Erle Montaigue system
Sandy Breon
Taijiworld website. I find his fighting style very instructive, especially
the stuff about timing, and also the clips of the YCF long form very
informative as well.
My question is this: does his fighting style, which contains many lightning
quick, explosive, techniques, adhere to the doctrines of Taijiquan, or is it
a entirely new system?
Thanks,
Sandy
Posthumandude
Way to shill for a fraud.
Renzo Gracie challenged Montaigue and monty backed down.
The exchange went something like this:
M: I'll only fight with no rules
G: Ok. Let's go.
M: No, you don't understand. A streetfight with no rules.
G: I understand. Let's go.
Montaigue eventually declined.
Grappler240
>
>Renzo Gracie challenged Montaigue and monty backed down.
that's cause Earl knows, deep down inside, that he is just a charlatan. He
couldn't fight if his life depended on it.
Renzo would've destroyed him.
-g
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
"You can carve it on a bowling pin and cram it,for all I care."
-Gichoke, Jan. 21, 2002
Mike Sigman
"Grappler240" <grapp...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040420145403...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> >Way to shill for a fraud.
> >
> >Renzo Gracie challenged Montaigue and monty backed down.
>
> that's cause Earl knows, deep down inside, that he is just a charlatan.
He
> couldn't fight if his life depended on it.
>
> Renzo would've destroyed him.
Hmmmm.... Erle's got to be in his 50's and has had diabetes for about the
last decade, so he's dropped quite a bit of weight from his prime. I
haven't seen him since the mid-90's. When I first met him he was built like
a fireplug. He used to be a professional wrestler, too. They're just the
wrong generations to have a fight. Some young buck will come along in 20
or 30 years and beat the shit out of Renzo and there will be guys on RMA
making fun of Renzo at the time. :^)
Mike
Posthumandude
>Hmmmm.... Erle's got to be in his 50's and has had diabetes for about the
>last decade, so he's dropped quite a bit of weight from his prime. I
>haven't seen him since the mid-90's. When I first met him he was built like
>a fireplug. He used to be a professional wrestler, too. They're just the
>wrong generations to have a fight. Some young buck will come along in 20
>or 30 years and beat the shit out of Renzo and there will be guys on RMA
>making fun of Renzo at the time. :^)
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
The difference between them is that Renzo actually fights. Helio stepped up
too, which is why noone tries to challenge him.
But when you write a book called "how to use dim mak to destroy a grappler"
you'd best believe that you'll get called on your bullshit.
BillMahoney68
>@mb-m02.aol.com...
>> >Way to shill for a fraud.
>> >
>> >Renzo Gracie challenged Montaigue and monty backed down.
>>
>> that's cause Earl knows, deep down inside, that he is just a charlatan.
>He
>> couldn't fight if his life depended on it.
>>
>> Renzo would've destroyed him.
>
>
>Hmmmm.... Erle's got to be in his 50's and has had diabetes for about the
>last decade, so he's dropped quite a bit of weight from his prime.
So he shouldnt be talking himself up.
Ive seen him dis grapploing and MMA fighters many times.
He's a fraud, and seems fairly delusional.
>He used to be a professional wrestler, too. They're just the
>wrong generations to have a fight. Some young buck will come along in 20
>or 30 years and beat the shit out of Renzo and there will be guys on RMA
>making fun of Renzo at the time. :^)
First off Renzo wont just have STORIES that he used to fight.
He'll have proof.
Secondly he'll have one of his sons beat the detractors ass.
Im sure Renzo would have accepted one of Earles students as a replacement.
Gi
Sandy Breon
up
> too, which is why noone tries to challenge him.
First of all, I have a great respect for grapplers. A few weeks ago on this
newsgroup I even mentioned that even though I have studied tai chi for a
year that I would still use wrestling from my high school wrestling days.
However, after looking at some clips of Erle's fighting system, and reading
some materials on his website there are excellent fighting principles - come
forward not sideways/backwards, beat your opponent to the punch, don't use
locks or kicks as your primary attacking weapon, don't go to the ground,
etc. Although most are common sense sort of things, these concepts hit home.
> But when you write a book called "how to use dim mak to destroy a
grappler"
> you'd best believe that you'll get called on your bullshit.
Good point. However, a confrontation involving serious injury/death to
one/both of the combatants would have been meaningless and the antithesis of
martial arts.
Sandy
Posthumandude
>Good point. However, a confrontation involving serious injury/death to
>one/both of the combatants would have been meaningless and the antithesis of
>martial arts.
Renzo wouldn't need to. It'd be childs play for him to painlessly put montaigue
to sleep.
mark goldberg
>>Way to shill for a fraud.
>>
>>Renzo Gracie challenged Montaigue and monty backed down.
>
>
> that's cause Earl knows, deep down inside, that he is just a charlatan. He
> couldn't fight if his life depended on it.
>
> Renzo would've destroyed him.
That guy must be near 60, so it's not much a fight.
And he's in Australia, and Renzo lives in NJ no, and his school is in NYC?
Mark
Badger North
<ssb...@asl4roisdfkc.com> wrote:
>> But when you write a book called "how to use dim mak to destroy a
>grappler"
>> you'd best believe that you'll get called on your bullshit.
>
>Good point. However, a confrontation involving serious injury/death to
>one/both of the combatants would have been meaningless and the antithesis of
>martial arts.
Yeah, because martial arts is about... um... I forget...
So why does it have to be to serious injury or death? Why couldn't
one of them say "enough", or tap out?
Badger Jones
www.youngforest.ca
Kirk Lawson
> Yeah, because martial arts is about... um... I forget...
You've been screwing around with that Memory Specific Death Touch again?
Can I borrow it?
Peace favor your sword (IH)
--
"In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or
knowledge of their use."
-Achille Marozzo, 1536
--
"...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial
artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise."
-Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts
Sandy Breon
> >one/both of the combatants would have been meaningless and the antithesis
of
> >martial arts.
>
> Yeah, because martial arts is about... um... I forget...
>
> So why does it have to be to serious injury or death? Why couldn't
> one of them say "enough", or tap out?
Because with those high stakes, I doubt either one would "tap out".
Furthermore, the true test would have to be a life/death situation, don't
you think? Otherwise it would just be a sporting event.
Sandy
Mike Sigman
"Posthumandude" <posthu...@aol.comremove> wrote in message
news:20040420155742...@mb-m21.aol.com...
Oh, I didn't know he wrote such a book. In that case, I can see both sides
of the issue. :^)
Mike
Mike Sigman
"BillMahoney68" <billma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040420161703...@mb-m13.aol.com...
Yeah, well, I admit I haven't been keeping up with Erle's literary
adventures, so I didn't know he'd laid out a plan of attack for grapplers.
:^)
Mike
Chas
> The difference between them is that Renzo actually fights.
and he's only 15 years younger, and doesn't have diabetes.
Helio stepped up
> too, which is why noone tries to challenge him.
Nobody wants to either win or lose with an octogenarian.
> But when you write a book called "how to use dim mak to destroy a
grappler"
> you'd best believe that you'll get called on your bullshit.
Pity you don't know what he knows, at your young age- you'd be miles ahead
of him, or anyone else.
Chas
Chas
> So why does it have to be to serious injury or death? Why couldn't
> one of them say "enough", or tap out?
Well, Badger, because if you don't break it, they don't think it works.
The skills involved are pretty sophisticated. Not only would you have to
learn to do it at all, you'd have to learn to mitigate it to demonstrable
levels.
Ask Randall Goodwin about dim mak- have him tell you how his arm still
feels.
Chas
Posthumandude
>Because with those high stakes, I doubt either one would "tap out".
>Furthermore, the true test would have to be a life/death situation, don't
>you think? Otherwise it would just be a sporting event.
>
Did you read what I posted? Renzo offered to give him a no rules fight. He
could do any dim mak he wanted.
Posthumandude
>
>and he's only 15 years younger, and doesn't have diabetes.
>
Like billy said, i'm sure renzo would be willing to accept one of montaigue's
students as a replacement.
>Helio stepped up
>> too, which is why noone tries to challenge him.
>
>Nobody wants to either win or lose with an octogenarian.
>
True. But if you were to fight, say, rickson and win, that would earn you quite
a bit of respect and many new students.
>> But when you write a book called "how to use dim mak to destroy a
>grappler"
>> you'd best believe that you'll get called on your bullshit.
>
>Pity you don't know what he knows, at your young age- you'd be miles ahead
>of him, or anyone else.
>
Oh but I do. I went to a traditional school. Even learned a "killing point".
mark goldberg
> Oh but I do. I went to a traditional school. Even learned a "killing point".
I'm still confused. When did Renzo, who must be about 34 and lives in
NJ? challenge Monataigne, who must be near 60, and lives near the
crocadile hunter?
I'd vote Renzo big, but who wants to see a 34 yr whack a 60 yr old anyway.
mark
Grappler240
>or 30 years and beat the shit out of Renzo and there will be guys on RMA
>making fun of Renzo at the time. :^)
I'll bet there are Gracies in their 50s right now (relson and rorion come to
mind) who would gladly pound the shite out of ole Earl.
But they're real fighters....not paper tigers.
Mike Sigman
"Grappler240" <grapp...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> >Some young buck will come along in 20
> >or 30 years and beat the shit out of Renzo and there will be guys on RMA
> >making fun of Renzo at the time. :^)
>
> I'll bet there are Gracies in their 50s right now (relson and rorion come
to
> mind) who would gladly pound the shite out of ole Earl.
>
> But they're real fighters....not paper tigers.
What's the URL to the Gracie Fan Club? I'd like to go read their
promotional stuff.
Mike
Grappler240
>some materials on his website there are excellent fighting principles -
so, even if he, himself cannot fight....you respect his ability to TALK a good
game??
Montagiue wouldn't know a fight if he were bludgeoned with one.
Grappler240
>
if you can't survive in "sporting event" then how do you ever expect to do
well in a "street" fight??
the events are closer to the real thing than you think. Besides...you putz'es
can't fight anyhoo....sport or "street"...so what's the difference?
dilvie
> Yeah, well, I admit I haven't been keeping up with Erle's literary
> adventures,
You're not missing much. His taiji is better than his writing.
- Eric
--
~
<http://www.dilvie.com/>
Grappler240
>feels.
hysteria.
Grappler240
>
>and he's only 15 years younger, and doesn't have diabetes.
Excuses are the favorite tool of the incompetent.
Chas
> >Ask Randall Goodwin about dim mak- have him tell you how his arm still
> >feels.
> hysteria.
uh; yeah.
Chas
Grappler240
>promotional stuff.
;-)
_ berge @hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge
>one/both of the combatants would have been meaningless and the antithesis of
>martial arts.
Huh?
It would be meaningful to the degree that it would demonstrate who was
the better fighter.
Which is exactly what martial arts are about.
Mike Sigman
"Grappler240" <grapp...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> >What's the URL to the Gracie Fan Club? I'd like to go read their
> >promotional stuff.
>
> www.suckmyballsmikesigman.com
>
I think the link is broken. Couldn't find the page. :^)
Mike
Posthumandude
>I'm still confused. When did Renzo, who must be about 34 and lives in
>NJ? challenge Monataigne, who must be near 60, and lives near the
>crocadile hunter?
>
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12551&page=9&pp=15
>I'd vote Renzo big, but who wants to see a 34 yr whack a 60 yr old anyway.
I would. Or we could send gene lebell.
Fraser Johnston
"Mike Sigman" <mikes...@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:nOOdnZJyCdU...@bresnan.com...
> Hmmmm.... Erle's got to be in his 50's and has had diabetes for about the
> last decade, so he's dropped quite a bit of weight from his prime. I
> haven't seen him since the mid-90's. When I first met him he was built
like
> a fireplug. He used to be a professional wrestler, too. They're just the
> wrong generations to have a fight. Some young buck will come along in 20
> or 30 years and beat the shit out of Renzo and there will be guys on RMA
> making fun of Renzo at the time. :^)
>
> Mike
He's lucky it wasn't Rickson Gracie.
Fraser
Fraser Johnston
"mark goldberg" <msgol...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:Oqhhc.74656$_g4.14...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> I'd vote Renzo big, but who wants to see a 34 yr whack a 60 yr old anyway.
*puts hand up*
Fraser
Fraser Johnston
Where in Australia is he. I have to see a challenge match and this might be
a good opportunity.
Fraser
Mike Sigman
"Fraser Johnston" <fra...@jcis.com.au> wrote in message
news:c64mft$7u9nu$1...@ID-201168.news.uni-berlin.de...
Hell, he's lucky it's not you, I guess. I think he lives around Mullumbimby
or one of those areas in the Rainbow Region of northern NSW. Prides himself
on being a bit of a feral. Go look him up.
Mike
Fraser Johnston
Love to but I'm 2000 miles away on the other side of the country. I am not
really into making challenge matches. I'm too afraid of biting off more
than I can chew. But I love seeing guys who talk a lot of shit have to back
it up and fall short. I am pretty respectful of other people when not
talking shit on the internet. If trouble comes my way I'll go into action
but I don't go looking for it. I get enough injuries in training.
Fraser
Matthew Weigel
"Mike Sigman" <mikes...@bresnan.net> wrote:
I think what you meant to say was that Grap's balls don't appear to be
there.
--
Matthew Weigel
the email address is real
the contents of the post are not
Fraser Johnston
"Matthew Weigel" <nos...@idempot.net> wrote in message
news:nospam-DBF271....@news.supernews.com...
> In article <HOWdna_G-ZD...@bresnan.com>,
> "Mike Sigman" <mikes...@bresnan.net> wrote:
>
> > "Grappler240" <grapp...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> > news:20040420220128...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> > > >What's the URL to the Gracie Fan Club? I'd like to go read their
> > > >promotional stuff.
> > >
> > > www.suckmyballsmikesigman.com
> > >
> >
> > I think the link is broken. Couldn't find the page. :^)
>
> I think what you meant to say was that Grap's balls don't appear to be
> there.
>
>
Fraser
123
mark goldberg <msgol...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:u9ghc.74279$_g4.14...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
>
> And he's in Australia, and Renzo lives in NJ no, and his school is in NYC?
Isn't taiji all about old men being able to beat young men?
And he's now in Wales.
Fraser Johnston
"123" <1...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c65b1b$90j$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
New South Wales?
Fraser
123
>> > Isn't taiji all about old men being able to beat young men?
> >
> > And he's now in Wales.
> >
>
> New South Wales?
Old West Wales.
Mike Sigman
>
> Love to but I'm 2000 miles away on the other side of the country. I am
not
> really into making challenge matches. I'm too afraid of biting off more
> than I can chew. But I love seeing guys who talk a lot of shit have to
back
> it up and fall short. I am pretty respectful of other people when not
> talking shit on the internet. If trouble comes my way I'll go into action
> but I don't go looking for it. I get enough injuries in training.
Actually, my bad... someone just told me that Erle has emigrated to Wales.
Maybe he should change his name to "Jonah" as long as he lives there.
Mike
Mike Sigman
> "Mike Sigman" <mikes...@bresnan.net> wrote:
>
> > "Grappler240" <grapp...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> > news:20040420220128...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> > > >What's the URL to the Gracie Fan Club? I'd like to go read their
> > > >promotional stuff.
> > >
> > > www.suckmyballsmikesigman.com
> > >
> >
> > I think the link is broken. Couldn't find the page. :^)
>
> I think what you meant to say was that Grap's balls don't appear to be
> there.
>
No, I found those OK... they were at alt.microscopic.life.
Mike
Chas
> Actually, my bad... someone just told me that Erle has emigrated to Wales.
It's where Australians get to go if they're good.
Chas
Sandy Breon
do
> well in a "street" fight??
Sporting events have rules. No attacks to the throat/eyes, which is a part
of Erle's repertoire.
> the events are closer to the real thing than you think. Besides...you
putz'es
> can't fight anyhoo....sport or "street"...so what's the difference?
Wait a minute. I've previously mentioned that I have a great respect for
grappling. I was a high school wrestler myself, and would use it in a self
defense situation. And besides, aren't the some of the joint locks ("Na" in
taiji) similar in both jujitsu and taiji??
Sandy
Sandy Breon
> Did you read what I posted? Renzo offered to give him a no rules fight. He
> could do any dim mak he wanted.
And if someone died in the contest, then what? Would that prove that jujitsu
is better than taiji, or that Renzo is a better fighter than Montaigue?
Sandy Breon
> >However, after looking at some clips of Erle's fighting system, and
reading
> >some materials on his website there are excellent fighting principles -
>
> so, even if he, himself cannot fight....you respect his ability to TALK a
good
> game??
>
I'm curious. Have you looked at any of his self defense video clips? What
specific self defense advice that he mentions is incorrect?
Mike Sigman
"Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ubSdndD02Zu...@comcast.com...
You mean... if they don't welsh on their debts?
Mike
Sandy Breon
> the better fighter.
Better fighter - true. Better martial art - a totally different story.
> Which is exactly what martial arts are about.
>
Hmmm...the last time I checked, martial arts was about defending yourself,
not this machissmo stuff and a lot of chest thumping. As far as which art is
better, that is fun to debate, but I think arts work out better for
different people/body types.
Chas
> > if you can't survive in "sporting event" then how do you ever expect to
> do
> > well in a "street" fight??
> Sporting events have rules. No attacks to the throat/eyes, which is a part
> of Erle's repertoire.
It isn't even that.
Street fights have no formalization. Most of the fights I've won have been
against guys who should have beat me; would have if we'd been in a ring with
a bell and whatever. I've won by exploiting some advantage that they didn't
consider because it wasn't part of their repertoire- if I'd'a had to bust
heads with them straight up, they would have prevailed.
There is no doubt that Erle has skill, and that he's used it productively.
Whether it's 'taiji' or not is a matter for semantics, but he does whatever
he does pretty up and walking good. Whether he's willing to gratuitously
hurt someone over a common bet is yet another thing.
chas
weirdwolf
s...@bresnan.com:
I do hope ewe two are feeling suitably sheepish over these wooly minded
jokes about the Taffs
Ted
--
Evil is such a negative term........
I prefer differently moraled.
\ /
0 0
°
~
Y
Chas
> Hmmm...the last time I checked, martial arts was about defending yourself,
No, and that's a real problem in perception. Learning to attack is far more
difficult and sophisticated than being defensive- everybody trains to be
defensive, so an effective attack against a trained opponent is a bitch.
Attacking is what allows a less equipped fighter to maybe prevail over a
better one.
> not this machissmo stuff and a lot of chest thumping.
See, that's what women and people like you think.
Machismo is about being all that you can be, and taking responsiblity for
it. Remember that machismo is a group thing, not an individual one- it has
to accommodate all the other guys being macho at the same time you are. The
excessive politeness is soas not to either give insult or suffer it- lest
you have to do something about it.
It's the same thing for 'Feminina', but for chicks.
> As far as which art is
> better, that is fun to debate, but I think arts work out better for
> different people/body types.
No doubt about it.
The artificial distinction between percussion and grappling arts, generally
for purposes of sport, is simply inapplicable to 'real' fighting- I've been
hugging and pugging all my life, and if I didn't recognize an immediate
advantage in practicing more sophisticated skills, I wouldn't waste a breath
on them.
Chas
Badger North
<lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote:
>> Yeah, because martial arts is about... um... I forget...
>
>You've been screwing around with that Memory Specific Death Touch again?
>
>Can I borrow it?
Sure, it's over by the headgear... I think...
Badger Jones
www.youngforest.ca
Chas
> > It's where Australians get to go if they're good.
> You mean... if they don't welsh on their debts?
or expose their rarebits.
Chas
Badger North
<ssb...@asl4roisdfkc.com> wrote:
>> >Good point. However, a confrontation involving serious injury/death to
>> >one/both of the combatants would have been meaningless and the antithesis
>of
>> >martial arts.
>>
>> Yeah, because martial arts is about... um... I forget...
>>
>> So why does it have to be to serious injury or death? Why couldn't
>> one of them say "enough", or tap out?
>
>Because with those high stakes, I doubt either one would "tap out".
So don't make it a choice - Renzo can choke Erle out, or Erle can dim
mak Renzo until he passes out.
>Furthermore, the true test would have to be a life/death situation, don't
>you think? Otherwise it would just be a sporting event.
Challenge matches were, up until comparatively recently, an accepted
part of a martial artist's career. Then this "too deadly to reveal my
skills" stuff started up. Well, the pendulum has shifted the other
way again.
Badger Jones
www.youngforest.ca
weirdwolf
s...@comcast.com:
Well I hate to ram it home like this, but keep making jokes you'll end
up with the Welsh ninja clan after you screaming Dai! Dai! Dai!
I know I shouldn't leek information like this but I thought I ought to
warn you.
Badger North
<chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> So why does it have to be to serious injury or death? Why couldn't
>> one of them say "enough", or tap out?
>
>Well, Badger, because if you don't break it, they don't think it works.
>The skills involved are pretty sophisticated. Not only would you have to
>learn to do it at all, you'd have to learn to mitigate it to demonstrable
>levels.
That's great, but challenge matches have been in vogue since Ook stole
Mook's banana. Before we need to worry about whether Erle can
mitigate the effects, we have to wonder if he can do the skill in the
first place.
>Ask Randall Goodwin about dim mak- have him tell you how his arm still
>feels.
Was it Erle who did it? I'd like to see Randall again, whether for
training or just shooting the shit, but if I'm going to ask him
something, I'd like to make sure my attributions are correct.
Badger Jones
www.youngforest.ca
Badger North
wrote:
>>> The difference between them is that Renzo actually fights.
>>
>>and he's only 15 years younger, and doesn't have diabetes.
>
>Excuses are the favorite tool of the incompetent.
Oh? I just lose the paperwork, usually.
Badger Jones
www.youngforest.ca
Grappler240
>> there.
>>
>
>No, I found those OK... they were at alt.microscopic.life.
good one.
bravo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
"You can carve it on a bowling pin and cram it,for all I care."
-Gichoke, Jan. 21, 2002
Kirk Lawson
Which is why my wife still hasn't collected my life insurance policy...
Peace favor your sword (IH)
--
"In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or
knowledge of their use."
-Achille Marozzo, 1536
--
"...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial
artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise."
-Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts
Dan Winsor
>
> That's great, but challenge matches have been in vogue since Ook stole
> Mook's banana.
That bastard! Let's get him!
--
Dan Winsor
Soy un poco loco en el coco.
Fraser Johnston
Looks like I've got fuck all chance of getting there then.
Fraser
Sandy Breon
> So don't make it a choice - Renzo can choke Erle out, or Erle can dim
> mak Renzo until he passes out.
And what if one kills the other on pay-per-view? Can you imagine the outrage
in the world and the ramifications?
> >Furthermore, the true test would have to be a life/death situation, don't
> >you think? Otherwise it would just be a sporting event.
>
> Challenge matches were, up until comparatively recently, an accepted
> part of a martial artist's career. Then this "too deadly to reveal my
> skills" stuff started up. Well, the pendulum has shifted the other
> way again.
I am not studying martial arts to make challenges to other styles. If I ever
have my own dojo and someone comes in off the street and challenges me in my
own dojo, then sure, I'll fight. If that is what you mean by challenge
matches, then sure. But I have no plans in making challenges to other styles
in the area. Collaboration on the other hand, would be nice. Much like Bruce
Lee-Chuck Norris did. I think a lot of martial artists train together and
colloborate to share ideas, but I wouldn't call that part challenging.
Overall I am studying for health reasons, to help defend against agressive
drunks, the common mugger, street punks, etc.
Karim Rashad
>> > Actually, my bad... someone just told me that Erle has emigrated to
>> >> Wales.
>>
>> It's where Australians get to go if they're good.
>
So where do you go if you're bad? New Zealand?
--
Karim Rashad <remove SPAMFREE: krashad at SPAMorbisFREEuk dot com>
"We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work on it now."
-O'Brien
Karim Rashad
>> So don't make it a choice - Renzo can choke Erle out, or Erle can dim
>> mak Renzo until he passes out.
>
> And what if one kills the other on pay-per-view? Can you imagine the
> outrage in the world and the ramifications?
Sure, but can you imagine the DVD sales?! The publicity? The online
buzz? It would go down well.
Kirk Lawson
>
> >
> > So don't make it a choice - Renzo can choke Erle out, or Erle can dim
> > mak Renzo until he passes out.
>
> And what if one kills the other on pay-per-view? Can you imagine the outrage
> in the world and the ramifications?
Boxers have been killed in the ring before. Boxing is still a well
received sport.
Heck, not TOO long ago there was a High School wrestler who was
permanently paralyzed by a technique. Did *YOU* hear about it?
Fraser Johnston
"Karim Rashad" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.04.21....@privacy.net...
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:50:44 +0800, Fraser Johnston wrote:
> >> > Actually, my bad... someone just told me that Erle has emigrated to
> >> >> Wales.
> >>
> >> It's where Australians get to go if they're good.
> >
> > Looks like I've got fuck all chance of getting there then.
>
> So where do you go if you're bad? New Zealand?
Tasmania.
Fraser
Kirk Lawson
>
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:50:44 +0800, Fraser Johnston wrote:
> >> > Actually, my bad... someone just told me that Erle has emigrated to
> >> >> Wales.
> >>
> >> It's where Australians get to go if they're good.
> >
> > Looks like I've got fuck all chance of getting there then.
>
> So where do you go if you're bad? New Zealand?
Australia.
;-)
Fraser Johnston
"Kirk Lawson" <lklawson_...@heapy.com> wrote in message
news:40868FE2...@heapy.com...
> Karim Rashad wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:50:44 +0800, Fraser Johnston wrote:
> > >> > Actually, my bad... someone just told me that Erle has emigrated to
> > >> >> Wales.
> > >>
> > >> It's where Australians get to go if they're good.
> > >
> > > Looks like I've got fuck all chance of getting there then.
> >
> > So where do you go if you're bad? New Zealand?
>
> Australia.
>
> ;-)
When we're bad we're good.
Fraser
Badger North
Chas
>.... Before we need to worry about whether Erle can
> mitigate the effects, we have to wonder if he can do the skill in the
> first place.
No need to wonder- jut step to him.
> >Ask Randall Goodwin about dim mak- have him tell you how his arm still
> >feels.
> Was it Erle who did it? I'd like to see Randall again, whether for
> training or just shooting the shit, but if I'm going to ask him
> something, I'd like to make sure my attributions are correct.
He'll remember, no sweat.
Chas
Chas
> Challenge matches were, up until comparatively recently, an accepted
> part of a martial artist's career. Then this "too deadly to reveal my
> skills" stuff started up. Well, the pendulum has shifted the other
> way again.
The State didn't prosecute for deaders either.
You people are all worried about whether your knife is 3" or 4, soas not to
be 'illegal'- tell me your challenge matches aren't the same.
Chas
mark goldberg
> mark goldberg <msgol...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:u9ghc.74279$_g4.14...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
>
>>That guy must be near 60, so it's not much a fight.
>>And he's in Australia, and Renzo lives in NJ no, and his school is in NYC?
>
>
>
> Isn't taiji all about old men being able to beat young men?
>
> And he's now in Wales.
>
>
no ... that's yubawazi
Mark
Sucka
>taiji) similar in both jujitsu and taiji??
>
>Sandy
No. Not even close.
Trav
Sucka
>consider because it wasn't part of their repertoire-
WTF do you think BJJ is if not this???
Trav
Sucka
>> mak Renzo until he passes out.
>
>And what if one kills the other on pay-per-view? Can you imagine the outrage
>in the world and the ramifications?
Renzo has fought MANY fakes like this clown and has never had to resort to
killing one of them. Hell, he only bit Tico when Tico bit him first.
Trav
Sucka
>> there.
>>
>>
>
>Fraser
No...she has them stored in a jar above her fireplace.
Trav
Badger North
<chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Badger North" <young_...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>.... Before we need to worry about whether Erle can
>> mitigate the effects, we have to wonder if he can do the skill in the
>> first place.
>
>No need to wonder- jut step to him.
Just looked out the window, and apparently the Canada-Wales Bridge is
still closed for repairs. Fuckin' government make-work project...
Anyway, I digress.
Unlike Erle, I'm not the one saying my dim mak skills could defeat
grapplers, and then demurring when one speaks up.
>> >Ask Randall Goodwin about dim mak- have him tell you how his arm still
>> >feels.
>> Was it Erle who did it? I'd like to see Randall again, whether for
>> training or just shooting the shit, but if I'm going to ask him
>> something, I'd like to make sure my attributions are correct.
>
>He'll remember, no sweat.
I'm sure he will, and I'm sure I will ask when next I see him.
However, if it wasn't Erle who did it, it ain't real germane.
Badger Jones
www.youngforest.ca
Kirk Lawson
> > > So where do you go if you're bad? New Zealand?
> >
> > Australia.
> >
> > ;-)
>
> When we're bad we're good.
Cue Chas...
123
> > Isn't taiji all about old men being able to beat young men?
> >
> > And he's now in Wales.
> no ... that's yubawazi
So by the time it takes to get to be really able to use it you are too old
to use it?
Chas
> So by the time it takes to get to be really able to use it you are too old
> to use it?
no; it's an escalating thing.
First you learn how to do it- then do it well- then do it well enough to
demonstrate without causing harm.
There are fighting applications at every level of proficiency.
Chas
Grappler240
>grappling.
i got respect for Bill Gates....but I can't program a computer worth a crap.
> I was a high school wrestler myself,
when's the last time you trained??
>And besides, aren't the some of the joint locks ("Na" in
>taiji) similar in both jujitsu and taiji??
>
not even close to the same stuff. BJJ works....Taiji doesn't.
>Sporting events have rules. No attacks to the throat/eyes, which is a part
>of Erle's repertoire.
Okay....please remember.....we are bound by those rules too. If you are in a
fight with a superior fighter....do you think for a minhute that he won't also
fight dirty?? Fighting is about one thing: POSITION. He who controls
position....wins. We butter our bread in BJJ/MMA by DOMINATING positionally.
It's our game. If you can't get yourself into position to utilize your eye
gouges/groin attacks....how do you expect to be able to rely upon them. It's
hard to gouge my eyes from inside my triangle choke. And it's impossible to
attack my groin while i'm sitting astride your chest and pounding your face til
it's two dimensional.
Again....if you can't survive in a ring....how do you expect to make it on the
"street".
you just don't get it, do you??
-g
Grappler240
>The artificial distinction between percussion and grappling arts, generally
>for purposes of sport, is simply inapplicable to 'real' fighting-
how so? Years of empirical evidence would seem to contradict you.
Mike Sigman
"Grappler240" <grapp...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040421132108...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> >No doubt about it.
> >The artificial distinction between percussion and grappling arts,
generally
> >for purposes of sport, is simply inapplicable to 'real' fighting-
>
> how so? Years of empirical evidence would seem to contradict you.
>
Just out of curiosity.... in a fight where 3 guys surprise you and jump your
ass, which one do you mount so you can dominate him positionally?
Mike
Pierre Honeyman
> Badger North wrote:
> >
> > That's great, but challenge matches have been in vogue since Ook stole
> > Mook's banana.
>
> That bastard! Let's get him!
Hey! It was fair retaliation: that damn monkey stole his peach!
Pierre
Grappler240
>> mitigate the effects, we have to wonder if he can do the skill in the
>> first place.
>
>No need to wonder- jut step to him.
apparently...he will simply back down if you do. Expecially if your last name
is Gracie.
Earle knows he's full of it. He just doesn't want any of us knowing...that'd
be a financial headache for him.
Sandy Breon
>
> when's the last time you trained??
I took a judo class in college, and took it up again some after college. I
quit because it was grueling and somewhat impractical as a self defense art,
and was all about competition/scoring. But that was like 10 years ago.
> >And besides, aren't the some of the joint locks ("Na" in
> >taiji) similar in both jujitsu and taiji??
> >
>
> not even close to the same stuff. BJJ works....Taiji doesn't.
I don't doubt BJJ works. Are you saying that BJJ has totally different
(improved) ways of doing wrist locks/elbow locks than arts such as taiji and
aikido?
>Sporting events have rules. No attacks to the throat/eyes, which is a part
> >of Erle's repertoire.
>
> Okay....please remember.....we are bound by those rules too. If you are
in a
> fight with a superior fighter....do you think for a minhute that he won't
also
> fight dirty?? Fighting is about one thing: POSITION. He who controls
> position....wins. We butter our bread in BJJ/MMA by DOMINATING
positionally.
> It's our game. If you can't get yourself into position to utilize your
eye
> gouges/groin attacks....how do you expect to be able to rely upon them.
It's
> hard to gouge my eyes from inside my triangle choke. And it's impossible
to
> attack my groin while i'm sitting astride your chest and pounding your
face til
> it's two dimensional.
I agree that BJJ can fight dirty, in many ways. However, most martial arts
are about POSITION, not just BJJ. Are you saying that BJJ has no weaknesses?
> Again....if you can't survive in a ring....how do you expect to make it on
the
> "street".
There is absolutely no room for improvisation in the ring. How would Jackie
Chan do in a ring? He would get creamed!!! But put him in a room full of
objects and props that could be used as weapons and look out!
Sandy
Posthumandude
>Chan do in a ring? He would get creamed!!! But put him in a room full of
>objects and props that could be used as weapons and look out!
Good lord.
Mike Sigman
"Grappler240" <grapp...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040421132108...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> >The artificial distinction between percussion and grappling arts,
generally
> >for purposes of sport, is simply inapplicable to 'real' fighting-
>
> how so? Years of empirical evidence would seem to contradict you.
Out of curiosity, what's the emirical evidence on BJJ and multiple
opponents? ;^)
Mike
Sandy Breon
I thought you'd enjoy that one! lol
Grappler240
>quit because it was grueling and somewhat impractical
you think judo is impractical and you do that taiji crap....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
you must be a freakin puss, man.
>I don't doubt BJJ works. Are you saying that BJJ has totally different
>(improved) ways of doing wrist locks/elbow locks than arts such as taiji and
>aikido?
yes....different WAYS.
>I agree that BJJ can fight dirty, in many ways. However, most martial arts
>are about POSITION, not just BJJ. Are you saying that BJJ has no weaknesses?
yeah....fighting a BETTER BJJer/MMAer.
other than that...no. Where you are concerned, for all practical purposes...we
are all but invincible.
Grappler240
>ass, which one do you mount so you can dominate him positionally?
>
the one remaining after I shoot the first two.
next question.
Grappler240
>opponents? ;^)
July 7th, 2001. VFW club, Conway, AR. A young patrol officer is jumped by two
patrons he had responded to remove. He beat them both savagely using BJJ/MMA
and without any backup. His first course of action was to take the first down
and put that one out...then take the other one down and pound that one til HE
quit.
that patrolman was ME.
@hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge
<ssb...@asl4roisdfkc.com> wrote:
>I took a judo class in college, and took it up again some after college. I
>quit because it was grueling and somewhat impractical as a self defense art
BwaHaHaHaHa!
Yeah, you're much better off in Tai Chi.
Sandy Breon
I
> >quit because it was grueling and somewhat impractical as a self defense
art
>
> BwaHaHaHaHa!
>
> Yeah, you're much better off in Tai Chi.
You're right. I am better off in both healthwise and in self defense
applications.
Mike Sigman
"Grappler240" <grapp...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> >Just out of curiosity.... in a fight where 3 guys surprise you and jump
your
> >ass, which one do you mount so you can dominate him positionally?
> >
>
> the one remaining after I shoot the first two.
>
> next question.
So if you take BJJ you should carry a gun for protection? I thought you
meant *BJJ* has a proven track-record in street fights. You must have meant
in *select* street fights. :^) I'll bet you haven't been in love like
this since you were a teenager.
Mike
Mike Sigman
"Grappler240" <grapp...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> >Out of curiosity, what's the emirical evidence on BJJ and multiple
> >opponents? ;^)
>
> July 7th, 2001. VFW club, Conway, AR. A young patrol officer is jumped
by two
> patrons he had responded to remove. He beat them both savagely using
BJJ/MMA
> and without any backup. His first course of action was to take the first
down
> and put that one out...then take the other one down and pound that one til
HE
> quit.
>
> that patrolman was ME.
>
Gee, I could tell a couple of personal reminiscences, too, but I'm not sure
that would prove much other than that I had a misspent youth. I have
nothing against BJJ, as I've said before, but the overly-staunch braggadocio
from the proponents of a lot of different martial artists, all certain their
way is best, sort of gets old after a few years. You should know better,
copper.
:^)
Mike
Grappler240
>applications.
>
wanna bet?? where are you and we can hook you up with some proof.
just give us a general area and we'll fight SOMEONE willing to fight you.
Rules, no rules, whatev er.
or are you just another coward who talks too much??
Sandy Breon
I was referring to judo. You're telling me that by practicing judo barefoot,
on wrestling mat, wearing/using a gi, with no kick/punch defense techniques,
that I am better off than taichi in a self defense situation?
> just give us a general area and we'll fight SOMEONE willing to fight you.
> Rules, no rules, whatev er.
You're going to find a judo practitioner for me to compete against?
> or are you just another coward who talks too much??
Did you read my previous posts? I have already said that if I was in a self
defense situation right now, I would use my wrestling skills. Eventually, I
want to use Taiji primarily but with wrestling skills as well.
Sandy
Grappler240
>on wrestling mat, wearing/using a gi, with no kick/punch defense techniques,
>that I am better off than taichi in a self defense situation?
yes....because you were practicing against an active LIVE opponent. That is
better than ANY other kind of practice. 1 year of live training is better than
20 years of dead crap.
>You're going to find a judo practitioner for me to compete against?
i was thinking more like a beginner in mma/bjj or subgrappling. no more than a
year's exp.
>Did you read my previous posts? I have already said that if I was in a self
>defense situation right now, I would use my wrestling skills.
yeah....which makes no sense. If you KNOW what training is worth while....then
why waste time donig anything else? HS wrestling is a perfect foundation for
bjj/mma/subgrappling. what gives man?? you don't like contact or something??
be honest...you can't take the hardcore training?? casue tai chi will NEVER
prepare you for a real fight. Not in a million years.
-g