Period Fencing and Swordplay
Yotsi
Does anyone have any information on pre-industrial European swordplay?
Possibly on schools, groups or salles? I tried modern fencing but found it
SEVERLY lacking.
meanwhile.....
@ustin the twilight child
"My whole life is a dark room. One, big, dark room."
-Lydia, "Beetlejuice"
*Goth Code 3.0 available upon request*
American Academy for Russian Martial Art and Combat Skill
In article <19970320204...@ladder01.news.aol.com> Yotsi wrote:
>Date: 20 Mar 1997 20:47:54 GMT
>From: yo...@aol.com (Yotsi)
>Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
>Subject: Period Fencing and Swordplay
If you are interested in Russian sword fighting and fencing skill, feel free
to contact us.
Scott B. Sonnon, Executive Director
American Academy for Russian Martial Art and Combat Skill
International Russian Combat Skill Federation - American Annex
Amer...@GNN.com
http://members.gnn.com/amersambo/sambo.htm
Robert Broberg
Yotsi (yo...@aol.com) wrote:
: Does anyone have any information on pre-industrial European swordplay?
: Possibly on schools, groups or salles? I tried modern fencing but found it
: SEVERLY lacking.
Scan the "web" under fencing and you will find some info on a new
movement to relearn period techniques. I know DiGrassi's text is
online. Additionally, there is the Society of Creative Anachronism
which attempts a full-contact recreation of sword/shield/other combat.
It also attempts circa 16-17th Century rapier combat, but I doubt our
fencing style is period.
Since you did not explain in what manner you found modern fencing
lacking, I don't know which way to steer you.
Feel free to contact me if you desire more info.
--rb
Eric A Coles
Ramon Martinez and Adam Crown both teach 16th - 17th century swordplay in the
New York area. Both have websites, search under "rapier" You should also
ask on rec.sport.fencing. There are groups doing period swordplay (with
various rules and weapons) all over. Also there are some good online sources
for early fencing manuals. If you prefer the truly medieval version with
knightly weapons - check with your local SCA chapter - they are also the
most likely source for rapier practice.
Good luck.
In article <5h2ef4$e...@harpo.uccs.edu>,
William Docter
> In article <19970320204...@ladder01.news.aol.com> Yotsi wrote:
> >Date: 20 Mar 1997 20:47:54 GMT
> >From: yo...@aol.com (Yotsi)
> >Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
> >Subject: Period Fencing and Swordplay
> >
> >Possibly on schools, groups or salles? I tried modern fencing but found it
> >SEVERLY lacking.
Did you try foil, epee, or sabre? If you did foil, which some
(particularly sabre practitioners) say was developed as a tool for
teaching nobleman's children, you may want to try epee or sabre. Seems
like most of the "Conan" types end up fighting sabre. I have heard that
classical fencing techniques do translate well to rapier, but I have no
practical experience.
The SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) may have some material on
what you are interested in though, as a fencer, I would not call what
they do "sword fighting". I would call it play acting typical of movies
shown on MST3K, but to each his own.
--
William Docter
Chemical Process Modeling and Control Research Center
Lehigh University Department of Chemical Engineering
http://www.lehigh.edu/wad2/public/www-data/wad2.html
Marco S Subias
In article <333849...@lehigh.edu>,
William Docter <wa...@lehigh.edu> wrote:
I did about two years of fencing, and a fair amount of SCA heavy weapons training, and a fair
amount of research on the weights and lengths of late medieval and Renaissance swords and came
to the conlusion that based on the relative dimensions of the weapons and my own experience SCA
heavy weapons techniques probably translate much better to real historical weapons use than
sports fencing does, the one likely exception being that the epee is not much different from the
smallsword. Smallswords were real weapons, though largely used by inbred nobles, and were not
serious weapons of war.
Fencing sabres are much lighter that sabres used in war, and this would make their speed,
especially for parrying, much different. Their balance would no doubt differ greatly, with a
real cavalry sabre being much more point heavy than the thin flexible steel whips used on foot
in modern sport fencing. Real historical rapiers were also much heavier and point heavy than
epees or fencing sabres.
Modern sport fencing also is incredibly linear, and uses concepts such as "right of way" that
are just plain silly as applied to using real weapons of any sort. Real rapier fencing was done
"in the round," without the artificial "strip" that modern fencers fight on.
It is true that both sport fencing and SCA heavy weapons limit the targets that can be hit.
This is a limitiation in both cases, but except for the epee, sport fencing limits the targets
much more. This extreme limit of targets of course strongly influences a fencer's tactics and
techniques, and therefore makes his swordplay less realistic (relatively -- arguably neither is
what was done when people actually fought wars with swords).
SCA "weapons" and armor are very close to real arms in weight and balance. The fighting area is
not limited to a thin strip, and most of the body is a legitimate target.
I have had experience with both, and done research on the historical weapons, and find that
sports fencing probably bears less relation to the use of real weapons (epee probably excepted)
than SCA heavy weapons fighting does.
Marco
Hicksc
Yotsi (yo...@aol.com) wrote:
: Does anyone have any information on pre-industrial European swordplay?
: Possibly on schools, groups or salles? I tried modern fencing but found
it
: SEVERLY lacking.
There si a lot of activity going on this subject area. As far as any
salles, there are some that do small sword or even rapier--Adam Crown is
one. Depends on where you are, he's in Ithaca NY.
As to even earlier stuff there is a new ook, published in England called
"English Martial Arts" which covers the topic ca 1600.
For other information, try the Hammerterz Forum, Chris Amberger hangs out
in the fencing group. Also, Matt Galas' monography on simialrities of the
German kunst des fechten (fighting arts) to Japanese Martial Arts should
be out some year from JAMA.
There's more, but this is enough.
ST
nor....@netcom.ca
>"Did you try foil, epee, or sabre? If you did foil, which some
>(particularly sabre practitioners) say was developed as a tool for
>teaching nobleman's children, you may want to try epee or sabre. Seems
>like most of the "Conan" types end up fighting sabre. I have heard that
>classical fencing techniques do translate well to rapier, but I have no
>practical experience.
I Agree. I prefer epee, but sabre is a fine weopon and you can learn a
lot training in either. Foil was developed as a trainer for epee, and
became a sport in itself. I found it too full of rules and priorities,
although some people like it, comparing it to a chess game.