system is run by tax dollars.
Insurance operate on an average 2% profit margin. Not exactly
"gouging" anybody.
Further, if you look at money spent vs. care provided, private
insurers offer FAR better service than our government can. Medicare
reimburses doctors at below cost, and yet costs taxpayers MORE than
private insurers for the same service. And, because they reimburse at
below cost, they force doctors to negotiate higher rates with private
insurers just to makes ends meet.
If you're happy with Canadian heath care, good for you. Does seem
kind of telling thought that so many of your fellow Canadians are
currently pushing to get private insurance.
trav...@aol.com
Our cost problem basically revolves around care-rationing that we
don't do but that nations like Canada DO do.
The payor is irrelevant.
Trav
Wannabe
wrote:
> On Jan 5, 10:41 am, Wannabe <wannabesomeoneca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > MRI was invented as a natural progress in the advancement of science &
> > technology. Your moneygrabbers use it, together with any other tools,
> > to gouge you. Tons of other things were invented before MRI which
> > couldnot be used for profit, and yet they were invented. Your argument
> > is moot.
>
>
>
> Let's see somebody throw a ton of money into advanced imaging systems
> and say hey fuckit, this is for the good of man.
>
> Trav
Canada had invented a lot of things, so had the USSR, Britain,
France ......., and many countries do throw in a ton of money to
advance our science of technoloty just for the good of man.
I don't know how many times I have to explain to you, that the people
who sell the MRI have already made their profit in selling the MRI.
The high prices you are paying to use the MRI go directly into the
moneygrubbers, not the scientist and engineers who invented and built
the MRI.
Our healthcare providers and your healthcare providers are buying the
MRIs from the same manufacturers at the same price. Our healthcare
providers charge a reasonable rate to our Universal Health Insurance
System to recover the cost and make a decent profit at the same time,
while you healthcare providers charge an arm and a leg to gouge you.
That is why your insurance is not paying for it.
I may have to elaborate on why our MRI operators can make sure they
can recover their cost. It is a similar concept being used by
McDonald's and Tim Horton's franchises. When you buy the franchise,
you are guaranteed a minimum number of customers or you money back.
Our MRIs are housed in hospitals, and the hospital will schedule the
use of MRIs to accommodate patients from inside the hospital and
patients referred from outside the hospital so that our MRIs will
never be sitting idle. They are guaranteed to have a steady stream of
customers, much like the McDonald's and Tim Horton's franchise
operators. The money invested in buying the MRI are guaranteed to be
recovered in a predictable time frame.
In the U.S. the MRI operators, as you say, put in a lot of money in
buying the MRI. They run their business according to the law of cost,
supply and demand. Since it is such a big sum of money in capital
investment, many small players won't be able to afford it so the
supply is low. Plus they factor in the interest rate of their
investment and the possibility that the MRI may be outdated before
they can recoup their investment, they must be charging an arm and a
leg to make it a viable business.
You see that our MRI operators are in a no-loss but low-profit
business while yours are in a high-risk but high-return business. Now
do you understand why you are paying through your nose for your
healthcare?
Wannabe
If your insurance operates on an average 2% profit margin, why would
they care so much about nationalizing your health insurance? They
might as well put their money in the bank and earn more while sitting
on their hands at no risk, right? Where do you think those big bonuses
of the CEOs come from? How do they get those magnificent towering
head office buildings?
Some of the vital services are better kept in the hands of the
government. The idea that the private sector is always more efficient
than the public sector is a fallacy.
We have a few provinces in Canada which have government-run non-profit
auto-insurance monopoly but the insurance premiums are paid by the
user, unlike our health insurance which are covered by tax dollars. I
live in Toronto, Ontario, but I came from Vancouver, British Columbia,
so I will use B.C. and Ontario as an example. B.C. has government-run
non-profit auto-insurance monopoly and for the same car and same level
of insurance coverage, people in B.C. pay substantially less than
people in Ontario. How do you explain that? It's the same shit. The
insurance companies in Ontario are gouging. The big insurance
companies here play the same tune you said. Some even say they are
losing money. They must think we are idiots, because nobody will be
selling insurance policies if they keep losing money. Those fuckers
are lying through their teeth, and gullible people like you are
swallowing it line, hook, and sinker.
The so-called "many of my fellow Canadians who are current pushing to
get private insurance" is a lie. Those are people hired by your
lobbyists to echo their lies so that they can keep fleecing you in
your health care. The "many" is actually only a few, but they get the
media coverage (thanks to your lobbyists). It is like a video camera
focusing on only a few people out of a crowd of a million so you think
those few are the entirety of the crowd.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlmgt6cK5VM&NR=1
trav...@aol.com
> France ......., and many countries do throw in a ton of money to
> advance our science of technoloty just for the good of man.
>
> I don't know how many times I have to explain to you, that the people
> who sell the MRI have already made their profit in selling the MRI.
SELLING IT TO WHOM?
WHO DO THEY SELL IT TO AND HOW DOES THAT ENTITY RECOUP THE COST?
Moron.
> I may have to elaborate on why our MRI operators can make sure they
> can recover their cost. It is a similar concept being used by
> McDonald's and Tim Horton's franchises. When you buy the franchise,
> you are guaranteed a minimum number of customers or you money back.
Wow...so nobody has to pay? FREE MONEY WOO HOO
> Our MRIs are housed in hospitals, and the hospital will schedule the
> use of MRIs to accommodate patients from inside the hospital and
> patients referred from outside the hospital so that our MRIs will
> never be sitting idle. They are guaranteed to have a steady stream of
> customers, much like the McDonald's and Tim Horton's franchise
> operators. The money invested in buying the MRI are guaranteed to be
> recovered in a predictable time frame.
How long it take to get one of those?
Compared to the US? FOREVER.
If we didn't have them, YOU WOULDN'T. Your nation is a fucking
PARASITE.
We invented these things and we brought them into an economy of
scale. Only THEN, when they were effectively mass produced, did
Canada jump on board. Same as you do with our fucking drugs. You
don't pay for the cost of development and refinement.
You just get in 10 or 15 years later after we sank the cost. Like
buying PCs now and claiming we never had to waste all that money on
supercomputers 20 years ago. Right now, moron, we are inventing and
charging money at a profit for the machines that will show up in
Canada 10 years from now.
You only get them when the price falls due to relative ubiquity. And
you don't have blacks blasting holes in each other, messicans falling
over the border with heat stroke and old people who eat themselves to
clinical obesity. Oh, and you ration as well. THAT is why your
health care costs less and your health indicators are higher.
Again, if you compare COMPARABLE demographics our health system,
indicators, and everything is better than yours is.
> You see that our MRI operators are in a no-loss but low-profit
> business while yours are in a high-risk but high-return business. Now
> do you understand why you are paying through your nose for your
> healthcare?
I understand that you are late-adopters with zero risk and zero
expectation of anything getting better because your big brother down
south will take care of the future for you.
We will need to start making Canada pay into our system to shoulder
the R&D costs of all the stuff they use. OR, we can just continue
with a profit model.
Trav
Wannabe
wrote:
>
>
>
> I understand that you are late-adopters with zero risk and zero
> expectation of anything getting better because your big brother down
> south will take care of the future for you.
>
> We will need to start making Canada pay into our system to shoulder
> the R&D costs of all the stuff they use. OR, we can just continue
> with a profit model.
>
> Trav
We have paid into your system. We own part of the multi-nationals
which own you.
You actually haven't invented anything yourself because all those
inventions were funded by multi-national corporations. They operate
out of the U.S.A. because they own you. If you know any better, you
should know that U.S.A. is not even a country. It is itself a
corporation. Your President is more like a CEO of a corporation than
the head of a real country.
You think you have a choice when you vote, but you are merely voting
for the lesser of two evils given to you by the multi-nationals
controlling your political parties.
You don't even have a Central Bank. The Federal Reserve is a
multinational banking cartel (controlled by your beloved Jewish
bankers). The Federal Reserve itself is a corporation.
You have been lied to all your life. You are plugged into the Matrix
and you are living in a dream world.
Watch this video. U.S.A. is a corporation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVsMUpPgdT0
trav...@aol.com
> which own you.
Pay your fair share, bitch.
> You actually haven't invented anything yourself because all those
> inventions were funded by multi-national corporations. They operate
> out of the U.S.A. because they own you. If you know any better, you
> should know that U.S.A. is not even a country. It is itself a
> corporation. Your President is more like a CEO of a corporation than
> the head of a real country.
ROTFL...so what is Canada, then...you idiot.
> You think you have a choice when you vote, but you are merely voting
> for the lesser of two evils given to you by the multi-nationals
> controlling your political parties.
And you're NOT?
> You don't even have a Central Bank. The Federal Reserve is a
> multinational banking cartel (controlled by your beloved Jewish
> bankers). The Federal Reserve itself is a corporation.
Multinational...in Canada too. Your CB is buying mortgages. LOL.
> You have been lied to all your life. You are plugged into the Matrix
> and you are living in a dream world.
It is irrelevant whether I have been lied to or not so long as I
recognize the truth.
Besides, real life in the Matrix sucked. The dream world was better.
Who the fuck wants to scurry around like a rat eating slop every day
taking orders from black people?
Trav
Wannabe
wrote:
>
>
> > You have been lied to all your life. You are plugged into the Matrix
> > and you are living in a dream world.
>
> It is irrelevant whether I have been lied to or not so long as I
> recognize the truth.
>
> Besides, real life in the Matrix sucked. The dream world was better.
> Who the fuck wants to scurry around like a rat eating slop every day
> taking orders from black people?
>
> Trav
I never thought of that before. You are a racist through and through.
LOL!
Shuurai
> If your insurance operates on an average 2% profit margin, why would
> they care so much about nationalizing your health insurance?
Because making a 2% profit beats not making one at all?
> They might as well put their money in the bank and earn more while sitting
> on their hands at no risk, right?
Well, golly... by that reasoning, why have ANY industry? Everyone
could just put their money in the bank and earn while sitting on their
hands!
> Where do you think those big bonuses of the CEOs come from?
Even with those big bonuses, their customers get more (and better)
service per dollar than is seen in the government sector. Medicare
costs MORE per service while paying out LESS. Maybe your government
does it better - maybe you just think they do - but that's Canada.
Here in the US, our government has a pretty shitty track record for
running anything.
> How do they get those magnificent towering head office buildings?
Most of the time they rent them; and in the cases where they own them,
a lot of the time they're renting out space to other companies. And
in any event, they still provide more per dollar than the government.
Wannabe
"Shuurai" <shuu...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1c229fe2-
ce7c-4f68-a84...@f5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
>> If your insurance operates on an average 2% profit margin, why would
>> they care so much about nationalizing your health insurance?
>
> Because making a 2% profit beats not making one at all?
>
They are insane if they really operate on 2% profit margin. You are
insane if you believe they want to stay in business on 2% profit
margin.
>> They might as well put their money in the bank and earn more while sitting
>> on their hands at no risk, right?
>
> Well, golly... by that reasoning, why have ANY industry? Everyone
> could just put their money in the bank and earn while sitting on their
> hands!
>
Because nobody will run a business on only 2% profit margin. There is
always a downside in running a business. I'd rather invest the money
in some government bonds if there is only 2% profit margin.
>> Where do you think those big bonuses of the CEOs come from?
>
> Even with those big bonuses, their customers get more (and better)
> service per dollar than is seen in the government sector. Medicare
> costs MORE per service while paying out LESS. Maybe your government
> does it better - maybe you just think they do - but that's Canada.
> Here in the US, our government has a pretty shitty track record for
> running anything.
>
No, our Canadian government cannot do better than your government
because we hire similar imbeciles from the populace.
Our health insurance system can actually control the cost because it
is a monopoly. Everything it says goes. It mandates how much it will
pay for what kind of health service. The service providers have only
the options of either take it or leave it. If you cannot provide the
service at the rate that the monopoly is willing to pay, then you do
something else or pack up and go to the U.S.
You see that the success secret is "MONOPOLY". Our scheme will fall
apart if we allow 2-tier systems where service providers have the
option of choosing the payers, then it will end up like the U.S.where
doctors will choose treat the highest payers.
>> How do they get those magnificent towering head office buildings?
>
> Most of the time they rent them; and in the cases where they own them,
> a lot of the time they're renting out space to other companies. And
> in any event, they still provide more per dollar than the government.
>
They don't provide more per dollar than the government. In Canada, it
is proven that government-run health-insurance and government-run auto-
insurance function best as monopoly and provide the lowest cost to the
users because they are "NON-PROFIT" Crown Corporations, and as a
MONOPOLY they have the ultimate bargaining power to get the most out
of the service providers at the lowest possible rate.
Private insurance companies are happy to write insurance policies but
always reluctant to pay any claims, while government-run insurance
monopoly has cornered the market and fixed the rate they will pay the
service providers. Our doctors will treat anybody because they know
exactly how much they can claim from the monopoly. We just go to see a
doctor when we are sick, without ever thinking about paying.
Avid Fan
Avid Fan
These Americans are all nuts! America is the *ONLY* developed country
without universal health cover. Get over the scare campaign and grow a
brain!
In Australia we have universal health care. Four years ago my wife had
a baby, Caesarean section, Epidural, private room hot and cold running
nurses. How much did we pay? $0
My neighbour paid big bucks got private health insurance went to a
private hospital. When complications occured they got sent to public
hospital where they had the expertise to deal with it - everything went
fine.
While people, in the US, are being bankrupted because their partner gets
sick. This sucks!
http://www.callsforcthulhu.com/
Why are people talking about this here?
Herbert Cannon
> These Americans are all nuts! America is the *ONLY* developed country
> without universal health cover. Get over the scare campaign and grow a
> brain!
Yeah but your health care aint working out so well in the rest of the world.
> In Australia we have universal health care.
Australia is not the US. How would you like our 20 million illegal
immigrants? How would like to be 80 in the UK?
Four years ago my wife had
> a baby, Caesarean section, Epidural, private room hot and cold running
> nurses. How much did we pay? $0
Really? It was free? Somebody paid.
>
> My neighbour paid big bucks got private health insurance went to a private
> hospital. When complications occured they got sent to public hospital
> where they had the expertise to deal with it - everything went fine.
Antidotal. I can give you a lot of antidotal evidence from Docs here who
have been overseas.
>
> While people, in the US, are being bankrupted because their partner gets
> sick. This sucks!
There is an easy answer for that and it is not govt run health care.
>
> http://www.callsforcthulhu.com/
>
> Why are people talking about this here?
Because it needs to be talked about.
Herbert Cannon
"Avid Fan" <avid...@notvalidexample.net> wrote in message
news:%%Z0n.67216$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Oh you mean we should all run to Cuba for our health care? Moore is a
propagandist of the worst order. His film about a happy Iraq under Saddam
was even panned by liberals.
You are a moron.
Greendistantstar
>> These Americans are all nuts! America is the *ONLY* developed country
>> without universal health cover. Get over the scare campaign and grow a
>> brain!
>
> Yeah but your health care aint working out so well in the rest of the world.
Sure, but it works well here. It's a mistake to try and transplant something from here to there.
>> In Australia we have universal health care.
>
> Australia is not the US. How would you like our 20 million illegal
> immigrants? How would like to be 80 in the UK?
And there's a few good reasons why....
> Four years ago my wife had
>> a baby, Caesarean section, Epidural, private room hot and cold running
>> nurses. How much did we pay? $0
>
> Really? It was free? Somebody paid.
Of course; it's paid through taxation. If you're self-employed like me, you pay a % of your taxable
income at the end of the tax year. This coverage really only helps you for emergency or non-elective
surgery and a few other things, like childbirth. If you want a hip replacement, you might have to
wait a long time.
>> My neighbour paid big bucks got private health insurance went to a private
>> hospital. When complications occured they got sent to public hospital
>> where they had the expertise to deal with it - everything went fine.
>
> Antidotal. I can give you a lot of antidotal evidence from Docs here who
> have been overseas.
>> While people, in the US, are being bankrupted because their partner gets
>> sick. This sucks!
>
> There is an easy answer for that and it is not govt run health care.
A govt run health care *option* would have been a start; alas, this option was rejected.
700,000 Americans are bankrupted every year due to medical costs, and that does, truly, suck.
The answer? Buggered if I know.....
GDS
"Let's roll!"
Herbert Cannon
".
>
> 700,000 Americans are bankrupted every year due to medical costs, and that
> does, truly, suck.
>
> The answer? Buggered if I know.....
The answer is govt run catrosphic health insurance. It should be used in the
case of rare diseases which are tremendously expensive to treat and health
care that is so expensive no one can insure it. That is the place for govt
to step in. Otherwise no. It will simply fuck things up here.
People misunderstand even basic insurance. It is not to cover plantar
warts - it is to cover catastrophic happenings not common colds. They think
they ought not have to pay anything anytime which is bullshit.
Unfortunately, we have a large segment of our population that thinks govt is
the new plantation massa and should provide them with everything clothing,
food, medical care and housing. It wont work.
Herbert Cannon
news people. That is bullshit too. There will always be risk
trav...@aol.com
> without universal health cover. Get over the scare campaign and grow a
> brain!
>
> In Australia we have universal health care. Four years ago my wife had
> a baby, Caesarean section, Epidural, private room hot and cold running
> nurses. How much did we pay? $0
Fuckin eh, that's awesome. FREE EVERYTHING in Australia!!!!!
GFD you are an idiot. $0. LOL. So doctors work for free there eh?
> My neighbour paid big bucks got private health insurance went to a
> private hospital. When complications occured they got sent to public
> hospital where they had the expertise to deal with it - everything went
> fine.
>
> While people, in the US, are being bankrupted because their partner gets
> sick. This sucks!
They let those people die in rationed care nations.
Nobody here dies for lack of a C-section
Trav
Avid Fan
>> These Americans are all nuts! America is the *ONLY* developed country
>> without universal health cover. Get over the scare campaign and grow a
>> brain!
>
> Yeah but your health care aint working out so well in the rest of the world.
It works in Canada, It works in France.
>
>> In Australia we have universal health care.
>
> Australia is not the US. How would you like our 20 million illegal
> immigrants?
France has a similar problem with illegals
> How would like to be 80 in the UK?
A hell of a lot more than being 80 in the US. Private insurance is
available in the UK if you want it.
>
> Four years ago my wife had
>> a baby, Caesarean section, Epidural, private room hot and cold running
>> nurses. How much did we pay? $0
>
> Really? It was free? Somebody paid.
Indeed my taxes paid for it. At a lower rate than you would have had to
pay. People get the care they need not the care they can afford.
>> My neighbour paid big bucks got private health insurance went to a private
>> hospital. When complications occured they got sent to public hospital
>> where they had the expertise to deal with it - everything went fine.
>
> Antidotal. I can give you a lot of antidotal evidence from Docs here who
> have been overseas.
But Anecdotal is OK in that video you put up.
Not all GP clincs are open on a Sunday but plenty are. You go to a
hospital on a with not even a bruise expect to wait a very long time.
>> While people, in the US, are being bankrupted because their partner gets
>> sick. This sucks!
>
> There is an easy answer for that and it is not govt run health care.
What is the easy answer? I bet they had health insurance.
>> http://www.callsforcthulhu.com/
>>
>> Why are people talking about this here?
>
> Because it needs to be talked about.
>
You should have begun your thread - "If I did my triple somersault back
kick and broke my attacker's nose this would happen under Obama's health
care plan"
trav...@aol.com
Try giving your aboriginals liquor and guns and electing one of them
President and see how your HC costs go.
> Of course; it's paid through taxation. If you're self-employed like me, you pay a % of your taxable
> income at the end of the tax year. This coverage really only helps you for emergency or non-elective
> surgery and a few other things, like childbirth. If you want a hip replacement, you might have to
> wait a long time.
People here don't wait. We have a higher level of SERVICE. Why can't
ppl fucking get that? Why do they look at just the $ amount and then
crossref that against a nation filled w/ 25% third world demographic
with 3rd world health and wellness measures who engage in 3rd world
behaviors and then say OMG USA SUX?
We provide a high level of service even to people who shoot each other
and have incredibly high obesity and type 2 diabetes (caused by
obesity) rates.
> A govt run health care *option* would have been a start; alas, this option was rejected.
>
> 700,000 Americans are bankrupted every year due to medical costs, and that does, truly, suck.
>
> The answer? Buggered if I know.....
>
> GDS
WTF is wrong w/ goin BK? Seriously.
I mean, I know you banker types and all the jews want to convince us
that there is some moral obligation in repaying debts, but
seriously...it's a business transaction. There is no corporation or
director thereof who would not exit the contract in fundamental breach
at any point in which it would maximize the economic value to the
entity. ANY loan, bond, contract, or whatever else, that can be
called will be called by a corporation without respect to how
inconvenient it is. Basically, fuck you, pay me.
Trav
Avid Fan
If you hate Michael Moore so much you should go to
http://www.moorewatch.com/
Oh that is right the site is only up because Michael Moore saved the
site's owner from bankruptcy due to health care costs.
Your US health care is SO good that even with health insurance if your
wife gets cancer you go bankrupt.
What a set up! Somebody turns up at hospital for a very minor injury no
wonder they waited so long. No GP clinics open in Canada on a Sunday
really? A quick Google search showed that to be bullshit.
The same thing would happen in Australia if you turned up to an
emergency room of a hospital on a Sunday with a skateboard injury
complaining of no pain, I turned up at an emergency room of a crowded
hospital complaining of chest pain (turned out to be indigestion) was
with a doctor within 2 minutes.
Sam the Bam
> > Yes, changing who pays for health care will change
> > the cost problem.
>
> No, it absolutely will not.
Sure it would, just like any business.
Currently, consumers are isolated from real
costs, due to Commiecare, Medicleech, etc.
Most of all, due to the special tax credit for
employee medical benefits. So they say
"I don't care, the insurance company will pay"
Let the consumer pay for everything honestly,
and you will see real cost savings. The laws
of econ apply to medicine, just like everything else.
> > The monopoly, in consultation with the health care
> > industry, can set up a table of reasonable rates
Gold, pure gold!
> You have failed to provide any evidence of this lowering costs.
Of course, GUMMIT MONOPOLY is the secret
recipe for efficiency!
In fact... the latest revelations - they now admit
that Commie Care won't reduce costs. It was
a lie all along,an excuse for the biggest power
grab in american history.
Sam
Greendistantstar
>> Sure, but it works well here. It's a mistake to try and transplant something from here to there.
>
> Try giving your aboriginals liquor and guns
Uh, we've done that....not much of a plan.
and electing one of them
> President and see how your HC costs go.
Uh huh.
>> Of course; it's paid through taxation. If you're self-employed like me, you pay a % of your taxable
>> income at the end of the tax year. This coverage really only helps you for emergency or non-elective
>> surgery and a few other things, like childbirth. If you want a hip replacement, you might have to
>> wait a long time.
>
> People here don't wait. We have a higher level of SERVICE. Why can't
> ppl fucking get that? Why do they look at just the $ amount and then
> crossref that against a nation filled w/ 25% third world demographic
> with 3rd world health and wellness measures who engage in 3rd world
> behaviors and then say OMG USA SUX?
I'm not saying the US sucks, but laissez faire capitalism isn't the answer, either.
> We provide a high level of service even to people who shoot each other
> and have incredibly high obesity and type 2 diabetes (caused by
> obesity) rates.
>
>> A govt run health care *option* would have been a start; alas, this option was rejected.
>>
>> 700,000 Americans are bankrupted every year due to medical costs, and that does, truly, suck.
>>
>> The answer? Buggered if I know.....
>>
>> GDS
>
> WTF is wrong w/ goin BK? Seriously.
What's wrong with bankruptcy? The consequences here are vastly different to those in the USA.
Here, your trustee in bankruptcy will siphon off portions of your income until you repay your
creditors. You're even limited as to the cost of a car that you may choose to buy. Basically it
fucks you up for a very long time, and is absolutely a last resort.
> I mean, I know you banker types and all the jews
> want to convince us
> that there is some moral obligation in repaying debts, but
> seriously...it's a business transaction. There is no corporation or
> director thereof who would not exit the contract in fundamental breach
> at any point in which it would maximize the economic value to the
> entity. ANY loan, bond, contract, or whatever else, that can be
> called will be called by a corporation without respect to how
> inconvenient it is. Basically, fuck you, pay me.
You guys have embraced non-recourse lending, and now you see the results.
Sure, you can choose default as a strategy, but are you prepared to live with the consequences?
GDS
"Let's roll!"
trav...@aol.com
Isn't here either.
> I'm not saying the US sucks, but laissez faire capitalism isn't the answer, either.
Why are you creating a false dilemma? We don't even have capitalism
here much less laissez faire!
> What's wrong with bankruptcy? The consequences here are vastly different to those in the USA.
>
> Here, your trustee in bankruptcy will siphon off portions of your income until you repay your
This is horrid. Bankers lend money they do not even fucking have,
profit off of interest, then bonus themselves. Interest lending in
this manner is inherently predatory and is contrary to the best
interests of society.
> creditors. You're even limited as to the cost of a car that you may choose to buy. Basically it
> fucks you up for a very long time, and is absolutely a last resort.
Meanwhile, corporations and fatcats do BKs all the fucking time and
pay retention bonuses to their management. Don't get me started on
lending and bankruptcy. The system is set up to get the elites paid
and put everyone else into debt servitude.
> You guys have embraced non-recourse lending, and now you see the results.
WTF? The problem is that the elites and the bankers ran a fucking
credit ponzi! They purchased the government...where is the negative
consequence to them for their bankrupting of entire societies? Where
is the recourse against all the companies that were bailed out??
> Sure, you can choose default as a strategy, but are you prepared to live with the consequences?
>
> GDS
What consequences? AIG went BK and the management got record bonuses.
Trav
YumYumPandaburger
You are making sense, you must be new here.
trav...@aol.com
No, the costs of treatment are not affected by who pays.
> Currently, consumers are isolated from real
> costs, due to Commiecare, Medicleech, etc.
> Most of all, due to the special tax credit for
> employee medical benefits. So they say
> "I don't care, the insurance company will pay"
Um, you mentioned private insurance and Medicare in the same sentence.
> Let the consumer pay for everything honestly,
> and you will see real cost savings. The laws
> of econ apply to medicine, just like everything else.
No you will see less expenditure.
> In fact... the latest revelations - they now admit
> that Commie Care won't reduce costs. It was
> a lie all along,an excuse for the biggest power
> grab in american history.
Realistically, it was intended as a stealth tax increase with benefits
coming to the table after Bama is out of office in 2012.
Trav
Sam the Bam
> > Currently, consumers are isolated from real
> > costs, due to Commiecare, Medicleech, etc.
> > Most of all, due to the special tax credit for
> > employee medical benefits. So they say
> > "I don't care, the insurance company will pay"
>
> Um, you mentioned private insurance and Medicare
> in the same sentence.
They have a similar distorting effect on consumer
behavior; "somebody else will pay for the treatment"
When consumers are spending their own money,
you get the most efficient allocaton of resources.
Basic economics.
> > Let the consumer pay for everything honestly,
> > and you will see real cost savings. The laws
> > of econ apply to medicine, just like everything else.
>
> No you will see less expenditure.
But more bang for the buck.
And, in the long term, as system efficiency
improves, we become more affluent, which
enables higher expenditures.
Sam
ha4h...@kent.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me
>> Uh, we've done that....not much of a plan.
>
> Isn't here either.
>
>> I'm not saying the US sucks, but laissez faire capitalism isn't the answer, either.
>
> Why are you creating a false dilemma? We don't even have capitalism
> here much less laissez faire!
Cue Hegel... can I has dialectic please? Sorry, we just ran out. OK,
I'll take a fake one in the meantime...
>> What's wrong with bankruptcy? The consequences here are vastly different to those in the USA.
>>
>> Here, your trustee in bankruptcy will siphon off portions of your income until you repay your
>
> This is horrid. Bankers lend money they do not even fucking have,
> profit off of interest, then bonus themselves. Interest lending in
> this manner is inherently predatory and is contrary to the best
> interests of society.
Appenzeller Press has this hilarious financial fiction free book about
transparent money. "A printing press in every home" Everyone is going to
be fucking *rich* !!! LOL
>> You guys have embraced non-recourse lending, and now you see the results.
>
> WTF? The problem is that the elites and the bankers ran a fucking
> credit ponzi! They purchased the government...where is the negative
> consequence to them for their bankrupting of entire societies? Where
> is the recourse against all the companies that were bailed out??
Answer we all know: There are no negative consequences for those who own
the system. Apart from the fact that they fail to see that they and
everyone else could have been better off overall had they left everyone
"in pursuit of happiness" without attempting to control, regulate, abuse
and steal the whole fucking lot a few pieces at a time.
suds mcduff
>> I wonder if Dim knows those numbers in square brackets in the text are
>> footnotes at the bottom of the page supporting those claims. Hey! What
>> am I saying? Of course Dim is too stupid to know.
>
> Why dont you two left wing propaganda bullshit artists
----Say's the Dimmie that provides doctored rightwing youtube clips as
references...
suds mcduff
> You dont understand. According to Spuds it is " free " medical care.
>
>
----Really, Dim? Where did I say that, again?
suds mcduff
> "suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hhqio2$rgf$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>>> "suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hhiog6$54f$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>>>>> Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients
>>>>> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aHoYSI84VdL0
>>>> "Congress last week postponed for two months a 21.5 percent cut in
>>>> Medicare reimbursements for doctors. "
>>>>
>>>> ---How did Repubs vote, Dim?
>>>>
>>>> Robert Berenson, a fellow at the Urban Institute�s Health Policy Center
>>>> in Washington, D.C., said physicians� claims of inadequate reimbursement
>>>> are overstated.
>>> And I am sure the treating physicians say that Dr. Berenson claim of
>>> their claims being overstated is understated. I personally know of a
>>> physician that treated two medicare patients last week and was reimbursed
>>> $16. Do you think that covered his overhead of a nurse and a
>>> receptionist? He was livid. I know of three Drs that refuse to take any
>>> govt money. One told me that he had to keep 4 clerks just to fill out the
>>> paperwork.
>> ----That's why they need to streamline the process
>> electronically.....that's the saving money part, Dim....
>
> Electronically? Oh my I am sure that is going to save us tons of money you
> dimwit.
----It alraedy has in other industries, dimwit....
Try looking up the cost of the computer systems and their
> maintenance these days. I have heard that shit about govt for ages. Funny
> thing is the firms that get the contracts to save govt money get rich "
> streamlining" the process, Dump. Go sell that snake oil somwhere else.
----Dim doesn't believe anything he doesn't see on youtube....
>>> I go to one of them because he is good. I am really enjoying my
>>> non-existent govt health insurance there you big ass.
>> ----Trcare's not administered by the govt, Dim?
>
> The Doc does not accpet any govt money, dumbass. More and more and more of
> them are doing that.
----So, Tricare's not administered by the govt, Dim?
>>> Rather, the program faces a lack of medical providers
>>>> because not enough new doctors are becoming family doctors, internists
>>>> and pediatricians who oversee patients� primary care.
>>> Yes there are fewer family physicians but the solution is not a mandate
>>> by government that one cannot become a specialist ( as Clinton wanted to
>>> do).
>> ----Nonsense...
>
> I agree what Clinton wanted to do was nonsense.
>>> If you do that, you lower the quality of medical care. Which seems to be
>>> the sole aim of socialist - to spread the misery everywhere.
>> ----Everyones else is quite happy with thier free med care, Dim....
>
> Who the fuck is everyone else you moron? I already posted a bunch of links
> that proved to you that " everyone" esle is not so happy with their " free"
> medical care.
----And, I return posted the majority that prefers their system to the
Us's...
BTW who pays for this " free " medical care? Does this " free
> medical care" come from the magic " free " tree?
----Just a figure of speech, Dim....for the poor and working poor, it
would be free....
>>> The solution is more medical schools turning out more family physicians.
>>> That is a long term solution and a hard one. Congress is simply going
>>> after the quick fix, as always, so they can wave a 1000 page monstrosity
>>> around which will further strain the treasury
>> ----The only thing rightards think doesn't strain the Treasury is war....
>
> Now that is funny coming from Mr. Left Wing Loon with the " free medical
> care."
----Just a figure of speech, Dim.....yes, rich folks like you may pay a
little more, but, you've been holding out a loooong time....
The problem with you left wing loons is that you dont even think
> there is a treasury. You just print more and more money. Go look at what
> happened to Argentina and you will see what happens when you do exactly what
> this administration is doing.
-----<yawn> let us know when that happens, you paranoid loon...
Sell those bonds to China and hope the bill
> never come due you moron.
>> and break it in another giveaway
>>> prograim and which will fuck every thing up in the long run. No wonder
>>> the whole mess is scheduled for 2014 and not right away. Ask yourself why
>>> they are not under this brilliant plan.
>> ----Not a brilliant plan without a public option...
>
> Oh you mean more of your magic " free medicine." No thanks. I know all about
> free medicine - you will get to learn the hard way.
----Sure, Dim....look at all the countries that are satisfied with thier
"free"
health care...
>>> The reason the politicians do not call pediatricians specialist ( which
>>> they are) is because they do not want a horde of angry mothers on their
>>> doorsteps. When I was a lad, the GP served as the pediatrician. If you
>>> wanted a pediatrician, you went to the big city.
>> ----Most people live in or near big cities, Dim....no one much cares about
>> your rube upbringing...
>
> No one much cares about your ghetto dwelling either. You missed the point.
> When you stop braying I will explain to you.
-----Most people don't live in the country circa 1950, Dim....
>>>> �Some primary care doctors don�t have to see Medicare patients because
>>>> there is an unlimited demand for their services,� Berenson said.
>>> Horseshit. There is an unlimited demand for every Doctors services. None
>>> are sitting around waiting for patients you moron.
>> ----Actually, some do troll for patients....my wife had a job for a Dr,
>> calling previous patients to come in for check ups....
>
> Spare the fact that your wife worked for a quack. Would you like to visit
> the waiting rooms of any Docs I see.
----Yes, Dim, some do indeed troll for patients....I get a card from my
PCP every year....
>>
>>> When
>>>> patients with private insurance can be treated at 50 percent to 100
>>>> percent higher fees, �then Medicare does indeed look like a poor payer,�
>>>> he said.
>>> When? When is that? There is 70 billion of fraud in medicare. Maybe they
>>> ought to try and fix that first instead of fucking it all up with more
>>> legislated fraud.
>> ---Well, they will fix that, Dim....it's funny how the right has all of a
>> sudden taken such an interest in Medicare.....They voted against it
>> initially, and have always hated it...
>>
>>>> ----Proof positive that a public option is necessary....
>>>> Many Americans are happy with Mexico's
>>> HAHAHAHAHA. Yeah I see Americans flocking to Mexico for treatment.
>> ----Thousands, Dim...
>>
>> Are you
>>> really this fucking dumb?
>> ----Looks like you're the dummy here, Dim...do you watch the news?
>> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec09/mexico_12-28.html
>> ----How's that crow taste, Dim?
>
> You really are this fucking dumb arent you. You cannont analyze anything and
> just believe any left wing bullshit you are fed from Bill Moyers and the
> black lady that is such a fan of Obamas and on the news hour.
-----Sure, Dim....they made it all up.....keep watching Fox News, Dim....
Mexico has no
> valid accreditation procedures for their hospitals with a govt system so
> corrupt it is being run by drug lords, it has no lawyers hanging like
> vultures on every limb waiting to sue Drs hence zero accountability, if a Dr
> fucks you up your are sol, it has no FDA screening drugs, it has no drug
> firms doing research. If a Dr fucks you up in Mexico, who exactly do you
> turn to? No one. No one is accountable. I recently talked to a pediatric
> transplant surgeon here. He goes all over the US. His malpractice insurance
> alone is $300,000 per year. My gastroenterologist just won a court case that
> went on for ten years. Want cheaper medicine here - try tort reform. Try
> letting insurance companies sell across state lines and increase competition
> etc. Want lousy medicine - socialize it.
> Want real cheap medicine - go to Mexico. No accreditations worth a damn, no
> accountablity if someone fucks you up ( that must be a quacks wet dream),
> no accountablity even if someone gives you the wrong medicine. Too bad so
> sad yankee go home. Roll those fucking dice with your body and health you
> fucking moron.
> You get what you pay for.
> Let me give you a tip. The article says and I quote " it is too good to be
> true." When something is - too good to be true - it is simply not true.
----Suuuuure, Dim....all those seniors in the clip were paid
actors....you brainwashed dope, you....
That
> is the first thing you learn in investing. Dont believe me ask all those
> people who rode with Madoff.
>>> .....A guy on the news had a hip
>>>> replacement there for 13k all inclusive....hotel room, transport to and
>>>> from the hospital, everything....
>
> see above moron.
>>> A guy? Really a guy? No shit a guy?
>> No shit, Dim, his name's Stan Packard, he's in this piece:
>> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec09/mexico_12-28.html
>>
>> ----How's that shit taste, Dim?
>
> You tell me you are the one eating the bullshit by the shovelful.
-----Sorry, Dim....a universally respected news org has proven you
wrong....keep eating the fox news pap, Dim....
You want
> and education on medicine go to PBS.org and try Health care around the
> world. You learn a few things - like when you get old in the UK you are
> fucked. Medicine is rationed.
----We were talking about the guy that got a hip replacement for 13k,
remember, Dim?
> 50% of Japans' hospitals are running huge deficits, Singapore's medical
> problems involve huge govt deficits and the politicians are afraid of
> raising taxes. I have already investigated your so called " free medicine"
> you moron. >
>
>> Next time find some other numb nut with
>>> better sense to quote other than a former Carter administration official
>>> in some left wing think tank.
>> ------BWAHAHA....rejecting no matter how valid or factual eh, Dim?
>> What a hypocrite....
>
> Factual? Valid.
----Yes, Dim, the piece is factual *and* valid....
You dont even know what the words mean. You left out about
> half your factual analyis Mr " free medicine."
----Yes, Dim, I would believe PBS's news reports more than right wing
propaganda sites like Fox news...
>
>> Sorry, Dim, the "left wing thinktank" uses only govt figures.
>
> Really HAHAHAHAHA tell me another lie you fool.
----Look at their resources, Dim...they'll be there....
>
> ...and is
>> considered non partisan by legitimate news sources...that doesn't include
>> Fox, BTW...
>
> Yeah Bill Moyers and that black lady that is a real fan of Obamas are real
> non partisan.
-----Suuuuure , Dim....all those seniors were paid actors, the script
written by Obama....what a loon....
YOu must have fallen off the turnip truck
-----Nah, you're riding that big turnip truck called "Fox News"...
Wannabe
>>> electronically.....that's the saving money part, Dim....
>>
>> Electronically? Oh my I am sure that is going to save us tons of money you
>> dimwit.
>
> ----It alraedy has in other industries, dimwit....
>
I don't know why Dimwit Herb is still living in Stone Age.
My dentist files my dental claims to my company's insurance company on
the web, and the insurance company emails me the detail of the
settlement of the claim, and the payout from my company's insurance
company is deposited into my dentist's bank account electronically.
Our Canadian Universal Health Insurance is totally computerized. All
the paperwork and money transfers are all done electronically.
My doctor and dentist never asked me for any money or ask me to sign
any paper. Talk about progress!
Dimwit Herb really should get out of his cave and see the world
changing around him. I suspect he is still walking on knuckles.
Herbert Cannon
"Wannabe" <wannabeso...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e944f363-b8bd-4b9e...@f6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>>>> ----That's why they need to streamline the process
>>>> electronically.....that's the saving money part, Dim....
>>>
>>> Electronically? Oh my I am sure that is going to save us tons of money
>>> you
>>> dimwit.
>>
>> ----It alraedy has in other industries, dimwit....
>>
>
Wannabe
"Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> wrote in message news:1wK1n.
15460$Sh7....@newsfe25.iad...
Only our health insurance is govt. Health insurance does not cover
dental.
Our hospitals, doctors and dentists are private. My dental plan is
private and covered by my company's insurance.
Govt or private, they are all computerized. Get with the program,
Dimwit Herb. Evolution is passing you by. You are still walking on
knuckles.
Herbert Cannon
effcient than govt and ought to keep our health insurance. You are still a
one celled amoeba.
Herbert Cannon
You have some more juvenile and amateur propganda to spew?
>
Herbert Cannon
> ----Say's the Dimmie that provides doctored rightwing youtube clips as
> references...
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc_-L4fyLUo>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc_-L4fyLUo>
suds mcduff
----Nah, your juvenile, amateur youtube propaganda can't be beat, Dim....
suds mcduff
----Politifact, factcheck, or snopes please, Dim.....not selectively
edited right wing propaganda on youtube....
suds mcduff
suds mcduff
>>>> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>>>>> Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients
>>>>> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aHoYSI84VdL0
>>>> "Congress last week postponed for two months a 21.5 percent cut in
>>>> Medicare reimbursements for doctors. "
>>>>
>>>> ---How did Repubs vote, Dim?
>> ----Just as I thought....Repub hypocrite to the core....
>
> Just as I thought has no understanding of the words irrevalant and
> leadership.
----Just as I thought....Repub hypocrite to the core....
Herbert Cannon
> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>> You dont understand. According to Spuds it is " free " medical care.
> ----Really, Dim? Where did I say that, again?
Part of your soak the rich program, Dump.
Herbert Cannon
Why Suds you mean all those nasty corporation you have been condemning you
are now going to copy. If they are so effiecient, then we should let them
keep health care rather than try to make govt efficient.
Herbert Cannon
Right you bought Mary Landrieu's vote for 300,000 million and Nebraska's at
the expense of the whole nation. Not there is real honesty at work.
suds mcduff
> "suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hia4q0$pf5$9...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>>> "Wannabe" <wannabeso...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:e944f363-b8bd-4b9e...@f6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> ----That's why they need to streamline the process
>>>>>>> electronically.....that's the saving money part, Dim....
>>>>>> Electronically? Oh my I am sure that is going to save us tons of money
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> dimwit.
>>>>> ----It alraedy has in other industries, dimwit....
>>>>>
>>> Other industries are not the govt Duds.
>> ----Doesn't matter, Dim....it will work in govt as well.....
>
> Why Suds you mean all those nasty corporation you have been condemning you
> are now going to copy.
----<yawn> not *all* corporations, Dim...
If they are so effiecient, then we should let them
> keep health care rather than try to make govt efficient.
Health care corporations efficeint at talking money then denying care...
suds mcduff
> "suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hia4rf$pf5$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>>> "suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hhqip3$rgf$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>>>>> "suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hhiog6$54f$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>>>>>>> Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients
>>>>>>> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aHoYSI84VdL0
>>>>>> "Congress last week postponed for two months a 21.5 percent cut in
>>>>>> Medicare reimbursements for doctors. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---How did Repubs vote, Dim?
>>>>> Who cares? The Dems have control of the congress and the white house.
>>>> ----Just as I thought....Repub hypocrite to the core....
>>> Just as I thought has no understanding of the words irrevalant and
>>> leadership.
>> ----Just as I thought....Repub hypocrite to the core....
>
> Right you bought Mary Landrieu's
----Isn't she yours? You should be proud....
vote for 300,000 million and Nebraska's at
> the expense of the whole nation.
Suuuure Dim....same whine from conservatives on civil rights, social
security,
medicare, pollution, ect, ect...