Tell me about Emin Boztepe and Leung Ting
Michael E. Adams
Reimer Studt <rrs...@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> wrote:
>My impression is that Mr. Kernspecht is the driving force in this organization.
>Maybe that isn't the right impression, but as you say 'the system is improved
>in Germany'. Why not in China ? When they are so extraordinary there ?
Si-Kung Leung Ting's top student is Sifu Keith Kernspecht, head of European
Wing Tsun. He has contributed greatly to the Wing Tsun system, particularly
with the creation of the Lat Sau fighting training program.
<<snip>>
Mike Peter wrote:
>> Yes, he tends to be arrogant. But, as the saying
>>goes, it ain't bragging if you can do it.
I would tend to use the phrase "self-assured" rather than arrogant. I
think Si-Pak Emin has a very clear view of his strengths and limitations.
He has a very strong self-image, but it seems to be an accurate one.
>Most of the time arrogant people are not as good as they think. No one
>of the real good people I have met until now were arrogant. And the
>arrogant people I have met until now were not real good. Maybe there
>is a lesson for me to learn. Maybe at one of his seminars.
I seem to have deleted the post in which someone (you?) asked whether
seminars are open to non-members. The answer is normally yes. I think
if you go there and meet him you will come away with a more accurate
view of him as a person and as a martial artist. And I suspect you will
be glad that you went.
Mike Adams
wing...@mcs.com
steve vivian
>
>
>
>
> Mike Peter wrote:
> >> Yes, he tends to be arrogant. But, as the saying
> >>goes, it ain't bragging if you can do it.
>
> I would tend to use the phrase "self-assured" rather than arrogant. I
> think Si-Pak Emin has a very clear view of his strengths and limitations.
> He has a very strong self-image, but it seems to be an accurate one.
>
> >Most of the time arrogant people are not as good as they think. No one
> >of the real good people I have met until now were arrogant. And the
> >arrogant people I have met until now were not real good. Maybe there
> >is a lesson for me to learn. Maybe at one of his seminars.
>
> I seem to have deleted the post in which someone (you?) asked whether
> seminars are open to non-members. The answer is normally yes. I think
> if you go there and meet him you will come away with a more accurate
> view of him as a person and as a martial artist. And I suspect you will
> be glad that you went.
>
> Mike Adams
> wing...@mcs.com
As I've posted a couple other times over the last three or four months, I
highly recommend one of Emin Boztepe's seminars. I do not find him
arrogant, in the normal sense of the word. He lets his technique do
most of the talking, and after one spends a few hours watching/training
with him, there's simply no doubt as to his validity. What some might
call "arrogance" I'd call "intensity", but he's not at all hostile. In
sum, I'd say both his techniques and his words are worth paying close
attention to; there's not an ounce of b.s. in either.
By the way, Mike Adams--who has posted a few remarks about W.T.--is
himself a ver fine WT artist in his own right and reguarly hosts Sifu
Boztepe.
cheers,
steve
Michael Dash
>
>In article <4c3sur$n...@Mercury.mcs.com>, wing...@MCS.COM says...
>
><snip>
>
>I have a hard time believeing that Art was trying to arrange a fight outside
>of the UFC, which is his bread and butter, but anyway....
I talked to Art Davie and he said he has no idea who Mike Adams is and has
been involved in trying to arrange a fight between Boztepe and a Graice since
Boztepe's challenge. He knows Barry Meyer and side that Barry is a big fan
of MA. Many people call him asking to set up a fight with Royce and he just
gives them Rorion's number saying that he (Art) doeesn't represent the
Grracies. WOW dissolved after UFC 5 and Art hasn't been in contact with the
Gracies since aobut that time. Also Art said that he is heavily involved
with the UFC and wouldn't involve himself in setting up aprivate fight.
It sounds to me like this was something this guy Barry was trying to put
together on his own.
--
Michael Dash
das...@earthlink.net
********************************************************************
*The above statements represent my personal opinion and are not *
*necessarily the opinion of any other individual or organization. *
********************************************************************
Michael Dash
<snip>
I have a hard time believeing that Art was trying to arrange a fight outside
of the UFC, which is his bread and butter, but anyway....
>I called Si-Pak Emin. He was also surprised, since he had been convinced
>that Rorion and Royce were afraid to fight for real. Si-Pak Emin said
>he would fight either Rorion or Royce. He added that it was Rorion
>whom he really wanted to fight, so if they wanted Royce to fight then
>he still wanted to fight Rorion either immediately after or on another
>occasion because he believes that Rorion is responsible for all of the
>problems between them.
I've asked this before and I'll ask it agina, WHAT PROBLEMS? I still
have yet to get a clear answer from teh Boztepe disciples as to what it
was Rorion specifically did that makes Boztepe upset with him and not
any other Gracie? Is it because Rorion dared to put Royce in the UFC and
publicly demonstrate the effectiveness of GJJ, thus making people question
the effectiveness of other martial arts including WT? What exactly is
Boztepe's problem here? Please be specific.
>I called Barry back and informed him that Sifu Emin would fight. I
>told him I would call the school owners next. I told him I was
>concerned that they might not agree, because of liability (the school
>owners were in no way associated with Wing Tsun - we were simply
>renting the school for the seminar). Barry suggested that we not
>tell them, that we just let it happen as if we didn't know it was
>going to. I told him I could not do that but that I would call him
>back after their decision, and that, if they said no, we could do it
>out on the street or perhaps another nearby location. The idea of
>"just doing it on the street" seemed to concern Barry. It did me
>too, since I would expect the Police to be called by someone.
You really expect us to believe that you seriously talked with legitimate
fight promoters about holding a fight ON THE STREET?
>The school owners told me they would have to discuss it and get back
>with me. Within about 24 hours, they called me back. We had their
>permission to have the fight there. I called Si-Pak Emin before
>calling Barry back. He told me he had tried many times to fight
>them and did not really believe they were serious but would fight
>them if they show up. "I am fair," he said. He added that he was
>"not going to talk around this time - they either fight or they
>don't. They come, they fight, that's it. No contracts, no referees.
>If they don't come this time that's it. This is their second chance."
Please, spare us Boztepe's rhetoric. If he wanted to really fight them, as
ou claim, it would have happened already. Nothing, and I mean nothing, has
stopped Boztepe from showing up at the Acadmey or one of the seminars and
challenging Rorion, or any other Gracie for that matter.
>I called Barry Meyer. He said that he would call Rorion and tell
>him that we had a date and a place and that Sifu Emin Boztepe would
>fight.
>
>Barry called back. Rorion said Royce would come and fight Si-Pak
>Emin - but that Si-Pak Emin had to put up a $100,000! Though I
>had been waiting for the other shoe to drop, I was taken aback.
It has already been posted that due to the success of Royce in the UFC,
the Gracie can't possible fight all the people who want to fight them. so
they limit themselves to fights with money and people with proven fight
records. I also don't know how much of this story is true. Sorry Mike,
but there are some inconsistencies here, and you are so deluded with Boztepe
that you can't ever be objective regarding anything about him.
<snip>
>Barry called me. He had Art Davie conferenced in on the call. I told
>them what Si-Pak Emin had said. Art claimed he was in no way personally
>involved but said that Barry had an interesting offer for us, that Barry
>was willing to put up the $50,000 for Si-Pak Emin (note that the price
>had suddenly dropped from $100,000 to $50,000!) in exchange for the
>international video rights. Art's definitely silver tongued. He was
This is the part that seems strange to me. Money is one of the issues
keeping Royce out of the UFC. If 50,000 or 100,000 wasn't enough for Royce
to stay in the UFC, then why would he consider $50,00 to fight Boztepe? I
haven't talked to Rorion or Art about this (they're hard to get a hold of)
but I have a hard time believing this part.
>From my perspective and from Sifu Emin Boztepe's perspective the issue
>is finished. Si-Pak Emin is convinced that Rorion is chicken to fight
>him personally (and that seems to me to be the case).
Please, coming from the biggest baby in the martial arts world, it's pretty
difficult to give much credence to the master backpeddler calling anyone a
chicken.
> He has given
>him many chances to resolve this issue, including this last one which
>their side originated.
Wait a second. You said that a guy named Barry initiated this! You've not
said anything to suggest that you spoke directly to Rorion or somehow
confirmed that he initiated this, if it is indeed true. Maybe Barry was
trying to get Boztepe interested first before he took his idea to Rorion.
>I don't think he will fight now unless they
>come walking into some place where he is and say they are there to
>fight. No money, no referees, no bull. To me, it looks like the two men
>are on totally different wavelengths and neither can understand the
>other. Sifu Emin Boztepe lives in a world where personal and family
>honor are something he would fight to the death for, and he feels
>gravely insulted and dishonored by Rorion Gracie. Rorion seems to
>live in a world that revolves around money, and honor is only a word
>for advertisements and children. And, apparently, never the twain
>shall meet.
You say the words Boztepe and honor as if they're synonymous when in fact
they're contradictions. If Boztepe were truky honorable, then he would have
stuck by his brazen challenge. Boztepe has publicly proven that he is not a
man of his word and therfore dishonorable. He may have snowed you into
thinking that Rorion/Royce, and the rest of the world is afraid to fight him.
I like the way you conveniently forget that Royce has put his neck on the
line with many guys in the UFC that would have liked nohting more than beat a
Gracie. I think Royce has pretty well proven his willingness to fight.
Boztepe is just the "circus clown" of the martial arts world, and, thanks to
your post, you have revived a thread that will give us much pleasure in
making fun of him.
Michael Peter
>In article <4c3sur$n...@Mercury.mcs.com>, wing...@MCS.COM says...
>
><snip>
>
>I have a hard time believeing that Art was trying to arrange a fight outside
>of the UFC, which is his bread and butter, but anyway....
I'm suprised at this comment given the difficulty the TWC fighters are having
getting in the UFC.
>
>>I called Si-Pak Emin. He was also surprised, since he had been convinced
>>that Rorion and Royce were afraid to fight for real. Si-Pak Emin said
>>he would fight either Rorion or Royce. He added that it was Rorion
>>whom he really wanted to fight, so if they wanted Royce to fight then
>>he still wanted to fight Rorion either immediately after or on another
>>occasion because he believes that Rorion is responsible for all of the
>>problems between them.
>
>I've asked this before and I'll ask it agina, WHAT PROBLEMS? I still
>have yet to get a clear answer from teh Boztepe disciples as to what it
>was Rorion specifically did that makes Boztepe upset with him and not
>any other Gracie?
Your question has been answered many times, and given your close ties to
the Gracie family, should be self-evident. The character of a person is
pretty obvious when you meet that person. Unless you are too shallow
to pick up on such things.Given Rorion's reputation even among his own
relatives, I'm suprised to be even having this conversation.
Rorion is responsible for the marketing that insulted just about every
single martial art in existence *except* for GJJ. Rorion was the only
Gracie involved in the business side of the Gracie/Davie/UFC fiasco
that led to the character assassination of Emin here and abroad after
he declined an invitation to participate in the UFC. Rorion reneged on
the only fight time and location ever agreed to (albeit temporarily).
Rorion told Emin that he would "keep writing letters forever," a typical
practice in law in *any* country (second to the practice of writing
a threatening letter for intimidation purposes). Rorion refused numerous
direct challenges. And then there's this latest bit of information.
I'm sure I've left out some other things as well. There are probably
other reasons kept strictly between Emin and Rorion.
>>I called Barry back and informed him that Sifu Emin would fight. I
>>told him I would call the school owners next. I told him I was
>>concerned that they might not agree, because of liability (the school
>>owners were in no way associated with Wing Tsun - we were simply
>>renting the school for the seminar). Barry suggested that we not
>>tell them, that we just let it happen as if we didn't know it was
>>going to. I told him I could not do that but that I would call him
>>back after their decision, and that, if they said no, we could do it
>>out on the street or perhaps another nearby location. The idea of
>>"just doing it on the street" seemed to concern Barry. It did me
>>too, since I would expect the Police to be called by someone.
>
>You really expect us to believe that you seriously talked with legitimate
>fight promoters about holding a fight ON THE STREET?
>
Which is probably why Barry would be concerned, no?
It would be nice, and your attempts at bias less obvious, if you said
"I" and "me" instead of "we" and "us," unless you've got a mouse in
your pocket. You can only ever speak for yourself, unless others explicitly
state that you may speak for them. A sophomoric error.
>>The school owners told me they would have to discuss it and get back
>>with me. Within about 24 hours, they called me back. We had their
>>permission to have the fight there. I called Si-Pak Emin before
>>calling Barry back. He told me he had tried many times to fight
>>them and did not really believe they were serious but would fight
>>them if they show up. "I am fair," he said. He added that he was
>>"not going to talk around this time - they either fight or they
>>don't. They come, they fight, that's it. No contracts, no referees.
>>If they don't come this time that's it. This is their second chance."
>
>Please, spare us Boztepe's rhetoric. If he wanted to really fight them, as
>ou claim, it would have happened already.
Not necessarily. What you would do does not transfer to the actions of another.
To presume so, worse, to _expect_ so, is naive.
> Nothing, and I mean nothing, has
>stopped Boztepe from showing up at the Acadmey or one of the seminars and
>challenging Rorion, or any other Gracie for that matter.
>
Other than the fact that those places aren't very neutral,and that Emin would
be representing an entire organization, and can't go strolling into a school
or a seminar at a whim. Other than the fact that Emin currently spends half
his time here and half his time abroad, and is teaching seminars most of
the time he is here. Other than the fact that the appropriate thing to do
would be to coordinate with the other camp. Otherwise a WT victory might
bring cries of "Foul." Given your comments on the Boztepe/Cheung incident,
you for one would definitely be the loudest screamer. Spare me your empty
premises.
>>I called Barry Meyer. He said that he would call Rorion and tell
>>him that we had a date and a place and that Sifu Emin Boztepe would
>>fight.
>>
>>Barry called back. Rorion said Royce would come and fight Si-Pak
>>Emin - but that Si-Pak Emin had to put up a $100,000! Though I
>>had been waiting for the other shoe to drop, I was taken aback.
>
>It has already been posted that due to the success of Royce in the UFC,
>the Gracie can't possible fight all the people who want to fight them. so
>they limit themselves to fights with money and people with proven fight
>records.
Like it was stated: they fight for money, and only money, then.
>I also don't know how much of this story is true. Sorry Mike,
>but there are some inconsistencies here, and you are so deluded with Boztepe
>that you can't ever be objective regarding anything about him.
>
Point out inconsistencies. Other than the fact that it is impossible to write
without bias, there are no logical, or other, holes here.
><snip>
>
>>Barry called me. He had Art Davie conferenced in on the call. I told
>>them what Si-Pak Emin had said. Art claimed he was in no way personally
>>involved but said that Barry had an interesting offer for us, that Barry
>>was willing to put up the $50,000 for Si-Pak Emin (note that the price
>>had suddenly dropped from $100,000 to $50,000!) in exchange for the
>>international video rights. Art's definitely silver tongued. He was
>
>This is the part that seems strange to me. Money is one of the issues
>keeping Royce out of the UFC. If 50,000 or 100,000 wasn't enough for Royce
>to stay in the UFC, then why would he consider $50,00 to fight Boztepe? I
>haven't talked to Rorion or Art about this (they're hard to get a hold of)
>but I have a hard time believing this part.
>
Why would he fight? Because his brother told him to. The sizeable momentum
this antagonism b/w GJJ and WT has gained would be enough to justify it. The
press alone would probably be worth it. No telling what sort of videotape
deal might have been worked out b/w Art and Barry, given that they were
already willing to do part of this deal behind one person's back. Why not
two? Can't you ever see anything besides what is on the surface?
>> He has given
>>him many chances to resolve this issue, including this last one which
>>their side originated.
>
>Wait a second. You said that a guy named Barry initiated this! You've not
>said anything to suggest that you spoke directly to Rorion or somehow
>confirmed that he initiated this, if it is indeed true. Maybe Barry was
>trying to get Boztepe interested first before he took his idea to Rorion.
>
Doesn't matter. This wasn't initiated by our side, but we agreed to it.
To paraphrase you, if Rorion was "really interested in fighting", or having
his brother fight, then it would've happened. Rorion is the one who fell
through on this one, whether or not he originated it or brought in.
Is this your inconsistency? I would guess, by profession, that you aren't an
engineer.
>>I don't think he will fight now unless they
>>come walking into some place where he is and say they are there to
>>fight. No money, no referees, no bull. To me, it looks like the two men
>>are on totally different wavelengths and neither can understand the
>>other. Sifu Emin Boztepe lives in a world where personal and family
>>honor are something he would fight to the death for, and he feels
>>gravely insulted and dishonored by Rorion Gracie. Rorion seems to
>>live in a world that revolves around money, and honor is only a word
>>for advertisements and children. And, apparently, never the twain
>>shall meet.
>
>You say the words Boztepe and honor as if they're synonymous when in fact
>they're contradictions.
You've never met the man, only had second hand accounts of his actions, and
none of those that weren't alread biased against him. Your use of "in fact"
is "in fact" then quite the opposite. I've met him, and would say he's
probably one of the most honorable men I know, though his kind would best
fit in another era, when honor and integrity, and not bank accounts, were
the most important thing one could possess.
Until you actually meet someone, then anything you say about them is tatamount
to speaking out of your ass.
> If Boztepe were truky honorable, then he would have
>stuck by his brazen challenge.
He has tried to, and as I said earlier in the winter, this isn't over yet
(unfairly, I knew a bit about this incident then). Sorry, but it is a true
now as it was then. Just because you think nothing is going on doesn't mean
there is nothing going on. This latest bit should show that. Sorry to have to
wake you up. It appears the only one left out in the cold is you.
This whole thing is a long way from being over. Mark my words.
Mike
Michael Peter
>In article <4c0eaa$j...@rznews.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>,
>Mike Peter wrote:
>>> Yes, he tends to be arrogant. But, as the saying
>>>goes, it ain't bragging if you can do it.
>
>
>I would tend to use the phrase "self-assured" rather than arrogant. I
>think Si-Pak Emin has a very clear view of his strengths and limitations.
>He has a very strong self-image, but it seems to be an accurate one.
>
Maybe arrogant wasn't the best word to use (I tend not to think of it in
the bad connotation that most have, b/c I get called this too ;) I too
believe that self-assured and confident are two descriptions that fit well.
As Mike said, Sifu Emin has an extremely clear picture of who he is. If
you have the opportunity to go to a seminar, don't pass it up.
Mike
Michael E. Adams
>In article <4cbtl3$5...@fu-berlin.de>, das...@earthlink.net says...
>>
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>I have a hard time believeing that Art was trying to arrange a fight outside
>>of the UFC, which is his bread and butter, but anyway....
>
Gee, for not even knowing who I am he sure sent a message to me fast. I read
this post at about 8AM CST on Wednesday morning. At approximately 10AM CST
on Wednesday morning I received a call from Barry Meyer from California (where
he has apparently moved since October). Must have been 7AM in California, so
I guess he really wanted to talk to me....
"Hi Mike, how were your holidays? Say...what's going on on the Internet?
Art Davie called me..." is about how the conversation went.
Art seems to have remembered the conversation quite well, but not to have
been too happy with it being discussed publicly. I told Barry that I was
just rather tired of hearing Sifu Emin Boztepe publicly insulted and accused
of trying to duck out of fighting Royce. "We both know that's not true,"
I told Barry. "Absolutely," Barry responded.
>is and has [sic]
>been involved in trying to arrange a fight between Boztepe and a Graice since
>Boztepe's challenge. He knows Barry Meyer and side that Barry is a big fan
>of MA. Many people call him asking to set up a fight with Royce and he just
>gives them Rorion's number saying that he (Art) doeesn't represent the
>Grracies. WOW dissolved after UFC 5 and Art hasn't been in contact with the
>Gracies since aobut that time. Also Art said that he is heavily involved
>with the UFC and wouldn't involve himself in setting up aprivate fight.
>
>It sounds to me like this was something this guy Barry was trying to put
>together on his own.
As I said in my original post...and my other followup...and am now saying
here. Art was apparently quite concerned that SEG would think he's out
trying to promote Gracie fights outside the UFC. I must still be in a
Christmas mood, because I told Barry I'd post this:
Art and Barry both told me that Art Davie was not personally involved in
arranging this fight, that he was simply a friend of Barry's helping him
out by talking to me. I have no way of knowing if that is true or not and
really don't care, so I'm quite willing (at least currently) to take them
at their word.
And in case anyone is wondering - No, I'm not being threatened with a
lawsuit or anything, I'm just reiterating what I said in my first post
and being a nice guy.
Mike Adams
wing...@mcs.com
Michael Dash
>>>I called Si-Pak Emin. He was also surprised, since he had been convinced
>>>that Rorion and Royce were afraid to fight for real. Si-Pak Emin said
>>>he would fight either Rorion or Royce. He added that it was Rorion
>>>whom he really wanted to fight, so if they wanted Royce to fight then
>>>he still wanted to fight Rorion either immediately after or on another
>>>occasion because he believes that Rorion is responsible for all of the
>>>problems between them.
>>
>>I've asked this before and I'll ask it agina, WHAT PROBLEMS? I still
>>have yet to get a clear answer from teh Boztepe disciples as to what it
>>was Rorion specifically did that makes Boztepe upset with him and not
>>any other Gracie? Is it because Rorion dared to put Royce in the UFC and
>>publicly demonstrate the effectiveness of GJJ, thus making people question
>>the effectiveness of other martial arts including WT? What exactly is
>>Boztepe's problem here? Please be specific.
>
>Mike Peter has a good summary of our perspective on the problem in his
>reply to your post. We've been trying to explain our perspective
>for years and you haven't gotten it yet. There's not much point in
>my repeating what myself and others have said repeatedly and what Mike
>says again in his reply. Go read his post, but I doubt if you will still
>understand. I think we're on totally different wavelengths.
Well, I haven't found this post. Is it a new post or an old one? Do you
mind posting it again? I don't ever recall any of you posting any specifics
as to why Boztepe is mad at Rorion. In fact I recall you sayiing that you
didn't really know that probably something was said in one of the phone
conversations you had. So would mind answering my question?
Michael E. Adams
>In article <4c3sur$n...@Mercury.mcs.com>, wing...@MCS.COM says...
>
><snip>
>
>I have a hard time believeing that Art was trying to arrange a fight outside
>of the UFC, which is his bread and butter, but anyway....
Supposedly Art wasn't trying to arrange the fight. If you will re-read my
words below you will see that I said that Art said he had no personal
involvement. According to him he was just doing a favor for Barry Meyer by
talking to me.
>>I called Si-Pak Emin. He was also surprised, since he had been convinced
>>that Rorion and Royce were afraid to fight for real. Si-Pak Emin said
>>he would fight either Rorion or Royce. He added that it was Rorion
>>whom he really wanted to fight, so if they wanted Royce to fight then
>>he still wanted to fight Rorion either immediately after or on another
>>occasion because he believes that Rorion is responsible for all of the
>>problems between them.
>
>I've asked this before and I'll ask it agina, WHAT PROBLEMS? I still
>have yet to get a clear answer from teh Boztepe disciples as to what it
>was Rorion specifically did that makes Boztepe upset with him and not
>any other Gracie? Is it because Rorion dared to put Royce in the UFC and
>publicly demonstrate the effectiveness of GJJ, thus making people question
>the effectiveness of other martial arts including WT? What exactly is
>Boztepe's problem here? Please be specific.
Mike Peter has a good summary of our perspective on the problem in his
reply to your post. We've been trying to explain our perspective
for years and you haven't gotten it yet. There's not much point in
my repeating what myself and others have said repeatedly and what Mike
says again in his reply. Go read his post, but I doubt if you will still
understand. I think we're on totally different wavelengths.
>>I called Barry back and informed him that Sifu Emin would fight. I
>>told him I would call the school owners next. I told him I was
>>concerned that they might not agree, because of liability (the school
>>owners were in no way associated with Wing Tsun - we were simply
>>renting the school for the seminar). Barry suggested that we not
>>tell them, that we just let it happen as if we didn't know it was
>>going to. I told him I could not do that but that I would call him
>>back after their decision, and that, if they said no, we could do it
>>out on the street or perhaps another nearby location. The idea of
>>"just doing it on the street" seemed to concern Barry. It did me
>>too, since I would expect the Police to be called by someone.
>
>You really expect us to believe that you seriously talked with legitimate
>fight promoters about holding a fight ON THE STREET?
Yes. Like I said, that prospect concerned Barry (and me...and the school
owners). But the offer was made in case Rorion and/or Royce did not
consider the school neutral enough or in case the owners of the school
did not agree. No one thought that was a particularly good idea, but
we made the offer none the less. I also told my wife I would likely
be arrested if things unfolded in that direction, or perhaps even if
the fight took place at all. I viewed the entire thing quite seriously,
and even discussed with her what would happen if a fight between two
people blew up into a fight between a number of people, and the danger
that myself (and anyone else) would be in, legally or physically. This
is not some sporting event we are talking about...as I repeatedly said to
Barry. Such comments made Barry quite uncomfortable.
>>The school owners told me they would have to discuss it and get back
>>with me. Within about 24 hours, they called me back. We had their
>>permission to have the fight there. I called Si-Pak Emin before
>>calling Barry back. He told me he had tried many times to fight
>>them and did not really believe they were serious but would fight
>>them if they show up. "I am fair," he said. He added that he was
>>"not going to talk around this time - they either fight or they
>>don't. They come, they fight, that's it. No contracts, no referees.
>>If they don't come this time that's it. This is their second chance."
>
>Please, spare us Boztepe's rhetoric. If he wanted to really fight them, as
>ou claim, it would have happened already. Nothing, and I mean nothing, has
>stopped Boztepe from showing up at the Acadmey or one of the seminars and
>challenging Rorion, or any other Gracie for that matter.
Well, look at the kind of PR he's been through after he did something
similar once before.
>>I called Barry Meyer. He said that he would call Rorion and tell
>>him that we had a date and a place and that Sifu Emin Boztepe would
>>fight.
>>
>>Barry called back. Rorion said Royce would come and fight Si-Pak
>>Emin - but that Si-Pak Emin had to put up a $100,000! Though I
>>had been waiting for the other shoe to drop, I was taken aback.
>
>It has already been posted that due to the success of Royce in the UFC,
>the Gracie can't possible fight all the people who want to fight them. so
>they limit themselves to fights with money and people with proven fight
>records. I also don't know how much of this story is true. Sorry Mike,
>but there are some inconsistencies here, and you are so deluded with Boztepe
>that you can't ever be objective regarding anything about him.
I have no objection to Royce only fighting for money. But don't then say
that Sifu Emin is dodging the fight when in fact it is a case of Rorion
won't let Royce fight except for money.
And what inconsistencies do you mean?
As for "how much of this story is true," I believe that I've pretty much
established my credibility, at least to those who've been on r.m-a for a
few years now. I suspect even you should know that I'm a straight shooter.
Though we may strongly disagree on interpretations of facts, I think you
know that I have always done my best to present the truth. You just don't
like what I have to say sometimes!
><snip>
>
>>Barry called me. He had Art Davie conferenced in on the call. I told
>>them what Si-Pak Emin had said. Art claimed he was in no way personally
>>involved but said that Barry had an interesting offer for us, that Barry
>>was willing to put up the $50,000 for Si-Pak Emin (note that the price
>>had suddenly dropped from $100,000 to $50,000!) in exchange for the
>>international video rights. Art's definitely silver tongued. He was
>
>This is the part that seems strange to me. Money is one of the issues
>keeping Royce out of the UFC. If 50,000 or 100,000 wasn't enough for Royce
>to stay in the UFC, then why would he consider $50,00 to fight Boztepe? I
>haven't talked to Rorion or Art about this (they're hard to get a hold of)
>but I have a hard time believing this part.
Who knows, perhaps they really do want to fight but just don't have it in
their hearts to do it except for money. Or perhaps they knew that Sifu
Boztepe wouldn't fight if money was involved.
>>From my perspective and from Sifu Emin Boztepe's perspective the issue
>>is finished. Si-Pak Emin is convinced that Rorion is chicken to fight
>>him personally (and that seems to me to be the case).
>
>Please, coming from the biggest baby in the martial arts world, it's pretty
>difficult to give much credence to the master backpeddler calling anyone a
>chicken.
Rorion has repeatedly refused to fight Sifu Emin Boztepe regardless of any
conditions. He would only be willing to let his little brother fight his
fight for him, and only for his profit.
>> He has given
>>him many chances to resolve this issue, including this last one which
>>their side originated.
>
>Wait a second. You said that a guy named Barry initiated this! You've not
>said anything to suggest that you spoke directly to Rorion or somehow
>confirmed that he initiated this, if it is indeed true. Maybe Barry was
>trying to get Boztepe interested first before he took his idea to Rorion.
This is quite possible. However, Barry claimed that he had discussed it with
Rorion and then also with Art Davie, and that Rorion was open to it and Art
thought it was "a good idea." And Barry wanted to conference Rorion in on
one call with me, but I refused unless Sifu Emin Boztepe was also conferenced
in. He then called back the next day with Art Davie conferenced in on the
line. So I think there is strong evidence that he had some buy in on the
idea before talking to us.
At the very least, this is evidence that Sifu Emin Boztepe was ready and
willing to fight Royce and/or Rorion, but that Rorion refused to let the
fight happen except for money. So I think you no longer have any ground
to stand on in saying that Sifu Boztepe is dodging a fight with Royce.
>>I don't think he will fight now unless they
>>come walking into some place where he is and say they are there to
>>fight. No money, no referees, no bull. To me, it looks like the two men
>>are on totally different wavelengths and neither can understand the
>>other. Sifu Emin Boztepe lives in a world where personal and family
>>honor are something he would fight to the death for, and he feels
>>gravely insulted and dishonored by Rorion Gracie. Rorion seems to
>>live in a world that revolves around money, and honor is only a word
>>for advertisements and children. And, apparently, never the twain
>>shall meet.
>
>You say the words Boztepe and honor as if they're synonymous when in fact
>they're contradictions. If Boztepe were truky honorable, then he would have
>stuck by his brazen challenge. Boztepe has publicly proven that he is not a
>man of his word and therfore dishonorable.
Here we go again in our continuing disagreement on the meaning of Sifu
Emin Boztepe's original challenge letter. You still don't seem to understand
that from the very beginning Sifu Boztepe objected to the fight being done
for profit. Rorion and Royce never agreed to fight him with the winner's
profits being donated to charity, they only said that he could donate his
winnings if he won and chose to do that. It's basically still the same
scenario Art Davie proposed here - to let Sifu Boztepe fight for honor and
Royce fight for profit. Nothing has changed. Sifu Boztepe has said since
he was originally invited to participate in the UFC that he did not believe
it was right for him to fight for sport, for money, and for others'
entertainment. That stand has never changed. He is a man of his word, and
has stood honorably behind his words even when publicly insulted and
chastized for doing so.
>He may have snowed you into
>thinking that Rorion/Royce, and the rest of the world is afraid to fight him.
>I like the way you conveniently forget that Royce has put his neck on the
>line with many guys in the UFC that would have liked nohting more than beat a
>Gracie.
Quite the contrary. I don't believe I have ever said a bad word about Royce's
fighting skills. Certainly Royce has shown himself to be a tough fighter.
I have said that Rorion refuses to fight Sifu Emin Boztepe. That is a
pretty well established fact, even acknowledged by Art Davie in one of the
quotes in my post.
>I think Royce has pretty well proven his willingness to fight.
>Boztepe is just the "circus clown" of the martial arts world, and, thanks to
>your post, you have revived a thread that will give us much pleasure in
>making fun of him.
I doubt that much could stop you from making fun of him regardless of
whether I post anything or not, Mike. You seem to enjoy publicly insulting
people. I believe that intelligent people can read our posts and make their
own decisions.
Mike Adams
wing...@mcs.net
Michael Dash
>
>In article <4cbuse$5...@fu-berlin.de>, Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>>>I have a hard time believeing that Art was trying to arrange a fight outside
>>>of the UFC, which is his bread and butter, but anyway....
>>
>>I talked to Art Davie and he said he has no idea who Mike Adams
>
>
>Gee, for not even knowing who I am he sure sent a message to me fast. I read
>this post at about 8AM CST on Wednesday morning. At approximately 10AM CST
>on Wednesday morning I received a call from Barry Meyer from California (where
>he has apparently moved since October). Must have been 7AM in California, so
>I guess he really wanted to talk to me....
>
>"Hi Mike, how were your holidays? Say...what's going on on the Internet?
>Art Davie called me..." is about how the conversation went.
So Barry called you? No one said that Barry didn't talk to you. Hell, Art may
have talked to you, he just doesn't knwo what you referring to in your post.
>Art seems to have remembered the conversation quite well, but not to have
>been too happy with it being discussed publicly. I told Barry that I was
>just rather tired of hearing Sifu Emin Boztepe publicly insulted and accused
>of trying to duck out of fighting Royce. "We both know that's not true,"
>I told Barry. "Absolutely," Barry responded.
Of course Barry's going to say this. He's trying to get you to help him set up
a fight that he could potentially make money on.
>>is and has [sic]
>>been involved in trying to arrange a fight between Boztepe and a Graice since
>>Boztepe's challenge. He knows Barry Meyer and side that Barry is a big fan
>>of MA. Many people call him asking to set up a fight with Royce and he just
>>gives them Rorion's number saying that he (Art) doeesn't represent the
>>Grracies. WOW dissolved after UFC 5 and Art hasn't been in contact with the
>>Gracies since aobut that time. Also Art said that he is heavily involved
>>with the UFC and wouldn't involve himself in setting up aprivate fight.
>>
>>It sounds to me like this was something this guy Barry was trying to put
>>together on his own.
>
>As I said in my original post...and my other followup...and am now saying
>here. Art was apparently quite concerned that SEG would think he's out
>trying to promote Gracie fights outside the UFC. I must still be in a
>Christmas mood, because I told Barry I'd post this:
>
>Art and Barry both told me that Art Davie was not personally involved in
>arranging this fight, that he was simply a friend of Barry's helping him
>out by talking to me. I have no way of knowing if that is true or not and
>really don't care, so I'm quite willing (at least currently) to take them
>at their word.
Believe me, Art has never represented the Gracies, especially now. If
you believe what they told you, then why would you say in your post that
this fight was being set up by "Rorion's people". You clearly implied
that Rorion was involved here. Your post made it sound like Rorion
intitiated contact, then backed out. IN fact, that was the main thrust
of your post. Obvioulsy, anyone who has heard of the Boztepe/Gracie fued
can call you and try to arrange a fight between the two. Does that mean
that Rorion's behind it?
Michael Peter
>In article <4cigk2$2...@Mars.mcs.com>, wing...@MCS.COM says...
>>
>>In article <4cbuse$5...@fu-berlin.de>, Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>>>I have a hard time believeing that Art was trying to arrange a fight outside
>>>>of the UFC, which is his bread and butter, but anyway....
>>>
>>>I talked to Art Davie and he said he has no idea who Mike Adams
>>
>>
>>Gee, for not even knowing who I am he sure sent a message to me fast. I read
>>this post at about 8AM CST on Wednesday morning. At approximately 10AM CST
>>on Wednesday morning I received a call from Barry Meyer from California (where
>>he has apparently moved since October). Must have been 7AM in California, so
>>I guess he really wanted to talk to me....
>>
>>"Hi Mike, how were your holidays? Say...what's going on on the Internet?
>>Art Davie called me..." is about how the conversation went.
>
>So Barry called you? No one said that Barry didn't talk to you. Hell, Art may
>have talked to you, he just doesn't knwo what you referring to in your post.
>
No, you specifically wrote that Art said he had no idea who Mike Adams is.
So you want to change the story now that new information is coming out? I'd
say Art is trying to cover his ass.
>>As I said in my original post...and my other followup...and am now saying
>>here. Art was apparently quite concerned that SEG would think he's out
>>trying to promote Gracie fights outside the UFC. I must still be in a
>>Christmas mood, because I told Barry I'd post this:
>>
>>Art and Barry both told me that Art Davie was not personally involved in
>>arranging this fight, that he was simply a friend of Barry's helping him
>>out by talking to me. I have no way of knowing if that is true or not and
>>really don't care, so I'm quite willing (at least currently) to take them
>>at their word.
>
>Believe me, Art has never represented the Gracies, especially now.
That wasn't the contention here. You said Art had no idea what was going on.
It appears that not only did he know _exactly_ what was going on, he's trying
to "clarify" his position so he doesn't get in trouble with SEG.
>If
>you believe what they told you, then why would you say in your post that
>this fight was being set up by "Rorion's people". You clearly implied
>that Rorion was involved here.
At some point Rorion must have been contacted to try and set it up. Otherwise
you are implying that Art was making up that side of things.
>Your post made it sound like Rorion
>intitiated contact, then backed out. IN fact, that was the main thrust
>of your post.
In fact, it sounded like nothing of the kind. For those of us who can read, it
sounded like an outside promoter tried to set up the fight, got Art involved,
contacted both sides, one side agreed but the other side fell through. But
of course, you can see what you want to see.
To make it clearer: I believe the point being made wasn't who was behind it
(I don't believe that really matters), but who fell through.
Mike
steve vivian
>
>
> As I said in my original post...and my other followup...and am now saying
> here. Art was apparently quite concerned that SEG would think he's out
> trying to promote Gracie fights outside the UFC. I must still be in a
> Christmas mood, because I told Barry I'd post this:
>
> Art and Barry both told me that Art Davie was not personally involved in
> arranging this fight, that he was simply a friend of Barry's helping him
> out by talking to me. I have no way of knowing if that is true or not and
> really don't care, so I'm quite willing (at least currently) to take them
> at their word.
>
> lawsuit or anything, I'm just reiterating what I said in my first post
> and being a nice guy.
>
> Mike Adams
> wing...@mcs.com
Hmmm....well, since Mike Adams is (aside from Emin Boztepe) the only
person mentioned in this thread that I actually *know* (i.e., have met
and trained with), I'm compelled to assure interested readers that Mike
Adams is *not* a b.s. artist, and his word *is* good. In short, if Mike
says it happened, I believe him.
cheers,
steve
Pete R.
>I have no objection to Royce only fighting for money. But don't then say
>that Sifu Emin is dodging the fight when in fact it is a case of Rorion
>won't let Royce fight except for money.
It's impossible for money not to be involved. Either someone owns the rights
to the video of the fight and can sell it for profit, or based on the results
the recruiting of students to one art is impacted. Boztepe's insistence
that Rorion wronged him somehow and that therefore he deserves a private
match with Rorion which the world will ignore is a *complete waste of time*.
It's a fantasy that simply cannot occur. Furthermore there can't be a fight
with any Gracie without major consequences, some of which will be financial.
Boztepe needs to drop this fantasy and get a realistic picture of his
options, rather than diddling along in a virtually unwinnable PR war. His
only realistic choices are to fight on whatever terms are offered in the
future (and if there are any such future terms, you can be sure they didn't
come from Rorion, he has washed his hands of this), or to wash his hands of
the situation as Rorion has, in addition to instructing his students with
Internet accounts, whose well-meaning intentions haven't done him any favors,
to stop responding to random flamebait.
Michael E. Adams
Andy Tenka <te...@purcell.ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:
>I volunteer to lend my garage as the place for the close door fight. It's
>15' X 22', should be large enough.
<snip>
Andy, I realize this was a rhetorical post, but given the last line I
feel somewhat compelled to post something.
A neutral location wasn't the problem. We had a neutral location (a
rented martial arts studio). Both sides were willing to fight there,
but Rorion would only let Royce fight for money. I doubt that Sifu
Emin Boztepe is going to be real eager to spend much time arranging
a fight given the results of the last discussion (he's understandably
rather irate); however, should you by some unexpected chance get Rorion
to agree to these conditions (and no money put up) in writing on his
letterhead, I will forward it on to Sifu Emin Boztepe and notify you
of his response. I'm not going to even bother asking him without written
agreement from Rorion Gracie. Last time was enough for me.
>Both sides must not bring any weapon to the garage. I will, however
>leave my knives, sword, axe, chainsaw, hammers, toolbox, snow shovel,
>leaf rake,
>and misc pieces of lumbers in the garage.
That should make it interesting!
<snip>
>THERE. PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!!
Okay?
Mike Adams
wing...@mcs.com
Rick Shank
>In article <4cifc8$l...@Mars.mcs.com>, wing...@MCS.COM says...
>
>>that Sifu Emin is dodging the fight when in fact it is a case of Rorion
>>won't let Royce fight except for money.
>
>to the video of the fight and can sell it for profit,
Why does only one person have the rights? Why can't the video be the possession
of both parties? Let me guess. If you win, you plaster the video across the
nation proclaiming your victory. If you lose, you deny the winner the right
to do the same. Sounds like a typical scum lawyer technique.
>or based on the results
>the recruiting of students to one art is impacted. Boztepe's insistence
>that Rorion wronged him somehow and that therefore he deserves a private
>match with Rorion which the world will ignore is a *complete waste of time*.
>It's a fantasy that simply cannot occur.
Hold on there hot dog. Are you saying that if you and I have a disagreement,
I must take it up with your little brother? Maybe I don't feel like beating
up your little brother. My problem is with you. Besides, there is a question
as to who has the better art here. If I kick your butt, you are twice the
rank of your little brother. Incidentally, didn't Mike Adams claim that
Emin was willing to kick both their butts for them (on the way to the airport)?
Something tells me that Sifu Emin isn't expecting it to take too long.
>Furthermore there can't be a fight
>with any Gracie without major consequences, some of which will be financial.
Yea, and possibly to their finances as they have blown their art up as
undefeatable and a defeat would certainly cost them money. We believe ours
is the best but have never been so foolish as to claim undefeatable. We
have a great art with a great history (3 times as long as GJJ). We will
survive. BJJ/GJJ has a great history too. Something tells me they will
survive also. They would just have to take that 'undefeatable' clause out
of their bragging rights and wipe the egg off their face.
>Boztepe needs to drop this fantasy and get a realistic picture of his
>options, rather than diddling along in a virtually unwinnable PR war.
Did you miss something this time Pete. Boztepe did not in anyway initiate
this. There is no claim that Rorion initiated it either. It just came with
Rorion's name on it. I suggest you guys take it up with that promoter.
>His
>only realistic choices are to fight on whatever terms are offered in the
>future (and if there are any such future terms, you can be sure they didn't
>come from Rorion, he has washed his hands of this), or to wash his hands of
>the situation as Rorion has, in addition to instructing his students with
>Internet accounts, whose well-meaning intentions haven't done him any favors,
>to stop responding to random flamebait.
>
Boztepe washed his hands of it long ago. You must have missed the original
post on this. This was started up by some promoter. As far as flambait is
concerned, you are one of the most level headed people from GJJ who discusses
martial arts with us on this newsgroups. Do you really think we are baiting
you guys? Have you ever heard us really slam the Gracies? Have you ever
heard us make claims that GJJ DOES NOT work? I will admit to some ribbing
about rediculous pricing on the part of GJJ and more ribbing on the claims
of 'undefeatable', but we have never gone to the point of calling Rorion,
Royce, Rickson, Helio, etc. cowards, crooks, assholes, etc. We don't even
do this in the privacy of our own class. We believe we have the finest
martial art available today. We believe you people have a very fine martial
art also. We understand and share your concerns and criticisms of McArts.
The only people on this net who are really flamebaiting are coming from
your neighborhood. I think this is a problem associated with money hunger.
You soon forget that although you need customers, you need quality customers.
Attracting flies is easy. Training them to not be a nuissance is much more
difficult.
Rick
--
Disclaimer: Not only are these NOT necessarily the opinions of the great company
I work for - AMD, they may not even be the opinions of this author. If you are
smart, you will take this post as the scribblings of a madman and ignore it.
"I know NUSSING, absolutely nussing." Sgt. Schultz
Michael Dash
>
>In article <4ckq8o$p...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>,
>Andy Tenka <te...@purcell.ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:
>>I volunteer to lend my garage as the place for the close door fight. It's
>>15' X 22', should be large enough.
>
><snip>
>
>
>Andy, I realize this was a rhetorical post, but given the last line I
>feel somewhat compelled to post something.
>
>A neutral location wasn't the problem. We had a neutral location (a
>rented martial arts studio). Both sides were willing to fight there,
>but Rorion would only let Royce fight for money. I doubt that Sifu
>Emin Boztepe is going to be real eager to spend much time arranging
>a fight given the results of the last discussion (he's understandably
>rather irate); however, should you by some unexpected chance get Rorion
>to agree to these conditions (and no money put up) in writing on his
>letterhead, I will forward it on to Sifu Emin Boztepe and notify you
>of his response. I'm not going to even bother asking him without written
>agreement from Rorion Gracie. Last time was enough for me.
There you go again! You're stating as a matter of fact that Rorion
agreed to something, when in other posts you admitted you only talked
to Barry and that they made it clear that no one was representing Rorion.
You actually have no idea whether Rorion was contacted or not. Your
credibilty and reputation as a "straight shooter" are starting to falter.
Michael Dash
>"You tell Rorion that I read all of the articles in the magazines,
>I read all of the advertisements, I read all about the 65 years of
>family honor and the open challenge. I read all of that and I thought,
>'Perhaps a man from Brazil and a man from Turkey are much alike. A
>man from Turkey would fight to the death for the honor of his family.'
>Tell him that I see now that a man from Brazil and a man from Turkey
>are very different!!!"
So now Boztepe is more honorable than Rorion simply because he is
Turkish and Rorion is Brazilian. IF that isn't bigotry, then I don't
know..... It's pretty obvious that Boztepe isn't an intelligent man,
but he's inconsistent as well. If Boztepe was really willing to fight
to the death for honor, it's a moot point whether or not money is
involved.
Boztepe's lack of integrity, courage and intelligence has been fodder
for endless entertainment on this newsgroup. For that we must thank
the WT people. If it weren't for them posting about Boztepe, quoting
his idiotic remarks and exposing him for the buffoon he is, this
newsgroup wouldn't be half as much fun. If I accussed Boztepe of
being a bigot, people wouldn't believe me due to the stories of
Boztepe dealing with Racism in Germany. But Mike Adams posted this
quote from Boztepe, the very proof needed of Boztepe's bigotry.
As far as I'm concerned Boztepe is an embarassment to WT. When the
head of the AWTO is a bigotted, ignorant, backpedalling, dishonorable,
clownish buffoon, then the AWTO is made to look bad.
Michael Dash
das...@earthlink.net
Michael Dash
>In article <4cifc8$l...@Mars.mcs.com>, wing...@MCS.COM says...
>>I have no objection to Royce only fighting for money. But don't then say
>>that Sifu Emin is dodging the fight when in fact it is a case of Rorion
>>won't let Royce fight except for money.
>It's impossible for money not to be involved. Either someone owns the rights
>to the video of the fight and can sell it for profit, or based on the results
>the recruiting of students to one art is impacted. Boztepe's insistence
>that Rorion wronged him somehow and that therefore he deserves a private
>match with Rorion which the world will ignore is a *complete waste of time*.
>It's a fantasy that simply cannot occur. Furthermore there can't be a fight
>with any Gracie without major consequences, some of which will be financial.
>Boztepe needs to drop this fantasy and get a realistic picture of his
>options, rather than diddling along in a virtually unwinnable PR war. His
>only realistic choices are to fight on whatever terms are offered in the
>future (and if there are any such future terms, you can be sure they didn't
>come from Rorion, he has washed his hands of this), or to wash his hands of
>the situation as Rorion has, in addition to instructing his students with
>Internet accounts, whose well-meaning intentions haven't done him any favors,
>to stop responding to random flamebait.
You have to understand something; BOZTEPE DOESN"T REALLY WANT TO
FIGHT! Boztepe is living off an old reputation that he wanted to
rekindle by challengeing the Gracies to a fight he had no intention of
participating in. When he issued his challenge and Gracies were
coming out to give him his asswhippin, he conveniently makes up a
story that it's Rorion he wants to fight, but he's willing to fight
Royce. When he was offered locations for his "anyplace, anytime"
challenge, he balked at the place and the time. To this day, neither
Boztepe or his disciples can give clear concise reasons why Boztepe is
supposedly upset with Rorion. I've asked and asked and this is the
one issue the WT people backpedal...er.....tapdance around.
Boztepe putting on a big act for us, much like a circus clown
desparate to show us his act is as honorable as that of the lion
tamer. I just don't see Boztepe getting his ass in there with lion
tamers.
Boztepe is now a scared little child. Afraid that the only thing he
has going for him is his status in the WT community and that could
blow up in a puff of smoke if he were to actually fight for real
against other martial artists in UFC-like events. When Boztepe talks
about honor he's bullshitting us all. He has no intention of fighting
anyone that he knows would whup his ass, like a Gracie. Royce beat
many in the UFC that would pop Boztepe like an overrip zit such as
Shamrock, Severn, or even Kimo. Boztepe knows, as well as we all do,
that he can't prevail but he makes smoke and hides behind this
fabricated willingness to fight, much like the Elmo challenges of this
newsgroup. At least Elmo is literate.
Michael Dash
das...@earthlink.net
Michael Dash
>In article h...@fu-berlin.de, das...@earthlink.net (Michael Dash) writes:
>>In article <4cigk2$2...@Mars.mcs.com>, wing...@MCS.COM says...
>>>
>>>In article <4cbuse$5...@fu-berlin.de>, Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>>I have a hard time believeing that Art was trying to arrange a fight outside
>>>>>of the UFC, which is his bread and butter, but anyway....
>>>>
>>>>I talked to Art Davie and he said he has no idea who Mike Adams
>>>
>>>
>>>Gee, for not even knowing who I am he sure sent a message to me fast. I read
>>>this post at about 8AM CST on Wednesday morning. At approximately 10AM CST
>>>on Wednesday morning I received a call from Barry Meyer from California (where
>>>he has apparently moved since October). Must have been 7AM in California, so
>>>I guess he really wanted to talk to me....
>>>
>>>"Hi Mike, how were your holidays? Say...what's going on on the Internet?
>>>Art Davie called me..." is about how the conversation went.
>>
>>So Barry called you? No one said that Barry didn't talk to you. Hell, Art may
>>have talked to you, he just doesn't knwo what you referring to in your post.
>>
>No, you specifically wrote that Art said he had no idea who Mike Adams is.
>So you want to change the story now that new information is coming out? I'd
>say Art is trying to cover his ass.
I doubt that Art actually remembers who Mike is. He gets so many
calls, I doubt he would take any special effort to reember Mike.
However, he specifically said he wasn't involved in anyhting involving
Boztepe since his offer to Boztepe to fight Royce in the first
Superfight, which Boztepe wussed out of.
The real issue here is whether or not Art attempted to represent the
Graices or to arrange a fight between Royce and Boztepe outside of the
UFC. Since the UFC is Art's bread and butter I doubt very much he
would do this. Also, he has never represented the Gracie nas would be
very quick to say so. He may have just been humoring this Barry guy.
There was nothing in Mike's story, except for Barry's claim, that
Rorion was even notified. There's no way that Art has been speaking
to Rorion, so I tend to question Barry's credibility.
>>>As I said in my original post...and my other followup...and am now saying
>>>here. Art was apparently quite concerned that SEG would think he's out
>>>trying to promote Gracie fights outside the UFC. I must still be in a
>>>Christmas mood, because I told Barry I'd post this:
>>>
>>>Art and Barry both told me that Art Davie was not personally involved in
>>>arranging this fight, that he was simply a friend of Barry's helping him
>>>out by talking to me. I have no way of knowing if that is true or not and
>>>really don't care, so I'm quite willing (at least currently) to take them
>>>at their word.
>>
>>Believe me, Art has never represented the Gracies, especially now.
>That wasn't the contention here. You said Art had no idea what was going on.
>It appears that not only did he know _exactly_ what was going on, he's trying
>to "clarify" his position so he doesn't get in trouble with SEG.
Hearsay! Art says he doesn't know what Mike is talking about. Since
I didn't hear what actually went on, I can't be certain, but neither
can you. I do know that Art and Rorion aren't speaking, so I'm
certain Art wasn't representing Rorion. I doubt Rorion would really
get involved withthis Barry guy. ROrion like s to be in control. IF
he were really interested in setting something up with Boztepe, I
beleive he would have called him idrectly and not even bothered with
Mike Adams.
>>If
>>you believe what they told you, then why would you say in your post that
>>this fight was being set up by "Rorion's people". You clearly implied
>>that Rorion was involved here.
>At some point Rorion must have been contacted to try and set it up. Otherwise
>you are implying that Art was making up that side of things.
Mike's post said that Barry claimed to have contacted Rorion, not Art!
IN Mike's story Art made no claims, jsut that the proposed fight was
interesting. According to Mike's story, it was Barry claiming he had
spoken to Rorion, not Art.
>>Your post made it sound like Rorion
>>intitiated contact, then backed out. IN fact, that was the main thrust
>>of your post.
>In fact, it sounded like nothing of the kind. For those of us who can read, it
>sounded like an outside promoter tried to set up the fight, got Art involved,
>contacted both sides, one side agreed but the other side fell through. But
>of course, you can see what you want to see.
No, in Mike's post he made a comment to the effect "it was there side"
Meaining the Gracies " that contacted them for this scenario". I know
I'm paraphrasing, but look at Mike's post again.
>To make it clearer: I believe the point being made wasn't who was behind it
>(I don't believe that really matters), but who fell through.
In order for someone to fall through, they have to have been involved.
According to Mike's post, the only one we know for sure that was aware
of this was Boztepe. There was nothing in Mike's post to prove that
Rorion was contacted by anyone except for the word of someone named
Barry. Considering that Rorion thinks of Boztepe as pretty much
nothing, and basically an unknown, he has no real interest in setting
anything up with him. As far as he's concerned Boztepe has his chance
and abcked down. I haven't been able to reach Rorion about his, but
the inconsistentcies in Mike's story convince me that Rorion wasn't
involved. I'm not saying Mike is lying, but he was probably given a
song and dance by this guy Barry, and Mike may have been a little too
quick to believe that Rorion was behind it. According to Mike's own
story there was no direct contact with Rorion and I know that Rorion
and Art haven't spoken since the breakup of W.O.W. I sounds like
Barry was trolling for a money making idea and possibly may have got
Art on the other line so Mike could hear Art say "sounds interesting".
Michael Dash
das...@earthlink.net
Michael Dash
>
>In article <4crrnb$6...@fu-berlin.de>, Pete R. <pe...@Pete.pETE.PETE> wrote:
>>In article <4cifc8$l...@Mars.mcs.com>, wing...@MCS.COM says...
>>
>>>I have no objection to Royce only fighting for money. But don't then say
>>>that Sifu Emin is dodging the fight when in fact it is a case of Rorion
>>>won't let Royce fight except for money.
>>
>>It's impossible for money not to be involved. Either someone owns the rights
>>to the video of the fight and can sell it for profit,
>
>Why does only one person have the rights? Why can't the video be the possession
>of both parties? Let me guess. If you win, you plaster the video across the
>nation proclaiming your victory. If you lose, you deny the winner the right
>to do the same. Sounds like a typical scum lawyer technique.
I believe both parties should have rights to do with the video as they
please, but also the martial arts media should have access to it to report
on it objectively.
>>or based on the results
>>the recruiting of students to one art is impacted. Boztepe's insistence
>>that Rorion wronged him somehow and that therefore he deserves a private
>>match with Rorion which the world will ignore is a *complete waste of time*.
>>It's a fantasy that simply cannot occur.
>
>Hold on there hot dog. Are you saying that if you and I have a disagreement,
>I must take it up with your little brother? Maybe I don't feel like beating
>up your little brother. My problem is with you. Besides, there is a question
>as to who has the better art here. If I kick your butt, you are twice the
>rank of your little brother. Incidentally, didn't Mike Adams claim that
>Emin was willing to kick both their butts for them (on the way to the airport)?
>Something tells me that Sifu Emin isn't expecting it to take too long.
Let's get serious here. This was never about Boztepe and Rorion. Boztepe
doesn't like the fact that GJJ is getting good press as undefeated. This
"Rorion" spin only came about when the opportunity for him to fight was
becoming a reality. As far as Boztepe claiming to be willing to fight both
of them, this is just chest thumping, especially in light of the fact that
he weaseled out of fighting Royce.
>>Furthermore there can't be a fight
>>with any Gracie without major consequences, some of which will be financial.
>
>Yea, and possibly to their finances as they have blown their art up as
>undefeatable and a defeat would certainly cost them money. We believe ours
>is the best but have never been so foolish as to claim undefeatable. We
Technically they claimed GJJ was undefeated not undefeatable. Any one of
the Gracies will tell you that if you hit them good they'll go down.
>have a great art with a great history (3 times as long as GJJ). We will
>survive. BJJ/GJJ has a great history too. Something tells me they will
>survive also. They would just have to take that 'undefeatable' clause out
>of their bragging rights and wipe the egg off their face.
Actually this is false. Wing Tsun can't be any older than it's founder,
Leung Ting, who's still alive. Jiu-Jitsu in general is just as old as Wing
Chun. Your branch, WT prabably isn't any older than than the Gracie/Brazilian
style of Jiu Jitsu. To use the age of original Wing Chun to infer that Wing
Tsun has been around for a long time and then conveniently infer that Jiu-Jitsu
has only been around for as long as the Gracies have been practicing it it
poor logic on your part.
>>Boztepe needs to drop this fantasy and get a realistic picture of his
>>options, rather than diddling along in a virtually unwinnable PR war.
>
>Did you miss something this time Pete. Boztepe did not in anyway initiate
>this. There is no claim that Rorion initiated it either. It just came with
>Rorion's name on it. I suggest you guys take it up with that promoter.
True, but Mike Adams posted it on behalf of Boztepe trying to make a public
statement that he was once agins willing to fight the Gracies.
>>His
>>only realistic choices are to fight on whatever terms are offered in the
>>future (and if there are any such future terms, you can be sure they didn't
>>come from Rorion, he has washed his hands of this), or to wash his hands of
>>the situation as Rorion has, in addition to instructing his students with
>>Internet accounts, whose well-meaning intentions haven't done him any favors,
>>to stop responding to random flamebait.
>>
>
>
>Boztepe washed his hands of it long ago. You must have missed the original
>post on this. This was started up by some promoter. As far as flambait is
>concerned, you are one of the most level headed people from GJJ who discusses
>martial arts with us on this newsgroups. Do you really think we are baiting
>you guys? Have you ever heard us really slam the Gracies? Have you ever
>heard us make claims that GJJ DOES NOT work? I will admit to some ribbing
>about rediculous pricing on the part of GJJ and more ribbing on the claims
>of 'undefeatable', but we have never gone to the point of calling Rorion,
>Royce, Rickson, Helio, etc. cowards, crooks, assholes, etc. We don't even
>do this in the privacy of our own class. We believe we have the finest
>martial art available today. We believe you people have a very fine martial
>art also. We understand and share your concerns and criticisms of McArts.
>The only people on this net who are really flamebaiting are coming from
>your neighborhood. I think this is a problem associated with money hunger.
>You soon forget that although you need customers, you need quality customers.
>Attracting flies is easy. Training them to not be a nuissance is much more
>difficult.
This cracks me up. For me, I haven't made any negative remarks about Wing
Tsun as a fighting system. It may in fact be the best p/k system, I really
don't know. My remarks have limited to Boztepe. It is you guys who
irrationally equate any criticism of Boztepe as a slam against WT and a
personal insult. As far as the flaming on this newsgroup, it has always
been about Boztepe and not about WT vs GJJ as fighting arts. You guys just
have a hard time separating the two. Just because I have no respect for
Boztepe doesn't mean I dilike or disrespect all people who practive WT or
the art itself. I am, however, starting to believe there is a brainwashing
aspect to it, much like Amway does with its participants.
Michael Dash
>
>Michael E. Adams wrote:
>>
>>
>> As I said in my original post...and my other followup...and am now saying
>> here. Art was apparently quite concerned that SEG would think he's out
>> trying to promote Gracie fights outside the UFC. I must still be in a
>> Christmas mood, because I told Barry I'd post this:
>> Art and Barry both told me that Art Davie was not personally involved in
>> arranging this fight, that he was simply a friend of Barry's helping him
>> out by talking to me. I have no way of knowing if that is true or not and
>> really don't care, so I'm quite willing (at least currently) to take them
>> at their word.
More evidence supproting that this thing is reallly all Barry's doing.
>> And in case anyone is wondering - No, I'm not being threatened with a
>> lawsuit or anything, I'm just reiterating what I said in my first post
>> and being a nice guy.
>Hmmm....well, since Mike Adams is (aside from Emin Boztepe) the only
>person mentioned in this thread that I actually *know* (i.e., have met
>and trained with), I'm compelled to assure interested readers that Mike
>Adams is *not* a b.s. artist, and his word *is* good. In short, if Mike
>says it happened, I believe him.
It's not an issue of honesty, but one of bias. Where Boztepe is concerned,
Mike is biased, as many would say I am biased about the Gracies. However,
Mike's disclaimer is contrary to the tone of his original post where he
clearly implies that Rorion initiated this recent contact, and I quote:
"Si-Pak Emin is convinced that Rorion is chicken to fight him personally (and
that seems to me to be the case). He has given him many to resolve this
issue, including this last one which their side originated."
By "their side" Mike is clearly referring to the Gracies, trying to directly
say they were behind this recent contact with Boztepe, when all he really
knows is he spoke to some guy named Barry.
People have their opinions about Boztepe and Rorion, but I can can tell you
this for sure. As far as the Gracie are concerned Boztepe is an
insignificant little nothing. Since Boztepe took the time to publish his
brazen challenge, Rorion tried to accommodate him, even though there
were other people more deserving of a shot at the champ. As far as the
Gracies are concerned, Royce's letter referring to Boztepe as a "circus
clown" summarizes their position on this issue and they have forgotten all
about him. This smells like something Rorion wouldn't have any intereest in,
especially dealing with AArt so soon after the breakup of WOW or going
through bullshit negotiations with Boztepe. Royce was more than willing to
fight Boztepe, and since Royce has already proven his willingness to fight,
it's Boztepe's willingness that's in question here.
David Williams
Michael Dash (das...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: wing...@MCS.COM (Michael E. Adams) wrote:
: >"You tell Rorion that I read all of the articles in the magazines,
: >I read all of the advertisements, I read all about the 65 years of
: >family honor and the open challenge. I read all of that and I thought,
: >'Perhaps a man from Brazil and a man from Turkey are much alike. A
: >man from Turkey would fight to the death for the honor of his family.'
: >Tell him that I see now that a man from Brazil and a man from Turkey
^^^^^ ^^^^^
Mike read it again.
: >are very different!!!"
: So now Boztepe is more honorable than Rorion simply because he is
: Turkish and Rorion is Brazilian. IF that isn't bigotry, then I don't
No read it again. He said "a man" not all men, not brazlians, not turks.
Read the sentence before it, he actually thought there would be kinship.
: know.....
You don't.
: It's pretty obvious that Boztepe isn't an intelligent man,
: but he's inconsistent as well. If Boztepe was really willing to fight
: to the death for honor, it's a moot point whether or not money is
: involved.
: Boztepe's lack of integrity, courage and intelligence has been fodder
: for endless entertainment on this newsgroup. For that we must thank
endless entertainment for you.
: the WT people. If it weren't for them posting about Boztepe, quoting
: his idiotic remarks and exposing him for the buffoon he is, this
: newsgroup wouldn't be half as much fun. If I accussed Boztepe of
: being a bigot, people wouldn't believe me due to the stories of
You just did.
: Boztepe dealing with Racism in Germany. But Mike Adams posted this
: quote from Boztepe, the very proof needed of Boztepe's bigotry.
Not. try again.
: As far as I'm concerned Boztepe is an embarassment to WT. When the
: head of the AWTO is a bigotted, ignorant, backpedalling, dishonorable,
: clownish buffoon, then the AWTO is made to look bad.
Its AEWTO.
: Michael Dash
: das...@earthlink.net
You'd be better spent dealing with the guy who thinks Jon Hess can
kick royce's ass.
Sihing
> head of the AWTO is a bigotted, ignorant, backpedalling, dishonorable,
> clownish buffoon, then the AWTO is made to look bad.
>
> das...@earthlink.netHey!
Sifu Emin is only one person in an Organisation of many thousands
of schools (at least 800 only in Germany).
Dont base a discussion is WT bad or not -> on him only.
We´ve many high-ranked Masters that youll never know
about becouse they doesnt care about publicity or business,
like Sifu Emin and the Gracies.
Also dont Judge emin until u met him personally,as i do it with the
Gracies.
Show us that you are better,stop this useless dicussion now.
There is no need to know who would win in a direct conflict.
Last but not least,excuse my strange english.. im just
a stupid german..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------SIHING - Timo....@hamburg.netsurf.de - EWTO (IWTMAA), DARC (IARU)
Perfection is my target,and i need my whole life to reach it.........
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Flames welcome..
Michael Dash
>> As far as I'm concerned Boztepe is an embarassment to WT. When the
>> head of the AWTO is a bigotted, ignorant, backpedalling, dishonorable,
>> clownish buffoon, then the AWTO is made to look bad.
>>
>> Michael Dash
>> das...@earthlink.netHey!
>Sifu Emin is only one person in an Organisation of many thousands
>of schools (at least 800 only in Germany).
>Dont base a discussion is WT bad or not -> on him only.
>We´ve many high-ranked Masters that youll never know
>about becouse they doesnt care about publicity or business,
>like Sifu Emin and the Gracies.
I've never suggested that anyone should base their opinion on the
effectiveness of Wing Tsun solely on Boztepe. The comments I make
about Boztepe only reflect my opinion of him, not WT.
>Also dont Judge emin until u met him personally,as i do it with the
>Gracies.
A person can ALWAYS be judged by their actions and their words whether
you meet them or not. I never met Hitler, but I think it's safe to
say he's one of the most evil people in the history of mankind. I've
never met Boztepe, but he makes ignorant statements and doesn't stand
by his own challenges. This makes him stupid and dishonorable.
>Show us that you are better,stop this useless dicussion now.
>There is no need to know who would win in a direct conflict.
I think we all already know who would win in a direct conflict. The
discussion is exactly how did Boztepe weasel out of it. No discussion
is ever worthless because only peopl interested in it will
participate. I show I am the better person by prevailing not by
conceding! :)
>Last but not least,excuse my strange english.. im just
>a stupid german..
Your English isn't that bad, actually it's better than Boztepe's.
Michael Dash
>
>Why do I waste my time...
>
>Michael Dash (das...@earthlink.net) wrote:
>: wing...@MCS.COM (Michael E. Adams) wrote:
>
>: >"You tell Rorion that I read all of the articles in the magazines,
>: >I read all of the advertisements, I read all about the 65 years of
>: >family honor and the open challenge. I read all of that and I thought,
>: >'Perhaps a man from Brazil and a man from Turkey are much alike. A
>: >man from Turkey would fight to the death for the honor of his family.'
>: >Tell him that I see now that a man from Brazil and a man from Turkey
> ^^^^^ ^^^^^
>
>Mike read it again.
No, you read it again. He didn't say "Rorion and Emin" different, but
instead made the fact that Rorion is from Brazil and Boztepe from Turkey
an issue regarding their differences. If their ethnicities are irrelevant
then he wouldn't have brought it up. I can see you know w very little
about the subtleties of bigotry and racism.
--
David Williams
: In article <4d4hne$a...@shellx.best.com>, wing...@shellx.best.com says...
: >
: >Why do I waste my time...
: >
: >Michael Dash (das...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: >: wing...@MCS.COM (Michael E. Adams) wrote:
: >
: >: >"You tell Rorion that I read all of the articles in the magazines,
: >: >I read all of the advertisements, I read all about the 65 years of
: >: >family honor and the open challenge. I read all of that and I thought,
: >: >'Perhaps a man from Brazil and a man from Turkey are much alike. A
: >: >man from Turkey would fight to the death for the honor of his family.'
: >: >Tell him that I see now that a man from Brazil and a man from Turkey
: > ^^^^^ ^^^^^
: >
: >Mike read it again.
: No, you read it again. He didn't say "Rorion and Emin" different, but
He said a man. He did not characterize all. It was individual and not
generic. He did NOT say ALL men--he said a man. Its meant to be personal
in the context of seeking to find commonality and not finding it.
Is it an personal insult? Yep. A Racial one? Nope.
In any case your reaching for straws here and would be better spent
engaging in your usual homophobic responses with the guy who says
Jon Hess can kick Royce's ass. I'm sure you have a whole wealth of
vulgarity which you can unleash on that clueless individual. I suppose
all of this is more amusing for you these days than actually TRAINING
at the Gracie Academy.
: instead made the fact that Rorion is from Brazil and Boztepe from Turkey
: an issue regarding their differences. If their ethnicities are irrelevant
: then he wouldn't have brought it up. I can see you know w very little
: about the subtleties of bigotry and racism.
Given I am a minority and have experienced the subtleties and outright
hate from others due to the color of my skin tells me you don't know
SHIT about what you are talking about. Or to put it another way, here
is another topic about which you know even less about than usual. Then
again thats not too astonishing is it.
: --
Michael Dash
>
>Michael Dash (das...@earthlink.net) wrote:
>: In article <4d4hne$a...@shellx.best.com>, wing...@shellx.best.com says...
>: >
>: >Why do I waste my time...
>: >
>: >Michael Dash (das...@earthlink.net) wrote:
>: >: wing...@MCS.COM (Michael E. Adams) wrote:
>: >
>: >: >"You tell Rorion that I read all of the articles in the magazines,
>: >: >I read all of the advertisements, I read all about the 65 years of
>: >: >family honor and the open challenge. I read all of that and I
thought,
>: >: >'Perhaps a man from Brazil and a man from Turkey are much alike. A
>: >: >man from Turkey would fight to the death for the honor of his family.'
>: >: >Tell him that I see now that a man from Brazil and a man from Turkey
>: > ^^^^^ ^^^^^
>: >
>: >Mike read it again.
>
>: No, you read it again. He didn't say "Rorion and Emin" different, but
>
>He said a man. He did not characterize all. It was individual and not
>generic. He did NOT say ALL men--he said a man. Its meant to be personal
>in the context of seeking to find commonality and not finding it.
>
>Is it an personal insult? Yep. A Racial one? Nope.
Then you don't know jack about racial slurs. If the ethnic reference
were meant to be irrelevant, than it wouldn't have been mentioned at all.
Replace "a man from Brazil and a man from Turkey" with "a white man and a
black man" and there would be zero argument that it's a racial slur.
>In any case your reaching for straws here and would be better spent
Reaching for straws my ass! Boztepe put his foot in his mouth and you're
too dumb to see it because it's right in fromt fo your face. Boztepe clearly
implied that he is better than Rorion in some way bacuase Rorion is a "man
from Brazil" while Boztepe is "a man form Turkey".
>vulgarity which you can unleash on that clueless individual. I suppose
>all of this is more amusing for you these days than actually TRAINING
>at the Gracie Academy.
Actually this is quite amusing. Training is fun, but not entertaining like
this can be :)
>: instead made the fact that Rorion is from Brazil and Boztepe from Turkey
>: an issue regarding their differences. If their ethnicities are irrelevant
>: then he wouldn't have brought it up. I can see you know w very little
>: about the subtleties of bigotry and racism.
>
>Given I am a minority and have experienced the subtleties and outright
>hate from others due to the color of my skin tells me you don't know
>SHIT about what you are talking about. Or to put it another way, here
>is another topic about which you know even less about than usual. Then
>again thats not too astonishing is it.
Oh, your ignorance abounds. Now you make assumptions abourt my ethnicity
and my experiences with discrimination. If you were truly familiar with
the subtle ways of discrimination you'd be asking yourself why Boztepe
even mentioned their ethnic differences.
Pete R.
>Why do I waste my time...
Hi David. Why do any of us? :)
>No read it again. He said "a man" not all men, not brazlians, not turks.
I have to disagree, the statement can be considered an ethnic slur no matter
how you accent the words. While I'm sure the *intent* was not to insult all
Brazilians, intent is in the eye of the reader, the statement doesn't
interpret itself. The statement clearly is that Rorion is less concerned
with honor because he is a Brazilian instead of a Turk. A Brazilian would
be justified in taking offense, because the intent behind a written statement
is unknown.
>Read the sentence before it, he actually thought there would be kinship.
And even this statement is not benign. He said "I thought a man from Brazil
and a man from Turkey might have much in common". But why should they
automatically have something in common? Because their cultures are
inherently more honorable than those of other nations? Because they would
experience prejudice at the hands of intolerant, racist peoples like
Americans or Germans? What is the basis for separating Turkey and Brazil
from everyone else, if not to suggest that they are similarly superior in
some facet merely by virtue of ethnicity, and that, apparently, Brazil does
not belong in this elite class after all? Now, I'm not a big fan of
political correctness, and I'm sure Boztepe meant to take a swipe at Rorion
alone, but it's the type of statement that someone who is concerned about
PR would never make. Can you imagine how fast a politician would be forced
to retract such a statement? No big deal, but you really have to consider
your public statements carefully.
Albert C. Song
Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Sihing <timo....@hamburg.netsurf.de> wrote:
>
>>Also dont Judge emin until u met him personally,as i do it with the
>>Gracies.
>
>A person can ALWAYS be judged by their actions and their words whether
>you meet them or not. I never met Hitler, but I think it's safe to
>say he's one of the most evil people in the history of mankind. I've
>never met Boztepe, but he makes ignorant statements and doesn't stand
>by his own challenges. This makes him stupid and dishonorable.
Yes, it is true that a person can ALWAYS be judged, and you have every right
to make a judgement. But, your judgement may not be correct. Have you never
made and ignorant statement? Have you always kept your word? If you haven't
then you too are stupid and dishonorable. Why not keep your judgement to
yourself? I'm sure that if you did, it would cause less strife on this group.
Do you have to go and tell your opinion of this man to everyone
on this newsgroup? Or do you think that we cannot form our own opinions?
>
>>Show us that you are better,stop this useless dicussion now.
>>There is no need to know who would win in a direct conflict.
>
>I think we all already know who would win in a direct conflict. The
>discussion is exactly how did Boztepe weasel out of it. No discussion
>is ever worthless because only peopl interested in it will
>participate. I show I am the better person by prevailing not by
>conceding! :)
>
Hmm... no, we do not know who would win. We can make a guess, but there is
no way we can know unless the conflict actually occurred. And while there
may be no worthless discussion, there are those that would have been better
odd left unsaid. And I would have to disagree with your statement about
being better by prevailing and not conceding. Maybe in your mind you are
the better person, and maybe you think you are prevailing, but I just see a
person who is too proud to let this matter go. One who must insult opinions
of others just because he believes them to be false. Maybe I'm wrong, but
that is the opinion I have received.
Albert C. Song
sh...@hops.cs.jhu.edu
Michael Dash
>
>In article <4dcd5f$h...@argentina.it.earthlink.net>,
>Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>Sihing <timo....@hamburg.netsurf.de> wrote:
>>
>>>Also dont Judge emin until u met him personally,as i do it with the
>>>Gracies.
>>
>>A person can ALWAYS be judged by their actions and their words whether
>>you meet them or not. I never met Hitler, but I think it's safe to
>>say he's one of the most evil people in the history of mankind. I've
>>never met Boztepe, but he makes ignorant statements and doesn't stand
>>by his own challenges. This makes him stupid and dishonorable.
>
>Yes, it is true that a person can ALWAYS be judged, and you have every right
>to make a judgement. But, your judgement may not be correct. Have you never
>made and ignorant statement? Have you always kept your word? If you haven't
>then you too are stupid and dishonorable. Why not keep your judgement to
>yourself? I'm sure that if you did, it would cause less strife on this group.
>Do you have to go and tell your opinion of this man to everyone
>on this newsgroup? Or do you think that we cannot form our own opinions?
Whats up your ass? Bozetepe? I have a news flash for you. THIS IS A
NEWSGROUP WHERE PEOPLE POST THEIR OPINIONS. If you don't like what I have
to say, then don't read my posts. If you disagree with me you can respond.
I'm not simply going to cease posting because you can't deal with it.
>>>Show us that you are better,stop this useless dicussion now.
>>>There is no need to know who would win in a direct conflict.
>>
>>I think we all already know who would win in a direct conflict. The
>>discussion is exactly how did Boztepe weasel out of it. No discussion
>>is ever worthless because only peopl interested in it will
>>participate. I show I am the better person by prevailing not by
>>conceding! :)
>>
>
>Hmm... no, we do not know who would win. We can make a guess, but there is
>no way we can know unless the conflict actually occurred. And while there
>may be no worthless discussion, there are those that would have been better
>odd left unsaid. And I would have to disagree with your statement about
>being better by prevailing and not conceding. Maybe in your mind you are
>the better person, and maybe you think you are prevailing, but I just see a
>person who is too proud to let this matter go. One who must insult opinions
>of others just because he believes them to be false. Maybe I'm wrong, but
>that is the opinion I have received.
You seem to forget something here, a discussion take smore than one person.
You say you want ome to stop posting on this subject, yet you post me urging
me on. Your two faced. Anyone, and I mean anyone, with two matchsticks
worth of intelligence know that if you want a conversation topic to die down
you simply cease talking about it. Going up to someone and telling to not
talk about the subject just furthers the conversation. If you feel this is a
topic not worth discussing, and then join in like you have, that makes you a
hypocrite.
J8830
University of Arizona, I find it very interesting to watch you just rip
the Boztepe camp to shreds on account of their stupidity. Keep it up!
Jeff Meyer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Meyer
J8...@aol.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
Michael Dash
>wing...@shellx.best.com (David Williams) writes:
The problem here is that the Boztepe worshippers are blind when it
comes to their seafood Buttmaster. Obviously, this is one of those
statments that can't be defended, the only intelligent response would
be to apologize and not defend the statement. The "Seafood"
swallowers conveniently forget that fact that if their differences in
ethnicity were the not the point of Boztepe's statement, then these
differences wouldn't have been pointed out. The statement clearly
communicates that Rorion has less of a sens of honor because he is "a
man from Brazil" which is the same as saying Brazilian. Since every
man born in Brazil is "a man from Brazil" then, based on Boztepe's
statement, they must have less of a sense of honor as well. So
Boztepe's statement is sweeping generalization about all Brazilians
and as such is an ethnic slur, making him a bigot in a addition to a
butt thumping bufoon. Swallow that one worshippers!
By the way, I'm curious...what is Boztepe's level of education? I'm
guessing third grade...
Michael Dash
>
>very interesting points. As a poli-sci senior (undergrad) at the
>University of Arizona, I find it very interesting to watch you just rip
>the Boztepe camp to shreds on account of their stupidity. Keep it up!
>Jeff Meyer
Thanks! As long as there's someone spreading lies about how great
Boztepe is, I'll be on the job! ;) Isn't it hysterical how they don't
see the role they play?
--
Kendo Khan
>comes to their seafood Buttmaster. Obviously, this is one of those
>statments that can't be defended, the only intelligent response would
>be to apologize and not defend the statement. The "Seafood"
>swallowers conveniently forget that fact that if their differences in
>ethnicity were the not the point of Boztepe's statement, then these
>differences wouldn't have been pointed out. The statement clearly
>communicates that Rorion has less of a sens of honor because he is "a
>man from Brazil" which is the same as saying Brazilian. Since every
>man born in Brazil is "a man from Brazil" then, based on Boztepe's
>statement, they must have less of a sense of honor as well. So
>Boztepe's statement is sweeping generalization about all Brazilians
>and as such is an ethnic slur, making him a bigot in a addition to a
>butt thumping bufoon. Swallow that one worshippers!
>
>By the way, I'm curious...what is Boztepe's level of education? I'm
>guessing third grade...
own little rectum-roving Gracie handcreamers? They only seem to accept
challenges from those who they know can be easily stomped. How would they
respond to the challenge of someone they don't know, such as myself? They'd
probably just say they're busy for a few years (until they get all the
secrets about the challenger). What a bunch of fudge-packers, like yourself.
Ken
David Williams
: pe...@Pete.pETE.PETE (Pete R.) wrote:
: >wing...@shellx.best.com (David Williams) writes:
: >>Why do I waste my time...
: >Hi David. Why do any of us? :)
: >>No read it again. He said "a man" not all men, not brazlians, not turks.
: >And even this statement is not benign. He said "I thought a man from Brazil
: >and a man from Turkey might have much in common". But why should they
: >automatically have something in common? Because their cultures are
: >inherently more honorable than those of other nations? Because they would
: >experience prejudice at the hands of intolerant, racist peoples like
: >Americans or Germans? What is the basis for separating Turkey and Brazil
Probably your last statement Pete. I'm sure Mike missed the latest report from
Germany where yet more people were BURNED to DEATH by skinheads. Prompting
the leader of the German nation to wonder how he can make these
continued horrific events stop.
Germany is not a nice place to be for emigres from foreign countries. I'd
imagine Brazilians would face the same sort of hate from that neo-nazi
segment of the population as well.
: >political correctness, and I'm sure Boztepe meant to take a swipe at Rorion
: >alone, but it's the type of statement that someone who is concerned about
: >PR would never make. Can you imagine how fast a politician would be forced
I'm sure it WAS a swipe at Rorion alone. But of course I'm not the psychic
that Mike Dash, "knower of the innermost thoughts of Emin Boztepe" is.
: >to retract such a statement? No big deal, but you really have to consider
: >your public statements carefully.
True enough.
: The problem here is that the Boztepe worshippers are blind when it
: comes to their seafood Buttmaster. Obviously, this is one of those
: statments that can't be defended, the only intelligent response would
: be to apologize and not defend the statement. The "Seafood"
: swallowers conveniently forget that fact that if their differences in
: ethnicity were the not the point of Boztepe's statement, then these
: differences wouldn't have been pointed out. The statement clearly
: communicates that Rorion has less of a sens of honor because he is "a
: man from Brazil" which is the same as saying Brazilian. Since every
: man born in Brazil is "a man from Brazil" then, based on Boztepe's
: statement, they must have less of a sense of honor as well. So
: Boztepe's statement is sweeping generalization about all Brazilians
: and as such is an ethnic slur, making him a bigot in a addition to a
: butt thumping bufoon. Swallow that one worshippers!
: By the way, I'm curious...what is Boztepe's level of education? I'm
: guessing third grade...
Given the continued Grammatical errors and obsession with homosexual
sex acts--we can only wonder about about yours as well. As well as
your age and immaturity.
: Michael Dash
: das...@earthlink.net
: ********************************************************************
: *The above statements represent my personal opinion and are not *
: *necessarily the opinion of any other individual or organization. *
: ********************************************************************
One can only hope.
Michael E. Adams
>wing...@shellx.best.com (David Williams) writes:
>
>>No read it again. He said "a man" not all men, not brazlians, not turks.
>
>how you accent the words. While I'm sure the *intent* was not to insult all
>Brazilians, intent is in the eye of the reader, the statement doesn't
>interpret itself. The statement clearly is that Rorion is less concerned
>with honor because he is a Brazilian instead of a Turk. A Brazilian would
>be justified in taking offense, because the intent behind a written statement
>is unknown.
Since I was the one who posted the report of the conversation, let me correct
any misunderstanding there may be. The statement was meant only to refer
to Rorion Gracie. It was intended to be a rather barbed comment.
>>Read the sentence before it, he actually thought there would be kinship.
>
>And even this statement is not benign. He said "I thought a man from Brazil
>and a man from Turkey might have much in common". But why should they
>automatically have something in common? Because their cultures are
>inherently more honorable than those of other nations? Because they would
>experience prejudice at the hands of intolerant, racist peoples like
>Americans or Germans? What is the basis for separating Turkey and Brazil
>from everyone else, if not to suggest that they are similarly superior in
>some facet merely by virtue of ethnicity, and that, apparently, Brazil does
>not belong in this elite class after all? Now, I'm not a big fan of
>political correctness, and I'm sure Boztepe meant to take a swipe at Rorion
>alone <<snip>>
Please re-read my original report of the conversation - you're quoting out
of context. My original post made it quite clear that Sifu Emin Boztepe
said that he expected a commonality after reading all of Rorion's articles
and advertisements with their strong emphasis on the 65-year tradition of
family honor. Yes, Sifu Boztepe meant to take a swipe at Rorion alone.
By the way - when are the Gracies going to change their ad? It still
says: "Royce Gracie is the ULTIMATE FIGHTER(TM). He choked out everyone
he faced in THE ULTIMATE FIGHTING CHAMPIONSHIP(TM). No one lasted five
minutes! Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Kung-Fu, Kickboxing, Wrestling, Judo,
Savate, and Boxing have all tried and NONE has been able to even land a
punch!" It's been quite a while now since at least three statements
within that ad have become false.
Mike Adams
wing...@mcs.com
Michael Dash
>
>In article <4dgsng$k...@fu-berlin.de>, Pete R. <pe...@Pete.pETE.PETE> wrote:
>>wing...@shellx.best.com (David Williams) writes:
>>
>>>No read it again. He said "a man" not all men, not brazlians, not turks.
>>
>>I have to disagree, the statement can be considered an ethnic slur no matter
>>how you accent the words. While I'm sure the *intent* was not to insult all
>>Brazilians, intent is in the eye of the reader, the statement doesn't
>>interpret itself. The statement clearly is that Rorion is less concerned
>>with honor because he is a Brazilian instead of a Turk. A Brazilian would
>>be justified in taking offense, because the intent behind a written statement
>>is unknown.
>
>
>Since I was the one who posted the report of the conversation, let me correct
>any misunderstanding there may be. The statement was meant only to refer
>to Rorion Gracie. It was intended to be a rather barbed comment.
Since you were quoting Boztepe, it's for him to clarify his words, not you.
Also, you miss the point. The statement is a slur against all Brazilians,
whether Boztepe intended it to be or not. If you wanted to take a dig at
someone, and they happen to be black, so you use the "N" word jsut to get
under their skin, thta remark would be offensive for anyone who's black
regardless of your intent.
>By the way - when are the Gracies going to change their ad? It still
>says: "Royce Gracie is the ULTIMATE FIGHTER(TM). He choked out everyone
>he faced in THE ULTIMATE FIGHTING CHAMPIONSHIP(TM). No one lasted five
>minutes! Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Kung-Fu, Kickboxing, Wrestling, Judo,
>Savate, and Boxing have all tried and NONE has been able to even land a
>punch!" It's been quite a while now since at least three statements
>within that ad have become false.
That ad reflects the results of Royce's fights in the first two UFCs,
so technically the ad isn't false. The part about no one lasting five
minutes is OBE (overcome by events) not false, however Royce did fight
and defeat people representing the various styles mentioned in the ad.
I agree it's time to change it (but it's not my decision) but the ad
isn't false, as you put it.
--
Rick Shank
>very interesting points. As a poli-sci senior (undergrad) at the
>University of Arizona, I find it very interesting to watch you just rip
>the Boztepe camp to shreds on account of their stupidity. Keep it up!
>Jeff Meyer
Let's rephrase your statement.
As a 'liar course' senior at a university noted for bragging and not teaching
(I too went to U of A), you find it interesting to watch someone riddle the
internet with lies and slander because you think the opposition (which you
don't even know) is stupid.
I can't wait 'til you gain political office.
David Williams
: In article <4dv84q$f...@shellx.best.com>, wing...@shellx.best.com says...
: >: >And even this statement is not benign. He said "I thought a man from Brazil
: >: >and a man from Turkey might have much in common". But why should they
: >: >automatically have something in common? Because their cultures are
: >: >inherently more honorable than those of other nations? Because they would
: >: >experience prejudice at the hands of intolerant, racist peoples like
: >: >Americans or Germans? What is the basis for separating Turkey and Brazil
: >
: >Probably your last statement Pete. I'm sure Mike missed the latest report from
: >Germany where yet more people were BURNED to DEATH by skinheads. Prompting
: >the leader of the German nation to wonder how he can make these
: >continued horrific events stop.
: >
: >Germany is not a nice place to be for emigres from foreign countries. I'd
: >imagine Brazilians would face the same sort of hate from that neo-nazi
: >segment of the population as well.
: Look, what's going on in Germany has NOTHING to do with this thread.
Yes it does.
: Boztepe made a bigoted statment, period. It doesn't matter whether he meant
: to or not, he did it. If a white man uses the "N" word in a conversation
: about a Black man, it's automatically a racist statement, this is no different.
: Boztepe clearly stated that he was somehow "better" than Rorion simlpy because
: of ther different ethnic backgrounds. That's bigotry.
No and you aren't the arbiter of what is.
: >: >political correctness, and I'm sure Boztepe meant to take a swipe at Rorion
: >: >alone, but it's the type of statement that someone who is concerned about
: >: >PR would never make. Can you imagine how fast a politician would be forced
: >
: >I'm sure it WAS a swipe at Rorion alone. But of course I'm not the psychic
: >that Mike Dash, "knower of the innermost thoughts of Emin Boztepe" is.
: You'd have to be a fool to not be able to see the ethnic slur in Boztepe's
: statement.
To be a fool I'd have to be you...but then I'd be agreeing with you.
: >: >to retract such a statement? No big deal, but you really have to consider
: >: >your public statements carefully.
: >
: >
: >True enough.
: >
: >: The problem here is that the Boztepe worshippers are blind when it
: >: comes to their seafood Buttmaster. Obviously, this is one of those
: >: statments that can't be defended, the only intelligent response would
: >: be to apologize and not defend the statement. The "Seafood"
: >: swallowers conveniently forget that fact that if their differences in
: >: ethnicity were the not the point of Boztepe's statement, then these
: >: differences wouldn't have been pointed out. The statement clearly
: >: communicates that Rorion has less of a sens of honor because he is "a
: >: man from Brazil" which is the same as saying Brazilian. Since every
: >: man born in Brazil is "a man from Brazil" then, based on Boztepe's
: >: statement, they must have less of a sense of honor as well. So
: >: Boztepe's statement is sweeping generalization about all Brazilians
: >: and as such is an ethnic slur, making him a bigot in a addition to a
: >: butt thumping bufoon. Swallow that one worshippers!
: >: By the way, I'm curious...what is Boztepe's level of education? I'm
: >: guessing third grade...
: >
: >Given the continued Grammatical errors and obsession with homosexual
: >sex acts--we can only wonder about about yours as well. As well as
: >your age and immaturity.
: What obsession with homosexual sex acts????? Why are you guys so paranoid
Your constant reference to:
1) Oral Sex between Emin and his students.
2) Constant posts about semen, "swallowers".
3) Your constant mention of "butt thumping" etc.
Or do you just suffer from tourette's syndrome and not really remember
what you spew out here after you post it?
: about homosexuality?? Really! Methinks thou dost protest too much!
Yeah right. YOU are the one ALWAYS posting here making the comments. No
one else. YOU. Why not eliminate them? They make you appear childish
and add no value to your statements--nor would they diminish your
apparent enjoyment of tweaking the Wing Tsun students and instructors
here on the internet (by the way, I'm not affiliated with Leung Ting's
Wing Tsun organization--but I do converse with them on occasion. I respect
there art just as I do GJJ--and I'm more than willing to have
conversations with them and with any of the GJJ folks, like Pete R.)
: As far as grammatical errors, I'm the first one to admit I don't proof
: read my stuff, so words get left out, letters transposed , etc. For the
: most part my point is made, and for what this forum is, it isn't worth
: the time to take proof reading a lot of stuff.
Or to think about it either.
By the way what DO you think this forum is for anyway? Drive by postings?
David
Michael Dash
>>By the way, I'm curious...what is Boztepe's level of education? I'm
>>guessing third grade...
>
>If it were, it'd still be three years beyond yours, Dashy. And what about your
>own little rectum-roving Gracie handcreamers? They only seem to accept
Rectum-roving handcreamers? Hmmmm, never heard that one before. I'll give
you credit for that one, it's original and funny.
>challenges from those who they know can be easily stomped. How would they
>respond to the challenge of someone they don't know, such as myself? They'd
>probably just say they're busy for a few years (until they get all the
>secrets about the challenger). What a bunch of fudge-packers, like yourself.
>
>Ken
Who are you? Eugene Lin in drag??? If you think the Gracies are
afraid of you why don't you just show up at the Academy and prove it.
They usually don't fight little girl, but in your case they may make an
exception! ;)
Albert C. Song
>In article <4dk28p$9...@hops.cs.jhu.edu>, sh...@hops.cs.jhu.edu says...
>>
>>to make a judgement. But, your judgement may not be correct. Have you never
>>made and ignorant statement? Have you always kept your word? If you haven't
>>then you too are stupid and dishonorable. Why not keep your judgement to
>>yourself? I'm sure that if you did, it would cause less strife on this
>>group. Do you have to go and tell your opinion of this man to everyone
>>on this newsgroup? Or do you think that we cannot form our own opinions?
>Whats up your ass? Bozetepe? I have a news flash for you. THIS IS A
>NEWSGROUP WHERE PEOPLE POST THEIR OPINIONS. If you don't like what I have
>to say, then don't read my posts. If you disagree with me you can respond.
>I'm not simply going to cease posting because you can't deal with it.
What's up my ass? Probably some shit and bacteria, but no Bozetepe.
And yes, you are correct, this is a newsgroup. Didn't you see how I
said "on this newsgroup"? So it's not a newsflash to me. And even
though I don't like your opinions, why shouldn't I read your posts?
And as you can see, I have responded. Maybe not in the way you would
like, but oh well. Also, I don't expect you to simply cease posting.
Where did you get that idea? And of course I can deal with you posting.
Why can't I?
>>Hmm... no, we do not know who would win. We can make a guess, but there is
>>no way we can know unless the conflict actually occurred. And while there
>>may be no worthless discussion, there are those that would have been better
>>odd left unsaid. And I would have to disagree with your statement about
>>being better by prevailing and not conceding. Maybe in your mind you are
>>the better person, and maybe you think you are prevailing, but I just see a
>>person who is too proud to let this matter go. One who must insult opinions
>>of others just because he believes them to be false. Maybe I'm wrong, but
>>that is the opinion I have received.
>You seem to forget something here, a discussion take smore than one person.
>You say you want ome to stop posting on this subject, yet you post me urging
> me on. Your two faced. Anyone, and I mean anyone, with two matchsticks
>worth of intelligence know that if you want a conversation topic to die down
>you simply cease talking about it. Going up to someone and telling to not
>talk about the subject just furthers the conversation. If you feel this is a
>topic not worth discussing, and then join in like you have, that makes you a
>hypocrite.
Where do you get the idea that I forgot that a discussion takes more
than one person? I don't see a discussion at all personally. Just
one person stating their opinions and choosing not to acknowledge another
person's opinion respectfully. And nowhere in my post did I say that
I wanted you to stop posting. Maybe you have a guilty conscience.
Also, how am I urging you on? How am I being a hypocrite too? I would
like to hear your views in this matter. Thank you for your time.
>Michael Dash
>das...@earthlink.net
Albert C. Song
sh...@hops.cs.jhu.edu
Albert C. Song
Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <4e3mfv$i...@shellx.best.com>, wing...@shellx.best.com says...
>
>>: What obsession with homosexual sex acts????? Why are you guys so paranoid
>>Your constant reference to:
>>
>>1) Oral Sex between Emin and his students.
>>2) Constant posts about semen, "swallowers".
>>3) Your constant mention of "butt thumping" etc.
>Hey, I'm simply showing Boztep the respect he deserves....none. The WT
>guys on this newsgroup allow themselves to be so submissive to Boztepe
>that the above statements have become appropriate metaphors. Obviously
>the comments bother them, so they overreact and keep using them whenever
>I want entertainment from those guys. Rick Shank going ballistic is
>always good for a laugh.
Just because one person believes a man deserves no respect, does not
mean that it is true. Also, how are homosexual acts appropriate
metaphors? Just because one is submissive does not mean that homosexual
metaphors are appropriate. And how do you come to the conclusions that
the WT guys allow themselves to be submissive to Bozetepe? I can see
that they respect him a lot and are willing to defend him, but submissive?
Also, I think that you wanting to be entertained by the WT guys on this
newsgroup tells us a lot about your character.
Michael Dash
>: What obsession with homosexual sex acts????? Why are you guys so paranoid
>
>Your constant reference to:
>
>1) Oral Sex between Emin and his students.
>2) Constant posts about semen, "swallowers".
>3) Your constant mention of "butt thumping" etc.
Hey, I'm simply showing Boztep the respect he deserves....none. The WT
guys on this newsgroup allow themselves to be so submissive to Boztepe
that the above statements have become appropriate metaphors. Obviously
the comments bother them, so they overreact and keep using them whenever
I want entertainment from those guys. Rick Shank going ballistic is
always good for a laugh.
>Or do you just suffer from tourette's syndrome and not really remember
>what you spew out here after you post it?
I remember what I said, I just disagree that it's homophobic.
>: about homosexuality?? Really! Methinks thou dost protest too much!
>
>Yeah right. YOU are the one ALWAYS posting here making the comments. No
>one else. YOU. Why not eliminate them? They make you appear childish
>and add no value to your statements--nor would they diminish your
They add entertainment value. For every person that posts asling me
to stop, I get about 3 or 4 e-mails telling me how funny it is. Go
figure.
>By the way what DO you think this forum is for anyway? Drive by postings?
For any and all martial arts discussion including discusion of people
in the martial arts world, positive or negative. It certainly isn't a
requirement of this newsgroup to be nice with each and every post.
Like I say, when you respond to my posts, you are perpetuating the
thread, so you're just as repsonsible for keeping the thread alive.
Michael Dash
>
>In article <4dm4l6$p...@fu-berlin.de>, Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>In article <4dk28p$9...@hops.cs.jhu.edu>, sh...@hops.cs.jhu.edu says...
>>>
>>>Yes, it is true that a person can ALWAYS be judged, and you have every right
>>>to make a judgement. But, your judgement may not be correct. Have you never
>>>made and ignorant statement? Have you always kept your word? If you haven't
>>>then you too are stupid and dishonorable. Why not keep your judgement to
>>>yourself? I'm sure that if you did, it would cause less strife on this
>>>group. Do you have to go and tell your opinion of this man to everyone
>>>on this newsgroup? Or do you think that we cannot form our own opinions?
>
>>Whats up your ass? Bozetepe? I have a news flash for you. THIS IS A
>>NEWSGROUP WHERE PEOPLE POST THEIR OPINIONS. If you don't like what I have
>>to say, then don't read my posts. If you disagree with me you can respond.
>>I'm not simply going to cease posting because you can't deal with it.
>
>What's up my ass? Probably some shit and bacteria, but no Bozetepe.
>And yes, you are correct, this is a newsgroup. Didn't you see how I
>said "on this newsgroup"? So it's not a newsflash to me. And even
>though I don't like your opinions, why shouldn't I read your posts?
>And as you can see, I have responded. Maybe not in the way you would
>like, but oh well. Also, I don't expect you to simply cease posting.
>Where did you get that idea? And of course I can deal with you posting.
>Why can't I?
Look above to your original text. You clearly tell me to keep my opinion
to myself, which is contrary to the purpose of a discussion group.
>>>Hmm... no, we do not know who would win. We can make a guess, but there is
>>>no way we can know unless the conflict actually occurred. And while there
>>>may be no worthless discussion, there are those that would have been better
>>>odd left unsaid. And I would have to disagree with your statement about
>>>being better by prevailing and not conceding. Maybe in your mind you are
>>>the better person, and maybe you think you are prevailing, but I just see a
>>>person who is too proud to let this matter go. One who must insult opinions
>>>of others just because he believes them to be false. Maybe I'm wrong, but
>>>that is the opinion I have received.
>
>>You seem to forget something here, a discussion take smore than one person.
>>You say you want ome to stop posting on this subject, yet you post me urging
>> me on. Your two faced. Anyone, and I mean anyone, with two matchsticks
>>worth of intelligence know that if you want a conversation topic to die down
>>you simply cease talking about it. Going up to someone and telling to not
>>talk about the subject just furthers the conversation. If you feel this is a
>>topic not worth discussing, and then join in like you have, that makes you a
>>hypocrite.
>
>Where do you get the idea that I forgot that a discussion takes more
From your own post. Your telling me not to express my opinion that I don't
need to tell my opinion to everyone on this newsgroup.
>than one person? I don't see a discussion at all personally. Just
>one person stating their opinions and choosing not to acknowledge another
>person's opinion respectfully. And nowhere in my post did I say that
>I wanted you to stop posting. Maybe you have a guilty conscience.
>Also, how am I urging you on? How am I being a hypocrite too? I would
>like to hear your views in this matter. Thank you for your time.
I suggest you reread what you wrote:
Why not keep your judgement to
yourself? I'm sure that if you did, it would cause less strife on this
group. Do you have to go and tell your opinion of this man to everyone
on this newsgroup? Or do you think that we cannot form our own opinions?
You're telling me here to stop posting my opinion of Boztepe to this
newsgroup. This is why you're being a hypocrite. EIther that, or you're
not very good at communicating what you really mean.
Joseph Raquepas
Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>By the way, I'm curious...what is Boztepe's level of education? I'm
>guessing third grade...
>
>Michael Dash
>das...@earthlink.net
Hmmm, my guess is that since he completed most of his education in
Germany and he atleast graduated the high school level there, that it
is higher than yours.
Joseph Raquepas
Michael Dash
>
>Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>Thanks! As long as there's someone spreading lies about how great
>>Boztepe is, I'll be on the job! ;) Isn't it hysterical how they don't
>>see the role they play?
>>--
>>Michael Dash
>>das...@earthlink.net
>
>the people say are lies. What makes you come to that conclusion?
>just curious.
If you look at my post you'll see a winking smiley ;). Besides, I've
seen nothing to indidcate Boztepe is great, in fact everything I see
about teh guy suggest otherwise. Despite that, none of the WT guys
have preseted any evidence to prove their claim other than "see him
perform at one of his seminars".
Michael Dash
says...
So are you saying that a German high school education is better than
whatever level of education I'v ehad here in the U.S. or are you saying
that I've had less than a high school education?
Albert C. Song
>
>Thanks! As long as there's someone spreading lies about how great
>Boztepe is, I'll be on the job! ;) Isn't it hysterical how they don't
>see the role they play?
>--
>Michael Dash
>das...@earthlink.net
Hello Mr. Dash. I'm still wondering how you know that the things
the people say are lies. What makes you come to that conclusion?
just curious.
Albert C. Song
sh...@hops.cs.jhu.edu
Rick Shank
>Michael Dash (das...@earthlink.net) wrote:
>
>: As far as grammatical errors, I'm the first one to admit I don't proof
>: read my stuff, so words get left out, letters transposed , etc. For the
>: most part my point is made, and for what this forum is, it isn't worth
>: the time to take proof reading a lot of stuff.
>
It is obvious from your lack of concern as to how your posts appear, that
you value what you have to say just about as much as many of the rest of
us do. If you had something important to say, you would make sure that
the grammar and spelling were sufficient to get across your point. The
only point I see which you consistantly make, is that you are rude and
ignorant and your view is not worth getting across correctly. I also see
a strong fixation to homosexuality and homophobia. Most people who fixate
in these areas, do so due to a problem with latent homosexuality within
themselves. That is too bad for you. Maybe you should just accept this
and get on with your life.
Michael Dash
>Just because one person believes a man deserves no respect, does not
>mean that it is true.
Respect is an individual choice. I'm the only person in the world who
decides whether or not Boztepe desrves my respect. There's no ablsolute.
Just because on person respects and another disrespects him doesn't mean
that someone is wrong. It's an individual decision. SO when I say
Boztepe deserves no respect from me, I am 100% correct.
>Also, how are homosexual acts appropriate
>metaphors? Just because one is submissive does not mean that homosexual
>metaphors are appropriate. And how do you come to the conclusions that
>the WT guys allow themselves to be submissive to Bozetepe?
First, your the one calling them homosexual acts, not me. Plenty of
heterosexuals particpate in oral and anal sex, so I don't consider them
homosexal acts. Second, many sexual acts have what is considered a
dominant part and a submisssive part. The person down on their knees
pleasing their partner is certainly not being dominant. Anyway, if
you don't get the humor then me explaining isn;t going to help.
>I can see
>that they respect him a lot and are willing to defend him, but submissive?
Defending him is one thing. If I say he's a jerk and thye say he isn't,
no problem. However, when Boztepe's actions are indefensible, such as
his attack on William Cheung or how he weaseled out of his own challenge
to the Gracies, and the WT guys are still defending him, then that's blind
loyalty, which is usually a submissive trait.
>Also, I think that you wanting to be entertained by the WT guys on this
>newsgroup tells us a lot about your character.
Oh really? What does it tell you?
Michael Dash
>It is obvious from your lack of concern as to how your posts appear, that
>you value what you have to say just about as much as many of the rest of
>us do. If you had something important to say, you would make sure that
>the grammar and spelling were sufficient to get across your point.
Oh please, now Rick has resorte dto becoming the spelling police,
the lowest lifeform on the Internet. The fact is I DO get my point
accross, which is why you guys are so upset.
>The
>only point I see which you consistantly make, is that you are rude and
>ignorant and your view is not worth getting across correctly. I also see
>a strong fixation to homosexuality and homophobia. Most people who fixate
>in these areas, do so due to a problem with latent homosexuality within
>themselves. That is too bad for you. Maybe you should just accept this
>and get on with your life.
Sorry, but I'm not the one mentioning homosexuality and homophobia.
You guys are the first ones to bring up these topics. I just said
stuff like Seafood Buttmaster, and "swallow this". If you want to
infer homosexuality from that that's your problem. If that makes you
unconfortable, that's you homophobia, not mine. I have no problem with
this and I don't spend a lot of time dwelling on it like you do.
Albert C. Song
Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
[snip]
>
>From your own post. Your telling me not to express my opinion that I don't
>need to tell my opinion to everyone on this newsgroup.
>
[snip]
>I suggest you reread what you wrote:
>
> Why not keep your judgement to
> yourself? I'm sure that if you did, it would cause less strife on this
> group. Do you have to go and tell your opinion of this man to everyone
> on this newsgroup? Or do you think that we cannot form our own opinions?
>
>You're telling me here to stop posting my opinion of Boztepe to this
>newsgroup. This is why you're being a hypocrite. EIther that, or you're
>not very good at communicating what you really mean.
>
>Michael Dash
>das...@earthlink.net
Hello. I would have to agree that I am not very good at communicating
what I mean. Let me try this again. Is it possible for you to state
your opinion about Boztepe in a civil manner instead of posting in such
a way as to cause strife on this group? I know that you can do so when
it does no involve Boztepe, but can you do so when it does? That's
what I am wondering.
Albert C. Song
sh...@hops.cs.jhu.edu
Michael Dash
>>You're telling me here to stop posting my opinion of Boztepe to this
>>newsgroup. This is why you're being a hypocrite. EIther that, or you're
>>not very good at communicating what you really mean.
>>
>>Michael Dash
>>das...@earthlink.net
>
>
>Hello. I would have to agree that I am not very good at communicating
>what I mean. Let me try this again. Is it possible for you to state
>your opinion about Boztepe in a civil manner instead of posting in such
>a way as to cause strife on this group? I know that you can do so when
>it does no involve Boztepe, but can you do so when it does? That's
>what I am wondering.
Of course I can, but I choose not to. I pretty much respond to people
in the same way they act towards me. They wanted to elevate it to
flames and I was more than happy to respond in kind. Even if you do
post in a manner that's "civil", the Boztepe worshippers will overreact
to anyone that dares to doubt Boztepe and his reputation. They want
people to respect their positive opinion without respecting people's
right to have a negative opinion of him. Besides, if they really
wanted to stop this all they have to do is stop. Instead they egg me
on, so I give them what they ask for. What can I say? Boztepe's a
scumbag and there ain't no way to put it nicely.
Let's look at some examples:
1. Boztepe/Cheung fight: Willaim Cheung is the Grandmaster of his
branch of Wing Chun. If soemoene from WT were to challenge him, it
should have Leung Ting and not someone who's level down from both of
them. To ambush him in a seminar that other people have paid to attend
is despicable.
2. Boztepe challenge to the Gracies: Boztepe brazenly challenged
the Gracie family to a no rules fight. He was offered the first
superfight at UFC 5 and a fight at the Torrance Academy, both meeting
the requirements of his challenge. He got the aid of a lawyer to
weasel out of it and he;s been backpedalling ever since.
3. Now we hear news that he chickened out of yet another challenge
from someone in England.
No, I think Boztepe rates some harsh words... ;)
Eric Hansen
>It is obvious from your lack of concern as to how your posts appear, >that you value what you have to say just about as much as man=
y of the >rest of us do. If you had something important to say, you would make >sure that the grammar and spelling were sufficient =
to get across your >point.
And it is obvious that YOU, Rick, have spent far too much time with spell
checkers and paid too little attention in your white trash community
college English comp night course! Rick, should you really be worrying
about someone's typo's or your own failure to master the concept of
SUBJECT pronouns as the SUBJECT of a clause? Or how about your
predilection for wordy and stock phrases such as "as to how"?? Such a
predilection for wordy phrases in attempt to impress the reader with
"scholarly" writing is often an indication of the writer's own humble and
white trash educational background.
ChessMaster
> The title says it all. I'd like to hear what you all think of these
> two people (Emin Boztepe and Leung Ting). Leung Ting is one of at least
> a few people who claim to be the current grandmasters of Wing Chun (also
> spelled Wing Tsun). Emin Boztepe is a student of Leung Ting, I believe.
>
> I'd like to know if Leung Ting has valid lineage, what his attitude
> is (positives and negatives), what you think of his style when compared
> to other families of Wing Chun, etc. I'd also like to hear a little bit
> about Emin Boztepe's attitude, skill, etc.
>
> Thanks,
> - Steve Weigand
> (wei...@marlin.ssnet.com)
>
>
Hello Steve. I think this is some of the info you may be looking
for. Read on. I will try and look for info on Leung Ting. Here it
goes.-------->
Sifu Emin Boztepe
_________________________________________________________________
Martial Arts Background
Emin Boztepe has been studying martial arts since 1976. He has trained
in many styles and holds an impressive martial arts resume:
* Taekwondo - 4 years
* Shotokan - 1 year
* Muay Thai - 4.5 years
* Turkish freestyle wrestling - 8 years
* PMAS Escrima - 10 years
* Western boxing - 6 years
* Wing Tsun - over 14 years
Currently Emin devotes his time in the study and teaching of Wing Tsun
kung fu under the auspices of the International Wing Tsun Martial Arts
Association (IWTMAA). When not training or teaching, Emin works on his
acting career, which has landed him roles in movies filmed in Europe
and the United States.
Early Days
Emin's early days in Germany were not easy owing to his Turkish
heritage. He was constantly the target of racial insults, and more
often than not, verbal abuse would swiftly turn into physical abuse.
Martial arts became something of a necessity. His father urged him to
begin training, thus at age 14 Emin's martial arts career was begun.
His training quickly developed into a passion that he carries to this
day.
True Martial Artist
Due to Emin's preference for effective self defense techniques, he now
views himself as a true martial artist and not a "sportsman". It was
this same preference that originally attracted him to Wing Tsun when
he saw a Wing Tsun demonstration in Germany. This led to him seeking
instruction from Keith Kernspecht, noted European Wing Tsun master and
senior student of Grandmaster Leung Ting. Many years of training in
the Wing Tsun system have now passed for Emin. He is thoroughly
convinced that the self defense techniques and philosophy of Wing Tsun
are second to none.
Embodiment of the Wing Tsun Philosopy
The life of Emin Boztepe is a mirror for the Wing Tsun philosophy as
taught through the IWTMAA: be aggressive in all endeavors while
avoiding conflict whenever possible. When faced with the inevitable
challenge of conflict, meet it head on, finish it quickly, expend as
little energy as possible, and continue on your way. According to Wing
Tsun philosophy, the simplest,easiest, and most effective way is the
best way. "Avoiding a physical conflict that is not truly necessary is
not to be a coward, but to be humble," states Emin.
(Sorry to intervene Steve but maybe this is why Emin will not fight
the Gracies. It is not necessary.....hmmmmm?! I really dunno but if he
did would it not be against Wing Tsun's philosophy? Read on/Continue).
"However, physical
conflicts must be met head on when you are left no other choice such
as causing physical harm to yourself, your loved ones or your family.
This includes my Wing Tsun family which currently spans over 30
countries."
Though Emin has trained in many different martial art disciplines, he
currently bases his self defense techniques solely on Wing Tsun kung
fu. He feels this helps him fulfill his philosophy of ending conflicts
quickly by using effective and simple techniques. These sorts of
techniques are the hallmark of Wing Tsun. Emin confesses, " I only
believe in using techniques that work as quickly as possible and
minimize injury to myself. The Wing Tsun philosophy states : To be
kind to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself. Why be kind and gentle
to someone who is trying to hurt you or your loved ones?"
Training
The Wing Tsun philosophy also advocates realistic training. Emin feels
that this is one of the most important factors in developing effective
self defense techniques. Although Emin believes in other forms of
training such as bag training, weight lifting, jogging, aerobics,
etc., he feels that nothing can take the place of a live partner. This
is best achieved through sparring and Wing Tsun chi sau training. Emin
emphasizes that training should become a regular routine for the
serious martial artist. "You can have the best techniques and the best
instructors, but if you don't practice them regularly and
realistically they will not be useful." Emin exemplifies this himself
by adhering to a strict training schedule of 4 to 6+ hours a day.
Emin Today
Emin has been a professional Wing Tsun instructor throughout Europe
for the past 10 years and has become widely recognized for his self
defense and fighting skills. His seminars are now in great demand both
in Europe and the United States. He is the only instructor of the
European Wing Tsun Organization (EWTO) that has been authorized by his
sifu, Keith Kernspecht, to teach Wing Tsun outside of Germany. Emin is
also the the Chief Instructor for the American Wing Tsun Organization
(AWTO) and the Swedish Wing Tsun Organization (SWTO) and divides
histime between America and Europe. He has trained many elite police
and military personnel, including the Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) of the
FBI and the 4th Force Recon Batallion of the US Marine Corps. Emin
Boztepe is a Fifth Level Practician in Wing Tsun (a Master), and is
the highest ranking person in Wing Tsun in America. He continues to
commit his talents to help spread and develop Wing Tsun in the United
States and abroad.
_________________________________________________________________
This Page Originated from the American Wing Tsun Home Page
_________________________________________________________________
Back to the Santa Barbara Wing Tsun home page.
Feel free to send your comments and suggestions concerning the SBWT home
page to: pa...@piggy.ucsb.edu
I did not have any of his fighting history on hand. If I am able to
post it Steve, I will have no problem in doing so. I guess I would have
to go to one of his seminars because just by reading what little info I
have on him, I am Not Impressed. Since he has such a large following,
either his teachings have something to them or he is a great magician.
Charles K. Thomas
a.k.a.
ChessMaster
And that is all I have to say about that.
Forrest Gump
Sihing
Friends,
in my opinion we schould stop this useless discussion about sifu emin
and concentrate more in more important problems,like our own training
for example.
My way is Wing Tsun and im very glad if everyone else prefer something
else,that makes my chances better. Its just MY way,you may do whatever u
want... u will never hear bad words about your favorite style
from a serious WT artist.
(remember black sheeps does also exist in a World wide wt org. its
natural..)
excuse my bad english... this post came from deutschland
flames welcome,enuff water available
------------------------------------------------------------------------ SIHING - Timo....@hamburg.netsurf.de - EWTO (IWTMAA), DARC (IARU)
Perfection is my target,and i need my whole life to reach it.........
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joshua Thaler
: In article <4e5ssk$4...@fu-berlin.de>,
: Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
: Hello. I would have to agree that I am not very good at communicating
: what I mean. Let me try this again. Is it possible for you to state
: your opinion about Boztepe in a civil manner instead of posting in such
: a way as to cause strife on this group? I know that you can do so when
: it does no involve Boztepe, but can you do so when it does? That's
: what I am wondering.
: Albert C. Song
: sh...@hops.cs.jhu.edu
Hear, hear (but don't turn it down too much as this is all highly
entertaining). Amidst the "seafood buttmasters", "Swallow this", "butt
thumpers", and "Gracie handcreamers" (?) there was something about
Botzepe making a culturally insensitive remark about Rorion. Would anyone
care to fill me in on what this flame war is about anyway?
Eric Han-SAN
>Friends,
>
>in my opinion we schould stop this useless discussion about sifu emin
>and concentrate more in more important problems,like our own training
>for example.
>
>excuse my bad english... this post came from deutschland
>
>flames welcome,enuff water available
Deutschland? Ja, wie geht's, loser!!! Useless discussion?? This is the only reason I
sift through all the other lame messages-to listen wing dung losers like you makes
asses of yourself! We should talk more about training, on the internet??? Huh?? Talk
training with your loser sifu on how to deflect your pussy wing chun punches. You
think you can actually learn techniques or something on this fucking newsgroup?? Oh,
gee, how do I escape from an armbar everyone??? Give me a fucking break!!!! Go
fucking bitch to your loser tkd instructor about arm bars and fuck off!
the wharf rat
Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>The person down on their knees pleasing their partner is certainly not
>being dominant.
Which shows that you know even less about sex than you do do
about fighting.
World of Ozzy
: In article <4e8jlm$8...@fu-berlin.de>,
Now now, Wharf, let's not mock "individualistic" sexual preferences. Some
people like hamsters, other people... well, that goes in the thread about
the girlfriend who needs a licking anyway.
Oz
--
UP THE IRONS! Iron Maiden, Feb 19!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
VANDIT KALIA | OO ZZZZZ ZZZZZ Y Y | http://eniac.seas.
-----------------| O O Z Z Y Y | upenn.edu/~vkalia/
Systems Engg. & | O O Z Z Y | home.html
Strategic Mgmt. | O O Z Z Y |
May 1996 | OO ZZZZZ ZZZZZ Y |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"TRICK OR TREAT, YOU SONOFABITCH" -- Beavis
George Meno
ÆÍÍÍÍ On 01-28-96, Sihing <Timo....@Hamburg.Netsurf.De>Refer#: None
wrote to Re: Emin Boztepe Is A Bigot, In Addition To Being Afraid Of
The Gracie ÍÍÍ͵
Sº My way is Wing Tsun and im very glad if everyone else prefer something
º else,that makes my chances better. Its just MY way,you may do whatever u
º want... u will never hear bad words about your favorite style
º from a serious WT artist.
º (remember black sheeps does also exist in a World wide wt org. its
º natural..)
Sº flames welcome,enuff water available
Well said. WT is a great art with wonderful teachers, fighters and
promoters. Many of the other MA's are not so fortunate.
....////georg...@amega.com...K.Fu& TCC...
... Mess with the best, die like the rest...Hogg
---
Tag-X Pro v1.40:
Robert Puig
Predilection? Wow!! What a cool word! It's so, so, BIG! It would tend to make one
think that the author is (I'll let you say it, you did it so well):
trying to...>impress the reader with
>"scholarly" writing is often an indication of the writer's own humble and
>white trash educational background.
Big words and racial slurs! Is your name Mark Fuhrman or do you always refer to
caucasians as white trash? You are like the rest of the poor, under-educated,
under-trained, under-developed (mentally and martially) low-lives that pass their
time on the net in this fashion. Look, I'll tell you what. You, Pino and Mike Dash
could start some kind of support group. You know, tell each other what drove you to
spend hours slamming Emin Boztepe, Rick or whoever else, when you could be out there
in the dojo/kwoon/dojang learning martial arts. Gee I thought this was a resource
for folks to learn about other arts, meet folks, share experiences and generally up
the standard of martial arts through understanding. Oh well, guess I was wrong.
Jeff Webb (the computer-homeless guy that always posts from Robert's PC)
Robert Puig
>>In article <DLrEu...@txnews.amd.com>, ri...@dvorak.amd.com says...
>>
>>>It is obvious from your lack of concern as to how your posts appear, that
>>>you value what you have to say just about as much as many of the rest of
>>>us do. If you had something important to say, you would make sure that
>>>the grammar and spelling were sufficient to get across your point.
>>
>>Oh please, now Rick has resorte dto becoming the spelling police,
>>the lowest lifeform on the Internet. The fact is I DO get my point
>>accross, which is why you guys are so upset.
Well, pal if you were a little more articulate and could spell words like (across,
resorted, and to) correctly, maybe someone would take you seriously. Maybe then you
could get your point across (sorry you'll understand it better if I spell it
accross). Please don't be intimidated by those who are better educated than
yourself, lots of folks are illiterate and continue to live happy productive lives.
Just make sure you don't "korrekt yur kidz homewurk" or they too might join the
ranks of the inarticulate. By the way, if you have a good copy of MicroSoft Word,
you could run the spell checker before you post anything. Now most of us that
graduated the 9th grade don't have to do that, but we'll cut you some slack. My
condolences for your handicap.
>>>The only point I see which you consistantly make, is that you are rude and
>>>ignorant and your view is not worth getting across correctly. I also see
>>>a strong fixation to homosexuality and homophobia. Most people who fixate
>>>in these areas, do so due to a problem with latent homosexuality within
>>>themselves. That is too bad for you. Maybe you should just accept this
>>>and get on with your life.
>This is absolutely untrue, and anyone shouting this ridiculous cliche'
>from the past is doing NOTHING to promote tolerance of homosexuality.
>Absolutley untrue, completely outdated, and purely conjectural on your
>part. Who wrote this ridiculous post?
>
> Anyway, way to go, Michael.
>
> -PINO
Tolerance of homosexuality? You folks are making it seem that this unfounded
account that Emin is homosexual is some kind of victory. I think maybe you folks
are the ones who are, dare I use a "Dash" of perversion, "gettting off" on this
story. Well if Mike is out there I hope he doesn't have a premature
something-or-other because the story is simply untrue. What was the name of this
magazine that said Emin Boztepe is gay? Was it the National Enquirer?
Jeff Webb (via Robert's computer...yes I'm computer homeless, does that mean I can't
teach WT correctly or can't fight? Think again.)
Rick Shank
Here you have an example of the inescapable mouth lock. It is an age old
technique which is perfected in childhood and generally discarded as one
matures due to the fact it damages the user far more than the defender. As
one gets older and smarter, this technique is replaced with the more viable
practice of wisdom, forethought, and mutual respect for fellow human beings.
Some people never overcome this fixation and psychology has many texts on
how to deal with this fixation and the people suffering from it. It appears
to be incurable as it is a personality disorder. The only hope is for the
victims to learn how to deal with it.
Danna Smith
: In article <4e8jlm$8...@fu-berlin.de>,
: Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
: >The person down on their knees pleasing their partner is certainly not
: >being dominant.
: Which shows that you know even less about sex than you do do
: about fighting.
Way to go warfie!!!!!!
i'm getting sickof all of these put downs on Bozetep. i like the
gracies but mike dash is really putting their name to shame. if he acts
like this, it's obvious that respect wasn't taught properly.
River Rat
Michael Dash
>
>In article <4e8jlm$8...@fu-berlin.de>,
>Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>The person down on their knees pleasing their partner is certainly not
>>being dominant.
>
> Which shows that you know even less about sex than you do do
>about fighting.
Oh, and you're some big expert. What does a short, fat, bald person like
yourself know about it.
Joaquin Enriquez Beltran
> >
> >in my opinion we schould stop this useless discussion about sifu emin
> >and concentrate more in more important problems,like our own training
> >for example.
>
> Deutschland? Ja, wie geht's, loser!!! Useless discussion?? This is the
> only reason I sift through all the other lame messages-to listen wing dung
> losers like you makes asses of yourself! We should talk more about
> training, on the internet??? Huh?? Talk training with your loser sifu on
> how to deflect your pussy wing chun punches. You think you can actually
> learn techniques or something on this fucking newsgroup?? Oh, gee, how do I
> escape from an armbar everyone??? Give me a fucking break!!!! Go fucking
> bitch to your loser tkd instructor about arm bars and fuck off!
Von so einem hör ich immer wieder gerne gut artikulierte und fachlich
kompetente Kritik. Da weiß man doch gleich wer der looser ist.
If your fighting and knowlege is as good as your writing, than you'll
better run away from your enemy, cause in a fight you'll shurely loose.
Please try to bring arguments and use your favorite words with your girl-
or boyfriend. They might have pleasure with this.
Joaquin Enriquez Beltran
Email: conqui...@asco.nev.sub.de
Robert Puig
>: Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>: Hello. I would have to agree that I am not very good at communicating
>: what I mean. Let me try this again. Is it possible for you to state
>: your opinion about Boztepe in a civil manner instead of posting in such
>: a way as to cause strife on this group? I know that you can do so when
>: it does no involve Boztepe, but can you do so when it does? That's
>: what I am wondering.
>
>
>: Albert C. Song
>: sh...@hops.cs.jhu.edu
>
>
> Hear, hear (but don't turn it down too much as this is all highly
>entertaining). Amidst the "seafood buttmasters", "Swallow this", "butt
>thumpers", and "Gracie handcreamers" (?) there was something about
>Botzepe making a culturally insensitive remark about Rorion. Would anyone
>care to fill me in on what this flame war is about anyway?
>
Sifu Emin Boztepe made a comment that he thought a man from Brazil and a man from
Turkey might have alot in common. To my understanding this referred to the high
amounts of respect for the family unit, one's family honor, and the fact that both
Turkey and Brazil are places where folks are generally raised a little tougher than
most folks here in America. These countries don't have all the same human rights
and legal mechanisms which we have here. The same could be said for Singapore where
keying cars leads to a "rattan spanking" from a martial arts expert (I'm not
complaining mind you, it would work wonders here!). The point being that this was
not a racial insult of any type, but rather an observation. The fact that our camp
and the Gracies have had this on-going feud leads to alot of quick second-guessing
and knee jerk reactions. The sad thing you will find on this news-groups is that
there are a few persons who give the Gracies a bad reputation because of the
vulgarity and name-calling which they employ when attacking Emin Boztepe. I think
you will be hard pressed to see any vulgarity of the kind I am describing coming
from any of the WT folks. REAL martial artists are above that.
Michael Dash
>Jeff Webb (the computer-homeless guy that always posts from Robert's PC)
Jeff, you pathetic loser. I want to thank you for stupidly allowing
yourself to become a pawn here. It's fools like you that will help
keep the Boztepe threads alive. By being the asswipe that you naturally
are, you (as well as some of your cohorts) are showing a trend in the
behavior of the Boztepe worshippers that is ridiculously easy to ridicule.
As a junior seafood buttmaster, you may get "reach around" priviliges
from the great seafood buttmaster himself, but your posting skills are
pathetic and leave you and Blowstippy open to immense ridicules. Swallow
that one butt-monkey!
Michael Dash
>
>PINO <PIAN...@UCS.isu.edu> wrote:
>
>>>In article <DLrEu...@txnews.amd.com>, ri...@dvorak.amd.com says...
>>>
>>>>It is obvious from your lack of concern as to how your posts appear, that
>>>>you value what you have to say just about as much as many of the rest of
>>>>us do. If you had something important to say, you would make sure that
>>>>the grammar and spelling were sufficient to get across your point.
>>>
>>>Oh please, now Rick has resorte dto becoming the spelling police,
>>>the lowest lifeform on the Internet. The fact is I DO get my point
>>>accross, which is why you guys are so upset.
>
>Well, pal if you were a little more articulate and could spell words like (acros
>s,
>resorted, and to) correctly, maybe someone would take you seriously. Maybe then
> you
>could get your point across (sorry you'll understand it better if I spell it
>accross). Please don't be intimidated by those who are better educated than
>yourself, lots of folks are illiterate and continue to live happy productive liv
>es.
>Just make sure you don't "korrekt yur kidz homewurk" or they too might join the
>ranks of the inarticulate. By the way, if you have a good copy of MicroSoft Wor
>d,
>you could run the spell checker before you post anything. Now most of us that
>graduated the 9th grade don't have to do that, but we'll cut you some slack. My
>
>condolences for your handicap.
If all you guys can do is point out typos as spelling or grammatical
errors, then go for it. You guys certainly can't counter any of the
points I make about Boztepe so you have to do something, I guess.
Funny, getting criticism from someone who can't figure out when to
hit RETURN.
>>>>The only point I see which you consistantly make, is that you are rude and
>>>>ignorant and your view is not worth getting across correctly. I also see
>>>>a strong fixation to homosexuality and homophobia. Most people who fixate
>>>>in these areas, do so due to a problem with latent homosexuality within
>>>>themselves. That is too bad for you. Maybe you should just accept this
>>>>and get on with your life.
>
>
>>This is absolutely untrue, and anyone shouting this ridiculous cliche'
>>from the past is doing NOTHING to promote tolerance of homosexuality.
>>Absolutley untrue, completely outdated, and purely conjectural on your
>>part. Who wrote this ridiculous post?
>>
>> Anyway, way to go, Michael.
>>
>> -PINO
>Tolerance of homosexuality? You folks are making it seem that this unfounded
>account that Emin is homosexual is some kind of victory. I think maybe you folk
>s
>are the ones who are, dare I use a "Dash" of perversion, "gettting off" on this
>story. Well if Mike is out there I hope he doesn't have a premature
>something-or-other because the story is simply untrue. What was the name of thi
>s
>magazine that said Emin Boztepe is gay? Was it the National Enquirer?
>
>
>Jeff Webb (via Robert's computer...yes I'm computer homeless, does that mean I c
>an't
>teach WT correctly or can't fight? Think again.)
First, I had nothing to do with the post saying that Boztepe was outed.
Second, I never said Boztepe was gay, you guys said it after reading my
posts. I could care less what Boztepe's sexual orientation is, however,
discussion of it if your doing (i.e. the WT people on this group). You
guys are absolutely clueless in figuring out what's worth arguing and
what you should ignore. Some guys posts, as a joke, a thread saying
Boztepe is outed. You guys have participated in this thread so much,
that it quckly went over 20 posts strong and is growing. If you had
ignored it, it would have gone away. Now the title of the thread itself
spreads the rumor that Boztepe is gay. I've said it before and I'll say
it again, with friends like you, Boztpe doesn't need any enemies. By
the way, aren't you that butt-monkey that gets off on reading the bible?
You called Bill Clinton and me "flag burning chumps" then got all teary
eyed when I responded to you. You actually expected us to believe that
you risked your life for your country by entering the Air Force. Well,
you're pathetic. The closest you've probably some to danger was cutting
yourself on your USAF belt buckle. I know, I was in the Air Force. It's
the service you enter so that you don't risk your life (with the exception
of pilots and a few others).
Robert Puig
>
>>
>>in my opinion we schould stop this useless discussion about sifu emin
>>and concentrate more in more important problems,like our own training
>>for example.
>
>>
>>
>Deutschland? Ja, wie geht's, loser!!! Useless discussion?? This is the only reason I
>sift through all the other lame messages-to listen wing dung losers like you makes
>asses of yourself! We should talk more about training, on the internet??? Huh?? Talk
>training with your loser sifu on how to deflect your pussy wing chun punches. You
>think you can actually learn techniques or something on this fucking newsgroup?? Oh,
>gee, how do I escape from an armbar everyone??? Give me a fucking break!!!! Go
>fucking bitch to your loser tkd instructor about arm bars and fuck off!
>
>
Vergessen sie dieser arschloch. Er ist nur ein bloede dumkopf der hat gar kein idee
vom kampfkunst. Seine spiel ist nur feuer zu machen und vom das erreicht er
orgasmus. Freundliche gruessen an alle der WC/WT leute zu dieser computer zeitung.
Hey buddy,
While I find your flaming relatively amusing (considering the source) you should
consider pulling your probiscus out of your rectum and taking a look around. You
are in the minority on this newsgroup. Why not go to alt.sex.loser for your kind of
fun?
Thor Legvold
Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <4e8aqv$g...@news.oscs.montana.edu>, imsg...@math.montana.edu
>says...
>>
>>>guessing third grade...
>>>
>>Germany and he atleast graduated the high school level there, that it
>>is higher than yours.
>
>So are you saying that a German high school education is better than
>whatever level of education I'v ehad here in the U.S. or are you saying
>that I've had less than a high school education?
At the risk of being rude for interpreting what someone else has
written, I beleive he is pointing out that a german "high school"
education (or equivalent) is superior in form and content than
the american one. Since you are posting from USA and seem to
speak american english he assumes you are american and therefore possess
an inferior education, at least at the high school level. If
you posess som college education the german high school degree
may still be superior, but it depends on how many years you have,
from where and in what discipline. Of course, this is all
assuming a student capeable of digesting and understanding the
material in question...
>Michael Dash
>das...@earthlink.net
By the way, I've seen you using some interesting titles for
Mr. Boztepe. Could you explain what a "buttmaster" is? Thanks.
Regards,
--
Thor Legvold | This is the strangest life
NorNeXT User Group leader | I've ever known...
University of Bergen | - Jim Morrison, The Doors
Norway | ed...@edb.uib.no (NeXTmail)
Thor Legvold
Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <4eidq0$m...@pentagon.io.com>, wr...@io.com says...
>> Which shows that you know even less about sex than you do do
>>about fighting.
>
>Oh, and you're some big expert. What does a short, fat, bald person like
>yourself know about it.
Hello again, Mr. Dash.
What does being short, fat or bald have to do with knowledge of sex?
I really don't see the logic in that one, please clarify.
Regards (neither short, fat nor bald),
the wharf rat
Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Oh, and you're some big expert. What does a short, fat, bald person like
>yourself know about it.
About sex? Or fighting?
Michael Dash
>>> Which shows that you know even less about sex than you do do
>>>about fighting.
>>
>>yourself know about it.
>
>What does being short, fat or bald have to do with knowledge of sex?
>I really don't see the logic in that one, please clarify.
>
>Regards (neither short, fat nor bald),
Well, in the U.S., if you're short, fat, or bald, you won't be gettin
no sex, unless you settle for trolls :)
claremont.edu
>At the risk of being rude for interpreting what someone else has
>written, I beleive he is pointing out that a german "high school"
>education (or equivalent) is superior in form and content than
>the american one. Since you are posting from USA and seem to
>speak american english he assumes you are american and therefore possess
>an inferior education, at least at the high school level. If
>you posess som college education the german high school degree
>may still be superior, but it depends on how many years you have,
>from where and in what discipline. Of course, this is all
>assuming a student capeable of digesting and understanding the
>material in question...
HAHAHAHAHA!!!! "THOR"!!!!! That's the funniest thing I've ever heard
from Eurotrash, "THOR"!!!!!!!! Well, "Thor," being that you are so busy
in that competitve Norweigien polytechnical school of yours, I will
enlighten your foolish European mind. And don't tell me I don't know
what I'm talking about, I grew up in Switzerland, went to high school
in America, and I've had an internship in Germany--a real internship, not
some bullshit bank job that German high school grads get when they
graduate! Thor my man, it surprises me to even hear a *loser* from
Norway talk about education,hell, your college isn't the size of my
school's intramural field! But wait, you're right-- in German high
school you learn really advanced things like how to take a derivative and
linear regression, while in American high schools you learn all that real
easy stuff like partial derivatives over curve surfaces, Green's theroem,
Stokes's theroem, and proof of the fundamental theorem of calculus. And
sometimes we derived the axioms of set theory just for the hell of it. In
Germany you probably learn Taylor polynomial's in your PHd program!
German education superior??? Haha!! Where else in the world but Germany
can you major in GEOGRAPHY?? HAHAHA!! Geography??
Your European neighbor,
Eric
Robert Puig
>In article <4e8joq$8...@fu-berlin.de>,
>Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>In article <4e8aqv$g...@news.oscs.montana.edu>, imsg...@math.montana.edu
>>says...
>>>
>>>>By the way, I'm curious...what is Boztepe's level of education? I'm
>>>>guessing third grade...
>>>>
>>>Hmmm, my guess is that since he completed most of his education in
>>>Germany and he atleast graduated the high school level there, that it
>>>is higher than yours.
>>
>>So are you saying that a German high school education is better than
>>whatever level of education I'v ehad here in the U.S. or are you saying
>>that I've had less than a high school education?
>
>written, I beleive he is pointing out that a german "high school"
>education (or equivalent) is superior in form and content than
>the american one. Since you are posting from USA and seem to
>speak american english he assumes you are american and therefore possess
>an inferior education, at least at the high school level. If
>you posess som college education the german high school degree
>may still be superior, but it depends on how many years you have,
>from where and in what discipline. Of course, this is all
>assuming a student capeable of digesting and understanding the
>material in question...
>
>>das...@earthlink.net
>
>By the way, I've seen you using some interesting titles for
>Mr. Boztepe. Could you explain what a "buttmaster" is? Thanks.
>
>Regards,
>
>Thor Legvold | This is the strangest life
>NorNeXT User Group leader | I've ever known...
>University of Bergen | - Jim Morrison, The Doors
>Norway | ed...@edb.uib.no (NeXTmail)
Dear Thor,
I think it was a smart move to ask Mike Dash what "Buttmaster" means. He uses that
term so often, he must be an expert on the subject.
"Break on Through to the other side" my friend,
Best wishes,
Jeff Webb
Efren Diaz
>By the way, I've seen you using some interesting titles for
>Mr. Boztepe. Could you explain what a "buttmaster" is? Thanks.
>
addition to the "thighmaster" for those wonderful looking legs and
butts!! :-)
Efren
Thor Legvold
>ed...@alf.uib.no (Thor Legvold) wrote:
>HAHAHAHAHA!!!! "THOR"!!!!! That's the funniest thing I've ever heard
I'm glad you liked it :-) But, it was not intended to be funny :-(
>from Eurotrash, "THOR"!!!!!!!! Well, "Thor," being that you are so busy
Well, "Eric", we did at least say NO to EU, so we're not 100%
pro europe... I was relating my experiences and tring to
help clarify a point. What is your goal in posting a reply?
(Why quuotes, "Eric"?)
>in that competitve Norweigien polytechnical school of yours, I will
No polytech, just University of Bergen.
>enlighten your foolish European mind. And don't tell me I don't know
I see. For one, you know little about my mind (foolish or
european - I could be an adopted korean (well, the name
does rather give it away...) but I wonder about your civility.
If you have a differeing view than the one I've posted, I
would like to hear it. Insulting me as a person is really
not neccessary as you do not know me and know nothing
whatsoever about me...
>what I'm talking about, I grew up in Switzerland, went to high school
I haven't. I have no problem accepting that people have
different experiences and different views - obviously
your experience is different from mine (yes I attended
schools in both countries also). I was trying to
clarify what I beleived the original poster intended. I
expect he will correct me if I misunderstood.
>in America, and I've had an internship in Germany--a real internship, not
>some bullshit bank job that German high school grads get when they
Congratulations on your internship - wher was it and what did
you do?
>graduate! Thor my man, it surprises me to even hear a *loser* from
>Norway talk about education,hell, your college isn't the size of my
Not "your man", still wondering how/why you make unfounded
and uninformed statements about me...what's the point?
>school's intramural field! But wait, you're right-- in German high
I wasn't aware that the size of a university (or country, or
car, or ego) had any correlation with the quality thereof.
I knew I should of applied to Moskva or Beijing university...
>German education superior??? Haha!! Where else in the world but Germany
>can you major in GEOGRAPHY?? HAHAHA!! Geography??
Well, considering that almost _none_ of the americans I've
talked with knew where norway is (no, it's not specific
to my "small country" - these are the same that don't know
the capitol of germany, rivers of france or mountains of
switzerland - no need to mention other continents...) it
might be an idea to offer a major in geography in the US.
BTW - what's wrong with geography? What makes <insert
your major here> (probably mathematics/programming/etc)
"better" than <insert some other major here>? What's
the point of even making such comparisons...?
>Your European neighbor,
Nice to have neighbors. Oh, congratulations on the
3x medals for ski jumping world championships (well,
the german team did much better than ours - Bredesen
can't seem to find the form he had in the olympics :-(
>Eric
Rick Shank
Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <4eri5a$1...@alf.uib.no>, ed...@alf.uib.no says...
>>
>>Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>In article <4eidq0$m...@pentagon.io.com>, wr...@io.com says...
>>>> Which shows that you know even less about sex than you do do
>>>>about fighting.
>>>
>>>Oh, and you're some big expert. What does a short, fat, bald person like
>>>yourself know about it.
>>
>>Hello again, Mr. Dash.
>>What does being short, fat or bald have to do with knowledge of sex?
>>I really don't see the logic in that one, please clarify.
>>
>>Regards (neither short, fat nor bald),
>
>Well, in the U.S., if you're short, fat, or bald, you won't be gettin
>no sex, unless you settle for trolls :)
>
So this means your woman is short, fat, and bald?
Rick
******@ ツ *************************************
Robert Puig
>>written, I beleive he is pointing out that a german "high school"
>>education (or equivalent) is superior in form and content than
>>the american one. Since you are posting from USA and seem to
>>speak american english he assumes you are american and therefore possess
>>an inferior education, at least at the high school level. If
>>you posess som college education the german high school degree
>>may still be superior, but it depends on how many years you have,
>>from where and in what discipline. Of course, this is all
>>assuming a student capeable of digesting and understanding the
>>material in question...
>
>some bullshit bank job that German high school grads get when they
>Norway talk about education,hell, your college isn't the size of my
>linear regression, while in American high schools you learn all that real
>easy stuff like partial derivatives over curve surfaces, Green's theroem,
>Stokes's theroem, and proof of the fundamental theorem of calculus. And
>sometimes we derived the axioms of set theory just for the hell of it. In
>Germany you probably learn Taylor polynomial's in your PHd program!
>can you major in GEOGRAPHY?? HAHAHA!! Geography??
>
>Eric
>
>
Well, Eric, you've just proven yourself to be a bigot (against Europe) and a jerk.
Thanks for informing all of us about your lack of maturity. I'll be sure to
disregard any threads coming from you.
Jeff (I was also a European neighbor for a while)
George Soros
>Congratulations on your internship - wher was it and what did
>you do?
>Not "your man", still wondering how/why you make unfounded
>and uninformed statements about me...what's the point?
Unfounded? I can read you like the palm of my hand baby!
>Well, considering that almost _none_ of the americans I've
>talked with knew where norway is (no, it's not specific
>to my "small country" - these are the same that don't know
>the capitol of germany, rivers of france or mountains of
>switzerland - no need to mention other continents...) it
>might be an idea to offer a major in geography in the US.
So they should major in Geography?? Why not have them read an Atlas for half an
hour? It'd be a lot easier!
>BTW - what's wrong with geography? What makes <insert
>your major here> (probably mathematics/programming/etc)
>"better" than <insert some other major here>? What's
>the point of even making such comparisons...?
Sorry, but I don't major in any of those!!! Do you know who George Soros is? If
you do, than you might have an idea of what my major is. Why is geography a
pathetic major? Because anyone with half a brain, like Rick Shank, could major in
it in half a day! All you gotta do is open up an atlas, read it all night, and bam!
Quiz me on geography! Don't you get it? What is there to research? What is there
to study besides rote memorization???
You seem like a nice enough guy "Thor," but when you start ripping on America's
education system, try thinking a little before you start typing!
Michael Ozanne
*In article <4eri5a$1...@alf.uib.no>, ed...@alf.uib.no says...
*>
*>In article <4elopa$p...@fu-berlin.de>,
*>Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
*>>In article <4eidq0$m...@pentagon.io.com>, wr...@io.com says...
*>>> Which shows that you know even less about sex than you do do
*>>>about fighting.
*>>
*>>Oh, and you're some big expert. What does a short, fat, bald person like
*>>yourself know about it.
*>
*>Hello again, Mr. Dash.
*>What does being short, fat or bald have to do with knowledge of sex?
*>I really don't see the logic in that one, please clarify.
*>
*>Regards (neither short, fat nor bald),
*
*Well, in the U.S., if you're short, fat, or bald, you won't be gettin
*no sex, unless you settle for trolls :)
Jack Nicholson, Dudley Moore and Michael J Fox seem to be doing OK.
--
Michael Ozanne
Rick Shank
George Soros <so...@hmudd.edu> wrote:
>
>You seem like a nice enough guy "Thor," but when you start ripping on America's
>education system, try thinking a little before you start typing!
>
Not that he doesn't have a case. It has been known for years that when it
comes to primary education, America is one of the worst in the free world.
It is only our colleges which are world class. Most of the foreigners I
went to college with had already had all the material up and including the
second year. They did this work in their high schools.
Rick
Julian Frost
> >can you major in GEOGRAPHY?? HAHAHA!! Geography??
Try: the Good 'Ole US of A.
Julian
--
INET: jmf...@uci.edu - Public Key for Encrypted Mail available.
** Irvine Aikikai (USAF Western Region) Home Page --
** http://eclectic.ss.uci.edu/~jfrost/Aikido/Aikido.html
## The Unofficial SigSauer Home Page --
## http://eclectic.ss.uci.edu/~jfrost/sig/index.html
Thor Legvold
I see. Is this in combination, or does just being short, f.x.,
mean you will not be getting sex? Just wondering, I read
recently that 80% of the american population is overweight,
it must really make for booring sexlife (unless your
statement only regards those who are fat and bald and short
all at once). Oh, the reading wasn't a tabloid .- it
was an official statistic... makes one wonder...
>Michael Dash
>das...@earthlink.net
Thor Legvold
>>Congratulations on your internship - wher was it and what did
>>you do?
>It was this little three letter company in Stuttgart-maybe you've heard of it.
Maybe - but without those 3 letters (well, give me one or two to
start with :-) I don't want to guess blindly...
>>Not "your man", still wondering how/why you make unfounded
>>and uninformed statements about me...what's the point?
>Unfounded? I can read you like the palm of my hand baby!
Unfounded, yes. Not based in fact, nor personal experience.
Not a deduction, more of a generalization, IMO...
It seems to me we have quite different experiences with
the educational systems of us/europe...
>So they should major in Geography?? Why not have them read an Atlas for half an
>hour? It'd be a lot easier!
I agree, it would be a lot easier. However, as a previous
poster pointed out, most americans can't concentrate on
anything for more than 30 seconds (perhaps a bit overdriven,
but look at the society, culture and collective memory
for many supporting facits) My point is that if an
individual wants to major in geography, why not? They
could always study law, medicine, etc but if they _want_
to learn about geography to the point of majoring in it,
whats wrong with that? It's up to them to find out how
they will use it in a job related way, if they choose to.
>Sorry, but I don't major in any of those!!! Do you know who George Soros is? If
I wasn't meaning you personally - just pointing out that
IMO if someone wants to major in gegraphy - let them!
The (admittedly few) geography courses I've had were
much more than memorizing place names, many other fields
were integrated and used not only descriptively but also
dynamically (f.x. geology, plate tektonics, meteorology,
ecosystems, climate zones, etc). Facts or factual
studies (like geography) don't have to be booring, or
less "worth" than others. This is simply MO.
>you do, than you might have an idea of what my major is. Why is geography a
The only Soros I know of is the Soros foundation which
supplies financial aid to eastern european students
seeking exchange programs/ research/etc.
So, who _is_ George Soros?
>pathetic major? Because anyone with half a brain, like Rick Shank, could major in
>it in half a day! All you gotta do is open up an atlas, read it all night, and bam!
>Quiz me on geography! Don't you get it? What is there to research? What is there
>to study besides rote memorization???
This is quite funny! I'm sure that there is more to geography than
simply reading an atlas (see above), but the arguments you use are
many of the same I use to tease many of my friends at teh faculty
of law - the only one not "closed" (i.e. requiring some entrance
exam or like) so anyone can study there (in principle all our
faculties are open, although some "professional" studies have
very strict entrance requirements after taking the "open"
basic courses - medisine, dentistry, psychology, law (but not
closed in practice - anyone can go there), etc), the only one
not requiring any form for scientific research or thinking,
the only one one is allowed to take exams over and over until passed
(fail rate is between 50-80% depending on the level), many
more "interesting" points with their faculty :-) It's the
place where some of the most brilliant and some of those who can't
get in anywhere else meet ;-)
>You seem like a nice enough guy "Thor," but when you start ripping on America's
>education system, try thinking a little before you start typing!
More quotes...why am I being quoted? More conclusions about my
character - I'm glad you think I'm nice, but again I don't
think you can conclude that (or any of your previous remarks)
from what you know about me (i.e. 0...) Again - I was not
"ripping" as you call it - I was providing my experience, that
of one individual. Yours may be (is obviously) different,
I'm sure everyone will be happy to hear many sides of the
subject to get a complete perspective, don't you...?
George Soros
>Not that he doesn't have a case. It has been known
>for years that when it comes to primary education,
>America is one of the worst in the free world.
>It is only our colleges which are world class.
>Most of the foreigners I
>went to college with had already had all
the material up and including the
>second year.
>They did this work in their high schools.
>
>Rick
Haha!! That's funny Rick! More funny shit comes out
of your moronic mouth everyday! There's an excellent
explanation for that "Rick!" At UT Austin - the
education level is at a HIGH SCHOOL level!! America's
is one of the worst in the free world?? Put down
that May '89 Time magazine Rick!! Get with it!!!
Maybe at your pathetic white trash high school you
didn't learn anything, but then again, I'm sure
you didn't learn
anything at UT that I didn't cover in high school!!
You didn't go to high school in Europe,
you aren't from Europe-you don't know shit! I'm from
Europe, I know!! I went to high school in America,
I know!!! Intro math courses in, say German universities,
begin with taking fucking derivatives!! Of course at
UT Austin, that's something you probably learned
senior year after your 12 physics classes covering
algebraic equations. Second year math at my school is
called Matrix algebra-ever hear of that? Europeans
learning Matrix algebra in their
equivalent of high school? BAHAHAHA!!!!
Your good friend Eric
ChessMaster
> In article <4e8joq$8...@fu-berlin.de>,
> Michael Dash <das...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >In article <4e8aqv$g...@news.oscs.montana.edu>, imsg...@math.montana.edu
> >says...
> >>
> >>>By the way, I'm curious...what is Boztepe's level of education? I'm
> >>>guessing third grade...
> >>>
> >>Hmmm, my guess is that since he completed most of his education in
> >>Germany and he atleast graduated the high school level there, that it
> >>is higher than yours.
> >
> >So are you saying that a German high school education is better than
> >whatever level of education I'v ehad here in the U.S. or are you saying
> >that I've had less than a high school education?
>
> At the risk of being rude for interpreting what someone else has
> written, I beleive he is pointing out that a german "high school"
> education (or equivalent) is superior in form and content than
> the american one. Since you are posting from USA and seem to
> speak american english he assumes you are american and therefore possess
> an inferior education, at least at the high school level. If
> you posess som college education the german high school degree
> may still be superior, but it depends on how many years you have,
> from where and in what discipline. Of course, this is all
> assuming a student capeable of digesting and understanding the
> material in question...
>
> >Michael Dash
> >das...@earthlink.net
>
> By the way, I've seen you using some interesting titles for
> Mr. Boztepe. Could you explain what a "buttmaster" is? Thanks.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Thor Legvold | This is the strangest life
> NorNeXT User Group leader | I've ever known...
> University of Bergen | - Jim Morrison, The Doors
> Norway | ed...@edb.uib.no (NeXTmail)
>
>
I don't care if Emin Boztepe has a Doctors Degree/PhD in WingTsun or
was a world known rocket scientist, it seems he still can not quite figure
out a way to beat any of the Gracies. Then again, he is 'smart' enough
to stay away from a realistic fighting situation, such as the UFC.
George Soros
> Maybe - but without those 3 letters (well, give me one or two to
> start with :-) I don't want to guess blindly...
>
> I agree, it would be a lot easier. However, as a previous
> poster pointed out, most americans can't concentrate on
> anything for more than 30 seconds (perhaps a bit overdriven,
> but look at the society, culture and collective memory
> for many supporting facits)
a stereotypical European!!! You give Europe a bad name!!!! (Folks, not
everyone in Europe thinks Americans are a bunch of cultureless,
tv-watching, burger eating sloths) I get sick and tired of speaking to
people who just came back from a trip to America, and all they can do is
complain and compare, and say how great Switzerland/Germany etc.. is
better!! If America is full of idiots, stop buying their products, stop
eating their food, stop watching their films, and stop listening to their
music! Most Americans can't concentrate for more than 30 seconds....
Ha!! What has Norway contributed to the world??? Nice scenery for James
Bond films, that's what!! Norway doesn't create shit, doesn't do shit,
doesn't have shit. That's why imports account for more than 80% of
Norway's aggregate expenditure!!!! What do you have to say "Thor"???
> So, who _is_ George Soros?
Don't know who George Soros is? Well he's a famous living American. If
you don't know who he is, than you are either a white trash Texas boy like
Rick Shank who can't read a newspaper, or--you're a European who know's
little about America and is therefore unqualified to make silly
assumptions like America has poor education system, etc...!!!!
>
> This is quite funny! I'm sure that there is more to geography than
> simply reading an atlas (see above), but the arguments you use are
> many of the same I use to tease many of my friends at teh faculty
> of law - the only one not "closed" (i.e. requiring some entrance
blablabla.... You don't have to explain this to me, do you forget where
I'm from, Thordo??
> More quotes...why am I being quoted? More conclusions about my
> character - I'm glad you think I'm nice, but again I don't
> think you can conclude that (or any of your previous remarks)
> from what you know about me (i.e. 0...) Again - I was not
> "ripping" as you call it - I was providing my experience, that
> of one individual. Yours may be (is obviously) different,
> I'm sure everyone will be happy to hear many sides of the
> subject to get a complete perspective, don't you...?
Now I know exactly who you are!!! I'm from Europe "Thor", do you
forget?? I meet losers like you everyday. "Oh America is full of crime,
people there are lazy and never read, look at their health care system...
etc..." Hey-if you don't like America, just stop consuming American
products, and listening to American ideas!! How far would you get then,
"Thor??" Americans have their share of problems, but it's 10000 times
better than Norway will ever be. I used to think you were an ok guy, but
now I know you're just another Norwegien with an inferiority complex.
car...@glas.apc.org
teaching it. Make sure that you find an instructor that you like, who
teaches well. Also find adequate training facilities and a group that
you enjoy training with. Martial arts should be fun. Try to have a
month trial for example. Another imprtant thing is to not sign up for
schemes that "get you a black belt." Pay for a month or 3 or 6 months
in advance so that you can drop out or pause for some time.
Michael Peter
>ri...@dvorak.amd.com (Rick Shank) wrote:
>>Not that he doesn't have a case. It has been known
>>for years that when it comes to primary education,
>>America is one of the worst in the free world.
>>It is only our colleges which are world class.
>>Most of the foreigners I
>>went to college with had already had all
>the material up and including the
>>second year.
>>They did this work in their high schools.
>>
>>Rick
>
>Haha!! That's funny Rick! More funny shit comes out
>of your moronic mouth everyday! There's an excellent
>explanation for that "Rick!" At UT Austin - the
>education level is at a HIGH SCHOOL level!!
Hey troller-boy, Rick didn't go to UT, he went to school
in Arizona. It's funny you should say anything at all
about one's university experience, given the school
you appear to be attending...
>America's
>is one of the worst in the free world?? Put down
>that May '89 Time magazine Rick!! Get with it!!!
>Maybe at your pathetic white trash high school you
>didn't learn anything, but then again, I'm sure
>you didn't learn
>anything at UT that I didn't cover in high school!!
Yeah right.
>You didn't go to high school in Europe,
> you aren't from Europe-you don't know shit! I'm from
>Europe, I know!! I went to high school in America,
>I know!!!
It's not that you "know", it's that you have an opinion.
There is a difference b/w that and fact. The Europeans
I know did cover a lot of college material in high
school. That may be changing now. But the quality of
our schools is still low. That has more to do with the
students, however.
> Intro math courses in, say German universities,
>begin with taking fucking derivatives!! Of course at
>UT Austin, that's something you probably learned
>senior year after your 12 physics classes covering
>algebraic equations. Second year math at my school is
>called Matrix algebra-ever hear of that?
Why did you start so late w/ matrices?
> Europeans
>learning Matrix algebra in their
>equivalent of high school? BAHAHAHA!!!!
I wouldn't put it past them. Matrix algebra is pretty
easy. My problem was automata theory, but that was a
weed-out class.
Mike
WT
Rick Shank
George Soros <h...@pomona.edu> wrote:
Actually, George Soros didn't write anything. This guy is just afraid to
use his real name because he can't speak without insulting.
>
>Don't know who George Soros is? Well he's a famous living American. If
>you don't know who he is, than you are either a white trash Texas boy like
>Rick Shank who can't read a newspaper, or--you're a European who know's
>little about America and is therefore unqualified to make silly
>assumptions like America has poor education system, etc...!!!!
>>
Damn. I sure wish I had gone to the high schools you went to. Then I would
know all about everybody like you do. So far you have not made one single
claim about me which is true. Oops. I stand corrected. I am white (not
that that makes any difference, nor does it make you a genius). I just
moved to Texas. Does that make me a Texas boy. I use to live in California
too. Does that make us (you and me) white California trash?
Get a clue guy. Do I have to send you a resume and a personal history so
you can insult me proper? I've considered putting you in a kill file because
you really are useless but you are so ridiculous, I'm actually finding humor
in this. You are really creative (even if you are obnixious).
Rick Shank
George Soros <so...@hmudd.edu> wrote:
>In article <DMFKI...@txnews.amd.com>, ri...@lagrange.amd.com wrote:
>
>> You are a very interesting character. You make Mike Dash
>> look intelligent. Let's see, I said high school in
>> America was second class and Colleges were far better:
>>
>>
>> bypassing the childish insults, you claim:
>> ... our local college is at high school level.
>
>I said YOUR college is at high school level, idiot!!!
>
You said UT was at high school level. That's our local college. And
like usual, you're wrong again. I didn't go there (yet.) By the way,
UT managed to make it on the list of top schools in the country for
engineering. I don't remember seeing Harvey Mudd there. Let me guess,
the reviewers ran into you and Harvey Mudd lost any hope of ranking?
>> You continually miss the point but maybe that's because
>> your reading skills are so much better than ours.
>
>
>I forgot how intelligent you were Rick! Let's see-you think you can
>explain the human body with Algebra and you have so much free time that
>you want to sue someone for calling your gay lover a wussy.
>
Looks like we have another homophobe here. Man without a name (or rather
too scared to post it), meet Mike Dash. Mike Dash, meet your competition.
Which of you two will take their rightful place as the most obnoxious
personality on the net?
>> Yup, wanna try some?
>HAHAHA!!! I said MATRIX algebra!!! Not algebra! Wanna try some??
>HARHAR!! This from Kinetic energy man!! HARHAR Rick!! Let's see what you
>got, algebra boy!
>
Go for it. What kind of problems are you working over on at Harvey Mudd?
Let me guess, you are deriving obnoxious in free space.
>> All the foreign students I went to college with had
>> already had matrix (linear) algebra.
>
>Unfortunately, that is utter bullshit, considering I am from Europe and I
>should know what Europeans learn in high school, shouldn't I?
I would think you should know something. I would also think you would be
more mature by now too.
>(Ignoring
>the fact that in most countries, the concept of "high school" is much
>different than what an uneducated boy like you thinks of it! Matrix
>Algebra, before the age of 18, in Europe??? HARHAR!! Total bullshit
>Rick!!! Maybe if your college pals were 25, I could believe it!
Sorry, mistakes I make, lies I don't. You'll notice I said "all the
foreign students I went to college with". I never claimed they all
took matrix algebra. This was also nearly 20 years ago. My guess is
you were in diapers back then.
>> Do you always insult your good friends like this. I bet that
>> makes them proud to have you around. Incidentally, I went to
>> college in Boston (and Florida, and Arizona, and I might even
>> go here in Austin too.)
>
>Oh really, let's see, Boston-Boston U, Arizona- ASU, Florida- Florida A&M,
>yeah-the three stars of America's higher education system, ha!
>
You haven't hit one yet. You're on a roll.
>> Again, what was it you claimed to have a degree in?
>
>My degree is in exposing white trash morons, like you!!!
Uhm, the only person you are exposing is yourself. The only thing you
have said about me which is even remotely correct is you have managed
to guess my skin color.
Gosh, you are fun but I am getting bored. Maybe you should try a little
harder next time and try to get something else right. I'll give you a
hint, I went to 13 different grade schools in America and abroad. See
if you can guess at least one. Too tough, let me narrow the odds for
you. I attended classes at 4 different universities and 3 different
junior colleges. This doesn't add up to anything but it might make
your wild assed guesses easier.
Rick - yawn :^)
Rick Shank
George Soros <so...@hmudd.edu> wrote:
>ri...@dvorak.amd.com (Rick Shank) wrote:
>>Not that he doesn't have a case. It has been known
>>for years that when it comes to primary education,
>>America is one of the worst in the free world.
>>It is only our colleges which are world class.
>>Most of the foreigners I
>>went to college with had already had all
>the material up and including the
>>second year.
>>They did this work in their high schools.
>>
>>Rick
>
You are a very interesting character. You make Mike Dash
look intelligent. Let's see, I said high school in
America was second class and Colleges were far better:
bypassing the childish insults, you claim:
... our local college is at high school level.
>There's an excellent
>explanation for that "Rick!" At UT Austin - the
>education level is at a HIGH SCHOOL level!!
You continually miss the point but maybe that's because
your reading skills are so much better than ours.
>America's
>is one of the worst in the free world?? Put down
>that May '89 Time magazine Rick!! Get with it!!!
>Maybe at your pathetic white trash high school you
>didn't learn anything, but then again, I'm sure
>you didn't learn
>anything at UT that I didn't cover in high school!!
>You didn't go to high school in Europe,
> you aren't from Europe-you don't know shit! I'm from
>Europe, I know!! I went to high school in America,
>I know!!! Intro math courses in, say German universities,
>begin with taking fucking derivatives!! Of course at
>UT Austin, that's something you probably learned
>senior year after your 12 physics classes covering
>algebraic equations. Second year math at my school is
>called Matrix algebra-ever hear of that?
Yup, wanna try some?
>Europeans
>learning Matrix algebra in their
>equivalent of high school? BAHAHAHA!!!!
All the foreign students I went to college with had
already had matrix (linear) algebra.
>Your good friend Eric
Do you always insult your good friends like this. I bet that
makes them proud to have you around. Incidentally, I went to
college in Boston (and Florida, and Arizona, and I might even
go here in Austin too.)
Again, what was it you claimed to have a degree in?
Rick
Thor Legvold
>> start with :-) I don't want to guess blindly...
>
"Thorton"?
Well, in my view we can do one of two things, we can:
1. discuss our (differing) views and experiences on this
public forum so that perhaps we both might (even others,
possibly) learn something, or we can:
2. flame, tease and otherwise degrade each other for
whatever reasons might exist.
I'm interested in option 1. My reaction to your post and
its tone indicates to me you're interested in number 2,
i.e. you haven't adressed any issues, you've merely resorted
to the logical fallacy of "attacking the person". While
you might find it entertaining (you have nothing else to
do?) or a source of fun to show your friends, I would
rather spend my time doing other thing. Additionally,
I pay for my I'net link and for everything that crossses
it...
So, my suggestion is that if you would like to _discuss_
the pro's/cons/experiences/opinions of european vs.
american education (original thread), culture, tv ;-)
I'm more than willing to. If you'd like to flame my
email adress is on the header, you'll find /dev/null
on the local file system at your site if you prefer that.
>> I agree, it would be a lot easier. However, as a previous
>> poster pointed out, most americans can't concentrate on
>> anything for more than 30 seconds (perhaps a bit overdriven,
>> but look at the society, culture and collective memory
>> for many supporting facits)
>BAHAHAHAAH!!!!! PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! Don't show America that you are
>a stereotypical European!!! You give Europe a bad name!!!! (Folks, not
I'm not at all stereotypical, and the poster who made the
original comment was an american (or is at least posting from
an american university). I also pointed out that my point
was overdriven for emphasis, perhaps you missed that?
>everyone in Europe thinks Americans are a bunch of cultureless,
>tv-watching, burger eating sloths) I get sick and tired of speaking to
No, most people (youth) don't think that, not at first. They
think everyone is like on american TV (Baywatch, Seinfeld,
many popular american series), lives in Beverly Hills or
Hollywood, etc. Or MTV. This is my experience and opinion,
not that of all europeans or all americans - who are you
speaking for if not yourself? Then, many youth who have
idealized america through MTV, etc etc get f.x. a year as
exchange students, or a college year at a "sister" school,
etc. Many find it fun, exciting, people are very open and
friendly. But, many also are left a bit "empty" by
the lack of sincerity and general "shallowness" experienced
in interpersonal relations. Shocked at the social extremes.
Surprised that "the melting pot" has resisted any degree
of true integration among different peoples (something
we are now struggeling with in certain areas). Etc etc.
>people who just came back from a trip to America, and all they can do is
>complain and compare, and say how great Switzerland/Germany etc.. is
Sounds like you have a problem with people not accepting
"your" fact that usa is _much_ better than anywhere else...
Maybe for you it is - have fun! Don't mean that that then
applies to everyone, or that everyone accepts your value
system without thought or objection (the one you implicitly
imply through your posted material so far).
>better!! If America is full of idiots, stop buying their products, stop
>eating their food, stop watching their films, and stop listening to their
Why? I did not say idiots - you did. It is IMO unfortunate
that norwegian, french, german kids put on oversized pants,
baseball caps and sweatshirts to "hang" at the shopping centre
in an attempt to identify with "Coolio" instead of taking an
interest in their own culture as well. But that's a free market,
and most kids (that I've seen) grow out of it. Note that I'm
not saying one culture is better than another, but that it is
unfortunate if one looses the culture (and lanuage) to the
fads and whims of MTV (really, this belongs in soc.culture.*)
America makes some wonderful products, has some great
universities and thinkers, but also many serious problems.
Ignoring these IMO through arguments such as "love it or
leave it" as you propose don't help the matter and don't
foster any type of open debate.
>music! Most Americans can't concentrate for more than 30 seconds....
>Ha!! What has Norway contributed to the world??? Nice scenery for James
Hmm, (I might remember this wrong) I think we are (currently)
the worlds 2nd largest oil exporting nation, have a very
strong sector in engineering, offshore, IT, we give the
Nobel Peace prize each year, were instrumental in the Israeli-
PLO peace process (you've certainly heard of the "Oslo"
agreement?), have the largest % of BNP to humanitarean aid
and assistance to 3rd world countries, have the 2nd larges
(if not the largest) merchant marine fleet in the world,
have more olympic medals from the last games participants/
population wise, have Arve Tellefsen, Ole Anton Edvardsen
and Truls Moerch (internationally famous classical musicians),
Composer Edvard Grieg, authors Knut Hamsun and Ibsen,
and most important we _won_ the eurovision song contest last
year ;-)
I think for a tiny country of 4.5 million out on the "edge"
of europe we've managed quite a bit.
>Bond films, that's what!! Norway doesn't create shit, doesn't do shit,
Haven't seen it. I did see "Il Postino" recently - it was
really nicely made - have you seen it?
>doesn't have shit. That's why imports account for more than 80% of
>Norway's aggregate expenditure!!!! What do you have to say "Thor"???
Sounds like you're hung up on the "data" in your newest CDROM
encyclopedia (probably made in USA...)
>> So, who _is_ George Soros?
>
>Don't know who George Soros is? Well he's a famous living American. If
Great, a famous living american - famous for what?
>you don't know who he is, than you are either a white trash Texas boy like
>Rick Shank who can't read a newspaper, or--you're a European who know's
>little about America and is therefore unqualified to make silly
>assumptions like America has poor education system, etc...!!!!
Again you're mixing arguments. It seems you assume that anyone
not possesing the same knowledge/facts as yourself doesn't
measure up...
Even worse (IMO) is that I pointed out the only Soros I was
aware of (helping eastern european students/universities),
a quick Web search indicates that this is indeed George
Soros. So, not only are you flaming and calling me ignorant,
you're also doing it after I've indicated that I do in fact
know who/what Soros is...
>> This is quite funny! I'm sure that there is more to geography than
>> simply reading an atlas (see above), but the arguments you use are
>> many of the same I use to tease many of my friends at teh faculty
>> of law - the only one not "closed" (i.e. requiring some entrance
>
>blablabla.... You don't have to explain this to me, do you forget where
>I'm from, Thordo??
I have no idea where you are from, I only recall that you have
studied in USA and in switzerland and had a internship in
germany. So, wher are you from? And if you've never been
here (and the other european law faculties are _not_ built
up in the same manner) how shal I assume you know this?
And why be offended at all by it?
>Now I know exactly who you are!!! I'm from Europe "Thor", do you
I'd really like to know what that means..."I'm from europe"
What do you imply by it? From your tone it seems to me
you imply that you are somehow better than others, or
understand more. However, it doesn't exaclty fit well if
you at the same time are trying to be an american because
you feel "they" are better... I haven't implied that
either are better - or that europeans are flawless. I
have stated that IMO (and that of the norwegian, german
and other european school systems) our equivalent of a
us "high school" education is superior - and most students
studying a year "over there" at high school get _no_ credit
for it here, while "gymnasiaster" from here often find
that they have the equivalent of a two year college
degree (i.e. A.A.). An opinion with wich you disagree,
but you still haven't presented anything except name calling,
innuendos and flames...
>forget?? I meet losers like you everyday. "Oh America is full of crime,
I see. Just what is a "looser like me"? Must be difficult for
you having to meet such people everyday, it seems to really
bother you.
America is full of crime some places and relatively safe others,
like many places. I read recently that NY was actually one
of the safer cities because of recent anti violence campaigns.
However, (without saying yea or nay) the presens of firearms
makes for different challenges for your police and for crime.
But, its a "free" country, and if folk feel the need for
guns they have that right.
>people there are lazy and never read, look at their health care system...
Again it's a choice. Clinton tried to get a semlance of minimum
health care for all...at least tried. You have a different
choice. Here one pays a symboplic sum for medical attention,
and everyone, no matter social status, economic status,
beleif, colour, etc has the same right (and gets it). But,
we have (for certain things) queues, and everyone has to
pay for the social benefits - they are not free. BUt,
everyone receives a pension (and a liveable one), no matter
what they've done or how long (it varies upon what you did
and how long - I'm not explaining to you, but to others who
might not know the system). We don't have the individualism
found in the US, the society is much more homogenous as are
the values and beleifs. This is (slowly) changing, and our
society with it. Sweden is already facing economic problems
which threatens their socialist underpinnings. (I _hope_
people here realize the difference between socialism and
communism...something an american high-school "teacher"
adamantly insisted to me were identical...sigh) Well,
again we're getting away towards soc.culture.*
>etc..." Hey-if you don't like America, just stop consuming American
>products, and listening to American ideas!! How far would you get then,
Pretty far. Why stop? What's your point?
>"Thor??" Americans have their share of problems, but it's 10000 times
>better than Norway will ever be. I used to think you were an ok guy, but
In your opinion. I've lived both places (extensively). It was
fun in the US (lots of fun!), it's home here. I wonder how you
define "better", no wait, let me guess....:-)
>now I know you're just another Norwegien with an inferiority complex.
Again making unfounded assumtions. Could we get back to MA?
What do you train? Why? (a small attempt to get back to
the topic of this group :-)
Regards,
Rick Shank
>In article 4...@newsreader.wustl.edu, George Soros <so...@hmudd.edu> writes:
>
>>learning Matrix algebra in their
>>equivalent of high school? BAHAHAHA!!!!
>
>
>easy. My problem was automata theory, but that was a
>weed-out class.
>
It seems not only is this character having trouble with humanities, he
is also going through an identity crisis.
GLOBAXIS
there.....grow the f$%k up. It sounds like a religious battle over
electronic text. VT and GJJ are possibly the best combination of styles
to FIGHT as opposed to sparring in a dojo for fun.
RECOGNIZE THIS AND YOU´RE HALFWAY THERE..........THE OTHER HALF IS LETTING
GO OF PRECONCIEVED NOTIONS STEMMING FROM INSULTS.
George Soros
> Hey troller-boy, Rick didn't go to UT, he went to school
> in Arizona. It's funny you should say anything at all
> about one's university experience, given the school
> you appear to be attending...
Hey loser!!!! What school do you think I attend??? I attend Claremont
Pomona. Don't confuse that with any poly schools I know you are thinking
of. Don't worry about your mistake though, lots of uneducated white trash
like you have never heard of it and make the same mistake. Claremont
Pomona- look it up in a book sometime, idiot!!!! And what schools are
there in Arizona??? None that can even be compared to Pomona!!! You are
a fool!!!!! You only expose your idiocy when you reply, MORON!!!!
> Yeah right.
Oh, good argument!!! Did you learn that in your night school law class???
> It's not that you "know", it's that you have an opinion.
> There is a difference b/w that and fact. The Europeans
> I know did cover a lot of college material in high
> school. That may be changing now. But the quality of
> our schools is still low. That has more to do with the
> students, however.
Again, wrong!!!!!! Ask any unbiased European without a stick up their ass
and they will say the same thing. Stop ripping on your own country you
idiot!!!! This isn't even my country and here I am defending it agaist
an AMERICAN!!! What's with that??? Are you high or this just your usual
idiot self speaking??
> Why did you start so late w/ matrices?
Matrix Algebra??, For the last time, I'm talking about Matrix Algebra, not
a tic tac toe box with 4 numbers in it that you type in your piece of shit
TI85 Calculator!! You are an IDIOT!!!!!! Do you understand that???? You
obviously have no conception of matrix algebra, have no idea what it is,
yet you still try to argue with me!!! Why are you so STUPID??????
> I wouldn't put it past them. Matrix algebra is pretty
> easy. My problem was automata theory, but that was a
> weed-out class.
Automata theory in your pathetic night school. That's fine, LOSER! I
don't care what you learned!! You have no concept of Matrix Algebra, you
have no idea what Claremont Pomona is, and you sign your name with WT.
This reveals that you are 1) a complete idiot, 2) you graduated from a
pathetic junior college like Rick, and 3) you're life is so pathetic that
your sorry existence is dependent upon and connected to like an umbilical
cord a pathetic, bullshit "martial art" who's main spokesman is just
another Turkish immigrant to Germany who starts fights in discos. There's
a reason why most clubs don't allow Turks in anymore-- Emin Bostepe and
people like him.
Michael Peter
>In article <4fddoh$1...@giga.bga.com>, pet...@ses.com wrote:
>
>> Hey troller-boy, Rick didn't go to UT, he went to school
>> in Arizona. It's funny you should say anything at all
>> about one's university experience, given the school
>> you appear to be attending...
>Hey loser!!!! What school do you think I attend??? I attend Claremont
>Pomona. Don't confuse that with any poly schools I know you are thinking
>of. Don't worry about your mistake though, lots of uneducated white trash
>like you have never heard of it and make the same mistake. Claremont
>Pomona- look it up in a book sometime, idiot!!!! And what schools are
>there in Arizona??? None that can even be compared to Pomona!!! You are
>a fool!!!!! You only expose your idiocy when you reply, MORON!!!!
Whew, better watch those gaskets. I wasn't thinking of any poly schools.
Pomona did cross my mind. You are kind of uppity and like to hide behind
the credentials of people (George) and places (Pomona), rather than trying
to stand on your own. Typical of some students at Pomona, Harvard, and the
like.
>
>> Yeah right.
>Oh, good argument!!! Did you learn that in your night school law class???
>
I'm not arguing with you.
>
>> It's not that you "know", it's that you have an opinion.
>> There is a difference b/w that and fact. The Europeans
>> I know did cover a lot of college material in high
>> school. That may be changing now. But the quality of
>> our schools is still low. That has more to do with the
>> students, however.
>Again, wrong!!!!!! Ask any unbiased European without a stick up their ass
>and they will say the same thing. Stop ripping on your own country you
>idiot!!!! This isn't even my country and here I am defending it agaist
>an AMERICAN!!! What's with that??? Are you high or this just your usual
>idiot self speaking??
>
I'm not ripping on my own country. The first step to fixing a problem is
realizing that there is a problem. It's far easier and safer to hide your
head in the sand than take that responsibility.
>> Why did you start so late w/ matrices?
>Matrix Algebra??, For the last time, I'm talking about Matrix Algebra, not
>a tic tac toe box with 4 numbers in it that you type in your piece of shit
>TI85 Calculator!! You are an IDIOT!!!!!! Do you understand that???? You
>obviously have no conception of matrix algebra, have no idea what it is,
>yet you still try to argue with me!!! Why are you so STUPID??????
Matrices aren't tic tac toe boxes. You haven't been studying this stuff
long, have you? You know - matrix algebra, linear algebra, algebraic systems
of matrices, multilinear algebra, vector and tensor algebra, matrix theory
and physics, etc...
>
>> I wouldn't put it past them. Matrix algebra is pretty
>> easy. My problem was automata theory, but that was a
>> weed-out class.
>
>Automata theory in your pathetic night school. That's fine, LOSER! I
>don't care what you learned!! You have no concept of Matrix Algebra,
Apparently not the same matrix algebra you are studying.
>you
>have no idea what Claremont Pomona is,
A liberal arts college. It's very well known and has a good reputation.
The college that is. The students have to stand on their own two feet.
>and you sign your name with WT.
No, I sign my name with "Mike."
>This reveals that you are 1) a complete idiot, 2) you graduated from a
>pathetic junior college like Rick, and 3) you're life is so pathetic that
>your sorry existence is dependent upon and connected to like an umbilical
>cord a pathetic, bullshit "martial art" who's main spokesman is just
>another Turkish immigrant to Germany who starts fights in discos. There's
>a reason why most clubs don't allow Turks in anymore-- Emin Bostepe and
>people like him.
Well, Sherlock, looks like the planes are flying high today. I am who I am,
and I stand on my own two feet. I don't hide behind the credentials of anyone
or anything other than myself, and I take a dim view of anyone who, out of
need or fear, does. That sort of superficiality indicates that something has
gone horribly wrong in the deeper recesses of that person's psyche. But keep
building those walls...
Mike
WT