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GRACIE TAPES DISCUSSION

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GEEP30

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Nov 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/18/98
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Thanks for your opinion and I agree with you a little. Why call
the tapes advanced then if they are
only basic is what I am saying. If you already had the other tapes then why did
you get the advanced set? What were you expecting to see? Is this true that
Rorion just mumbles through. One of Bills criticisms was that Rorion was
missing the quality of instruction in the advanced tapes and showed the
techniques over and over again.

You know and I know that they repeat techniques way too much on
tape. If one wants to see a technique done over again then just hit the rewind
button. don't get me wrong repeating once is even ok but three to four times is
rediculous and they are guilty of this. The tapes are short enough without them
making them shorter by doing this. I found out that by cutting out the
introduction and the repeats the tapes are only ten minutes long and that
isn't right!!!

It seems like a way to waste time on tape. What I was saying to you
is that I have all of there tapes except for the advanced set. I hear that it
is just the basics done over again with not as good instruction as before. As
far as advanced technique goes I have been studying with Relson Gracie
frequently. He shows me so many techniqes for getting out of certain
situations that I haven't seen on any tape and are very effective. I call what
he shows me advanced and expect to see that from Rorion and Royce's tapes
otherwise they have no business calling them advanced.

I have also heard that there is a very interesting interview tape that
features Rorion and his father slamming Rickson and I think Carlson. Helio
saying that Rickson's record is a bunch of crap and he is more like 8-0 rather
than 400 and 0. That really is a slam cause I have seen him fight way more
than 8 times. Helio went on to say that Rorion is the only one that truely
understands BJJ. It seems to me that Greed is ripping this family apart. Why
else would Rickson's own Dad say that about him? Especially to Americans. He
obviously want millions of people to believe what he said. Even if Rickson was
full of shit about his record. Why did his dad have to broadcast it to the
world? Why did he pick now as a good time to say this? (When they are making
the most money) Why didn't he say this before? If I was a liar about my record
my dad wouldn't try to ruin me in a foriegn country much lass my own. Why are
they trashing other BJJ tapes? They are trashing Renzo Gracie tapes. I have to
say that Rorion is the better teacher on his prior sets but his instruction
wasn't that much better on those tapes. I bought Renzo's first and got more out
of it than Rorion's tapes. Rorion just showed a few more fine points on certain
techniques. But for those fine points it wasn't worth 200 dollars if that is
all one gains is a few fine points. Money is a motive here for all the why's
that I asked. I guess that you are right when you said that you pick up the
fine points when you wrestle. Who needs those tapes for that right?

Oh by the way I wasn't just referring to finishes when I said
techniques. I am talking more along the lines of strategy and masterful
manuevers. This is what I learned more than anything from Relson. What ever you
do, there is a counter for it on to infinity this is what I want to see. Each
counter has it's gross movments and it's own subtlties that make it better.
Some techniques don't work for everyone depending on what body type you have
and attributes you have I don't care how perfect the techniques are and some
techniques are impossible to use for certain people. Meaning Some people have
long arms some have short arms etc. Like tools to fix a car somtimes you may
need a longer tool even if you are great with the shorter tool. For instance I
was at a Royce Gracie seminar and was practicing a certain move that Royce had
us work on. The guy had short legs and arms and just could not do the technique
on me. The guy was complaining and discusted because of the money he spent and
kept calling Royce over. Royce came up and told him that it was a different
escape and would not tell him nor I what it was. He just mumbled telling me to
let him do it. Let him do it????

I grappled Royce more than once and I have to say that because I am
very familiar with grappling that it was a surprise sneaky move that he used to
beat me. It was not just the basics with subtlties. It was a different counter
or a variant that he put on the technique or strategy. Granted it wasn't a
flashy flamboyant move nor was it an unoticed subtlty either.

I would just like to point out that Royce fought early in the UFC
against fighters that didn't even know what grappling was about. It is easy to
win against fighters that don't know any submission on the ground. He surprised
everyone this is why he won. This was the first time people were exposed to
this Vale Tudo grappling. You could tell this because when Royce had them they
didn't do anything correct on the ground none of them. Just very stupid
mistakes that nobody makes now. Times have changed. Even when Severn got caught
in the triangle it was because he and I am quoting him and believe him cause of
his fighting back ground said that "he never seen that technique before". So
it is safe to say that it was an advanced technique for himSince he didn't know
about it. As you know now the triangle is easy to defend against. It doesn't
take years learning how to defend against it either. That was then this is now.

So when you bring up the past about how Royce beat all those fighters
using just the basics to illustrate your point. Think about now in the present
not the past and how Mario sperry beat Royler Gracie by breaking his ankle and
Ruas getting beaten by getting punched to death on the ground. Lets not forget
the fight with the smaller japanese fighter that fought Renzo Gracie. Renzo got
to his back with the hooks in and a choke in place and he still got away!!!
This happened over again. Renzo tried to armlock him and he broke free. Renzo
mounted him and he got away. Renzo tried to trangle him and he broke free. This
Japanese fellow use some slick moves to get out of every finish move and
position that Renzo put him in. repeatedly at leased three times per each one
of Renzo's move. Renzo was all tired and the Jap was full of fire and energy
and smiling at Renzo telling him to come on. Renzo stood there breathing hard
with his hands on his knees with a very disenchanted look on his face. They
called that fight a draw because of the time limit. But Renzo poked around at
the end and really slowed down. If this was a no time limit fight Renzo would
have lost. You run out of gas you lose and Renzo sure did!!!. this wasn't lucky
for the japanese guy cause he did this repeatedly from all positions with
counter techniques of his own unknown to Renzo obviously. I WISH THAT GUY WOULD
COME OUT WITH TAPES EVERYBODY AND THERE BROTHER WOULD BE BUYING THEM. INCLUDING
ME!!!!!

The Brazillian's and the Gracies are not having it easy anymore
like they use to why? because people have become familiar with the moves. The
answer is simple. They were not familiar with the moves before and they are now
and that makes all the difference. I am not slamming them at all I am just
being realistic. I think that they contributed greatly to the Martial Arts and
made us all better fighters by making us aware of the reality of fights ending
up on the ground. my hat is off I solute the Gracies!!!! But it is also true
that times have changed and Royce fought people that didn't no any grappling
and if they did they had limited submission. Also most of these fighters even
in there own game didn't start before they could walk and practice with all of
there brothers every day. Day in and day out constantly coached by a father
who is a grand master fighting champion either. So when Royce says after a win
in the ufc. "It isn't me it is the technique" Nothing could be futher from the
truth!!!!!!!! It is a bunch of crap!! Most of us have jobs that We have to go
to to get the money to go to dojos with instruction of far less quality.
Because of jobs and other things her that we have to do in order to survive in
this world, we cannot spend all day there every day either. They always had a
training partner from birth and a father Like Helio for the best possible
instruction.

With the above being said. The fighters in the UFC who fought Royce were
at a huge disadvantage. Royce had almost 30 years of intense experience. What
fighter had that many years. Ken Shamrock was at a disadvantge with his ten
years at the most behind him and Frank I am told has even less that Ken. I
wonder what either of them would be like if they did this since birth with a
champion family to train with. Royce told me personally and many others at a
seminar that "They have escapes and counters that you can and can't even
imagine"!!! Well Do you no what? I believe him and I say. Well where are they
Royce and Rorion? I sure would like to see them on there advanced set.

Gichoke

unread,
Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
to
>
> I have also heard that there is a very interesting interview tape
>that
>features Rorion and his father slamming Rickson and I think Carlson. Helio
>saying that Rickson's record is a bunch of crap and he is more like 8-0
>rather
>than 400 and 0. That really is a slam

I would like to see a transcript of this interveiw,until I see Helio "slam"
Rickson,i'll be skeptical.

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