Kick-boxing beginner with lower back pain..?
Robert Taylor
Please remove "sansspam" from return address to reply by e-mail
Dear all,
I've just started training, and the twice-weekly class involves
stretching alone and with a partner, followed by syllabus work, followed
by a warm-down.
I'm starting to get an ache in my lower back, and I'm told this is
because the kicks strain that area and that it will strengthen up.
However, at least one other guy there who has been doing it for 2
years now claims he _still_ has lower back pain.
This has got me pretty worried... is this bad form? Bad stretching?
Or is it really something that is inevitable when you start doing things
you haven't done before, and it will pass?
Otherwise I don't ache hardly at all, and since I was active before
starting and stretching most days anyway. One of the assisted stretches
was to sit on the floor, legs apart and straight, toes up in the air.
Then a partner pushes your back down towards the floor (forwards between
your legs) - as far as I can see this has to stretch the lower back and
could damage the spine... shouldn't we be keeping our backs straight?
Is it necessary to stretch the muscles of the lower back and if so what
is the safest way to do it?
Robert
Eric Iverson
Robert Taylor wrote:
> I've just started training, and the twice-weekly class involves
> stretching alone and with a partner, followed by syllabus work, followed
> by a warm-down.
>
> I'm starting to get an ache in my lower back, and I'm told this is
> because the kicks strain that area and that it will strengthen up.
Right. You must strengthen your back.
> However, at least one other guy there who has been doing it for 2
> years now claims he _still_ has lower back pain.
>
> This has got me pretty worried... is this bad form? Bad stretching?
> Or is it really something that is inevitable when you start doing things
> you haven't done before, and it will pass?
It's probably more indicative of weak back muscles.
Try a regular program of sit-ups. Three sets of ten every
day to start.
This advice is based on my personal experience only.
Before I stated MA, I had terrible lower back pain.
Luckily we did lots of sit-ups or ab-crunches
in class and my back strengthened up and the pain went
away.
--Eric
Ookami
>Dear all,
>
>I've just started training, and the twice-weekly class involves
>stretching alone and with a partner, followed by syllabus work, followed
>by a warm-down.
>
>I'm starting to get an ache in my lower back, and I'm told this is
>because the kicks strain that area and that it will strengthen up.
>
>years now claims he _still_ has lower back pain.
>
>This has got me pretty worried... is this bad form? Bad stretching?
>Or is it really something that is inevitable when you start doing things
>you haven't done before, and it will pass?
First, get checked out by a physician to make sure you don't have a
medical reason for the aches. Common causes are a curving of the
spine, spine out of alignment, or hips out of alignment.
Second, make sure you strengthen your abs and your back at the same
time. The muscles that help support the back are the lumbar muscles
(back muscles) and the abdominals. Both muscle groups support the
back and can cause aches.
Third, make sure you aren't overdoing it. Kickboxing is not something
you want to rush into. Yes, you should push yourself. But do it
slowly at first and harder as you progress.
I've been involved in martial arts for 5 years and 3 years in
gymnastics. I've seen alot of people forced to quit because of
injuries suffered from trying for too much, too soon. Your friend who
has back problems could be one of them.
Be careful.
Ookami
ook...@erols.com
tookatz
>Robert Taylor wrote:
>
>> I've just started training, and the twice-weekly class involves
>> stretching alone and with a partner, followed by syllabus work, followed by a warm-down.
>>
>> I'm starting to get an ache in my lower back, and I'm told this is
>> because the kicks strain that area and that it will strengthen up.
>> However, at least one other guy there who has been doing it for 2
>> years now claims he _still_ has lower back pain.
>>
>> This has got me pretty worried... is this bad form? Bad stretching?
>> Or is it really something that is inevitable when you start doing things you haven't done before, and it will pass?
>This advice is based on my personal experience only.
>Before I stated MA, I had terrible lower back pain.
>Luckily we did lots of sit-ups or ab-crunches
>in class and my back strengthened up and the pain went
>away.
>
>
>--Eric
Lower back pain is nothing to play around with, as it could lead to more
debilitating effects later in life. As a previous poster mentioned,
lower back muscles could be the problem but don't be simply satisfied
with that explanation. In my experience, many MA clubs have the most
destructive stretching techniques I have ever seen, and they continue to
use them out of sheer ignorance of what they are doing. For example...a
common stretch for the hamstrings/calf area requires a person to sit on
the floor with their legs stretched out in front, and the person then
reeaches for their toes, sometimes lifting them off the ground for a
short while. This has the effect of compressing the cartilage in the
lumbar (lower back) region, leading to permenant damage if continued. A
better exercise would be to stand straight up, cross one foot in front of
the other and simply let your body slowly lean forwards, without
straining or reaching you will acheive the same stretch, then repeat
croosing the other foot. I recommend your friend and yourself go to a
sports doctor who will be able to tell you the best stretches...maybe
you'll even be able to teach your instructor a thing or two as well.
Cheers,
Michael Parker
JJ.
jmi...@imap2.asu.edu
On Fri, 25 Jul 1997, Robert Taylor wrote:
> I've just started training, and the twice-weekly class involves
> stretching alone and with a partner, followed by syllabus work, followed
> by a warm-down.
>
> I'm starting to get an ache in my lower back, and I'm told this is
> because the kicks strain that area and that it will strengthen up.
>
> However, at least one other guy there who has been doing it for 2
> years now claims he _still_ has lower back pain.
First, is your MA teacher a MEDICAL doctor? If he is not you should go
directly to a medical doctor and have a *yuck* physical and other fun
stuff done. Back pain is not some thing you want to handle wrong!!! If
I was to give you advise (I am not giving you advise cuz of legal
reasons) is GO TO A DOCTOR NOW, mabey quit kickboxing, go to something a
little nicer on your body like aikido or ninjutisu.
FOR LEGAL REASONS: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING I SAY AS
TRUTHFULL, ONLY A MEDICAL DOCTOR CAN GIVE SUCH A STATEMENT.
M Klaes
Micheal Parker wrote:
>Lower back pain is nothing to play around with, as it could lead to more
>debilitating effects later in life. As a previous poster mentioned,
>lower back muscles could be the problem but don't be simply satisfied
>with that explanation. In my experience, many MA clubs have the most
>destructive stretching techniques I have ever seen, and they continue to
>use them out of sheer ignorance ...
<snip>
>I recommend your friend and yourself go to a
>sports doctor who will be able to tell you the best stretches...maybe
>you'll even be able to teach your instructor a thing or two as well.
Admittedly, if you open any recent vintage sports physiology textbook
etc, they will tell you just this: that a large proportion of the
"traditional" warm up exercises are destructive to certain parts of the
body, and that there are certain ways to achieve similar results without
doing any damage.
For beginners and "the typical MA student" (ie the one who trains at
most twice a week and drops out sooner ot later, or who manages to
advance leisurely to a Shodan in some schools) this is the correct
advice, imho.
But from the perspective of the serious martial artist, there are limits
to this fashionalble form of "political correctness". A fit individual
can perform most of those dangerous exercises without doing any damage
(and the better books mention this). And: if you push to the limits of
bodily performance, you must be aware that you are taking bigger risks
anyway. Yes, attempting to bridge might damage the lumbar discs of the
average beginner, and the bridge is frequently counted amoung the
exercises to be discontinued. But if you train in Judo, for example, you
are well advised to learn how to bridge well (if you want to win modern
competitions , that is).
Turning to MA weapons: a number of them are simply not designed with the
purpose in mind to be healthy to the human body of the practitioner. So
if you decide to train weapons, you take certain risks.
Turning away from the warming up exercises to the actual techniques
performed, again, it is a bit hasty to assume that they necessarily
contribute to the body's well-being. While this is trivial for bad
technique, it remains valid for many properly (ie efficiently)
performed techniques.
This is all not unique to the martial arts, just talk to people in their
40s or 50s who have instensely practised any other sport (yes you will
also find the few without any problems ...).
If you take up martial arts, and you stick to it and make it a way of
life, you are more likely to get injured, some way or the other. If you
do Judo, you'll lose one or the other cartilage of your knee, if you
train Nunchaku, your knee will suffer in other ways, if you do Kick
Boxing, you might well break your nose once or twice, in Karate there
are the teeth that could go sooner or later, if you use the Bo, your
lower back will have to withstand tremendous pressures, if you train
Iai, yes there is the very real possibility that one day you will have
cut yourself with the live Katana etc etc etc ( not to mention Judo Kata
with live blades, ...)
Martial arts are inherently DANGEROUS, that is their essence. Whoever
practices takes higher risks. If you don't like the risks, join up with
the "modern" martial arts/sports, or do callistenics, or buy a gun.
MK
BTW: many people will have a different view on this, which I respect
(just to preempt flames)
AND: I have had enough of this ng, so that's me in this forum, flame on
and waste your time, I'll think of you and TRAIN :-)
JOE JOE543
detroit combat league
elizz...@gmail.com
> Please remove "sansspam" from return address to reply by e-mail
>
> Dear all,
>
> stretching alone and with a partner, followed by syllabus work, followed
> by a warm-down.
>
> I'm starting to get an ache in my lower back, and I'm told this is
> because the kicks strain that area and that it will strengthen up.
>
> However, at least one other guy there who has been doing it for 2
> years now claims he _still_ has lower back pain.
>
> Or is it really something that is inevitable when you start doing things
> you haven't done before, and it will pass?
>
> starting and stretching most days anyway. One of the assisted stretches
> was to sit on the floor, legs apart and straight, toes up in the air.
>
> Then a partner pushes your back down towards the floor (forwards between
> your legs) - as far as I can see this has to stretch the lower back and
> could damage the spine... shouldn't we be keeping our backs straight?
>
> Is it necessary to stretch the muscles of the lower back and if so what
> is the safest way to do it?
>
> Robert