Wing Chun History
Marty
*NOTE* I am reposting this under this heading, just in case some
people allready had the original heading in their /kill files.
law...@leonis.nus.sg (Mr. Joel Lee) says:
>Subject: Re: KUNG FU - NEW SERIES QUESTIONS
>Doug Pase (pa...@cray.com) wrote:
>: In article <2b3un2$i...@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> kel...@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (David Lewis) writes:
>: >
>: >... I know that there must of been girls who
>: >studied in the temples because NG MUI was a female buddhist monk that helped
>: >develop Wing Chun.
>
>: She is also reputed to have strong connections to the origination of the Hung
>: Kuen animal forms. Does anyone know what relationship there is (technical or
>: historical), between Hung Kuen Kung Fu and Wing Chun? I am familiar with
>: some of the legends surrounding Hung Kuen, but none for Wing Chun.
>
>: -- Doug
>----------------------------------------------------------
>Dear Doug,
> Legend has it that Ng Mui created Wing Chun after she escaped the
>burning of the Shaolin Temple. Wing Chun was apparently created to defeat
>the traitors within the Shaolin system, some of which had probably
>studied Hung Kuen. She went on to teach a chinese maiden called Wing Chun
>(yes, the art was named after her).
> This is kinda the abridged version. If you want to know anything
>else, I'd be glad to help. E-mail me.
Ummm...No. Let me straighten a few things out here:
Ng Mui was one of five monks from the the Northern temple that had the task
of putting together a new system. This new system was to take 5-7 years
to produce a proficient fighter instead of the usuall 15-20. These
five masters were:
Jee Shin Shim Shee
Ng Mui
Fung Doe Duck Doa Jung
Mew Hing Doa Nung
Bok Mai Doa Jung
The five were representative masters of various arts (Eagle Claw, White
Crane, Mantis, and a few others). They met to discuss and evaluate the
best techniques and concepts of their respective systems, in order to
form this newer one. As mentioned above, goal of this art was not to fight
against "renegade monks", but rather to shorten the time it took to train
proficient fighters to eventually be used to try and overthrow the
conquering Manchu's.
When Emporer Kangxi (1662-1722) set fire to the temple (approx. 1700)
These five were of the only ones to escape. Their plan was to eventually
meet up again at O'Mie Shan in Szchwan.
On the way, Ng Mui wound up for a time in Kwangtung provinence at a place
called Bock Hock Gwoon ("White Crane Temple" on Tai Leung Mountain. I'm
assuming this is in Kwangtung, but it could actually be the Fukien temple
in the neighboring province of Fukien). While staying there, she
eventually met a young girl who sold bean curds in the village below.
What is not clear is whether she was an orphan or not. Some say she
was an orphan and Ng Mui named her Yimm Wing Chun which can be translated
to mean "Beautiful Springtime" or "Hope for the Future". Other's say
she was the daughter a farmer/seller by the name of Yimm Yee.
What is known is that a head of the local Tong wanted Yimm Wing Chun for his
own. Ng Mui decided to teach Yimm the temple art so she could defend
herself.
Yimm went to the Tong leader and said he could have her only if he
could beat her. The man was a talented Eagle Claw practitioner, and
laughed joyously when responding affirmitively to the challenge. A time
was set up and Ng Mui continued her training.
During the training, Ng Mui and Yimm Wing Chun modified and fine tuned
the temple art, further refining it from it's original form. This is
interesting to note, as there are other arts that claim to be related
to Wing Chun through the other five monks. One, Fut Ga Kin, goes so far
to say that it *is* the original art that Wing Chun was based off of.
Yimm Wing Chun met with the man, and thrashed him. After the fight, she
left the village and traveled with Ng Mui, further challenging many great
male fighters (and beating them) with the understanding that any who could
beat her would have her. What's important to note is that according to
master Doo Wai of Bok Fu Pai system (founded by Fung Doe Duk Doa Jung of
the original five masters), the five monks met up at O'Mie Shan about two
years after the fall of the temple. This would lead one to believe that
Yimm was accompanying Ng Mui along her further trek to O'Mie Shan, and
corroborate the tale of the further challenges.
Yimm Wing Chun eventually found someone she cared about, and decided
to throw the fight so she could marry him. She left Ng Mui and settled
down with the man, Leung Bak Cho. After a time, Leung Bok Cho took
to teasing his wife about her fighting skills and giving her a hard
time. When she'd had enough, she challenged Leung in their courtyard
and proceeded to thrash him. Leung was in awe, and immediately began
learning the system from his wife.
Later, this system became known as Wing Chun in honor of the founder.
(At what time period in the linneage is not known).
Now, some linneages say that Wing Chun was created to be used on slippery
surfaces like boats, and was actually formed on a traveling opera boat.
They say this is also where Wing Chun got the long staff's or Dragon Poles,
from the boat's oars. While this story has some truth to it, it is only
a smaller part of the actuall Wing Chun history.
After Leung Bok Cho learned the art, he eventually taught it to his nephew
Wong Wah Bo who was a performer in a traveling opera troop based on the
ship Hung Shuen (Red Boat) in Canton. It was at this time that the Dragon
Pole and Butterfly Swords were added to Wing Chun. Apparently, Jee Shin
Shim Shee of the original five was in hiding on this ship as the ship's
cook. Given the timing, one would have to think this was some time
after they had all met up in O'Mie Shan. While Jee Shin was at the temple,
he had also specialized in two different weapons that he felt covered
the main ranges: Butterfly Swords and Long Staff. While on the ship,
he trained Wong Wah Bo in these two forms, who then modified them to
fit within the principles of Wing Chun he had learned. Wong then went
on to teach it to his nephew Leung Yee Tye, who was also on the ship.
The element of the ship's oars comes in because that is what was used
to practice the long pole, as it was most easily available. What is
also little known, was the arms of the mook jong first became their
detachable style that we use now, during this time. At this time,
the ship's masts were used as the dummy's body. The arms were fit
into slots grooved in to the masts, and taken out and hidden when
not in use.
The art was then passed on to Dr. Leung Jan, the son of Leung Yee Tye,
he went to live in the village of Fatshan, just south of Canton in
Kwangtung provinence. The rest of the linneage is commonly known,
but either way I will quickly run through it: Leung Jan passed it
on to his son's Leung Cheun and Leung Bok, and later to Chan Wah
Soon. At the age of 12, Yip Man began learning under Chan Wah Soon
and became the man's last disciple. After Chan's death, Yip Man later
found Leung Bok in Hong Kong and finished his training. He later
returned to Fatshan, only leaving when the Communists won victory
on the mainland. He fled, leaving his fortune behind and evetually
wound up in Macau, impoverished and destitute. It was here he
technically had his first student. He defeated the son of a reputable
Tai Chi practitioner, and according to tradition the son had to train
under Yip Man for a short time. Some time later, Leung Shan found
Yip Man and brought him back to Hong Kong to stay with him. Leung Shan
was a White Eyebrow instructor, and upon seeing the art and the training
methods, Yip Man ridiculed Leung Shan. Leung Shan chellenged Yip Man and
was defeated. Yip Man then took Leung Shan as his student and opened
the now legendary school in Hong Kong at the Worker's Union in 1951.
Upon seeing no other's were left that knew the full spectrum of the art,
he declared himself Grandmaster of Wing Chun.
Marty
Do
-----------------------------------
World Wing Chun Kung Fu Association
===================================
Steven Weigand
ago? Who is the successor (or successor to be) of Wing Chun?
2) Who is truly qualified to teach it in the world? In the U.S.?
3) Do you think that Wing Chun has degraded any since its creation?
Does the system that is taught today have everything that the
original system had (that was taught to Wing Chun, the lady)?
Is Wing Chun still in the same spirit as it was in its origin?
4) Did the 5 original monks/nuns ever get together to produce the
martial art that they had originally intended to create?
5) Did Ng Mui ever teach anyone else Wing Chun besides Wing Chun
herself?
6) Can Wing Chun really be learned in 5 years? That may have been
way back then, but what about in today's world? I suppose it
still takes a lifetime to master, but 5 years to learn?
Thanks,
- Steve Weigand
(wei...@udel.edu)
My name is...
In article <2bm69q$m...@louie.udel.edu>, wei...@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Steven Weigand) writes...
>1) So what has happened since Yip Mann? Didn't he die some time
> ago? Who is the successor (or successor to be) of Wing Chun?
>
>2) Who is truly qualified to teach it in the world? In the U.S.
Isn't Seifu Boztepe the heir apparent? After all,he won the fight,didn't he?
Ken
Jeff Pipkins
>*NOTE* I am reposting this under this heading, just in case some
>people allready had the original heading in their /kill files.
Maybe you should cross-post to all other groups, for the benefit
of those who have, for some reason, unsubscribed to rec.martial-arts
altogether.
Jeff=Pipkins%FW=Util%Sys=H...@bangate.compaq.com
------------------------------------------------------------------- [sig #63]
I am NOT authorized to represent | "'Heck' is a place where God sends people
my employer. Use my opinions | when they say things like 'Aw, shoot'
ONLY at your OWN risk. | instead of 'shit'." --McCormick, O'Rourke,
| Civitello _Nat'l_Lampoon_'81
William T. Rankin
|> *NOTE* I am reposting this under this heading, just in case some
|> people allready had the original heading in their /kill files.
Dear Marty,
Did it ever occur to you that there is a *REASON* that this subject
may be in our kill files?
Perhaps something on the order of:
WE DON'T WANT TO READ ABOUT IT.
Simple enough for you?
|> Marty
|>
|> Do
-bill "the Terry Chan of North Carolina" rankin
--
/ __/ / /
bill rankin / / /
wra...@egr.duke.edu ___ / / / /
graduate weenie / / / / /
/ / / / /
_______/ __/ __/ __/
Marty
>In article <2bkmug...@uwm.edu>, gun...@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:
>
>|> *NOTE* I am reposting this under this heading, just in case some
>|> people allready had the original heading in their /kill files.
>
>Dear Marty,
>
>Did it ever occur to you that there is a *REASON* that this subject
>may be in our kill files?
Dear Will,
Did it ever occur to even bother to read what the note was about before
using it to respond in an overtly pompous and arrogant post? The original
series title was:
KUNG FU -- New Series Questions
which I know is in many people's kill files. Wing Chun History is hardly
on the same level of discussion as David Carridene, which is why I thought
others would be interested. And according to the responses, they were.
If you don't agree, there's some very simple and non-flamatory suggestions
listed below.
>Perhaps something on the order of:
>
> WE DON'T WANT TO READ ABOUT IT.
Please define "we". So far I have gotten a number of positive responses,
including one to repost and crosspost to a few other newsgroups.
Yours has been the only negative (and nonconstuctive at that) response that
has been seen anywhere.
>Simple enough for you?
Sure Will. And let's try something simple even you can understand.
You don't want to read it, hit the "n" key. If the entire subject
of Wing Chun doesn't interest you, then put the keywords in a /kill
file. But don't lump the entire newgroup in with yourself to try and
add credence to your flame.
>-bill "the Terry Chan of North Carolina" rankin
Hardly. From what I recall in another post, Terry seemed to appreciate
my posting. And if he had anything negative to say, it would have been
in a much more constuctive manner from what I've seen him post in the
past. Your empty quote shows no similarity.
Marty
-----------------------------------
World Wing Chun Kung Fu Association
-----------------------------------
Steve Perryman
>
>*NOTE* I am reposting this under this heading, just in case some
>people allready had the original heading in their /kill files.
I have posted a precis of the Wing Chun lineage (as written by Jim Lau for
Inside Kung Fu in 1980) , which corresponds closely to most of the varied
history lessons told by various practitioners :
Shaolin Temple (Manchu Dynasty) :
The 5 masters are as posted. Ng Mui's expertise was in an old system of gong-
fu known as the Plum Flower Fist. Ng Mui fled the sacking of the temple to the
already-mentioned province. There she witnessed the fight between a snake
and a white crane. From the fight Ng Mui deduced :
- The centre-line theory, straight-line and 'darting' techniques
(principles from the snake)
- The low-kicking, good balance and turning (principles from the crane)
These were incorporated with Plum Flower Fist techniques to form a new
fighting system.
While in exile Ng Mui meet a young woman whose name was Yeem Wehng Chun, who
was betrothed to a bandit leader. Ng Mui taught the system to the lady, who
was able to defeat the bandit.
Wehng Chun married her sweetheart Leung Bok Cha, and taught him the system.
When Yeem Wehng Chun died, the system became known as 'Wing Chun' , in that
Yeem Wehng Chun was the first to learn it.
Leung Bok Cha taught the Wing Chun system to his nephew, a man named Leung
Lahn Kwai.
Leung Lahn Kwai was friends with a stagehand on the legendary 'Red Boat' , a
man named Won Wah Boh. At that time, one of the 5 masters of Shaolin (Jee
Seen) was working on the boat and taught the 'six-and-a-half' pole techniques
to a boat punter, Leung Yee Tai. The pole techniques were taught by Leung Yee
Tai to Won Wah Boh, and Won corresponding taught the Wing Chun system. Thus
the pole techniques became engrained in the Wing Chun system.
Later in life at a town called Fo-san, Leung Yee Tai became ill. There he was
tended to be a chinese doctor called Leung Jun, who was a gong-fu enthusiast.
Yee Tai explained the theory of Wing Chun to Leung Jun who was impressed
enough to learn the system. After learning Wing Chun, it is said that Leung
Jun accepted many challenges and was never beaten. At this stage the fame and
legend of the Wing Chun system became known to southern China.
Leung Jun taught Wing Chun to his sons, one named Leung Bik. He also taught
the system to a money exchanger named Tzan Wah Shun. Tzan's strength was
legendary (he was said to be able to cleanly brake the arms of the Muk Yahn
Jong with the Bong Sao technique) .
When Tzan Wah Shun was old, he took a young boy named Yiep Mun as his
student. The boy Yiep Mun had some tutilege from Tzan (who soon after died)
and Tzan's senior student Ng Chung So.
When Yiep Mun left Fo-San to study in Hong Kong, he had the chance encounter
with Mr Leung Bik (the son of the famed Dr Leung Jun) . Here Yiep Mun trained
and expanded his Wing Chun to those higher echelons we can only dream of.
Yiep Mun returned to Fo-San, where he did NOT teach. With the Communist
revolution he fled to Hong Kong (being of well-to-do family) where fate led
him to teach Wing Chun. The rest is history.
Through Yiep Mun the world has been fortunate to experience a fighting system
of such pure simplicity and effectiveness, through Bruce Lee the Wing Chun
system will be known forevermore.
Steven Perryman
s...@fulcrum.co.uk
Ad absurdum per aspera
>*NOTE* I am reposting this under this heading, just in case some
>people allready had the original heading in their /kill files.
Not to worry. Kill files are easy to modify appropriately, and
don't necessarily just work on Subject lines (desperate men do
desperate things...)
Cheers,
--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Disclaimer: Even if my employer had a position on the subject,
I probably wouldn't be the one stating it on their behalf.