The U.S. Ranks #37 in Health Care, Just Ahead of Slovenia.
WannabeSo...@hotmail.com
The United States slipped to number 37 in the world in terms of health
care.
Watch Michael Moore's "Sicko" on America's health care:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiEl1EcqnAY&mode=related&search
Have money to drop bombs but no money for health care. Nice country.
Happy 4th of July.
mike...@yahoo.com
Get over yourself bud. We give out free medical in this country to
illegals until we can't give any more, just cuz we're that nice. And
the countries that have govt medical aren't that great off either.
*High* taxes and you have to wait forever fer shit. France is #1
huh? Guess it depends on your point of view, like who's actually
paying for it.
And nice plug about Michael Moron...but his new flic looks about as
informative as Bowling for Columbine.
Pass.
Mike
WannabeSo...@hotmail.com
<mike...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:
1183549075....@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
It is easy to ignore your health care when the whole country is
inhabited by morons like you who believe everything your ruler tells
you. Simpletons like youself deserve everything you don't have.
I live in Canada just across your northern border. We have universal
health care. Our hospitals won't refuse to treat or discharge their
patients just because they cannot afford the cost.
We all share the same medical resources, so the hospitals prioritize
who gets treated sooner by recommendations from your own family
physician and the medical specialists. The last time I had to wait for
2 month for my MRI but I was happy because I knew it was not urgent. I
know that when people get sent into hospital in real emergency
situation they can get anything done immediately because the hospitals
prioritize the use of medical resources so that non-emergency users
won't horde all the medical equipment.
Wannabe
=======
YumYumPandaburger
> <mikejc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:
>
> 1183549075.549011.56...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
In Belgium there's not really government funded health care, but
everybody is obliged to have a basic health insurance which will cover
most costs. You can choose between a number of "mutualiteiten" or
service providers (about 4 different ones iirc). The cover they have
to provide is decided by the goverment and includes partial
reimbursement of medication, doctor's fees, hospitalisation etc.Things
like aesthetical surgery are not reimbursed (except in some cases
where there really is a medical problem as well).
Once you go over a certain cost per year (level depending on your
income level) the government will support a part of these costs.
Illegal aliens will receive urgent health care if needed, but not
more.
There are no waiting lists for things such as MRI's. If I call the
hospital today I'll be there later this week and my health care
provided will reimburse me for the costs if the MRI was prescribed by
my doctor (can be GP or specialist).
I choose which GP I go to, or which hospital I go to, or whether I
want to go straight to a specialist without seeing a GP first.
I haven't heard a politician yet that wants to change this system
(except for splitting between Flanders & Wallonie off course, but that
doesn't change the system itself).
h...@nospam.org
>On Jul 4, 12:02 am, WannabeSomeoneCa...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> The United States slipped to number 37 in the world in terms of health
>> care.
>>
>> Watch Michael Moore's "Sicko" on America's health care:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiEl1EcqnAY&mode=related&search
>>
>> Have money to drop bombs but no money for health care. Nice country.
>>
>> Happy 4th of July.
>
>Get over yourself bud. We give out free medical in this country to
>illegals until we can't give any more, just cuz we're that nice.
go try waiting in line in the ER in an inner city hospital sometime
without insurance. See how great the medical care is.
Hal
WannabeSo...@hotmail.com
"YumYumPandaburger" <theorig...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
1183552083....@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> In Belgium there's not really government funded health care, but
> everybody is obliged to have a basic health insurance which will cover
> most costs. You can choose between a number of "mutualiteiten" or
> service providers (about 4 different ones iirc). The cover they have
> to provide is decided by the goverment and includes partial
> reimbursement of medication, doctor's fees, hospitalisation etc.Things
> like aesthetical surgery are not reimbursed (except in some cases
> where there really is a medical problem as well).
>
Medical insurance was run by government and used to be optional. I
remember I used to pay the premium of about 15 dollars a month, but
some 20 years ago the government simply picked up the cost of the
premium so it became free.
> Once you go over a certain cost per year (level depending on your
> income level) the government will support a part of these costs.
>
Our drugs are not covered unless you are over 65 years of age. I have
my own company drug plan. You can still get drugs if you are poor
because we have a welfare system.
> Illegal aliens will receive urgent health care if needed, but not
> more.
>
Our illegals may be granted access to health care, but surely everyone
will be treated in an emergency. Visitors can buy private insurance
like Blue Cross or something.
> There are no waiting lists for things such as MRI's. If I call the
> hospital today I'll be there later this week and my health care
> provided will reimburse me for the costs if the MRI was prescribed by
> my doctor (can be GP or specialist).
>
> I choose which GP I go to, or which hospital I go to, or whether I
> want to go straight to a specialist without seeing a GP first.
>
If everyone heads straight to the specialists first, wouldn't the
resource of specialists be tied up by those who don't really need the
specialist's attention or can simply be treated by a GP?
> I haven't heard a politician yet that wants to change this system
> (except for splitting between Flanders & Wallonie off course, but that
> doesn't change the system itself).
>
Lucky that you don't live in the U.S.
Wannabe
=======
YumYumPandaburger
> "YumYumPandaburger" <theoriginald...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
>
> 1183552083.935047.19...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > In Belgium there's not really government funded health care, but
> > everybody is obliged to have a basic health insurance which will cover
> > most costs. You can choose between a number of "mutualiteiten" or
> > service providers (about 4 different ones iirc). The cover they have
> > to provide is decided by the goverment and includes partial
> > reimbursement of medication, doctor's fees, hospitalisation etc.Things
> > like aesthetical surgery are not reimbursed (except in some cases
> > where there really is a medical problem as well).
>
> Medical insurance was run by government and used to be optional. I
> remember I used to pay the premium of about 15 dollars a month, but
> some 20 years ago the government simply picked up the cost of the
> premium so it became free.
How is the cost controlled if there is only one service provider with
one fixed cost (the government)?
> > Once you go over a certain cost per year (level depending on your
> > income level) the government will support a part of these costs.
>
> Our drugs are not covered unless you are over 65 years of age. I have
> my own company drug plan. You can still get drugs if you are poor
> because we have a welfare system.
Our drugs are covered if prescribed. An antibiotics treatment that was
prescribed by my GP will cost me 1 or 2 €.
If I go to the pharmacy on my own initiative and buy standard
painkillers then I pay full charge and nobody will reimburse me off
course.
> > Illegal aliens will receive urgent health care if needed, but not
> > more.
>
> Our illegals may be granted access to health care, but surely everyone
> will be treated in an emergency. Visitors can buy private insurance
> like Blue Cross or something.
Our illegals only get very urgent health care. They might in
exceptional cases get approval for other medical costs but this is
very rare and would have to be approved by the commune where they are
living on a case by case basis.
> > There are no waiting lists for things such as MRI's. If I call the
> > hospital today I'll be there later this week and my health care
> > provided will reimburse me for the costs if the MRI was prescribed by
> > my doctor (can be GP or specialist).
>
> > I choose which GP I go to, or which hospital I go to, or whether I
> > want to go straight to a specialist without seeing a GP first.
>
> If everyone heads straight to the specialists first, wouldn't the
> resource of specialists be tied up by those who don't really need the
> specialist's attention or can simply be treated by a GP?
No it becomes more and more interesting for GP's to study a few years
more and become specialists (who make a shitload more money anyway).
There is an overage of GP's here so there is already quite a bit of
motivation for them to become specialists (which is only possible for
the top grades at university anyway).
Also a specialist will charge more money while the service provider
only reimburses a same amount (so the cost for the consumer
increases).
Herbert Cannon
>
> It is easy to ignore your health care when the whole country is
> inhabited by morons like you who believe everything your ruler tells
> you. Simpletons like youself deserve everything you don't have.
Well, we hardly want to take the advice who thinks Pol Pot was a freedom
fighter and a nice man.
>
> I live in Canada just across your northern border. We have universal
> health care. Our hospitals won't refuse to treat or discharge their
> patients just because they cannot afford the cost.
Yeah but for how long.
> We all share the same medical resources, so the hospitals prioritize
> who gets treated sooner by recommendations from your own family
> physician and the medical specialists. The last time I had to wait for
> 2 month for my MRI but I was happy because I knew it was not urgent.
Really I can get one in about two days and the same day if life threatening.
I guess you dont invest enough in your nanny care.
I
> know that when people get sent into hospital in real emergency
> situation they can get anything done immediately because the hospitals
> prioritize the use of medical resources so that non-emergency users
> won't horde all the medical equipment.
It is not based on urgency fool it is based on availability. If you dont
have enough to go around you dont get it - get it.
>
Herbert Cannon
> go try waiting in line in the ER in an inner city hospital sometime
> without insurance. See how great the medical care is.
Which you have done how many times?
WannabeSo...@hotmail.com
> How is the cost controlled if there is only one service provider with
> one fixed cost (the government)?
In private insurance, there are many service providers and one fixed
cost for each particular service provider. So the private insurance
companies will pick-and-choose the clients. They tend to cherry-pick
only the healthy ones and reject the sickies so as to maximize their
profit.
If you look at the big picture, all the private insurance companies
are drawing clients from the same pool of people, and there is only
one totally cost of treating those people. So when the government is
the sole service provider, there will be no need for cherry-picking
the clients.
Health care is the fundamental necessity for a society. If the
universal health care system is run properly, it is far more efficient
than run by numerous out-for-profit insurance companies. Look at the
huge assets and magnificent corporate headquarters of those insurance
companies and you can see where your insurance money went.
Same goes for car insurance. In Canada we have some provinces that
have government-run universal auto-insurance. The insurance premium in
those provinces are generally half of the insurance premium in
provinces with private auto-insurance.
Theoretically you should have the same total amount of insurance
claims each year in the province regardless of how the insurance is
run. When it is run by the government, there is no need to cherry-pick
the drivers, and no need for profit to turn into corporate assets and
to build all those magnificent corporate headquarters.
Wananbe
=======
Mark Goldberg
>
>
> The United States slipped to number 37 in the world in terms of health
> care.
>
>
> Have money to drop bombs but no money for health care. Nice country.
>
> Happy 4th of July.
>
Oh, bullshit, you asshole fag. Here's the actual story, out of the
mouths of people who aren't whore's like you.
Mark
--------------
June 29, 2007
Mike Moore is Master of Quarter Truths
By Drs. Michael A. Glueck & Robert J. Cihak
If you like silly comedy films that are over-hyped, over-spun and
filled with half and quarter truths leading to falso conclusions, then
you will love, "Sicko," Michael Moore's latest cynical and hypocritical
agenda creation.
On Tuesday, happy Mike appeared on The David Letterman Show to tell us
that Cuba had the world's best healthcare system.
Why? About seven years ago, the World Healthcare Organization (A matter
of WHO) said so. It didn't matter to Moore and others that the winner of
that charade was determined by calculating the percentage of the GNP
that country spent on healthcare. Since Cuba has virtually no GNP an
outlay of a buck fifty could win that propaganda party.
Then Moore spewed out the often repeated but always incorrect cry that
45 million Americans have no healthcare coverage. If that is so why
aren't there tens of millions of us lying in the streets on IV lines or
just simply dead?
Michael Moore¹s film "Sicko," which premieres June 29, will be used as a
propaganda piece for those who say "It's time for guaranteed healthcare
in America." The California Nurses Association/National Nurses
Organizing Committee will join other nursing organizations that are
hosting 3,000 screenings.
A press conference on Capitol Hill featured clips as well as testimony
from individuals featured in the film and congressmen who favor greater
government involvement in medicine.
Moore wants to remove the profit motive from medicine and to eliminate
insurance companies. He thinks that the proposals of Hillary Rodham
Clinton, Barack Obama, and John Edwards don't go nearly far enough.
Showing Cuban doctors scurrying around to care for some 9/11 rescue
workers that he brought over in a commandeered fishing boat, Moore
suggests that Cubans live longer than Americans (all because of their
wonderful socialized healthcare). Aren't these the same guys who botched
premier Fidel Castro's stomach surgery and had to call in "The Spanish
surgeon."
Film maker Stuart Browning is firing back with a new internet movie
debunking one of the central premises of Moore's "docutribe": that 45
million Americans have no health insurance‹and no access to medical care.
The nine-minute film can be viewed at www.freemarketcure.com, along with
some short pieces portraying the reality of rationing in
Canada‹including The Lemon, which shows what the Canadian system has in
common with the Soviet-era economies that produced the Trabant.
Notes Grace-Marie Turner, in a June 22 Galen Institute commentary,
"'Sicko.' Need We Say More? Heaven forbid that we would wind up making
policy by propaganda, because that is exactly what would happen if
anyone were to base any serious health reform proposals on Moore's film."
This is not a must see, waste your popcorn and movie money, film unless
you believe in bad science fiction.
Editor's Note: Michael Arnold Glueck, M.D., wrote this week's commentary.
--------
Michael Moore's ‘Sicko’ propoganda
By Rich Lowry
http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | Is all that ails the U.S. health-care
system that it's not run by a communist dictatorship? That has long been
a premise of apologists for Fidel Castro who extol the virtues of
medical care on his totalitarian island nation.
Left-wing documentary filmmaker Michael Moore is reviving this Cold War
relic of an argument in his new movie on health care, "Sicko," which
premieres in a few weeks and favorably compares the Cuban health-care
system to ours. Moore ostentatiously took a few sick 9/11 workers to
Cuba for care. "If they can do this," Moore told Time magazine,
referring to the Cubans, "we can do it."
All that the Cuban government has done, however, is run a decades-long
propaganda campaign to convince credulous or dishonest people that its
health-care system is worth emulating. These people believe — or pretend
to believe for ideological reasons — that a dictatorship can crush a
country's economy and spirit, yet still deliver exemplary medical care.
Cuban health care works only for the select few: if you are a
high-ranking member of the party or the military and have access to
top-notch clinics; or a health-care tourist who can pay in foreign
currency at a special facility catering to foreigners; or a
documentarian who can be relied upon to produce a lickspittle film
whitewashing the system.
Ordinary Cubans experience the wasteland of the real system. Even
aspirin and Pepto-Bismol can be rare and there's a black market for
them. According to a report in the Canadian newspaper the National Post:
"Hospitals are falling apart, surgeons lack basic supplies and must
reuse latex gloves. Patients must buy their sutures on the black market
and provide bed sheets and food for extended hospital stays."
How could it be any different when Cuba embarked on a campaign of
economic self-sabotage with the revolution of 1959? It went from third
in per capita food consumption in Latin America to near the bottom,
according to a State Department report. Per capita consumption of basic
foodstuffs like cereals and meat actually has declined from the 1950s.
There are fewer cars (true of no other country in the hemisphere), and
development of electrical power has trailed every other Latin American
country except Haiti.
But the routine medical care, we're supposed to believe, is superb. The
statistic frequently cited for this proposition is that Cuba has the
lowest infant mortality rate in Latin America. Put aside that the
reflexively dishonest Cuban government is the ultimate source for these
figures. Cuba had the lowest infant mortality rate in Latin America
prior to the revolution and has lost ground to other countries around
the world since. It also has an appallingly high abortion rate, meaning
most problem pregnancies are pre-emptively ended.
Other countries in Latin America have made advances in health without
Cuba's vicious suppression of human rights (which, no doubt, contributes
to the island having the highest suicide rate in Latin America). The way
public health works in Cuba was nicely illustrated by the case of Dr.
Desi Mendoza Rivero, who complained of an outbreak of dengue fever that
the regime preferred to ignore in the late 1990s, and was jailed for his
trouble.
As is always the case with Cuba, anything that's wrong is blamed on the
United States. If there is a shortage of medicine, well, that's because
of the U.S. embargo. But the United States is not the only country in
the world that sells drugs. Cuba could buy them from Europe or
elsewhere, and the U.S. embargo makes an exception for medicines.
The only reason to fantasize about Cuban health care is to stick a
finger in the eye of the Yanquis. For the likes of Michael Moore, the
true glory of Cuba is less its health care than the fact that it is an
enemy of the United States. That's why romanticizing Cuban medicine
isn't just folly, but itself qualifies as a kind of sickness.
--------------
Michael Moore’s “Sicko,” a polemical rant on universal healthcare
falsely advertised as a documentary, is causing Dem presidential
hopefuls nothing but headaches and heartburn, reports the Los Angeles Times:
[U]nlike Al Gore’s film on global warming, which helped rally support on
an equally controversial problem, “Sicko” is creating an awkward
situation for the leading Democratic presidential candidates.
Rejecting Moore’s prescription on healthcare could alienate liberal
activists, who will play a big role in choosing the party’s next
standard-bearer. However, his proposal — wiping out private health
insurance and replacing it with a massive federal program — could be
political poison with the larger electorate. …
Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois
and former Sen. John Edwards of South Carolina [sic] all have staked out
positions sharply at odds with Moore’s approach. But none of them is
eager to have that fact dragged into the spotlight. …
“Sicko” agitates for dismantling the insurance industry, regulating
pharmaceutical companies up the wazoo, and adopting a Canadian-style
socialized healthcare delivery system. Moore hopes his healthcare cure
will gain traction amongst voters after “Sicko’s” general release June 29.
An inconvenient truth that “Sicko” will not tell you: Canadians who have
the financial means to pay out-of-pocket for American-style healthcare,
prefer to come here rather than be subjected to health-threatening waits
for specialists who are all-too-often recruited from second-tier medical
schools in third-world countries. For instance, The Mayo Clinic (which
has branches in Rochester, MN, Jacksonville, FL, and Scottsdale/Phoenix,
AZ) serves an international clientele.
Given his girth, The Stiletto is laying odds that within 10 to 15 years
Moore will suffer a major cardiovascular event – probably a myocardial
or cerebral infarct – and will gratefully avail himself of the best U.S.
medical care that his somewhat considerable fortune can buy. You can bet
he won’t be going to Canada or to Cuba for treatment and rehab.
[Editorial Note: Several years ago, The Stiletto was vacationing in
Norway with two friends. We were all injured when the bus we were riding
in Oslo collided with a car. One friend suffered cuts and bruises, one
fractured her forearm and The Stiletto thought she might have cracked a
rib or two. Police took us to a nearby hospital, where we found out that
our money was no good. No, we weren’t going to get free healthcare. We
were going to get NO healthcare. You see, X-ray films, plaster for casts
and other medical supplies are strictly rationed. The hospital had a set
number of X-ray films, for instance, and could not get restocked if they
ran out before December 31st of that year (it was the end of June). The
ER did not want to “waste” any of their medical supplies on tourists –
even though we would pay cash on the barrelhead – because their own
citizens might have to go without by the end of the year. The Stiletto
nearly caused an international incident to get her friend’s arm casted.
She never did get her ribs X-rayed; turned out they were badly bruised
but not broken. She received no painkillers or other treatment. That’s
socialized medicine in a nutshell.]
YumYumPandaburger
> "YumYumPandaburger" <theoriginald...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
>
Government monopolies on anything rarely result in efficient
operations. It doesn't matter whether you talk about health care,
communications, ...
Competition between insurance providers does force them to work
efficiently. They all have to make sure that their administration,
accounting etc are working fine. Also they all offer the same basic
package to the customer, but each of them can offer additional things
if they want to (at an additional cost).
Cherry picking is not allowed, they cannot refuse to insure people.
Whether you are old, already dying or a healthy 20 yr old does not
matter, same premium, same conditions. For additional health insurance
the insurer can do and charge as he wants, but not for the basic
package.
WannabeSo...@hotmail.com
"Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> wrote in message news:cWNii.
45941$tL1....@newsfe22.lga...
>
>> I
>> know that when people get sent into hospital in real emergency
>> situation they can get anything done immediately because the hospitals
>> prioritize the use of medical resources so that non-emergency users
>> won't horde all the medical equipment.
>
> It is not based on urgency fool it is based on availability. If you dont
> have enough to go around you dont get it - get it.
>>
>
>
You idiot! It is not cost-efficient to have one MRI machine for
everybody.
As I say, fools like you deserve everything you don't have, and
deserve to be sent to Iraq to die for a lie.
WannabeSo...@hotmail.com
>
> Cherry picking is not allowed, they cannot refuse to insure people.
> Whether you are old, already dying or a healthy 20 yr old does not
> matter, same premium, same conditions. For additional health insurance
> the insurer can do and charge as he wants, but not for the basic
> package.
>
It may be true in Belgium, but have you ever wondered what will happen
if all the sickies end up in the same insurance company, and all the
other insurance companies get the healthy ones?
Wannabe
=======
Jerry B. Altzman
> go try waiting in line in the ER in an inner city hospital sometime
> without insurance. See how great the medical care is.
You know what? I *have* been in that position. Unlike you, I actually
live *in* a city. I've been uninsured an in an emergency room (St.
Luke's hospital: July 1989).
If you are in need of urgent care, they don't ask anything about your
insurance.
If you're there because of general nausea or something over which you'd
normally have to wait in your doctor's office for a few hours (because
you're being squeezed in between other patients), you'll have to wait a
few hours; and sometimes you get bumped.
> Hal
//jbaltz
--
jerry b. altzman jba...@altzman.com www.jbaltz.com
thank you for contributing to the heat death of the universe.
Mark Goldberg
>>Get over yourself bud. We give out free medical in this country to
>>illegals until we can't give any more, just cuz we're that nice.
>
>
> go try waiting in line in the ER in an inner city hospital sometime
> without insurance. See how great the medical care is.
>
> Hal
>
They come from around the world to do just that.....
Mark
suds mcduff
> > It is easy to ignore your health care when the whole country is
> > inhabited by morons like you who believe everything your ruler tells
> > you. Simpletons like youself deserve everything you don't have.
>
> Well, we hardly want to take the advice who thinks Pol Pot was a freedom
> fighter and a nice man.
>
>
>
> > I live in Canada just across your northern border. We have universal
> > health care. Our hospitals won't refuse to treat or discharge their
> > patients just because they cannot afford the cost.
>
> Yeah but for how long.
>
> > We all share the same medical resources, so the hospitals prioritize
> > who gets treated sooner by recommendations from your own family
> > physician and the medical specialists. The last time I had to wait for
> > 2 month for my MRI but I was happy because I knew it was not urgent.
>
> Really I can get one in about two days and the same day if life threatening.
> I guess you dont invest enough in your nanny care.
----Damn, where is this modern miracle of health care? My kid's
pediatrician advised me to go the the emergency room
whenever a kid sprained an ankle, because the hospital would take x-
rays on the spot, whereas if I took him in on a regular office visit,
the subsequent referral to an ortho would take about four to six weeks
to an appointment. I can't get a routine appointment to see a pcp in
less than 3 weeks, unless it's an emergency. Even when I get the
appointment, the dr's usually running an hour late. No way to get an
MRI in a couple of days if you're in an HMO. Of course, the wealthy
among us can get one whenever they want, but I suspect they could do
so in Canada as well.
>
> I
>
> > know that when people get sent into hospital in real emergency
> > situation they can get anything done immediately because the hospitals
> > prioritize the use of medical resources so that non-emergency users
> > won't horde all the medical equipment.
>
> It is not based on urgency fool it is based on availability.
----According to several accounts I've read, the care *is* triaged.
If you dont
> have enough to go around you dont get it - get it.
----Unless you got the bucks. Then you'll get it even if you don't
need it.
nemo_outis
@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
I too live in Canada (Alberta). My wife recently had knee surgery (ACL
replacement). Total time (first GP visit to specialist referral to
surgery): 7 weeks (and that only because she took the later of two
alternate surgery dates offered to her). Oh, and recuperative
physiotherapy was also completely paid for (multiple visits, still going
on).
All free (well, not quite - I think they dinged her $20 for renting
crutches).
Oh, and the year before, she had bilateral lens replacements/implants for
cataracts. Time from first specialist visit (specialist doctor, not some
optometrist) to ocular surgery - 3 weeks for the first eye, 4 weeks for the
second (they deliberately stagger them). Everything, including diagnosis,
testing, the surgery itself, & followup visits paid for 100%
Yeah, I'll take Canada's healthcare over the US, thanks.
Regards,
Herbert Cannon
> ----Damn, where is this modern miracle of health care? My kid's
> pediatrician advised me to go the the emergency room
> whenever a kid sprained an ankle, because the hospital would take x-
> rays on the spot, whereas if I took him in on a regular office visit,
> the subsequent referral to an ortho would take about four to six weeks
> to an appointment.
Really my GP can call and get you an appointment that day or the next. Are
you in an HMO?
Many of the specialist are in a large practice and have X ray machines in
their offices with a tech that they employ.
Second, if you are really ill call and ask for the Drs nurse. They will call
you back.
Third, get to know the Dr personally. I have one specialist that returns my
calls. Now that is Nirvana. I dont abuse the privilege. Giveyour Dr a Xmas
present. Does not have to be expensive. They are human and like to be
thanked. I brought a cake to my dentist's office for him and his staff to
thank him for seeing me on an emergency basis. I was in like Flyn after
that.
Fourth, when you pick your GP ask him if I am sick will you work me in that
day. He will usually say yes. If no then find another that will.
Fifth, get past the front desk. It is usually manned by policy following
morons hence ask for the Dr's nurse.
Call around and you can get an appointment easy. I got down once by my
ortho. I simply called another office and got an appt two days later. When
the nurse called me back I said I could not wait that long and had gotten an
appointment with someone else. I was seen that day by my own ortho. She
realiszed he was about to lose me as a patient. They hold time open for
emergencies. The law here states that if you show up at the office they
must treat you. It also says an emergency room may not turn anyone away. The
advice your Dr is giving you is to use the emergency room as the Dr office.
That overcrowds the emergency room unnecessarily.
I can't get a routine appointment to see a pcp in
> less than 3 weeks, unless it's an emergency.
What is a pcp?
Even when I get the
> appointment, the dr's usually running an hour late.
Take a book. Mine usually are on time. I dont know how they do it.
No way to get an
> MRI in a couple of days if you're in an HMO.
HMOs are notorious for denying care. Welcome to socialized medicine. I had
an HMO Dr tell me not to get a ventral hernia repaired because I was old and
not active. Do you know what can happen if you do not get it repaired. I
braced him and he crawfished rather rapidly. I am quite active. I got it
repaired.
Of course, the wealthy
> among us can get one whenever they want, but I suspect they could do
> so in Canada as well.
That is the case anywhere anytime. There are private pay patients in Canada
and they are treated quite well. Dont let anyone kid you about this. Years
ago I had a lady tell me that she saw a Dr in Canada and he had seen 100
patients that day. She was allowed three minutes with him. The grass is
always greener on the other side of the hill. Some European countries tell
Drs to save money by not prescribing medicine. India actually outsources
medical care to some European countries. Fly to India and get the operation
you need and fly back. No long wait and no immense medical bill. The care is
first class to.
>> I
>>
>> > know that when people get sent into hospital in real emergency
>> > situation they can get anything done immediately because the hospitals
>> > prioritize the use of medical resources so that non-emergency users
>> > won't horde all the medical equipment.
>>
>> It is not based on urgency fool it is based on availability.
>
> ----According to several accounts I've read, the care *is* triaged.
Only when the room is woefully overloaded. ER Drs rule out the worst you may
have first that allows them to devote the proper care to the patients in the
most need.
>
> If you dont
>> have enough to go around you dont get it - get it.
>
> ----Unless you got the bucks. Then you'll get it even if you don't
> need it.
That is always the case. In any socialist and communist country. Where did
Castro's surgeons come from. Now you really don't think Michael Moore is
going to run to Cuba for medical care do you? A country people are
continually trying to swim and float out of.
Herbert Cannon
>>
> Oh, bullshit, you asshole fag. Here's the actual story, out of the mouths
> of people who aren't whore's like you.
Considering his last two films were bullshit, anyone with half a brain ought
to be able to figure out Moore is a bullshit artist. Whoops that leaves out
Hal.
Hell "Fahrenheit" got panned even by liberal journalists as untruthful.
Herbert Cannon
turned into a social experiment here. They have become an undisciplined
rowdy joke. Now anyone that wants a decent education for their kids has to
send them to private schools. That takes money.
Herbert Cannon
"> Yeah, I'll take Canada's healthcare over the US, thanks.
>
taxes?
pboud
(if you go over that, some ask you to book again so they can bill it)..
And doctors aren't leaving rural areas for better paying jobs elsewhere..
and...
(that said, I'll *still* take Cdn over US.. just simpler, I think.. :) )
P.
nemo_outis
@edtnps90:
> (that said, I'll *still* take Cdn over US.. just simpler, I think.. :) )
> P.
Canada's per capita GDP is roughly 3/4 that of the US. And Canada spends
roughly 9% of GDP on health care versus 15% for the US. That works out to
less than half the amount spent per person in Canada.
Yet by virtually every objective public health measure (life expectancy,
infant mortality, etc.) Canada *hammers* the US.
Unlike the US there aren't 45 million without health care. In Canada
everyone is covered.
Regards,
h...@nospam.org
<jba...@altzman.com> wrote:
>on 2007-07-04 08:54 h...@nospam.org said the following:
>> go try waiting in line in the ER in an inner city hospital sometime
>> without insurance. See how great the medical care is.
>
>You know what? I *have* been in that position. Unlike you, I actually
>live *in* a city. I've been uninsured an in an emergency room (St.
>Luke's hospital: July 1989).
1989?
You know what year this is? You don't think thinks have changed
somewhat since then?
Hal
Herbert Cannon
Medicare.
Herbert Cannon
Herbert Cannon
> http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?/id=268354568916649
Now click on view editorials and pick " sick of being doctors."
Herbert Cannon
Yes you are fortunate to have lived under our shield so long and exported
85% of your exports to us. A few more Canadians like you and you would be on
your own. I wonder how assholes like you would make out. Not well I expect.
>
Mark Goldberg
> Yeah, I'll take Canada's healthcare over the US, thanks.
>
> Regards,
>
>
Good... many canadians wouldn't and don't. Even with the problems. But
picking and choosing is of course a curious affair.
Let's pick and choose ( outside of my posted articles which were not
pick and choose ) and see how glorious it is for canadians.
Mark
----------
http://www.freemarketcure.com/brainsurgery.php
A Short Course in Brain Surgery
(2006) Run Time: 5:36
A Short Course in Brain Surgery highlights the plight of an Ontario man
with a cancerous brain tumor who crossed the border to the U.S. to get
the medical care that is rationed in his home country.
Written, Directed, Produced, Edited and Narrated By:
Stuart Browning (about)
About the Video:
A Short Course in Brain Surgery is part of the Free Market Cure Video
Series created by filmmaker Stuart Browning to inform Americans about
the dangers of collectivized medicine and the benefits of free markets
in health care.
The filmmaker has received no funding from the health insurance industry
or the health care industry.
suds mcduff
> > ----Damn, where is this modern miracle of health care? My kid's
> > pediatrician advised me to go the the emergency room
> > whenever a kid sprained an ankle, because the hospital would take x-
> > rays on the spot, whereas if I took him in on a regular office visit,
> > the subsequent referral to an ortho would take about four to six weeks
> > to an appointment.
>
> Really my GP can call and get you an appointment that day or the next. Are
> you in an HMO?
----Yes.
> Many of the specialist are in a large practice and have X ray machines in
> their offices with a tech that they employ.
----But, first you have to get a referral from the pcp to get a
specialist appt. At least a four week wait.
> Second, if you are really ill call and ask for the Drs nurse. They will call
> you back.
----If you're really ill, they tell you to go to the emerg room.
Malpractice issues.
> Third, get to know the Dr personally.
-----The doctor sees dozens of patients a day, some for no longer than
15 min to prescribe anti-biotics. No time to "get to know him".
I have one specialist that returns my
> calls. Now that is Nirvana. I dont abuse the privilege. Giveyour Dr a Xmas
> present. Does not have to be expensive. They are human and like to be
> thanked. I brought a cake to my dentist's office for him and his staff to
> thank him for seeing me on an emergency basis. I was in like Flyn after
> that.
> Fourth, when you pick your GP ask him if I am sick will you work me in that
> day. He will usually say yes.
----They all receive "emergencies" it's usually a long wait though.
Last time I was there I heard two women talking. One had been there
two hours waiting to get squeezed in.
If no then find another that will.
> Fifth, get past the front desk. It is usually manned by policy following
> morons hence ask for the Dr's nurse.
> Call around and you can get an appointment easy. I got down once by my
> ortho. I simply called another office and got an appt two days later. When
> the nurse called me back I said I could not wait that long and had gotten an
> appointment with someone else. I was seen that day by my own ortho. She
> realiszed he was about to lose me as a patient. They hold time open for
> emergencies. The law here states that if you show up at the office they
> must treat you. It also says an emergency room may not turn anyone away. The
> advice your Dr is giving you is to use the emergency room as the Dr office.
> That overcrowds the emergency room unnecessarily.
-----The point was he could see a specialist that day, not wait 4-6
weeks to get an x-ray by going through the pcp. The co-pay for emer
room is $100.
>
> I can't get a routine appointment to see a pcp in
>
> > less than 3 weeks, unless it's an emergency.
>
> What is a pcp?
----Primary Care Physician
>
> Even when I get the
>
> > appointment, the dr's usually running an hour late.
>
> Take a book. Mine usually are on time. I dont know how they do it.
-----I have never had an appt start on time. Never. Even the 9am ones.
At other times I was ushered into a treatment room and listened
through the thin walls as a salesman harangued the dr on *my* time.
And, they're *all* like that, unless you're wealthy enough to pay a
large fee.
>
> No way to get an
>
> > MRI in a couple of days if you're in an HMO.
>
> HMOs are notorious for denying care. Welcome to socialized medicine.
----You mean corporate health care. HMO's have to show a profit like
any other corporation, and they do it by denying procedures and
treatments they consider frivolous.
I had
> an HMO Dr tell me not to get a ventral hernia repaired because I was old and
> not active. Do you know what can happen if you do not get it repaired. I
> braced him and he crawfished rather rapidly. I am quite active. I got it
> repaired.
>
> Of course, the wealthy
>
> > among us can get one whenever they want, but I suspect they could do
> > so in Canada as well.
>
> That is the case anywhere anytime. There are private pay patients in Canada
> and they are treated quite well. Dont let anyone kid you about this. Years
> ago I had a lady tell me that she saw a Dr in Canada and he had seen 100
> patients that day. She was allowed three minutes with him. The grass is
> always greener on the other side of the hill. Some European countries tell
> Drs to save money by not prescribing medicine. India actually outsources
> medical care to some European countries. Fly to India and get the operation
> you need and fly back. No long wait and no immense medical bill. The care is
> first class to.
----The hospitals are pretty seedy, from what I've read.
>
> >> I
>
> >> > know that when people get sent into hospital in real emergency
> >> > situation they can get anything done immediately because the hospitals
> >> > prioritize the use of medical resources so that non-emergency users
> >> > won't horde all the medical equipment.
>
> >> It is not based on urgency fool it is based on availability.
>
> > ----According to several accounts I've read, the care *is* triaged.
>
> Only when the room is woefully overloaded. ER Drs rule out the worst you may
> have first that allows them to devote the proper care to the patients in the
> most need.
----I thought that's what "triaged" meant.
>
>
>
> > If you dont
> >> have enough to go around you dont get it - get it.
>
> > ----Unless you got the bucks. Then you'll get it even if you don't
> > need it.
>
> That is always the case. In any socialist and communist country. Where did
> Castro's surgeons come from. Now you really don't think Michael Moore is
> going to run to Cuba for medical care do you? A country people are
> continually trying to swim and float out of.
----The US embargo might have a little to do with that.
Herbert Cannon
He claims this wealth because he worked hard in private industry and earned
the wealth with his skill. He now has a fine house and a very comfortable
life. This is called incentive. Even though affluent he pays nothing for
his medical care.
Canada has a fine health care system because the government pays the salary
of all medical personnel in a socialized system. No matter what the skill or
how hard they work they cannot become wealthy or even affluent. This is
called incentive to become a Doctor so you can remain middling and never
become affluent even though you may greatly exceed Nematode's skill. Who
wants to be a Doctor?
I would go across the border in a nano second.
I seem to remember a young Canadian man that used to post here and was
asking his fellow citizens to contact their MPs. The Canadian government was
going to shut off treatment to his wife, who had cancer. She was a very
brave lady who later passed away. Wherever he is I hope he has put his life
back together; and lives happily as she would want him to do.
Herbert Cannon
>>
>> Really my GP can call and get you an appointment that day or the next.
>> Are
>> you in an HMO?
>
> ----Yes.
Say no more.
>
>> Many of the specialist are in a large practice and have X ray machines in
>> their offices with a tech that they employ.
>
> ----But, first you have to get a referral from the pcp to get a
> specialist appt. At least a four week wait.
I dont I get to pick my own Drs.
>
>> Second, if you are really ill call and ask for the Drs nurse. They will
>> call
>> you back.
>
> ----If you're really ill, they tell you to go to the emerg room.
> Malpractice issues.
Never did that to me.
>
>> Third, get to know the Dr personally.
>
> -----The doctor sees dozens of patients a day, some for no longer than
> 15 min to prescribe anti-biotics. No time to "get to know him".
Use your imagination. They are human.
>
>
> I have one specialist that returns my
>> calls. Now that is Nirvana. I dont abuse the privilege. Giveyour Dr a
>> Xmas
>> present. Does not have to be expensive. They are human and like to be
>> thanked. I brought a cake to my dentist's office for him and his staff to
>> thank him for seeing me on an emergency basis. I was in like Flyn after
>> that.
>> Fourth, when you pick your GP ask him if I am sick will you work me in
>> that
>> day. He will usually say yes.
>
>
> ----They all receive "emergencies" it's usually a long wait though.
> Last time I was there I heard two women talking. One had been there
> two hours waiting to get squeezed in.
That is the nature of the business.
>
>
> If no then find another that will.
>
>> Fifth, get past the front desk. It is usually manned by policy following
>> morons hence ask for the Dr's nurse.
>> Call around and you can get an appointment easy. I got down once by my
>> ortho. I simply called another office and got an appt two days later.
>> When
>> the nurse called me back I said I could not wait that long and had gotten
>> an
>> appointment with someone else. I was seen that day by my own ortho. She
>> realiszed he was about to lose me as a patient. They hold time open for
>> emergencies. The law here states that if you show up at the office they
>> must treat you. It also says an emergency room may not turn anyone away.
>> The
>> advice your Dr is giving you is to use the emergency room as the Dr
>> office.
>> That overcrowds the emergency room unnecessarily.
>
> -----The point was he could see a specialist that day, not wait 4-6
> weeks to get an x-ray by going through the pcp. The co-pay for emer
> room is $100.
>
Still a bad system.
>> I can't get a routine appointment to see a pcp in
>>
>> > less than 3 weeks, unless it's an emergency.
>>
>> What is a pcp?
>
> ----Primary Care Physician
>
>>
>> Even when I get the
>>
>> > appointment, the dr's usually running an hour late.
>>
>> Take a book. Mine usually are on time. I dont know how they do it.
>
> -----I have never had an appt start on time. Never. Even the 9am ones.
> At other times I was ushered into a treatment room and listened
> through the thin walls as a salesman harangued the dr on *my* time.
> And, they're *all* like that, unless you're wealthy enough to pay a
> large fee.
>
Never had that happen either.
>> No way to get an
>>
>> > MRI in a couple of days if you're in an HMO.
>>
>> HMOs are notorious for denying care. Welcome to socialized medicine.
>
>
> ----You mean corporate health care. HMO's have to show a profit like
> any other corporation, and they do it by denying procedures and
> treatments they consider frivolous.
So do governments. They run on budgets. Read about Canadas. It is not all
roses. Like I said welcome to socialized health care.
>
> I had
>> an HMO Dr tell me not to get a ventral hernia repaired because I was old
>> and
>> not active. Do you know what can happen if you do not get it repaired. I
>> braced him and he crawfished rather rapidly. I am quite active. I got it
>> repaired.
>>
>> Of course, the wealthy
>>
>> > among us can get one whenever they want, but I suspect they could do
>> > so in Canada as well.
>>
>> That is the case anywhere anytime. There are private pay patients in
>> Canada
>> and they are treated quite well. Dont let anyone kid you about this.
>> Years
>> ago I had a lady tell me that she saw a Dr in Canada and he had seen 100
>> patients that day. She was allowed three minutes with him. The grass is
>> always greener on the other side of the hill. Some European countries
>> tell
>> Drs to save money by not prescribing medicine. India actually outsources
>> medical care to some European countries. Fly to India and get the
>> operation
>> you need and fly back. No long wait and no immense medical bill. The care
>> is
>> first class to.
>
> ----The hospitals are pretty seedy, from what I've read.
Not the ones outsourcing the surgery.
>
>
>>
>> >> I
>>
>> >> > know that when people get sent into hospital in real emergency
>> >> > situation they can get anything done immediately because the
>> >> > hospitals
>> >> > prioritize the use of medical resources so that non-emergency users
>> >> > won't horde all the medical equipment.
>>
>> >> It is not based on urgency fool it is based on availability.
>>
>> > ----According to several accounts I've read, the care *is* triaged.
>>
>> Only when the room is woefully overloaded. ER Drs rule out the worst you
>> may
>> have first that allows them to devote the proper care to the patients in
>> the
>> most need.
>
> ----I thought that's what "triaged" meant.
No triage means if you are in dire straits you wait.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> > If you dont
>> >> have enough to go around you dont get it - get it.
>>
>> > ----Unless you got the bucks. Then you'll get it even if you don't
>> > need it.
>>
>> That is always the case. In any socialist and communist country. Where
>> did
>> Castro's surgeons come from. Now you really don't think Michael Moore is
>> going to run to Cuba for medical care do you? A country people are
>> continually trying to swim and float out of.
>
> ----The US embargo might have a little to do with that.
I reckon the locking up of dissidents has much more to do with it.
>
>
Jerry B. Altzman
> ----If you're really ill, they tell you to go to the emerg room.
> Malpractice issues.
Remember that many GPs offices are not super-well-stocked with all
manners of pharmaceuticals and tools-of-the-trade; the ERs, on the other
hand, are.
Jerry B. Altzman
> On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 10:49:57 -0400, "Jerry B. Altzman"
> <jba...@altzman.com> wrote:
>> You know what? I *have* been in that position. Unlike you, I actually
>> live *in* a city. I've been uninsured an in an emergency room (St.
>> Luke's hospital: July 1989).
> 1989?
I put that in because now, with a wife and family, I do have other
insurance, and to establish my "bona fides".
> You know what year this is? You don't think thinks have changed
> somewhat since then?
Um, lessee, calendar says 2007. On your planet, is it the same?
In fact...I have friends who are ER physicians, I see doctors' practices
all over the place.
And, I've been in the ER too since then (unfortunately).
No, things have not changed in that regard. If you're really sick, they
wait until later to ask about insurance.
WannabeSo...@hotmail.com
"Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> wrote in message news:ToUii.
9580$g6....@newsfe18.lga...
> Let me see if I have this right. Nematode claims to be a very wealthy man.
> He claims this wealth because he worked hard in private industry and earned
> the wealth with his skill. He now has a fine house and a very comfortable
> life. This is called incentive. Even though affluent he pays nothing for
> his medical care.
> Canada has a fine health care system because the government pays the salary
> of all medical personnel in a socialized system. No matter what the skill or
> how hard they work they cannot become wealthy or even affluent. This is
> called incentive to become a Doctor so you can remain middling and never
> become affluent even though you may greatly exceed Nematode's skill. Who
> wants to be a Doctor?
You have misunderstood the Canadian health care system. Each province
runs its own health insurance company. 20 years ago I used to have to
pay about $15 a month for the insurance premium, but later the Federal
and Provincial Governments decided to pick up the cost so it became
free to the citizens.
We deal with the doctors the same way people deal with the doctors
through private insurance companies. We get to find a doctor that we
like to see, and the doctor will file a claim for our visit to the
government-run insurance company. Busy doctors can still make a lot of
money.
The same thing happens when you are hospitalized. The hospital will
file a claim for your treatment to the same government-run insurance
company.
Our health insurance system works almost the same as private insurance
company, except we don't have to pay the insurance premium anymore.
Wannabe
=======
Fraser Johnston
Dougie? I haven't spoke to him in ages. I might have to send him an email.
Fraser
Fraser Johnston
"Fraser Johnston" <fra...@jcis.com.au> wrote in message
news:5f3329F...@mid.individual.net...
Email bounced. Anyone have a current email address for him???
Fraser
mike...@yahoo.com
> <mikejc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:
>
> 1183549075.549011.56...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 4, 12:02 am, WannabeSomeoneCa...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> The United States slipped to number 37 in the world in terms of health
> >> care.
>
> >> Watch Michael Moore's "Sicko" on America's health care:
>
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiEl1EcqnAY&mode=related&search
>
> >> Have money to drop bombs but no money for health care. Nice country.
>
> >> Happy 4th of July.
>
> > Get over yourself bud. We give out free medical in this country to
> > the countries that have govt medical aren't that great off either.
> > *High* taxes and you have to wait forever fer shit. France is #1
> > huh? Guess it depends on your point of view, like who's actually
> > paying for it.
>
> > And nice plug about Michael Moron...but his new flic looks about as
> > informative as Bowling for Columbine.
> > Pass.
>
> > Mike
>
> It is easy to ignore your health care when the whole country is
> inhabited by morons like you who believe everything your ruler tells
> you. Simpletons like youself deserve everything you don't have.
C'mon. You just thought about it when the stupid movie came out.
Fess up Wannabe.
>
> I live in Canada just across your northern border. We have universal
> health care. Our hospitals won't refuse to treat or discharge their
> patients just because they cannot afford the cost.
A coworker of mine is from Canada. He had a relative there who needed
a hip replaced. Took about a year and a half for the goddamn thing to
happen. He got the second hip replaced at the same time b/c he knew
he'd need it down the road anyway.
Sounds like a friggin horserace to me....;>0
>
> We all share the same medical resources, so the hospitals prioritize
> who gets treated sooner by recommendations from your own family
> physician and the medical specialists. The last time I had to wait for
> 2 month for my MRI but I was happy because I knew it was not urgent. I
> know that when people get sent into hospital in real emergency
> situation they can get anything done immediately because the hospitals
> prioritize the use of medical resources so that non-emergency users
> won't horde all the medical equipment.
>
Really cool.
Hey, ya gots any room for 15MM illegal aliens who don't have any
healthcare?
Mike
mike...@yahoo.com
> pboud <pboud_01NOSPA...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:D1Qii.21721$tB5.690
> @edtnps90:
>
> > (that said, I'll *still* take Cdn over US.. just simpler, I think.. :) )
> > P.
>
> Canada's per capita GDP is roughly 3/4 that of the US. And Canada spends
> roughly 9% of GDP on health care versus 15% for the US. That works out to
> less than half the amount spent per person in Canada.
>
> Yet by virtually every objective public health measure (life expectancy,
> infant mortality, etc.) Canada *hammers* the US.
One word:
Demographics.
>
> Unlike the US there aren't 45 million without health care. In Canada
> everyone is covered.
>
Well, considering at least 15MM of those 45 MM are illegal aliens, and
we're taking care of them anyway, we can't be all that bad now can we
Nemoturd?
Mike
WannabeSo...@hotmail.com
<mike...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:
1183604831.7...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Really cool.
> Hey, ya gots any room for 15MM illegal aliens who don't have any
> healthcare?
>
> Mike
>
>
We have a lot of Canadian folks who retire and go to live in sunny
Miami year round. Technically they have become non-residents of
Canada and should not be eligible for our medical coverage, but these
people never tell the government that they have moved down south, and
whenever they get really sick they would fly back to Canada to get
free medical treatment. We nickname these people "Snowbirds".
Our system is already burdened by these "Snowbirds" and I don't think
we can take care of your 15 million illegals.
Wannabe
=======
mike...@yahoo.com
> <mikejc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:
>
suds mcduff
> >> Really my GP can call and get you an appointment that day or the next.
> >> Are
> >> you in an HMO?
>
> > ----Yes.
>
> Say no more.
>
>
>
> >> Many of the specialist are in a large practice and have X ray machines in
> >> their offices with a tech that they employ.
>
> > ----But, first you have to get a referral from the pcp to get a
> > specialist appt. At least a four week wait.
>
> I dont I get to pick my own Drs.
>
>
>
> >> Second, if you are really ill call and ask for the Drs nurse. They will
> >> call
> >> you back.
>
> > ----If you're really ill, they tell you to go to the emerg room.
> > Malpractice issues.
>
> Never did that to me.
----And, if they treat you over the phone and a serious problem
develops, they're open to a malpractice suit.
>
>
>
> >> Third, get to know the Dr personally.
>
> > -----The doctor sees dozens of patients a day, some for no longer than
> > 15 min to prescribe anti-biotics. No time to "get to know him".
>
> Use your imagination. They are human.
-----And, how will you differentiate yourself from his hundreds of
patients. I'm sure he has his own dr golf buddies and such.
-----But, that's the only way it works. How long does it take a bad
sprain to heal? 6-8 weeks? About the time you'll get your first appt
with the ortho.
>
>
>
> >> I can't get a routine appointment to see a pcp in
>
> >> > less than 3 weeks, unless it's an emergency.
>
> >> What is a pcp?
>
> > ----Primary Care Physician
>
> >> Even when I get the
>
> >> > appointment, the dr's usually running an hour late.
>
> >> Take a book. Mine usually are on time. I dont know how they do it.
>
> > -----I have never had an appt start on time. Never. Even the 9am ones.
> > At other times I was ushered into a treatment room and listened
> > through the thin walls as a salesman harangued the dr on *my* time.
> > And, they're *all* like that, unless you're wealthy enough to pay a
> > large fee.
>
> Never had that happen either.
----Not a city guy, are ya?
>
> >> No way to get an
>
> >> > MRI in a couple of days if you're in an HMO.
>
> >> HMOs are notorious for denying care. Welcome to socialized medicine.
>
> > ----You mean corporate health care. HMO's have to show a profit like
> > any other corporation, and they do it by denying procedures and
> > treatments they consider frivolous.
>
> So do governments. They run on budgets. Read about Canadas. It is not all
> roses. Like I said welcome to socialized health care.
------HMO's are for profit corporations, the exact opposite of
socialized medicine.
-----Yes, those, from the articles I've read about folks that went to
India for cheaper procedures.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> >> I
>
> >> >> > know that when people get sent into hospital in real emergency
> >> >> > situation they can get anything done immediately because the
> >> >> > hospitals
> >> >> > prioritize the use of medical resources so that non-emergency users
> >> >> > won't horde all the medical equipment.
>
> >> >> It is not based on urgency fool it is based on availability.
>
> >> > ----According to several accounts I've read, the care *is* triaged.
>
> >> Only when the room is woefully overloaded. ER Drs rule out the worst you
> >> may
> >> have first that allows them to devote the proper care to the patients in
> >> the
> >> most need.
>
> > ----I thought that's what "triaged" meant.
>
> No triage means if you are in dire straits you wait.
------Simple triage is the more serious injuries are handled first,
which is what I meant.
In advanced triage,doctors may decide that some seriously injured
people should not receive certain care because they are unlikely to
survive.The available care is then concentrated on those with some
hope of survival.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> > If you dont
> >> >> have enough to go around you dont get it - get it.
>
> >> > ----Unless you got the bucks. Then you'll get it even if you don't
> >> > need it.
>
> >> That is always the case. In any socialist and communist country. Where
> >> did
> >> Castro's surgeons come from. Now you really don't think Michael Moore is
> >> going to run to Cuba for medical care do you? A country people are
> >> continually trying to swim and float out of.
>
> > ----The US embargo might have a little to do with that.
>
> I reckon the locking up of dissidents has much more to do with it.
-----Nope. The recent and current crop of refugees from Cuba are
economically induced. They want a house with a pool and a boat like
many of their former countrymen, if Castro could offer that, they'ed
be happy to stay.
suds mcduff
> on 2007-07-04 17:21 suds mcduff said the following:
>
> > ----If you're really ill, they tell you to go to the emerg room.
> > Malpractice issues.
>
> Remember that many GPs offices are not super-well-stocked with all
> manners of pharmaceuticals and tools-of-the-trade; the ERs, on the other
> hand, are.
-----Nah, I think it's because they don't want to be sued. Whenever we
called the pediatrician when my boys were growing up, she *always*
told us to head to the emergency room. My wife's various ailments were
met with the same advice. Seems there's no more "take two aspirin and
call me in the morning." When my son sustained a serious ankle sprain
one Xmas eve, I treated it with the RICE method, and got an emergency
appt with the pediatrician two days later. That's when I was informed
the best thing to do was to go to the emergency room and we'd get
xrays that day, albeit, after a four to six hour wait and a $100 co-
payment, instead of waiting weeks to see an ortho.
Jerry B. Altzman
> On Jul 4, 10:18 pm, "Jerry B. Altzman" <jba...@altzman.com> wrote:
>> on 2007-07-04 17:21 suds mcduff said the following:
>> manners of pharmaceuticals and tools-of-the-trade; the ERs, on the other
>> hand, are.
> -----Nah, I think it's because they don't want to be sued. Whenever we
That weighs in on it, but for doctors NOT on an HMO, getting to do yet
another billable item...
Malpractice insurance also may not cover them.
And, lastly, it's EXPENSIVE having to stock an office to cover all
manner of things that don't come up but once in a blue moon in a private
office, but an ER might see multiple times a month.
Obviously, rural and urban areas are going to differ but...
> called the pediatrician when my boys were growing up, she *always*
> told us to head to the emergency room. My wife's various ailments were
> met with the same advice. Seems there's no more "take two aspirin and
> call me in the morning." When my son sustained a serious ankle sprain
More like: the office is closed now, and if it's really urgent, there's
an ER you can go to, or you can come in in the morning.
suds mcduff
-----Both my boys attended public school. My oldest secured an
academic scholarship to university,and holds a B average as a
requirement.Many public school kids acquire scholarships to major
private universities as well. My youngest son is taking advanced
placement physics and a.p.calculus his upcoming senior year, along
with honors english and history. You can get a good education in
public school, you just have to reach out for it, and, it's not that
much of a stretch.
"You can lead a horse to water........"
Chas
>.....You can get a good education in
> public school, you just have to reach out for it, and, it's not that
> much of a stretch.
Both of my boys were on track to go to the worst elementary school in the
state of Colorado; Crawford Elementary in Aurora.
You can't get a good education there even if you speak fluent
Ebonics/Spanish/Nahuatl/Costa Rican/Portuguese, so I homeschooled them.
Both boys scored between 5-8 years above age-norm on every test.
--
Chas
http://www.jacksandsaps.com/
Herbert Cannon
. You can get a good education in
> public school, you just have to reach out for it, and, it's not that
> much of a stretch.
> "You can lead a horse to water........"
Not here you can. Everyone I know is spending a fortune putting their kids
in a private school. The public school is in the toilet. They are still
bussing kids around with the system 98% minoirty. It is a joke. The
superintendent is a moron.
Even plenty smart black folks do it here.
Herbert Cannon
> -----And, how will you differentiate yourself from his hundreds of
> patients. I'm sure he has his own dr golf buddies and such.
>
And hobbies he is still human you know.
>
> ----Not a city guy, are ya?
>
Yes I am and I know people that go to a small hospital in a small town
outside of the city. They swear the care is better there.They have relatives
there. Mys wifes cousin is a GP in a small town. He just got sued and lost
$800,000. Should have settled but he would not. So the problems exist
everywhere.
>> >> HMOs are notorious for denying care. Welcome to socialized medicine.
>>
>> > ----You mean corporate health care. HMO's have to show a profit like
>> > any other corporation, and they do it by denying procedures and
>> > treatments they consider frivolous.
>>
>> So do governments. They run on budgets. Read about Canadas. It is not all
>> roses. Like I said welcome to socialized health care.
>
>
> ------HMO's are for profit corporations, the exact opposite of
> socialized medicine.
>
It is the exact same penny pinching. One is done by executives the other by
bureaucrats.
>> Not the ones outsourcing the surgery.
>
> -----Yes, those, from the articles I've read about folks that went to
> India for cheaper procedures.
>
You dont fly to India for cheaper procedures - you fly to avoid long waits
for surgery. If you have the money to fly to India you dont need cheaper
procedures.
>>
>> > ----I thought that's what "triaged" meant.
>>
>> No triage means if you are in dire straits you wait.
>
> ------Simple triage is the more serious injuries are handled first,
> which is what I meant.
> In advanced triage,doctors may decide that some seriously injured
> people should not receive certain care because they are unlikely to
> survive.The available care is then concentrated on those with some
> hope of survival.
No argument from me on that>>
>> > ----The US embargo might have a little to do with that.
>>
>> I reckon the locking up of dissidents has much more to do with it.
>
> -----Nope. The recent and current crop of refugees from Cuba are
> economically induced. They want a house with a pool and a boat like
> many of their former countrymen, if Castro could offer that, they'ed
> be happy to stay.
So who does not? They have been floating out of that country for years. A
friend of mine's family fled years ago. Cant speak for the " current crop."
Herbert Cannon
Herbert Cannon
Google it up you have some problems in your health care system.
WannabeSo...@hotmail.com
"Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> wrote in message news:XE7ji.
13089$aJ1....@newsfe17.lga...
> 10,000 of your Doctors left for the US. This has slowed in recent years.
> Google it up you have some problems in your health care system.
>
>
The government-run insurance company is regulated by the government,
of course. They put a cap on the maximum amount of dollars on how much
a doctor's office can bill the systems each year.
Your system is purely for profit, so some of our doctors are lured by
money and warmer winters.
Our government-subsidized universities can crank out enough new
doctors to replace those who left. Supply and demand are pretty well
in equilibrium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_canada
Canada's health care system is a publicly funded health care system,
with most services provided by private entities. It is important to
understand that it is not a true public system, even though the
government and others have called it so. In Canada the various levels
of government pay for about 70% of Canadians' health care costs, which
is about average for a developed country. Canada is unusual in that
the government pays for almost 100% of hospital and physician care,
but contributes very little in areas such as prescription drug costs,
dental care and Emergency Medical Services in Canada.
Wannabe
=======
trav...@aol.com
> <mikejc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 4, 12:02 am, WannabeSomeoneCa...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> The United States slipped to number 37 in the world in terms of health
> >> care.
>
> >> Watch Michael Moore's "Sicko" on America's health care:
>
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiEl1EcqnAY&mode=related&search
>
> >> Have money to drop bombs but no money for health care. Nice country.
>
> >> Happy 4th of July.
>
> > Get over yourself bud. We give out free medical in this country to
> > illegals until we can't give any more, just cuz we're that nice. And
> > the countries that have govt medical aren't that great off either.
> > *High* taxes and you have to wait forever fer shit. France is #1
> > huh? Guess it depends on your point of view, like who's actually
> > paying for it.
>
> > And nice plug about Michael Moron...but his new flic looks about as
> > informative as Bowling for Columbine.
> > Pass.
>
> > Mike
>
> It is easy to ignore your health care when the whole country is
> inhabited by morons like you who believe everything your ruler tells
> you. Simpletons like youself deserve everything you don't have.
>
> health care. Our hospitals won't refuse to treat or discharge their
> patients just because they cannot afford the cost.
>
> who gets treated sooner by recommendations from your own family
> physician and the medical specialists. The last time I had to wait for
> know that when people get sent into hospital in real emergency
> situation they can get anything done immediately because the hospitals
> prioritize the use of medical resources so that non-emergency users
> won't horde all the medical equipment.
>
> =======- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dude we outspend everyone in the fkin world in health care.
WTF kinda crack are you smoking?
Trav
trav...@aol.com
> pboud <pboud_01NOSPA...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:D1Qii.21721$tB5.690
> @edtnps90:
>
> > (that said, I'll *still* take Cdn over US.. just simpler, I think.. :) )
> > P.
>
> Canada's per capita GDP is roughly 3/4 that of the US. And Canada spends
> roughly 9% of GDP on health care versus 15% for the US. That works out to
> less than half the amount spent per person in Canada.
>
> Yet by virtually every objective public health measure (life expectancy,
> infant mortality, etc.) Canada *hammers* the US.
>
> everyone is covered.
>
Dude...you have hardly any blacks or hispanics.
We spend an assload on fat people and violent assaults.
Trav
l k
> pboud <pboud_01NOSPA...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:D1Qii.21721$tB5.690
> @edtnps90:
>
> > (that said, I'll *still* take Cdn over US.. just simpler, I think.. :) )
> > P.
>
> Canada's per capita GDP is roughly 3/4 that of the US. And Canada spends
> roughly 9% of GDP on health care versus 15% for the US. That works out to
> less than half the amount spent per person in Canada.
>
> Yet by virtually every objective public health measure (life expectancy,
> infant mortality, etc.) Canada *hammers* the US.
>
>
Yes, because you free-ride off our huge expenditures on cutting edge
medicine. I think the words you seek are "Thank you, America."
pboud
days of 'relevant history' you seem to use.. That way you'll *always* be
able to make such insightful and thought-provoking statements.
The two countries co-exist.. the interdependencies are far-reaching..
To point _this_ out or justify _that_ or grandstand about _the other
thing_ is pretty much as narrow minded as you can get..
From either side, really..
P.
l k
> l k wrote:
> > On Jul 4, 12:51 pm, "nemo_outis" <a...@xyz.com> wrote:
> >> pboud <pboud_01NOSPA...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:D1Qii.21721$tB5.690
> >> @edtnps90:
>
> >>> (that said, I'll *still* take Cdn over US.. just simpler, I think.. :) )
> >>> P.
> >> Canada's per capita GDP is roughly 3/4 that of the US. And Canada spends
> >> roughly 9% of GDP on health care versus 15% for the US. That works out to
> >> less than half the amount spent per person in Canada.
>
> >> Yet by virtually every objective public health measure (life expectancy,
> >> infant mortality, etc.) Canada *hammers* the US.
>
> > Yes, because you free-ride off our huge expenditures on cutting edge
> > medicine. I think the words you seek are "Thank you, America."
>
> Please take steps to make sure you *never* step outside your 10 or so
> days of 'relevant history' you seem to use.. That way you'll *always* be
> able to make such insightful and thought-provoking statements.
>
My comment was really replying to someone else. But, do feel free to
point any larger or more productive medical investments/contributions.
Specifically, which other country has ever subsidized "world medicine"
to a greater extent than the US now? Use any reasonable metric you
like, relevant to helping people outside one's own borders.
BTW, I sit right now and 5 days a week a few miles down Wisconsin AVE
from NIH and coincedentally my GF works full-time at a hotel near
there. Just whom do you think stays at that hotel and fills the
convention rooms? It's a non-stop and daily flood of well-paid doctors
and medical researchers whose time and compensation cosst a fortune
and who collectively produce and will produce a great portion of
current and future medicine. Guess who pays for all that medical
investment? And say thanks.
> The two countries co-exist.. the interdependencies are far-reaching..
> To point _this_ out or justify _that_ or grandstand about _the other
> thing_ is pretty much as narrow minded as you can get..
I am sure I can get much more narrow-minded, thanks.
>
> From either side, really..
>
> P.- Hide quoted text -
trav...@aol.com
> My comment was really replying to someone else. But, do feel free to
> point any larger or more productive medical investments/contributions.
> Specifically, which other country has ever subsidized "world medicine"
> to a greater extent than the US now? Use any reasonable metric you
> like, relevant to helping people outside one's own borders.
Israel, maybe?
But, seriously, do we not overspend on medicine? The sword cuts both
ways. If we are actually subsidizing medicine here, there are
probably ways in which this could be achieved more efficaciously and
cheaply. That Canada freeloads off of us is indisputable.
> BTW, I sit right now and 5 days a week a few miles down Wisconsin AVE
> from NIH and coincedentally my GF works full-time at a hotel near
> there. Just whom do you think stays at that hotel and fills the
> convention rooms?
High priced hookers? This is DC, right?
Trav
nemo_outis
news:1183659597.8...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
> That Canada freeloads off of us is indisputable.
I dispute it. Care to back up what you say or are we to take this latest
load of your bullshit on faith?
Regards,
pboud
etc. is not in question..
That new technological breakthroughs are published in medical journals
is *also* not in question..
I can only assume this is what Trav is referring to..
P.
l k
> nemo_outis wrote:
> > "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com> wrote in
So for all your condescension, you're agreeing, right?
trav...@aol.com
Most that bitch-ass nation lives within a stone's throw of the
border...how much more obvious could it get?
Nevermind the trickle down from research and investment done here. As
soon as Canada pioneers not just some, but ALL advanced therapies,
then I will listen to how Canada's health care system is better. Were
any of the drugs they use invented by Canadian scientists? Good lord,
fuck Canada, seriously.
The problem in the United States is an overexpenditure on health care,
unrelated to research and development. But, for a small nation with a
homogeneous population to point fingers at the United States is
laughable.
Trav
pboud
far as agreeing, agreeing to what? Please name any single country that
will *NOT* take advantage of medical advances when possible, regardless
of who pioneers it? That includes The US, btw..
Some of the people on the NG seem to have a hard-on as to whether the US
is king, pawn, or bully.. and they'll go to absurd lengths to prove
their respective positions..
To me, the US is a neighbour.. that's as far as it goes.. Now; if you
wish to get into specific medical advances and gant-chart-like
progressions, and 3D advance representations, fill your boots.. it's not
my thing.
Every once in a while, however, I find the nause from one or the other
side a bit much and mention it. Now..this is not to pic on Trav since
his last post is frankly tame compared to his usual stuff.
I find the whole "give thanks to thy better on thy knee, knave..."
position to be a fair bit ludicrous given the symbiotic relationship
between the countries.. I also hold most "At least we're not as (fill in
the insult) as the States.. We have *(morals, standards, whatever)* up
here" opinions to be in the same vein..
P.
trav...@aol.com
> is king, pawn, or bully.. and they'll go to absurd lengths to prove
> their respective positions..
Yes, well most have penis envy of the United States.
> Every once in a while, however, I find the nause from one or the other
> side a bit much and mention it. Now..this is not to pic on Trav since
> his last post is frankly tame compared to his usual stuff.
Oh...sorry. I'll try to dial it up a couple notches.
> I find the whole "give thanks to thy better on thy knee, knave..."
> position to be a fair bit ludicrous given the symbiotic relationship
> between the countries..
>
I disagree, so BOW DOWN BEFORE ME, BITCH
Trav
pboud
> On Jul 5, 3:06 pm, pboud <pboud_01NOSPA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> nemo_outis wrote:
>>> "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com> wrote in
>>> news:1183659597.8...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>>>> That Canada freeloads off of us is indisputable.
>>> I dispute it. Care to back up what you say or are we to take this latest
>>> load of your bullshit on faith?
>>> Regards,
>> That the US has more funds for research into new techniques, new tools,
>> etc. is not in question..
>>
>> That new technological breakthroughs are published in medical journals
>> is *also* not in question..
>>
>> I can only assume this is what Trav is referring to..
>>
>> P.
>
> Most that bitch-ass nation lives within a stone's throw of the
> border...how much more obvious could it get?
bit, but the beer froze..
>
> Nevermind the trickle down from research and investment done here. As
> soon as Canada pioneers not just some, but ALL advanced therapies,
> then I will listen to how Canada's health care system is better. Were
> any of the drugs they use invented by Canadian scientists? Good lord,
> fuck Canada, seriously.
>
> The problem in the United States is an overexpenditure on health care,
> unrelated to research and development.
The problem with US healthcare stems more with issues in service
dissemination and provider allocations.. and it's not limited to the US;
we have it up here, it's there in Europe, etc. The reason it's a little
more front-page in the US is the sheer amount of cash they've got to
throw at the system..
Then again, you could pick just about *any* industry and say the same
thing; since election campaigns are gearing up, however, it's hitting
the limelight a little more right now..
But, for a small nation with a
> homogeneous population to point fingers at the United States is
> laughable.
>
Actually, you're reacting to a single man's opinion.. Unless you're
taking the position that we represent our countries when we post here?
P.
> Trav
>
pboud
gym or something?
P.
trav...@aol.com
> taking the position that we represent our countries when we post here?
>
> P.
Yes, and I propose ritual combat to decide the issue...
We can each arm ourselves with the most sophisticated weapons invented
in our respective countries.
Trav
l k
> >> P.
>
> > So for all your condescension, you're agreeing, right?
>
> I try to leave condescension out of my writing as much as possible.. As
> far as agreeing, agreeing to what? Please name any single country that
> will *NOT* take advantage of medical advances when possible, regardless
> of who pioneers it?
As if "who pioneers" is some accident. We subsidize at great expense,
y'all freeload. Say "thanks" instead of bitching. Being an ingrate
is bad for the soul. In fact, I am driving from work to BJJ tonight at
6:15, right up Wisconsin Ave., and as I pass it on my left, I'll get
out and bow to the NIH, on your behalf.
> To me, the US is a neighbour.. that's as far as it goes.. Now; if you
> wish to get into specific medical advances and gant-chart-like
> progressions, and 3D advance representations, fill your boots.. it's not
> my thing.
First you were accusing me of having no historical context, not
posting "insightful and thought-provoking statements" and being narrow-
minded. Now it's just a matter of "it's not your thing." I think more
accurately, it's not your thing to pursue a losing line of argument.
> Some of the people on the NG seem to have a hard-on as to whether the US
> is king, pawn, or bully.. and they'll go to absurd lengths to prove
> their respective positions..
>
> Every once in a while, however, I find the nause from one or the other
> side a bit much and mention it. Now..this is not to pic on Trav since
> his last post is frankly tame compared to his usual stuff.
>
> I find the whole "give thanks to thy better on thy knee, knave..."
> position to be a fair bit ludicrous given the symbiotic relationship
> between the countries.. I also hold most "At least we're not as (fill in
> the insult) as the States.. We have *(morals, standards, whatever)* up
> here" opinions to be in the same vein..
>
Symbiotic for us to spend proportionately more on exportable meical
advances? Huh? As a US citizen I don't see the material benefit.
pboud
P.
pboud
>>>> P.
>>> So for all your condescension, you're agreeing, right?
>> I try to leave condescension out of my writing as much as possible.. As
>> far as agreeing, agreeing to what? Please name any single country that
>> will *NOT* take advantage of medical advances when possible, regardless
>> of who pioneers it?
>
> As if "who pioneers" is some accident. We subsidize at great expense,
> y'all freeload. Say "thanks" instead of bitching. Being an ingrate
> is bad for the soul. In fact, I am driving from work to BJJ tonight at
> 6:15, right up Wisconsin Ave., and as I pass it on my left, I'll get
> out and bow to the NIH, on your behalf.
>
>> To me, the US is a neighbour.. that's as far as it goes.. Now; if you
>> wish to get into specific medical advances and gant-chart-like
>> progressions, and 3D advance representations, fill your boots.. it's not
>> my thing.
>
> First you were accusing me of having no historical context, not
> posting "insightful and thought-provoking statements" and being narrow-
> minded. Now it's just a matter of "it's not your thing." I think more
> accurately, it's not your thing to pursue a losing line of argument.
practical patent for me..
>
>> Some of the people on the NG seem to have a hard-on as to whether the US
>> is king, pawn, or bully.. and they'll go to absurd lengths to prove
>> their respective positions..
>>
>> Every once in a while, however, I find the nause from one or the other
>> side a bit much and mention it. Now..this is not to pic on Trav since
>> his last post is frankly tame compared to his usual stuff.
>>
>> I find the whole "give thanks to thy better on thy knee, knave..."
>> position to be a fair bit ludicrous given the symbiotic relationship
>> between the countries.. I also hold most "At least we're not as (fill in
>> the insult) as the States.. We have *(morals, standards, whatever)* up
>> here" opinions to be in the same vein..
>>
>
> Symbiotic for us to spend proportionately more on exportable meical
> advances? Huh? As a US citizen I don't see the material benefit.
When was the last time you tried to get scripts filled?
P.
suds mcduff
> > -----And, how will you differentiate yourself from his hundreds of
> > patients. I'm sure he has his own dr golf buddies and such.
>
> And hobbies he is still human you know.
----Why would he add a patient when he's got his own dr buddies that
have more in common with him than you?
>
> > ----Not a city guy, are ya?
>
> Yes I am and I know people that go to a small hospital in a small town
> outside of the city. They swear the care is better there.They have relatives
> there. Mys wifes cousin is a GP in a small town. He just got sued and lost
> $800,000. Should have settled but he would not. So the problems exist
> everywhere.
>
> >> >> HMOs are notorious for denying care. Welcome to socialized medicine.
>
> >> > ----You mean corporate health care. HMO's have to show a profit like
> >> > any other corporation, and they do it by denying procedures and
> >> > treatments they consider frivolous.
>
> >> So do governments. They run on budgets. Read about Canadas. It is not all
> >> roses. Like I said welcome to socialized health care.
>
> > ------HMO's are for profit corporations, the exact opposite of
> > socialized medicine.
>
> It is the exact same penny pinching. One is done by executives the other by
> bureaucrats.>> Not the ones outsourcing the surgery.
>
> > -----Yes, those, from the articles I've read about folks that went to
> > India for cheaper procedures.
>
> You dont fly to India for cheaper procedures - you fly to avoid long waits
> for surgery. If you have the money to fly to India you dont need cheaper
> procedures.
----The articles I've read, the surgery is cheaper even with round
trip airfare, which is why they went. A carpenter got heart surgery
for much less in the article I read, even allowing for airfare.
> >> > ----I thought that's what "triaged" meant.
>
> >> No triage means if you are in dire straits you wait.
>
> > ------Simple triage is the more serious injuries are handled first,
> > which is what I meant.
> > In advanced triage,doctors may decide that some seriously injured
> > people should not receive certain care because they are unlikely to
> > survive.The available care is then concentrated on those with some
> > hope of survival.
>
> No argument from me on that>>
----So, if you're in dire straights but have a chance at survival, you
go first. That's exactly what I meant.
>
> >> > ----The US embargo might have a little to do with that.
>
> >> I reckon the locking up of dissidents has much more to do with it.
>
> > -----Nope. The recent and current crop of refugees from Cuba are
> > economically induced. They want a house with a pool and a boat like
> > many of their former countrymen, if Castro could offer that, they'ed
> > be happy to stay.
>
> So who does not? They have been floating out of that country for years. A
> friend of mine's family fled years ago. Cant speak for the " current crop."
----The whole basis for the Cuban exodus was supposedly political
(fleeing communism) during the cold war, but now it's economic. Why
aren't they treated like Haitians and returned? Why do we have trade
with the Vietnamese, with whom we had a pretty nasty war with if
you'll remember, and not Cuba?
suds mcduff
> "suds mcduff" <sudsmcduff19...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> >.....You can get a good education in
> > public school, you just have to reach out for it, and, it's not that
> > much of a stretch.
>
> Both of my boys were on track to go to the worst elementary school in the
> state of Colorado; Crawford Elementary in Aurora.
---Don't know it, but probably know some like it.
> You can't get a good education there even if you speak fluent
> Ebonics/Spanish/Nahuatl/Costa Rican/Portuguese,
----All public schools aren't Crawford El.
so I homeschooled them.
> Both boys scored between 5-8 years above age-norm on every test.
-----Well, sure. It starts to get tougher when you need to home school
them in advanced calculus or ap chemistry....
pboud
not?(at least, they weren't covered in *my* high school) What makes you
think HS students don't go to university?
(just curious here..)
P.
suds mcduff
> . You can get a good education in
>
> > public school, you just have to reach out for it, and, it's not that
> > much of a stretch.
>
> Not here you can.
---where is "here"
Everyone I know is spending a fortune putting their kids
> in a private school.
----They don't want race mixing, or they're creation nuts.
The public school is in the toilet. They are still
> bussing kids around with the system 98% minoirty.
-----I don't know what you're saying, but I agree, kids need to go to
a neighborhood school.
It is a joke. The
> superintendent is a moron.
----Really. Why did the school board hire him? Why doesn't the school
board fire him?
What are his qualifications?
> Even plenty smart black folks do it here.
----So, you're solution would be to destroy the public schools, and
let those that can pay get an education, those that can't, tough shit?
l k
> l k wrote:
> >>>> P.
> >>> So for all your condescension, you're agreeing, right?
> >> I try to leave condescension out of my writing as much as possible.. As
> >> far as agreeing, agreeing to what? Please name any single country that
> >> will *NOT* take advantage of medical advances when possible, regardless
> >> of who pioneers it?
>
> > As if "who pioneers" is some accident. We subsidize at great expense,
> > y'all freeload. Say "thanks" instead of bitching. Being an ingrate
> > is bad for the soul. In fact, I am driving from work to BJJ tonight at
> > 6:15, right up Wisconsin Ave., and as I pass it on my left, I'll get
> > out and bow to the NIH, on your behalf.
> um, thks...
You're sincerely, welcome.
>
> >> To me, the US is a neighbour.. that's as far as it goes.. Now; if you
> >> wish to get into specific medical advances and gant-chart-like
> >> progressions, and 3D advance representations, fill your boots.. it's not
> >> my thing.
>
> > First you were accusing me of having no historical context, not
> > posting "insightful and thought-provoking statements" and being narrow-
> > minded. Now it's just a matter of "it's not your thing." I think more
> > accurately, it's not your thing to pursue a losing line of argument.
>
> You *obviously* don't know me.. Loosing line of arguments are a
> practical patent for me..
Lazy. I thought you'd fight back. Maybe it's that shitty health care
you've got up there that's makng you lethargic.
> >> Some of the people on the NG seem to have a hard-on as to whether the US
> >> is king, pawn, or bully.. and they'll go to absurd lengths to prove
> >> their respective positions..
>
> >> Every once in a while, however, I find the nause from one or the other
> >> side a bit much and mention it. Now..this is not to pic on Trav since
> >> his last post is frankly tame compared to his usual stuff.
>
> >> I find the whole "give thanks to thy better on thy knee, knave..."
> >> position to be a fair bit ludicrous given the symbiotic relationship
> >> between the countries.. I also hold most "At least we're not as (fill in
> >> the insult) as the States.. We have *(morals, standards, whatever)* up
> >> here" opinions to be in the same vein..
>
> > Symbiotic for us to spend proportionately more on exportable meical
> > advances? Huh? As a US citizen I don't see the material benefit.
>
> When was the last time you tried to get scripts filled?
How do you say "when I got VD from yer mom" in French?
Neil Gendzwill
>
> Nevermind the trickle down from research and investment done here. As
> soon as Canada pioneers not just some, but ALL advanced therapies,
> then I will listen to how Canada's health care system is better. Were
> any of the drugs they use invented by Canadian scientists? Good lord,
> fuck Canada, seriously.
The most famous one is insulin, but yeah, there's a lot of development
that goes on here. 1/10 of the population, obviously it's not going to
compare for volume but we don't exactly sit on our hands. Lots of good
research going on in our universities, too. Most advanced synchotron in
the world is a stone's throw away from my office.
> The problem in the United States is an overexpenditure on health care,
> unrelated to research and development.
Wait, you couldn't possibly mean that the US's fucked up delivery system
is the real issue?
> But, for a small nation with a
> homogeneous population to point fingers at the United States is
> laughable.
How are we a homgeneous population? My town's about 15% native, I don't
think Pierre can swing a dead cat without hitting some kid from Hong
Kong...
Neil
pboud
I thought you'd fight back. Maybe it's that shitty health care
> you've got up there that's makng you lethargic.
>
Gimme something to work with, man.. I'm not a miracle worker up here.
> How do you say "when I got VD from yer mom" in French?
>
Ta mere m'a donne des MTS..
Or
Le Sida.. Souvenir Indelible D'un Amie
(English keyboard, so pretend you can see the accents..)
pboud
> trav...@aol.cominyrface wrote:
>>
>> Nevermind the trickle down from research and investment done here. As
>> soon as Canada pioneers not just some, but ALL advanced therapies,
>> then I will listen to how Canada's health care system is better. Were
>> any of the drugs they use invented by Canadian scientists? Good lord,
>> fuck Canada, seriously.
>
> The most famous one is insulin, but yeah, there's a lot of development
> that goes on here. 1/10 of the population, obviously it's not going to
> compare for volume but we don't exactly sit on our hands. Lots of good
> research going on in our universities, too. Most advanced synchotron in
> the world is a stone's throw away from my office.
mem serves.. Not really swept up on the research side of things though..
>
>> The problem in the United States is an overexpenditure on health care,
>> unrelated to research and development.
>
> Wait, you couldn't possibly mean that the US's fucked up delivery system
> is the real issue?
>
>> But, for a small nation with a
>> homogeneous population to point fingers at the United States is
>> laughable.
>
> How are we a homgeneous population? My town's about 15% native, I don't
> think Pierre can swing a dead cat without hitting some kid from Hong
> Kong...
>
> Neil
Especially around Pierre's house..
Something about keeping grocery bills down or some such? I never did get
the strait of it.
trav...@aol.com
> The most famous one is insulin, but yeah, there's a lot of development
> that goes on here. 1/10 of the population, obviously it's not going to
> compare for volume but we don't exactly sit on our hands. Lots of good
> research going on in our universities, too. Most advanced synchotron in
> the world is a stone's throw away from my office.
It doesn't compare per capita, either. And, we have secret weapons
like Al Gore to invent the internet.
> Wait, you couldn't possibly mean that the US's fucked up delivery system
> is the real issue?
Um...could be. Ya think?
> How are we a homgeneous population? My town's about 15% native, I don't
> think Pierre can swing a dead cat without hitting some kid from Hong
> Kong...
>
> Neil
My town is 80% black. And 80% hispanic. I mean, these colored mfers
are EVERYWHERE. It appears that they corrolate rather markedly with
ER visits late on weekend nights in the summer.
Plus, we got a lotta old people who just suck down pills. Got a dude
who takes some kinda BP medication. I told him to lose some fkin
weight instead.
Trav
Oh, BTW, while I'm up, take a look at this, mfer:
http://www.answers.com/topic/demographics-of-canada
That look fkin heterogeneous to you? You can go find the US version
l k
>
> > Nevermind the trickle down from research and investment done here. As
> > soon as Canada pioneers not just some, but ALL advanced therapies,
> > then I will listen to how Canada's health care system is better. Were
> > any of the drugs they use invented by Canadian scientists? Good lord,
> > fuck Canada, seriously.
>
> The most famous one is insulin, but yeah, there's a lot of development
> that goes on here. 1/10 of the population, obviously it's not going to
> compare for volume but we don't exactly sit on our hands. Lots of good
> research going on in our universities, too. Most advanced synchotron in
> the world is a stone's throw away from my office.
>
> > The problem in the United States is an overexpenditure on health care,
> > unrelated to research and development.
>
> Wait, you couldn't possibly mean that the US's fucked up delivery system
> is the real issue?
We deliver a lot, but often the horse won't drink water, once led.
Unusual levels of self-destructiveness probably accounts precisely for
our "over"expenditure in resources v. outcomes. At some point you
have to stop blaming "medicine" for people living on bacon-
cheeseburgers and fries when they could afford veggies. I plead
guilty, too: all my medical expenses have come from (avoidable) BJJ
injuries.
Neil Gendzwill
>
> Oh, BTW, while I'm up, take a look at this, mfer:
>
> http://www.answers.com/topic/demographics-of-canada
>
> That look fkin heterogeneous to you? You can go find the US version
They didn't include the natives as a visible minority in those states,
which is truly a WTF thing. If you take them out of the "white" bin,
we're 83.3% white according to that link.
From http://www.answers.com/topic/demographics-of-usa, the US is 74.7%
white. More diversity than Canada, but not exactly a huge difference.
Neil
Neil Gendzwill
>
> We deliver a lot, but often the horse won't drink water, once led.
> Unusual levels of self-destructiveness probably accounts precisely for
> our "over"expenditure in resources v. outcomes. At some point you
> have to stop blaming "medicine" for people living on bacon-
> cheeseburgers and fries when they could afford veggies. I plead
> guilty, too: all my medical expenses have come from (avoidable) BJJ
> injuries.
You think this is a US-exclusive problem?
Neil
l k
> > soon as Canada pioneers not just some, but ALL advanced therapies,
> > then I will listen to how Canada's health care system is better. Were
> > any of the drugs they use invented by Canadian scientists? Good lord,
> > fuck Canada, seriously.
>
> The most famous one is insulin, but yeah, there's a lot of development
> that goes on here. 1/10 of the population, obviously it's not going to
> compare for volume but we don't exactly sit on our hands. Lots of good
> research going on in our universities, too. Most advanced synchotron in
> the world is a stone's throw away from my office.
>
See, that's your problem right there, canadian. You have a fking
synchrotron and you're thinking about throwing stones? go zap
something or irradiate something or bust up some molecules. jeeeeez.
l k
Of course not. It's a matter of rates (and weights).
Neil Gendzwill
> On Jul 5, 5:28 pm, Neil Gendzwill <ngendzw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>You think this is a US-exclusive problem?
>>
>
Based on my highly scientific sample of the tourist population of
Orlando, the US is overwhelmingly white and fat as hell.
Neil
trav...@aol.com
> travis...@aol.cominyrface wrote:
>
> > Oh, BTW, while I'm up, take a look at this, mfer:
>
> >http://www.answers.com/topic/demographics-of-canada
>
> > That look fkin heterogeneous to you? You can go find the US version
>
> They didn't include the natives as a visible minority in those states,
> which is truly a WTF thing. If you take them out of the "white" bin,
> we're 83.3% white according to that link.
>
> white. More diversity than Canada, but not exactly a huge difference.
>
> Neil
Completely wrong.
c'mon man no you are not gonna get away with this.
That 75% included hispanics identifying as white. The white
population in 2001 was a cut under 70% and it's declined.
Look at the pie slices, man, and pay attention to the States where
whites are now outnumbered; they're substantial and nevermind the
anywhere from 10-20M illegals we have who aren't being counted
appropriately.
The difference is large, especially in what kind of diversity. Your
diversity is primarily asians...ours is black and hispanic. The
health care expenditure factors on these two demographics are worlds
apart and you know that, Gendwizzle.
Trav
trav...@aol.com
> Unusual levels of self-destructiveness probably accounts precisely for
> our "over"expenditure in resources v. outcomes. At some point you
> have to stop blaming "medicine" for people living on bacon-
> cheeseburgers and fries when they could afford veggies. I plead
> guilty, too: all my medical expenses have come from (avoidable) BJJ
> injuries.
You should switch to a school not filled by spazzing whitebelts...and
bluebelts.
Trav
l k
wrote:
1. dealing with spazzes and spasms has lots of cross-training
utility.
2. i can't point fingers since i'm purple and a spaz
3. it was all worth it, just to truthfully say i'm driving to BJJ by
NIH tonight
.
l k
Are you saying Mickey Mouse is White?
racist
trav...@aol.com
> utility.
> 2. i can't point fingers since i'm purple and a spaz
> 3. it was all worth it, just to truthfully say i'm driving to BJJ by
> NIH tonight
I personally think you suffer from hypochondria and some displaced
martyr complex...
We are currently despazzing one of your brown belts.
Trav
Neil Gendzwill
> On Jul 5, 5:16 pm, Neil Gendzwill <ngendzw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>travis...@aol.cominyrface wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Oh, BTW, while I'm up, take a look at this, mfer:
>>
>>>http://www.answers.com/topic/demographics-of-canada
>>
>>>That look fkin heterogeneous to you? You can go find the US version
>>
>>They didn't include the natives as a visible minority in those states,
>>which is truly a WTF thing. If you take them out of the "white" bin,
>>we're 83.3% white according to that link.
>>
>> Fromhttp://www.answers.com/topic/demographics-of-usa, the US is 74.7%
>>white. More diversity than Canada, but not exactly a huge difference.
>>
>>Neil
>
>
> Completely wrong.
Just gave you the numbers on the chart.
> The difference is large, especially in what kind of diversity. Your
> diversity is primarily asians...ours is black and hispanic.
True enough. The only black people in my town are grad students from
Africa. We sure have a lot of natives cluttering up our emergency wards
though.
> The
> health care expenditure factors on these two demographics are worlds
> apart and you know that.
I don't know that. But even if it's true, I suspect your increased
payroll cost has a much larger role in the difference in overall
expenditure. I think most docs in the US make something like 3X what
Canadian docs do (that statistic pulled out of memory, no I'm not going
to look up specifics). Nurses make considerably more, too, and they
routinely recruit both from Canadian schools. I've talked to some
people who've returned from working in the US - they like the money but
hate the system.
Neil
nemo_outis
news:0jbji.21901$tB5.12236@edtnps90:
> nemo_outis wrote:
>> "trav...@aol.cominyrface" <trav...@aol.com> wrote in
>> news:1183659597.8...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> That Canada freeloads off of us is indisputable.
>>
>> I dispute it. Care to back up what you say or are we to take this
>> latest load of your bullshit on faith?
>>
>> Regards,
> That the US has more funds for research into new techniques, new
> tools, etc. is not in question..
>
> That new technological breakthroughs are published in medical journals
> is *also* not in question..
>
> I can only assume this is what Trav is referring to..
Unlike you, I do not assume. Trav said Canada was "freeloading." I call
upon him to substantiate, in any meaningful way, that throwaway statement.
Otherwise it goes on the large (and rapidly getting larger) rubbish heap of
his unsupported asinine assertions.
Regards,
WannabeSo...@hotmail.com
<trav...@aol.com> wrote in message news:
1183652402.8...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Dude we outspend everyone in the fkin world in health care.
>
> WTF kinda crack are you smoking?
>
> Trav
>
Yet you have 45 millions people without basice medical insurance
coverage.
Wannabe
=======
suds mcduff
> on 2007-07-05 09:07 suds mcduff said the following:
>
> > On Jul 4, 10:18 pm, "Jerry B. Altzman" <jba...@altzman.com> wrote:
> >> on 2007-07-04 17:21 suds mcduff said the following:
> >> Remember that many GPs offices are not super-well-stocked with all
> >> manners of pharmaceuticals and tools-of-the-trade; the ERs, on the other
> >> hand, are.
> > -----Nah, I think it's because they don't want to be sued. Whenever we
>
> That weighs in on it, but for doctors NOT on an HMO, getting to do yet
> another billable item...
> Malpractice insurance also may not cover them.
> And, lastly, it's EXPENSIVE having to stock an office to cover all
> manner of things that don't come up but once in a blue moon in a private
> office, but an ER might see multiple times a month.
-----Ah, kids never need to be sutured or put in casts......
> Obviously, rural and urban areas are going to differ but...
>
> > called the pediatrician when my boys were growing up, she *always*
> > told us to head to the emergency room. My wife's various ailments were
> > met with the same advice. Seems there's no more "take two aspirin and
> > call me in the morning." When my son sustained a serious ankle sprain
>
> More like: the office is closed now, and if it's really urgent, there's
> an ER you can go to, or you can come in in the morning.
----Negative. In the twenty or so years my family has been under care
from different MDs, *never* has one said "come in tomorrow."
suds mcduff
------Advanced Placement Calculus and Advanced Placement Chemistry are
offered at my son's public high school, he's taking the former next
year. He's also taking AP Physics. Just showing that a good education
is available in public schools, it just takes some effort.
What makes you
> think HS students don't go to university?
-------I don't know where I said that. In fact, I said my oldest went
to public schools and obtained an academic scholarship to University.
My point was home schoolings fine perhaps for grade school, but most
folks will need help later on. That's not to mention the well meaning
moms who couldn't keep up and had to re enroll their kids, usually far
behind the grade level.
Herbert Cannon
>>
>> You dont fly to India for cheaper procedures - you fly to avoid long
>> waits
>> for surgery. If you have the money to fly to India you dont need cheaper
>> procedures.
>
>
> ----The articles I've read, the surgery is cheaper even with round
> trip airfare, which is why they went. A carpenter got heart surgery
> for much less in the article I read, even allowing for airfare.
Where are you reading these articles. If the care was so bad no one would be
flying there.
>> >> > ----The US embargo might have a little to do with that.
>>
>> >> I reckon the locking up of dissidents has much more to do with it.
>>
>> > -----Nope. The recent and current crop of refugees from Cuba are
>> > economically induced. They want a house with a pool and a boat like
>> > many of their former countrymen, if Castro could offer that, they'ed
>> > be happy to stay.
The point is that under communism he will never be able to offer. What? Are
you touting communism?
>> So who does not? They have been floating out of that country for years. A
>> friend of mine's family fled years ago. Cant speak for the " current
>> crop."
>
> ----The whole basis for the Cuban exodus was supposedly political
> (fleeing communism) during the cold war, but now it's economic. Why
> aren't they treated like Haitians and returned?
I believe we adopted a policy that said if they ( cubans) get their feet on
the beach they get to stay. If not they were returned. You would know more
about that than I.
Why do we have trade
> with the Vietnamese, with whom we had a pretty nasty war with if
> you'll remember, and not Cuba?
Capitalism won out in Nam - same as it is currently doing in China." I dont
care if it is a black cat or a white cat. If it catches mice it is a good
cat." Hell China is even trying to adopt the rule of law. Not yet in Cuba.
Same question could be asked about China though. I suspect it might have
something to do with the Cuban vote here.
Anyway I dont like Castro. Should have pulled the plug on him long ago. JFK
had the right idea. I am glad they offed Che. He was cold blooded killer. I
understand there is a new book out on him.
Funny joke: Castro was a appointing a Minister of Economics. He asked his in
group, "Who is a good economist." Che raised his hand. Castro appointed him
as Minister of Economics. Later Castro said, " I did not know you were a
economist." Che said, " I thought you said, 'who is a good communist.'" Told
to me by my friend who had a family that fled Cuba.
>
>
pboud
The difference is I try and identify when I do it..
P.
Herbert Cannon
"suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1183668341.4...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 5, 10:42 am, "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno...@cox.net> wrote:
>> . You can get a good education in
>>
>> > public school, you just have to reach out for it, and, it's not that
>> > much of a stretch.
>> > "You can lead a horse to water........"
>>
>> Not here you can.
>
> ---where is "here"
Baton Rouge. New Orleans was even worse before Katrina. It was so bad in New
Orleans a private firm had taken over the public schools in an attempt to
turn them around. I kid you not.
> Everyone I know is spending a fortune putting their kids
>> in a private school.
>
> ----They don't want race mixing, or they're creation nuts.
Utter bullshit. They want their kids to be able add two and two.
>
> The public school is in the toilet. They are still
>> bussing kids around with the system 98% minoirty.
>
> -----I don't know what you're saying, but I agree, kids need to go to
> a neighborhood school.
Yeah I live in a predominantly white neighborhood. The elementary school
here use to be a magnet ( advanced ) school. Seems that offended some of
the brothers so they did away with the magnets. The school is now 99 9/10%
black. Some neighborhood concept.
>
> It is a joke. The
>> superintendent is a moron.
>
>
> ----Really. Why did the school board hire him? Why doesn't the school
> board fire him?
> What are his qualifications?
Her. Politics and 45 % of the vote here is black and stupid. As one of our
senators said one time " We have the highest paid bus drivers in the nation
and kids who cannot read." Let me tell you something about education here.
We have one of the largest black colleges in the south here - Southern. Only
65% of their graduates are able to pass the teachers exam. At Louisiana
State University 98% of their graduates pass the exam. Is this getting thru
to you?
>> Even plenty smart black folks do it here.
>
> ----So, you're solution would be to destroy the public schools, and
> let those that can pay get an education, those that can't, tough shit?
My solution is for everyone to meet the same standard; and not drag down the
standard to meet a certain element of the population. The black population
needs to start demanding better and quit hiding behind excuses. For your
information, I have talked to good black teachers that think the system is
deplorable
Herbert Cannon
One of my very good friends is a black guy. He is a medical techologist. He
moved out of this parish ( county ) because of the schools. He is no fool.
This double standard needs to cease.
I have a friend in Houston who teaches in a private school. He can tell you
some pretty bad things about his school kids. I sometimes wonder if American
kids are different these days.
I was fortunate. I grew in a completely different atmosphere than today. We
did not need security guards in my school. You did not cross the teachers.