taekwondo vs. muay thai kick
qix
thai kick or another martial art low kick in the same fashion? (where the
kick makes contact, technique or anything else)
yeah it may be a stupid question but i'm asking because i don't know so
jhnwil876 don't write back to insult me and show how superior you are.
RobRPM2222
>thai kick or another martial art low kick in the same fashion? (where the
>kick makes contact, technique or anything else)
Yes, it differs. If by turning kick you are talking about roundhouse, I have
never heard of a "turning kick" in TKD. The TKD books I have by the Park
brothers do not include anything called a "turning kick"
I have done TKD ( for a very short period of time ) and an MMA-style art that
has Muay Thai as the striking basis for a longer period of time.
The Thai kick is more like someone swinging a baseball bat at your legs. You
impact with the shin, and the leg is straight on impact. I could kick harder
with a shorter amount of practice with the Thai kick, and IMO I would much
rather have someone kick me with the TKD kick than the Thai kick.
--
Rob Meyer | As Voltaire once said-
Kempo-Jujitsu, Sombo, | " Witty quotes mean nothing."
Goshinbudo Jujitsu ( MMA )
Gichoke
>
>does a low taekwondo turning kick differ in technique compared to say a muay
>thai kick or another martial art low kick in the same fashion? (where the
>kick makes contact, technique or anything else)
Thaistle kicks produce alot more damage because the foot is not chambered...
there is no snap.
There is a pull back in the opposite shoulder, the hips turn over and the knee
bends very little.
there is a pivot around the foot that remains on the floor, the fighter spins
his whole body and its weight causes the leg to spin, the kicking leg goes in a
wide arc which gives the foot more speed.
The middle of the shin impacts the thigh , ideally between the quad and the
hamstring muscles, preferably the shin is going minutely downward as it impacts
the thigh.
A TKD kick is more of a flicking thing, is sacrifices much power for the
ability to get the foot back faster, which can allow for multible quick kicks.
Gi
Dany Belinfante
RobRPM2222 <robrp...@aol.comInternet> schreef in berichtnieuws
20010814233232...@ng-cu1.aol.com...
> >does a low taekwondo turning kick differ in technique compared to say a
muay
> >thai kick or another martial art low kick in the same fashion? (where the
> >kick makes contact, technique or anything else)
>
> Yes, it differs. If by turning kick you are talking about roundhouse, I
have
> never heard of a "turning kick" in TKD. The TKD books I have by the Park
> brothers do not include anything called a "turning kick"
>
> I have done TKD ( for a very short period of time ) and an MMA-style art
that
> has Muay Thai as the striking basis for a longer period of time.
>
> The Thai kick is more like someone swinging a baseball bat at your legs.
You
> impact with the shin, and the leg is straight on impact.
Leg should not be straight at impact.
Dany
--
"You think that's air you're breathing?"
RobRPM2222
>Dany
it's straighter than a TKD kick.
Sospryly
> does a low taekwondo turning kick differ in technique compared to say a muay
> thai kick or another martial art low kick in the same fashion? (where the
> kick makes contact, technique or anything else)
Thai round kick discards the chambering of the kicking leg. There's
little bend of the knee. The contact point is along the shin and
against any body part of your adversary. Thai round kicks produce more
follow through than TLD or karate round kicks. The aim is to kick
through your opponent's arm, rib, leg, even if the kick misses- the
round kick will spin the kickker arounf 360 and back to fighting
stance. There are 3 Thai round kicks. One is 45 degrees upward
trajectory, usually this will hit the ribs of the adversary. There's
the 0 degree kick that's horisontal path. Lastly, there's the 45
degree downward path where the Thai round kick moves high and the
downward on the the adversary's leg or back of the head. The Thai
round kick also uses a sinking movement on hte supporting leg at
impact of the kick. That will add weight to the round kick. The
closest art that produces a similar kick is Kyokushin Karate because
that round kick is low, except the kick is chambered by bending the
knee. Hope this helps.
michael mcclain
slightly by comparison with TKD kicks.
mike
hal
wrote:
>>does a low taekwondo turning kick differ in technique compared to say a muay
>>thai kick or another martial art low kick in the same fashion? (where the
>>kick makes contact, technique or anything else)
>
>Yes, it differs.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people love to draw comparisons
about something they know nothing about.
Hal
Badger Jones
>A TKD kick is more of a flicking thing, is sacrifices much power for the
>ability to get the foot back faster, which can allow for multible quick kicks.
A former student of mine, now taking muay Thai, mentioned getting
blisters on the sole of his kicking foot. When they would practice
throwing as rapid a barrage of kicks as possible, the only way to get
the requisite force was to push off as hard as they could with the
kicking foot. Eventually, the high friction and high reps worked up
blisters.
Badger Jones
Chinese & Filipino Martial Arts
www.cyberus.ca/~badger
hal
Gi, do you actually know _anything_ about this?
Or are your meds just kicking in (pun intended) again?
Hal
>Gi
>
RobRPM2222
>about something they know nothing about.
>
>Hal
it never ceases to amaze me how Hal repeatedly denies the fact that TKD and
Muay Thai kicks are by and large different without having ANY experience in
Muay Thai.
Badger Jones
>On 15 Aug 2001 03:32:32 GMT, robrp...@aol.comInternet (RobRPM2222)
>wrote:
>
>>>does a low taekwondo turning kick differ in technique compared to say a muay
>>>thai kick or another martial art low kick in the same fashion? (where the
>>>kick makes contact, technique or anything else)
>>
>>Yes, it differs.
>
>It never ceases to amaze me how many people love to draw comparisons
>about something they know nothing about.
So don't keep us in suspense, tell us the difference.
hal
wrote:
>>It never ceases to amaze me how many people love to draw comparisons
>>about something they know nothing about.
>>
>>Hal
>
>it never ceases to amaze me how Hal repeatedly denies the fact that TKD and
>Muay Thai kicks are by and large different without having ANY experience in
>Muay Thai.
Rob, although I have never formally trained in MT, I have sparred with
those who have, and have seen numerous videos. The MT roundhouse is
nothing more than a low TKD RH. It makes me laugh to read these
boneheads describing the MT RH as so powerful because you pivot on the
standing foot, and put your hips into, and all that other crap that
our resident ignorami think is exclusive to MT. All kicking styles
teach the same thing. MT is nothing more than a watered-down
traditional style adapted to simplified full contact kick boxing. It
is highly simplified so people stupid enough to think they have to
fight full contact, and can't learn more than a couple of kicks, can
actually learn it.
Hal
hal
wrote:
>On 15 Aug 2001 03:35:35 GMT, gic...@aol.com (Gichoke) wrote:
>
>
>>A TKD kick is more of a flicking thing, is sacrifices much power for the
>>ability to get the foot back faster, which can allow for multible quick kicks.
>
>A former student of mine, now taking muay Thai, mentioned getting
>blisters on the sole of his kicking foot. When they would practice
>throwing as rapid a barrage of kicks as possible, the only way to get
>the requisite force was to push off as hard as they could with the
>kicking foot. Eventually, the high friction and high reps worked up
>blisters.
Yep, I lost count how many blisters I've had on my feet over the
years. Never practiced MT.
Go figure.
Hal
Badger Jones
Get better shoes?
RobRPM2222
>those who have, and have seen numerous videos.
Hal, I have actual experience in both TKD and styles that incorporate Muay
Thai, from actual people that formally teach both. I have done both a TKD and
Muay Thai roundhouse.
The MT roundhouse is
>nothing more than a low TKD RH.
LOL. the one where you chamber and flick your kick out?
It makes me laugh to read these
>boneheads describing the MT RH as so powerful because you pivot on the
>standing foot, and put your hips into, and all that other crap that
>our resident ignorami think is exclusive to MT. All kicking styles
>teach the same thing.
I would most disrespectfully disagree.
MT is nothing more than a watered-down
>traditional style adapted to simplified full contact kick boxing.
LOL. Nice troll, Hal. Forget the knees and elbows?
It
>is highly simplified so people stupid enough to think they have to
>fight full contact,
It is highly simplified because spinning 360 degree kicks have great difficulty
working in a real fight.
Now go back to your musical kama forms you guys mangled after you stole them
from Shotokan.
RobRPM2222
>from Shotokan.
I take this back, because it isn't fair to the few TKD people who actually do
decent sparring.
hal
wrote:
>On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:41:25 GMT, hal wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:06:25 GMT, badger...@deja.com (Badger Jones)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 15 Aug 2001 03:35:35 GMT, gic...@aol.com (Gichoke) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>A TKD kick is more of a flicking thing, is sacrifices much power for the
>>>>ability to get the foot back faster, which can allow for multible quick kicks.
>>>
>>>A former student of mine, now taking muay Thai, mentioned getting
>>>blisters on the sole of his kicking foot. When they would practice
>>>throwing as rapid a barrage of kicks as possible, the only way to get
>>>the requisite force was to push off as hard as they could with the
>>>kicking foot. Eventually, the high friction and high reps worked up
>>>blisters.
>>
>>Yep, I lost count how many blisters I've had on my feet over the
>>years. Never practiced MT.
>>
>>Go figure.
>
>Get better shoes?
MA's do it barefoot, bro.
Hal
hal
wrote:
>On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:43:01 GMT, hal wrote:
>
>>On 15 Aug 2001 03:32:32 GMT, robrp...@aol.comInternet (RobRPM2222)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>does a low taekwondo turning kick differ in technique compared to say a muay
>>>>thai kick or another martial art low kick in the same fashion? (where the
>>>>kick makes contact, technique or anything else)
>>>
>>>Yes, it differs.
>>
>>It never ceases to amaze me how many people love to draw comparisons
>>about something they know nothing about.
>
>So don't keep us in suspense, tell us the difference.
There isn't any.
Hal
hal
wrote:
>>Rob, although I have never formally trained in MT, I have sparred with
>>those who have, and have seen numerous videos.
>
>Hal, I have actual experience in both TKD and styles that incorporate Muay
>Thai, from actual people that formally teach both. I have done both a TKD and
>Muay Thai roundhouse.
>
>The MT roundhouse is
>>nothing more than a low TKD RH.
>
>LOL. the one where you chamber and flick your kick out?
Um, no. Chambering has it's uses and advantages. You don't have to
chamber a fast low RH, however. Not sure where this "flick" crap came
from though.
>
>It makes me laugh to read these
>>boneheads describing the MT RH as so powerful because you pivot on the
>>standing foot, and put your hips into, and all that other crap that
>>our resident ignorami think is exclusive to MT. All kicking styles
>>teach the same thing.
>
>I would most disrespectfully disagree.
>
>MT is nothing more than a watered-down
>>traditional style adapted to simplified full contact kick boxing.
>
>LOL. Nice troll, Hal. Forget the knees and elbows?
No, but I thought the discussion was about the RH. But since you
mention it, TKD uses knees and elbows extensively.
>
>It
>>is highly simplified so people stupid enough to think they have to
>>fight full contact,
>
>It is highly simplified because spinning 360 degree kicks have great difficulty
>working in a real fight.
Only an idiot would attempt a 360 in a real fight. I am not sure why
anyone would assume otherwise.
>
>Now go back to your musical kama forms you guys mangled after you stole them
>from Shotokan.
Um, what?
Hal
RobRPM2222
>chamber a fast low RH, however. Not sure where this "flick" crap came
>from though.
Because that's what it feels like. I've been kicked in the head by TKD guys
using TKD kicks in American Kickboxing style sparring. I just shrugged it off.
I just did some light contact sparring Muay Thai style yesterday, and someone
did a Thai shin to shin block on my Thai round kick. Now, that shit hurt. I had
to stop for a second.
>>LOL. Nice troll, Hal. Forget the knees and elbows?
>
>No, but I thought the discussion was about the RH. But since you
>mention it, TKD uses knees and elbows extensively.
LOL, what TKD class? Having them in old forms does not consitute "having" knees
and elbows in the art, at least if you want to apply them to a target.
Tell me, Hal, how often have you gotten someone into a clinch and tried to knee
them? Would you make the mistake of trying to grab someone from far outside to
get within knee range?
When's the last time you aimed some elbows at someone's head?
Wait, that would be never, because most TKD doesn't even allow punches to the
head, and either WTF or ITF allows knees and elbows in sparring.
Hal, you're being intellectually disingenuous.
TravIsGod
>from Shotokan.
>
>--
>Rob Meyer
Which itself was a watered-down, shitty version of Okinawan stuff.
Trav
RobRPM2222
>head, and either WTF or ITF allows knees and elbows in sparring.
NEITHER!!!!!
no spell check sucks.
hal
wrote:
>>Um, no. Chambering has it's uses and advantages. You don't have to
>>chamber a fast low RH, however. Not sure where this "flick" crap came
>>from though.
>
>Because that's what it feels like. I've been kicked in the head by TKD guys
>using TKD kicks in American Kickboxing style sparring. I just shrugged it off.
>I just did some light contact sparring Muay Thai style yesterday, and someone
>did a Thai shin to shin block on my Thai round kick. Now, that shit hurt. I had
>to stop for a second.
OK, so let me get this straight: you get kicked in the head by TKD
guys, and claim it doesn't hurt, and clash shins with a MT guy, and it
hurt (no DUH !), and so from that you draw sweeping generalizations.
Hmmm. Let's see, what is wrong with that?
Quite simple: the TKD guys probably weren't kicking full contact, or
you got lucky and moved back enough to lessen impact. Shin on shin
clashes hurt tremendously regardless of style.
But of course you know that, right Rob?
>
>>>LOL. Nice troll, Hal. Forget the knees and elbows?
>>
>>No, but I thought the discussion was about the RH. But since you
>>mention it, TKD uses knees and elbows extensively.
>
>LOL, what TKD class? Having them in old forms does not consitute "having" knees
>and elbows in the art, at least if you want to apply them to a target.
And why do you think that someone can learn them in forms, and then
cannot learn to apply them on the street?
>
>Tell me, Hal, how often have you gotten someone into a clinch and tried to knee
>them?
several times. ever get a knee in your quad? It really hurts.
> Would you make the mistake of trying to grab someone from far outside to
>get within knee range?
no
>
>When's the last time you aimed some elbows at someone's head?
you mean recently? In what environment? Classroom training,
sparring, street?
I've posted this before: how many elbow strikes can you name?
>
>Wait, that would be never, because most TKD doesn't even allow punches to the
>head, and either WTF or ITF allows knees and elbows in sparring.
You are talking now about controlled competitive sparring. You are
changing the subject. and the thread started comparing the supposed
superiority of the MT RH.
>
>Hal, you're being intellectually disingenuous.
Huh?
;)
Hal
ToddC
> On 17 Aug 2001 17:07:05 GMT, robrp...@aol.comInternet (RobRPM2222)
> wrote:
>
> >>It never ceases to amaze me how many people love to draw comparisons
> >>about something they know nothing about.
> >>
> >>Hal
> >
> >it never ceases to amaze me how Hal repeatedly denies the fact that TKD and
> >Muay Thai kicks are by and large different without having ANY experience in
> >Muay Thai.
>
> Rob, although I have never formally trained in MT, I have sparred with
> those who have, and have seen numerous videos. The MT roundhouse is
> nothing more than a low TKD RH. It makes me laugh to read these
> boneheads describing the MT RH as so powerful because you pivot on the
> standing foot, and put your hips into, and all that other crap that
> our resident ignorami think is exclusive to MT. All kicking styles
> teach the same thing.
Hmmmm. I'm not sure anybody says the power generator are unique to one
or the other. Having done BOTH MT and TKD I don't think they are at
all the same in many important respects though.
I think there is a bit more chambering, snap and rechambering in the
the TKD standard round kick. I had a devil of a time getting that out
of my RH for MT.
The TKD basic fighting stance is a bit lower and in most TKD schools
they teach a more sideways profile. If you try a MT kick this way -
with no snap back/re-chamber at the knee - the kick kind of fucks you
up in this stance. So you HAVE to snap it back to keep the stance.
And sure, I suppose the snapping variety makes it easier to transition
to multiple kicks with the same leg.
But I do think TKD basic round kick certainly CAN pack JUST as much
whallop at long and middle ranges in midline (upper thigh-torso)
attacks as MT Round kicks can.
My old TKD RH kicks - not having trained point sparring style - were
pretty powerful. The MT guys were actually impressed with them. I
can still so a pretty power full lead leg snap RH to somebodies thigh.
It is usually quite a surprise to MT guys. It flicks. But it flicks
HARD if you train it right.
I think the controversy is the possible telegraphing of the TKD
chamber and the use of the instep lacking as much edge and mass as the
MT shin.
But really it's a trade off. The snap back doesn't expose your back
if you miss, like it can in MT. And kicking with the instep can give
you a slighly longer reach. TKD snap kicks have a time and place. I
think it's point sparring that watered the kicks down.
TKD has such a unique array of kicks that many people from other
styles don't know one from the other. The droping round kick is VERY
similar to a MT neck kick, for instance. Similar follow though and
ideally you have to hit with the lower shin rather than instep just
like the MT version.
But the MT genereator start with hip movement, and the TKD generator
starts with knee movement. They BOTH torque the hips through the
target. The both use primarily hip for power. It's just that in some
TKD RH kicks the knee stops at the target (like a whip) and in MT it
always keeps digging through - like a "baseball bat".
Why poeple think one is inferior is beyond me. They are just diffeent
tools for different jobs. Forinstance I'd much rather use the TKD RH
if I was using the ball of the foot or toe of a boot.
MT is nothing more than a watered-down
> traditional style adapted to simplified full contact kick boxing. It
> is highly simplified so people stupid enough to think they have to
> fight full contact, and can't learn more than a couple of kicks, can
> actually learn it.
>
> Hal
Oh, Hal your just trying to piss people off agian. Cut that out.
I think the beauty of MT is it's sophistation with a smaller selection
of tools. It's an awsome tool set for an important area of fighting.
I recommend every kicker study it.
I use the MT RH kick more now as it has such an effective range - a
range that I spend more time in now (middle range) - and very
predictable a power radius. I can mitigate my exposure if I miss by
setting the range up with hands or snaping kicks (front leg thrust,
front leg round, front leg oblique/wave/cut, front leg crescent, and
front leg low 45 hook). I rarely miss this way. Well, sometimes.
The TKD kicks I NEVER use anymore are the spinning, turning or jump
kicks and the rear leg side/thrust kicks. I still train them for fun.
Rarely do I use the front leg side kick unless somebody chases me and
leaves the sweet spot open or backs up in open rythmic steps.
The only MT techniques I hate is the left switch kick - to maintain
the orthodox lead. I understand why the do it for the ring. But i's
not a very good idea if ANY aggressive grappling or groin shot are
allowed.
Hal, man your missing out. Take 6 months of MT. I bet you'll love it.
Carlucci
> does a low taekwondo turning kick differ in technique compared to say a
muay
> thai kick or another martial art low kick in the same fashion? (where the
> kick makes contact, technique or anything else)
The difference in power has little to do with chambering the kicking leg. It
as to do with the follow-through and hip motion involved. If you kick AT the
target using either the TKD or MT roundhouse kick, you will only slap/flick
it, and will not generate power at all. If you kick through it using either
the TKD or MT roundhouse kick, you will generate immense power.
The main difference in the kicks is that the TKD roundhouse kick chambers a
great deal the kicking leg, and extends it very rapidly to make contact.
This produces additional acceleration in the kick, and thus more force. The
MT roundhouse kick does not do this, but since it is more sturdy from being
in a more rigid position the full time through, it can deliver the force it
has extremely well. For power shots, you should be making contact with the
lower shins for BOTH the TKD and MT roundhouse kicks. Both kicks, when done
for power, should involve full rotation of the hips and the supporting foot.
The MT roundhouse kick comes off the ground starting with the hip and
travels in an arch to the target. The knee is bent ever so slightly becuse
of the way the human leg works (to try and force it to be 100% straight when
kicking would SEVERELY injure the knee on impact!). The TKD roundhouse kick
comes off the ground starting with the knee (chambering immediately). You
push off the ground with your kicking foot (ball of the foot, really) for
the extra speed, leading with your knee. In travels in an arch. It starts
going straight up, and then turns over in a curveto becomes sideways. It is
more arched than the MT movement, but it is really not all that different.
There is slightly less telegraphy with the TKD kick because it reaches the
"sideways" position (the angle at which contact is made) more quickly than
the MT roundhouse. When contact is made using the TKD roundhouse kick, the
leg extends into the target as the knee passes it. The hip continues to
travel to drive the kick into the target (much the same as the MT roundhouse
kick). The leg comes out of the target and re-chambers only when the "kick"
is done. OR, if you miss, it will probably look very similar to what happens
when an MT kicker misses, where their body turns around sort of. Biggest
difference would be that the MT kicker would keep a straight leg as his body
turns, wheras the TKD kicker would re-chamber as his body turns. Each way is
optimal for setting up for another kick of the same variety when the body
returns to its original place.
The severe pull-back on the TKD roundhouse kick is ONLY done when the kick
is primarily for speed vs. power. This is the tell-tale roundhouse of
Olympic style sparring. It is not the same roundhouse kick that is used for
real power in TKD. The purpose of this is to make the slapping sound that is
necessary for judges to score points (the POP that is heard when you kick
something and pull back immediately is very loud when compared to the THUD
that is heard when you put everything into the kick and go for power). The
severe pull-back allows for maximum speed, minimum telegraphy, best chances
for recovery from a miss, and the best chances for a follow-up technique. By
NOT letting the hips swing around and the body to turn, it is possible to
kick with alternate legs VERY quickly. Understand, however, that this is for
Olympic style sparring only. Not to be confused with the roundhouse kick
that is done for power.
I would say that the single BIGGEST difference in the TKD and MT roundhouse
kicks for power is in the arch that they make when moving towards the
target. The MT roundhouse is a much more gradually curved arch. It comes off
the ground wider, gets "sideways" for longer period of time. It can be very
fast, and often is, this is a fact. The TKD roundhouse has a more sharply
curved arch, because it comes off the ground straight, turns over quickly
(in relation the MT kick. It turns over in a much more gradual arch in
relation to the TKD kick that is done for show/forms, which comes straight
up, has an almost 90* angle when it turns over in a split-second, and then
goes sideways), and is sideways for less time simply because there is less
distance to travel once it becomes sideways.
Each type of roundhouse has its uses. The TKD roundhouse is better
close-range because it allows you to bring the kick up quickly, using little
room.The MT kick in close-range would come too wide and the defender would
more easily step inside the kick because of its wide arch. The MT kick is
better long-range because you can deliver a lot of power without question
when you make use of the wide, sweeping arch of the kick. The TKD kick is
harder to make power with consistantly because you have to work harder at
it. The MT kick is a no-brainer in this fashion.
Luc...@Prodigy.net
If you want to be a winner, all you have to give is everything you've got.
RobRPM2222
>guys, and claim it doesn't hurt, and clash shins with a MT guy, and it
>hurt (no DUH !), and so from that you draw sweeping generalizations.
>Hmmm. Let's see, what is wrong with that?
>
>Quite simple: the TKD guys probably weren't kicking full contact,
Because they trained for flicky kick WTF TKD sparring where you can too often
get away with barely touching people, hal.
You fight how you spar, for the most part. At least in my experience
or
>you got lucky and moved back enough to lessen impact.
It happened multiple times, and I didn't have much head movement back then.
Still not that great at it now.
Shin on shin
>clashes hurt tremendously regardless of style.
>
>But of course you know that, right Rob?
Yup. But MT has conditioning to help you with that.
>>LOL, what TKD class? Having them in old forms does not consitute "having"
>knees
>>and elbows in the art, at least if you want to apply them to a target.
>
>And why do you think that someone can learn them in forms, and then
>cannot learn to apply them on the street?
The same reason medical schools don't have med students doing operations after
they do a "shadow operation" on air. If they want to learn how to apply the
skill in a dynamic situation, they should practice it at least part of the time
on something approaching what they would have to use it on in real life. That
means cadavers. For martial arts, that means using full contact as much stuff
as possible allowed sparring, with as limited safety gear as practical and
safe, as part of the training. Add in Adrenal-Stress stuff if you are training
for the street.
Why people think the martial arts are that vastly different in most respects
from other physical skills always boggles my mind. You don't give a fighter
pilot a jet because he can simulate moving a stick in the air.
Shadowboxing makes up a part of training, but relying on that alone for a fight
would be suicide.
>>
>>Tell me, Hal, how often have you gotten someone into a clinch and tried to
>knee
>>them?
>
>several times. ever get a knee in your quad? It really hurts.
happened to a guy grappling last time in class.
Now, was it illegal, or did it happen because it was allowed in sparring?
>>When's the last time you aimed some elbows at someone's head?
>
>you mean recently? In what environment? Classroom training,
>sparring, street?
>
>I've posted this before: how many elbow strikes can you name?
side, downward ( nasty stuff, ) and upward ( like an uppercut. )
And I don't recall you posting that last time we had this debate.
>>
>>Wait, that would be never, because most TKD doesn't even allow punches to
>the
>>head, and either WTF or ITF allows knees and elbows in sparring.
>
>You are talking now about controlled competitive sparring. You are
>changing the subject. and the thread started comparing the supposed
>superiority of the MT RH.
No, the thread started as someone asking if the TKD and MT roundhouses were
different. Multiple people with training in both said yes. Then it became, " no
they can't be different. " Then I asked you why, and you give me the same
excuse you did last time, your excuse was as usual bogus.
So now I have to run down TKD, for the glory of the Thailateral Commission.
;)
nah. But seriously, I really mean it when I said I would rather be kicked by a
TKD guy than a MT guy. That's just my experience.
LIBERATOR
>striking basis for a longer period of time.
>
> The Thai kick is more like someone swinging a baseball bat at your legs. You
> impact with the shin, and the leg is straight on impact. I could kick harder
> with a shorter amount of practice with the Thai kick, and IMO I would much
> rather have someone kick me with the TKD kick than the Thai kick.
Your last sentence clearly demonstrates you don't understand that the
body-consciousness of a human can be highly evolved with a fantastic
return in stunning accuracy and power in using the body for combat.
But that's common for MT people, they're dumb and they think they're
smart, and they also think there's quality in their actions consisting
of the two qualities I just mentioned - accuracy and power.
Again, we all know by watching the clips of the Korean Tigers that MT
doesn't stand a chance against TKD due to the evolution provided
through curriculum in WTF/TKD schools. ITF TKD is maybe what you're
using as a reference, of which I'd understand why you babbled this
stupid crap about MT being superior to TKD.
Either way, MT knows WTF/USTU TKD will destroy it and any practitioner
of it. Ask Rick Roufus, he's scared of Chos TKD in Milwaukee. Any
questions?
Also, note that when you have no accuracy you have to use your shin
instead of your foot, cuz you can't tune in your opponent to get him
with your foot. Even when MT land leg kicks, they're ineffective
clearly evident by the opponent still standing still throwing actions
at YOU, and that factual gift (.mpeg) given to the newsgroup by
someone claiming MT is better. MT guys are better at getting hit due
to ineffective mobility & their inaccuracy, they have to get hit to
hit.
The Chain Gang
> thai kick or another martial art low kick in the same fashion? (where the
> kick makes contact, technique or anything else)
>
> jhnwil876 don't write back to insult me and show how superior you are.
The object of the taekwondo kick is to score a point. The object of
the muay thai kick is to hurt. Yes they are different.
Chris Newton
> does a low taekwondo turning kick differ in technique
> compared to say a muay thai kick or another martial
> art low kick in the same fashion? (where the
> kick makes contact, technique or anything else)
There are quite big differences in technique. What it boils down to in
tactics is that the Thai style kick hits significantly harder. However,
because it has a lot of momentum behind it, it's more of a liability if
you miss. It's not uncommon for someone to spin right around after
missing a Thai round kick, exposing their back. Also, if they're kicking
higher and get caught, they're history.
The Taekwon-do style kick, on the other hand, uses a somewhat different
action, most notably in the chambering, and in hitting with the instep
or ball of the foot rather than the shin. The result is that it has less
raw power, though it can still do some serious damage. In its favour, it
works better in combination with other kicks, and leaves you more chance
to recover if you miss. (The same goes for the kicks from many karate
styles, Savate, and various other arts, most of which adopt a similar
style.)
Basically, the two types of kick go with different fighting styles. If
you're a "big hitter", the kind of person who punches like a boxer, then
the Thai kick probably suits you best. If you're a "fast hands" kind of
guy, probably you'll feel more comfortable with the other style,
particularly if you're also wearing shoes.
Personally, I find the "big hitter" approach more my style, but then I'm
a grappler at heart. I don't mind missing and winding up in close, and
if I get one good hit in, *I* am going to close in for a finish, rather
than look to throw any sort of striking combo. YMMV, of course.
Cheers,
Chris
MDKGeary
said, Muy Thai's roundhouse is much like a baseball bat, relying on momentum
and weight to do damage. TKD's roundhouse is thrown from the hip, using the
hip to create the power, which is much safer and efficient than a muy thai
kick which usually takes longer and can throw you off balance if you miss.
Also, you will do more damage to your shin if it is blocked appropriately
(speaking of the thai kick). Also, TKD doesn't have a kick that goes below
the waist, TKD was used to kick soldiers off horses, that is the reason why
all the flying jumping, sliding, etc kicks are taught. Any kick below the
belt in TKD was made specifically for self defense and has developed more
recently.
KMG
KMG
"qix" <_qi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FNle7.8182$hO5.2...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> does a low taekwondo turning kick differ in technique compared to say a
muay
> thai kick or another martial art low kick in the same fashion? (where the
> kick makes contact, technique or anything else)
>
Peter Blackwell
> TKD's roundhouse and Muy Thai's roundhouse are totally different. Like
Rob
> said, Muy Thai's roundhouse is much like a baseball bat, relying on
momentum
> and weight to do damage. TKD's roundhouse is thrown from the hip, using
the
> hip to create the power, which is much safer and efficient than a muy thai
> kick which usually takes longer and can throw you off balance if you miss.
Yeah but it's quite a bit more powerful
> Also, you will do more damage to your shin if it is blocked appropriately
> (speaking of the thai kick).
This is why you condition your shins first. Then the technique is lethal.
> Also, TKD doesn't have a kick that goes below
> the waist,
Wrong. That might only be true in WTF TKD, but not in ITF.
> TKD was used to kick soldiers off horses, that is the reason why
> all the flying jumping, sliding, etc kicks are taught.
Wrong again. TKD was developed last century when kicking people off horses
wasn't exactly a priority. It may have been derived from martial arts that
developed high/flying kicks for kicking people off horses (unlikely though)
but TKD was not developed with that in mind.
> Any kick below the
> belt in TKD was made specifically for self defense and has developed more
> recently.
Low kicks have been in TKD from the outset.
--
Peter Blackwell
p.l.blackwell<at>btinternet.com
In an interstellar burst
I'm back to save the universe
MDKGeary
century???? HAHAHA!!!! TKD is over 2000 years old! I'm not talking sport
TKD, go catch up on your history, then come back and talk with me!
Also, if you want to speak of conditioning your shins in muy thai, you
obviously haven't seen the video of a blocked muy thai kick where the
supposedly "conditioned" and "professional" athlete broke his shin in half!
Condition that!
KMG
"Peter Blackwell" <nos...@please.com> wrote in message
news:99907549...@eos.uk.clara.net...
Badger Jones
<mdkg...@atl.mediaone.net> wrote:
>Hahaha...you are funny Peter Blackwell. TKD developed in the last
>century???? HAHAHA!!!! TKD is over 2000 years old! I'm not talking sport
>TKD, go catch up on your history, then come back and talk with me!
Even funnier. Tae Kwon Do was created in what, 1949? when Choi and
his bunch amalgamated. The frequent, and erroneous, claims that it
has been around since man walked upright are attempts by the Koreans
to distance it from the Japanese arts from which they borrowed
heavily.
Kallini
<mdkg...@atl.mediaone.net> wrote:
>Hahaha...you are funny Peter Blackwell. TKD developed in the last
>century???? HAHAHA!!!! TKD is over 2000 years old! I'm not talking sport
>TKD, go catch up on your history, then come back and talk with me!
Oh boy. Between this and believing the myth about "kicking cavalry off
horses" maybe you oughta quit while you're ahead.
>Also, if you want to speak of conditioning your shins in muy thai, you
>obviously haven't seen the video of a blocked muy thai kick where the
>supposedly "conditioned" and "professional" athlete broke his shin in half!
>Condition that!
Yeah, and we all know that that happens all the time, right? Plus, you
know the guy's medical condition at the time of the fight too, right?
The reason that break is notable and got so much attention is because
it's an anomaly, brainiac.
Kallini
Peter Blackwell
news:3b8d09b7....@news.storm.ca...
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:56:53 GMT, "MDKGeary"
> <mdkg...@atl.mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> >Hahaha...you are funny Peter Blackwell. TKD developed in the last
> >century???? HAHAHA!!!! TKD is over 2000 years old! I'm not talking
sport
> >TKD, go catch up on your history, then come back and talk with me!
>
> Even funnier. Tae Kwon Do was created in what, 1949? when Choi and
> his bunch amalgamated.
That's what I thought.
ToddC
> Hahaha...you are funny Peter Blackwell. TKD developed in the last
> century???? HAHAHA!!!! TKD is over 2000 years old! I'm not talking sport
> TKD, go catch up on your history, then come back and talk with me!
Ok. Prove it.
This is such an old chestnut! I can't believe it still goes around.
YOU better go catch up, there sparky. There is zero credible evidence
that Tae Kwon Do existed before the 1940's. No credible historian has
EVER found this TKD as anchient proof TKD zealots are always on about.
There are Korean Sport/Cultural practices that involved kicking but
they themselves can be traced to other chinese arts. Hardly TKD.
And don't go into some bullshit about some 1000 yo vase with pictures
on it. Pictures of vases showing kicks is not evidence of anything but
that people had legs and kicked.
If you have some real proof, well, gee...don't hold back let's see it.
I'd love to be wrong.
> Also, if you want to speak of conditioning your shins in muy thai, you
> obviously haven't seen the video of a blocked muy thai kick where the
> supposedly "conditioned" and "professional" athlete broke his shin in half!
> Condition that!
As opposed to the dozens of videos showing TKD blackbelts in NHB
fights getting the shit beat out of them and NEVER landing a single
kick? What's your point?
Other that expressing that you have an irrational hard-on for TKD.
.B.
ToddC <todd.chr...@hunt.ddbdirect.com> wrote in message
news:8fbddc60.0108...@posting.google.com...
>
> As opposed to the dozens of videos showing TKD blackbelts in NHB
> fights getting the shit beat out of them and NEVER landing a single
> kick? What's your point?
> Other that expressing that you have an irrational hard-on for TKD.
One thing that has puzzled me in my (somewhat) limited NHB viewing is why do
the strikers keep forgetting to strike? Even when just standing or when the
"grappler" (or hell even another striker) is walking in, they let them
almost always without a punch or kick.
Gichoke
>
>Hahaha...you are funny Peter Blackwell. TKD developed in the last
>century???? HAHAHA!!!! TKD is over 2000 years old!
So is the easter bunny.
Gi
Gichoke
>
>One thing that has puzzled me in my (somewhat) limited NHB viewing is why do
>the strikers keep forgetting to strike? Even when just standing or when the
>"grappler" (or hell even another striker) is walking in, they let them
>almost always without a punch or kick.
If we stand about 4 feet apart and I explode at you... you will not have a blow
lined up to strike at the unexpected angle I enter at.
AND you will realise this and try to move with your 1 second of time.
That is in the case of an ideal entry for me.
But often times a wrestler come in so fast that the striker things to strike
but just hasnt the time to get one off before he's caught.
If a non baseball player faced Randy Johnson and Randy threw a fastball,I bet
Joe Schmo either wouldnt swing, or he would start swining as the ball hit the
catchers mitt.
Gi
.B.
Gichoke <gic...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010829141200...@mb-dd.aol.com...
> >m: ".B." jage...@surewest.net
>
> >One thing that has puzzled me in my (somewhat) limited NHB viewing is why
do
> >the strikers keep forgetting to strike? Even when just standing or when
the
> >"grappler" (or hell even another striker) is walking in, they let them
> >almost always without a punch or kick.
>
> If we stand about 4 feet apart and I explode at you... you will not have a
blow
> lined up to strike at the unexpected angle I enter at.
> AND you will realise this and try to move with your 1 second of time.
> That is in the case of an ideal entry for me.
Agreed.
> But often times a wrestler come in so fast that the striker things to
strike
> but just hasnt the time to get one off before he's caught.
Yes, seen that too.
> If a non baseball player faced Randy Johnson and Randy threw a fastball,I
bet
> Joe Schmo either wouldnt swing, or he would start swining as the ball hit
the
> catchers mitt.
>
Again, agreed.
I probably should have been a bit more specific. Excluding the above, which
I've already agreed to, I've seen where the strikers just watch the wrestler
right in from across the ring. I've even seen it within the same fight
after being stood up (was an IFC fight). Maybe it's like being in the
"hotseat" on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire", but it seems to me that the
striker should know what is coming and at least do _something_.
MDKGeary
in NHB, I'm not too impressed with any of the fighters except some of the
BJJ fighters. Those people that claim to have taken TKD also list 12 other
martial arts they are black belts in...give me a break, open your eyes, NHB
isnt martial arts, and if it is, find one TKD person that has gotten their
ass beat and show me his Kuukiwan Certificate stating he is a black belt!!
KMG
".B." <jage...@surewest.net> wrote in message
news:toqb27c...@corp.supernews.com...
Gichoke
>
>dozens of videos of TKD people getting their ass beat. From what I've seen
>in NHB, I'm not too impressed with any of the fighters except some of the
>BJJ fighters. Those people that claim to have taken TKD also list 12 other
>martial arts they are black belts in...give me a break, open your eyes, NHB
>isnt martial arts, and if it is, find one TKD person that has gotten their
>ass beat and show me his Kuukiwan Certificate stating he is a black belt!!
Kukkukwon members are free to enter MMA, and if successful, they would be paid
handsomely.
I taught grappling at a VERY successful TKD dojang rthat turns out champions, I
would utterly crush any of their students and I would absolutly LOVE to get a
TKD world champion in the ring.
Gi
Starr69
can't believe some of you call yourselves martial artists. If you
were "real
martial artists then you would respect each others art for what it
is, instead of insulting it. Of course, you can debate each others
techniques/styles all you want, that is what we are here for. But to
put it down it wrong. For the record, I train in Muay Thai and BJJ.
So, of course I think Muay Thai is the most superior stand up fighting
form there is. But that is not to say that I will put down TKD, I
love to learn other arts techniques to see what would be effective and
not. And for the troll who said that Muay Thai practioners are dumb
ass', what is your problem? First of all, say that to one of there
faces you fake KEYBOARD Warrior. Then we will see who is the dumb
one. Anyways, I have respect for all fighting arts/ martial arts,
whatever the hell you want to call them. You guys should to, I'm all
for debating the effectiveness of certain thechniques, but please do
so with respect for each other.
As far as the subject of the post goes, I can detail how a Muay Thai
swing kick works mechanically (for right-handed people);
1) Basic Thai Stance, left foot pretty much in the front and middle of
your body w/ knees slightly bent, right leg straight and out (but feet
should be square w/ body
2)When you start kick, knee will bend a bit as you start swing
3)With left foot you start to pivot and raise it (ending up on your
toes by the end)
4)You are trying to go through you target (in this case between knee
and hip), at point of impact your leg should be pretty much staright
(although, not fully)
5)After you contact, back in same position (you move almost exactly
the same pattern but backwards)
6)Tell the guy you hit not to worry it will only feel like that for a
few days and colour should return to his thigh eventually
**All this will keeping your hands up, not to leave yourself open to
strikes
ToddC
> dozens of videos of TKD people getting their ass beat. From what I've seen
> in NHB, I'm not too impressed with any of the fighters except some of the
> BJJ fighters. Those people that claim to have taken TKD also list 12 other
> martial arts they are black belts in...give me a break, open your eyes, NHB
> isnt martial arts, and if it is, find one TKD person that has gotten their
> ass beat and show me his Kuukiwan Certificate stating he is a black belt!!
>
> KMG
So many things.
Your implied logic here:
Logical Falacy #1
From what you've seen? What Vale Tudo, NHB, UFC and, PRIDE matches
have you seen? Your sample must be small. Among other things.
Logical Falacy #2
Your impression of the fighters means little.
Have you fought open NHB rules full contact? Do you know what
constitutes a good open rules fighter - other than involving some
purist TKD Kuukiwan fantasy thing.
The fact is fighters lost when trying TKD alone. Fact. BB tkd'ers were
the ones in the ring. Not the Korean Tigers - who perhaps have had the
good sense to stay out when they know they will get creamed. Being
the very best that TKD had to offer means little when you wont step up
to the plate but willingly leave it to your second string to do your
fighting.
Logical Falacy #3
Fighters that have studied more than one art can't possibly be real
and must ONLY have a TKD BB. * [ Gee, I better give mine back.]
Logical Falacy #4
uuuuuh...
So your litmus test for a qualified "Martial Art and Artist" is a
certificate from a Korean Govt. sponsored sporting commission and
academy? [Again, I'd better give mine back]
* Most TKD people who went back to NHB - after attempting to use TKD
and losing (and THEY ALL LOST at first) - then went and crosstrained.
It was only prudent since they wanted to win. Others who lost and
didn't cross-train NEVER CAME BACK. Let me ask you where are these
Kuukiwan Atomic Supermen? Why wont THEY settle this debate themselves?
---------
The only trueism logically correct would be that NHB is not a martial
art. Yes NHB is not a martial art.
NHB are open rules empty hand contests for thoes that fancy themselves
fighters and often involves Martial Artists. And it appears those with
Mixed Martial Arts backgrounds fare the best.
Ok. I will list TKD BB (it will take research about the Kuukiwan
thing) that competed in NHB if (Note to Gi: Help me out here.) , in
the mean time, YOU answer the question you so deftly weasiled out of
in the orininal post of mine.
Where is the evidence that TKD is 5000 years old? Cite please.
.B.
Starr69 <big_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9cf2cc6b.01083...@posting.google.com...
> This is my first post ....
>First of all, say that to one of there faces you fake KEYBOARD Warrior.
>You guys should to, I'm all
> for debating the effectiveness of certain thechniques, but please do
> so with respect for each other.
If you are going to chide the group for not respecting each other, you
should probably make sure you don't do it in the same post.
Dallas Madill
> >You guys should to, I'm all
> > for debating the effectiveness of certain thechniques, but please do
> > so with respect for each other.
>
>
> If you are going to chide the group for not respecting each other, you
> should probably make sure you don't do it in the same post.
>
Wow- this shit is tooooo funny. It seems that anything anyone is saying at
this point will be taken as an insult
so just shhut the hell up.- :)
Matthew Weigel
>Oh boy. Between this and believing the myth about "kicking cavalry off
>horses" maybe you oughta quit while you're ahead.
Or at least, not too drastically behind.
Hmmm... maybe "not so ridiculously far behind that we've not seen the
likes of it before" is better.
--
Matthew Weigel
Research Systems Programmer
mcwe...@cs.cmu.edu
Gichoke
>
>Ok. I will list TKD BB (it will take research about the Kuukiwan
>thing) that competed in NHB if (Note to Gi: Help me out here.) ,
Pat Smith, Cal Worsham, Mo Smith, Bas Rutten, several guys who fought in the
old Russian NHB tapes, several in the BVT's.
And most notably...
Jeremy Bullock who took on Travis Fulton in Extreme Challenge 22.
(It should be noted that Mo Smith now disavoes TKD and calls it a joke)
Gi
.B.
Dallas Madill <dma...@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:nRAj7.7741$JH4.1...@news1.telusplanet.net...
What the hell are you talking about? I'm not insulted; just pointing out
his bad form and reveling in the irony.
Now what does offend me is your use of smileys. ;-)
Mike
> Hahaha...you are funny Peter Blackwell. TKD developed in the last
> century???? HAHAHA!!!! TKD is over 2000 years old! I'm not talking sport
> TKD, go catch up on your history, then come back and talk with me!
OK, here goes...
<flipping through MA history book>
Ah, here it is! TKD was invented in the 50's by a Korean general who
studied Shotokan.
And the first quiz will be on Tuesday...
Mike
TravIsGod
>Alright, you guys are f*@ked up! This is my first post here and I
>can't believe some of you call yourselves martial artists. If you
>were "real
> martial artists then you would respect each others art for what it
>is, instead of insulting it.
I respect TKD for being a hangout for pansies who don't know how to fight.
They're having fun and trying to hook up with other guy's asses...hey, to each
their own.
Trav
TravIsGod
>(It should be noted that Mo Smith now disavoes TKD and calls it a joke)
>
>Gi
Mo Smith is gettin Mo smarter.
Trav
ToddC
> >d.chri...@hunt.ddbdirect.com (ToddC)
>
> >
> >Ok. I will list TKD BB (it will take research about the Kuukiwan
> >thing) that competed in NHB if (Note to Gi: Help me out here.) ,
>
> Pat Smith, Cal Worsham, Mo Smith, Bas Rutten, several guys who fought in the
> old Russian NHB tapes, several in the BVT's.
> And most notably...
> Jeremy Bullock who took on Travis Fulton in Extreme Challenge 22.
Forgot about him. He was a pretty good TKD guy, too.
> (It should be noted that Mo Smith now disavoes TKD and calls it a joke)
ouch!
I see Mo every once in a while up at the AMC Pankcration Center in
Kirkland near Seattle - good guy.
I'll have to ask him about the TKD thing. He used to go on about "it's
not the style its the artist..." seems like that was the
classroom/seminar face. Sounds like he just wised up.
> Gi
Thanks, Gi.
Ox
been around for over 600 years. Our style uses not only low kicks but
instep kicks. You don't get much lower than the top of the foot. I have
a freind who was showing off her muay tai kicks. After all had left I
showed her all of the standing Chung do kwan kicks. I that had a
gunslinger type match with her. Fast draw kicks. I beat her every time.
she now takes lessons with me. Thats my dimes worth on speed. In our
school we also attack the shin of a kicker. we have many techniques of
this defense. You can only condition your shin so much. If its not as
strong as a 2x4 I can break it. I really like Muay Tai matches on ESPN
but thats where they need to be. A good boxer or a fast street fighter
will warm your head with several punches before the guys on ESPN can
land one of those forewarned roundhouse kicks. Ox Givens
Les Griswold
... says the guy who likes "mounting" guys in wrestling...
Les!
Gichoke
>
>Forgot about him. He was a pretty good TKD guy, too.
>
>> (It should be noted that Mo Smith now disavoes TKD and calls it a joke)
>
>ouch!
>I see Mo every once in a while up at the AMC Pankcration Center in
>Kirkland near Seattle - good guy.
>
>I'll have to ask him about the TKD thing. He used to go on about "it's
>not the style its the artist..." seems like that was the
>classroom/seminar face. Sounds like he just wised up.
>
>> Gi
>
>Thanks, Gi.
I never met Mo, but he was asked about styles in an interveiw a couple years
back and he stated that he did TKD in highschool, but realised that he could
murder his teachers so he gave it up...
then he stated
"these styles work...Kickboxing, boxing, thaiboxing, wrestling , Judo, Sambo ,
Brazilian Jiu-jitsu."
Gi
Gichoke
>
>In Chung do Kwan TKD, We use the chamber in all kicks. Our style has
>been around for over 600 years. Our style uses not only low kicks but
>instep kicks. You don't get much lower than the top of the foot. I have
>a freind who was showing off her muay tai kicks. After all had left I
>showed her all of the standing Chung do kwan kicks. I that had a
>gunslinger type match with her. Fast draw kicks. I beat her every time.
>she now takes lessons with me.
Sure you can get a kick off quiker by chambering, that is why TKD does it that
way.
But Thaiboxing kicks arew much harder.
>You can only condition your shin so much. If its not as
>strong as a 2x4 I can break it.
With your shin?
I'd bet ya.
Gi
MDKGeary
the correct body posture, mechanics, speed and power, that most people you
see fighting in a TKD style aren't that good. That does not mean the art is
not good. Also...many older people are drawn towards TKD more for its
aerobic and toning benefits, therefore the TKD world is represented more
with children and older men, than teen and middle aged men and women.
Anyway...it truly is the artist, not the art. But what everyoen does to TKD
is this metaphor: (I can't cook worth shit)...you give me a cookbook and
ingredients and you tell me to make a 4 course meal....When you taste it you
gag and can't get down one bite...are you going to tell me my cooking sucks,
or the cookbook sucks??? What you are saying about TKD in relation to this
is that the cookbook sucks.
KMG
"ToddC" <todd.chr...@hunt.ddbdirect.com> wrote in message
news:8fbddc60.01090...@posting.google.com...
ToddC
You used cooking as a metaphore. I use gardening.
One can dig hole with a hammer - but a shovel is better.
I didn't say TKD sucked. I did TKD - as an adult - dillegently for
about eight years (the last four were in conjuction with boxing and
Hapkido).
I said that TKD fighters in MMA and NHB events faired VERY poorly
against MMA and x-trained fighters specifically when they attempted to
use TKD.
TKD is fine art for many things. Fitness, balance, agility, and
spirit/character development. I really enjoyed my years in TKD.
This thread originally was about MT vs. TKD kicks. I stated that both
work on varying levels fo different things. Both are pretty
powerfull. I usually choose MT kicks now because they are more
versitile in the MMA environment and less telegraphed. I never said
TKD kicks sucked. Quite the opposite.
But TKD is zero point zero zero good for *open rules* or MMA fighting
- not as it is conventionally taught in the majority of TKD venues in
the US , Korea, or anywhere. Period.
And frankly TKD has faired poorly untill very recently against Muay
Thai, which is closer to its range/style.
TKD fails in this regard pricipally because it focuses more trianing
time on outside and long distance kicking and has little or no
grappling. LD fighting is untenable and it's so easy to crash and
drive a LD fighter out of his comfort zone that an opponent need only
have rudumentary inside and grappling skills to do so. That is why TKD
takes so much heat - but usually only after TKD's more rabid
practioners claim it is has none of these flaws.
I have experinced this first hand in the ring and the street and it is
evidenced as we have stated before. Even the most cursory examination
of the abundant evidence would tell you this.
And perhaps because of these blatant flaws it may also be LESS usefull
than many other Trad arts (and definitely MMA) in self defense. Maybe.
But I'm willing to cut slack there because SD and fighting are not the
same anilmal - VERY closely related - but not the same.
I would state that if one (a male practicioner) dedicated a great deal
of time dillegently trianing in almost any style then one shoud do ok
in most common situations.
BUT, IMHO, one could achieve these results much faster in most MMA
styles, however.
Is faster better? Dunno. How much time do you have?
Mobli
$UG6.4...@amsnews02.chello.com:
> RobRPM2222 <robrp...@aol.comInternet> schreef in berichtnieuws
>> The Thai kick is more like someone swinging a baseball bat at your legs.
>> You impact with the shin, and the leg is straight on impact.
>
> Leg should not be straight at impact.
> Dany
>
Yeah.. I don't know what some of these people are talking about, because
when I do thai roundhouse kick, it's not straight at all -- it's more bent.
It's bent from the point when it leaves the ground, and upon point of
impact. I can't imagine how one can get much momentum if the leg is
straight.
Mobli
news:20010814233232...@ng-cu1.aol.com:
> The Thai kick is more like someone swinging a baseball bat at your
> legs. You impact with the shin, and the leg is straight on impact. I
> could kick harder with a shorter amount of practice with the Thai kick,
> and IMO I would much rather have someone kick me with the TKD kick than
> the Thai kick.
Depends on what the target is.
Mobli
> Rob, although I have never formally trained in MT, I have sparred with
> those who have, and have seen numerous videos. The MT roundhouse is
> nothing more than a low TKD RH. It makes me laugh to read these
> boneheads describing the MT RH as so powerful because you pivot on the
> standing foot, and put your hips into, and all that other crap that
> our resident ignorami think is exclusive to MT. All kicking styles
> teach the same thing.
I've never formally trained in TKD, but I think the MT roundhouse kick is
different from "traditional" roundhouse kicks. Now, I don't blame you for
thinking that they are the same, because many MT people don't do the MT
roundhouse kick properly, giving the false impression that all they are
doing is flinging the legs out much like kids do in elementary school when
they do the roundhouse kicks in a brawl.
Furthermore, it doesn't much help when NHB guys, who are supposedly experts
and training in MT systems, can't do MT roundhouse kicks properly either.
RobRPM2222
>when I do thai roundhouse kick, it's not straight at all -- it's more bent.
>It's bent from the point when it leaves the ground, and upon point of
>impact. I can't imagine how one can get much momentum if the leg is
>straight.
What I meant was that it's straighter than a TKD kick. Already corrected this
on another thread.
--
Rob Meyer | As Voltaire once said-
Kempo-Jujitsu, Sombo, | " Witty quotes mean nothing."
Goshinbudo Jujitsu ( MMA )
MDKGeary
"Les Griswold" <eg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:9mvtes$rmk$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
Gichoke
> > I respect TKD for being a hangout for pansies who don't know how to
>fight.
>> >
>> > They're having fun and trying to hook up with other guy's asses...
>>
>> ... says the guy who likes "mounting" guys in wrestling...
>>
>> Les!
>
>I'll mount my foot in your ass Les, how bout that?
You have resorted to making childish threats that you have no intention of
backing up to support your theory on TKD being rife with badasses.
Kicking Les ass won't do it.
Try Kazushi Sakuraba, Frank Shamrock or Pedro Rizzo.
Gi
Les Griswold
"MDKGeary"
>>> I respect TKD for being a hangout for pansies who don't know how to fight.
>>>
>>> They're having fun and trying to hook up with other guy's asses...
>> ... says the guy who likes "mounting" guys in wrestling...
>>
>> Les!
>
>
>I'll mount my foot in your ass Les, how bout that?
Please read the attributions, butt-munch.
I was replying to TravIsGod.
You're welcome.
Les!