Martial Arts are useless!!
ai...@my-deja.com
of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to strike
him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard caught
his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I was
in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown around
like a doll. All you should do yourselves a favor and just lift weights
instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats speed!Ainch
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Willy Troosters
ai...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I want you all to know that studying martial arts for self-defense is a > waste of time!
No exercise done to improve overall health is in fact a waste of time!
Learning to defend yourself is no waste of time either.
> I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
> about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
> asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
> bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started.
> Teacher apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just > kept going. Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and
> started to strike him in the stomach.
At this point I wonder if your instructor knows about grappling, arm
locks, wrist locks, throws, or even more simple defences (uchi-uke,
soto-uke, gedan-barai, ...).
One of the things I would like to know is, whether you guys learn any of
these things, because they are very important in close combat!
> When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard caught
> his leg and gave him a bodyslam.
Err ... actually in the martial art I practice (Tai-Jitsu) , we do not
attack, we only defend. With this I mean that we counterattack after we
block or lock the attacking leg, arm, wrist, etc.
> After that some guys broke it up, but I was in horror to see someone
> with a black belt in martial arts get thrown around like a doll.
Imagine this, someone has an 8th degree in jiu-jitsu, karate, judo, TKD
and even Jeet-Kune Do. He walks around and is just about to walk into an
alley, in that alley stands a man with a baseball bat, waiting for his
victim. As the expert in MA goes around the corner, he is wacked with
the bat.
Where are your martial arts degrees good for know?
Myers4321
>about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
>asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
>bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
>apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
>Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to strike
>his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I was
>in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown around
>instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats speed!Ainch
----Now why would you generalize what happened to a TKD blackbelt to all
martial arts? Seems to me the more reasonable conclusion would be..."I think I
need to find a martial art system that can handle that kind of strength and
power and that will actually work!"
Keith
ArcMaster
Instead of putting the blame on the art itself, it was the instructor's
fault to make a stupid high kick in a close confrontation. Especially when
the opponent is expecting an attack. Additional comments below.
ai...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8g9uaq$vmd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I want you all to know that studying martial arts for self-defense is a
waste
>of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
>about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
>asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
>bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
>apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
>Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to
strike
>him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard
caught
>his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I
was
>in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown
around
Why the hell didn't you blindside the bastard? Hell, I would, unless I
really hate that instructor.
>like a doll. All you should do yourselves a favor and just lift weights
>instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats speed!Ainch
>
This is a muscle-headed comment (pun intended). When facing a powerful and
bigger opponent you would probably have to rely on evasion and sidesteps,
somethign TKD doesn't emphasize very often. Instead, TKD relies on powerful
blocks. As people like Gi have often pointed out, 99% of fights go to the
ground, so crosstrain with another art, preferably grappling.
ArcMaster
>>ect: Martial Arts are useless!!
>>From: ai...@my-deja.com
>>Date: 5/21/00 7:17 PM EST
>>Message-id: <8g9uaq$vmd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>>
>>I want you all to know that studying martial arts for self-defense is a
waste
>>of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
>>about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
>>asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
>>bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
>>apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
>>Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to
strike
>>him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard
caught
>>his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I
was
>>in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown
around
>>instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats
speed!Ainch
>
>
>But' i've grappled lots of the guys at my gym, so I don't think I have to
worry
>about them hasslin' me.
>They know better.
>
>Gi
So you've actually been in real fights before. Care to share us some
stories?
Sai
<ai...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8g9uaq$vmd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I want you all to know that studying martial arts for self-defense is a
waste
> of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
> about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
> asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
> bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
> apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
> Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to
strike
> him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard
caught
> his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I
was
> in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown
around
> like a doll. All you should do yourselves a favor and just lift weights
> instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats
speed!Ainch
Of course! You're talking about TKD!
I am not suprized at all, seeing as it is TKD, but don't tar all arts with
the same brush. Some work!
I caught a spin kick from a quite high ranking TKD instructor when I was an
Aikido Brown Belt using a Tenkan (circular retiring movement). He did it to
try and prove something, but I don't remember what. All it proved to me is
that I don't want to train TKD.
Sai
Sai
ArcMaster <arcma...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:yPdW4.50509$wz3.2...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
> Gichoke wrote in message <20000521205416...@ng-fv1.aol.com>...
> >>ect: Martial Arts are useless!!
> >>From: ai...@my-deja.com
> >>Date: 5/21/00 7:17 PM EST
> >>Message-id: <8g9uaq$vmd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
> >>
> >>I want you all to know that studying martial arts for self-defense is a
> waste
> >>of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
> >>about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
> >>asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
> >>bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
> >>apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept
going.
> >>Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to
> strike
> >>him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard
> caught
> >>his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I
> was
> >>in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown
> around
> >>like a doll. All you should do yourselves a favor and just lift weights
> >>instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats
> speed!Ainch
> >
> >Amen,brother.
> >
> >But' i've grappled lots of the guys at my gym, so I don't think I have to
> worry
> >about them hasslin' me.
> >They know better.
> >
> >Gi
>
> So you've actually been in real fights before. Care to share us some
> stories?
>
>
Don't encourage him!
Jakob Sverre Lřvstad
Maybe it's MyEmail1234 back in a new disguise?
In any case... TKD is about as far from real defense as you can get and the
fact that he had a piece of black cloth around his waist has nothing to do
with his ability to fight. There are many good fighters that have never done
Martial Arts. Some just have the right attitude, aggressiveness and
creativity in them to fight well and smart (and dirty!). Give me an english
football hooligan over a TKD instructor any day.
You instructor should have just grabbed the other guys balls and
squeezed for dear life. That usually puts an end to it - but then again,
that's not part of the TKD way or whatever. And lifting weights for strength
and running for endurance is pretty standard for most serious Martial Arts
students, so recommending it is pretty useless - unless you have some good
training tips for us.
Well, I rest my case - I know lots of TKD self defense wannabes will flame
me to hell and back, but so be it. The only good self defense people I've
seen among TKD'ers are those who have trained extensively in other arts...
Cheers
Jakob
ai...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8g9uaq$vmd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I want you all to know that studying martial arts for self-defense is a
waste
>of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
>about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
>asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
>bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
>apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
>Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to
strike
>him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard
caught
>his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I
was
>in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown
around
>like a doll. All you should do yourselves a favor and just lift weights
>instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats speed!Ainch
>
>
Dar
On or about Mon, 22 May 2000 00:17:35 GMT,
IMO, the least powerful part of any MA is the ability to defend yourself
physically. The thing that people don't realize is that people like Bruce
Lee had over 3,000 books of philosophy that he read, allegedly. Just to get
involved in MA for the self defense aspects would be a mistake as far as
I'm concerned.
But I will bet on a fighter with a technique behind him over brute force
any day. That doesn't mean that technique always will beat brute force, but
it is more likely to.
ai...@my-deja.com says...
Gichoke
>Date: 5/22/00 12:00 PM EST
>Message-id: <yPdW4.50509$wz3.2...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>
>
>Gichoke wrote in message <20000521205416...@ng-fv1.aol.com>...
>>>ect: Martial Arts are useless!!
>>>From: ai...@my-deja.com
>>>Date: 5/21/00 7:17 PM EST
>>>Message-id: <8g9uaq$vmd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>>>
>waste
>>>of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
>>>about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
>>>asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
>>>bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
>>>apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
>>>Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to
>strike
>>>him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard
>caught
>>>his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I
>was
>>>in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown
>around
>>>like a doll. All you should do yourselves a favor and just lift weights
>>>instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats
>speed!Ainch
>>
>>
>>But' i've grappled lots of the guys at my gym, so I don't think I have to
>worry
>>about them hasslin' me.
>>They know better.
>>
>>Gi
>
>So you've actually been in real fights before. Care to share us some
>stories?
I fight at my school four times a week.
Gi
DAVE
Last I heard NHB was still a ring sport! If you will read closer you will
notice I said "real world" self defense. Now I have nothing against BJJ but
I think pure jujitsu that also teaches standing self defense tactics as well
as ground fighting is a better self defense art. For example in the post
that I replied to the fight took place in a gym. Most of the gyms that I
have been in are full of equipment and it would be very hard to take someone
to the floor because of lack of space. Even if there was floor space it
would still be a bad idea to get down and roll around on the floor when
there is a very likely possibility your opponent might have a friend
standing around just waiting to drop a 50 lb dumbell on your head. Yes I am
well aware of what has taken place in the NHB events but dude if you think
those are real self defense situations you are very deluded.
Sincerely,
Dave C
Gichoke <gic...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000521233706...@ng-df1.aol.com...
> >m: "DAVE"
>
> >f you would really like to learn
> >some good selfdefense there are a whole bunch of styles that offer a lot
> >more realistic selfdefense than TKD.
>
> > Silat,
>
> No wins in NHB.Remember Alberto Leone?
>
> > Wing Chun,
>
> No wins in NHB.Remember Steve Faulkner?
>
> >Shorin ryu
>
> No wins in NHB.Remember Fred Ettish?
>
> These arts fighters and techniques have been proven 100% inneffective time
and
> time again.
>
> Gi
SPIDERMAN
> that sounded like a made up story
Yup, same style as that "Friend killed in street because of Bjj"
post.
Gichoke
>From: "DAVE" sai...@email.msn.com
>Date: 5/22/00 8:16 PM EST
>Message-id: <eKrW6NFx$GA.186@cpmsnbbsa09>
>
>Hey Gichoke,
>Last I heard NHB was still a ring sport!
Whats your point?
> If you will read closer you will
>notice I said "real world"
>self defense.
Whats your point? That a punch in the face in a ring won't hurt in the street?
Last I heard physics(sic?) pretty much applies everywhere.
>Now I have nothing against BJJ
Isn't that what they always write befor they lapse into an anti BJJ tirade THAT
SQUIRMS DESPERATLY TO PATHETICALLY EXPLAIN WHY WHAT WE SEE IN NHB DOESNT SHOW
WHAT WE CAN CLEARLY ALL SEE THAT IT DOES SHOW.
There guys are saying..."please ignore the man behind the curtain."
>but
>I think pure jujitsu that also teaches standing self defense tactics as well
>as ground fighting is a better self defense art.
No shit?
What style are you referring too? are you arguing that George Kirby would beat
Mario Sperry on the street?
What makes an art effective on the street, besides simply exclaiming"my art is
for the street"?
> For example in the post
>that I replied to the fight took place in a gym. Most of the gyms that I
>have been in are full of equipment and it would be very hard to take someone
>to the floor because of lack of space.
Really? hmm... being a grappler I always found it MUCH EASIER TO TAKE PEOPLE
DOWN IN SMALL CLUTTERED SPACES.
In fact I would argue that anyone that disageed with such an obvious truth,
really has no buisness discussing grappling at all.
>Even if there was floor space it
>would still be a bad idea to get down and roll around on the floor when
>there is a very likely possibility your opponent might have a friend
>standing around just waiting to drop a 50 lb dumbell on your head.
How exactly does one defend against dumbbells to the back of the head while
locked in a standing confrontation?
BTW, BJJ doctrine isn't
"try to get fights to the ground"
as much as it is
"whether you like it or not the vast majority of fights WILL go to the ground
whether you want it to or not."
> Yes I am
>well aware of what has taken place in the NHB events but dude if you think
>those are real self defense situations you are very deluded
I would suggest that you grab a dictionary and look up self-defense.
gi
Jakob Sverre Lřvstad
weapons? Does it teach theory and mental drills that will develop your
understanding of violent situations on the street?
I'm just asking - no flaming needed. The club at which I sometimes do BJJ in
Oslo is extremely sport oriented - and they win every tournament they're in
too(NHB tournies included), but when I asked about self defense aspects,
they just said that if you're a good fighter, you'll be ok in a
streetfight... I'm not sure I agree... Any comments?
Cheers
Jakob
ArcMaster
that most of us was unfortunatly, more or less, exposed to TKD fools who
throw high kicks and get countered, giving us a bad impression. So I dunno
who the hell is out there trying to make TKD look bad. If you keep your
kicks low and rechamber quickly, TKD *is* an effective striking art.
Jakob Sverre Lřvstad wrote in message <8gc4le$rum$1...@readme.uio.no>...
>Yup this is probably just another made up story from some out of lesson.
>Maybe it's MyEmail1234 back in a new disguise?
>
>In any case... TKD is about as far from real defense as you can get and the
>fact that he had a piece of black cloth around his waist has nothing to do
>with his ability to fight. There are many good fighters that have never
done
>Martial Arts. Some just have the right attitude, aggressiveness and
>creativity in them to fight well and smart (and dirty!). Give me an english
>football hooligan over a TKD instructor any day.
> You instructor should have just grabbed the other guys balls and
>squeezed for dear life. That usually puts an end to it - but then again,
>that's not part of the TKD way or whatever. And lifting weights for
strength
>and running for endurance is pretty standard for most serious Martial Arts
>students, so recommending it is pretty useless - unless you have some good
>training tips for us.
>
>Well, I rest my case - I know lots of TKD self defense wannabes will flame
>me to hell and back, but so be it. The only good self defense people I've
>seen among TKD'ers are those who have trained extensively in other arts...
>
>Cheers
>Jakob
>
>ai...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8g9uaq$vmd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>>I want you all to know that studying martial arts for self-defense is a
>waste
>>of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
>>about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
>>asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
>>bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
>>apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
>>Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to
>strike
>>him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard
>caught
>>his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I
>was
>>in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown
>around
>>like a doll. All you should do yourselves a favor and just lift weights
>>instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats
speed!Ainch
>>
>>
ArcMaster
>Does BJJ have any self defense stuff against multiple opponents and/or
>weapons? Does it teach theory and mental drills that will develop your
>understanding of violent situations on the street?
>
Virtually any grappling system is effective on the streets, because of the
little or no distance that usually results.
>I'm just asking - no flaming needed. The club at which I sometimes do BJJ
in
>Oslo is extremely sport oriented - and they win every tournament they're in
>too(NHB tournies included), but when I asked about self defense aspects,
>they just said that if you're a good fighter, you'll be ok in a
>streetfight... I'm not sure I agree... Any comments?
>
I would agree. What he means is, BJJ is not the BEST streetfighting self
defense art there is, as a matter of fact, there ISN'T ANY. But what you
want to know, is the "effectiveness" of the art. If your school can do well
in NHB tourneys, it's probably pretty good on the streets. Provided you
train hard.
>Cheers
>Jakob
>
>
>
>
longi...@my-deja.com
I'll tell you what's worthless...your generalizing, bland, sappy,
ignorant assessment of a pathetic situation. Your "instructor" didn't
get beat up because martial arts failed...but because his training in
them failed HIM. He obviously didn't know what HE was doing. Tough
shit.
If you want to claim that martial arts don't work, maybe you should try
studying some which are fight oriented, then make an educated judgement.
If you still think they are worthless...then you're probably a useless
shit brain, and should hire a bodyguard.
Longimanus
TravIsGod
>>waste
>>>>of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
>>>>about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor,
well, there's the problem: TKD is neither a martial art nor self defense.
Blackbelts in TKD are given out like gumballs.
Trav
Jerry Love
"Jakob Sverre Lřvstad" <jako...@stud.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:8gddd6$gbn$1...@readme.uio.no...
> Does BJJ have any self defense stuff against multiple opponents and/or
> weapons?
The upright portion of BJJ has an excellent basis for both, but I am unaware
that BJJ schools train it. Though a lot of my information on this come from
Gi (who doesn't study at a school) and Spiderman (who taked JKD).
Jerry
Charos
Seeing as how buddy hasn't responded to the thread since he posted it I'm
assuming it's a troll...
--
*+_Charos_+*
Jim Phelps is a freak of nature, right Jim Phelps?
"The fact is I get my data from GOD HIMSELF and am not supposed to even read
the responses!"
-Jaguar in a Usenet post to adp
-------------------------------------------------------
Visit: http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=BEC-997 for a great
site offering easy and free cash just for surfing the web! (it's legit)
Charos
waste
> of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
> asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
> bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
> apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
> Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to
strike
> him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard
caught
> his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I
was
> in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown
around
> like a doll. All you should do yourselves a favor and just lift weights
> instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats
speed!Ainch
Hmmm, There are much more street effective arts than TWD...in fact, TWD is
one of the least street effective art's I can think of (a bit above Tae
Bo)...it's nice to improve your kicking power...but not for real
fights...had I had some muscle-bound freak on my ass there's no way I would
have kicked like that...I'm sure I would throw kicks...but all would be at
the knee/groin level...I would also be looking for an opening to toss a
choke on him to take him out...to put it bluntly, I think your teacher made
some big fuck ups in the fight...ones that many other MA's wouldn't have.
Steve Sylvester
i have a story about a friend of mine who takes
martial arts and dj's at local clubs. one night
some drunk guy at the club pushed him into some
big guys and he spilled their drinks all over them...
my friend is 5'11 about 170lbs, pretty slim build,
these guys were all taller and all three looked like they
were really muscular... anyway one of them took the first swing
and before the bouncer had a chance to break in my friend
had dropped two of the guys and the third was kinda
dissoriented from a kick to the stomach...
point is, there are many things that determine who wins
a fight, not just the knowledge of a martial art.
DAVE
As usual you cannot help but show what a complete dumbass you are. I guess
I musta hurt your little feelings when I left BJJ off my list of
suggestions. Whats even funnier is that 2 seconds after I hit the send key
I knew I would get a stupid smartass response from you because I left it
out. In other words your predictability is getting really sad. Maybe some
day far away in the future I am sure you might learn the difference between
sporting events and what happens on the street. As far as that bullshit
about most fights ending up on the ground what my bouncer and cop friends
tell me is that most real life fights rarely last more than 2 minutes and
almost never end up on the ground.
Davenews:20000523000602...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
SPIDERMAN
>sporting events and what happens on the street.
I take it you have experience with street fighting ?
How many street fights you bin in man ?
Gichoke
>From: "DAVE" sai...@email.msn.com
>Date: 5/23/00 7:37 PM EST
>Message-id: <#8$pyeRx$GA.269@cpmsnbbsa06>
>
>Hi Gi,
>As usual you cannot help but show what a complete dumbass you are.
Why should I help?
Get your mommy.
>I guess
>I musta hurt your little feelings when I left BJJ off my list of
>suggestions.
I have long since forgotten your list, sorry.
>Whats even funnier is that 2 seconds after I hit the send key
>I knew I would get a stupid smartass response from you because I left it
>out.
Do you know what I'm gonna say to that?
I'll give you a hint.
It invovles your mother, the New York Knicks... and certain unspecified
"allegations"....
> In other words your predictability is getting really sad.
I agree.(bet you didn't expect that.)
>Maybe some
>day far away in the future I am sure you might learn the difference between
>sporting events and what happens on the street.
How? Are you gonna kata my brains out in a streetfight?
> As far as that bullshit
>about most fights ending up on the ground what my bouncer and cop friends
>tell me is that most real life fights rarely last more than 2 minutes and
>almost never end up on the ground.
Isn't it weird how everybody here always says "bouncers and cops" whenever they
wanna give unrefutable proof of something?
You know what?
I don't give a shit what your bouncer and cop friend say....
Ya know why?
Cause they might not know shit.
Ya know why?
Cause the cops and bouncers that I've known are mostly shitheads and pussies.
>Dave
I'm not taking your shit, bro.
Get on your knees, Dave(Gichoke ominously unbuckles pants)
Gi
Ren
"TravIsGod" <trav...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000523133934...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> >>>>I want you all to know that studying martial arts for self-defense is
a
> >>waste
> >>>>of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed
mind
> >>>>about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor,
>
Dave
> >s> I have long since > >day > Get on your knees, Dave(Gichoke ominously
unbuckles pants)
>
> Gi
I dont want to see your stinky old ugly pussy!
John Morse¿
>I want you all to know that studying martial arts for self-defense is a waste
>of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
>about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
>asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
>bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
>apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
>Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to strike
>him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard caught
>his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I was
>in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown around
>like a doll. All you should do yourselves a favor and just lift weights
>instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats speed!Ainch
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
Silly Boy! Try an art that teaches grappling, trapping, close quarter
combat techniques, etc... Also, hundreds of push-ups, pull-ups,
crunches, and leg exercises, every other day, can't hurt.
enjoy!
_____________________________________
PC/UNIX Administrator
LSI Logic - Ft. Collins, CO
john....@lsil.com
"Happiness is a belt fed weapon..."
_____________________________________
emo...@my-deja.com
I'll be the first to tell you that TKD has very little application
in real life. Styles of martial arts that train you for tournaments
don't cut it in real life!
If your teacher were a traditional wing chun kung fu Sifu, that
muscle-head would've woke up 5 hours later and spitting out his teeth!
Educate yourself a little bit more about "real" martial arts styles,
before you make generalized statements.
I train in traditional (not modified) wing chun and I have sparred
without protective gear against some friends who are black belts in
TKD and Karate, and I easily defeated them.
There are other styles out there, that could finish off TKD and
Karate black belts, Wing Chun Kung Fu just happens to be one of them!
Tell your teacher to drop the TKD and start something more
practical!
In article <8g9uaq$vmd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Whazu
builder type antagonists. Yes, I realize the original post was
about a fight in a gym, but the rest? Nobody ever seems to fight
anyone smaller than themselves in their stories. Is that just a
fact of life, in that little guys don't start fight with bigger
guys, or pure bs?
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Mata...@webtv.net
win (if you had any grappling knowledge). Why don't you slug it out with
the meat head and get your puny little ass kicked like the TKD guy did.
Mata-Leao
Good night, sleep tight
Mata...@webtv.net
This has to be a fabricated story. hahahahahahahahahahaha
Gichoke
>From: Whazu whazuN...@hotmail.com.invalid
>Date: 5/25/00 11:14 AM EST
>Message-id: <15f019ac...@usw-ex0102-084.remarq.com>
>
>Funny how fight stories always include the muscle-bound body
>builder type antagonists. Yes, I realize the original post was
>about a fight in a gym, but the rest? Nobody ever seems to fight
>anyone smaller than themselves in their stories. Is that just a
>fact of life, in that little guys don't start fight with bigger
>guys, or pure bs?
The latter.
Gi
TEI
Gi,
You haven't a clue.
The Martial Arts is just that. It is an art. There are millions of painters
and artist out there. Not every painter is Van Gogh. It is a gift. Maybe one
in a million have it. If your Tae Kwon Do teacher had been a Van Gogh,
the weightlifter would be fucking dead! (Or crying on the floor due to bone
and median pressure.) ----I know you don't understand, it's
OK. there, there. Got to sleep----
ai...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8g9uaq$vmd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
TEI
Bring that shit my way.
You sound like gi.!
Try Matsumura-Seito Ryu.
D art of fighting widdout fighting....
emo...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8gji53$do9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>Hey friend,
>
>I'll be the first to tell you that TKD has very little application
>in real life. Styles of martial arts that train you for tournaments
>don't cut it in real life!
>
>If your teacher were a traditional wing chun kung fu Sifu, that
>muscle-head would've woke up 5 hours later and spitting out his teeth!
>
>Educate yourself a little bit more about "real" martial arts styles,
>before you make generalized statements.
>
>I train in traditional (not modified) wing chun and I have sparred
>without protective gear against some friends who are black belts in
>TKD and Karate, and I easily defeated them. Cough (Bullshit)
>
TEI
Yea right
is this post a joke?
kXe
> A
> Gi,
> You haven't a clue.
> The Martial Arts is just that. It is an art. There are millions of painters
> and artist out there. Not every painter is Van Gogh. It is a gift. Maybe one
> in a million have it. If your Tae Kwon Do teacher had been a Van Gogh,
> the weightlifter would be fucking dead! (Or crying on the floor due to bone
> and median pressure.) ----I know you don't understand, it's
> OK. there, there. Got to sleep----
The big difference being of course when I go to an art class nobody
promises me that I will make money with my skills.
Yet all those lousy martial arts promise me that i will be able to
defend myself.
kXe
Klaus Winkler
>I witnessed first hand that power always beats speed!
>
Now let's assume for a small moment your story is true, and you are
not a Troll ( I think you are):
You witnessed one event, there power won. The conclusion that Power
always beats speed is <insert favourite insult>.
My advice to you:
Stop training martial arts and weight lifting, Train your Brain.
--
Gruß/Regards
Klaus Winkler
Heimkino FAQ: http://www.digital-movie.de/hfaq/index.html
W Walden
ROFLMAO
aj...@my-deja.com
easily. TKD is a franchise system. If you want to make money you teach
tkd. As a martial art its very weak. The best thing to do is not rely on
one art. Different oppents require different attacks, not just a kick.
Simone & Juergen
just for self defence? A situation where you have to defend yourself against
someone with martial arts is very, very rare if you behave prudently. And I
assume that we all do ;-). To look better in such a situation could hardly
justify going to the TKD training twice per week.
The much more important use of martial arts is to attain optimum physical
fitness (strength, speed, flexibility), the sheer fun of exercising and
improving and last but not least that 'do' or 'dao' thing.
Of course, it is an interesting question which style is most effective in
self defence and this question deserves a discussion. But this is just one
aspect and this one aspect cannot qualify a martial art as useful or
useless. My personal experience is clearly that TKD made my life richer
although I never 'used' it to beat up someone (and I hope I will never have
to).
Juergen
Chris Sanders
>
> "Simone & Juergen" <ras...@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:8gs1ng$4h6$12$1...@news.t-online.com...
> > If I may ask, do you really do martial art (of whatever style or school)
> > just for self defence? A situation where you have to defend yourself
> against
> > someone with martial arts is very, very rare if you behave prudently. And
> I
> > assume that we all do ;-). To look better in such a situation could hardly
> > justify going to the TKD training twice per week.
> >
> > The much more important use of martial arts is to attain optimum physical
> > fitness (strength, speed, flexibility), the sheer fun of exercising and
> > improving and last but not least that 'do' or 'dao' thing.
>
> weave one's one baskets. Rather one takes it because they enjoy the
> activity. None-the-less, one goes out to learn the best way to weave a
> basket, because that is what basket weaving is all about.
>
> Now, many may have gotten into TaeBo to get fit, or KungFu to look pretty,
> and considered any self-defense a bonus. I got into martial arts to study a
> martial art. My motivation may not be combat, but my goal sure is.
>
> Jerry
Well sed
Chris Sanders
Jerry Love
Bennet...@mindspring.com
Whazu wrote in message...
>Funny how fight stories always include the muscle-bound body
>builder type antagonists. Yes, I realize the original post was
>about a fight in a gym, but the rest? Nobody ever seems to fight
>anyone smaller than themselves in their stories. Is that just a
>fact of life, in that little guys don't start fight with bigger
>guys, or pure bs?
I have done some free sparring against a six year-old, but that doesn't
count as fighting. (I will admit that it looked REALLY pathetic.) I didn't
want to hurt her, so just to make sure that I didn't, I made all my swings
about a foot out of range. My instructor did notice the ludicrous
situation. Just remember, CardioTKD is not a good fighting art.
Ciao,
Paul
Jim Henning
>In article <8grfi9$5s8q$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
> "W Walden" <zon...@go.com> wrote:
>>
>> ROFLMAO
>> >Blackbelts in TKD are given out like gumballs.
>> >
>> >Trav
>>
>> I agree tkd is not appropriate as a self defense. Ranks are given to
>easily. TKD is a franchise system. If you want to make money you teach
>tkd. As a martial art its very weak. The best thing to do is not rely on
>one art. Different oppents require different attacks, not just a kick.
I dissagree, any martial art is going to have some effectiveness against an
unskilled assailant. You don't have to be the best to be better than the next
guy or gal.
Chris Newton
> I dissagree, any martial art is going to have some
> effectiveness against an unskilled assailant. You
> don't have to be the best to be better than the next
> guy or gal.
I agree with the second sentence, but not with the first. Everyone
naturally has a built-in fight-or-flight psyche. If an animal is trapped
in a corner, it will generally fight, and by default humans are no
exception to this.
Now, if you take such a human and systematically train them to pull all
of their attacks by point-sparring with light/no contact, then you are
directly reducing their ability to fight. People will fight the way they
train, and if you train to play tag, you will fight that way.
This is not to say that light sparring has no place. You can't spar
full-contact all the time, and personally I wouldn't want to anyway.
Full contact sparring can be an enlightening activity (!), but light
sparring has a very important place in developing skills. But if you do
light sparring, you have to take steps to ensure that you don't just
train in the reflex to pull everything. For example, if you're doing
light striking sparring, don't forget the bag and pad work where you hit
things hard.
Incidentally, I seem to recall an interesting study on the way different
MA training methods mapped onto reflexive behaviour in a pressure
situation. It suggested that it is better to perform a
strike/throw/whatever slowly, but technically correctly and with full
follow-through, than to perform techniques at speed but pulled. That's a
curious observation, IMHO.
Cheers,
Chris
Roger Taylor
<chris...@no.junk.please.btinternet.com> writes
>Incidentally, I seem to recall an interesting study on the way different
>MA training methods mapped onto reflexive behaviour in a pressure
>situation. It suggested that it is better to perform a
>strike/throw/whatever slowly, but technically correctly and with full
>follow-through, than to perform techniques at speed but pulled. That's a
>curious observation, IMHO.
>Cheers,
>Chris
Can't quote any studies, but in my own personal experience, the adage
should always be 'First comes right, then comes fast.' I know it
applies in pistol shooting, piano playing, archery and aikido and I've
no reason to suppose it isn't relevant to most physical activities.
Going too fast too soon locks in errors which are the very devil to get
rid of later on
Cheers
Roger Taylor
weisely
black belt fight with a judo yellow belt people.
At the beginning, the judo guy was kicked by the TKD guy
like ass. Each kick was effective.
But suddenly, the judo guy graped the TKD guy leg while he
execute a kick and smashed the TKD guy on to the floor.The
poor TKD guy even need help from us to get up.
The lesson from here is, kick is always slower, if compare
to punch. It is very easy to grape the person leg while he
execute the kick but very difficult to grape a person arm
while the person execute a continues punch like in boxing.
Almost 90% of the TKD guy will never know what to do with
their hand in sparring.
My master tell me that a smart fighter will use 60% in
punching , 30% in kicking and 10% in graping and locking
techniques.
At last, i want to say that a good TKD instuctor will always
advise their student not to use kicking techniques at the
beginning of the fight.
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Chris Newton
> Can't quote any studies, but in my own personal
> experience, the adage should always be 'First comes
> right, then comes fast.'
Absolutely. I believe the study I was thinking of went further than
this, though. It reasoned that *any* time you train using pulled
techniques (e.g., point sparring), you are performing an incorrect
movement. This applies even if the mechanics are otherwise correct.
Hence, if you point spar, you are potentially damaging your technique if
you don't have correcting influences (bagwork, heavy contact sparring,
etc.). Compare with, say, judo, where even if you're training a throw
slowly for technique, you're still following-through with the same
throwing action you'd use in randori or shiai.
Cheers,
Chris
Sai
Roger Taylor <roger_...@hawklan.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1sJmtAAa...@hawklan.demon.co.uk...
> In article <8hatss$pt4$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>, Chris Newton
> <chris...@no.junk.please.btinternet.com> writes
> >Incidentally, I seem to recall an interesting study on the way different
> >MA training methods mapped onto reflexive behaviour in a pressure
> >situation. It suggested that it is better to perform a
> >strike/throw/whatever slowly, but technically correctly and with full
> >follow-through, than to perform techniques at speed but pulled. That's a
> >curious observation, IMHO.
> >Cheers,
> >Chris
>
> Can't quote any studies, but in my own personal experience, the adage
> should always be 'First comes right, then comes fast.' I know it
> applies in pistol shooting, piano playing, archery and aikido and I've
> no reason to suppose it isn't relevant to most physical activities.
> Going too fast too soon locks in errors which are the very devil to get
> rid of later on
>
> Cheers
>
> Roger Taylor
Here, here!
"Slowly, slowly, catch the monkey!" my Master always said. You can't run
before you can crawl!
Incidently, attacks should not be pulled at any speed. This is not a
problem for the beginner as it should not be fast for the beginner. It is
the reason why our Ukemi (breakfalls) should be jaw-droppingly astounding,
so that we can pile in to take the head off our Tori/Nage and not get
broken.
Listen to Roger, he knows what he is talking about.
Best Wishes,
Sai
Gichoke
>From: weisely changchy...@hotmail.com.invalid
>Date: 6/3/00 11:16 AM EST
>Message-id: <283beef1...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>
>
>Let me tell u one my own experience, my frieds who is a TKD
>black belt fight with a judo yellow belt people.
>At the beginning, the judo guy was kicked by the TKD guy
>like ass. Each kick was effective.
>But suddenly, the judo guy graped the TKD guy leg while he
>execute a kick and smashed the TKD guy on to the floor.The
>poor TKD guy even need help from us to get up.
Judo is a martial art.
>
>My master tell me that a smart fighter will use 60% in
>punching , 30% in kicking and 10% in graping and locking
>techniques.
He's wrong.
Gi
Roger Taylor
<si_w...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>Listen to Roger, he knows what he is talking about.
>Best Wishes,
>Sai
>
Tell that to Tony Blair, Sai. Not to mention the NRA of America.
Cheers
Roger (or should I say Cassandra?)
Chris Newton
> [weisely wrote...]
> >My master tell me that a smart fighter will use 60% in
> >punching , 30% in kicking and 10% in graping and locking
> >techniques.
>
> He's wrong.
Well, that depends on the environment. If he's fighting in a TKD
tournament which allows grappling, but the scoring gives more credit to
striking, that could be right. With no disrespect intended, the
grappling taught in TKD schools is, obviously, limited compared to arts
which specialise in the same.
For competitions with fewer rules, and certainly for a real fight, I
agree with Gi. Grappling should take a much more significant role than
kicking at that point. Of course, most of these situations don't start
at kicking range.
Cheers,
Chris
Sai
Roger Taylor <roger_...@hawklan.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:FfPaBFAC...@hawklan.demon.co.uk...
NO - DON'T OPEN THE BOX!!!!!
It is sad that the actions of a tiny minority spoil it for everyone. This
is concerning me with martial arts just now, as we have had 2 katana attacks
by loonies in the past 6 months. We could be legislated like crazy next!
All the best
Sai
TravIsGod
>> [weisely wrote...]
>> >My master tell me that a smart fighter will use 60% in
>> >punching , 30% in kicking and 10% in graping and locking
>> >techniques.
>>
>> He's wrong.
Yes, it should have been 90% punching.
Trav
Dave
to do some fighting. Get some 16 oz glove, shin pads, cup, mouth piece and find
a place that will let you spar. A place to teach you fast and hard to slow and
soft. Learn to get your bell rung and enjoy it, so when you get tagged on the
street it puts a smile on you face. Second, learn to grapple! This place you
find has to offer hours of rolling around on the ground, where you learn hold,
chocks, locks, and nasty stuff.
If you want to fight good you got to fight a lot. Kata, drills, one point
sparring, lifting, and running all go to shaping your weapons but fall MILES
short of getting you there. A seasoned street fighter who's never seen a dojo
will beat most black belts 80% of the time, because of the lack of serious
fighting in martial arts programs.
Size, strength, speed, martial skills all are factors. Watch the tapes from
Ultimate Fighting and alike. You will see what works and doesn't work. Big strong
guys are tough not matter how trained you are. A Greco-Roman college wrestler
can be as dangerous as any one else. Don't rule out weapons. I could show you a
thin little 5 ft friend who can slice and dice before you blink. As a mater of
fact you won't be blinking because you eyelid will be lying on the floor. If you
like guns, IDPA and IPSA stuff is like miniature golf with gun --another martial
arts.
If you just lift you may end up being just extra meat in someone meat locker.
Your eyes are wide open shut!
ai...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I want you all to know that studying martial arts for self-defense is a waste
> of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
> about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
> asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
> bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
> apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
> Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to strike
> him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard caught
> his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I was
> in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown around
> like a doll. All you should do yourselves a favor and just lift weights
> instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats speed!Ainch
Gichoke
>From: trav...@aol.com (TravIsGod)
>Date: 6/4/00 11:27 AM EST
>Message-id: <20000604122707...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
Punching is hugely important, but surely Trav, you think takedowns and defenses
against such are also crucial, So I assume you were exaggerating.
Gi
John Carlo
10% infighting
Gichoke
>Date: 6/4/00 7:22 PM EST
>Message-id: <13989-39...@storefull-158.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
>
>i would say 30% punching 30& stand up grappling 30% ground fighting and
>10% infighting
I concur, accept that I'd add just a little legkicks, just enough so you'll
get used to the defense, though yesterday boxer/BJJer Belfort smacked around
Thaiboxer Gilbert Yvel pretty good in NHB, just like he did thaiboxer Silva,
Belfort has the right idea, don't stand around against a kicker, swarm him
with punches.
Gi
Brian Paquet
: i would say 30% punching 30& stand up grappling 30% ground fighting and
: 10% infighting
10% boxing, 10% wrestling, and 80% not being a dumbass will keep anyone
safe in life.
[Not that I am labeling anyone here a dumbass. The above post is a worthy
contrubution to the NG]
With just being a partial dumbass [and 1/6 of a metric ton] I've managed
to keep out of trouble from High School till now [Almost 31].
The 10% of the above two are a quick way to take care of 95% of the
dumbass's who don't care that you arn't being a dumbass and attack you
anyways.
[quick as in, you can gain good ability in short order]
[For some reason the word for me tonight is Dumbass.]
If I were more petty I would suggest
10% boxing, 10% rasslin, 20% not being a dumbass, and 60% tai chi and
healthy eating. As above it will keep you safe, and *might* give you a
few more years of life so you can dance on the graves of less healthy
dumbasses.
Gichoke
>Date: 6/4/00 10:01 PM EST
>Message-id: <8hf567$r5g$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>
Who the fuck said anything about "safe"?
We wanna kick some ass,bro.
Would it be too predictable if I called you a dumbass?
Thought so.
Gi
Brian Paquet
: Who the fuck said anything about "safe"?
: We wanna kick some ass,bro.
: Would it be too predictable if I called you a dumbass?
: Thought so.
IIRC the thread started with a [fake] story about a TDK guy being beaten
up in a self defence situatuon....
Also I can't relate to you wanting to kick ass, as I am quite happy with
the size of my penis.
TravIsGod
>defenses
>against such are also crucial, So I assume you were exaggerating.
>
>Gi
He said a "smart fighter," chokey boy. A smart fighter will be better than 99%
of the people on the street and can handle them with his hands. Thus, 90%
hands. The remaining 1% are of course all trained grapplers and NHB fighters.
For these people, he will need his remaining 10%.
Trav
Gichoke
>Date: 6/5/00 11:44 AM EST
>Message-id: <8hgldq$kir$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>
But I hear your woman isn't.
Gi
Brian Paquet
: >Also I can't relate to you wanting to kick ass, as I am quite happy with
: >the size of my penis.
: But I hear your woman isn't.
Please, I am 1/6 of a metric ton, like I can get a woman within 10 feet
of my penis. I still stand by my lack of respect for your desire to kick
ass.
Gichoke
>Date: 6/5/00 6:21 PM EST
>Message-id: <8hhcl7$1vt$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>
I don't wanna kick guys asses that aren't willing and trained, I just wanna
kick my dojomates asses, and maybe a few guys at tournaments.
Is that cool?
Gi
Brian Paquet
: I don't wanna kick guys asses that aren't willing and trained, I just wanna
: kick my dojomates asses, and maybe a few guys at tournaments.
: Is that cool?
You should be more clear on your targets, there are enough people out
there who just like to kick ass for the sake of kicking ass.
Although it is better that you limit yourself to willing targets [much
much better] I don't really understand what you get out of it. I assume
it is more then just the thrill of compitition. Point sparing, chess
there are many ways to get the benifits of competition.
Is it something to do with the extra risk you undergo yourself, the
adrenelen rush of danger? Lets face it, you lose at chess, and all you
bruse is your ego, lose at a game of whuppass and you suffer much more.
I hope this comes across right, I don't read EVERY message in this NG,
and am really curious what motivates you.
laplace
ai...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I want you all to know that studying martial arts for self-defense is a waste
> of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
> about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
> asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
> bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
> apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
> Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to strike
> him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard caught
> his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I was
> in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown around
> like a doll. All you should do yourselves a favor and just lift weights
> instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats speed!Ainch
If you or your instructor JUST understood this ultimate truth it only mean you
and your instructor don't know martial arts at all !
The only reason he got a black belt is for that organization granted him the belt
to stay in business. If his attacking leg can be caught by a big bastard it only
mean your instructor haven't started martial arts yet and his organization
granted him the belt is bunch of liars.
Power is one of the most important part of martial arts, any kind of martial
arts. From what you described it only talking us the organization granted your
instructor his black belt is fraud. First of all, your instructor should not kick
anywhere his opponent capable of grabbing his leg, kick to the body is silly
move, unless your kick can break a tree with 30% of your power, otherwise it's
unlikely to finish the fight with one move.
You shouldn't say martial arts are useless. What if we put the person thrown your
instructor against Rickson Gracies only 80 something kg?
laplace
Gichoke wrote:
> >ect: Martial Arts are useless!!
> >From: ai...@my-deja.com
> >Date: 5/21/00 7:17 PM EST
> >Message-id: <8g9uaq$vmd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
> >
> >I want you all to know that studying martial arts for self-defense is a waste
> >of time! I saw something at the health club last night that changed mind
> >about it forever. I went to a workout with my TKD instructor, whom I had
> >asked to help me with a weight training program. During the workout, he
> >bumped into some musclehead asshole and a confrontation started. Teacher
> >apologized for bumping into the jerk, but the musclehead just kept going.
> >Finally, the guy began physically pushing my instuctor and started to strike
> >him in the stomach. When my teacher tried to kick him, the big bastard caught
> >his leg and gave him a bodyslam. After that some guys broke it up, but I was
> >in horror to see someone with a black belt in martial arts get thrown around
> >like a doll. All you should do yourselves a favor and just lift weights
> >instead, because I witnessed first hand that power always beats speed!Ainch
>
> Amen,brother.
>
> But' i've grappled lots of the guys at my gym, so I don't think I have to worry
> about them hasslin' me.
> They know better.
>
> Gi
What you mean they know better?!
Can you beat someone who is 24kg heavier than you?
TravIsGod
>of my penis. I still stand by my lack of respect for your desire to kick
>ass.
>
This is fat weight?
Trav
Brian Paquet
: >Please, I am 1/6 of a metric ton, like I can get a woman within 10 feet
: >ass.
: >
: This is fat weight?
6'2 366 pounds, I would think so. My original comment wouldn't make much
sence if I were at 5% body fat now would it ;)
John Carlo
Gichoke
>From: laplace lap...@hotkey.net.au
>Date: 6/6/00 6:55 AM EST
>Message-id: <393CE626...@hotkey.net.au>
It they are clueless, no problem.
Gi
Gichoke
>Date: 6/6/00 3:26 AM EST
>Message-id: <8hicj7$kmk$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>
>
>Gichoke (gic...@aol.com) wrote:
>
>: I don't wanna kick guys asses that aren't willing and trained, I just wanna
>: kick my dojomates asses, and maybe a few guys at tournaments.
>: Is that cool?
>
>You should be more clear on your targets, there are enough people out
>there who just like to kick ass for the sake of kicking ass.
>
>Although it is better that you limit yourself to willing targets [much
>much better] I don't really understand what you get out of it
It makes me feel like a man.
>I assume
>it is more then just the thrill of compitition.
Yeah, thrills I can do without.
>Point sparing, chess
>there are many ways to get the benifits of competition.
But those are for pussies.
Except for chess.
>
>Is it something to do with the extra risk you undergo yourself, the
>adrenelen rush of danger?
Nope.I can forget my masculine inadaqecies if only for a little while.
>Lets face it, you lose at chess, and all you
>bruse is your ego, lose at a game of whuppass and you suffer much more.
Nah, just tap.
>
>I hope this comes across right, I don't read EVERY message in this NG,
>and am really curious what motivates you.
As long as you're reading all of mine.
Which is most the messages.
Gi
weisely
>Gichoke <gic...@aol.com> wrote...
[weisely wrote...]
My master tell me that a smart fighter will use 60% in
punching , 30% in kicking and 10% in graping and
locking techniques.
He's wrong.
Yes, it should have been 90% punching. "
Well tray, kicking is also damn important fighting, either
in real street fighting or sparring.
A SMART fighter will always react differently according to
the situation. If the situation is good for execution of
kicking techniques, he will not using punching anymore.
Also, a SMART fighter will always consider WHO his opponent
is, and what is the weak point of his oppoent.
For example, a SMART fighter will never try to execute a
kick to a judo guy, as his leg will easily grap by the
judoka.
In a situasion when he fight with a boxing champion, he may
change the percentage to:
kicking:50% , punching:40% locking:10%
This is because a boxer will rarely have kicking experience.
I can surrender him easily just by using kicking techniques.
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
BarnesKenpo
>I can surrender him easily just by using kicking techniques.
>
Mike Tyson awaits, I'm sure.
Y'know it occurs to me that Jhoon Rhee thought the same way awhile back
... until Muhammad Ali pushed his scrawny carcass around the ring in an
exhibition match. And then there was "the Father of Full Contact Karate", Joe
Lewis, who I respect somewhat, deciding to spar Michael Spinks (?). Lewis used
his side kick to keep Spinks at bay for the first round, but by round two
Spinks had adapted and had Lewis on the run.
Out of curiousity, on what boxer do you plan on demonstrating? Let me know
... I'd like tickets.
Gary R. Barnes
Chris Newton
> Well tray, kicking is also damn important fighting, either
> in real street fighting or sparring.
Well, in sparring, maybe. In real fighting, you probably started too
close to use kicking anyway.
> For example, a SMART fighter will never try to execute a
> kick to a judo guy, as his leg will easily grap by the
> judoka.
Funny, I do that with ju jitsu practitioners all the time, and they know
how to throw, takedown, etc., too. It's not who you use it on so much as
how and when you use it.
> In a situasion when he fight with a boxing champion, he may
> change the percentage to:
> kicking:50% , punching:40% locking:10%
> This is because a boxer will rarely have kicking experience.
> I can surrender him easily just by using kicking techniques.
I've seen a few guys go into punching/kicking matches who thought like
that. A lot of them went down with the first punch.
Cheers,
Chris
GOU RONIN®
> Mike Tyson awaits, I'm sure.
> Y'know it occurs to me that Jhoon Rhee thought the same way awhile back
>... until Muhammad Ali pushed his scrawny carcass around the ring in an
>exhibition match. And then there was "the Father of Full Contact Karate", Joe
>Lewis, who I respect somewhat, deciding to spar Michael Spinks (?). Lewis used
>his side kick to keep Spinks at bay for the first round, but by round two
>Spinks had adapted and had Lewis on the run.
> Out of curiousity, on what boxer do you plan on demonstrating? Let me know
>... I'd like tickets.
Agreed!
GOU RONIN® - The Unforgiven...
ICQ# - 49024165
http://members.tripod.com/~kenpo_ronin/houseofronin.html
weisely
So are u try to say that the boxing is much more better than
art such as karate and TKD?
We are now talking about the effectiveness in the street
fighting.
Are u dare to say that boxing is more effective than karate
in real street fighting situation?
bull shit
Chris Newton
> "A lot of them went down in the first punch"
>
> So are u try to say that the boxing is much more
> better than art such as karate and TKD?
No. I'm not saying any art is better than any other, since such
comparisons are usually pointless.
What I'm saying is that when people who punch and kick face punching
specialists, and assume they will be able to stop them with kicks, they
are often wrong. It's very hard to stop a trained fighter with a single
kick, and that's probably all you have time to throw before you're in
punching range. Once you're in punching range, the boxer probably hits
better than the karateka, other things being equal.
> We are now talking about the effectiveness in the street
> fighting.
Sure.
> Are u dare to say that boxing is more effective than
> karate in real street fighting situation?
It can be. Did you know that most street altercations of the kind you
appear to be talking about start either as blind-side surprise attacks
or at a range of around 1-2 feet after an "interview" where the attacker
verbally disarms the victim? In either case, you're way too close to use
kicking as a primary means of fighting. In the second case, starting a
foot or two apart, boxing is just right. In the first, a surprise
attack, the evasive manoeuvres of boxing are more appropriate than a
karate-style block and counter.
This is the problem with kicking styles and real life, you see. Kicking
is a valuable skill, no doubt about it, but it's less accessible in most
real situations than punching or grappling skills. Relying on kicking at
the expense of punching and grappling is a losing tactic.
Cheers,
Chris
Joe Bartsch
>
> "A lot of them went down in the first punch"
>
> So are u try to say that the boxing is much more better than
> art such as karate and TKD?
> fighting.
> in real street fighting situation?
>
It愀 up to the fighter, not the system. Try to wrestle Mike Tyson and take a
look at the benefits of your system. Of course you must wait till you wake up.
--
---------------------------------------/^\-----------------------------------
Joachim Bartsch (j...@artcorps.de) / \ technical director
ArtCorps GmbH, Mannheim, Germany. Voice: +49 621-48389-10 Fax: 621-48389-90
++ CG Animations, Design, Web-Design, software development, service bureau ++
Gichoke
>Date: 6/9/00 10:04 AM EST
>Message-id: <11f733ec...@usw-ex0109-069.remarq.com>
>
>"A lot of them went down in the first punch"
>
>So are u try to say that the boxing is much more better than
>art such as karate and TKD?
>We are now talking about the effectiveness in the street
>fighting.
>Are u dare to say that boxing is more effective than karate
>in real street fighting situatio
HELL YES!!!!!!
Gi
EPerez4591
you're not concidering......Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is specifically for those
muscleheads, I've witnessed my self a 180lbs 6ft. 1 guy that has whipped a guy
three times his size and walked away with out a scratch!!! you have to see
Jiu-Jitsu in action before you concider not taking it up. These results I've
seen repeatetly over and over again!!! In my eyes....it's a proven "FACT" that
anyone who thinks that they're big and strong and can whip any body....boy are
they sooooo wrong!!!!
EPerez4591
Jiu-Jitsu together...oh my god....poor TKD instructor!!!!
Jerry Love
news:20000616135043...@ng-fn1.aol.com...
I've seen it done with Silat and Akido. And I have seen Sumo win at a 2-1
weight disadvantage. What's your point? Training works?
3-1 for a 180lb guy? You *saw* a fight with a 540lb fighter? Did he go to
the ground? Eeewwww!
Jerry
Whazu
barne...@aol.com (BarnesKenpo) wrote:
>>This is because a boxer will rarely have kicking experience.
>>I can surrender him easily just by using kicking techniques.
>>
>
> Mike Tyson awaits, I'm sure.
> Y'know it occurs to me that Jhoon Rhee thought the same
way awhile back
>.... until Muhammad Ali pushed his scrawny carcass around the
ring in an
>exhibition match. And then there was "the Father of Full
Contact Karate", Joe
>Lewis, who I respect somewhat, deciding to spar Michael Spinks
(?). Lewis used
>his side kick to keep Spinks at bay for the first round, but by
round two
>Spinks had adapted and had Lewis on the run.
> Out of curiousity, on what boxer do you plan on
demonstrating? Let me know
>.... I'd like tickets.
>
>Gary R. Barnes
>
>
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Marcia Lundy
decision.
res04j22
a southern chinese style, in a life/death situation..
"Whazu" <whazuN...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:08e3ff30...@usw-ex0106-046.remarq.com...
Gichoke
>Date: 6/19/00 11:37 PM EST
>Message-id: <DyC35.504$uv2.2...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>
>
>I am interested to hear others opinions on a boxer vs. a martial artist, say
>a southern chinese style, in a life/death situation..
Boxer by quick knockout.Most people that try boxing quit because they are not
good or tough enough, so the average boxer isn't really an average guy, they
are competitors and athletes.Whereas you can become a Kung Fu student by just
deciding to be one, and rarely will it be tough enough to make you quit.Plus
boxing attracts agressive athletic people, Kung Fu attracts a more cerebral
spiritual crowd.
It is just not a fair comparison.
Gi
Frank Benn (aka FB)
That's actually a very good point. Not everybody has the *choice* of being a
boxer. The rigors of boxing training -- and application in sparring and fighting
-- rule out a lot of people.
jcur...@my-deja.com
lose a fight. Just watch a Jackie Chan movie and you know this is
true. And they can fly, too. Really. And they can kill you with a
flick of the wrist, after they go to the FBI to register their hands as
lethal weapons.
Curtin
In article <8g9uaq$vmd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John Carlo
what it takes to be a boxer was explained perfectly by you
Alan Phung
Hold up just a second though. Your taking one of the best boxers in the
world fighting against martial artist. I would like to see Tyson vs Bruce
Lee or Jet Li or Shaolin fighting monk and see what happens. In a life and
death situation the martial artist would come up on top. Boxers are
basically only trained to use their fist and they are limited to what they
can do, while the martial artist has the advantage of using his whole body
as a weapon, not just their fist. Those martial artist metioned have the
abitities to kill a man with the palm of their hand.
BarnesKenpo
>lose a fight. Just watch a Jackie Chan movie and you know this is
>true. And they can fly, too. Really. And they can kill you with a
>flick of the wrist, after they go to the FBI to register their hands as
>lethal weapons.
>Curtin
>
Don't forget the chi that we can project like laser beams from our eyes!
That stuff hits ya and it's SNAP! CRACKLE! POP!, baby!!
Gary R. Barnes
BarnesKenpo
>Hold up just a second though. Your taking one of the best boxers in the
>world fighting against martial artist
In the case of Lewis/Spinks I'm talking of one of the best boxers fighting a
man who is purported to be one of the best MA fighters that ever lived.
The average boxers boxes, every day, sometimes several hours a day,
against living, breathing opponents who don't necessarily like being hit so
they -- and here's the kicker -- hit back. Matial artists, in general, tend to
punch air. Or work one-step self-defense against an opponent who knows exactly
what's coming and how they are supposed to react. Point sparring aside,MOST
striking arts also do not engage in a whole lot of heavy contact free fighting,
and that includes the Shaolin monks (at least according to the documentaries I
have seen). I say that as a striker -- one who does engage, on a fairly regular
basis, in heavy contact sparring.
Tyson vs Bruce Lee? I really don't think that will ever happen so it's
pointless to speculate. Let Li? My money is on Tyson, frankly. And I like Jet
Li ... he-- along with Jackie Chan --has injected more life into the flagging
MA movie genre than perhaps anyone in recent years; however, he is an actor
first, Martial Artist second, at least for now. He's admitted as much on
various talk shows. Shaolin monk? Tyson again. There's something to be said for
the brutality he exhibits -- it's not exactly fair in terms of boxing, but it
would likely carry him through a down and out street brawl. I mean, the man is
an animal with little regard for anyone but himself. Do you really think that a
monk that hasn't been exposed to a beast of Tyson's caliber is really gonna be
able to lay on the dim mak? I'll buy tickets to that one too ... but don't
charge too much ... it's gonna be a short fight.
>Those martial artist metioned have the
>abitities to kill a man with the palm of their hand.
>
You've personally seen this? Or, like the rest of us, have you only heard
the stories? BTW, I'm not doubting that it could be done ... but let's be
real, shall we? We shouldn't blindly agree with everything we're told.
Gary R. Barnes
kec...@webtv.net
kungfoo...@sprint.ca (Alan Phung) Re: Martial Arts are useless!!
like to see Tyson vs Bruce Lee In a life and death situation the martial
artist would come up on top. Boxers are basically only trained to use
their fist and they are limited to what they can do, while the martial
artist has the advantage of using his whole body as a weapon, not just
man with the palm of their hand.
My money is on tyson ! You don't think he would use his whole body
beating the tar out of scronny little Bruce lee?I bet Tyson could kill a
man with one punch!
KECK
Charos
the
> world fighting against martial artist. I would like to see Tyson vs Bruce
It'd be a toss up I think between Bruce and Tyson...dependant on the
situation...Jet Li and the Monk? my money would go on Tyson.
> In a life and
> death situation the martial artist would come up on top. Boxers are
> basically only trained to use their fist and they are limited to what they
> can do, while the martial artist has the advantage of using his whole body
> as a weapon, not just their fist.
Correction...boxers SPECIALIZE in their fists...they aren't limited to
it...have you ever been in a boxing match? I went with a friend to his gym
where they box frequently and got in the ring for a bit, they're faster than
you'd think...they can land 5 punches before your brain can register the
first...needless to say I was knocked out very quickly (now if I'd been
allowed to kick, choke and all it probably would have been different...of
course, these are amateurs...if I were to fight Tyson regardless I'd be
knocked on my ass in the first 30 seconds.) Depends on the fighter and what
exactly they do...I'd be very interested in seeing Tyson attack someone like
Wally Jay or Steven Segal (even if you don't like him, he's legitimately a
7th Dan black belt in Aikido and a hell of a fighter)...I have a feeling
that if Tyson didn't manage to land the first few punches he'd end up being
choked out or with a broken arm...(I can bet they wouldn't try and box with
a boxer)
> Those martial artist metioned have the
> abitities to kill a man with the palm of their hand.
or the gaze of their eye! *spooky music*
--
*+_Charos_+*
"Maybe there's a god above
but all I've ever learned from love
was how to shoot somebody who outdrew ya
and it's not a cry that you hear at night
it's not somebody who's seen the light
it's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"
--Jeff Buckley
-------------------------------------------------------
Visit: http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=BEC-997 for a great
site offering easy and free cash just for surfing the web! (it's legit)
Gichoke
>I would like to see Tyson vs Bruce
>Lee or Jet Li or Shaolin fighting monk and see what happens.
If you really wanna see that ,THEN YOU ARE SICK!!!!
I'd sooner sit through "I spit on your Grave" again.
> In a life and
>death situation the martial artist would come up on top.
Yes, Tyson(the martial artist) would pummel and anally rape those
A-C-T-O-R-S.....actors.
>Boxers are
>basically only trained to use their fist and they are limited to what they
>can do,
And monks and Jet Li are trained in dancing.
I'll go with the 220 pound muscle head that can punch.
> while the martial artist has the advantage of using his whole body
>as a weapon,
As evidenced in the movies, right?
>Those martial artist metioned have the
>abitities to kill a man with the palm of their hand.
Perhaps surprisingly, I have no problem with that statement.
Gi
Gichoke
>I'd be very interested in seeing Tyson attack someone like
>Wally Jay or Steven Segal (even if you don't like him, he's legitimately a
>7th Dan black belt in Aikido and a hell of a fighter)..
(cough)
>.I have a feeling
>that if Tyson didn't manage to land the first few punches he'd end up being
>choked out or with a broken arm.
Thats a mighty big "if"... kind of like "if" Royce Gracie gave me his back,
let me sink my hooks and get a nice tight grasp on his neck....
>.(I can bet they wouldn't try and box with
>a boxer)
I "bet" Wally Jay is what? 90? And Seagal is a 48 year old fat actor that would
positively SHIT if he saw Tyson comin' at him.
Gi
res04j22
based on the wording of the question.
It is interesting if we ever try to compare any styles rather the
individual, and then any one can be killed by accident....
"John Carlo" <ama...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18296-39...@storefull-154.iap.bryant.webtv.net...