what kind of martial art do the Navy SEALs use??
Kristian Kristensen
Which kind of martial art do the Navy SEALs use??
Greetings
Cookie
David Williams
In article <32C6D4...@geocities.com>, aggro...@geocities.com
says...
> Which kind of martial art do the Navy SEALs use??
> Greetings
> Cookie
>
John Bennett
>Which kind of martial art do the Navy SEALs use??
The best kind; automatic rifles and explosives.
Peter William Farkas
In article <MPG.d30971c7...@nntp.best.com>,
d...@wingchun.com (David Williams) wrote:
>In article <32C6D4...@geocities.com>, aggro...@geocities.com
>says...
>> Which kind of martial art do the Navy SEALs use??
>> Greetings
>> Cookie
>>
>Sniper rifles, suppressed weapons, explosives, and knives if need be.
Cute. Not sure on the specifics, but from some people I've met and books
I've read, SEALs use what works; their fighting style is very effective
(read: deadly)and practical (especially in close quarters) and is basically
made up of techniques from any martial art/style that is of use to them.
Nothing fancy, just quick and lethal.
PETE
pfa...@netcom.ca
Peter Wicks
Hi Kristian.
All jokes about high powered shotguns aside, I believe they now use
Jerry Peterson's SCARS system. Some people will probably disagree with
me, but Soldier Of Fortune did a little article on him a while back, and
usually if it pertains to the armed forces and is a scam, they'll be the
first ones to pass it on.
Peace, man. The CandleBoy.
David Williams
SCARS is taught during BUDS training for all of about 48hrs of instruction.- And Full Contact magazine did a scathing review of SCARS/HCS and called
it merely San Soo Kung Fu "lite" (about to Orange Belt level).
--
David Williams
mailto:d...@wingchun.com
http://www.wingchun.com/
Gao Sao of Ken Chung's Wing Chun Fook Ja Saj
Randy Schaub
Navy SEALS are electrical engineers who swim reeeaaal well, and can
operate most Navy equipment. I don't think they are required to take any
martial arts training beyond basic training. If they do, it is purely
elective.
Randy
--
Randy Schaub
ra...@meitx.com
/\ /\
/ \_/ \ ____
\_ _/ / / El
/ * * \ /^^^]
\_\O/_/ [ ] ZORRO
/ \ [ /
\ \_ / / BLANCO
[ [ / \/ _/
_[ [ \ /_/
[[[ [[[ [[[
El Dopa 1
The SEALS are not required to take self defense past basic training. Face
it these guys have technology and use that. Jerry peterson's system is
taught for a confidence boost not martial prowess, however Paul Vanuk does
teach some of the seal teams
David A. Lyons
Randy Schaub wrote:
>
> Navy SEALS are electrical engineers who swim reeeaaal well, and can
> operate most Navy equipment. I don't think they are required to take any
> martial arts training beyond basic training. If they do, it is purely
> elective.
>
> Randy
Electrical engineers? No, they're more like boatswain's mates,
machinist's mates, boiler techs, electrician's mates, hull technicians,
electronics technicians, gunner's mates, mess management specialists,
enginemen, hospital corpsmen, etc....; everything from airdales to deck
apes to snipes to spooks to turd chasers.
But the skills they learned in the Black Shoe Navy are forgotten in
BUD/S, except some boatswain mate skills, which are performed
underwater. And hospital corpsmen retain their jobs in the Teams as
well.
And not only do they swim "reeeaaal well", they run reeeaaal well, too.
Electrical engineers indeed! Navy SEALs are more like glorified recon
Marines that also blow a lot of stuff up underwater.
--
David Lyons
http://g50mc.org/members/lyonsd
Randy
David A. Lyons wrote:
>
> Electrical engineers indeed! Navy SEALs are more like glorified recon
> Marines that also blow a lot of stuff up underwater.
>
> --
> David Lyons
Oh, yeah, YOU were a navy SEAL, weren't you? (toured your homepage awhile
back).
And, by coincidence, you're an EE, too, right?
I said that cause my cousin's looking into becoming a SEAL, and he said
they told him a 2 year degree in EE would be extremely desirable, and is
increasingly common in the SEALS.
But SEALS are free to train in whatever martial arts they want, right? No
mandatory hand to hand beyond Basic? I guess the NAVY figures if they're
getting into fistfights on their missions, they're doing something wrong.
By the way- I will be calling those Shuai Chiao guys down here soon- i'll
let you know what they say...
Randy
DW
On Mon, 30 Dec 1996 00:20:21 -0800, this dude, Peter Wicks
<pet...@GEOCITIES.com> wrote:
>Hi Kristian.
>All jokes about high powered shotguns aside, I believe they now use
>Jerry Peterson's SCARS system. Some people will probably disagree with
>me, but Soldier Of Fortune did a little article on him a while back, and
>usually if it pertains to the armed forces and is a scam, they'll be the
>first ones to pass it on.
> Peace, man. The CandleBoy.
You could tell us anything about the SCARS system?
______________________________________________________________
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| _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/ _/_/ how to $$$MAKE MONEY FAST$$$,|
| _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ or buy your product, so DON'T |
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a...@accessone.com
I study in Tacoma WA. where we have two military bases. Fort Lewis (army) and Mc Chord AFB.
My instructor is a personal combat knife trainer for both Army Rangers & Air Force CCT's. It is quite
common to have these guys attend our regular classes as Filipino MA training is a natural interest for these
guys, and many pursue MA's of many various styles on thier own time.
It is quite normal to have special force intermingling, as I have worked out with Canadian Seals that
are taking special classes at Fort Lewis and visa versa. The Special Forces Soldier is just that, SPECIAL,
I have never been luckier to hang around these guys in class now & then as they are more than tough, they are
smart, real smart. No ego-type badass b.s. here, they will just quietly (or noisely if you prefer) take you out.
These men are trained killers when the need arises, but in the real world they will come out winners in
civilian life as well.
Chris.
nor....@netcom.ca
a...@accessone.com wrote:
>
> " It is quite normal to have special force intermingling, as I have worked out with Canadian Seals that
> are taking special classes at Fort Lewis and visa versa."
Canada doesn't have SEALs, never did. We used to have an Airborne
Regiment, but it was recently disbanded.
Rav...@usa.net
>Which kind of martial art do the Navy SEALs use??
>Greetings
>Cookie
We learn many styles. Each of us may choose the style we wish.
Walking alone in the pathway of the ancients,
Upheld by faith empty of all beliefs,
My treasure is the white cloud drifting aimlessly
across the vast blue sky.
Mark Urbin
In article <32d15eec...@news.ptd.net>, Rav...@usa.net wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:27:44 +0100, Kristian Kristensen
><aggro...@geocities.com> wrote:
>>Which kind of martial art do the Navy SEALs use??
>>Greetings
>>Cookie
>We learn many styles. Each of us may choose the style we wish.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
ecl...@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
Been there. Done that. Bought the t-shirt. Wore it home. Wore it out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
a...@accessone.com
while he was cross-training with the Mc Chord air force CCT's as he was in the area for about 30 days,
sorry for the error. He was a Canadian Special Forces member, I assumed he was Navy due to the
fact that he is also involved with air/sea rescue.
Chris
nor....@netcom.ca
a...@accessone.com wrote:
> This individual was from the Vancouver area and came down to train with my instructor.
> while he was cross-training with the Mc Chord air force CCT's as he was in the area for about 30 days,
> sorry for the error. He was a Canadian Special Forces member, I assumed he was Navy due to the
> fact that he is also involved with air/sea rescue.
>
> Chris
No problem for the error. I've known a lot of great guys who served in
the Forces, but also a few who loved spreading their own legend as soon
as they got into a new town. I was just worried that he may have been
spinning you a line.
Bcimins
It is sorry to say that the martial arts that the Navy Seals use is
confidential. One man, who trained the Navy Seals from 1978-1990, has
produced several video tapes (Hostile Control Systems) proclaiming the
usage of Navy Seal techniques. The punches were thrown from the hips
(hands down), and the escapes were very low percentage techniques. Navy
Seals have great firearms training and are great swimmers, but from the
looks of their trainer....They fight like fish too. Let's hope that this
man, no names, was replaced by a higher quality trainer.
David Lyons
Randy wrote:
>
>
> Oh, yeah, YOU were a navy SEAL, weren't you? (toured your homepage awhile
> back).
No, just went through BUD/S. Got hurt. Got discharged. Partied. Got
in lots of trouble but had fun doing it. Went to college. Now I'm
married with children and I got a haircut & got a real job.
> And, by coincidence, you're an EE, too, right?
Yeah. Got a master's degree.
> I said that cause my cousin's looking into becoming a SEAL, and he said
> they told him a 2 year degree in EE would be extremely desirable, and is
> increasingly common in the SEALS.
Sure. They want you to have as much education as possible, even in the
Black Shoe Navy. ET (electronics technician) is a source rating for
special warfare. To get into special warfare (SEALs), you have to have
a "source rating". Some source ratings are machinist's mates, boiler
techs, ETs, etc... If you have a rating that's not a source rating,
you'll either have to change or you can't get in. And if it's a rating
that's undermanned, or in high demand, it's hard to change.
The benefits of having a 2 year degree in electronics or electrical
stuff is it'll be easier for you to make it through ET or EM "A" school,
and then into BUD/S.
> But SEALS are free to train in whatever martial arts they want, right? No
> mandatory hand to hand beyond Basic? I guess the NAVY figures if they're
> getting into fistfights on their missions, they're doing something wrong.
I was told a long time ago that some unarmed combat was taught at
BUD/S. And occasionally the trainees would go into bars on the weekends
with a case of "whup-ass" and start "poppin' tabs". But I don't think
there's much truth to that story. It was told to "explain" why there
was no hand-to-hand taught at BUD/S anymore. Probably either a
"no-shitter" that was passed down from one class to another and twisted
over the years, or just a complete BS "legend". Now they probably have
to go through "sensitivity training" thanks to Ali-Bubba and his den of
theives in the White house.
> By the way- I will be calling those Shuai Chiao guys down here soon- i'll
> let you know what they say...
>
> Randy
--
David Lyons
http://g50mc.org/members/lyonsd
David Williams
Simon (g...@interalpha.co.uk) wrote:
: On Fri, 03 Jan 1997 18:17:01 GMT, dyw...@indigo.ie (DW) wrote:
: >You could tell us anything about the SCARS system?
: Early last year I posted to this newsgroup requesting information
: concerning Jerry Peterson's SCARS system. Short of purchasing the
: videotapes, it was difficult to determine whether the claims made for
: this system were genuine. I already have some experience of Wing Chun,
: and was interested to arrive at the truth.
: I received a number of private responses from people. Some were also
: interested in the system, while others seemed to be launching some
: kind of personal attack, based upon certain articles, they'd heard or
: read. Some of these latter emails seemed very extreme, and full of
: judgements that clearly did not originate from personal experience. In
: the end, I was able to locate some martial artists who had actually
: purchased the SCARS system, and trained in it. I was pleased to hear
: that it was regarded very highly; with this, I decided to purchase the
: two tapes covering the HCS (i.e. Hostile Control Systems), and also
: the others covering weapons (ie. blunt edged, sharp edged, and
: firearms). This came to eight tapes in all.
: The tapes turned out to be very well done, and it didn't take long to
: realize that this system is absolutely lethal ! The system is quite
: clearly designed to maim and kill, and it achieves it so easily, that
: at first it is a bit disturbing to see !
I own the HCS tapes. THey are very well done from a professional
standpoint. lots of multi shot moves, split screens, slow motion etc.
Given the system is a distillation of Jimmy Woo's San Soo Kung Fu,
which in itself is apparently kempo based, the strikes if properly
done and without resistance from your target should cause damage.
Presuming you really can deliver them unimpeded from their intended
target and with the power necessary to inflict damage.
: I still don't have any genuine information about the use of the SCARS
: system by the US special services, but it would seem very probable
: that the claim made in this respect is also genuine. As for the
: magazine articles that have implied that this system is a fraud, their
: authors make me feel disgust ! It just goes to show how magazines can
Umm. considering that the folks at Full Contact actually talked to
the Navy SEALS about the ->24<- hours of SCARS training that candidates
get during BUDS training, your opinion is baseless.
And as a followup I have the actual SCARS manual (no not the HCS one)
and I've seen video of Peterson working out with some Navy SPECWAR
folks.
: be abused by those pursuing their own personal vendetta. If it is
: outrageous to some that Peterson claims his system is more dangerous
: than what passes for much of martial arts these days, then they need
: to take a closer look !
More people have taken issue with the claims of the advertisements,
which state it to be the most effective and to allow someone
untrained in martial arts to "take out" experienced fighters from
ANY style.
When asked to back this up...Peterson DECLINED. The Gracies at least
will not do this. If Peterson is the ultimate warrior on the planet
he should be able to take out Rickson Gracie with ease in an NHB
private match.
: The Peterson system does not detract in any way from a true fighting
: art; what underlies it, is the essence of the reality of effective
: combat in life threatening situations. A system founded on cold
: analytical thought, and considerable military experience.
More a system founded on beginning techniques of Kung Fu San Soo.
: If I had to confront an attacker with some kind of fighting skill, I'd
: rather face someone with years of training in say kung-fu or karate,
: than someone with 6 months in the Peterson system, for the simple
: reason that this system is designed to kill or inflicted serious
: injuries within seconds ! Everything is oriented towards creating
In a perfect world. Lets see you against Tank Abbot on the street.
All arts have lethal techniques. Having the proficiency, and timing
to deliver them on demand takes YEARS of practice and study with
a good instructor.
: reflexes that require no conscious thought. Many martial arts have the
As any martial art will do. Wing Chun trains this. Kenpo trains this.
Kajukenbo trains this. Chen Taiji trains this.
: concept of an exchange of blows; there is the idea that you could be
: receive a kick or a punch, and counter with one of your own. In the
: SCARS system, if someone hits you once, you've pretty much had it !
How do you know this? What are you really basing this on? Have you
really seen it applied in combat or NHB? Nope.
: For those who are wondering how this system might differ from their
: own, I would say that it is almost entirely strike oriented. At the
: *minimum* level of injury, the strikes are designed to attack to
: nervous system, incapacitating the victim. Many strikes are designed
: to inflict fatal injuries. The parts of the system that involve
: manipulating a part of the body, if not designed to be fatal (as in
: breaking the neck), are able to cause serious breaks or dislocations,
: some of which would leave the respective limb permanently damaged.
: Even when a throw is executed, it invariably aimed at breaking the
: victims neck. Special methods of training have to be used, to simulate
: the reality of this kind of fighting, because conventional sparring is
: not posssible because of the injuries that would result. If all this
: sound very extreme, then you're right, it is; that is the true reality
: of fighting ! It is better to understand that effective fighting is
: usually very brutal, and avoid it in the first place, than to have a
: nicer imaginary idea of it, that might cost you your life when a
: harsher reality presents itself.
As do Judo, Jujutsu, Aikijujitsu, iado, escrima, ...
How do you practice Bil Jee eye strikes?
Arm breaks from Chum Kiu?
Leg Destruction from Mook Yan Jong?
: As for my reason for pursuing something like the Peterson system; I
: wanted something that would help protect me while working in remote
: regions of South-America. Seeing a few deaths up close, does a lot to
: change your perception of the nature of real threat !
It sounds more like you want a quick fix. IF so get a firearm.
: When I first started looking for information regarding the SCARS
: system, it was difficult to find. Since seeing the system for what it
: is, I have always intended to write something in support of it, for
: the benefit of those who are now in the same position that I was a
: year ago.
Carry a gun and plenty of ammo. Go visti Rio and train in Gracie Jujutsu.
HCS is not going to make you superman.
: Simon R Knight
Zeeberex
This is the kind of stuff I post in jest about, there is no one true
style, the newer styles borrowed from the older styles that borrowed from
styles older than that, it's that simple.......it's not the style that is
lethal, it is the emphasis of training that backs it up that makes it what
is, case and point, train in Jujitsu for tournament play, that's what it's
good for, for police or other profesionals to train and use jujitsu for
suspect control, it's probably goona be applied with a different
attitude....
Jim
A lot of military bases contract high level Hapkido and Hwarang
Do guys who teach leathal moves and throws. They also hire JKD guys
to teach dirty knive fighting styles. The best martial art is the
best techniques for a fast kill from all of the martial arts. Do not
confuse self defence and lethal offence martial arts with martial art
sports. All the historic quick kill moves have been eliminated in
sports for obvious reasons. Sports are like PG-13 and real combat
techniques are like XXX, which would you rather know if your car
breaks down in the wrong time in the wrong place.
Al from Chicago
Bcimins
What do you people think about the HOSTILE CONTROL SYSTEM??
Sincerely,
Brian Cimins
Student of Combined Martial Science
http://www.risesun.com
We4ski
S.C.A.R.E.S it is not an "art" but a system.
David Williams
We4ski wrote:
>
> S.C.A.R.E.S it is not an "art" but a system.
Its SCARS.
Special
Combat
Aggressive
Reactionary
Systems
At least that's what it says on the cover:
SCARS/CFC Hand to Hand Combat for United States
Special Operational Forces Manual.
--
David Williams mailto:d...@wingchun.com
Planet Wing Chun® http://www.wingchun.com/
Bay Area Wing Chun Association http://www.thesphere.com/SJWC
S. Norlock
I think that if Jerry Peterson had (a) credited Jimmy Woo and San Soo
as the basis of his system, and (b) used his experience with the SEALs
more like a job reference rather than implying that he was teaching the
official SEAL combatives, this arguement would not be taking place.
The system may be effective, what the question is about is ridiculous
marketing tactics. Peterson has brought any criticism down on himself
for this.
HoopDog001
Is it just me, or does this Knight guy sound like he has never been in a
real fight?
It seems to me that anybody with any real experience would not write about
such sure-fire stuff.
Alvin Kan
(when it was still in existence, God rest its soul!)went to check out
his seal claim and guess what he is a fraud!!!
Alvin Kan
University of New South Wales Martial Arts Club
Progressive Protection Systems
Bruce Bibee
I agree with the observation that this discussion wouldn't be happening
if Petersen had given credit to Jimmy H. Woo. He did train with Jimmy,
then opened a San Soo school in San Diego. I worked out with him there
in the late 70's. When he got this thing going with the SEALS, I talked
to him about it, and he indicated that he had left the San Soo fold and
had begun to develop his own system. His system, however, is based on
San Soo principles. Primarily, attack the nervous system, and you will
have your opponent's body working for you.
In normal San Soo training, it takes about a year of hard work to get
to the place where you're a really good street fighter. Historically,
this was necessary because the Chinese didn't waste much time in "boot
camp." The continued training happened if you survived combat, and it
included form, advanced techniques, etc. That format is still used to
this day in reputable San Soo schools.
Additionally, the observation that San Soo seems to be kempo-based is
backwards. Kempo is southern Chinese based; San Soo is a southern
Chinese system that is known in China as Tsai-Li-Ho-Fut-Hung gar chu'an.
It was developed into a martial art at a Quan Yin monastery in
Kwang-tung Province. Jimmy H. Woo brought it to the U.S., and began
teaching it in 1959. It's not that well known because sparring and
tournament competition is impossible. It is a system that has as its
only goal the survival of the San Soo fighter.
Petersen's SCARS system is a distillation of San Soo principles and
fighting techniques; it's an application of San Soo to a specific
problem. I do the same kind of thing when I teach women's self-defense;
I put together a group of San Soo techniques that I've found work well
for women who don't plan to invest the time in a long-term training
program. Like a CPR course instead of getting a medical degree.
In short, what he teaches works. And how San Soo fighters train also
teaches them how to slip punches (thereby limiting the damage when they
are hit). It is an awesome system... But, in the end, any system is only
as good as the practitioner him or herself.
Bruce Bibee,
Master
Kung-Fu San Soo
Cary Martynuik
I happen to be rather proficent in S.C.A.R.S. fighting techniques. (No,
not that Hostile Control Systems SHIT seen in S.O.F. & Martial Arts
mags) I was introduced to this "style" while I was in Florida on a
skydiving trip. A friend of mine from the Special Forces community whom
I jump with down there originally introduced me to this self defence
style and I was very skeptical of its effectiveness at first. He changed
my mind in a hurry!!! It IS indeed taught to U.S. Special Forces (a.k.a.
SEALS, DELTA, as well as some SWAT units,although it is NOT the only
stuff they learn pertaining to hand to hand combat) simply because it is
a very effective style which can be learned VERY QUICKLY! It is based on
the theory of HUMAN AUTONOMIC REACTION. Simply put, this means that each
strike is based upon what reaction it will cause, in order to set the
target up for the next strike
Example: if you strike a guy in the eye area, his hands WILL go up to
his struck eye, even if only momentarily leaving him open for another
shot, say to the groin. Hit someone there, and their knees WILL buckle,
their head will come up (exposing the throat), his ass sticks out & his
back arches, his mouth opens wide & he'll grab his groin area. Knowing
in your mind before you hit him that this will DEFINITLY occur if you
choose to strike, you can already know what the next strike sequence
will be.
There are many martial arts which don't subscribe to this training
theory. I took Karate and found it to be hopeless in a street fight.
SCARS was a different story. If you are fast, then you can DISMANTLE an
opponent with it. I am not just shooting shit. I have been forced to
defend myself numerous times. In one instance, an asshole cut me off on
the road while I was driving, so I honked and gave him the finger. At
the next red light he and a buddy got out of their car and strutted on
over. An altercation insued with the 1st asshole, and after 3 strikes he
was out cold on the road after being taken out and having his fat head
smashed off the pavement. His friend decided that he would just stay
over near THEIR car until I got back in my car and drove off.
I didn't tell you guys this to impress you. I told it to impress UPON
you that this technique is effective. This was the 1st altercation I was
involved in since learning SCARS, & was SCARED SHITLESS!!!!
(Particularly because the guy was a good bit larger than myself). But
the strike moves came very naturally and AUTONOMICALLY. The techniques
are very fluid and seem to follow each other very smoothly, making it
rather easy to learn. (I spent hours and hours and hours sparring prior
to ever becoming what I would deem proficient in this stlye, though).
Don't knock it until you try it. Now, that shit in magazine ads you are
talking about is different (Hostile Control Systems). I can't say
whether or not the techniques are essentially the same or not (although
both were designed by Jerry Peterson, so I would assume them to be). I
believe The Hostile Control Systems version is a drastically scaled
down version, as it doesn't even seem to touch the knife and gun defence
techniques taught in the SEAL S.C.A.R.S. course. I do know that the
stuff I was taught is very effective and I would feel confident in using
it to save my ass again without question.
David Williams
Bcimins (bci...@aol.com) wrote:
: What do you people think about the HOSTILE CONTROL SYSTEM??
Its *almost* as deadly as "tensegrity".
Rav...@usa.net
On Sun, 05 Jan 1997 08:00:47 GMT, Rav...@usa.net wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:27:44 +0100, Kristian Kristensen
><aggro...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
>>Which kind of martial art do the Navy SEALs use??
>>Greetings
>>Cookie
>
>We learn many styles. Each of us may choose the style we wish.
>
>
>
>
>
>Walking alone in the pathway of the ancients,
>Upheld by faith empty of all beliefs,
>My treasure is the white cloud drifting aimlessly
>across the vast blue sky.
One art is know as Haw-rang-do
Which means in english displacment of the bones
and Aikido,Judo,among others But these are differentfor each
individual chosses his own style.
My heartbeat is content and walking is at ease,
for body and mind no longer run toward this
true horizon beneath my feet.
Without care not-knowing where I go,
wandering,yet never leaving my true home.
Cary Martynuik
Simon wrote:
> defence techniques taught in the Seal SCARS course; the weapons
> training is separate, but uses HCS movements as a foundation. The HCS
> movements are certainly do not appear as dramatic as when the are
> applied in weapons fighting, but they are an essential part of the
> SCARS system.
>
> The full SCARS system, as taught to special services, includes much
> more than the simple HCS foundation, and a good deal is now on tape.
> According to Jerry Peterson, there is no difference between the SCARS
> course available to the public, and the one taught to the Navy Seals,
> *except* that there are methods that are still classified, because
> they are used in special combat situations. The situation is changing
> all the time though, and some of these techniques may be released
> before long.
>
> I presently have eight tapes, and there are more available still. They
> cover HCS, blunt edged weapons, sharp edged weapons and knife
> fighting, firearms, body weapons, training methodology, and more. From
> the videos, it's clear that there are some very lethal moves which
> exist, in addition to the ones formally covered. These are take-downs
> that require more advanced co-ordination. From what I can see, less
> movements are used, and there are further kill-shots.
>
> As you have found out, the SCARS you learned (which sounds no
> different to the SCARS available from Peterson), is very effective !
> How people can keep on quoting Full Contact magazine as provinding
> them with the truth about this system is beyond me; it makes wonder
> what they think the Navy would have said otherwise ...
>
> " Hello Mr Public relations for the Navy man, were a soon to be out of
> print martial-arts magazine, and we wan't to know the truth about the
> methods employed by your Seals in covert military operations, so we
> can tell everyone. Is it true that you use a super effective combat
> system known as SCARS HCS, that is almost unbeatable ! ? "
>
> " ... err, well yes it looks like you've got us there ! Ok, we admitt
> it ! We've always kept it very secret, but we now you've asked us, we
> must admit everything; we don't dare not tell you the truth "Full
> Contact" ! "
>
> Simon R Knight
I was unaware that the HCS version of Mr. Peterson's system (the one
available to the public) now covers firearm and other weapon defence
techniques! Thanks for the clarification!
What are your feelings on this system? I, as mentioned, found it VERY
effective in real world situations. How about you?
David Williams
Simon (g...@interalpha.co.uk) wrote:
: " Hello Mr Public relations for the Navy man, were a soon to be out of
: print martial-arts magazine, and we wan't to know the truth about the
: methods employed by your Seals in covert military operations, so we
: can tell everyone. Is it true that you use a super effective combat
: system known as SCARS HCS, that is almost unbeatable ! ? "
: " ... err, well yes it looks like you've got us there ! Ok, we admitt
: it ! We've always kept it very secret, but we now you've asked us, we
: must admit everything; we don't dare not tell you the truth "Full
: Contact" ! "
: Simon R Knight
Guess you'd have to know who the authors of the review were and
their relationship to the SPECWAR/Special Forces community.
Given that "Tactical Response Solutions" already had run 5 page ads in all
the major martial art mags and Soldier of Fortune, essentially stating
that the SEALS were unbeatable with this SCARS system.
That after watching the video you too could defeat anyone in the world,
except a SEAL of course.
Then Given that Jerry when he started running his own ads dismissing
Frank Cucci & Paul Vunak actually listed the Course number.
As you are probably clueless about them, Frank WAS in the SEALS for 10 YEARS.
It is a well known fact that Paul has held classes for TEAM 2 in Virginia.
As has Duncan Leung.
Sure is some secret isn't it Simon?
Now perhaps you only saw Jerry's own ad for HCS instead of the steroid
version put out by TRS. If so, then I understand why you might not see
how funny those claims were. And why it was interesting that HCS turned down
the invitation to show what they had to instructors in other arts.
If HCS/SCARS is indeed the deadliest fighting system on the planet, then
Jerry could show this once and for all by heading over to either the
Gracie Academy or Rickson Gracie's school and challenging Rickson and beating
him to a pulp. I don't think its going to happen. Its marketing after all.
Thats not to say that you can't beat someone after training with SCARS, just
that it is not the acme of combat.
Ghostwheel
David Williams wrote:
> Now perhaps you only saw Jerry's own ad for HCS instead of the steroid
> version put out by TRS. If so, then I understand why you might not see
> how funny those claims were. And why it was interesting that HCS
> turned down the invitation to show what they had to instructors in
> other arts.
My Sensei has been using film for studying martial arts for some 30+
years, theres even papers written by him and a professor of physics
(University of Colorad) on the net at:
http://www.lstm.uni-erlangen.de/~joerg/Aikido/Txt/Iaido/iaibib2.txt
vvvvvvvv (My Sensei)
Burkhard, D.G., J. Patterson and R. Rapue 1967, #Effect of Film
Feedback on Learning the Motor Skills of Karate#, Percept. and Motor
Skills 25:65-69.
We bought a looked at Jerry Petersons HCS, and if HCS if HSC is the
basis of any fighting style it has SERIOUS flaws.
> If HCS/SCARS is indeed the deadliest fighting system on the planet,
> then Jerry could show this once and for all by heading over to either
> the Gracie Academy or Rickson Gracie's school and challenging Rickson
> and beating him to a pulp. I don't think its going to happen. Its
> marketing after all.
A-4QN-Men
Ghostwheel aka Kelly Rosato
------------=Kajukenbo=------------
Through this fist way, one gains long life and happiness
Ghostwheel
David Williams wrote:
>
> > We bought a looked at Jerry Petersons HCS, and if HCS if HSC is the
> > basis of any fighting style it has SERIOUS flaws.
>
> you use to make your determinations?
>
> HCS or SCARS appears to be a distillation of techniques from Jimmy
> Woo's San Soo Kung Fu. In turn, others have said that San Soo, is a
> repackaging of Chinese Kempo, and is a contemporary of Ed Parker's
> "American Kenpo".
Well strange that you should mention that, (San Soo) because in
a rather lenghty chat at a house warming BBQ last summer I talked with
another Navy Special Warefare team member and asked him about SCARS,
Jerry Peterson, etc.. I don't remember the guy's name and he was only an
NCO. But, he told me that the only OFFICIAL program for the NSW units
that he was aware of was San Soo. So I went and watched a couple of San
Soo classes and it looks really good (if my Sensei dies, since he has a
history of heart problems I would go there next). It didn't look much
like HCS to me.
As for evaluation the HCS system, Dr. Rapue revied (several
times) the tapes with another phyisology and martial arts master
(Williem DeThouras) and the both came away with with the opinion that
the system was impractical in several factors:
1. The system commits the body to counters that leave the person wide
open and square to the target.
2. Loads for power and some blocks have a large loop to the back that
leaves the person open to strikes, rushes, kicks, etc..
3. There are the dubious claims that no martial arts training, or
further training are needed to make the system effective once viewed,
the tapes do not even recommend that the techniques on them be practiced
with a partner so as to commit the move to "body memory/preconscious
response". Etc, etc., etc.,
For any more I would have to ask him again, its been almost 2 years
since he reviewed it.
--
Ghostwheel
Richard H. Kim wrote:
>
> In the Year of Our Lord Wed, 22 Jan 1997 03:52:29 -0700, the Heathen
> Ghostwheel <kro...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > Well strange that you should mention that, (San Soo) because in
> >a rather lenghty chat at a house warming BBQ last summer I talked wit
> >Jerry Peterson, etc.. I don't remember the guy's name and he was only
>
> "Only an NCO"? Haha, thats funny. NCOs run the military. Without
> NCOs the military would gi SCHLUMP! and fall over cuz of no backbone.
>
Good point. Maybe thats why he knew what he was talking about.
Richard H. Kim
In the Year of Our Lord Wed, 22 Jan 1997 03:52:29 -0700, the Heathen
Ghostwheel <kro...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Well strange that you should mention that, (San Soo) because in
>a rather lenghty chat at a house warming BBQ last summer I talked with
>another Navy Special Warefare team member and asked him about SCARS,
>Jerry Peterson, etc.. I don't remember the guy's name and he was only an
>NCO. But, he told me that the only OFFICIAL program for the NSW units
^^^^^^^^^^
"Only an NCO"? Haha, thats funny. NCOs run the military. Without
NCOs the military would gi SCHLUMP! and fall over cuz of no backbone.
Weedhopper
A sucking chest wound is Nature's way of telling you to slow down.
- Murphy's Laws of Combat #5