Grand Master Simon
Joe Goeller
-> Newsgroup: rec.martial-arts
-> From: RVAN...@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca
-> Organization: BC Systems Corporation
->
-> In article <CFtLB...@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
-> umsi...@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Dennis Hai Choon Sithoo) writes:
->
-> >
-> >
-> >As for O.E. Simon, I was told by one of his subordinates that he is
-> >Grandmaster of his style, which is a composition of Northern and Sou
-> >Shaolin. He is one of the only three people in the world who current
-> >holds the red sash. (I can't vouch for his validity, but if anyone h
-> >heard more about him then I would like to know.)
->
-> Olaf Simon said he learned some Northern style of Kung Fu in Bejing
-> (Peking) when his Grandfather was an Ambassador there from Germany.
-> His style is called Mo (Moo ?) style Kung Fu. After that he ended up
-> in Japan and learned Shotakan Karate which he taught in Calgary, Albe
-> Canada for many years during the 60's. After that he started to teac
-> bits and pieces of his Mo style Kung Fu to some of his senior student
-> Later his Temple Kung Fu organizations started up. These schools are
-> very secretively so few outsiders know what is actually being taught
-> Olaf Simon is quite knowledgeable and skillful but rarely shares his
->
->
-> * * *
-> Regards,
-> Ray Van Raamsdonk (389-3725)
-> BC Systems
-> ---
-> * TNet 3.90 = Capital City On-Line -Reply to: US...@CCOL.CLD9.COM
Thank You Ray. I can certainly appreciate your input on this discussion
line. I felt like the only one reading these posts, who had any
knowledge of Grand Master Simon.
---
* TNet 3.90 = Capital City On-Line -Reply to: US...@CCOL.CLD9.COM
Hawrysch George
In article <7.9872.72...@cld9.com>,
joe.g...@cld9.com (Joe Goeller) writes:
>Bill....
>
>While I have removed myself from the "origins" discussions, I would like
>to ask you a minor favor. Please take the time to do a quality look into
>Grand Master Simon. Your words are most certainly disrespectful to
>this one of 3 Grand Masters in the world of his knowledge and
>experience. And disrespectful to the masters before them.
>
>It would be better if you know more about the man, before you speak of
>him in public.
Joe....
How, specifically, does one go about "do[ing] a quality look into
Grand Master Simon"? Here in Edmonton, they literally wouldn't
let me in the door when I went to visit their studio. In fact,
they wouldn't even _open_ the door, just spoke to me through a
sliding slot thing. "Make an appointment for a personal
interview," was all they kept repeating. Then when I phoned it
was the same thing. They wouldn't give any basic information,
not prices, schedules, what style it was -- nothing at all. Just
"you need a personal interview" repeated over and over.
Their late-night TV commercials... Well, they're hilarious.
It may not reflect on the level of the martial art, but it's
difficult to keep a straight face, never mind muster up much
respect.
Their reputation seems uniformly poor. About a dozen of his ex-
students (including a few ex-instructors) have come through our
studio here over the years. No one who has been there -- that
I've met -- has anything good to say about their experience with
Temple Kung Fu. Not that this is proof of anything, but it is the
word on the street.
In the fall of 1980 I read a small novel by Olaf Simon. I don't
remember the title (something about "White Crane"? maybe). It was
about a martial arts temple near the Russian-Chinese border, a
young man's training and adventures there... Anyway, what struck
me most was a mention in the Introduction of the "betrayal" of
Master Simon (I don't believe he was "GrandMaster" then) by large
numbers of his students. He sounded so bitter...
Now. I am not forming any conclusions about Olaf Simon's prowess,
ability to teach, or anything similiar. I have never met him or
seen him on tape, nor do I believe that any such passing
acquaintance would really be enough to know what he is about.
BUT! What exactly is there to respect? Respect is earned, not
conferred. A grandiose title means nothing, as Bill and others
have pointed out; anyone, absolutely anyone at all, can have one
of those. (In fact, anyone going around claiming to be a "master"
-- or, worse, a "Master" -- is by that very act confirming the
emptiness of that assertion.) "[O]ne of 3 Grand Masters in the
world..." refers to nothing that can be tested or verified. And
even if it were true, even if it somehow then merited "respect,"
it would not be a license to make factually unsound statements.
George
Ronald Ng
your money
Tom Meleady
them train etc. If you go to the club they will only allow a personal
interview. They wouldn't even give information on what kind of training
they do or the background of their martial art.
--
Cheers,
Tom
Gregory E. Garland
Well, at least now we know there's nothing wrong with giving him
the same credit as David Carradine.
:-)
--
Greg Garland - Alive, occupying space, and exerting gravitational force
MS 62-024, Harris Semiconductor Sector, PO Bx 883,
Melbourne FL 32905. g...@beep.mis.semi.harris.com
"Never let the facts interfere with your perception of reality."
My name is...
In article <1993Nov9.0...@mlb.semi.harris.com>, g...@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland) writes...
>In article <2bmfhf$r...@nnrp.ucs.ubc.ca>, mel...@ucs.ubc.ca (Tom Meleady) writes:
>|> The club here in Vancouver is very secretive, no prices, you can't watch
>|> them train etc. If you go to the club they will only allow a personal
>|> interview. They wouldn't even give information on what kind of training
>|> they do or the background of their martial art.
>|> --
>|>
>|> Cheers,
>|> Tom
>|>
>
I'll bet more than one person here would just *love* to know what goes on in
that interview.
Grandmaster: Do you want to learn the "death techniques"?
Me: Yes!
Gandmaster: That will be $500 extra and you must swear secrecy!
Me: I'll be right back! (bow and exit for my bank)
Ken
Bosaiya
Whoops, there's more. He was in fact in Beijing at the time of the Boxer
Rebellion (he claims) and because his father was a man of much respect
and integrity he was the (again these are his facts, not mine) only
westerner allowed to study with the temple. When the temples were
destroyed by the communist regime he fled along nomadic trading routes
and hid among the gypsies who often traded with the monks. He made his
way, on foot, to Germany and eventually to Canada. He's got a nice set
of scars along his chest where he was shot up.
Whether any of that is true or not, I don't know. He's getting pretty
old and it's hard to tell what to believe.
Bosaiya
Joe Goeller (joe.g...@cld9.com) wrote:
: -> Message-ID: <16C79CEBAS...@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca>
Bosaiya
Grandmaster Simon wears the White sash. He teaches three styles
currently. The Moh (Dragon) Temple system, which is the lesser
brotherhood, the Pai Hu Shi (White Tiger) system and one other.
As for whether or not he is a sham, that all depends on what you expect
out of him.
Bosaiya
Joe Goeller (joe.g...@cld9.com) wrote:
: -> Message-ID: <16C79CEBAS...@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca>
Marty
>Whoops, there's more. He was in fact in Beijing at the time of the Boxer
>Rebellion (he claims) and because his father was a man of much respect
>and integrity he was the (again these are his facts, not mine) only
>westerner allowed to study with the temple.
Interesting. Since the Boxer Rebellion happened in 1900 (actually coming
to a head in June of that year when the international forces began
driving towards Peking), than that would have to make Simon at least
97 to remember anything. How old did you say he was?
>When the temples were
>destroyed by the communist regime he fled along nomadic trading routes
>and hid among the gypsies who often traded with the monks. He made his
>way, on foot, to Germany and eventually to Canada. He's got a nice set
>of scars along his chest where he was shot up.
This is a bit more believeable, although I still doubt that he was
gained entrance to the temple. As far as I know, the temples were still
anti-western in general. And regardless of his father's integrity,
he'd have to of been pretty buddy-buddy with one of the local warlords
(the reason the temple was destroyed by the communists was because they
sided with and fought with the local warlords against Mao's forces).
>Whether any of that is true or not, I don't know. He's getting pretty
>old and it's hard to tell what to believe.
How old is old?
>Bosaiya
Marty
-----------------------------------
World Wing Chun Kung Fu Association
===================================
Bill Knittle (Ven. An Tzu)
fei...@eskimo.com (Bosaiya) writes:
>
>Whoops, there's more. He was in fact in Beijing at the time of the Boxer
>Rebellion (he claims)
Well, that would put him over 100, since the Boxer Rebellion took place
in 1899-1900. Even if he were just born, that would put him in his
nineties (though that's still within reason these days).
Bill Knittle (Ven. An Tsu)
RVAN...@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca
fei...@eskimo.com (Bosaiya) writes:
>
>Whoops, there's more. He was in fact in Beijing at the time of the Boxer
>Rebellion (he claims) and because his father was a man of much respect
>and integrity he was the (again these are his facts, not mine) only
>westerner allowed to study with the temple. When the temples were
>destroyed by the communist regime he fled along nomadic trading routes
>and hid among the gypsies who often traded with the monks. He made his
>way, on foot, to Germany and eventually to Canada. He's got a nice set
>of scars along his chest where he was shot up.
>
>Whether any of that is true or not, I don't know. He's getting pretty
>old and it's hard to tell what to believe.
>
>Bosaiya
>
before age 10: A Chinese friend of his father taught him some Kung Fu
Age 11: enrolled in a military academy in Germany where he learned Karate
Age 15: left the academy and served in the German army on an
anti-aircraft gun
At the end of the war was arrested by the Russian secret police
that was at age 16. He was imprisoned in Siberia. After 9 months he
escaped from Siberia back to Poland.
In Germany he earned his Ph.D. in philosophy and literature.
In 1955 he was back in a Russian prison. After 4 months he was exchanged
for a Communist agent captured in the Western sector.
He retrned to Germany and got drafted by the German army.He took
off to Canada, leaving his draft notice and new wife behind.
In 1960 he was working in a Toronto auto dealership, as a janitor
and parts man. This allowed him to bring his wife over from
Germany. To be near his brother in Spokane, the Simons came to
Calgary in 1961. In 1965 Simon opened up a full time Karate studio.
In 1965 he entered a Salt Lake City tournament and took a first
for fighting and a third for form. In 1970 Olaf went to a Chinese
master of Kung Fu in Edmonton who had moved there from
China. He was tested by Tang Sum, the head of the Royal Hong
Kong Police Force, who was then visiting Canada. These people
awarded him the title of "Grand Master". (before that his
diploma on the wall said 7th degree black belt). After that he
got in with Ed Parker's Kenpo for a very short period of time
but broke away from that. The source of this info:
Calgary Herald Magazine Friday, July 23, 1971 (interview with
Olaf Simon by Alan Arbuckle:Herald Staff Writer).
Regards,
Ray Van Raamsdonk (389-3725)
BC Systems
Stephen...@transarc.com
Tom Mel...@ucs.ubc.ca (282)
I visitted a Temple Kung-Fu school in Bellevue, WA back in '88. They
talked a lot about how secret their MA was - I managed to see on of
their guys practicing by accident, and it looked like one of the harder
brands of Karate, right down to the toes curled back front kicks.
Their newsletter was full of enthusiastic students thanking Simon
profusely for changing their lives.
They had a big metal pot with a carved dragon on one side, and a carved
tiger on the other - you know, like in Kung-Fu where he has to pick up
the glowing pot of charcoal with his forearms, and it burns itself into
his arms - like a twue shaowin wawwiah. They claimed Simon had
inheritted this pot from the Shaolin Temple.
I decided to study at the Shito-Ryu Karate dojo across town.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Chan ch...@transarc.com |Transarc Corporation
(412)338-6996 |707 Grant St
"The best move is very close to the worse move."|Pittsburgh, PA 15219
Bill Knittle (Ven. An Tzu)
Stephen...@transarc.com writes:
> They had a big metal pot with a carved dragon on one side, and a carved
>tiger on the other - you know, like in Kung-Fu where he has to pick up
>the glowing pot of charcoal with his forearms, and it burns itself into
>his arms - like a twue shaowin wawwiah. They claimed Simon had
>inheritted this pot from the Shaolin Temple.
The three-legged pot is called a ting. It has a long tradition in
Chinese religion and alchemy (e.g. in the 1st-2nd century, copper,
cinnabar, mercury, lead, sulfur, saltpeter and charcoal were heated
in them in an attempt to create a longevity drug).
However, I've never heard of the practice of burning images onto
the arms prior to the television series. In fact, such mutilation
is very non-Buddhist.
On the other hand, Shaolin and other Buddhist monks very often
DID have the Bodhisattva marks burned onto their foreheads
(I can tell you from experience it hurts like hell!!) and
some Korean monks do so on the upper part of the arm.
My name is...
In article <1993111212...@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>, EIW...@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Bill Knittle (Ven. An Tzu)) writes...
>In article <ggsc_c_SM...@transarc.com>,
>Stephen...@transarc.com writes:
>
>> They had a big metal pot with a carved dragon on one side, and a carved
>>tiger on the other - you know, like in Kung-Fu where he has to pick up
>>the glowing pot of charcoal with his forearms, and it burns itself into
>>his arms - like a twue shaowin wawwiah. They claimed Simon had
>>inheritted this pot from the Shaolin Temple.
>
>
>The three-legged pot is called a ting. It has a long tradition in
>Chinese religion and alchemy (e.g. in the 1st-2nd century, copper,
>cinnabar, mercury, lead, sulfur, saltpeter and charcoal were heated
>in them in an attempt to create a longevity drug).
>
>However, I've never heard of the practice of burning images onto
>the arms prior to the television series. In fact, such mutilation
>is very non-Buddhist.
OH yeah? Well,in Ed Parkers book #1,he recounts that as fact and *he*
knew his stuff! NYAAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!! (tongue sticking out)
Oh yeah,and Carradine's book tells about it too!
Ken