Pros / Cons of Aikido
John
Mike Sigman
"John" <ski_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:366f32f2.03061...@posting.google.com...
> In your opinion, what are the pros/cons of Aikido?
Depends a lot on the Aikido. There was an interview with one of the
founding members of the NE Aikido group under Kanai and others (I don't
remember if it was the New England Aikikai that early on) and he was talking
about how fast and severe the techniques were originally. Ultimately things
became softened and greatly toned down to allow for what most Americans
wanted to do. So what you see and get at various schools may not be
exactly what Aikido really is. You have to shop around. Most American
Aikido tends to be more of an "entry into martial arts" and doesn't
represent a finished, effective product. In my opinion (i.e., take it with
a grain of salt).
Mike
Roger Taylor
>In your opinion, what are the pros/cons of Aikido?
military hand to hand, fitness, flexibility, awareness, etc etc.
Cheers
Roger Taylor
www.hawklan.demon.co.uk/alternativeparty
www.hawklan.demon.co.uk/ki.htm
www.hawklan.demon.co.uk/sales.html
www.2asisters.org/english/
The real attitude of Tony Blair towards terrorism can be seen in his
treatment of the IRA
Larry Stern
Aikido is great for balance, coordination, and all-around health. The down
side (for me) was that I got injured a lot, mainly by getting thrown too
hard by over-enthusiastic students. I finally left after a shoulder
separation.
Also, some will argue that Aikido is not realistic for self-defense. But
that's another thread...
Larry
lst...@twcny.rr.com
www.northernwu.com
---
"John" <ski_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:366f32f2.03061...@posting.google.com...
Grappler240
>that's another thread...
>
>Larry
and tai chi is????
G240
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
"You can carve it on a bowling pin and cram it,for all I care."
-Gichoke
Ben Holmes
wrote:
>>Also, some will argue that Aikido is not realistic for self-defense. But
>>that's another thread...
>>
>>Larry
>
>and tai chi is????
Of course! Take a look here if you're skeptical:
http://www.ilram.com/M_taichimasters_temp.html
kalis
> >Also, some will argue that Aikido is not realistic for self-defense. But
> >that's another thread...
> >
> >Larry
>
> and tai chi is????
>
Well you do remember the first Lethal Weapon movie where they said Mel
Gibson did "tai chi, and all that killing stuff"
Mike
Mario
Ben Holmes wrote:
> On 14 Jun 2003 20:19:50 GMT, grapp...@aol.comnojunk (Grappler240)
> wrote:
>
>
>>>Also, some will argue that Aikido is not realistic for self-defense. But
>>>that's another thread...
>>>
>>>Larry
>>
>>and tai chi is????
>
>
> Of course! Take a look here if you're skeptical:
>
> http://www.ilram.com/M_taichimasters_temp.html
now, now, Ben, i can see that your having a little chuckle and maybe
even at Mikes expense ! but let's don't get too carried away! ;-)))
while it's true, that this tai chi thing is not being represented well
for the time being.
let's not confuse tai chi chuan, with aikido or wing chin or dragon fu!~
M.
Ben Holmes
>Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On 14 Jun 2003 20:19:50 GMT, grapp...@aol.comnojunk (Grappler240)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>Also, some will argue that Aikido is not realistic for self-defense. But
>>>>that's another thread...
>>>>
>>>>Larry
>>>
>>>and tai chi is????
>>
>> Of course! Take a look here if you're skeptical:
>>
>> http://www.ilram.com/M_taichimasters_temp.html
>
>now, now, Ben, i can see that your having a little chuckle and maybe
>even at Mikes expense ! but let's don't get too carried away! ;-)))
Gotta admit, that was a really wonderfully done site!!
I'm thinking that we need to do it for Judo too... I can see it now...
Haraigoshi being done in slow motion... after all, since Mike asserts
that Judo is derived from a Chinese source, perhaps it was Tai Chi
rather than Shuai Chiao! And Kano made the mistake of speeding
everything up! :)
>while it's true, that this tai chi thing is not being represented well
>for the time being.
I hope you'll be satisfied in knowing, that despite Mike Sigman's
descriptions of Robert Smith - I *still* believe Robert Smith's
impressions and thoughts on the matter. I think Robert Smith is
*highly* credible, and I will, in general, believe what he says.
You're right, however... that Tai Chi is - due to Mike Sigman - not
very well represented right now...
Mario
Ben, just like you
I think it's a good thing to poke fun at ourselves every now and then! ;-)
>
> You're right, however... that Tai Chi is - due to Mike Sigman - not
> very well represented right now...
yeah i tend to think that Mike as not done a good job either
why? who knows?
maybe mike was just not that interested in the practice/practical side
of tai chi chuan and only mostly interested in the theory/book
knowledge side
M.
Steven Poole
> >
> > You're right, however... that Tai Chi is - due to Mike Sigman - not
> > very well represented right now...
>
> yeah i tend to think that Mike as not done a good job either
> why? who knows?
> maybe mike was just not that interested in the practice/practical side
> of tai chi chuan and only mostly interested in the theory/book
> knowledge side
I guess it depends whether you think "represents" means "kisses ass and
tries to impress people on newsgroups", or "helps people to understand
taiji better". For my part, if I hadn't seen Mike at a seminar and
subsequently corresponded with him, I would probably still be doing
empty Beijing stuff instead of having made the effort to find and study
regularly with a good teacher. I therefore think he represents taiji
rather well.
Cheers,
Steven
Mario
hello Steven,
i'm happy that he was is someway a positive influence to you!
and it can even be said that if he was able to help just one, it's more
then anyone can hope for.
but we are not talking about you , we are talking Mike as a whole.
and I don't believe that they are positive.
he had in his days a chance to do more good then harm , and i don't
believe that he took advantage of that!
in the end he ended up being no different then the same folk whom he was
rebelling against.
he replaced one set of "masters" for others! .
but that don't mean that he's all bad!!!! :-)))
M.
Steven Poole
wrote:
>
> hello Steven,
>
> i'm happy that he was is someway a positive influence to you!
> and it can even be said that if he was able to help just one, it's more
> then anyone can hope for.
> but we are not talking about you , we are talking Mike as a whole.
> and I don't believe that they are positive.
> he had in his days a chance to do more good then harm , and i don't
> believe that he took advantage of that!
>
> in the end he ended up being no different then the same folk whom he was
> rebelling against.
> he replaced one set of "masters" for others! .
> but that don't mean that he's all bad!!!! :-)))
>
>
> M.
>
Hi Mario,
Well, I don't really know what you're alluding to, and I don't much care
to dig any further. ;-) I just wanted to volunteer the information that
he has been a help to me and to others I know personally. It can be very
hard to know what to look for otherwise.
But people can take or leave Mike's advice as they see fit, anyway. I've
never seen him refer to himself as a "master" of anything, or even as a
"representative" of taiji.
Cheers,
Steven
Mike Sigman
"Mario" <mn...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3EECFB9D...@netscape.net...
>
> but we are not talking about you , we are talking Mike as a whole.
Really? Mario, do you know the "whole" me? Or are you just talking? I
didn't think you knew much about me at all.
> and I don't believe that they are positive.
> he had in his days a chance to do more good then harm , and i don't
> believe that he took advantage of that!
I think it's positive. I recommend that people go see bona fide and
well-recognized members of the Taiji community. You tell people that Taiji
is Judo and that YOU have made modifications to Taiji that are good. :^)
>
> in the end he ended up being no different then the same folk whom he was
> rebelling against.
> he replaced one set of "masters" for others! .
> but that don't mean that he's all bad!!!! :-)))
Do you mean that because I recommend people to go see Yang Zhen Duo, Chen
Xiao Wang, and Wang Pei Sheng (it's on record that I have done these
things), it is the same as telling people that Cheng Man Ching was really
good and that Taiji is really the same as Judo? And BTW, even though you
now say "Judo and Taiji have the same principles" I have it on record that
you have said "judo and Taiji are the same thing". How am I replacing
"one set of master for the others"? Do you mean that Cheng Man Ching was
the best, but by recommending that people go see the world-recognized best,
it is only a small change that has no real effect? I don't understand.
Mike
Mario
Steven Poole wrote:
> In article <3EECFB9D...@netscape.net>, Mario <mn...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
>>hello Steven,
>>
>>i'm happy that he was is someway a positive influence to you!
>>and it can even be said that if he was able to help just one, it's more
>>then anyone can hope for.
>>but we are not talking about you , we are talking Mike as a whole.
>>and I don't believe that they are positive.
>>he had in his days a chance to do more good then harm , and i don't
>>believe that he took advantage of that!
>>
>>in the end he ended up being no different then the same folk whom he was
>>rebelling against.
>>he replaced one set of "masters" for others! .
>>but that don't mean that he's all bad!!!! :-)))
>>
>>
>>M.
>>
>
>
>
> Hi Mario,
> Well, <snip>I just wanted to volunteer the information that
> he has been a help to me.
okie dokey... Steven, we'll put you on the side of, happy with mike
column...
> But people can take or leave Mike's advice as they see fit,
they will steven , they will.....
ciao
M.
>
> Cheers,
> Steven
Mario
Mike Sigman wrote:
> "Mario" <mn...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:3EECFB9D...@netscape.net...
>
>
>>but we are not talking about you , we are talking Mike as a whole.
>
>
> Really? Mario, do you know the "whole" me? Or are you just talking? I
> didn't think you knew much about me at all.
now now, mIke don't play with words, let us just say that we are
talking about your tai chi career! :-)
>
>
>
>>and I don't believe that they are positive.
>>he had in his days a chance to do more good then harm , and i don't
>>believe that he took advantage of that!
>
>
> I think it's positive. I recommend that people go see bona fide and
> well-recognized members of the Taiji community.
it's good that you put forth you good qualities mike, after all it a
normal thing to do!!!
and when you forget you not so good qualities, ifand when i can, i will
remind you of them , so you can the fix them as best you can!
> You tell people that Taiji
> is Judo and that YOU have made modifications to Taiji that are good. :^)
>
like this one mike this is a called a lie.. a no... no... in certain
circle...:-))
>
>>in the end he ended up being no different then the same folk whom he was
>>rebelling against.
>>he replaced one set of "masters" for others! .
>>but that don't mean that he's all bad!!!! :-)))
>
>
> Do you mean that because I recommend people to go see Yang Zhen Duo, Chen
> Xiao Wang, and Wang Pei Sheng (it's on record that I have done these
> things),
like i said Mike, you have also done some not so nice and even mean
spirited things.. all one has to do is read Rma the neijia list and many
more other places you tend to lie and make things up you cannot back
many things that you say.. in other words you have much work top do
before you say that you have done well! just take this as a friendly
advice!
> it is the same as telling people that Cheng Man Ching was really
> good and that Taiji is really the same as Judo?
I have never had the interest to say who's good or not Mike that your
M.O. with you and other i have always tried and ask for proof of you
chatter.. but to this day i have seen very little proof of your negative
sayings!
and as far as judo or boxing being the same principle wise . please do
not blame the massager if you do not understand the message . one body
and only one why it works correctly!
> And BTW, even though you
> now say "Judo and Taiji have the same principles" I have it on record that
> you have said "judo and Taiji are the same thing".
read above mike cause if you have what you say you have you will also
have my explanations too!! anyone can just look them up at RMA.
> How am I replacing
> "one set of master for the others"?
by claming that some folk are /were no good and how people yada yada
yada.. and the tell folk about you obsession with Chen style and how
these folk are world renowned tai chi masters.. :-)) i even asked you a
simple question how are they world renowned who renonsd them? i think
you said that they one some push hands hand competition..:-)))
> Do you mean that Cheng Man Ching was
> the best, but by recommending that people go see the world-recognized best,
> it is only a small change that has no real effect? I don't understand.
just like this MIke, you always try and suggest that i say/said
anything! when your doing all the talking and inventing!! you will never
find anywhere me selling any tai chi guy!!!
I like them all i like Judo BJJ wrestling Boxing Moy thai and yes when
done correctly, it's all the same!
>
> Mike
>
>
Mike Sigman
>
>
> Mike Sigman wrote:
> > "Mario" <mn...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:3EECFB9D...@netscape.net...
> >
> >
> >>but we are not talking about you , we are talking Mike as a whole.
> >
> >
> > Really? Mario, do you know the "whole" me? Or are you just talking?
I
> > didn't think you knew much about me at all.
>
> now now, mIke don't play with words, let us just say that we are
> talking about your tai chi career! :-)
But you don't know my Taiji career. All you know is that you don't like
what I do because it interferes with you being a "hero". :^))) Yet,
instead of bothering with me, you refuse to go see some of the best Taiji
people in the world..... why not just do that instead of arguing with
me????????? :^) Go tell Chen Zheng Lei that he doesn't know what he's
talking about if he says you don't do Taiji.... why bother with
me???????????????
>
> > You tell people that Taiji
> > is Judo and that YOU have made modifications to Taiji that are good.
:^)
> >
>
>
> like this one mike this is a called a lie.. a no... no... in certain
> circle...:-))
Well, I can quote you from about a week ago how you have done positive
things for what you call "push hands". Do you want me to quote?
>
> >
> >>in the end he ended up being no different then the same folk whom he was
> >>rebelling against.
> >>he replaced one set of "masters" for others! .
> >>but that don't mean that he's all bad!!!! :-)))
> >
> >
> > Do you mean that because I recommend people to go see Yang Zhen Duo,
Chen
> > Xiao Wang, and Wang Pei Sheng (it's on record that I have done these
> > things),
>
> like i said Mike, you have also done some not so nice and even mean
> spirited things.. all one has to do is read Rma the neijia list and many
> more other places you tend to lie and make things up you cannot back
> many things that you say.. in other words you have much work top do
> before you say that you have done well! just take this as a friendly
> advice!
Mario.... I have asked you several times now to post where I said a lie.
You have not done so yet. If you can't do it, why do you continue to say
that I lie??? I don't say that you lie, even when you are caught in a lie
about Cheng Man Ching, but you seem to want to call me names. Why is that?
>
>
> > it is the same as telling people that Cheng Man Ching was really
> > good and that Taiji is really the same as Judo?
>
> I have never had the interest to say who's good or not Mike that your
> M.O. with you and other i have always tried and ask for proof of you
> chatter.. but to this day i have seen very little proof of your negative
> sayings!
>
> and as far as judo or boxing being the same principle wise . please do
> not blame the massager if you do not understand the message . one body
> and only one why it works correctly!
So, if John Carlo beats you up, he does Judo and Taiji better than you????
If Bill Mahoney (Gichoke) beats you up, you will say that it is "the same
principles" and "his Taiji is better than yours"????? I think he will
laugh at you for being an idiot.
>
> > How am I replacing
> > "one set of master for the others"?
>
> by claming that some folk are /were no good and how people yada yada
> yada..
OK.... show me where I said someone was "no good".
>and the tell folk about you obsession with Chen style
OK... show me where I have ever said "Chen style is best" or similar words.
> and how
> these folk are world renowned tai chi masters.. :-)) i even asked you a
> simple question how are they world renowned who renonsd them? i think
> you said that they one some push hands hand competition..:-)))
Well, Mario, you are like Ben Holmes... whenever I give you a straight
answer you try to belittle that answer. So I won't answer you. If you want
to say "no one is good in this world", then that is up to you and I accept
your philosophy. :^)
>
>
>
> > Do you mean that Cheng Man Ching was
> > the best, but by recommending that people go see the world-recognized
best,
> > it is only a small change that has no real effect? I don't understand.
>
>
> just like this MIke, you always try and suggest that i say/said
> anything! when your doing all the talking and inventing!! you will never
> find anywhere me selling any tai chi guy!!!
> I like them all i like Judo BJJ wrestling Boxing Moy thai and yes when
> done correctly, it's all the same!
Well, then there is no reason to practice different training methods. Judo
is the same as karate and Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai, and Samoan wrestling
and boxing, if what you are saying is true.
Regards,
Mike
Mike Sigman
>
>
> Mike Sigman wrote:
> > "Mario" <mn...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:3EECFB9D...@netscape.net...
> >
> >
> >>but we are not talking about you , we are talking Mike as a whole.
> >
> >
> > Really? Mario, do you know the "whole" me? Or are you just talking?
I
> > didn't think you knew much about me at all.
>
> now now, mIke don't play with words, let us just say that we are
> talking about your tai chi career! :-)
Well, if you are just talking about my "whole tai chi career" then it is not
ME who is playing with words, it is YOU. YOU just said "Mike as a whole",
so in order to not look like a lying idiot, you need to recognize that it
was your mistake and not blame me because you misspoke. You keep trying to
change all the threads to how bad of a person I am or how little I know,
etc., etc. But it is not me bragging about how great I am, Mario. Guess
who it is?
If you will look back at these recent threads, I think you will see that
there is one common thread.... I am arguing with a group of people who all
think that they are experts. NONE of them admit that they ever make
mistakes and ALL of them are angry because I have publicly said they are not
really "experts". That is the secret of making people angry, Mario....
tell them that they are not as great as they think they are or as great as
they want people to think they are. It works every time. Every long
thread I have ever been in, in which I am constantly personally attacked, is
because I have accused some people of not being as "qualified" or as
"expert" as they want other people to believe.
All you have to do is go back and read. When you understand that I know
the secret of getting people to attack me with words, you will know why so
many people get laughed at because I can get their goat. No one except me,
in all of these threads, has ever admitted that they are an amateur.
Mike
Mario
Mike Sigman wrote:
> "Mario" <mn...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:3EED0E7...@netscape.net...
>
>>
>>Mike Sigman wrote:
>>
>>>"Mario" <mn...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>news:3EECFB9D...@netscape.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>but we are not talking about you , we are talking Mike as a whole.
>>>
>>>
>>>Really? Mario, do you know the "whole" me? Or are you just talking?
>>
> I
>
>>>didn't think you knew much about me at all.
>>
>>now now, mIke don't play with words, let us just say that we are
>>talking about your tai chi career! :-)
>
>
> But you don't know my Taiji career. All you know is that you don't like
> what I do because it interferes with you being a "hero". :^)))
once a gain we have mike on the attack , not discussion the issues but
diverting them and then goes the whole marry-go-round game begins
again..:-))
Yet,
> instead of bothering with me, you refuse to go see some of the best Taiji
> people in the world..... why not just do that instead of arguing with
> me????????? :^)
who's arguing , i think your the one who arguing that people out side of
your mind! are telling you things you don't ant to hear! . it was a a
friendly advice , but hey your happy being a flake im ok with it!
Go tell Chen Zheng Lei that he doesn't know what he's
> talking about if he says you don't do Taiji.... why bother with
> me???????????????
>
>
>
>>>You tell people that Taiji
>>>is Judo and that YOU have made modifications to Taiji that are good.
>>
> :^)
>
>>
>>like this one mike this is a called a lie.. a no... no... in certain
>>circle...:-))
>
>
> Well, I can quote you from about a week ago how you have done positive
> things for what you call "push hands". Do you want me to quote?
yes positive ! what i have done is open up the game ..how does open up
get attacked by you as changed!! also i have you now , that what i do is
very similar to what the CHen folk do! they sweep i sweep they throw i
throw and so on.. what i do in my game is open it still more.. but now
you say Change as in I Me Mario are changing things. Mike I will tell
you this There's nothing new under the sun!! so i can change nothing!!!
:-)))
>
>
>
>
> Mario.... I have asked you several times now to post where I said a lie.
> You have not done so yet.
we can start with so much id really hate to do it mike .. i tell you
what we can ask folk to read these threads of yours and then see if they
end up agreeing with me or you! about you penchant for the lie and the
make things up as the game goes on...
> If you can't do it, why do you continue to say
> that I lie??? I don't say that you lie, even when you are caught in a lie
> about Cheng Man Ching, but you seem to want to call me names. Why is that?
just observation MIke , Mike your a celebrity so as a celebrity people
will judge you by your action.. or lack of..
>
>
>
>>
>>>it is the same as telling people that Cheng Man Ching was really
>>>good and that Taiji is really the same as Judo?
>>
>>I have never had the interest to say who's good or not Mike that your
>>M.O. with you and other i have always tried and ask for proof of you
>>chatter.. but to this day i have seen very little proof of your negative
>>sayings!
>>
>>and as far as judo or boxing being the same principle wise . please do
>>not blame the massager if you do not understand the message . one body
>>and only one why it works correctly!
see what i mean Mike you don't answer the question.. but never mind
that!! let's move on...
>
>
> So, if John Carlo beats you up, he does Judo and Taiji better than you????
> If Bill Mahoney (Gichoke) beats you up, you will say that it is "the same
> principles" and "his Taiji is better than yours"????? I think he will
> laugh at you for being an idiot.
Mike the laugh is on you.. cause if these nice friendly folk beat me it
obvious that the use their body better then me.. and yes Mickey strength
is also better usage of body!!
>
>
>
>
>> > How am I replacing
>>
>>>"one set of master for the others"?
>>
>>by claming that some folk are /were no good and how people yada yada
>>yada..
>
>
> OK.... show me where I said someone was "no good".
easy read your own post sometimes , lets try with the most resent once! ;-))
>
>
>>and the tell folk about you obsession with Chen style
>
>
> OK... show me where I have ever said "Chen style is best" or similar words.
>
I used the word obsession . am i wrong in this let folk read the neijia
list and see what a belly laugh they will get! you are obsessed . it's
not so bad! i have not called you a murderer! :-))
>
>>and how
>>these folk are world renowned tai chi masters.. :-)) i even asked you a
>>simple question how are they world renowned who renonsd them? i think
>>you said that they one some push hands hand competition..:-)))
>
>
> Well, Mario, you are like Ben Holmes... whenever I give you a straight
> answer you try to belittle that answer.
you have not ever given me nor Ben any straight answers.
and we are all trying to tell you about it!! don't listen if you don't
want to.. it's your game!!
>
>
>>
>>
>>> Do you mean that Cheng Man Ching was
>>>the best, but by recommending that people go see the world-recognized
>>
> best,
>
>>>it is only a small change that has no real effect? I don't understand.
>>
>>
>>just like this MIke, you always try and suggest that i say/said
>>anything! when your doing all the talking and inventing!! you will never
>>find anywhere me selling any tai chi guy!!!
>>I like them all i like Judo BJJ wrestling Boxing Moy thai and yes when
>>done correctly, it's all the same!
>
>
> Well, then there is no reason to practice different training methods. Judo
> is the same as karate and Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai, and Samoan wrestling
> and boxing, if what you are saying is true.
Mike grow up! there no reason to change the same type of food that we
eat but we do variety is the spice of life! and if some enjoy ground and
pound or throws or punches or a mix of the above , why are you having
problems with this?
ciao bello!
leaving magnana!
so wont be able to play as much for a while..
M.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
>
Mike Sigman
>
> >>>
> >>>>but we are not talking about you , we are talking Mike as a whole.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Really? Mario, do you know the "whole" me? Or are you just talking?
> >>
> > I
> >
> >>>didn't think you knew much about me at all.
> >>
> >>now now, mIke don't play with words, let us just say that we are
> >>talking about your tai chi career! :-)
> >
> >
> > But you don't know my Taiji career. All you know is that you don't like
> > what I do because it interferes with you being a "hero". :^)))
>
> once a gain we have mike on the attack , not discussion the issues but
> diverting them and then goes the whole marry-go-round game begins
> again..:-))
Mario.... I think all you have to do is go back 2 or 3 posts and you will
find where Mario is attacking Mike, when nothing important has been said.
In other words, I did not attack you.... you attacked me. Now you are
complaining because it is coming back to you. I have seen emails from the
TCC list where you spend a great amount of time attacking me, but I am not
even there. :^)
>
> Go tell Chen Zheng Lei that he doesn't know what he's
> > talking about if he says you don't do Taiji.... why bother with
> > me???????????????
> >
Well????
> >
> >
> >>>You tell people that Taiji
> >>>is Judo and that YOU have made modifications to Taiji that are good.
> >>
> > :^)
> >
> >>
> >>like this one mike this is a called a lie.. a no... no... in certain
> >>circle...:-))
OK, but below you say you did it. What is it? A lie or you did it????
> >
> >
> > Well, I can quote you from about a week ago how you have done positive
> > things for what you call "push hands". Do you want me to quote?
>
> yes positive ! what i have done is open up the game ..how does open up
> get attacked by you as changed!! also i have you now , that what i do is
> very similar to what the CHen folk do! they sweep i sweep they throw i
> throw and so on.. what i do in my game is open it still more.. but now
> you say Change as in I Me Mario are changing things. Mike I will tell
> you this There's nothing new under the sun!! so i can change nothing!!!
> :-)))
How do you know when you do not really do Taiji with an good Chen people???
How do you know that what you are doing is good Taiji?
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mario.... I have asked you several times now to post where I said a lie.
> > You have not done so yet.
>
> we can start with so much id really hate to do it mike .. i tell you
> what we can ask folk to read these threads of yours and then see if they
> end up agreeing with me or you! about you penchant for the lie and the
> make things up as the game goes on...
Sigh. Once again you do not answer me, Mario. It is like saying I am a
bastard and when I ask you for proof you say that you can find other people
that think I am a bastard. :^))))
>
>
>
> > If you can't do it, why do you continue to say
> > that I lie??? I don't say that you lie, even when you are caught in a
lie
> > about Cheng Man Ching, but you seem to want to call me names. Why is
that?
>
> just observation MIke , Mike your a celebrity so as a celebrity people
> will judge you by your action.. or lack of..
But I am no celebrity, except maybe in your mind, Mario. I do not even have
a school. I do not tell people the tournaments I used to win or the people
I beat, etc. I am interested in some basic matters, Mario, and that is all
I ever claimed. I never claimed that I felt Cheng Man Ching was there with
me. :^)))
> >
> > So, if John Carlo beats you up, he does Judo and Taiji better than
you????
> > If Bill Mahoney (Gichoke) beats you up, you will say that it is "the
same
> > principles" and "his Taiji is better than yours"????? I think he will
> > laugh at you for being an idiot.
>
>
> Mike the laugh is on you.. cause if these nice friendly folk beat me it
> obvious that the use their body better then me.. and yes Mickey strength
> is also better usage of body!!
That is not the question, Mario. The question is... is Taiji the same thing
as MMA fighting.
> >
> > OK.... show me where I said someone was "no good".
>
> easy read your own post sometimes , lets try with the most resent once!
;-))
>
Show me. Give us the quote.
> >
> >
> >>and the tell folk about you obsession with Chen style
> >
> >
> > OK... show me where I have ever said "Chen style is best" or similar
words.
> >
>
> I used the word obsession . am i wrong in this let folk read the neijia
> list and see what a belly laugh they will get! you are obsessed . it's
> not so bad! i have not called you a murderer! :-))
>
Show me the quote! :^)
> >
> > Well, then there is no reason to practice different training methods.
Judo
> > is the same as karate and Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai, and Samoan
wrestling
> > and boxing, if what you are saying is true.
>
>
> Mike grow up! there no reason to change the same type of food that we
> eat but we do variety is the spice of life! and if some enjoy ground and
> pound or throws or punches or a mix of the above , why are you having
> problems with this?
>
> ciao bello!
> leaving magnana!
> so wont be able to play as much for a while..
Have a good trip.
Mike
Mario
Mike Sigman wrote:
>>
>>now now, mIke don't play with words, let us just say that we are
>>talking about your tai chi career! :-)
>
>
> Well, if you are just talking about my "whole tai chi career" then it is not
> ME who is playing with words, it is YOU. YOU just said "Mike as a whole",
> so in order to not look like a lying idiot, you need to recognize that it
> was your mistake and not blame me because you misspoke.
Michele , no problem bello, I misspoke and meant to say mike the tai chi
figure we all come to know and love! :-)) see Mike not hard! .. if you
tried this in the last weeks i'm sure that these threads of your would
have not turned out as Fucked up as they have!! so sorry Mike I misspoke!.
> You keep trying to
> change all the threads to how bad of a person I am or how little I know,
> etc., etc.
that's noT what i have said , i said , that you have not done as well
as you could have!! healthy criticism..
> But it is not me bragging about how great I am, Mario. Guess
> who it is?
i'm just a fellow who has had some experience with you and the way you
communicate . and being that this is where you play i came and lay too..
so i say what i feel! as nicely as i can.. and feel free to correct me
anytime . but remember mike correcting does not mean change the subject!!!
>
> If you will look back at these recent threads, I think you will see that
> there is one common thread.... I am arguing with a group of people who all
> think that they are experts. NONE of them admit that they ever make
> mistakes and ALL of them are angry because I have publicly said they are not
> really "experts".
O.K. how do you know that they are not well versed in their filed!
and if your so sure that they are not! that means two things, you know
more judo then they do! you have not shown this!
so! you just like to argue regardless weather you know anything deep
about the subject
i feel you have not played this type of game..
also,
beside calling everybody every name in the book where have you shown
them where they are wrong? no mike, you can be very stubborn and over a
little thing you go berserk!! you had very little to say. you have
wasted a lot of people time .. even if you have entertained us a bit!
your lack of providing well though out information as lead many here to
say hey wait a minute. if mike is this crazy about these thing he may be
just as crazy about his tai chi theory too!
and who can blame them!!
> That is the secret of making people angry, Mario....
> tell them that they are not as great as they think they are or as great as
> they want people to think they are. It works every time.
i see it's working here with you! :-))
> thread I have ever been in, in which I am constantly personally attacked, is
> because I have accused some people of not being as "qualified" or as
> "expert" as they want other people to believe.
Mike, you are not qualified yourself ! in shua jia or in judo your
qualification a minor at best!!
in saying that some white folk who have made some effort about China and
japan ties you simple have dismissed them and called them fools and
such.. you have picked on dragger (sp?), and comp.. with impunity!! so i
say to you MIke where are your qualifications!! in Japanese in Chinese
languages old or new ..
>
> All you have to do is go back and read. When you understand that I know
> the secret of getting people to attack me with words, you will know why so
> many people get laughed at because I can get their goat. No one except me,
> in all of these threads, has ever admitted that they are an amateur.
no Mike what you admit and what you say is *always* two different thing!
getting people goat up the way i used to do with you is fun!! i totally
agree. i'm still doing it it a bit with you, my new found gentler side!
but you have gone berserk with attacking folk who are not here!! and who
have done their best! but you belittle their effort! and I still think
you own Ben an apology!
KId him yeah!!
treat him the way you have done! No!!
only that brown nose low life piss of shit! MarkG. deserve this!! :-))
ciao bello and i am going to miss you !!
but i will from time to tim check up on you!!
M.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
Mike Sigman
>
>
> >
> > Well, if you are just talking about my "whole tai chi career" then it is
not
> > ME who is playing with words, it is YOU. YOU just said "Mike as a
whole",
> > so in order to not look like a lying idiot, you need to recognize that
it
> > was your mistake and not blame me because you misspoke.
>
>
> Michele , no problem bello, I misspoke and meant to say mike the tai chi
> figure we all come to know and love! :-)) see Mike not hard! .. if you
> tried this in the last weeks i'm sure that these threads of your would
> have not turned out as Fucked up as they have!! so sorry Mike I misspoke!.
>
Well, apparently it is harder than you think to do this, since it took you 2
tries. First you tried to say it was ME playing with words, when actually
it was you... but the record was right in front of you, Mario. :^) You
cannot say "it is easy to admit a mistake" when it was not so easy to do so.
>
>
> > You keep trying to
> > change all the threads to how bad of a person I am or how little I know,
> > etc., etc.
>
>
> that's noT what i have said , i said , that you have not done as well
> as you could have!! healthy criticism..
Well, I keep asking you for quotes where 1.) I have lied, 2.) where I have
said so-and-so was no good, and 3.) where I have said Chen style is best,
etc., etc., etc., Mario..... and you never provide me with this quotes, but
now you are calling it "Healthy Criticism"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am astounded.
I did not understand English as well as I thought I did. :^)
> >
> > If you will look back at these recent threads, I think you will see that
> > there is one common thread.... I am arguing with a group of people who
all
> > think that they are experts. NONE of them admit that they ever make
> > mistakes and ALL of them are angry because I have publicly said they are
not
> > really "experts".
>
>
> O.K. how do you know that they are not well versed in their filed!
Mario.... that is not what I said. Look at what I said. I said "I am
arguing with a group of people who all
think that they are experts." I did not say "they are not experts", etc.
I am talking about their egos, because they have all talked about their
"qualifications", how expert that are in "judo", about their knowledge of
"physics", etc., etc. In other words, the important thing is to them is
how important they are and how they will defend how important they are.
Anyone who disagrees that they are important will immediately be attacked.
That is very true in the Taiji community, also, Mario. If someone thinks
they are important and someone else says they are not, there will be an
attack. I was sent some emails of a certain "tournament winner" who
attacked his fellow CMC stylists immediately if they indicated they did not
think this fellow did good Taiji. So they quit posting. That is a sad
state of affairs. :^)
> and if your so sure that they are not! that means two things, you know
> more judo then they do! you have not shown this!
> so! you just like to argue regardless weather you know anything deep
> about the subject
> i feel you have not played this type of game..
I feel you have missed the subject and tried to change it. :^) Go back
and look at the original statement.
>
>
> also,
> beside calling everybody every name in the book where have you shown
> them where they are wrong? no mike, you can be very stubborn and over a
> little thing you go berserk!! you had very little to say. you have
> wasted a lot of people time .. even if you have entertained us a bit!
> your lack of providing well though out information as lead many here to
> say hey wait a minute. if mike is this crazy about these thing he may be
> just as crazy about his tai chi theory too!
> and who can blame them!!
See, Mario, you changed the discussion to an attack on me. Read how you
did it. It is the way you so often do it.
If I said so little, then would you agree that ukemi is about dissipating
force over area????? Would you agree that I am the only person who says
that Chen Gempin originated the "ju" techniques in Japan? Answer those 2
simple questions, since I never showed anyone they were wrong.
>
> > thread I have ever been in, in which I am constantly personally
attacked, is
> > because I have accused some people of not being as "qualified" or as
> > "expert" as they want other people to believe.
>
>
> Mike, you are not qualified yourself ! in shua jia or in judo your
> qualification a minor at best!!
Where did I ever try to tell someone about the importance of my
qualifications? Instead, go back and look at how many people... who don't
even know me, including you...... tried to tell me how qualified they were
and how unqualified I was. I'm sorry, Mario.... but this time you cannot
get out so easily. This discussion is about how arguments like this are
almost always about people trying to defend how important they are and they
do so by immediately trying to personally attack me. Would you like to see
some of your posts about me and my "qualifications" that you did in these
threads?
> in saying that some white folk who have made some effort about China and
> japan ties you simple have dismissed them and called them fools and
> such.. you have picked on dragger (sp?), and comp.. with impunity!! so i
> say to you MIke where are your qualifications!! in Japanese in Chinese
> languages old or new ..
It's not the subject, Mario. Why are you again trying to make this a
discussion about me????? If you have something to add to the subject, add
it. But try to do it without making me the subject and without accusing me
of things that you cannot substantiate.
>
> getting people goat up the way i used to do with you is fun!! i totally
> agree. i'm still doing it it a bit with you, my new found gentler side!
> but you have gone berserk with attacking folk who are not here!! and who
> have done their best! but you belittle their effort! and I still think
> you own Ben an apology!
> KId him yeah!!
> treat him the way you have done! No!!
> only that brown nose low life piss of shit! MarkG. deserve this!! :-))
Well I am beginning to worry about you, Mario. It seems that everyone who
disagrees with you is a liar of a "piece of shit". :^) Mark G. is
those things. Tony Wong is those things. Chen Zheng Lei is those things.
Etc., etc. Maybe instead of worrying about who is saying things you don't
like... maybe you should go visit Wang Hai Jun and correct him on his Taiji.
:^)
>
> ciao bello and i am going to miss you !!
> but i will from time to tim check up on you!!
If you need me to post something quickly to the internet, just email me.
Internet Cafe's are a drag.
Mike
Kirk Lawson
>
> In your opinion, what are the pros/cons of Aikido?
Depends on the style.
In general, I'd say that Unrealistic Training and/or lack of sparring is
the greatest hindrance in most Aikido training. But that's fixable.
The greatest benefit is teaching "body feel." It's kinda the ability to
read an opponent, and then flow with or negate this attack, through how
his body looks and feels at a given time; posture, tension, etc. BJJ
and Judo guys to it too though they don't often tell you that they're
doing it. Some of them don't know themselves. <shrug>
Peace favor your sword (IH)
--
"In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or
knowledge of their use."
-Achille Marozzo, 1536
--
"...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial
artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise."
-Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts
Grappler240
hee hee hee....i definately KNOW *myself*....hee hee hee....sometimes....i
can't get enough of me....i am ALL OVER myself....
g240
Roger Taylor
>hee hee hee....i definately KNOW *myself*
No you don't - that's you over there - look . . .
Paul Ross
i have a personal philosophy that seems to work <at least for me>. watch
what other people do. if it looks good steal it. modify it if i must to
suit me and use it. if i can't make it work for me ignore it for now.
maybe i missed something. if so i'll come back to it later when i learn
more. i ordered mike's tapes and learned a little from them. not because
mike recommended them, but because i saw something valuable there. <btw,
mike didn't recommend them. he actually said something along the lines of
"i see flaws in them that could mislead". not a quote, but what i read as
the message> one of these days i'd like to find a way to train with mike
even if only for a minute. you learn much more by doing and experiencing.
and that is my philosophy. do it. this ng is great on talk and arguing.
i'd like to train with a bunch of folks here if for no other reason than to
see if they are full of shit or the real deal. bill mahoney would be fun i
think mike would. hal on the other hand i don't even want to see or hear.
there's a bunch of martial artists here who think they are the best thing to
come down the pike. talk is cheap. your life and what you do with it is
the proof, not your words here. a lot of folks think aikido sucks. i
watched it and thought to myself, "that looks fake. i could kick their
ass." so i got on the mats and trained. after i'd trained for a few years
<just so i would learn what i could before i shit in the tub> i attacked my
instructor. he didn't even slow down. he took me to the ground and locked
me up so fast that i had no idea what he'd done. so i stayed and trained
more.
long tirade with a short point. talk is cheap. i'll quit talking now.
--
Paul Ross
Ross Aikido
pr...@volcano.net
www.angelfire.com/ca/Aikido/
571 South Hwy 49
Jackson, CA 95642
(209) 223-4400 dojo
(209) 295-4365 home
BillMahoney68
Con-it doesnt work.
Todd Christensen
[snip]
> a lot of folks think aikido sucks. i
> watched it and thought to myself, "that looks fake. i could kick their
> ass." so i got on the mats and trained. after i'd trained for a few years
> <just so i would learn what i could before i shit in the tub
> i attacked my
> instructor. he didn't even slow down. he took me to the ground and
> locked
> me up so fast that i had no idea what he'd done. so i stayed and trained
> more.
Wait. Wait. Back up there, partner.
You thought something looked fake... and you trained it ANYWAY?
Not sure I follow that reasoning.
Anyway, you say a couple years go by, one day you attacked your
instructor, and he kicks your ass? Right?
You mean you attacked the dude like Kato isneaks up on Inspector
Clouseau in the Pink Panther movies? Or in the Dojo?
That doen't seem very... er, sporting. (I'm surprised your instructor
would retain you after that.)
I assume you did this then during regular Randori and NOT by leaping
down on him from a hole you sawed around his light fixture over his
bed.
I digress. I'm poking fun.
Bear with me. My point is:
I am assuming then you *attacked* a guy using a system, Aikido. A
system he has been in MUCH longer and involved more intensly than you.
You are defending and attacking with this system. And he trounces you
using this system.
No offense, but this is evidence of what exactly?
How about this:
Go study *Full Contact* boxing or submission fighting for two years.
THEN come back to attack your Aikido instructor.
THEN tell us what happens.
That would be way cool.
> talk is cheap. i'll quit talking now.
Too true.
Todd Christensen
That's him the corner. Losing his religion.
Paul Ross
or jump through a hole over his bed. i waited till he thought i was done
and had given up then powered through a joint lock that should have taken
him completely by surprise. i tried to sneak up and sucker punch him, but
he kept turning and grinning at me when i'd start his way across a crowded
mat. and i did it for several years before that just for shits and giggles.
looked like fun and i wanted to understand the approach. sure nuff, it's
fun. he didn't throw me out of the dojo cuz he had as much fun taking me
down as i had attacking. he is a good friend. and i have the feeling
nothing i could do would satisfy folks who don't think aikido works. it
wasn't my point anyway. the point was to *do* instead of talk. that's all.
--
Paul Ross
Ross Aikido
pr...@volcano.net
www.angelfire.com/ca/Aikido/
571 South Hwy 49
Jackson, CA 95642
(209) 223-4400 dojo
(209) 295-4365 home
"Todd Christensen" <to...@quesinberry.com> wrote in message
news:6c176d5a.03061...@posting.google.com...
Paul Ross
same with aikido. may not work for u, and i'm sure there's days when
nothing would work for me just cuz i have brain fades sometimes. but it has
worked for me when i needed it to, so i'm happy. and yeah, it's cool. it
also ain't for evreyone. unfortunately, it also attracts a fairly large
amount of intellectuals who never do figure out they couldn't whip their way
out of a wet paper bag. i feel kinda sorry for them. if they ever need it,
they're toast. "fluff" u know? it ain't the art though.
--
Paul Ross
Ross Aikido
pr...@volcano.net
www.angelfire.com/ca/Aikido/
571 South Hwy 49
Jackson, CA 95642
(209) 223-4400 dojo
(209) 295-4365 home
"BillMahoney68" <billma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030617143724...@mb-m24.aol.com...
Badger South
Paul Ross <pr...@volcano.net> wrote:
>have u ever lost in competition? don't mean what u do don't work, right?
>same with aikido. may not work for u, and i'm sure there's days when
>nothing would work for me just cuz i have brain fades sometimes. but it has
>worked for me when i needed it to, so i'm happy. and yeah, it's cool. it
>also ain't for evreyone. unfortunately, it also attracts a fairly large
>amount of intellectuals who never do figure out they couldn't whip their way
>out of a wet paper bag. i feel kinda sorry for them. if they ever need it,
>they're toast. "fluff" u know? it ain't the art though.
>
>--
>Paul Ross
>Ross Aikido
>pr...@volcano.net
>www.angelfire.com/ca/Aikido/
>571 South Hwy 49
>Jackson, CA 95642
>(209) 223-4400 dojo
>(209) 295-4365 home
Paul, since you seem like a sincere type, I'll explain it for
ya.
1. O-sensei had alive core arts. He added a lot from his
personal experience. What he created was -awesome-...for -him-.
2. Some of his early students had some of this core-art
exposure, and did very well. His art and their art was great.
3. What he derived from his work and epiphany was -so- good
that even in the absence of the core arts of O-Sensei, some of
it can do amazing stuff, and some Aiki practitioners can make it
work against some people. Typical aiki-do players can't fight.
I know from experience. Most all aiki-do players look super
cool, and I respect what they do. I don't tell 'em 'dude, come
to the rough part of town and take my back'. <g>
On the whole, as Bill said, it doesn't work...it's missing that
huge core component and experience that O-Sensei had.
Doesn't mean that -some- Aiki can't do some cool stuff. They
may have put some of the core back, but don't realize it, for
instance.
I say 'don't realize it', b/c if they did, they'd be calling on
ALL Aiki to get that core alive training back into the art and
would stop the cooperative dancing around (which looks neat and
is cool, no doubt about it).
Why the aiki contingent doesn't take a sabbatical and do 2-3
years of BJJ and Muay Thai, or Boxing, I have no freakin' idea.
(Actually I do know. It's human nature to resist what would
make you contemplate the truth, sometimes. I struggle with it
all the time. We all do, depending on the level of investiture
in the SOP.)
HTH,
-B
Badger South
Paul Ross <pr...@volcano.net> wrote:
>way ahead of u dude. did kenpo roughly 20 years. and naw, i didn't hit him
>or jump through a hole over his bed. i waited till he thought i was done
>and had given up then powered through a joint lock that should have taken
>him completely by surprise. i tried to sneak up and sucker punch him, but
>he kept turning and grinning at me when i'd start his way across a crowded
>mat. and i did it for several years before that just for shits and giggles.
>looked like fun and i wanted to understand the approach. sure nuff, it's
>fun. he didn't throw me out of the dojo cuz he had as much fun taking me
>down as i had attacking. he is a good friend. and i have the feeling
>nothing i could do would satisfy folks who don't think aikido works. it
>wasn't my point anyway. the point was to *do* instead of talk. that's all.
Dude. Kenpo (Kempo?) for 20 years? How did you spar? In the
ring with a mouthpiece? Did you do some SanShou takedowns and
or power low kicking and clinch fighting?
If you didn't, you've been suckered =twice=. Sorry, man. You
are a good guy, I think.
-B
--
ba...@virginia.edu
Badger South
Yeah, and we can all tell when you're typing with one hand,
man. Get a grip...er, uh, I mean, stop getting a grip. It's bad
fer da keyboard.
So what, didja just get back from running a SWAT practice with
some serious hardware? Get some of those ANVIS AN/AVS 6, third
gen, high rez, aviator's night vision goggles for Father's day?
<g>
-B
Roger Taylor
You make some reasonable points about the flaws in aikido as it can be
practised, though in fairness, the same could be said of almost any
martial art. I've no doubt there are many good souls happily 'doing
their thing' in the various styles of grappling, karate, kung fu etc,
who couldn't punch/wriggle their way out of a paper bag. Not to mention
countless tales along the lines of 'Wotsiname - 'ard man - 93rd Dan -
terror of the dojo - got snotted by these kids in the park'. Without
the right mind set/awareness, you've had it, whatever your training.
And too, there's horses for courses. What are you training for? Life
and death trench/special services warfare? Nightclub door work,
policing, 'routine' self-defence appropriate to your lifestyle? Example
- we had a girl come along the other week - 5ft 6inches, probably 100lb
or so. Punch for punch she'll never make it against a big guy unless
she takes up 357 or 45ACPdo, but, if she sticks with it, she *will* have
the right attitude and enough useful stuff to give herself time to
escape or reach a weapon. Plus she'll enjoy herself, improve her
posture, balance and relaxation, and the confidence this will give her
will probably ensure that she is less likely to get herself in such a
predicament.
Just a thought
Roger Taylor
>> >hee hee hee....i definately KNOW *myself*
>> No you don't - that's you over there - look . . .
>That's him the corner. Losing his religion.
tsk, tsk - how careless can you get?
Cheers - sorry, pax vobiscum
Oh - losing my grip here - I should be selling him mine . . .
Paul Ross
learn. most of what u write is true from my experience, but not all. some
aikido players have indeed put back the -core- arts to a degree. they don't
holler at the rest of the aikido world to do the same for couple of reasons.
it's fun playing with other aikido players. most of it is fluff, but even
the fluff has aspects i can use in a -martial- art. start hollering that
aikido as practiced today needs revamped and you lose that contact with the
aikido world. they turn their backs on you and say what you are doing isn't
even aikido. and in a way they would be right. aikido today is codified
and set in concrete for the most part, but that's normal in the human world.
so by aikido standards putting the -core- back in means not doing aikido any
more.
as for the kenpo being a mistake... i dunno. it was fun for a long time.
then it stopped being fun and i quit doing it. i don't think it was a
mistake myself, but each to their own. i learned fom it. and yeah, i do
aikido, but i am willing to learn from anywhere and incorporate what i can.
even from the aikido and kenpo.
--
Paul Ross
Ross Aikido
pr...@volcano.net
www.angelfire.com/ca/Aikido/
571 South Hwy 49
Jackson, CA 95642
(209) 223-4400 dojo
(209) 295-4365 home
"Badger South" <ba...@node4.unix.Virginia.EDU> wrote in message
news:bcp4st$hu$1...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU...
Badger South
The reason that I take the time to discuss the background of
aikido is two-fold.
1. it is not obvious way to fight, i.e. instinctive, like
throwing a punch or kicking someone. I mean it relies on
instinctual movement, but it's a whole new way of being and
moving. Thus there is a strong need for it to be authenticated.
If a person's punch-kick isn't effective, it's not a conceptual
thing, like can a foot make a kicking motion and can a kick do
damage, basically.
2. The design and theory and application is just so clever and
fun to do, and so philosophically and physically uh,
harmonious, AND it has great potential to be an obvious way to
fight.
As some people have said to me (in email), the UFC guys -all-
use aiki principles.
Well yes and no. It's that aiki has developed and 'discovered'
(or re-discovered) these principles and systematized them. It's
up to them beyond most other martial arts to be 'dead dog dirt
certain' they are tested and functionalized.
I believe they -do- functionalize them, in the sense that they
flow from one move to the other and utilize wonderful body
shifting and foot work, but they are not particularly
functionalized by having true authentic angry mofos doing the
attacking.
Many Aiki practitioners can kick butt, don't get me wrong. They
just need to drag the art into the 21st century, or actually,
back into the 18th century and to their historic roots.
-B
Badger South
>Kenpo...not a mistake...
Let me rephrase. If you took it to learn to fight, just realize
now that it was not a full combat art.
In addition, I think some of the punching, especially the
backfists, and uppercut and short twisting punching is
artificial. Not ready for prime time.
Is it fund to do a typical hybrid style like that, and does it
get you out of the house, yeah. But in order to use it to
fight, i believe the practitioner has to have -very- strong
"attributes". I.e. be already touch and fast and smart.
To be sure, some middle wright boxers have talked about
watching karate moves, or BL movies and trying to get something
to add to their game, I 'spose. But would you suggest that Roy
Jones drop his boxing style punches and throw 'Kenpo' punches?
Don't think so.
In addition, typical kenpo that I'm familiar with advocates the
idea that he can move 3 feet and throw about 10 techniques,
overwhelming the opponent.
This is just not fair and just not true. And don't sho
three-step sparring where the guy does this. It aint reality.
(unless you borrowed some of "Dr Freeze's" power, or the "Power
of Three" and become a "CHarmed one".
You get one move and the opponent gets one move.
-B
--
ba...@virginia.edu
Roger Taylor
>I believe they -do- functionalize them, in the sense that they
>flow from one move to the other and utilize wonderful body
>shifting and foot work, but they are not particularly
>functionalized by having true authentic angry mofos doing the
>attacking.
from its being basically defensive. It is true that aikido can only
really be used when an attack has been started by someone else.
*However*, in my opinion, and certainly the way I practice (and affect
to teach), once the attack has been launched and the ethical decision
made that violence is now the only option, aikido should attack and only
attack. Take, for example, the classic wrist grabbing. The first
response should be directly towards the attacker's face, so that if his
attack is in fact inadequate, you will punch through it and end the
matter without further ado. On meeting resistance, then redirection,
balance-taking etc comes into play - as you say, often very counter-
intuitive moves that take a deal of practice to grasp - (and are also
great fun). At all times however, notwithstanding which way the body
and hands are moving and facing, the feeling should always be directly
towards the attacker.
Mark Goldberg
>
> getting people goat up the way i used to do with you is fun!! i
> totally agree. i'm still doing it it a bit with you, my new found
> gentler side!
> but you have gone berserk with attacking folk who are not here!! and
> who have done their best! but you belittle their effort! and I still
> think you own Ben an apology!
> KId him yeah!!
> treat him the way you have done! No!!
> only that brown nose low life piss of shit! MarkG. deserve this!! :-))
>
> ciao bello and i am going to miss you !!
> but i will from time to tim check up on you!!
>
>
> M.
You sound like every eternal crybaby that's surfaced on RMA's over the
years.
I only remember you from an appearance 2 or 3 yrs ago, when a taji
thread got going, and I emailed you, politely, urging you not to engage
in vitriol and such, and engage the discussion openly and frankly, so
that issues could be addressed, and maybe, something like a technical
discussion could unfold. You seemed to have some experiences, and it
would've made for some interesting history.
I probably stashed the emails somewhere, I don't remember, it was of no
importance, but I'm fairly sure it was as I've said.
And I remember you, responding something to the effect that taiji and
karate, and judo and boxing are all the same, something like that- and
since you had no desire to go beyond that, I didn't bother emailing you
anymore, or even reading beyond what I remember as the same haranging and
personality conflict that I see going on here.
Apparently, you think that I should have remembered you, as much more
important.
Let me clue you in to a few things.
You are nowhere on my radar. Period. Nothing personal- though of
course... now it is, dirtbag.
When I attended classed with RGY and he did this 'groppling' in 95' I
was appalled- and disgusted.
Now- think what you will of this- but he has jin skills, how good, I'm
not capable of judging, but he has them and knows their intrinsic value
and to see him teaching groppling™, which I think is bad judo, poor
fighting, and has nothing to do with the jin skills that every text on
taiji speaks about, as a substitute training method- this I found
unacceptable
I was recommended to try that place by Mike Sigman. When I thought about
how disappointed I was at that particular chen studio,
and what I felt it lacked in teaching, and decided to express this,
ahaving seen glowing reports on RGY by supporters of his chen taiji, by
about 97' I guess on RMA,
I found that I never got any grief, no snot, nor any horseshit, because
I was casting a negative opinion about a chen stylist. From others, yes.
None, zero, nada, from Mike Sigman.
Now- RGY and his groppling didn't interest me in 95.'
So now, you come along, and I hear a comment or two about this, and
maybe in 2001 or 00' who cares, you enter a thread, and there's a
tourney then with you winning your division at 'Groppling'™, and all I
feel is, " none for me thanks"
So I'm a bad guy- to the likes of you. the same year or the next, and
all I can say is - 'None for me Thanks'
Because it's not the jin skills that I've read about, nor heard about,
and I'm too old to be playing in never never land.
I watched the film of that competition the year you were in it, and I
got thru about 2/3rds of that tourney and never watched it again. Any of it.
It doesn't interest me.
Your're a proto fascist type- you like to scream and yell, and bully and
play tagteam opinions, and who gives a shit about the likes of an ass
like yourself, bozo.
I'm a dad, a father, and like all the dad's in the world- I kind of have
a watch out for head cases who might bring harm to little one's and
such- instinct you see-
And from you, here, I see a dimestore sadomasochist braying jackass,
like you did at me- about nothing- and also here again, probably
elsewhere I'd imagine, you creepy bi-polar dirtbag. All I can say is,
'who the hell cares what the hell you do, or don't do... I wouldn't
recommend a creepy sociopath bullyboy like you to teach anyone.
I vaguely remember- wondering if I should've asked you about the YMCA
judo teacher a few miles down the road, back when I emailed that time a
few years ago,
I thought you had experience in judo, or I'd heard it, whatever- but
seeing your taiji pronouncements I thought, never mind. Something
unbearably fixed about what you were 'demanding.'
Now- I know more, why I had that feeling.
You're a dirtbag- go chase a cast, screwball.
You're a sociopath, period. I'm not sure of what kind- but it's lurking
there.
I have no interest in dirtbags like you, with your raging 8th graders
bullying sneering jealousies and vapid group opinionation tag teams. You
line up with the screaming crowd, to get your way.
You throw out your projectile sociopathic
8th grade hate horeseshit, such as you threw out at me in that Judo
thread, for no reason at all. I hardly know you, and you know nothing of me,
except you rage at anyone who's ever 'apparently' sided with Mike Sigman
on any issue of the neijia.
I can't help but imagine, with your tuscan English, that you descended
the Hail- Mussolini and Hail- Stalin, Hail Whoever passes by, or worse,
the Italy of the red and black Fascists who go with whomever top heavey
leader they moo over, and you- slimey boy- surely want everyone to take
your side that judo and karate and taiji and luge are all the same- and
if not-
you wish death and disease to all.
Fascista!- that's what you strike me as- a two bit,little raging fuckhead,
a Little sado-masochististic broiler- that's all I see here
I don't know anything about you ( well, that's not quite true now)...
and you have no idea about me at all.
But you have no problem dragging me into your hate horseshit discussions
of taji is judo etc...
You have nothing in that sewer pipe of a brain, except finding a group,
to try to smear uknowwho....
I have followed this judo sj, discussion because it discusses things I
don't do, but I've gotten a chance to learn and think about these
things, as
others dig up and look up and discuss- and I understand how much time it
takes to do all that work. I am grateful for that.
And though I think M Sigman's assertions and claims merit far more
consideration than the group that banded against these, and indeed made
it ugly and personal- I have to separate myself from that in a definite
and certain sense. Since I practice neither sj or judo or taiji, it is
purely academic, for me, and to judge those other guys- is beyond what I
can reasonably do.
I've posted elsewhere, say in a thread with Ben Holmes, or one or two
others of that group, whatever I 'might think' of their views, whatever
I might feel is 'incorrect' about their claims in this Judo/sj thread,
or which reflects poorly upon their character- I know next to nothing
about either
art, and nothing about 'them'- so I reserve 'judgement' since I'm not
the man for that job.
Now you? You're a dirtbag. This you've shown me. And Mike Sigman is
incorrect, in my opinion- when he stated, 'oh that's just mario's way of
saying hello...'. No, your're a lowlife.
Apologies to Ben Holmes... you say he owes?
You fucknuts... you wouldn't know the meaning, and if anyone asks me '
say, I hear there's someone who does judo pr taji in nyc, names mario,
hat do you think?
Well... I'd say, not unless he parks his can at a quality pschiatrists
office, from what I've seen of him on a newsgroup- he's a lowlife.
And I will, if asked.
Get help, asshole
mark
Todd Christensen
> way ahead of u dude. did kenpo roughly 20 years. and naw, i didn't hit him
> or jump through a hole over his bed. i waited till he thought i was done
> and had given up then powered through a joint lock that should have taken
> him completely by surprise. i tried to sneak up and sucker punch him, but
> he kept turning and grinning at me when i'd start his way across a crowded
> mat. and i did it for several years before that just for shits and giggles.
> looked like fun and i wanted to understand the approach. sure nuff, it's
> fun. he didn't throw me out of the dojo cuz he had as much fun taking me
> down as i had attacking. he is a good friend. and i have the feeling
> nothing i could do would satisfy folks who don't think aikido works. it
> wasn't my point anyway. the point was to *do* instead of talk. that's all.
How does deifine *works*?
There are a few dudes that can make Aikido *work* right out of the
box - in some situations. Sure. But they are rare. And the schools
that nurture these types are rarer still.
The problem that fine motor skill arts like Aikido have is it takes a
MUCH longer gestation cycle and requires many many years of training
to even LEARN properly, let alone apply against skilled resisting
opponents.
Aikido takes a particular type of high coordination to pull off under
stress that the majority of people just do not possess.
Especially if the training involves little hard contact, aliveness, or
resistance.
Taken together--- well... not many Aikidoka I know can dominate
against skilled game fighters using much of the typical Aikido
arsenal.
Is that an inherant unfixable problem with Aikido?
I don't think so.
Mark Goldberg
>Mark:
>
>That was quite a long letter to a "dirtbag" whom you claim not to
>know.
>
>In it you offered two medical diagnoses of someone whom you claim not
>to know: "bi-polar" [sic] and "sociopath" both of which are far
>outside the realm of an average foot doctor. Surely there is an
>ethics board that looks into such matters.
>
>I note for the record that you have departed from using the term "gay"
>and are now focusing on the term "dirtbag". Have you considered
>calling Mario a "gay dirtbag"? It would certainly give your posts a
>panache that might just outweigh the incredible bitterness.
>
>
>
You sniff at other people... like a mutt at a behind,
Doesn't that even remotely clue you in as to what kind of idiot you are
?????
This arse... picked me out, to wish me death, apparently more than once
so he could vainly win some kind of ego contest about some position he
holds...
And of course... you show up, now, licking the rear end of a conversation.
Fleabag.....
Mark
Bassettguy2020
>From: ski_...@hotmail.com (John)
>Date: 06/14/2003 9:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <366f32f2.03061...@posting.google.com>
>
>In your opinion, what are the pros/cons of Aikido?
>
>
does not require a super tough training session.
The disadvantages are that its abstract nature make it less than good for
practical self defense and that a person will not get much exercise.
knuckle dragging hick
The disadvantage of your post is you are a known shill and thus lack
credibility. Now shut your hole or I'll slap you arcoss the mouth with a
dead trout.
You know I will.
--
I would have gotten away with if it werent for those meddling kids!
Lynn Seiser
I enjoy the pros of Aikido training and balance the cons with FMA. The only
real truth is the individual's. Go train and see if it works for you and if you
can make it work. Other than than, please feel free to disregard MHO.
Until again,
"We do not rise to the level of our expectations.
We fall to the level of our training."
Train well. KWATZ!
Lynn Seiser, Ph.D., MFT
Nidan Tenshinkai Aikido
Lucaylucay Kali JKD
www.AikiSolutions.com