Best martial arts programs for kids 3 1/2 to 6 yo
lfna...@my-deja.com
The girl is 5 1/2 yo while the boy is 3 1/2 yo.
The two centers I have found in my area offer either Taekwon-Do or
Shaolin-Kenpo Karate.
My 3 yo boy is very energetic and athletic while my 5 1/2 yo girl is
not. They are both in great shape and eager to try anything we expose
them to.
The questions I have are the following:
1) What is the appropriate age for children to start martial arts
2) Which style is best at teaching both self defense and personal
character traits. My kids are very polite but while my girl is very
focused on her works....my boy is not. His attention span, although
much better than a year ago....needs improvement.
3) Will my girl be able to start such a sport without much inclination
so far for roughness?! I want her to be able to defend herself in this
crazy world of ours as well as keep herself in shape for the rest of her
life.
I hope I made some sense in regards to what I'm looking for, so if you
think you can give me some advise I would appreciate it very much.
Thanks
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Gichoke
>Date: 4/14/00 4:25 PM EST
>Message-id: <8d82bm$9nn$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>I am thinking of introducing my small children to martial arts.
>The girl is 5 1/2 yo while the boy is 3 1/2 yo.
>The two centers I have found in my area offer either Taekwon-Do or
>Shaolin-Kenpo Karate.
>My 3 yo boy is very energetic and athletic while my 5 1/2 yo girl is
>not. They are both in great shape and eager to try anything we expose
>them to.
>The questions I have are the following:
>1) What is the appropriate age for children to start martial arts
Personally,I think 5 1/2 is ideal,but 3 is too young.
>
>2) Which style is best at teaching both self defense and personal
>character traits.
I would try Judo.It is traditional and orderly... somewhat formal,but still
fun.
And it is much more effective than TKD,Karate and Kung Fu for self-defense.
Judo is like wrestling.Kds like to play so it is fun for them.
>
>3) Will my girl be able to start such a sport without much inclination
>so far for roughness?! I want her to be able to defend herself in this
>crazy world of ours as well as keep herself in shape for the rest of her
>life.
Yes,she won't think of it as fighting the same ways boys do though,girls tend
to veiw it more as a social thing.
> I want her to be able to defend herself in this
>crazy world of ours as well as keep herself in shape for the rest of her
>life.
Then she must learn a form of grappling (like Judo).It is absurd to think that
a woman studying only a striking art(like karate) would be able to defend
herself from a strong man.
Gi
ignoran...@my-deja.com
lfna...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I am thinking of introducing my small children to martial arts.
> The girl is 5 1/2 yo while the boy is 3 1/2 yo.
> The two centers I have found in my area offer either Taekwon-Do or
> Shaolin-Kenpo Karate.
> My 3 yo boy is very energetic and athletic while my 5 1/2 yo girl is
> not. They are both in great shape and eager to try anything we expose
> them to.
> The questions I have are the following:
> 1) What is the appropriate age for children to start martial arts
>
> focused on her works....my boy is not. His attention span, although
> much better than a year ago....needs improvement.
>
> so far for roughness?! I want her to be able to defend herself in
this
> crazy world of ours as well as keep herself in shape for the rest of
her
> life.
>
> think you can give me some advise I would appreciate it very much.
>
> Thanks
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
Respectfully,
Regarding appropriate age...
Your children are too young to study martial arts. Anybody who would
take them as students is just out for your money. Enroll them when they
are about 8 or 9. Also, find a school that will take them on as
lifetime students and not just think of the short term. At their age,
and until they are about 17, their bodies have not yet fully developed.
In much traditional training, you don't actually hit anything (much
less spar) until you are about 17.
Here in the US, many schools will take students from 6 and up, put pads
on them and tell them to "go at it". Go at what? When you're 6, you
don't have the attention span, body awareness or mental capacity to
truly understand the techniques. Still, if you are just looking for
something for them to do - a positive and goal oriented activity - they
will go there and dress up and interact with the other kids, and get
LOTS of exercies, and some discipline. It will also keep them out of
trouble for the most part. Just don't expect them to be able to beat
off a 30 year old man who is trying to abduct them - it's just not
realistic.
From an economic standpoint, enrolling a bunch of kids is a good, stable
way to earn revenue. Crank the minimum age down from 8 to 5 and you've
just made yourself some money. Just my worthless opinion.
Regarding the style...
Style will be less important than the quality of instructor and safety
of your kids. Find a school and instructor that enjoys teaching
children and where they will feel comfortable (though they will be
uncomfortable the first few days probably). You can tell instructors
who are good with kids. TKD is good for kids because all of the kicking
uses lots of energy, which means tired kids, which means peace :) But a
good teacher and safety should come first, then whether or not they
enjoy themselves (or will will simply not go).
Regarding your girl and the "roughness" of martial arts...
If you find a good instructor, this will not be a problem. A good
instructor will ensure that safety comes first and will not encourage or
direct activities that will lead to injury. Talk to the other parents,
and observe the instructor and kids for a week or so before you join.
Look for classes with kids that are enjoying themselves, the really care
about the training, but are not goofing off.
Also, don't get locked into a big contract. Sometimes kids' interest is
evanescent. If one or both lose interest and you have signed a 6 mo or
1 year contract, it will hurt. It is reasonable to expect a 3 month
contract. It may take that long to see if it's going to "stick", but
never sign more than 3 months ESPECIALLY for kids.
Hope some of this rambling helps.
Humbly / IM
ignoran...@my-deja.com
gic...@aol.com (Gichoke) wrote:
> >: lfna...@my-deja.com
> >Date: 4/14/00 4:25 PM EST
> >Message-id: <8d82bm$9nn$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
> >
> >The girl is 5 1/2 yo while the boy is 3 1/2 yo.
> >The two centers I have found in my area offer either Taekwon-Do or
> >Shaolin-Kenpo Karate.
> >My 3 yo boy is very energetic and athletic while my 5 1/2 yo girl is
> >not. They are both in great shape and eager to try anything we
expose
> >them to.
> >The questions I have are the following:
> >1) What is the appropriate age for children to start martial arts
>
>
> >
> >character traits.
>
still
> fun.
> And it is much more effective than TKD,Karate and Kung Fu for
self-defense.
>
> Judo is like wrestling.Kds like to play so it is fun for them.
>
> >
inclination
> >so far for roughness?! I want her to be able to defend herself in
this
> >crazy world of ours as well as keep herself in shape for the rest of
her
> >life.
>
though,girls tend
> to veiw it more as a social thing.
>
> >crazy world of ours as well as keep herself in shape for the rest of
her
> >life.
>
think that
defend
> herself from a strong man.
>
> Gi
I would think a little girl would be better off utilizing "strike
quickly" (groin, etc.) and run away than trying to employ
grappling techniques. My style has striking and ground fighting, as
well as Chin Na, so I realize the value of groundfighting. Anyone who
says groundfighters aren't effective, has never been infront of one.
But still, little girls have such little mass and strength...
We have been doing a lot of groundfighting lately, and there is one
woman in our class. If she doesn't get the technique JUST RIGHT, she's
at a bad disadvantage because of her limited strength. And she's 30.
When situations get serious, things don't always go clinically. I would
think that the child's energy and evasive nature would maximize the
resources available to them in a bind. Just my worthles opinion.
Humbly / IM
....
"And it is much more effective than TKD,Karate and Kung Fu for
self-defense."
You think? ;)
Russ Rader
>
>I would think a little girl would be better off utilizing "strike
>quickly" (groin, etc.) and run away than trying to employ
>grappling techniques. My style has striking and ground fighting, as
>well as Chin Na, so I realize the value of groundfighting. Anyone who
>says groundfighters aren't effective, has never been infront of one.
>But still, little girls have such little mass and strength...
Neither a striking nor a grappling art would help a 5 y.o. kid against a
motivated adult. A grappling art is actually not a bad idea for an older
girl or young woman, though, since the attack she will most likely face is
sexual assault. If she is put on the ground by an attacker, she better know
what to do once she is put there. But even then, chances of defending
herself against a much stronger man are iffy. At five years of age, no way.
The best martial art for kids that age is "run away while screaming shrilly
then use the cell phone that mommie gave me and programmed with autodial to
mommie's cell phone for just such an emergency" style kung-fu.
Having said that, I actually have to agree with Gichoke on this one. Judo
would be a good art for kids that age. Even with judo (or any other art)
they won't be able to defend themselves against the monsters out there at
that age, but it will teach them to fall safely, they'll have fun rolling
around wearing the neato uniforms, they'll get some exercise, and if the
school is good they might get a little bit of discipline. I've heard of too
many kids that age who take punch/kick type arts at some sort of "Power
Rangers" program, and when they are in elementary school, they often forget
they are not in kurotty class and punch or kick other kids. I don't know if
that would be such a problem with judo. Maybe they'll just throw the other
kids down, instead, I dunno.
I agree with ignorant_mantis about that age being too young to spar. It
should basically be a fun exercise program with spiffy clothes and a little
discipline at that age. Beware of schools that teach joint
locking/submission techniques to kids that young, and/or have them doing
ballistic (bouncing) stretches. You don't want those kids to be hurting
their young, incompletely developed joints.
My 0.02$, hope it helps
Russ
Gichoke
>Date: 4/14/00 10:24 PM EST
>Message-id: <8d8ncs$3p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>quickly" (groin, etc.) and run away than trying to employ
>grappling techniques.
You would be wrong.
A little girl could not fight a man with grappling or striking.
At all.
But when she grows to young womanhood she'll have an easier time in a date rape
situation if she knows Judo than TKD Karate or Kung Fu.
By far easier.
>But still, little girls have such little mass and strength...
I thought that this point was so obvious that I didn't bother mentioning it.
>
>We have been doing a lot of groundfighting lately, and there is one
>woman in our class. If she doesn't get the technique JUST RIGHT, she's
>at a bad disadvantage because of her limited strength.
Of course.
But if she kickboxes a man,and hits him just right... and he's in a fould mood.
He'll ignore it.
But if she triangle chokes him,he damn well better not ignore it.
If a wioman without alot of grappling experience is attacked by a man,it is
ver likely that she will be on the ground immediatly.
Which is why grappling for a woman is ideal... because
1) she may be able to escape a takedown attempt.
2) if taken down,she may be able to perform an escape.
3) It takes less strength to pull of an armbar on a guy who doesn't know what
one is,,than it takes for a woman to beat a man into submission.
> And she's 30.
>When situations get serious, things don't always go clinically.
Unfortuante,but true.
Even with Judo she may get mauled,but at least she won't break her hip when she
thrown.
Judo makes for a tough gal.
>I would
>think that the child's energy and evasive nature would maximize the
>resources available to them in a bind.
A judoka has a better chance of avoiding a grab and escaping.
> Just my worthles opinion.
Your opinions aren't worthless.
Just incorrect.
>
>Humbly
Arrogantly.
>
> "And it is much more effective than TKD,Karate and Kung Fu for
>self-defense."
>
>You think? ;)
No.
Actually I am a Master of three seperate Kung Fu systems,and the founder of my
own style of Eclectic Karate(pattent pending)
Gi
Gichoke
>Date: 4/14/00 9:58 PM ES
>At their age,
>and until they are about 17, their bodies have not yet fully developed.
True in the case of the male.
But females get olympic gold medals younger than 17.
>In much traditional training, you don't actually hit anything (much
>less spar) until you are about 17.
>
And by that time a youngster has had more than enough time to develop an
irrational fear of getting hit.
C'mon... kids love to fight,and it is perfectly natural.
Besides it is most important to know how to fight in junior highschool,where
the real shitkicking goes on.
I train my 2 nephews and my neice(she's 8 and alarmingly adept on the
ground,and has a left right lefthook boxing combo that is snappy and thrown
with near flawless form)and if other kids don't train soon they will lose the
arms race.
>
>Here in the US, many schools will take students from 6 and up, put pads
>on them and tell them to "go at it". Go at what? When you're 6, you
>don't have the attention span, body awareness or mental capacity to
>truly understand the techniques.
But they have fun sparring.
They love it.
>Just don't expect them to be able to beat
>off a 30 year old man who is trying to abduct them - it's just not
>realistic.
>
No one suggested that they could,I think she was refferring to training now to
prevent a future violent beating.
Charos
I agree...3 is too young...
> >2) Which style is best at teaching both self defense and personal
> >character traits.
>
> I would try Judo.It is traditional and orderly... somewhat formal,but
still
> fun.
> And it is much more effective than TKD,Karate and Kung Fu for
self-defense.
I've always found Jujitsu to be superior to judo in self defence...ends the
fight much quicker...for instance, in judo, a shoulder throw is executed by
placing the opponents armpit on your shoulder and throwing them over. In
jujitsu (from what I've seen) the same throw is done by placing the
opponents elbow on the shoulder and throwing...effectively breaking the
arm...someone may get up after a judo throw...but I don't care how tough you
are, a broken arm is going to fuck with your ability to fight incredibly.
> Judo is like wrestling.Kds like to play so it is fun for them.
I agree with this...
> >3) Will my girl be able to start such a sport without much inclination
> >so far for roughness?! I want her to be able to defend herself in this
> >crazy world of ours as well as keep herself in shape for the rest of her
> >life.
>
> Yes,she won't think of it as fighting the same ways boys do though,girls
tend
> to veiw it more as a social thing.
At first... :)
> > I want her to be able to defend herself in this
> >crazy world of ours as well as keep herself in shape for the rest of her
> >life.
>
> Then she must learn a form of grappling (like Judo).It is absurd to think
that
> a woman studying only a striking art(like karate) would be able to defend
> herself from a strong man.
Why not both? in all honesty I would rather my daughter learn how to
properly kick to the groin, strike to the eyes and throat etc. as a form of
self defence...she may be a great grappler, but if she grabs a 250 pound
football player and tries to throw him, she's going to get fucked up. This
also depends on talents...a close friend of mine is a 17 year old female and
has MIND-BLOWING legs...her kicks are incredibly powerful and fast (much
more-so than most men I've seen.) Now, I've seen her fight a guy who was
attacking her (it was at a concert...I was amazed when no one jumped in...if
I hadn't been behind a veritable wall of people I would have helped) and she
took this guy (easily twice her weight, and not in fat either) apart. Did
it real quick too, one kick to the groin and the guy bent over and 2 well
placed kicks to the head and he was out cold. So look around...for
self-defence, I personally would reccomend Small Circle Jujitsu (if you can
find it) or just jujitsu...it seems to fucus on the ability to control
someone much larger than you with a minimum effort.
--
*+_Charos_+*
Jim Phelps is a freak of nature, right Jim Phelps?
"Some of my friends, for instance, think these pro-life
people are annoying idiots. Other of my friends think
these pro-life people are evil fucks"
--Bill Hicks
-------------------------------------------------------
Visit: http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=BEC-997 for a great
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Dustin Laurence
>ignoran...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8d8ncs$3p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>>
>>I would think a little girl would be better off utilizing "strike
>>quickly" (groin, etc.) and run away than trying to employ
>>grappling techniques. My style has striking and ground fighting, as
>>well as Chin Na, so I realize the value of groundfighting. Anyone who
>>says groundfighters aren't effective, has never been infront of one.
>>But still, little girls have such little mass and strength...
>Neither a striking nor a grappling art would help a 5 y.o. kid against a
>motivated adult.
Or against an unmotivated one, for that matter. I've seen some really big
kids for their age, but it just isn't going to matter. *Everything* is
against them: reach, strength, speed, coordination, experience. I don't
mind my seven-year-old nephew hitting my stomach as hard as he can for a
punching bag, and my abs are nothing to be impressed with. I suppose a
kick might be uncomfortable in the solar plexus or groin, but he can't
get that high with his foot, and my arms are longer than his legs. For
that matter, there are precious few weapons that would help him, either.
We toss rubber ninja stars at each other, and I can generally grab him
before he can get one thrown.
The whole idea of a child fighting an adult is nuts. That is the last
reason to have a child in martial arts. The first reason is: it's fun. I
try not to have goals for Geof, myself, so I don't push him. He asked to
go, and after six months, he still always wants to go back. That, in my
mind, is what matters.
>Having said that, I actually have to agree with Gichoke on this one. Judo
>would be a good art for kids that age.
Ack. Gichoke said that? I've come to agree as well, as embarassing as it
is to agree with Gi. Assuming that he starts getting his homework done in
better time, I'm moving Geof from a karate class to a judo class.
However, remember that "fun" thing? It is fun to try different
things. For *children*, I think it is entirely appropriate that they want
to do something different after a while. Sticking with something until
you have really learned something is an adult concept that is likely to
make things not fun, except in small doses. So I think the injunction
against style-hopping should not apply to children except perhaps on an
individual basis.
>...I've heard of too
>many kids that age who take punch/kick type arts at some sort of "Power
>Rangers" program, and when they are in elementary school, they often forget
>they are not in kurotty class and punch or kick other kids. I don't know if
>that would be such a problem with judo. Maybe they'll just throw the other
>kids down, instead, I dunno.
The one time that martial arts might actually be useful as martial arts is
against bullies near their own size, when they are old enough to actually
start learning something (and assuming that it was fun long enough to
learn something). I agree with Russ here too--grappling seems more
appropriate. Kids wrestle all the time anyway, and it is my strong
suspicion that the school office is going to take a very different view of
hitting than of wrestling, no matter if we're talking an entirely
ineffectual swipe vs. a takedown that could whack someone's head against
the ground. School office types are not noted for their common sense
anyway, so appearance matters here.
Funny thing--to paraphrase the popular phrase, I do think that 90% of
*children's* fights end up on the ground. I'd think wrestling around all
over the mat would be very appropriate as well as fun, as far as actual
possible use goes.
>...It
>should basically be a fun exercise program with spiffy clothes and a little
>discipline at that age.
I don't think the importance of it being *fun* for the child rather than
wish-fulfillment for the parent can be stressed enough. I like Geof doing
martial arts, but if I ever think it's quit being fun that will be it.
>...Beware of schools that teach joint
>locking/submission techniques to kids that young, and/or have them doing
>ballistic (bouncing) stretches.
Or chokes, for that matter, nor finishing techniques of any kind.
Basically, nothing that requires much judgement before using, or that
can't be fixed by an "oops, gee I'm sorry" if it is used inappropriately.
Know what? I have come to a conclusion: I haven't been reading this group
that long but this is a subject that comes up often enough that it could
use a FAQ of its own.
Dustin
--
"I regard you as one of the largest obstacles to
the free dissemination of information to the world
aquarist community that has ever existed."
-- Richard Sexton, <4i406o$o...@gold.interlog.com>
Gichoke
>From: "Charos" cha...@NOSPAMhome.com
>Date: 4/15/00 0:55 AM EST
>Message-id: <HvTJ4.193099$Hq3.4...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com>
>
>> Personally,I think 5 1/2 is ideal,but 3 is too young.
>
>I agree...3 is too young...
>
>> >2) Which style is best at teaching both self defense and personal
>> >character traits.
>>
>> I would try Judo.It is traditional and orderly... somewhat formal,but
>still
>> fun.
>> And it is much more effective than TKD,Karate and Kung Fu for
>self-defense.
>
>I've always found Jujitsu to be superior to judo in self defence..
traditional jiu-jitsu? no way.
>.for instance, in judo, a shoulder throw is executed by
>placing the opponents armpit on your shoulder and throwing them over. In
>jujitsu (from what I've seen) the same throw is done by placing the
>opponents elbow on the shoulder and throwing...effectively breaking the
>arm...someone may get up after a judo throw...but I don't care how tough you
>are, a broken arm is going to fuck with your ability to fight incredibly.
>
But i have not seen a stading armbreak work in a single nhb fight,and ive seen
thousands.
It is a very lowe percentage move that traditional jujutsuan neve have done
against a restisting opponent.
>
>> > I want her to be able to defend herself in this
>> >crazy world of ours as well as keep herself in shape for the rest of her
>> >life.
>>
>> Then she must learn a form of grappling (like Judo).It is absurd to think
>that
>> a woman studying only a striking art(like karate) would be able to defend
>> herself from a strong man.
>
>Why not both? in all honesty I would rather my daughter learn how to
>properly kick to the groin, strike to the eyes and throat etc. as a form of
>self defence
Those strikes are low percentage too.
This has been shown countless times in vale tudo and challenge matches.
>.she may be a great grappler, but if she grabs a 250 pound
>football player and tries to throw him, she's going to get fucked up.
And if she kicks him in the nuts?
He will kill her.
At least if she knows judo she might be able to go along with an alluat
willingly until she can sink a choke while he's unsuspecting.
>This
>also depends on talents...a close friend of mine is a 17 year old female and
>has MIND-BLOWING legs...her kicks are incredibly powerful and fast (much
>more-so than most men I've seen.) Now, I've seen her fight a guy who was
>attacking her (it was at a concert...I was amazed when no one jumped in...if
>I hadn't been behind a veritable wall of people I would have helped) and she
>took this guy (easily twice her weight, and not in fat either) apart.
How hard a woman kicks is not important.
Steetfighters rush forward and wont stand toe-to-toe... there is too much
forward pressure.
There is one exchange and the woman is down.
Men have 3.5 times the adrenaline that woman have,weigh 40 pounds more and owe
10% less of their bodyweight to fat.
>Did
>it real quick too, one kick to the groin and the guy bent over and 2 well
>placed kicks to the head and he was out cold.
Are you sure this wasn't on Xena?
>So look around...for
>self-defence, I personally would reccomend Small Circle Jujitsu (if you can
>find it) or just jujitsu...it seems to fucus on the ability to control
>someone much larger than you with a minimum effort.
Yes.
Like Judo.
>
>"Some of my friends, for instance, think these pro-life
>people are annoying idiots. Other of my friends think
>these pro-life people are evil fucks"
>--Bill Hicks
Didn't Bill Hicks die a slow painful death from lung cancer?
LOL.
You made my day.
I bet there are alot of dead "fetuses" that want a word with him in hell.
But then if he's lucky there is no god.
And so he's just worm food.
Either way.
I'm smiling.
kXe
> From: gic...@aol.com (Gichoke)
>>
>> 2) Which style is best at teaching both self defense and personal
>> character traits.
>
> I would try Judo.It is traditional and orderly... somewhat formal,but still
> fun.
> And it is much more effective than TKD,Karate and Kung Fu for self-defense.
>
> Judo is like wrestling.Kds like to play so it is fun for them.
>
I agree, just take care that it is a somewhat decent judo club. I don't know
about the quality of judo classes in the USA, but many here are just cheap
baby-sits. Take them to a class where they want to learn your kids
something, not just a class that wants to have as many kids as possible
because it is their biggest revenue.
Maybe someone can recommend a good judo class for these kids?
kXe
ignoran...@my-deja.com
gic...@aol.com (Gichoke) wrote:
> >ignoran...@my-deja.com
> >Date: 4/14/00 9:58 PM ES
>
> >At their age,
> >and until they are about 17, their bodies have not yet fully
developed.
>
> True in the case of the male.
> But females get olympic gold medals younger than 17.
>
> >In much traditional training, you don't actually hit anything (much
> >less spar) until you are about 17.
> >
>
Yeah, you're right they really do love it. I loved it when I was young,
but in hindsight I wish my "arms race" was comprised of a different
arsenal. (I like that analogy). I have come to the think that the
reason I was uncomfortable recommending a judo school for a child as his
"premeire voyage" into the martial arts is that I have never been
exposed to a quality grappling program for kids. The only judo
instructor I have seen was a Korean gentleman who taught olympic-style
WTF TKD and worked judo into his curriculum (s.p.?) to meet the market
demands generated by the increased public interest in the grappling
arts. Now, it takes one to know one so he could have been the greatest
Judoka to walk the face of the earth, but somehow I got the feeling it
wasn't his core competency. I have not visited any Judo schools in my
area and because of this limited exposure have never seen kids reaping
the benefits of their grappling training.
So it's not that I wouldn't recommend a grappling art for kids, I mean,
kids roll around on the floor all day anyway - why not give them some
direction while they're at it. It's just that I have never seen kids
who I feel could apply what they learn in the grappling arts on adults
to any degree of success. This is a function of my ignorance, not a
reflection of reality. So I guess it's kind of like somebody stopping
me on the street and asking me to recommend a restaurant. I would only
recommend places I've been to and think that he/she would enjoy. If I'd
never been to the best restaurant in town, than that stanger would miss
his chance to go if he only asked me.
But I still say the style is of less importance than the teacher for
kids that age. If they were teenagers it would be different. In
nature, bigger, smarter, faster, stronger, more resourceful creatures
injure, kill, or eat smaller, less intelligent, slower, weaker, more
simple creatures. Same with man. With our fighting arts, we are all
maximizing our ability. How we get "maximized" is the art portion and
is of lesser importance (Tae Bo - tee hee hee - not withstanding).
I've enjoyed this forum. Got to go train now before it rains. ;)
Humbly / IM
Eric Siley
6. There are special programs for younger children at some schools,
usually called something like "tiger tots," "Little Dragons," etc, which
specially tailor the class to the attention span and physical abilities
of young children.
2) The most important factor in teaching self-defense and character
traits is finding a good instructor, rather than shopping for a
particular style. With this being said, children seem to enjoy very
physical, acrobatic techniques such as high and spinning kicks. I would
recommend watching several classes at each school, and see how the
instructors interact with the children. In a good children's program,
there is a good mix between learning and fun, and the instructor teaches
discipline without intimidating or taking the fun out of the class for
the kids.
Martial Arts training for children of this age is more about physical
education and building the character traits you mention (confidence,
self-discipline) than self-defense. Self-defense will be a by-product
for any serious student or child who stays with a program through
adolescence.
3) Most of the people who cross the threshold of a dojo or dojang are
not world-class athletes or the most agressive people in our
population. There is a wide range of physical types and personalities,
and a good instructor will guide a motivated person (adult or child) who
stays with a program to great improvements in all of the physical and
mental attributes that make a good martial artist. (which are many of
the same attributes that make a healthy, productive person)
Hope this helps.
lfna...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> I am thinking of introducing my small children to martial arts.
> The girl is 5 1/2 yo while the boy is 3 1/2 yo.
> The two centers I have found in my area offer either Taekwon-Do or
> Shaolin-Kenpo Karate.
> My 3 yo boy is very energetic and athletic while my 5 1/2 yo girl is
> not. They are both in great shape and eager to try anything we expose
> them to.
> The questions I have are the following:
> 1) What is the appropriate age for children to start martial arts
>
> 2) Which style is best at teaching both self defense and personal
> character traits. My kids are very polite but while my girl is very
> focused on her works....my boy is not. His attention span, although
> much better than a year ago....needs improvement.
>
> 3) Will my girl be able to start such a sport without much inclination
> so far for roughness?! I want her to be able to defend herself in this
> crazy world of ours as well as keep herself in shape for the rest of her
> life.
>
> I hope I made some sense in regards to what I'm looking for, so if you
> think you can give me some advise I would appreciate it very much.
>
> Thanks
>
Eric D. Berge
>I am thinking of introducing my small children to martial arts.
>The girl is 5 1/2 yo while the boy is 3 1/2 yo.
>The two centers I have found in my area offer either Taekwon-Do or
>Shaolin-Kenpo Karate.
>My 3 yo boy is very energetic and athletic while my 5 1/2 yo girl is
>not. They are both in great shape and eager to try anything we expose
>them to.
>The questions I have are the following:
>1) What is the appropriate age for children to start martial arts
8 or 9. Your kids are way to young, and if you do find someone to
take them on, rest assured that what you are getting is an expensive,
unethical babysitting service.
>2) Which style is best at teaching both self defense and personal
>character traits.
Judo. The personal character traits part is mostly your job, though.
>3) Will my girl be able to start such a sport without much inclination
>so far for roughness?!
Sure. Kids love tumbling around on a mat.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Berge
(remove _ for address)
Therefore since the world has still
Much good, but much less good than ill,
I'd face it as a wise man would,
o_ \ > And train for ill and not for good.
<| ' ,_|
___/_>____o)____ - A.E. Housman, "A Shropshire Lad"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
lfna...@my-deja.com
"Russ Rader" <rlr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> ignoran...@my-deja.com wrote in message
<8d8ncs$3p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> >
> >I would think a little girl would be better off utilizing "strike
> >quickly" (groin, etc.) and run away than trying to employ
> >grappling techniques. My style has striking and ground fighting, as
> >well as Chin Na, so I realize the value of groundfighting. Anyone
who
> >says groundfighters aren't effective, has never been infront of one.
> >But still, little girls have such little mass and strength...
>
> Neither a striking nor a grappling art would help a 5 y.o. kid against
a
older
> girl or young woman, though, since the attack she will most likely
face is
> sexual assault. If she is put on the ground by an attacker, she
better know
> what to do once she is put there. But even then, chances of
defending
> herself against a much stronger man are iffy. At five years of age,
no way.
> The best martial art for kids that age is "run away while screaming
shrilly
> then use the cell phone that mommie gave me and programmed with
autodial to
> mommie's cell phone for just such an emergency" style kung-fu.
>
Judo
art)
> they won't be able to defend themselves against the monsters out there
at
> that age, but it will teach them to fall safely, they'll have fun
rolling
> around wearing the neato uniforms, they'll get some exercise, and if
the
of too
> many kids that age who take punch/kick type arts at some sort of
"Power
> Rangers" program, and when they are in elementary school, they often
forget
> they are not in kurotty class and punch or kick other kids. I don't
know if
> that would be such a problem with judo. Maybe they'll just throw the
other
> kids down, instead, I dunno.
>
It
little
> locking/submission techniques to kids that young, and/or have them
doing
hurting
> their young, incompletely developed joints.
>
> My 0.02$, hope it helps
> Russ
Russ, I guess my main post gave some of you the impression I was only
looking for real martial techniques at such an early age.
As a matter of fact I am not. I know this is an impossiblity at this
age...therefore, no matter where they are they never go out of my sight!
My question was more towards the idea of: Is it too early to start
martial arts with them......and, which ones are more appropriate in the
long run.....both as a detriment to others as well as self help
(discipline, concentration, etc.)
As I have told you, both kids are very confident and quite happy with
who they are. My 3 1/2 yo boy needs to learn about concentration and
discipline while my 5 1/2 yo girl got it all.....except she is not as
athletic as he is. She also plays piano, and I wonder if that could be
a problem!?
Most of you have suggested they are too young to start martial arts.
The 2 places I have mentioned to you take children as young as 2yo.
Would that be an indication of money interest only, or could they be
legitimate and do well with any age group?
Thanks to you all for giving me so much information in this regard. I'm
definitely doing my homework before taking them anywhere!
lfna...@my-deja.com
ignoran...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8d82bm$9nn$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> lfna...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > I am thinking of introducing my small children to martial arts.
> > The girl is 5 1/2 yo while the boy is 3 1/2 yo.
> > The two centers I have found in my area offer either Taekwon-Do or
> > Shaolin-Kenpo Karate.
> > My 3 yo boy is very energetic and athletic while my 5 1/2 yo girl is
> > not. They are both in great shape and eager to try anything we
expose
> > them to.
> > The questions I have are the following:
> > 1) What is the appropriate age for children to start martial arts
> >
> > focused on her works....my boy is not. His attention span, although
> > much better than a year ago....needs improvement.
> >
inclination
> this
> > crazy world of ours as well as keep herself in shape for the rest of
> her
> > life.
> >
> > I hope I made some sense in regards to what I'm looking for, so if
you
> > think you can give me some advise I would appreciate it very much.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>
> Regarding appropriate age...
>
> Your children are too young to study martial arts. Anybody who would
> take them as students is just out for your money. Enroll them when
they
> are about 8 or 9. Also, find a school that will take them on as
> and until they are about 17, their bodies have not yet fully
developed.
> less spar) until you are about 17.
>
pads
> on them and tell them to "go at it". Go at what? When you're 6, you
> don't have the attention span, body awareness or mental capacity to
> something for them to do - a positive and goal oriented activity -
they
> will go there and dress up and interact with the other kids, and get
> LOTS of exercies, and some discipline. It will also keep them out of
> off a 30 year old man who is trying to abduct them - it's just not
> realistic.
>
> Before you buy.
Thanks for all your input. It gives me a lot to work with.
The Taekwondo place I know of claims they work with kids at their own
pace and level. They do not push them or compare them with the better
ones and do not let them hurt themselves with kicks when they obviously
are not ready for. I explain the instructor that my girl is also
playing the piano and he told me they details about every child to make
sure they are protected.
Could that be a good sign?
On the other hand, they take kids as young as 2.
lfna...@my-deja.com
Eric, thanks for your input.
I agree with you. At the moment I am basically looking at martial arts
as a fun thing for my kids. Later I am hoping they will learn to
protect themselves and enjoy it as much as they can.
One more question I had, and I hope you will not laugh, is when girls
take martial arts do they become muscular? I just don't like that in
girls....................please don't laugh!!!
Thanks again
lfna...@my-deja.com
Figure it out wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:25:29 GMT, lfna...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >I am thinking of introducing my small children to martial arts.
> >The girl is 5 1/2 yo while the boy is 3 1/2 yo.
> >The two centers I have found in my area offer either Taekwon-Do or
> >Shaolin-Kenpo Karate.
> >My 3 yo boy is very energetic and athletic while my 5 1/2 yo girl is
> >not. They are both in great shape and eager to try anything we
expose
> >them to.
> >The questions I have are the following:
> >1) What is the appropriate age for children to start martial arts
>
> take them on, rest assured that what you are getting is an expensive,
> unethical babysitting service.
>
> >character traits.
>
>
inclination
> >so far for roughness?!
>
Thanks Eric.
I agree with you about the personal character traits. That's why both
kids, although 3 and 5 are very polite, very self assured and happy go
lucky kids. We never lose site of them....we have rules...LOL!
I was looking more in the long run to how best they can prepare
themselves in dealing with any rough situations if any come their way.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Eric Berge
> (remove _ for address)
>
> Therefore since the world has still
> Much good, but much less good than ill,
> I'd face it as a wise man would,
> o_ \ > And train for ill and not for good.
> <| ' ,_|
> ___/_>____o)____ - A.E. Housman, "A Shropshire
Lad"
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
Charos
>
> traditional jiu-jitsu? no way.
There's numerous forms...BJJ is quite good for self-defence, as is Small
Circle...
> >.for instance, in judo, a shoulder throw is executed by
> >placing the opponents armpit on your shoulder and throwing them over. In
> >jujitsu (from what I've seen) the same throw is done by placing the
> >opponents elbow on the shoulder and throwing...effectively breaking the
> >arm...someone may get up after a judo throw...but I don't care how tough
you
> >are, a broken arm is going to fuck with your ability to fight incredibly.
> >
>
> But i have not seen a stading armbreak work in a single nhb fight,and ive
seen
> thousands.
> It is a very lowe percentage move that traditional jujutsuan neve have
done
> against a restisting opponent.
I didn't quite get the last sentence...could you rephrase it?
> >Why not both? in all honesty I would rather my daughter learn how to
> >properly kick to the groin, strike to the eyes and throat etc. as a form
of
> >self defence
>
> Those strikes are low percentage too.
> This has been shown countless times in vale tudo and challenge matches.
> >.she may be a great grappler, but if she grabs a 250 pound
> >football player and tries to throw him, she's going to get fucked up.
>
> And if she kicks him in the nuts?
> He will kill her.
You ever been kicked in the nuts? LOL I dunno...I've seen guys take a solid
kick to the nuts and 90 percent ended up puking on the ground...
> At least if she knows judo she might be able to go along with an alluat
> willingly until she can sink a choke while he's unsuspecting.
I agree chokes are great for self-defence...but I still think that mixed
styles are superior...environment is so important...for instance...if I was
to have to fight someone in Judo, I would want to be in a very large area
with free movement...it's interesting to see the various styles in different
environments...we had a few Judo students
> >This
> >also depends on talents...a close friend of mine is a 17 year old female
and
> >has MIND-BLOWING legs...her kicks are incredibly powerful and fast (much
> >more-so than most men I've seen.) Now, I've seen her fight a guy who was
> >attacking her (it was at a concert...I was amazed when no one jumped
in...if
> >I hadn't been behind a veritable wall of people I would have helped) and
she
> >took this guy (easily twice her weight, and not in fat either) apart.
>
> How hard a woman kicks is not important.
Hmmm, tell that to the guy who gets kickes :)
> Steetfighters rush forward and wont stand toe-to-toe... there is too much
> forward pressure.
Once again...I feel mixed style would be best here...a few well placed
elbows to the head would take an opponent off balance and surprise him
enough to be able to do a very easy Osoto Gari or O-Ouchi Gari where if you
didn't do these elbows, a 250 pound man would likely be able to stay
standing due to sheer strength...
> There is one exchange and the woman is down.
Not my experience...
> Men have 3.5 times the adrenaline that woman have,weigh 40 pounds more and
owe
> 10% less of their bodyweight to fat.
True...
> >Did
> >it real quick too, one kick to the groin and the guy bent over and 2 well
> >placed kicks to the head and he was out cold.
>
> Are you sure this wasn't on Xena?
LMAO :) No...as I said...she's one of the strongest kickers I've ever
seen...I'm surprised the guys head didn't come off... ;)
> >So look around...for
> >self-defence, I personally would reccomend Small Circle Jujitsu (if you
can
> >find it) or just jujitsu...it seems to fucus on the ability to control
> >someone much larger than you with a minimum effort.
>
> Yes.
> Like Judo.
Judo is one... :) never denied that...but I still feel that if you can find
a place teaching a variety of techniques, from Judo to Boxing then you would
have a much broader range and a better chance of dealing with yourself in a
fight...try fighting a TWD practitioner in a closet or phone booth
sometime...becomes much different when they can't kick or punch
effectively...try fighting a Jodo practitioner in a football field...much
more difficult for them to handle if they can't get an effective grip on
you.
> >"Some of my friends, for instance, think these pro-life
> >people are annoying idiots. Other of my friends think
> >these pro-life people are evil fucks"
> >--Bill Hicks
>
> Didn't Bill Hicks die a slow painful death from lung cancer?
> LOL.
Not lung...ummmm, can't remember what type...
> You made my day.
> I bet there are alot of dead "fetuses" that want a word with him in hell.
I doubt he believed in hell. (I certainly don't...great scare tactic to keep
x-tians in line though)
> But then if he's lucky there is no god.
> And so he's just worm food.
> Either way.
> I'm smiling.
And if he's just worm food then he certainly doesn't care, does he? :)
Doesn't matter...he was funny as hell in his life...
--
*+_Charos_+*
Jim Phelps is a freak of nature, right Jim Phelps?
"Some of my friends, for instance, think these pro-life
people are annoying idiots. Other of my friends think
these pro-life people are evil fucks"
--Bill Hicks
Charos
> >quickly" (groin, etc.) and run away than trying to employ
> >grappling techniques.
>
> A little girl could not fight a man with grappling or striking.
> At all.
That's not the point though...the point would be to distract the man for a
long enough time to break free and get the fuck away yelling at the top of
her lungs...do whatever it takes to get away...poke his eyes out, spit in
his face, smack his ears, kick him in the balls...whatever it takes to get
out...no way she can possibly "take him out" but she certainly may make him
let go for a split second so she can get away...
> But when she grows to young womanhood she'll have an easier time in a date
rape
> situation if she knows Judo than TKD Karate or Kung Fu.
> By far easier.
And she'll have a better time than any of them if she knows large aspects of
all.
> >We have been doing a lot of groundfighting lately, and there is one
> >woman in our class. If she doesn't get the technique JUST RIGHT, she's
> >at a bad disadvantage because of her limited strength.
>
> Of course.
> But if she kickboxes a man,and hits him just right... and he's in a fould
mood.
> He'll ignore it.
That's true...but I don't care how small the girl is and how big the guy
is...if she claws his eyes out he's going to be distracted for a second...
> But if she triangle chokes him,he damn well better not ignore it.
It's incredible to see how fast chokes wor...if put in one (properly) you
have to get out within 2 seconds max...I've been choked out before and it
took a matter of 3 seconds before I couldn't do anything about it. I find
that artery chokes work much quicker than simply blocking the windpipe
(while that too is very devistating.)
> If a wioman without alot of grappling experience is attacked by a man,it
is
> ver likely that she will be on the ground immediatly.
True...especially if he tackles her.
> Which is why grappling for a woman is ideal... because
> 1) she may be able to escape a takedown attempt.
Unlikely, but possible.
> 2) if taken down,she may be able to perform an escape.
Agreed...but various styles of jujitsu are just as good at this.
> 3) It takes less strength to pull of an armbar on a guy who doesn't know
what
> one is,,than it takes for a woman to beat a man into submission.
And hurts like hell... :)
> Unfortuante,but true.
> Even with Judo she may get mauled,but at least she won't break her hip
when she
> thrown.
I think breakfalls should be manditory in virtually every art...they're
indespensable
> Judo makes for a tough gal.
And Karate, Jujitsu, Kenpo, Aikido etc. doesn't? :)
> >I would
> >think that the child's energy and evasive nature would maximize the
> >resources available to them in a bind.
>
> A judoka has a better chance of avoiding a grab and escaping.
True...but Jujitsu is just as proficient at this...
> > Just my worthles opinion.
>
> Your opinions aren't worthless.
> Just incorrect.
LOL :) that's rather cocky, isn't it? :)
> >You think? ;)
>
> No.
> Actually I am a Master of three seperate Kung Fu systems,and the founder
of my
> own style of Eclectic Karate(pattent pending)
Cool :)
Russ Rader
>Russ, I guess my main post gave some of you the impression I was only
>looking for real martial techniques at such an early age.
>As a matter of fact I am not. I know this is an impossiblity at this
>age...therefore, no matter where they are they never go out of my sight!
I was just making sure that you didn't have unrealistic expectations. Some
people have some strange ideas about the martial arts; I know I did. Too
much TV and movies, I guess.
>My question was more towards the idea of: Is it too early to start
>martial arts with them......and, which ones are more appropriate in the
>long run.....both as a detriment to others as well as self help
>(discipline, concentration, etc.)
It all depends on whether you can find a school run by the right people, who
are good with kids and know enough not to have them do stupid, injurious
exercises or techniques. If you can find such a school, I don't believe
it's too early to start off a fun exercise program with a little discipline.
(Don't expect them to become perfect little Stepford children because of the
discipline, though. Making them finish their homework before going to bed
will do as much for their discipline as martial arts will, in my opinion.)
The right school is more important than the right art. I wouldn't worry too
much about picking the perfect art, although I still think judo is one of
the better ones for kids. I also wouldn't worry too much about the school
you pick being the perfect school for the entire martial "career" of your
children. Not surprisingly, the guys who are really into the fighting
aspect of martial arts tend not to be into babysitting. But, not to worry.
At your childrens' current age, finding a school that is good with/for kids
is more important than finding a school whose instructors can kick butt. If
your children are still interested in martial arts once they are old enough,
mature enough, and responsible enough to deal with the moral consequences of
real fighting, then you can decide whether the school you have them enrolled
in is still the right one for them.
>As I have told you, both kids are very confident and quite happy with
>who they are. My 3 1/2 yo boy needs to learn about concentration and
>discipline while my 5 1/2 yo girl got it all.....except she is not as
>athletic as he is. She also plays piano, and I wonder if that could be
>a problem!?
I don't think they allow pianos in judo dojos, so it shouldn't be a problem.
;-)
Seriously, unless she is a little virtuoso, and has a promising career ahead
of her, I wouldn't worry about it. Kids get bumps and bruises, else they
wouldn't be kids. If she sprains a finger and can't play piano for a week,
oh well. The exercise will be good for her.
>Most of you have suggested they are too young to start martial arts.
>The 2 places I have mentioned to you take children as young as 2yo.
>Would that be an indication of money interest only, or could they be
>legitimate and do well with any age group?
It's hard to tell from here, I'm afraid. It depends on the individual
school. A few rip-off signs are:
1) Making you pay for a long term contract.
Just say no.
2) Very frequent rank tests with additional fees per test/belt.
Having 80 different belt colors is a rip-off tip-off. Since kiddie belts
don't mean much anyway (except to the kids), it is kind of pointless to have
them testing for new rank all the time. If you are paying for very frequent
tests, that's a good sign of a rip-off school.
3) Guaranteed black belt within a certain amount of time.
Nobody can guarantee that anyone can earn a black belt in a certain amount
of time, unless the black belt isn't worth anything. Some schools don't
even give out black belts to kids; they make them stop at brown, until they
are old enough to earn the black belt. Others have junior black belts, then
they can test for a real one when they get old enough.
Again, hope this helps.
Russ
Fu, Ren-Li
>> From: gic...@aol.com (Gichoke)
>>>
>>> 2) Which style is best at teaching both self defense and personal
>>> character traits.
>>
>> I would try Judo.It is traditional and orderly... somewhat formal,but still
>> fun.
>> And it is much more effective than TKD,Karate and Kung Fu for self-defense.
>>
>> Judo is like wrestling.Kds like to play so it is fun for them.
>>
>I agree, just take care that it is a somewhat decent judo club. I don't know
>about the quality of judo classes in the USA, but many here are just cheap
>baby-sits. Take them to a class where they want to learn your kids
>something, not just a class that wants to have as many kids as possible
>because it is their biggest revenue.
>
>Maybe someone can recommend a good judo class for these kids?
Hi. Actually don't let them learn Judo. Put them in a good Yiquan
school. Yiquan is known for beating Judo people. In fact, Colnel
Kenichi Sawai of the Japanese Army wrote a book on Yiquan and included
several stories on how it (and other traditional Chinese martial
artists) won in matches against Judo people.
This isn't to put down Judo people--judo is a fine art. I'm just
saying, what if the attacker also knows Judo?
Also there are several stories about children who knew Yiquan or a
similar art winning matches against adults. For example I heard about
a master who visited a town and was tossed into the water by a child
when the man wanted to punish the child for berating his martial arts.
-frl
storys
<lfna...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8dahig$rlc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <38F8982C...@swbell.net>,
>
> One more question I had, and I hope you will not laugh, is when girls
> take martial arts do they become muscular? I just don't like that in
> girls....................please don't laugh!!!
>
This won't happen unless you start feeding her anabolic steroids! Females
and young boys ) just don't have the right hormones to develop real
muscularity. You have Nothing to worry about. I can introduce you to world
champions & world class women and not one of them is what you would call
muscular. Many of them can kick butt in a big way & they are strong but
muscularity such as you are talking about just won't happen.
.......Tom......
Don Sverdrup
All of the throws and techniques in judo come from jujitsu. Not all jujitsu
schools may teach all the throws any more, but that is really a different
discussion.
Judo is intentionally a sport, designed to reduce injury.
Hmmm, I guess it's come to this:
I CHALLENGE GICHOKE!
I challenge Gi to learn a study some more about martial arts before rewriting judo
history! ;-)
Don
Gichoke wrote:
> >ms for kids 3 1/2 to 6 yo
> >From: "Charos" cha...@NOSPAMhome.com
> >Date: 4/15/00 0:55 AM EST
> >Message-id: <HvTJ4.193099$Hq3.4...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com>
>
Don Sverdrup
linked to older jujutsu?
That would be ninjutsu with the broken link.
I would be curious to know what span of decades you would suggest jujutsu was not
practiced.
Your sweeping statements on jujutsu are not entirely true. They are easy to make,
just not true from what I have experienced.
Maybe true from the jujutsu you have practiced?
Don
Gichoke wrote:
> True.But jujutsu went extinct in Japan for decades,then was recreated,Judo has
> a direct ling to jujutsu,ironically jujutsu does not.
Gichoke
>Date: 4/15/00 2:57 P
>
>One more question I had, and I hope you will not laugh, is when girls
>take martial arts do they become muscular?
Only if they are cycling anabolic steroids,eating alot and lifteing weights
with low reps and heavy weight.
Gi
Gichoke
>Date: 4/15/00 5:13 PM EST
>Message-id: <38f91523...@meganews.idirect.com>
>
>On Sat, 15 Apr 2000 10:53:29 GMT, kXe <k...@ju-jitsu-ky.cx> wrote:
>
>>> From: gic...@aol.com (Gichoke)
>>>>
>>>> 2) Which style is best at teaching both self defense and personal
>>>> character traits.
>>>
>>> I would try Judo.It is traditional and orderly... somewhat formal,but
>still
>>> fun.
>>> And it is much more effective than TKD,Karate and Kung Fu for
>self-defense.
>>>
>>> Judo is like wrestling.Kds like to play so it is fun for them.
>>>
>>I agree, just take care that it is a somewhat decent judo club. I don't know
>>about the quality of judo classes in the USA, but many here are just cheap
>>baby-sits. Take them to a class where they want to learn your kids
>>something, not just a class that wants to have as many kids as possible
>>because it is their biggest revenue.
>>
>>Maybe someone can recommend a good judo class for these kids?
>
>
>Hi. Actually don't let them learn Judo. Put them in a good Yiquan
>school. Yiquan is known for beating Judo people.
You are such a fucking uniformed fag you make me sick.
> In fact, Colnel
>Kenichi Sawai of the Japanese Army wrote a book on Yiquan and included
>several stories on how it (and other traditional Chinese martial
>artists) won in matches against Judo people.
And it was total bullshit,chinese grappling is stoneage backward nonsense,I
have never once seen a good grappler in a chinese style,nor has anyone ive ever
trained with mentioned one.
You are so totally clueless as to grappling....
shut the fuck up.
>
>This isn't to put down Judo people--judo is a fine art.
Then shut up.
>I'm just
>saying, what if the attacker also knows Judo?
So? what if he knows you chinese monkey grappling?
Judoka rarely mug people.
>
>Also there are several stories about children who knew Yiquan or a
>similar art winning matches against adults.
"stories"
there are many videos of judoka kicking ass.
>For example I heard about
>a master who visited a town and was tossed into the water by a child
>when the man wanted to punish the child for berating his martial arts.
>
>-frl
I "heard" of a guy with an 18 inch cock.
Gi
Gichoke
>Date: 4/15/00 3:37 PM EST
>Message-id: <8q4K4.195309$Hq3.4...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com>
>
>> >I would think a little girl would be better off utilizing "strike
>> >quickly" (groin, etc.) and run away than trying to employ
>> >grappling techniques.
>>
>> You would be wrong.
>> A little girl could not fight a man with grappling or striking.
>> At all.
>
>That's not the point though...the point would be to distract the man for a
>long enough time to break free and get the fuck away yelling at the top of
>her lungs...do whatever it takes to get away...poke his eyes out, spit in
>his face, smack his ears, kick him in the balls...whatever it takes to get
>out...no way she can possibly "take him out" but she certainly may make him
>let go for a split second so she can get away...
Grapplers are skilled in making people "let go"
Not strikers.
>
>> But when she grows to young womanhood she'll have an easier time in a date
>rape
>> situation if she knows Judo than TKD Karate or Kung Fu.
>> By far easier.
>
>And she'll have a better time than any of them if she knows large aspects of
>all.
No.TKD ,karate and kung fu skills have never evidenced any effectiveness whatso
ever is hundreds of nhb matches.
They arent fighting at all.
>
>> >We have been doing a lot of groundfighting lately, and there is one
>> >woman in our class. If she doesn't get the technique JUST RIGHT, she's
>> >at a bad disadvantage because of her limited strength.
>>
>> Of course.
>> But if she kickboxes a man,and hits him just right... and he's in a fould
>mood.
>> He'll ignore it.
>
>That's true...but I don't care how small the girl is and how big the guy
>is...if she claws his eyes out he's going to be distracted for a second...
>
How does Kung Fu or karate train "clawing eyes out"
They are no more adept at it than Judoka.
>
>> 2) if taken down,she may be able to perform an escape.
>
>Agreed...but various styles of jujitsu are just as good at this.
Only BJJ other jiu-jitsu sdtyles are modren creations of what the reinventers
of jujutsu thought the old masters used to do.
Jujutsu died out.Then it came back as a karate knock off.
Judo is more real jujutsu than "traditional" jujutsu currently is.
>Unfortuante,but true.
>> Even with Judo she may get mauled,but at least she won't break her hip
>when she
>> thrown.
>
>I think breakfalls should be manditory in virtually every art...they're
>indespensable
Learning breakfalls without actually sparring grappling wont help much.
>
>> Judo makes for a tough gal.
>
>And Karate, Jujitsu, Kenpo, Aikido etc. doesn't? :)
Correct.
Judo was great,then in 1947 the kodokan changed and made it a sport.
In brazil real judo stayed alive as BJJ.
But the world feel out of love with the new sport of judo,which opened the way
for the karate fad.Which isnt really nothing more than judo(from where karate
got the belts,words, gi,and most things) that is watered way down.
>
>> A judoka has a better chance of avoiding a grab and escaping.
>
>True...but Jujitsu is just as proficient at this...
>
No.Judoka dfo freepractice,most forms of jujutsu don't.
>
>> > Just my worthles opinion.
>>
>> Your opinions aren't worthless.
>> Just incorrect.
>
>LOL :) that's rather cocky, isn't it? :)
>
Perhaps.
Gi
Gichoke
>From: Don Sverdrup sver...@metriguard.com
>Date: 4/15/00 7:43 PM EST
>Message-id: <38F90CBA...@metriguard.com>
>
>Ummm, Gi, Do you know what Judo is?
Yes.
> Jujitsu made safe for a sport.
You are incorrect.
Judo "randori" is Jujutsu without the maiming stuff.
But nasty stuff are still taught in real Judo.
>All of the throws and techniques in judo come from jujitsu.
True.But jujutsu went extinct in Japan for decades,then was recreated,Judo has
a direct ling to jujutsu,ironically jujutsu does not.
>Judo is intentionally a sport, designed to reduce injury.
Judo is a sprt to most.But there are many schools where this is not true.
And Jujutsu has no sporting aspect... so they never see what reaaly works,and
the art has stagnated.
BTW,Jujutsu does not really spar with the nasty stuff any more than judoka,they
just stand there fake practicing,fake drills to fake injuries.
You dont even sweat.
>Hmmm, I guess it's come to this:
>I CHALLENGE GICHOKE!
>I challenge Gi to learn a study some more about martial arts before rewriting
>judo
>history! ;-)
>Don
Incidently I am a fountain of info on Judo history.
Most of it gleaned from Mark Tripp,the most knowledgeable true Judo out there.
Go to the www.Submissionfighting.com then to the underground,then to the Judo
part.
Look for tripps essays on true judo history.
Argue with him,if you disagree with me.
Gi
Charos
a
> >long enough time to break free and get the fuck away yelling at the top
of
> >her lungs...do whatever it takes to get away...poke his eyes out, spit in
> >his face, smack his ears, kick him in the balls...whatever it takes to
get
> >out...no way she can possibly "take him out" but she certainly may make
him
> >let go for a split second so she can get away...
>
> Grapplers are skilled in making people "let go"
> Not strikers.
There's many forms of grappling...Judo is one of many, and it isn't the
"best" or the "worst" either...either way...someone grabs me in a bear hug
and I could most certainly make them let go with strikes...what I'm saying
is, wouldn't it be more practical to have the grapling PLUS the striking at
your disposal?
> >And she'll have a better time than any of them if she knows large aspects
of
> >all.
>
> No.TKD ,karate and kung fu skills have never evidenced any effectiveness
whatso
> ever is hundreds of nhb matches.
> They arent fighting at all.
Did I list only Karate and Kung Fu? I would feel much more comfortable with
aspects of all...are you saying that Kung Fu and Karate have no useful
techniques whatsoever? That's laughable.
> >That's true...but I don't care how small the girl is and how big the guy
> >is...if she claws his eyes out he's going to be distracted for a
second...
> >
>
> How does Kung Fu or karate train "clawing eyes out"
> They are no more adept at it than Judoka.
Once again...I didn't say just Karate or Kung Fu...You're assuming that the
movements are only what they seem...you honestly think that ancient
Okinawan's would punch and pull the other hand back for no practical
purpose? The people that invented these arts were geniuses, they wouldn't
do stupid things like say "OK...now for a low block, you have to set up like
this...why? um...it looks cool"...I mean, c'mon...the set up had a very
practical and powerful purpose...I'm not saying that if one were to get into
a street fight you should immediately use only karate...it's many years
old...but to say that one can get no practical use out of it is silly.
> >Agreed...but various styles of jujitsu are just as good at this.
>
> Only BJJ other jiu-jitsu sdtyles are modren creations of what the
reinventers
> of jujutsu thought the old masters used to do.
Some are...others are alterations of jujitsu to make it more practical...I
can't remember who said it (I think it may have been Gichin Funokoshi) but
the saying goes something like "Martial arts must continually change because
the world continually changes"...completely true.
> Jujutsu died out.Then it came back as a karate knock off.
> Judo is more real jujutsu than "traditional" jujutsu currently is.
Judo is very nice in the way it executes it's moves compared to many styles
of Jujitsu...I've yet to see many Judo moves which deal specifically with
breaking limbs...it's a sport in reality...most styles of Jujitsu are not
(once again, I look to small circle)
> >I think breakfalls should be manditory in virtually every art...they're
> >indespensable
>
> Learning breakfalls without actually sparring grappling wont help much.
Bullshit...I do grapple in the style I currently practice (along with
striking) but breakfalls will help even someone who doesn't train...I'd
rather someone fall and know breakfalls then none no matter what, if any,
style they practice.
> >And Karate, Jujitsu, Kenpo, Aikido etc. doesn't? :)
>
> Correct.
LOL c'mon...now you're being silly.
> Judo was great,then in 1947 the kodokan changed and made it a sport.
> In brazil real judo stayed alive as BJJ.
> But the world feel out of love with the new sport of judo,which opened the
way
> for the karate fad.Which isnt really nothing more than judo(from where
karate
> got the belts,words, gi,and most things) that is watered way down.
You're going to some pretty crappy schools Gi
> >True...but Jujitsu is just as proficient at this...
> >
>
> No.Judoka dfo freepractice,most forms of jujutsu don't.
What of those that do?
> >LOL :) that's rather cocky, isn't it? :)
> >
>
> Perhaps.
Ah...I see...*smirk*
Mick Pope
> No.TKD ,karate and kung fu skills have never evidenced any effectiveness whatso
> ever is hundreds of nhb matches.
> They arent fighting at all.
What about a street situation?? We've been here before I think. If you
encounter someone who is not trained - then any training may be of use(?)
But, in an arena with someone who is trained, grappling skills are
essential.
> How does Kung Fu or karate train "clawing eyes out"
> They are no more adept at it than Judoka.
Otherwise none of us would have eyeballs, right! :)
> Only BJJ other jiu-jitsu sdtyles are modren creations of what the reinventers
> of jujutsu thought the old masters used to do.
> Jujutsu died out.Then it came back as a karate knock off.
> Judo is more real jujutsu than "traditional" jujutsu currently is.
That's a big call - what evidence do we have for the way trad JJ was
done? Battlefield stuff I guess???
> No.Judoka dfo freepractice,most forms of jujutsu don't.
This is true - I've seen some schools of JJ and all they did were kata! :(
No doubt they wouldn't know how to apply them. We do some multiple grab
situations in Hapkido - though nothing much on the ground! :( You soon
get the feel of what is working!
I did some late in my grading - you also get the feel of how tiring a real
situation could be!
Gichoke
>Date: 4/16/00 0:23 AM EST
>Message-id: <38F94E4B...@metriguard.com>
>
>Can you help me out on this one? Are you trying to say modern jujutsu is not
>linked to older jujutsu?
Pretty much,sure there are records of older jujutsu that were studied to
reinvent it,but yoy will find that the traditional "nihon" jujutsu's really
came about in the 60's mostly,jujutsu was known midcentury mostly as a
hisorical endeadvor,not something to be studied.
Judo completely and totally replaced jujutsu in Japan for quite awhile.
>I would be curious to know what span of decades you would suggest jujutsu was
>not
>practiced.
Jujutsu was falling fast as far back as 1900 in Japan.Just as it was being
discovered in america.From 1900 til the 60's jujutsu was all but totally
dead.Again,it was known as a peice of history,like Greek Pankration,which died
for centuries.
>Your sweeping statements on jujutsu are not entirely true.
Talk to the Japanese.Read Judo history.
How many Japanese nhb fighters do jujutsu? none.
The Japanese were surprised when Rickson Gracie won Japan Vale Tudo 94-95
because they thought jujutsu was dead.
Of course there always were people calling what they did jujutsu,but it was 99%
gone for decades.
Juijutsu was something the Japanese were no longer interested in after modern
weapons came to Japan.
Jujutsu means literally,non-resistant techniques... or compliant art...
whatever.
But if there is an english word that is most analagous with what jujutsu means
to the Japanese that word is...
fighting.
And fighting was considered silly,barbaric and obsolete.
Judo became the rage... it was first a "way". which could be sold to the
masses,then it mostly evolved(after 1947) quickly into a sport.
Not as compelling as a way,but more than pure fighting to the Japanese.
Japanese are very fadish and progressive.When jujutsu was coause for
embarressment to them they got rid of it within a few years.
> They are easy to make,
>just not true from what I have experienced.
There are a great many lies in matial art history.
Judo created modern martial arts,and every country in the east ripped it
off(like karate) and created there own B.S. historical precedent.
Then some countries ripped off the ripoffs... as when Korea did karate to form
several obvious frauds.
Or as is Sambo and BJJ did Judo.
Some arts,though admit their heritage.
The true history of the martial arts is not very exciting.
Every people had fighting techniques,many cultures created dances,stories and
the like around fighting and some warrior castes had complex philosophies..But
those aren't arts.
Judo said openly,that the martial way was about personal improvement,not
fighting.And that the practice of these arts was great pysical culture.
That we could train just to train.
This was a revolution.
Then Bruce Lee and his ilk saw how gullible we are over here.they attempted to
make their countries unrecorded,uncivilized, unimportant, unstandardized,
ineffective,legends ceremonial; dances and fighting techniques into martial
arts.
We were fooled.
The non japanese asian martial arts are no more martial arts than boxing or
wrestling.
>Maybe true from the jujutsu you have practiced?
And from the history that I have studied.
Gi
Gichoke
>Date: 4/16/00 0:13 AM EST
>Message-id:
><Pine.LNX.4.21.000416...@nswdelta.nsw.bom.gov.au>
>
>On 16 Apr 2000, Gichoke wrote:
>
>> No.TKD ,karate and kung fu skills have never evidenced any effectiveness
>whatso
>> ever is hundreds of nhb matches.
>> They arent fighting at all.
>
>What about a street situation??
If they can't win in Vale Tudo,why would you think they would win on the
street?
How can one prepare for the shear chaos of a random assault?
>What about a street situation?? We've been here before I think. If you
>encounter someone who is not trained - then any training may be of use(?)
But it may,in fact be a hiderance to use karate in a real fight.
The horse stance,upward blocks and chambered punches might actually cause you
to lose a fight you might otherwise have won.
>But, in an arena with someone who is trained, grappling skills are
>essential.
A cursory study of karate vs karate or kung fu vs kung fu in NHB shows that
when two traditional strikers fight,the fight still tends to ge to the
ground(although neither guy attempted a takedown) and the stronger guy usually
wins.
>
>> How does Kung Fu or karate train "clawing eyes out"
>> They are no more adept at it than Judoka.
>
>Otherwise none of us would have eyeballs, right! :)
yep.
>
>> Only BJJ other jiu-jitsu sdtyles are modren creations of what the
>reinventers
>> of jujutsu thought the old masters used to do.
>> Jujutsu died out.Then it came back as a karate knock off.
>> Judo is more real jujutsu than "traditional" jujutsu currently is.
>
>That's a big call - what evidence do we have for the way trad JJ was
>done?
Little to none.
Which is my point.
>Battlefield stuff I guess???
>
When hand-to-hand in a battle went away.So did jujutsu.
>
>This is true - I've seen some schools of JJ and all they did were kata! :(
>No doubt they wouldn't know how to apply them. We do some multiple grab
>situations in Hapkido - though nothing much on the ground! :( You soon
>get the feel of what is working!
>
I would be careful about trying something in a fight that I haven't used in as
close a simulation of a fight as can be reasonably attained.
>
>I did some late in my grading - you also get the feel of how tiring a real
>situation could be!
Lack of wind alone makes non randori trained fighters completely inneffective.
Even if they can do a triathalon they will tire in under a minute in a fight.
The mental drain isd fast and powerful.
They will be paralyzed in a fight.
Gi
Fu, Ren-Li
On 16 Apr 2000 02:21:28 GMT, gic...@aol.com (Gichoke) wrote:
>You are such a fucking uniformed fag you make me sick.
>shut the fuck up.
That's right, but they make themselves look like idiots on R.M.A.
Please keep in mind this is a thread about martial atrs for kids, not
a platform for your dirty mouth.
-frl
ThinWrists
Gaz
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Dr. W
<slasherhob...@operamail.com.invalid> wrote:
>FRL wrote:
>>That's right, but they make themselves look like idiots on R.M.A.
>>Please keep in mind this is a thread about martial atrs for kids, not
>>a platform for your dirty mouth.
>Fuck off Fu ya cunt! ;)
;) Groan.. Okay.. I CONCEDE.. You win. You have worn me down. I give
up. I won't even bother. ThinWrists, Gichoke, Manuel, the whole lot of
you win.
You and Gichoke win. I give up. I have been defeated.
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
wrote:
BTW that really was me. I post as Dr_W in another NG and forgot to
change my address back :)
-frl
kXe
damn it!
kXe
Gichoke
>Date: 4/16/00 2:16 PM EST
>Message-id: <38fa3d4...@meganews.idirect.com>
>
>
>On 16 Apr 2000 02:21:28 GMT, gic...@aol.com (Gichoke) wrote:
>>You are such a fucking uniformed fag you make me sick.
>>You are so totally clueless as to grappling....
>>shut the fuck up.
>>Judoka rarely mug people.
>
I ain't even a Judoka dumbass.
>Please keep in mind this is a thread about martial atrs for kids, not
>a platform for your dirty mouth.
>
>-frl
Thats why it was imappropriate for you to bring up your inane,petty
chinese-centric childishness.
Gi
Gichoke
>Date: 4/16/00 3:44 PM EST
>Message-id: <38fa5206...@meganews.idirect.com>
>
>On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:04:35 -0700, ThinWrists
><slasherhob...@operamail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>FRL wrote:
>>>a platform for your dirty mouth.
>
>
>up. I won't even bother. ThinWrists, Gichoke, Manuel, the whole lot of
>you win.
>
>You and Gichoke win. I give up. I have been defeated.
>
>-frl
>
Now roll over and take down your pants,bitch!!!
Gi
Manuel Moreno
kXe wrote:
> I find it highly dishonouring that i get no credit here!
>
> damn it!
>
> kXe
>
> > From: Dr...@w.nonexistant.org (Dr. W)
> > Organization: Internet Direct - http://www.mydirect.com
> > Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
> > Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:44:39 GMT
> > Subject: I give up. Gichoke wins.
> >
Manuel Moreno
"Fu, Ren-Li" wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:44:39 GMT, Dr...@w.nonexistant.org (Dr. W)
> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 14:04:35 -0700, ThinWrists
> ><slasherhob...@operamail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>FRL wrote:
> >>>That's right, but they make themselves look like idiots on R.M.A.
> >>>Please keep in mind this is a thread about martial atrs for kids, not
> >>>a platform for your dirty mouth.
> >
> >>Fuck off Fu ya cunt! ;)
> >
> >;) Groan.. Okay.. I CONCEDE.. You win. You have worn me down. I give
> >up. I won't even bother. ThinWrists, Gichoke, Manuel, the whole lot of
> >you win.
> >
> >You and Gichoke win. I give up. I have been defeated.
> >
> >-frl
>
JimS
You guys got a job lined up sometime soon?
I hope so. For your sake, and ours.
JS
Angie
> I am thinking of introducing my small children to martial arts.
> The girl is 5 1/2 yo while the boy is 3 1/2 yo.
> The two centers I have found in my area offer either Taekwon-Do or
> Shaolin-Kenpo Karate.
> My 3 yo boy is very energetic and athletic while my 5 1/2 yo girl is
> not. They are both in great shape and eager to try anything we expose
> them to.
> The questions I have are the following:
> 1) What is the appropriate age for children to start martial arts
Around 7. A few 5 1/2 yo's I've run across are exceptions to the rule,
but in general, it's too young.
> 2) Which style is best at teaching both self defense and personal
> character traits. My kids are very polite but while my girl is very
> focused on her works....my boy is not. His attention span, although
> much better than a year ago....needs improvement.
Of course it does! He's 3 1/2! The question it comes down to is whether
or not the courses are designed for children that age. And from most of
what I've seen, they are not. T-ball is good. Playing catch is good.
Swinging on the swingset is good. But at 3 1/2, martial arts are not
good.
> 3) Will my girl be able to start such a sport without much inclination
> so far for roughness?! I want her to be able to defend herself in this
> crazy world of ours as well as keep herself in shape for the rest of her
> life.
She can't defend herself at that age. I realize you are looking towards
the future, but you have no idea if your child[ren] will stick with MA for
more than a few months. If you are intent on starting the girl in MA,
start her in something she'll enjoy. Something where they roll around a
lot seems to be enjoyable for them.
> I hope I made some sense in regards to what I'm looking for, so if you
> think you can give me some advise I would appreciate it very much.
With regards to a question you posed later, no MA won't bulk your daughter up.
This topic has come up quite a bit (the kid part, not the bulky girl part
;) lately. I suggest taking a look at the archives at dejanews.
Angie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.
GOU RONIN®
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.
Strangley enough the two sometimes go hand in hand...
GOU RONIN® - The Unforgiven...
ICQ# - 49024165
http://members.tripod.com/~kenpo_ronin/dragon.html
www.freeyellow.com/members8/kenporonin/index.html
JimS
>
>> 2) Which style is best at teaching both self defense and personal
>> character traits. My kids are very polite but while my girl is very
>> focused on her works....my boy is not. His attention span, although
>> much better than a year ago....needs improvement.
Not a surprise. Small girls usually exhibit more maturity than small boys.
By the time they hit the teen years, it evens out. In other words, the maturity
level of either is a lost cause.
By the time they reach their 20s, the boys are more mature than the girls.
You can see it in the posts here :-))))))).
I rest my case.
JS
lfna...@my-deja.com
lgd...@nwu.edu (Angie) wrote:
> lfna...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > I am thinking of introducing my small children to martial arts.
> > The girl is 5 1/2 yo while the boy is 3 1/2 yo.
> > The two centers I have found in my area offer either Taekwon-Do or
> > Shaolin-Kenpo Karate.
> > My 3 yo boy is very energetic and athletic while my 5 1/2 yo girl is
> > not. They are both in great shape and eager to try anything we
expose
> > them to.
> > The questions I have are the following:
> > 1) What is the appropriate age for children to start martial arts
>
> Around 7. A few 5 1/2 yo's I've run across are exceptions to the
rule,
> but in general, it's too young.
>
> > character traits. My kids are very polite but while my girl is very
> > focused on her works....my boy is not. His attention span, although
> > much better than a year ago....needs improvement.
>
> Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.
Angie, thanks.
It sounds like my kids are too young to start MA.
I'll check the places I've talked about and see what they are about.
At the moment, all I'm really looking for is something fun with the idea
of MA in mind. Nothing stringent, nothing intense.
Later when they are at the right age I hope they will look at the sport
with interest and mae the best of it.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Angie
> Angie, thanks.
> It sounds like my kids are too young to start MA.
> I'll check the places I've talked about and see what they are about.
> At the moment, all I'm really looking for is something fun with the idea
> of MA in mind. Nothing stringent, nothing intense.
> Later when they are at the right age I hope they will look at the sport
> with interest and mae the best of it.
Maybe the thing to aim for at such a young age is to get them interested
in *activity*. Any activity you can do with them. Start playing catch.
Start bouncing basket balls. Start doing somersaults and cartwheels.
Jumping rope. A kid who enjoys being active is more likely to stay in any
sport or MA than one who's never really expended effort. It's also
healthy. =) That way, when your children find activities that they like,
they'll be a step ahead on the coordination game. Maybe it will be
martial arts, and maybe it won't be. There's plenty of time to get them
enrolled in a MA if that's what they want later on.
=)
Angie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chaos, panic, & disorder - my work here is done.
Eric D. Berge
Don Sverdrup wrote:
>
> Ummm, Gi, Do you know what Judo is? Jujitsu made safe for a sport.
Horseshit.
> All of the throws and techniques in judo come from jujitsu. Not all jujitsu
> schools may teach all the throws any more, but that is really a different
> discussion.
> Judo is intentionally a sport, designed to reduce injury.
More horseshit.
--
Eric Berge
---------------------------------------------------
Clay lies still, but blood's a rover
Breath's a ware that will not keep
Up, lad! When the journey's over
There'll be time enough to sleep.
- A.E.Housman, "Reveille"
---------------------------------------------------
Charos
jujitsu
> > schools may teach all the throws any more, but that is really a
different
> > discussion.
> > Judo is intentionally a sport, designed to reduce injury.
>
> More horseshit.
Wow...I'm convinced...
--
*+_Charos_+*
Jim Phelps is a freak of nature, right Jim Phelps?
"The fact is I get my data from GOD HIMSELF and am not supposed to even read
the responses!"
-Jaguar in a Usenet post to adp
Gichoke
>Date: 4/19/00 11:10 PM EST
>Message-id: <TqvL4.217729$Hq3.5...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com>
>
>> > All of the throws and techniques in judo come from jujitsu. Not all
>jujitsu
>> > schools may teach all the throws any more, but that is really a
>different
>> > discussion.
>> > Judo is intentionally a sport, designed to reduce injury.
>>
>> More horseshit.
>
>Wow...I'm convinced...
Kano took the dirty stuff out of randori and contest,not out of Judo.
Gi
GOU RONIN®
>Small girls usually exhibit more maturity than small boys.
Chr*st...I smell trumped up charges already with that
statement!