This has all happened before...
Rabid Weasel Lawson
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2575/3679215621_72aedccb42.jpg
Note the date.
Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk
hal
<lawson@NO30713SPAM+dayton.net> wrote:
>And it will all happen again.
yea except this time once again it's the Republican's that trashed the
economy for fun and profit.
Herbert Cannon
<hal> wrote in message news:25bo45drs2qb5g62c...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:21:27 -0400, Rabid Weasel Lawson
> <lawson@NO30713SPAM+dayton.net> wrote:
>
>>And it will all happen again.
>
> yea except this time once again it's the Republican's that trashed the
> economy for fun and profit.
>
TravIsGod
> economy for fun and profit.
yeah, peak oil had nothing to do with it, it was all Republicans.
They are so powerful, they have the ability to trash economies all
over the world and alter the laws of physics.
Lord knows that the biggest socialist economies like the USSR, are
still chugging right along.
Trav
Shuurai
> > yea except this time once again it's the Republican's that trashed the
> > economy for fun and profit.
>
> yeah, peak oil had nothing to do with it, it was all Republicans.
> They are so powerful, they have the ability to trash economies all
> over the world and alter the laws of physics.
For fun!
> Lord knows that the biggest socialist economies like the USSR, are
> still chugging right along.
And the people are so happy!
hal
wrote:
>> yea except this time once again it's the Republican's that trashed the
>> economy for fun and profit.
>
>yeah, peak oil had nothing to do with it, it was all Republicans.
>They are so powerful, they have the ability to trash economies all
>over the world and alter the laws of physics.
The progressives wanted to conserve, limit population, and look for
alternatives decades ago. The Republicans treated everything like it
was a big orgy without any tomorrow.
>
>Lord knows that the biggest socialist economies like the USSR, are
>still chugging right along.
you are once again confusing socialism with totalitarianism.
>
>Trav
Shuurai
> >yeah, peak oil had nothing to do with it, it was all Republicans.
> >They are so powerful, they have the ability to trash economies all
> >over the world and alter the laws of physics.
>
> The progressives wanted to conserve, limit population, and look for
> alternatives decades ago. The Republicans treated everything like it
> was a big orgy without any tomorrow.
Ah, I see... so none of those millions of SUV's out there on the
roads are owned by progressives then? Funny that so many of them are
sporting Obama stickers and other lefty shit; they must be
conservatives in disguise...
The fact of the matter is, progressives have been using (and abusing)
the same things in the same ways as conservatives, and any attempt on
your part to suggest otherwise is either blatant lying, utter
stupidity, or some combination thereof.
Speaking of looking for alternatives... progressives love to talk
about alternatives, but try building a large solar array or wind farm
someplace and see who crawls out of the woodwork to have it stopped.
Try actually getting the land rights to do updates to the electrical
grid and see who pisses and moans about it. Progressives say that
want alternative energy, but what they really want simply cannot be
accomplished save by cold fusion or faerie magic.
> >Lord knows that the biggest socialist economies like the USSR, are
> >still chugging right along.
>
> you are once again confusing socialism with totalitarianism.
Socialism is totalitarianism. The only difference between socialism
and communism is the terminology they use.
Herbert Cannon
>
> you are once again confusing socialism with totalitarianism.
You scratch your head and call it jock itch doncha.
TravIsGod
> alternatives decades ago. The Republicans treated everything like it
> was a big orgy without any tomorrow.
Of COURSE they did.
The Clitton years were the very HIGH POINT of conservation and looking
ahead for a sustainable future.
Oh no wait, that was the decade of the .com bubble, the start of the
housing bubble, the dismantlement of all securities and fraud
protection from wall street, the era of Enron accounting, and the
heyday of the land yacht SUV.
So where the fuck were these "progressives"? Or by that do you mean
fringe socialists?
It should have been obvious after 1970 what was going to happen
globally, but nobody did NOTHING, moron.
> you are once again confusing socialism with totalitarianism.
LOL. What better example of Marxist socialism IS THERE than the
USSR? There's your dictatorship of the proletariat, no?
Every socialist economy is going to fail, and fail miserably, hal.
About the only country on earth that was DILIGENT was Norway, but they
cannot be compared to us with our massive 3rd world gimme gimme
demographic.
It's got to frost balls that the only nations that took care to
steward resources were the fucking WHITEST. Socialism FAILS when it
is structured as transfer subsidies from rich to poor. It only WORKS
when a homegeneous society ALL pitches in. There are no real poor in
Norway because the "poor" there DON'T BEHAVE LIKE POOR. They could
all be rich!
When you talk of limiting population, HAL, you mean eugenics. That
makes you some kind of closet fascist. Why don't you come right out
and admit it?
You're ALL FOR socialism when it does NOT include lazy fucking
criminal bums like 25% of our population is. You wouldn't tolerate
these people in your freakin commune, nor should you. You and I are
in FULL agreement on this. If you want a cooperative system to work
you must have COOPERATION. But we have a massive amount of violent,
aggressive, noncooperative people who hail from societies where their
genetic peers fucking WRECK shit. If you want to come right out and
finally ADVOCATE population control, then I'll back you up on it.
Otherwise, keep being a fucking coward.
Carrying a population from whom more than half of all violent crime
originates is a luxury we can no longer afford. We cannot afford to
overfeed countries that cannot self-sustain...it requires too fucking
much oil. These people must feed themselves and sustain themselves.
Certain populations have had 5000 years to develop sustainable
societies and have failed. We need more people like Norweigians and
less like those from societies that manifest nonstop dysfunction in
every aspect of their being.
Trav
TravIsGod
> roads are owned by progressives then? Funny that so many of them are
> sporting Obama stickers and other lefty shit; they must be
> conservatives in disguise...
I see these all the time here and LOL my ass off. Fuckin bunch of
hypocrites.
> The fact of the matter is, progressives have been using (and abusing)
> the same things in the same ways as conservatives, and any attempt on
> your part to suggest otherwise is either blatant lying, utter
> stupidity, or some combination thereof.
Hal's not a liberal; he's a fascist. He is probably not smart enough
to be permitted to have children in a new world order but he's smart
enough to be able to realize that population control won't mean a per
capita ration on children.
We need FAR LESS of the type of people clogging jails yet they have
the highest birthrate. The only downward pressure on their birthrates
are sadly starvation and famine. So unless whitey is going to IMPOSE
it upon this class in a completely oppressive and eugenicized manner,
then people like hal need to just flat STFU.
> Speaking of looking for alternatives... progressives love to talk
> about alternatives, but try building a large solar array or wind farm
> someplace and see who crawls out of the woodwork to have it stopped.
> Try actually getting the land rights to do updates to the electrical
> grid and see who pisses and moans about it. Progressives say that
> want alternative energy, but what they really want simply cannot be
> accomplished save by cold fusion or faerie magic.
Like I tell my kids, they all love electricity but hate power plants.
Buncha idiots.
Trav
suds mcduff
---You can say that again.....
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/politicalcartoons/ig/Political-Cartoons/GOP-Family-Values.htm
Herbert Cannon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpI4vCMTuFQ
Slim
> On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:21:27 -0400, Rabid Weasel Lawson
> <lawson@NO30713SPAM+dayton.net> wrote:
>
>> And it will all happen again.
>
> yea except this time once again it's the Republican's that trashed the
> economy for fun and profit.
Halliburton and KBR are STILL running amok in the middle east thanks to Cheney.
--
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis
Slim
Thats right.
Slim
> Progressives say that
> want alternative energy, but what they really want simply cannot be
> accomplished save by cold fusion or faerie magic.
WOW!!! Straight out of the "Clean Coal" Propaganda Prayerbook!!!
Slim
>
>>
>> you are once again confusing socialism with totalitarianism.
>
> You scratch your head and call it jock itch doncha.
You scratch yours because its herpes.
Jerry B. Altzman
> On 2009-07-02 15:04:12 -0400, Shuurai <shuu...@gmail.com> said:
>> Progressives say that
>> want alternative energy, but what they really want simply cannot be
>> accomplished save by cold fusion or faerie magic.
> WOW!!! Straight out of the "Clean Coal" Propaganda Prayerbook!!!
I think Shuurai and I would both like to see commercially viable hot
fusion, though. That'd be TOTALLY AWESOME!
//jbaltz
--
jerry b. altzman jba...@altzman.com www.jbaltz.com
thank you for contributing to the heat death of the universe.
Herbert Cannon
"Slim" <sl...@pickins.com> wrote in message
news:2009070317435222503-slim@pickinscom...
> On 2009-07-02 15:55:02 -0400, "Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> said:
>
>>
>>>
>>> you are once again confusing socialism with totalitarianism.
>>
>> You scratch your head and call it jock itch doncha.
>
> You scratch yours because its herpes.
You cannot scratch yours because, as usual, it is stuck up your ass.
Herbert Cannon
> On 2009-07-02 08:03:44 -0400, "Herbert Cannon" <hcan...@cox.net> said:
>
>>
>> <hal> wrote in message news:25bo45drs2qb5g62c...@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:21:27 -0400, Rabid Weasel Lawson
>>> <lawson@NO30713SPAM+dayton.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And it will all happen again.
>>>
>>> yea except this time once again it's the Republican's that trashed the
>>> economy for fun and profit.
>>>
>> World wide imagine that.
>
> Thats right.
>
TravIsGod
Cheney is no longer in office.
Trav
Rabid Weasel Lawson
> on 7/3/2009 5:43 PM Slim said the following:
>> On 2009-07-02 15:04:12 -0400, Shuurai <shuu...@gmail.com> said:
>>> Progressives say that
>>> want alternative energy, but what they really want simply cannot be
>>> accomplished save by cold fusion or faerie magic.
>> WOW!!! Straight out of the "Clean Coal" Propaganda Prayerbook!!!
>
> I think Shuurai and I would both like to see commercially viable hot
> fusion, though. That'd be TOTALLY AWESOME!
Cold Fusion, Hot Fusion, Crap, I don't care, just get something other than
what we've been doing. There's a boat load of viable options, Nuke and
GT seem to be the best bets but I'd be happy with more wind and solar. :P
And yes, I'd be happy to have a nuke plant in my back yard. Make it two.
David O'Daniel
"Cold Fusion, Hot Fusion, Crap, I don't care, just get something other
than what we've been doing. There's a boat load of viable options, Nuke
and GT seem to be the best bets but I'd be happy with more wind and
solar. :P
And yes, I'd be happy to have a nuke plant in my back yard. Make it two.
Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk"
<Bo>: Yep but the same ones who block US nuclear power demand the right
for such as Iran & N. Korea to have nuclear power, after all they will
use it for peace only.
Now the plan seems to be pay big taxpayer-funded rebates $3500-4500 to
turn in your old car & get a new green car & pay for it by taxing
electricity, the point of getting everybody to then buy electric cars
with the rebates. ;-) All ignoring how the "electricity" is made.
Like the suggestion of making Borccoli illegal & thus boosting it's
consumption by rebellious nature of people, we just need to tax nuclear
more so that the politicians see "$green" revenue in going nuclear &
there will be plants popping up everywhere, just like why we still have
tobacco as a major crop. ;-)
Bo
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and
degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing is
worth a war, is worse." --- John Stuart Mill
hal
wrote:
>
>Like the suggestion of making Borccoli illegal & thus boosting it's
>consumption by rebellious nature of people,
if borccoli is outlawed then only outlaws will have borccoli.
suds mcduff
> Careful, Dump, they are beginning to wake up and realize they have been had:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpI4vCMTuFQ
>
>
chair....with help from the Repub legislature...ah, Repub
hypocricy...some things never change....
Herbert Cannon
"suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:BEH3m.19200$Xl4....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>> Careful, Dump, they are beginning to wake up and realize they have been
>> had:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpI4vCMTuFQ
> ---The Repubs? Never!
The press you fool watch the clip.
The adulterer is clinging on to the gov's
> chair...
He is history, Duds.
.with help from the Repub legislature...ah, Repub
> hypocricy...some things never change...
You mean Spitzer and Edwards changed?
What hypocisy somethings never change
David O'Daniel
"if borccoli <NM, seems spell checker does say it is wrong> is outlawed
then only outlaws will have borccoli."
<Bo>: Yes, apparently "Borocoli <apparently is not, rather>" is the
correct spelling of some word or other by spell-check I guess. Or was
this the post I didn't bother with as it was late?
But yes, so, only those rebels breaking the law. Surely you're not
suggesting every last single user/possessor of illegal drugs should be
severely dealt with, with a 0 tolerance. Think of all those politicians
how tried but did or did not inhale or whatever. Not that I'm not for
it, ;-)
Though of course that was the point, make it illegal to draw in the
average rebellious human natured person who would eat broccoli just
because it is forbidden. Afghans could grow broccoli instead of poppies,
but surely none of them grow anything illegal, course not..
Shuurai
> >> want alternative energy, but what they really want simply cannot be
> >> accomplished save by cold fusion or faerie magic.
> > WOW!!! Straight out of the "Clean Coal" Propaganda Prayerbook!!!
>
> I think Shuurai and I would both like to see commercially viable hot
> fusion, though. That'd be TOTALLY AWESOME!
Still a long way off from commercially viable, but there is work being
done:
TravIsGod
Fusion is 10 years away like it has been for the last 30...total pipe
dream
Trav
Slim
Like SDI....now WHERE did those BILLIONS OF TAX DOLLARS GO?????
TravIsGod
Where'd the trillions your Messiah has poured into the banks go?
Trav
Jerry B. Altzman
The running joke in the physics community, from before I was an
undergrad, is that commercial fusion is "5-10 years out"...no matter
when you ask.
Shuurai
> > Still a long way off from commercially viable, but there is work being
> > done:
> >https://lasers.llnl.gov/
>
> The running joke in the physics community, from before I was an
> undergrad, is that commercial fusion is "5-10 years out"...no matter
> when you ask.
True enough; five to ten years for commercial fusion would be
extremely optimistic. But there is plenty of work being done; fusion
itself is not nearly as difficult as most people believe.
suds mcduff
---What office do Spitzer and Edwards hold?
Which one of there posed as a moral standard bearer while castigating
others for adultery...yep, the Repub gold standard hypocricy....
TravIsGod
> extremely optimistic. But there is plenty of work being done; fusion
> itself is not nearly as difficult as most people believe.
LOL...riiiiight.
That's why it's been 10 years away for 30 years. We apparently are
going to need massively more computer power if we're to solve this
one, which is why my proposals for "if I were President" include an
initiative to shrink Moore's Law at the front and center.
Trav
TravIsGod
> Which one of there posed as a moral standard bearer while castigating
> others for adultery...yep, the Repub gold standard hypocricy....
Spritzer was seeing prostitutes while busting prostitution rings...wtf
are you talking about, dipshit?
Trav
Shuurai
Achieving fusion is easy; achieving stable, sustained fusion that
produces positive net power on a large enough scale to be a commercial
source of energy is the problem.
Pyroelectric fusion, for example, is already being used today a as a
source of neutrons in particle accelerators; but it does not produce a
positive energy yield. The Farnsworth-Hirsch fusor is an example of
relatively cheap fusion that is easy - it's been done by college
students and hobbyists - but so far has proven too unstable to be of
much use beyond research. However, it has also been used as a neutron
source.
There are a few lines that are showing promise for positive net, but
all of them are still a long, long way off.
TravIsGod
> produces positive net power on a large enough scale to be a commercial
> source of energy is the problem.
Dude, I know this already. We achieved fusion with the Hydrogen
Bomb. Does not make it relevant to this particular technical problem.
> students and hobbyists - but so far has proven too unstable to be of
> much use beyond research. However, it has also been used as a neutron
> source.
>
> There are a few lines that are showing promise for positive net, but
> all of them are still a long, long way off.
I know. Thus my pessimism about the future.
Trav
Herbert Cannon
> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>> "suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:BEH3m.19200$Xl4....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>>> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>>>> Careful, Dump, they are beginning to wake up and realize they have been
>>>> had:
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpI4vCMTuFQ
>>> ---The Repubs? Never!
>>
>> The press you fool watch the clip.
>>
>> The adulterer is clinging on to the gov's
>>> chair...
>>
>> He is history, Duds.
>>
>> .with help from the Repub legislature...ah, Repub
>>> hypocricy...some things never change...
>>
>> You mean Spitzer and Edwards changed?
>> What hypocisy somethings never change
>
> ---What office do Spitzer and Edwards hold?
Held.
> Which one of there posed as a moral standard bearer while castigating
> others for adultery...yep, the Repub gold standard hypocricy....
Both
Jerry B. Altzman
It's so easy, the Sun does it without even thinking!
It's so easy, it only takes 100 million dollars, 10 years of work, some
of the smartest physicists and engineers around and the fanciest set of
lasers you EVER did see to make it work on a sustainable basis...
It's so easy, we can make a BOMB do it!
or something like that.
:-)
suds mcduff
---Spitzer was more well known for busting rich ass cheats. Not to
mention that busting up rings was his job...I note you won't cop to the
obvious Repub hypocricy.....again.....
suds mcduff
> "suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:pM24m.19664$Xl4....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>>> "suds mcduff" <sudsmcd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:BEH3m.19200$Xl4....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>>>> Herbert Cannon wrote:
>>>>> Careful, Dump, they are beginning to wake up and realize they have been
>>>>> had:
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpI4vCMTuFQ
>>>> ---The Repubs? Never!
>>> The press you fool watch the clip.
>>>
>>> The adulterer is clinging on to the gov's
>>>> chair...
>>> He is history, Duds.
>>>
>>> .with help from the Repub legislature...ah, Repub
>>>> hypocricy...some things never change...
>>> You mean Spitzer and Edwards changed?
>>> What hypocisy somethings never change
>> ---What office do Spitzer and Edwards hold?
>
> Held.
---What office does Sanford currently hold.....the one that prominent
Repubs, including Sen. Tom Davis, R-Beaufort, want him to continue to hold?
>
>> Which one of there posed as a moral standard bearer while castigating
>> others for adultery...yep, the Repub gold standard hypocricy....
>
> Both
----Really? Prove it.....
Shuurai
> > True enough; five to ten years for commercial fusion would be
> > extremely optimistic. But there is plenty of work being done; fusion
> > itself is not nearly as difficult as most people believe.
>
> It's so easy, the Sun does it without even thinking!
So now you're presuming to know what the sun is thinking?
> It's so easy, it only takes 100 million dollars, 10 years of work, some
> of the smartest physicists and engineers around and the fanciest set of
> lasers you EVER did see to make it work on a sustainable basis...
Again, it's that whole "sustainable" thing that's really proving
tough.
If nothing else, we could always find some zombie bears to attach the
lasers to.
TravIsGod
> mention that busting up rings was his job...I note you won't cop to the
> obvious Repub hypocricy.....again.....
Huh? No, that's not it at all, you fucking moron.
The rightards on this forum generally AGREE that the Repugnicon Party
is full of corrupt wastes of flesh. It is YOU on the leftard side
that continue to cheerlead. There's no point in wasting significant
time pointing out something that has already been STIPULATED to.
I have ALREADY gone on record saying I do not CARE if these guys cheat
on their spouses.
What this boils down to is that EVERY SINGLE "sin" by a Repugnicon is
a "big deal," while when a Demofag does it, it's a non-issue, right?
That's how it is for you. THAT is hypocrisy.
You've never been ANYWHERE when a democrap gets busted cheating...you
say it shouldn't matter. No it should ONLY matter when a repugnicon
gets caught, right? The "rules" of behavior only apply to the OTHER
guys.
IOW, YOU are the hypocrite as well as being a moron.
Trav
Jerry B. Altzman
>>> True enough; five to ten years for commercial fusion would be
>>> extremely optimistic. But there is plenty of work being done; fusion
>>> itself is not nearly as difficult as most people believe.
>> It's so easy, the Sun does it without even thinking!
> So now you're presuming to know what the sun is thinking?
Even a blind man knows when the sun shines.
>> It's so easy, it only takes 100 million dollars, 10 years of work, some
>> of the smartest physicists and engineers around and the fanciest set of
>> lasers you EVER did see to make it work on a sustainable basis...
> Again, it's that whole "sustainable" thing that's really proving
> tough.
Dude, if we're talking about energy generation, sustainable, energy
positive is IT. Talking about anything else is sophistry. "Oh yeah, we
can generate fusion...energy negative, for a few milliseconds..."
> If nothing else, we could always find some zombie bears to attach the
> lasers to.
They'd be no match against a herd of berzerkers wielding spring-loaded
ninja!
Shuurai
> >> It's so easy, it only takes 100 million dollars, 10 years of work, some
> >> of the smartest physicists and engineers around and the fanciest set of
> >> lasers you EVER did see to make it work on a sustainable basis...
> > Again, it's that whole "sustainable" thing that's really proving
> > tough.
>
> Dude, if we're talking about energy generation, sustainable, energy
> positive is IT. Talking about anything else is sophistry. "Oh yeah, we
> can generate fusion...energy negative, for a few milliseconds..."
See, if people like you'd been around when the Wright brothers were
doing their tests, we'd never have achieved commercial flight. You'd
be all like "See, it can't actually turn or anything..." and talk them
out of the research.
Sustained fusion exists right now; it's used as a source of neutrons
for example for particle research. There are sustained, positive
energy designs out there right now; they're just on too small a scale
to be useful. Hell, you can build a Farnsworth-Hirsch in your
basement and you'll technically have relatively stable, energy
positive (okay, very, very slightly energy positive) fusion; provided
you can avoid frying yourself in the process.
And, there are some designs in the works that are nicely energy
positive; just not quite (okay, not even remotely) stable yet; but
there is progress being made.
And in five to ten years... :b
Jerry B. Altzman
>>>> It's so easy, it only takes 100 million dollars, 10 years of work, some
>>>> of the smartest physicists and engineers around and the fanciest set of
>>>> lasers you EVER did see to make it work on a sustainable basis...
>>> Again, it's that whole "sustainable" thing that's really proving
>>> tough.
>> Dude, if we're talking about energy generation, sustainable, energy
>> positive is IT. Talking about anything else is sophistry. "Oh yeah, we
>> can generate fusion...energy negative, for a few milliseconds..."
> See, if people like you'd been around when the Wright brothers were
> doing their tests, we'd never have achieved commercial flight. You'd
> be all like "See, it can't actually turn or anything..." and talk them
> out of the research.
No, because, you know, the Wright brothers actually achieved sustainable
flight, without, you know, 100 million dollars in research, and without
promising "in 5 to 10 years, for SURE!" They just went ahead and did it.
Look, I love the idea of sustainable fusion energy; it'd be pretty much
the end of our energy worries for the foreseeable future. (It might just
entice me back into academia.) But it's just not there now, and every
year the prediction comes out "soon", from those ACTUALLY DOING THE
WORK. Maybe the AIF will do the trick...maybe it won't. We're inching
closer, sure,
> And in five to ten years... :b
Any day now...any day.
Sam the Bam
> The running joke in the physics community, from before I was an
> undergrad, is that commercial fusion is "5-10 years out"...no matter
> when you ask.
Steven Chu, one of the world's brightest bulbs,
says the same thing, today... and he's in
a position of some influence...
Sam
TravIsGod
> on 7/6/2009 5:07 PM Shuurai said the following:
>
> >>>> It's so easy, it only takes 100 million dollars, 10 years of work, some
> >>>> of the smartest physicists and engineers around and the fanciest set of
> >>>> lasers you EVER did see to make it work on a sustainable basis...
> >>> Again, it's that whole "sustainable" thing that's really proving
> >>> tough.
> >> Dude, if we're talking about energy generation, sustainable, energy
> >> positive is IT. Talking about anything else is sophistry. "Oh yeah, we
> >> can generate fusion...energy negative, for a few milliseconds..."
> > See, if people like you'd been around when the Wright brothers were
> > doing their tests, we'd never have achieved commercial flight. You'd
> > be all like "See, it can't actually turn or anything..." and talk them
> > out of the research.
>
> No, because, you know, the Wright brothers actually achieved sustainable
> flight, without, you know, 100 million dollars in research, and without
> promising "in 5 to 10 years, for SURE!" They just went ahead and did it.
>
> Look, I love the idea of sustainable fusion energy; it'd be pretty much
> the end of our energy worries for the foreseeable future. (It might just
> entice me back into academia.) But it's just not there now, and every
> year the prediction comes out "soon", from those ACTUALLY DOING THE
> WORK. Maybe the AIF will do the trick...maybe it won't. We're inching
> closer, sure,
Again, shrink moore's law and develop RT superconductors.
IOW, real investment, not more debt for wars and mcmansions.
Trav
Shuurai
> > See, if people like you'd been around when the Wright brothers were
> > doing their tests, we'd never have achieved commercial flight. You'd
> > be all like "See, it can't actually turn or anything..." and talk them
> > out of the research.
>
> No, because, you know, the Wright brothers actually achieved sustainable
> flight, without, you know, 100 million dollars in research, and without
> promising "in 5 to 10 years, for SURE!" They just went ahead and did it.
Sustained fusion is slightly more complicated than building an
airplane. And 100 million dollars is really not all that much money
in the realm of scientific research. If we invested like we did with
the Apollo program; and that means not only putting forth the money,
but coordinating how that money is spent with a real goal in mind, we
could make significant progress.
We need faster, more powerful computers for simulation; we need higher
temperature superconductivity; we need more efficient lasers, etc.
> Look, I love the idea of sustainable fusion energy; it'd be pretty much
> the end of our energy worries for the foreseeable future. (It might just
> entice me back into academia.) But it's just not there now, and every
> year the prediction comes out "soon", from those ACTUALLY DOING THE
> WORK. Maybe the AIF will do the trick...maybe it won't. We're inching
> closer, sure,
The same can be said for any cutting edge research. We spend billions
every year on shit that really isn't that much more likely to succeed,
or even likely to be useful if it does succeed. How many hundreds of
millions have been spent on putting little radio controlled cars on
Mars? Or looking for water on the moons of Saturn?
> > And in five to ten years... :b
>
> Any day now...any day.
Look, it's people like you what cause unrest.
Jerry B. Altzman
>>> See, if people like you'd been around when the Wright brothers were
>>> doing their tests, we'd never have achieved commercial flight. You'd
>>> be all like "See, it can't actually turn or anything..." and talk them
>>> out of the research.
>> No, because, you know, the Wright brothers actually achieved sustainable
>> flight, without, you know, 100 million dollars in research, and without
>> promising "in 5 to 10 years, for SURE!" They just went ahead and did it.
> Sustained fusion is slightly more complicated than building an
> airplane. And 100 million dollars is really not all that much money
WellDUH
> in the realm of scientific research. If we invested like we did with
> the Apollo program; and that means not only putting forth the money,
> but coordinating how that money is spent with a real goal in mind, we
> could make significant progress.
I think I may have understated the amount of money that's gone in to
AIF. And AIF and its predecessors certainly HAVE been very directed
research projects, more so than accelerator projects. AIF *has* driven a
lot of research into algorithms, using GPUs as general purpose
computing, etc.
> We need faster, more powerful computers for simulation; we need higher
> temperature superconductivity; we need more efficient lasers, etc.
All of these things would bring side benefits as well. But really, so what?
>> Look, I love the idea of sustainable fusion energy; it'd be pretty much
>> the end of our energy worries for the foreseeable future. (It might just
>> entice me back into academia.) But it's just not there now, and every
>> year the prediction comes out "soon", from those ACTUALLY DOING THE
>> WORK. Maybe the AIF will do the trick...maybe it won't. We're inching
>> closer, sure,
> The same can be said for any cutting edge research. We spend billions
> every year on shit that really isn't that much more likely to succeed,
> or even likely to be useful if it does succeed. How many hundreds of
> millions have been spent on putting little radio controlled cars on
> Mars? Or looking for water on the moons of Saturn?
In fact...those types of basic research programs (unmanned space) have
tended to be VERY cost effective in terms of knowledge gained versus
money spent.
But that wasn't my point (whether money on the AIF was worth it or not).
I was only mocking the "any day now...any day" response to folks who
think that fusion is just around the corner.
>>> And in five to ten years... :b
>> Any day now...any day.
> Look, it's people like you what cause unrest.
Damn straight!
If it weren't for people like me, you'd still be living like Hal on the
mountaintop, using flint to start cooking fires and watching other men
TP your wife.
Paul Cardinale
For decades, they used to say the same thing about hang-on-the-wall
flat-screen TVs.
The truth is that the pace at which any technology advances is
unpredictable.
Futurists are almost always wrong.
Paul Cardinale
Shuurai
> > We need faster, more powerful computers for simulation; we need higher
> > temperature superconductivity; we need more efficient lasers, etc.
>
> All of these things would bring side benefits as well. But really, so what?
The point being, those things are some of the prerequisites to fusion;
but not nearly enough is being done to direct their development
towards fusion. It's often pointed out how many useful inventions
came out of the Apollo program, but what people miss is that most of
them were developed *because* someone said "We need X in order for
this project to work" and then got the funding to make it happen.
What we need is an Apollo program for fusion.
> > The same can be said for any cutting edge research. We spend billions
> > every year on shit that really isn't that much more likely to succeed,
> > or even likely to be useful if it does succeed. How many hundreds of
> > millions have been spent on putting little radio controlled cars on
> > Mars? Or looking for water on the moons of Saturn?
>
> In fact...those types of basic research programs (unmanned space) have
> tended to be VERY cost effective in terms of knowledge gained versus
> money spent.
Oh, I agree... but at some point we have to look at actual, tangible
returns; actual benefits to society. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for
exploration - even if only for the sake of exploration - but there has
to be priorities. And in my view, the priorities are way out of
whack. Energy should be at the forefront.
> But that wasn't my point (whether money on the AIF was worth it or not).
> I was only mocking the "any day now...any day" response to folks who
> think that fusion is just around the corner.
It is... it's just... a really big corner.
> >>> And in five to ten years... :b
> >> Any day now...any day.
> > Look, it's people like you what cause unrest.
>
> Damn straight!
>
> If it weren't for people like me, you'd still be living like Hal on the
> mountaintop, using flint to start cooking fires and watching other men
> TP your wife.
YOU are the one trying to prevent mankind from moving forward into the
glorious era of fusion. I suppose you're looking forward to the
global wars over oil, the choking death of the environment, and the
eventual rise of hoards of cannibalistic mutants that will rove the
lands. You no doubt feel a sick pride in the role that your nay-
saying will play in the deaths of untold billions, and the hellish
torment that awaits those unlucky enough to survive.
Stanley Moore
"Shuurai" <shuu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:798a7373-6931-498f...@r33g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
*****************************************************************
OTOH I am sure when cheap clean fusion energy is available the
environmentalists will lobby to keep plants from being built anywhere. <G>
Take care
--
Stanley L. Moore
"The belief in a supernatural
source of evil is not necessary;
men alone are quite capable
of every wickedness."
Joseph Conrad
tadchem
Shuurai
> OTOH I am sure when cheap clean fusion energy is available the
> environmentalists will lobby to keep plants from being built anywhere. <G>
> Take care
Good point... part of the plan needs to involve converting
environmentalists into tritium.
suds mcduff
>> ---Spitzer was more well known for busting rich ass cheats. Not to
>> mention that busting up rings was his job...I note you won't cop to the
>> obvious Repub hypocricy.....again.....
>
> Huh? No, that's not it at all, you fucking moron.
>
> The rightards on this forum generally AGREE that the Repugnicon Party
> is full of corrupt wastes of flesh. It is YOU on the leftard side
> that continue to cheerlead. There's no point in wasting significant
> time pointing out something that has already been STIPULATED to.
>
> I have ALREADY gone on record saying I do not CARE if these guys cheat
> on their spouses.
----That's not where the hypocrisy lies, you fucking douche...the Repubs
throw themselves up as paragons of biblical virtue while castigating
Dems for their affairs....and you give them a pass....you have *never*
commented on Repub hypocrisy....yet are happy to throw stones at the
Dems....fucking waterboy....
>
> What this boils down to is that EVERY SINGLE "sin" by a Repugnicon is
> a "big deal," while when a Demofag does it, it's a non-issue, right?
----No, dope, that's not where the hypocrisy comes in...you sure are
obtuse for a so called genius...
> That's how it is for you. THAT is hypocrisy.
----No, douchebag, you are ignoring Repub hypocrisies ...
>
> You've never been ANYWHERE when a democrap gets busted cheating...you
> say it shouldn't matter.
---Really? Where? With the Spitzer thing I wondered how such a smart guy
could be so stupid....
No it should ONLY matter when a repugnicon
> gets caught, right?
---Explained above, shitheel...Dems don't tend to thump the bible and
pretend to be moral arbitrators like these Repub hypocrites....and you
don't mention a word about that hypocricy, do you...you dishonest turd...
The "rules" of behavior only apply to the OTHER
> guys.
>
> IOW, YOU are the hypocrite as well as being a moron.
-----And you just keep on totin that Repub water, asshole....
Jerry B. Altzman
> What we need is an Apollo program for fusion.
Because, clearly, the AIF just isn't enough.
We need an Apollo program for energy futures *altogether*, of which
sustainable fusion *must* be a part.
But fusion is 5-10 years out. Wind is right now. Solar is right now. We
can do lots with that too.
>> In fact...those types of basic research programs (unmanned space) have
>> tended to be VERY cost effective in terms of knowledge gained versus
>> money spent.
> Oh, I agree... but at some point we have to look at actual, tangible
> returns; actual benefits to society. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for
95% of basic research has as its societal return "pushing further out
the boundary of human ignorance".
>> But that wasn't my point (whether money on the AIF was worth it or not).
>> I was only mocking the "any day now...any day" response to folks who
>> think that fusion is just around the corner.
> It is... it's just... a really big corner.
Right. And Obama's debt is "just a really big number" :-P
>> If it weren't for people like me, you'd still be living like Hal on the
>> mountaintop, using flint to start cooking fires and watching other men
>> TP your wife.
> YOU are the one trying to prevent mankind from moving forward into the
> glorious era of fusion. I suppose you're looking forward to the
Caught!
I threw the shoes into the machinery. I bet you got pictures of it on
that newfangled soul-stealing picture-taking-thingy you've got.
> global wars over oil, the choking death of the environment, and the
> eventual rise of hoards of cannibalistic mutants that will rove the
> lands. You no doubt feel a sick pride in the role that your nay-
> saying will play in the deaths of untold billions, and the hellish
> torment that awaits those unlucky enough to survive.
"Two go in...one comes out!"
Jerry B. Altzman
Can you imagine how long we could power the US on just Al Gore's mass
equivalent in energy?
Of course, with our luck, he'd get turned into some kind of giant blue
omnipotent particle-manipulating superhero or something.
Sam the Bam
> > >The running joke in the physics community, from before I
> > >was an undergrad, is that commercial fusion is "5-10 years out"...
> > >no matter when you ask.
>
> > Steven Chu, one of the world's brightest bulbs,
> > says the same thing, today... and he's in
> > a position of some influence...
>
> http://climateresearchnews.com/2009/06/mystic-chu-sees-the-future/
Chu was being sarcastic, in case that wasn't
clear. He's well aware of the history of fusion
research... and fusion predictions.
Also, your cited article quotes Frank Tipler...
LOL, one of the world's most brilliant kooks.
Sam
Sam the Bam
> > >The running joke in the physics community, from before
> > >I was an undergrad, is that commercial fusion is "5-10 years
> > >out"...no matter when you ask.
>
> > Steven Chu, one of the world's brightest bulbs,
> > says the same thing, today... and he's in
> > a position of some influence...
>
> hang-on-the-wall flat-screen TVs.
> The truth is that the pace at which any technology advances is
> unpredictable.
> Futurists are almost always wrong.
Would you say they will always be wrong?
Sam
tadchem
My point is that not everybody considers "climate predictions"
credible, even (maybe *especially*) from a physicist.
http://www.zimbio.com/Steven+Chu/articles/13/Air+Head+Month+Candidate+Energy+Secretary
I find your use of the work "kook" to describe a Professor of
Mathematical Physics at Tulane University (Tipler) a gratuitous ad
hominem attack, considering that his qualifications in climate science
are just as good as those of Chu.
But once a participant in debate resorts to ad hominem attacks, the
tenor of the debate hjas been shattered.
I will therefore wish you luck in your efforts to progress beyond
grade-school rhetorical tactics and *plonk* you.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
Herbert Cannon
> TravIsGod wrote:
>>> ---Spitzer was more well known for busting rich ass cheats. Not to
>>> mention that busting up rings was his job...I note you won't cop to the
>>> obvious Repub hypocricy.....again.....
>>
>> Huh? No, that's not it at all, you fucking moron.
>>
>> The rightards on this forum generally AGREE that the Repugnicon Party
>> is full of corrupt wastes of flesh. It is YOU on the leftard side
>> that continue to cheerlead. There's no point in wasting significant
>> time pointing out something that has already been STIPULATED to.
>>
>> I have ALREADY gone on record saying I do not CARE if these guys cheat
>> on their spouses.
>
> ----That's not where the hypocrisy lies, you fucking douche...the Repubs
> throw themselves up as paragons of biblical virtue while castigating Dems
> for their affairs....and you give them a pass....you have *never*
> commented on Repub hypocrisy....yet are happy to throw stones at the
> Dems....fucking waterboy....
Well hell you give every Dem a pass for any behavior while castigating
Repubs. Oh shit I forgot your double standard.
As your were.
>
>>
>> What this boils down to is that EVERY SINGLE "sin" by a Repugnicon is
>> a "big deal," while when a Demofag does it, it's a non-issue, right?
>
> ----No, dope, that's not where the hypocrisy comes in...you sure are
> obtuse for a so called genius...
>
>> That's how it is for you. THAT is hypocrisy.
>
> ----No, douchebag, you are ignoring Repub hypocrisies ...
Double standard
>
>>
>> You've never been ANYWHERE when a democrap gets busted cheating...you
>> say it shouldn't matter.
>
> ---Really? Where? With the Spitzer thing I wondered how such a smart guy
> could be so stupid....
>
> No it should ONLY matter when a repugnicon
>> gets caught, right?
>
> ---Explained above, shitheel...Dems don't tend to thump the bible and
> pretend to be moral arbitrators like these Repub hypocrites....and you
> don't mention a word about that hypocricy, do you...you dishonest turd...
Naw they need to be Spitzer breaking up prostitution rings and prosecuting
them while using them. Now there is a real honest democrat. No hyporcrisy
there huh, Dunce Duds.
zzbu...@netscape.net
Well, that's similar to the running joke when I was an undergrad.
Space is only 5 years away. So since most of us have worked
on nothing but GPS, Holograms, and Drones.
>
> Sam
Herbert Cannon
>
> ----That's not where the hypocrisy lies, you fucking douche...the Repubs
> throw themselves up as paragons of biblical virtue while castigating Dems
> for their affairs....and you give them a pass....you have *never*
> commented on Repub hypocrisy....yet are happy to throw stones at the
> Dems....fucking waterboy....
>
>>
>> What this boils down to is that EVERY SINGLE "sin" by a Repugnicon is
>> a "big deal," while when a Demofag does it, it's a non-issue, right?
>
> ----No, dope, that's not where the hypocrisy comes in...you sure are
> obtuse for a so called genius...
>
>> That's how it is for you. THAT is hypocrisy.
>
> ----No, douchebag, you are ignoring Repub hypocrisies ...
>
>>
>> You've never been ANYWHERE when a democrap gets busted cheating...you
>> say it shouldn't matter.
>
> ---Really? Where? With the Spitzer thing I wondered how such a smart guy
> could be so stupid....
>
> No it should ONLY matter when a repugnicon
>> gets caught, right?
>
> ---Explained above, shitheel...Dems don't tend to thump the bible and
> pretend to be moral arbitrators like these Repub hypocrites....and you
> don't mention a word about that hypocricy, do you...you dishonest turd...
>
> The "rules" of behavior only apply to the OTHER
>> guys.
>>
>> IOW, YOU are the hypocrite as well as being a moron.
>
> -----And you just keep on totin that Repub water, asshole....
I am glad you at last did not deny being a hypocrite, Duds cause:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124701436661709153.html
Shuurai
> > Good point... part of the plan needs to involve converting
> > environmentalists into tritium.
>
> Can you imagine how long we could power the US on just Al Gore's mass
> equivalent in energy?
We could power half the galaxy on just Al Gore's mass equivalent in
energy.
> Of course, with our luck, he'd get turned into some kind of giant blue
> omnipotent particle-manipulating superhero or something.
Finally he would have the power to defeat Manbearpig!
Sam the Bam
> > > > >The running joke in the physics community, from before I
> > > > >was an undergrad, is that commercial fusion is "5-10 years out"...
> > > > >no matter when you ask.
>
> > > > Steven Chu, one of the world's brightest bulbs,
> > > > says the same thing, today... and he's in
> > > > a position of some influence...
>
> > >http://climateresearchnews.com/2009/06/mystic-chu-sees-the-future/
>
> > Chu was being sarcastic, in case that wasn't
> > clear. He's well aware of the history of fusion
> > research... and fusion predictions.
>
> > Also, your cited article quotes Frank Tipler...
> > LOL, one of the world's most brilliant kooks.
>
> credible, even (maybe *especially*) from a physicist.
>
>
> http://www.zimbio.com/Steven+Chu/articles/13/Air+Head+Month+Candidate...
>
> I find your use of the work "kook" to describe a Professor of
> Mathematical Physics at Tulane University (Tipler) a gratuitous
> ad hominem attack, considering that his qualifications in climate
> science are just as good as those of Chu.
yeah, and his qualifications in theology are even better!
http://tinyurl.com/tipler-goofy
"For Tipler such an Omega Point means total
omnipresence, the final convergence of space and
time through which a new resurrection... the Person,
who is God. Such a resurrection of past humanity
seems to be in the form of light rays... "
> But once a participant in debate resorts to ad hominem attacks, the
> tenor of the debate hjas been shattered.
It ain't ad hominem, when it's true...
> I will therefore wish you luck in your efforts to progress beyond
> grade-school rhetorical tactics and *plonk* you.
oh no, I won't be able to sleep for weeks!
Sam
Androcles
"Sam the Bam" <samth...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ce39396b-d038-491d...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
http://tinyurl.com/tipler-goofy
Sam
================================
Make that two weeks.
*plonk*
Do not reply to this generic message, it was automatically generated;
you have been kill-filed, either for being boringly stupid, repetitive,
unfunny, ineducable, repeatedly posting politics, religion or off-topic
subjects to a sci. newsgroup, attempting cheapskate free advertising
for profit, because you are a troll, simply insane or any combination
or permutation of the aforementioned reasons; any reply will go unread.
Boringly stupid is the most common cause of kill-filing, but because
this message is generic the other reasons have been included. You are
left to decide which is most applicable to you.
There is no appeal, I have despotic power over whom I will electronically
admit into my home and you do not qualify as a reasonable person I would
wish to converse with or even poke fun at. Some weirdoes are not kill-
filed, they amuse me and I retain them for their entertainment value
as I would any chicken with two heads, either one of which enables the
dumb bird to scratch dirt, step back, look down, step forward to the
same spot and repeat the process eternally.
This should not trouble you, many of those plonked find it a blessing
that they are not required to think and can persist in their bigotry
or crackpot theories without challenge.
You have the right to free speech, I have the right not to listen. The
kill-file will be cleared annually with spring cleaning or whenever I
purchase a new computer or hard drive.
I hope you find this explanation is satisfactory but even if you don't,
damnly my frank, I don't give a dear. Have a nice day.
TravIsGod
> sustainable fusion *must* be a part.
> But fusion is 5-10 years out. Wind is right now. Solar is right now. We
> can do lots with that too.
Who was it around here that was talking about back-envelope costs to
put solar panels on every roof for like what Iraq cost. Oh yeah, me.
We needed some vision and some inflation in the 90s and we'd have the
panels, the windmills, the PBMRs, and the transmission lines to get
all the surplus electricity cracked into H2 which our auto
manufacturers would be using to power super lightweight CF cars with
advanced propulsion technologies. All for around a trillion, maybe
less, maybe more.
Instead we got bonuses for Goldman execs.
Trav
TravIsGod
Repubs
> throw themselves up as paragons of biblical virtue while castigating
> Dems for their affairs....and you give them a pass....you have *never*
> commented on Repub hypocrisy....yet are happy to throw stones at the
> Dems....fucking waterboy....
WHO CARES?
What is MATERIAL hypocrisy is crying about DEBT and then racking up 4x
what your predecessor did!
It is hypocrisy for Chainy to be on TV talking about deficits and the
entire Demofag party to have EVER said ONE WORD about Busch's
deficits!
The problem, however, is not the hypocrisy, it is the fact that they
ALL KEEP DOING THE SAME FUCKING THING and that means MORE DEBT.
Chainy is RIGHT about O'Ruxpin's spending just as the Demofags were
RIGHT about Busch's!
> ----No, douchebag, you are ignoring Repub hypocrisies ...
You need to DEMONSTRATE to me that Ensign or Sanford made any
statements about this shit...who CARES?
And, besides, I HAVE pointed this shit out MANY TIMES. You just
conveniently IGNORED it like you always do, probably because you had a
tranny site up in another window.
> ---Really? Where? With the Spitzer thing I wondered how such a smart guy
> could be so stupid....
Who cares???? I didn't give a shit when it was Spritzer and I don't
care about Sanford!
> ---Explained above, shitheel...Dems don't tend to thump the bible and
> pretend to be moral arbitrators like these Repub hypocrites....and you
> don't mention a word about that hypocricy, do you...you dishonest turd...
I haven't seen many people thumping the fucking bible and to the
extent that they do they are fucking idiots.
I have CALLED OUT the Repugnicon party for MANY of its
insanities...you have to stop watching the tranny sites long enough to
read them.
I do not support the fucking GOP, dude...I am not a CHEERLEADING
hooker like you are!
Trav
Gernot Hassenpflug
And now: WTF?!?
Morgan Stanley Plans to Turn Downgraded Loan CDO Into AAA Bonds
By Pierre Paulden, Caroline Salas and Sarah Mulholland
July 8 (Bloomberg) -- Morgan Stanley plans to repackage a downgraded collateralized debt obligation backed by leveraged loans into new securities with AAA ratings in the first transaction of its kind, said two people familiar with the sale.
Morgan Stanley is selling $87.1 million of securities that it expects to receive top AAA ratings and $42.9 million of notes graded Baa2, the second-lowest investment grade by Moody’s Investors Service, according to marketing documents obtained by Bloomberg News. The bonds were created from Greywolf CLO I Ltd., a CDO arranged in January 2007 by Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and managed by Greywolf Capital Management LP, an investment firm based in Purchase, New York.
Two years after the credit markets began to seize up, costing the world’s biggest financial institutions $1.47 trillion in writedowns and losses, banks are again taking so- called structured finance securities and turning them into new debt investments with top credit ratings. While the Morgan Stanley deal is the first to involve CDOs of loans, banks have been doing the same with commercial mortgage-backed securities in recent weeks.
A lot of banks and insurers “cannot buy anything but AAA,” said Sylvain Raynes, a principal at R&R Consulting in New York and co-author of “Elements of Structured Finance,” which is due to be published in November by Oxford University Press. “You’re manufacturing AAA out of not AAA, therefore allowing those people who have AAA written on their forehead to buy.”
Copying Re-REMICs
New York-based Morgan Stanley is copying a financing structure known as Re-REMICs that bundle mortgage securities into new bonds that often offer investors an additional layer of protection, or collateral, from downgrades. Credit-rating cuts may sometimes force investors to sell the debt and cause financial institutions that own the bonds to increase capital.
Jennifer Sala, a spokeswoman for Morgan Stanley, and Gregory Mount, a Greywolf partner, declined to comment.
Moody’s reduced the $365 million top-ranked portion of Greywolf in June by six levels to A3 from Aaa as the default rate on the loans in the CDO rose to 7 percent. The rating company cut 83 loan CDOs with the top rankings from May 28 through June 26, according to Wachovia Corp.
Raising Capital
Structured finance securities fueled the writedowns and losses at the world’s biggest financial institutions since the start of 2007, helping to plunge the U.S. economy into the worst recession since the 1930s. Finance companies have been forced to raise $1.27 trillion in capital, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
CDOs parcel fixed-income assets such as bonds or loans and slice them into new securities of varying risk intended to provide higher returns than other investments of the same rating. Greywolf is a type of CDO called a collateralized loan obligation, or CLO, which focuses on doing the same with company loans.
Banks are using re-REMICs to protect against losses on residential-mortgage securities during the worst housing slump since the Great Depression.
About $27 billion of home-loan bond Re-REMICs have been issued this year, up from $17 billion for all 2008, according to a June 12 report by Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Re-REMIC stands for “resecuritizations of real estate mortgage investment conduits,” the formal name of mortgage bonds.
‘Make Magic’
The strategy is increasingly being used for commercial mortgage debt. Standard & Poor’s said on June 26 that it may lower the rankings on $235.2 billion of bonds backed by loans on properties such as office buildings and shopping malls.
Banks have issued about $2 billion of the debt in the last three weeks, according to Barclays Capital. That compares with $5.8 billion of similar offerings in all of 2008, Credit Suisse Group data show.
“Somebody does something and it seems to make magic, and the other guy says ‘Hey, let’s do that, too,’” Raynes said.
New York-based Goldman Sachs plans to sell $216.9 million of repackaged commercial mortgage debt, according to people familiar with the sale who declined to be identified because terms aren’t public. The re-REMIC is being carved out of four bonds sold in 2006, said the people. Michael DuVally, a Goldman Sachs spokesman, said he couldn’t comment.
TravIsGod
>
> Morgan Stanley Plans to Turn Downgraded Loan CDO Into AAA Bonds
Yeah, I already saw this article but did not post it here because I
figured nobody cared.
The idiot leftards will just say "Busch did it!!!" and their
counterparts will say "Obama did it!!!!"
Lost cause. I talked about the original shit sandwiches that these
banks made and described how they did it, but nobody was interested.
I know gd well that few understood what a CDO is even after I
explained it in detail. Nobody can be expected to want to learn
anything, especially when it's so esoteric and abstruse.
Now they will repackage this shit with more AIG insurance and spin it
back into AAA from Baa2, which is the lowest possible rating.
Trav