Paulie Zink
taishin...@my-dejanews.com
very impressive. I was cruising and came upon his website at
www.martialinfo.com. He was selling a book on the history of the art. I got
that as well and loved it. Talk about a detailed history of the art. He shows
the lineage of the art, what role his instructor plays, as well as recognition
to Chan Sau Chung and Ken Tak Hoi, the 3rd and 2nd generation instructors. I'm
glad I got the book.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
David A Ross
people what they do is real and get attention
Zink is a 100% FRAUD. Chan Sau Chung was about to rip him a new a-hole
when he was in Hong Kong and mr Zink booked out of town.
taishin...@my-dejanews.com
lkf...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> OH YAWN, a student of Zink and webmaster of this page trying to convince
> people what they do is real and get attention
>
> Zink is a 100% FRAUD. Chan Sau Chung was about to rip him a new a-hole
> when he was in Hong Kong and mr Zink booked out of town.
I like to think of myself as a student of Zink. He's been here in NY several
times and I have attended each one of his seminars. I think I'm a much better
authority on monkey kung fu than you are. I say I'm "attempting to study"
because no one else here teaches monkey, but I've been working from one of the
tapes for the last year.
So,let's see. Since you claim to know more about monkey than I do, here are a
couple of questions for you:
1. Was Zink ever in Hong Kong or was he in China? 2. If so, what year? 3. If
so, who did he train with when he was over there in Hong Kong or China? Now,
if you don't know that one, you have no idea of what you are talking about.
4. Does Chung teach Americans? 5. If so, how long will he teach them? Years,
months, etc.? 6. How's your Cantonese? You better know it well if you ever
talked to him. 7. How many students of Zink have trained with Chung?
So, there's 7 little questions. Let's see who's the fraud.
David A Ross
ji gei hauk Guangdong wah. Ngo Guangdong wah hai ge bon dan hai ngo sik
tong wah. Nei sik Guangdong wah mah? Mou?
You've picked a fight with the WRONG person. My sifu was good friends
with Chan Sau Chung when he was in Hong Kong. My training brother was in
Hong Kong with Chan Sau Chung when Paulie Zink went to visit as a
tourist and walked in the streets with Chan Sau Chung when he was
looking for Zink (having heard he was eating nearby). The same guy had
known Zink in CA before going over, Zink had even asked him to buy him
an Chinese opera monkey king suit. Back then, Zink was claiming some
Hung Ga guy as his sifu and claimed he learned monkey from him.
By the way, there are REAL monkey kung-fu teachers in NY, you just don't
know them
taishin...@my-dejanews.com
It says that Zink trained with Lam Jo, best friend of Ken Tak Hoi. A hung gar
master, you must be watching Zink's tapes as well.
And I've never heard of a monkey school out here? I've never seen anyone
perform other then Paulie Zink. He was so impressive there was, and I feel no
need to look for anyone else. And hey, how can I get one those opera outfits?
I think I would look good in one.
J.A.Hennum
>
> Guangdong wah? Ngo sifu hai Toi San yan, koy mm sik ing man sou yi ngo
> ji gei hauk Guangdong wah. Ngo Guangdong wah hai ge bon dan hai ngo sik
> tong wah. Nei sik Guangdong wah mah? Mou?
heh... I couldn't have said it better myself!! Could you please
translate??? Or is this just a two man quarrel???
--
Jørn Arild Hennum
------------------
my martial arts pages:
http://huizen.dds.nl/~jahennum/martial/maindex.html
Kyle...just Kyle
J.A.Hennum wrote in message <370A610D...@dds.nl>...
>David A Ross wrote:
>>
>> Guangdong wah? Ngo sifu hai Toi San yan, koy mm sik ing man sou yi ngo
>> ji gei hauk Guangdong wah. Ngo Guangdong wah hai ge bon dan hai ngo sik
>> tong wah. Nei sik Guangdong wah mah? Mou?
>
>heh... I couldn't have said it better myself!! Could you please
>translate??? Or is this just a two man quarrel???
Loosely, Mr. Ross is getting indignant that the previous poster assumed he
didn't know Cantonese. His sifu's from Toi San and doesn't speak English so
he ( Mr. Ross ) went and learned Cantonese. He says he's not very good,
then asks if the other guy knows Cantonese.
Some of the words are phoneticized awkwardly, but then Cantonese is harder
to phoneticize than Mandarin. I heard somewhere that Mandarin has four
basic tones, while Cantonese has nine.
------------------------------------------------------------
Digital-Ages Online http://www.digital-ages.com
Sega, Nintendo, Sony, etc
Schrodinger's Cat is dead.
------------------------------------------------------------
p...@mail.utexas.edu
wrote:
>David A Ross wrote:
>>
>> Guangdong wah? Ngo sifu hai Toi San yan, koy mm sik ing man sou yi ngo
>> ji gei hauk Guangdong wah. Ngo Guangdong wah hai ge bon dan hai ngo sik
>> tong wah. Nei sik Guangdong wah mah? Mou?
>
>heh... I couldn't have said it better myself!! Could you please
>translate??? Or is this just a two man quarrel???
I'll put in my two cents. (in pinyin)
Wei shenma ni jiang guangdong hua? Tai duo de ren ting de bu dong, wo
ye ting de bu dong. You hen duo de ren bu shi Guangdong hai shi
Xianggang lai de. Zhe ge ren bu zhi dao Zink shuo de hua bu shi zhen
de.
(wo men xian zai yong zhong wen da i da)
biu...@my-dejanews.com
<ky...@digital-ages.com> wrote:
>
>J.A.Hennum wrote in message <370A610D...@dds.nl>...
>>David A Ross wrote:
>>>
>>> Guangdong wah? Ngo sifu hai Toi San yan, koy mm sik ing man sou yi ngo
>>> ji gei hauk Guangdong wah. Ngo Guangdong wah hai ge bon dan hai ngo sik
>>> tong wah. Nei sik Guangdong wah mah? Mou?
Ah is the question sound. Not ?
>>heh... I couldn't have said it better myself!! Could you please
>>translate??? Or is this just a two man quarrel???
>
>
>Loosely, Mr. Ross is getting indignant that the previous poster assumed he
>didn't know Cantonese. His sifu's from Toi San and doesn't speak English so
>he ( Mr. Ross ) went and learned Cantonese. He says he's not very good,
>then asks if the other guy knows Cantonese.
He should ask himself if he knows cantonese.
>Some of the words are phoneticized awkwardly, but then Cantonese is harder
>to phoneticize than Mandarin. I heard somewhere that Mandarin has four
>basic tones, while Cantonese has nine.
6, with 3 hidden tones to be exact... Read as: You cant learn
cantonese from a audiocassete or book. But then again, what language
can you learn without actually living in there?
Yi ge zhi dou de dan sheng
-^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^-
"Pledge allegiance to what?! Burn the flag, the systems unjust.." --LaQuan
Chines culture for idiots. China is part of mogolia. Or, I was a teenage capitalist.
http://www.geocities.com:80/Athens/Parthenon/5382/chinawar.html
biu...@my-dejanews.com ICQ: 23934701
-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^--^-^-^-^-
Sneak across the sea in broad daylight.
David A Ross
yin)
Wo ye shou dian-dian guo yue. Wo tai-tai shi Shanghai ren he ta ba-ba
ma-ma bu shou ying wen. Wo shih fu shi Guangdong ren, ta bu neng shou
ying wen sou yi wo xue Guangdong hua.
Sorry folks, but the question was raised as to language proficiencies
and they have A LOT to do with what you hear. People like dear old
"biugung", who remains nameless and faceless but used to like to quote
my articles when they served HIS purposes, don't want to believe that
but it doesn't change the fact
p...@mail.utexas.edu wrote:
>
> On Tue, 06 Apr 1999 21:31:25 +0200, "J.A.Hennum" <jahe...@dds.nl>
> wrote:
>
> >David A Ross wrote:
> >>
> >> Guangdong wah? Ngo sifu hai Toi San yan, koy mm sik ing man sou yi ngo
> >> ji gei hauk Guangdong wah. Ngo Guangdong wah hai ge bon dan hai ngo sik
> >> tong wah. Nei sik Guangdong wah mah? Mou?
> >
> >heh... I couldn't have said it better myself!! Could you please
> >translate??? Or is this just a two man quarrel???
Oyangowa
<lkf...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>(poorly and unofficially transliterated; ie neither wade-giles nor pin
>yin)
>
>Wo ye shou dian-dian guo yue. Wo tai-tai shi Shanghai ren he ta ba-ba
>ma-ma bu shou ying wen. Wo shih fu shi Guangdong ren, ta bu neng shou
>ying wen sou yi wo xue Guangdong hua.
>
>Sorry folks, but the question was raised as to language proficiencies
>and they have A LOT to do with what you hear. People like dear old
And thats why they have attempted to create writing systems which help
out with the meanings. Comprendé? Tone numbers help too. If anyone
cares to use them.
>"biugung", who remains nameless and faceless but used to like to quote
There are plenty of faceless people on the internet. People who's
faces shouldnt be seen in the first place. As far as names. One can
talk about anything you care to. Talk is cheap.
People recognise the utility of the internet for wool pulling. If you
want to pull wool over people's eyes, its your business. I know more
than a few people that claim serious proficency in languages. In the
area of fluency. Even some guy on bill mar the other day claiming his
daughter learned japanese from a book and is fluent. (bullshit meter
is in the red zone)
What was that joke asians tell about non-asian people thinking your a
genius because you can speak and read two languages? Consider the
source. Who's claiming it and who's verifying it?
Was this father lying? Was his daugher lying? No. But consider the
bias. "My daugthers so smart because she can speak two languages"
"Iron chicken wing mantis is better than the traditional mantis forms
because our sifu added X, and X and threw in X. And also learned X."
Claims have to be backed up R-i-g-h-t? Oh, only on some things. You
can teach yourself languages buy not kungfu. You can make up your own
styles or forms if you've become established in your own system. But
not anytime after.
One guy that will go unnamed finally hung himself like most charlatans
do eventually(karma) and started bragging on sci.language.japanese and
was exposed as a clueless idiot by people that are actually japanese,
live(d) in japan, and grew up with the language.
No wonder usenets so evil.
>my articles when they served HIS purposes, don't want to believe that
Borrow a sword, to kill another.
>but it doesn't change the fact
I dont claim proficency. I dont claim anything. Thats the point.
I'm a beginner in cantonese and mandarian. And will continue to be
untill I LIVE amongst them (not just spend a few weeks there) for a
certain period. Become accepted on their terms, if ever. None
sooner.
Its just interesting to see the double standards people live by pop up
over and over, and over.
Your point about serving selfish purposes. To deny that this
motivates people, for rational or irrational purposes, is silly.
Bryan P.M. Chu
standard somewhere? Or is it just a matter of sounding things out in
your head and typing to the best of you're ability? Just curious.
Bryan
Kyle...just Kyle wrote:
>
> J.A.Hennum wrote in message <370A610D...@dds.nl>...
> >David A Ross wrote:
> >>
> >> Guangdong wah? Ngo sifu hai Toi San yan, koy mm sik ing man sou yi ngo
> >> ji gei hauk Guangdong wah. Ngo Guangdong wah hai ge bon dan hai ngo sik
> >> tong wah. Nei sik Guangdong wah mah? Mou?
> >
> >heh... I couldn't have said it better myself!! Could you please
> >translate??? Or is this just a two man quarrel???
>
> Loosely, Mr. Ross is getting indignant that the previous poster assumed he
> didn't know Cantonese. His sifu's from Toi San and doesn't speak English so
> he ( Mr. Ross ) went and learned Cantonese. He says he's not very good,
> then asks if the other guy knows Cantonese.
>
> Some of the words are phoneticized awkwardly, but then Cantonese is harder
> to phoneticize than Mandarin. I heard somewhere that Mandarin has four
> basic tones, while Cantonese has nine.
>
David A Ross
speak anything but (and his friends) so we're not talking about book
learning, etc. My Cantonese isn't by any means perfect but it is
functional, I can speak to people and I understand. I spent 6 years as a
member of the Eastern US Kung-Fu Federation where meetings were only
held in Cantonese.
Pretty much EVERYTHING can be proven. Chan Sau Chung published 4 books
on his system. I've got video tape of him as well. I've worked out with
his students. What Paulie Zink does has NO BEARING on the real system.
15 years ago Paulie Zink traveled around with a Chinese man with the
surname "Lee". He claimed that was his monkey sifu. Now he claims a
person named "Cho Chat Ling". Zink claims "Cho Chat Ling" was Kan Duhk
Hoi's SENIOR student but no one inside the Dai Sing Pek Gwa Myuhn system
has even HEARD of him.
The guy on this group now has claimed that Zink learned some monkey from
Lum Jo. Well, here's an interesting one. I've studied the Pek Gwa part
of the system of Kan Duhk Hoi under Y.C. Wong. Y.C. Wong learned the Pek
Gwa forms directly from Kan Duhk Hoi because Lum Jo was his friend. Y.C.
Wong was very clear about something;
WHEN KAN DUHK HOI ACCEPTED STUDENTS FROM LUM JO's SCHOOL HE ONLY TAUGHT
THEM PEK GWA. No one but his adopted disciples (Baai Si'd) learned the
five monkeys.
Zink's story doesn't add up, it has changed over the years. Not only
does his kung-fu not look like the monkey system he claims it to be, it
is questionable kung-fu in general.
p...@mail.utexas.edu
<not_th...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Where the heck did you guys learn to phoneticize? Is there an accepted
>standard somewhere? Or is it just a matter of sounding things out in
>your head and typing to the best of you're ability? Just curious.
>
>Bryan
Well in Chinese taught in western education there are a couple of
phonetic nomenclatures in place, the only one I know for Mandarin is
known as PinYin. The other standard I don't know. Normally there are
tone marks as well but ya can't do that too easily with the typed
word...
Kyle...just Kyle
Bryan P.M. Chu wrote in message <370E74...@yahoo.com>...
>Where the heck did you guys learn to phoneticize? Is there an accepted
>standard somewhere? Or is it just a matter of sounding things out in
>your head and typing to the best of you're ability? Just curious.
Hanyu Pinyin is the PRC standard I think. Wade Giles is an older method,
which I personally think is more cumbersome. I'm not sure if there's any
systematic phonetic system for Cantonese.
BKlingborg
>which I personally think is more cumbersome. I'm not sure if there's any
>systematic phonetic system for Cantonese.
Pinyin is the PRC method. The Taiwanese use a special phonetic alphabet that
works very well (the only problem is you have to memorize the alphabet, but
this ensures that you don't end up using English pronunciation for Chinese
words). Most scholars are still very comfortable using the Wade system, as a
lot of the classical works written by foreigners on Chinese texts make use of
it. As for tone marks, Chinese is a heavily contextual language -- even
without knowing the tones (when reading) you can usually figure out what is
being said by context.
taishin...@my-dejanews.com
Wow, you are really wierd. I once saw these guys in line to see a Star Trek
movie and they were all dressed like a Klingon. They acted really weird and
they all talked Klingon. I think you are strong candidate for this category.
Bruce Lee was a great martial artist, he's in the Black Belt and Inside Kung
Fu hall of fame, Y.C. Wong is a great martial artist, he's in the Black Belt
and Inside Kung Fu hall of fame, Paulie Zink is a great martial artist, he's
also in the Black Belt and Inside Kung Fu hall of fame. I'd say that's some
outstanding points of recognition.
End of conversation. You are too, too wierd, and I don't want to learn
Klingon. Reminds of those games where those guys play Dungeons and Dragons.
taishin...@my-dejanews.com
Personally, I enjoy Mandarin. I only took it for a couple of years but I
really enjoy it.
d...@wingchun.com
: In article <370E7F...@worldnet.att.net>,
This is all you can respond with in terms of someone giving you
DIRECT facts, with names to back them up?
Black Belt and IKF will host ads, articles etc. if anyone pays them enough.
They do absolutely NO VERIFICATION of anyones lineage, credentials etc.
in terms of the martial arts they claim to know.
For them it is about selling videos and magazines.
: Bruce Lee was a great martial artist, he's in the Black Belt and Inside Kung
: Fu hall of fame, Y.C. Wong is a great martial artist, he's in the Black Belt
: and Inside Kung Fu hall of fame, Paulie Zink is a great martial artist, he's
: also in the Black Belt and Inside Kung Fu hall of fame. I'd say that's some
: outstanding points of recognition.
See above.
Bottom line...what is the derivation of Paulie Zink's "monkey kung fu"?
Who are his teachers?
Or is this Paulie Zink's Monkey system?
--
David Williams mailto:d...@wingchun.com
Planet Wing Chun http://www.wingchun.com/
Bay Area Wing Chun Association http://www.thesphere.com/SJWC
taishin...@my-dejanews.com
>
> Bottom line...what is the derivation of Paulie Zink's "monkey kung fu"?
> Who are his teachers?
>
> Or is this Paulie Zink's Monkey system?
Someone's word of mouth version gets really tiring. They like to slant it to
what pleases them. Then they love to change to story every time. I picked
the little information I know from the book on the history of the monkey kung
fu art through www.martialinfo.com which also has the lineage of teachers
from the book, and the history from the video from www.panthervideo.com. I
would check it out, see something that's actually written down, look at his
videos and you be the judge. According to the book, Zink has three
consecutive grand championships at Ed Parker's Long Beach Internationals in
which he beat such competitors as Cynthia Rothrock, George Chung, John Chung,
etc. If you know the tournament circuit, this can be easily verified.
Don't take my word for it, and don't take someone else's personal opinion of
it, check it out for yourself. I was truly amazed by his skill. I plan to
hopefully one day attain a portion of that skill.
David A Ross
about your and Paulie Zink's credibility. ZERO
If you don't speak Chinese, your ability to check certain facts is
severly limited RE kung-fu. Because I speak and can read (grade school
level but I can read a book) I can get REAL info about Monkey and thus
know you and your teacher are FRAUDS
> Bruce Lee was a great martial artist, he's in the Black Belt and Inside Kung
> Fu hall of fame, Y.C. Wong is a great martial artist, he's in the Black Belt
> and Inside Kung Fu hall of fame, Paulie Zink is a great martial artist, he's
> also in the Black Belt and Inside Kung Fu hall of fame. I'd say that's some
> outstanding points of recognition.
>
> End of conversation. You are too, too wierd, and I don't want to learn
> Klingon. Reminds of those games where those guys play Dungeons and Dragons.
>
David A Ross
video tape where he claims he is great. But don't trust the book written
by the acknowledged grandmaster of the system. You're pathetic, you
can't put an argument together. You reject real facts for what one man
says.
Being in IKF means very little. If that is your criteria then I've
personally been in IKF over 25 times. I'm also an instructor
acknowledged by the Eastern US Kung-Fu Federation, North American
Chinese Martial Arts Federation, Guangdong Martial Arts Association, USA
WKF and UKFS. I suppose none of those organizations mean anything to
you, proving you have no CLUE.
taishin...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Bottom line...what is the derivation of Paulie Zink's "monkey kung fu"?
> > Who are his teachers?
> >
> > Or is this Paulie Zink's Monkey system?
>
> Someone's word of mouth version gets really tiring. They like to slant it to
> what pleases them. Then they love to change to story every time. I picked
> the little information I know from the book on the history of the monkey kung
> fu art through www.martialinfo.com which also has the lineage of teachers
> from the book, and the history from the video from www.panthervideo.com. I
> would check it out, see something that's actually written down, look at his
> videos and you be the judge. According to the book, Zink has three
> consecutive grand championships at Ed Parker's Long Beach Internationals in
> which he beat such competitors as Cynthia Rothrock, George Chung, John Chung,
> etc. If you know the tournament circuit, this can be easily verified.
>
> Don't take my word for it, and don't take someone else's personal opinion of
> it, check it out for yourself. I was truly amazed by his skill. I plan to
> hopefully one day attain a portion of that skill.
>
taishin...@my-dejanews.com
lkf...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> AH, when confronted with FACTS you respond with Klingons? Says alot
> about your and Paulie Zink's credibility. ZERO
>
> If you don't speak Chinese, your ability to check certain facts is
> severly limited RE kung-fu. Because I speak and can read (grade school
> level but I can read a book) I can get REAL info about Monkey and thus
> know you and your teacher are FRAUDS
>
I see. Now I understand. A non-Chinese has mastered a Chinese art and you are
upset about it. I was wondering why you were so upset. Instead of acknowleging
a person's skill, you call him a fraud. I understand now.
I think you should do a little more research instead of just hearsay, and your
so-called FACTS. Let me run down the documented line, which is also displayed
on www.martialinfo.com and through www.panthervideo.com, and through
www.cfwgroup.com, and
http://www.martialinfo.com/Styles/monkey.htm ,etc.
Kou Sze, Founder of the monkey art
Ken Tak Hoi, 2nd generation
From Ken Tak Hoi (who, according to the book, first taught on the mainland),
came a variety of students (only a few of these were taught both Tai Shing and
Pek Kwar), two of these include:
Cho Chi Fung Chan Sau Chung
From Chi Chi Fung came From Chan Sau Chung came
Cho Chat Ling a variety of students
From Cho Chat Ling came (the list appears on the tree)
one student, Paulie Zink from his students came
(a variety of students)
a few from the list appears on
the tree
According to the book, Lam Jo is a great Hung Gar teacher, not a Tai Shing
teacher. It says that Lam Jo and Ken Tak Hoi were best friends. I don't see
anywhere where it says that Lam Jo taught monkey as you say he did.
You know, I've heard this time and time again that only an Asian can truly
master an art. I don't believe this is true and Paulie Zink, and many other
non-Asians have mastered many arts.
Let me see if I have this right.
If Asian = Credibility "10", If non-Asian = Credibility "ZERO"
Thank you for clearing that up for me. I completely understand.
taishin...@my-dejanews.com
> Bottom line...what is the derivation of Paulie Zink's "monkey kung fu"?
> Who are his teachers?
>
> Or is this Paulie Zink's Monkey system?
>
> --
> David Williams mailto:d...@wingchun.com
> Planet Wing Chun http://www.wingchun.com/
> Bay Area Wing Chun Association http://www.thesphere.com/SJWC
Paulie Zink, is the 5th generation master of the art of Tai Shing Pek Kwar.
Mastering both the 5 forms of Tai Shing, and all forms of Pek Kwar.
Tai Shing was created by master Kou Sze (English spelling varies). From
master Kou Sze, he taught the entire system of Tai Shing to his student Ken
Tak Hoi, Ken Tak Hoi was already a master of the art of Pek Kwar. From Ken
Tak Hoi, who first lived in the mainland (it says), who later moved to Hong
Kong, taught a variety of students. However, only a few were taught the
entire Tai Shing Pek Kwar system. Two of these include Cho Chi Fung and Chan
Sau Chung (the book doesn't same who else has mastered the entire art)
From the lineage of Cho Chi Fung came Cho Chat Ling. From Cho Chat Ling came
Paulie Zink (the only non-Asian to master the art).
Other lineage:
From Chan Sau Chung came a variety of students who mastered the art. It shows
about ten (on the family tree)
From these ten, came a variety as well (on the family tree)
Because Zink is not Asian doesn't mean he can't master an Asian art. It's
obvious people are upset at this and their only resolution is to call those
people frauds. I think this is sad. The goal is to spread the art to all
interested in learning, keeping it as pure to tradition as possible. This is
why students become instructors and open schools. Just because a person is not
Asian, doesn't mean he doesn't know the art or is part of the lineage.
Here's one of the many website addresses that has this information. Check
www.cfwgroup.com, or www.panthervideo.com.
http://www.martialinfo.com/Styles/monkey.htm
Check out the videos and books for yourself.
David A Ross
I'm not Chinese and I'm an adopted disciple of my sifu and a lineage
holder of my system. Ive been doing Chinese martial arts for 22 years,
probably longer than you've been alive I suspect. That's why I have the
connections and knowledge to know Zink is a FRAUD. I'm not upset that a
non-Asian mastered an art, I'm upset that he is a fraud and so are you.
You can't get over the fact that Zink just wrote a book where he LIES to
cover his false credentials. There is no such person as "Cho Chat Ling".
THe REAL monkey people have never heard of him. Does Zink have any
pictures of this person? NO. Any pictures of this person with Kan Duhk
Hoi? Of course not since he is a made up person.
Here, I am writing down here on REC.MARTIAL ARTS that you are an idiot,
it's in print so it must be true.
I bet you can't even figure that last one out, can you?
David A Ross
does NOT speak English, only Toisanese/Cantonese. Having spent 13 years
with him I speak Cantonese decently, not great mind you but I can speak
and I can understand conversations. I also have a master's in Chinese
history from George Washington University so I studied Mandarin in
undergraduate and graduate school. I passed the language requirement for
the master's so that's fair evidence I can read and write fairly well.
Add to that my Shanghaiese in-laws who I lived with and spoke Mandarin
to everyday for 3 years and I have basic proficiency I guess you could
say.
So if Lily Lau had spoken in Cantonese or Mandarin I would have
understood her just as easily as I did when she made the comments in
ENGLISH. Why did she tell me this in English? I don't know, pretty
stupid if you ask me. My sifu (over 84) knew her for a long time and
she's a "friend" so maybe she felt like she could speak openly. I've
certainly heard similar sentiments made in Chinese when sifu thought no
one listening could understand. "old boys/girls" network stuff, the in
and out crowd etc etc. Hey, YOU may not like it but it exists.
When Sifu Lau's father died, she was a teenager. DOCUMENTED FACT. She
then spent 10 years in Taiwan. DOCUMENTED FACT she even discussed in her
IKF interview a few years back. While there she studied Shuai-Jiao with
Chang Tung Sheng. There are pictures and ALL of his students talk about
it (Jeng Hsin Ping, Daniel Weng, David Lin, etc). So it's fairly easy
and accurate to say she studied Shuai-Jiao.
As for her eagle claw knowledge, well that's a big debate because one
group of Ying Jow Pai people say she came to them to learn the sets. She
denies it, her students deny it. They say that 10 years ago she wasn't
teaching all these sets but was showing up at tournaments filming THEM
doing these sets. YOu know so much, I'm sure you know who these people
are, GO ASK THEM YOURSELF.
Paulie Zink? An easy one. He says he does a system that has a well known
and well established leader. The organization says they've never heard
of Zink or his teacher. What Zink does looks NOTHING like the system in
question. 15 years ago he published a different history and lineage then
changed it. For a lot of people they won't remember this but I do. I've
been around long enough to even remember the FIRST version of the story
Zink told.
Another thing, I learned the three Pek Gwa forms Kan Duhk Hoi taught
from Y.C. Wong. If Zink does the real system he should know the first
three sets, shouldn't he? Maybe he wants us to get together and both do
them. But I suspect not...
Lacey, funny thing; Doo Wai and the Bak Fu Pai people (where he
supposedly learned all this stuff) say he is a complete fraud. That's
pretty bad in and of itelf. The "Mew Hing" stuff? Funny coincidence but
my wife's family ARE the Mew/Miu/Miao family and Miu Ting and the gang
are direct relatives. They don't find any of Mr. Lacey's stuff amusing.
Of course, anyone who's even take a survey level course in Chinese
history should realize that Lacey isn't playing with a full deck.
Brian Gray? Met him in NYC's chinatown one New Year's and a former
associate asked him directly what system and lineage he had. Mr Gray
stated rather directly that he had a "few friends" that taught him "some
things" but that he had no real lineage and didn't do a specific system.
I judged some of his students at a USA WKF tournament a few years ago.
They had good skill but at WUSHU. They were doing standardized 1930's
Nanjing forms. So when he writes about "iron palm system" I don't take
him too seriously.
The truth can be harsh. Obviously some of you don't like to hear them.
If you don't want to believe me, fine, no skin off my nose. I know what
I know and I know why I say the things I do. If you want to train with
the Zinks of the world and believe you are learning real Dai Sing Pek
Gwa Myuhn that's your business I suppose. If you don't think Lilly Lau
is a racist and want to train with her, fine I suppose.
Goma oyan jorlong khaan baidag ve? wrote:
>
> On Fri, 09 Apr 1999 00:52:19 -0400, David A Ross <lkf...@worldnet.att.net>
> wrote:
>
> I wanted to clear the air and say when I said "You" I mean "anyone".
>
> However. I was perusing the kung fu archives for those imfamous lily lau is a
> racist message spoken of earlyer. Would'nt you know.
>
> Posted on the kung fu list by david ross.
>
> I'm sure you'd want this information re-posted for the whole world to peruse
> right?
>
> Till then let me edit and comment on a few things in my own words.
>
> You say your "a rather knowledgable person in the
> arts". I can accept that.
>
> What do you define as traditional lineage?
>
> You mention letters and articles. Which ones are these?
>
> You denouce the existence of secrets. And say the only secret is hard work.
> Thats arguable. But lets move on.
>
> Its hard to get things published? Thats arguable. But lets move on.
>
> You go on with your hall of shame.
>
> 1) Zink. We'll omit him. We have already bee on that road.
>
> 2) Brian Gray: I dont know the guy. They say he's a nice guy. Is he really
> that good?
>
> 3) Lacey: You say "no comment necessary". If you taught written history to
> students that was obviously pretty rediculous, that would somehow reflect on
> your skills as a student/teacher?
>
> Ok, the good one:
>
> 4) Lilly Lau: You say shes a racist and doesnt try and hide it. You said
> that she said to your face "I don't teach real things to blacks and spanish
> people". I assume your white correct?
>
> So what does she say about white people? She disturbed a funeral of your
> Si-Mo, bad taste, yes. But the bias is obvious.
>
> You claim her entire skill is the shuai jiao that she learned from chang deng
> sheng. I'm sure someone has a record of this somewhere?
>
> For someone that knows only one set of eagle claw. She's sure been around.
> Has a lot of tapes out with wing lam along with jini lau. Just seems kind of
> strange.
>
> I'm not aware of her knowing english. So she speaks which chinese
> language(s)? Mandarin, taiwanese, shanghainese? And you learned these
> where?
>
> Please dont say a book.
>
> You ended saying you knew of a few others. Care to speak about them now?
> This message was dated 1996.
Goma oyan jorlong khaan baidag ve?
Goma oyan jorlong khaan baidag ve?
bklin...@aol.com (BKlingborg) wrote:
> >Hanyu Pinyin is the PRC standard I think. Wade Giles is an older method,
> >which I personally think is more cumbersome. I'm not sure if there's any
> >systematic phonetic system for Cantonese.
>
> Pinyin is the PRC method. The Taiwanese use a special phonetic alphabet that
> works very well (the only problem is you have to memorize the alphabet, but
This is called zhu yin right? They also have more classical characters I
read.
> this ensures that you don't end up using English pronunciation for Chinese
> words). Most scholars are still very comfortable using the Wade system, as a
> lot of the classical works written by foreigners on Chinese texts make use of
> it. As for tone marks, Chinese is a heavily contextual language -- even
> without knowing the tones (when reading) you can usually figure out what is
> being said by context.
So if I say "Sup hi" you know what I'm getting at?
BKlingborg
>read.
Yes, also known as zhu yin fu hao. In Taiwan they use classical characters, in
the mainland, simplified.
>
>So if I say "Sup hi" you know what I'm getting at?
I need more context than two words...besides, "sup hai" sounds like Cantonese
rather than Mandarin -- when it comes to Cantonese I can count to ten and
insult somebody's mother, but that's the extent of my fluency.